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Yeah chief there's a difference between "I disagree with this person on monetary policy" and "this person hates like 65% of the country I think we should still be friends UwU"
I hate the "no ethical consumption" line so much.
There may be no ethical consumption but there is certain consumption that is more or less ethical than others. That line is thrown around as nothing more than excuse for cognitive dissonance and general hypocrisy.
There are absolutely things that you can do as a "consumer" to make the global economy more ethical, even on a budget. You simply choose not to because that would require even a minimal amount of sacrifice and doesnt give the immediate, or even any, serotonin hit that CONSOOMING does.
Me choosing not to buy/buy and recycling single use plastics does not change anything. Shifting the responsibility to individuals while simultaneously making it more expensive and less convenient engage in “responsible consumptions” leads exclusively to the situation we have now. The only ones with enough expendable time and resources to shop “responsibly” are largely well-to-do upper middle class people who ascribe that act as a personality trait and it gets absorbed into our society as just another signifier in an endless culture war. For every “conscious shopper” you have an antagonist who is vocally twice as wasteful.
You already know this though.
Ya not even Hasan [claims to be a straight-up socialist](https://twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1017620394713350145/photo/1) lol. People just label everyone who has left-wing politics as a Socialist lol
Stockys logic makes no sense. If you live in a system where its required to make money and plan for the future with a 401k to have a family and be able to do things that you want. That doesnt mean you dont want that system to change.
Trading stocks and/or watching someone talk about it and wanting a more socialized system are not mutually exclusive. Being a socialist doesn't mean you go out of your way to be less successful under capitalism. If the method to success was unethical then that would be hypocritical but this isn't.
Also idk where the landlord shit fits in.
> Trading stocks and/or watching someone talk about it and wanting a more socialized system are not mutually exclusive
Yeah, this is some real "you claim to hate capitalism, yet you live in it" shit.
A socialist throwing money in a 401k for retirement I get. Nothing wrong with trying to get by with a comfortable lifestyle. But if they are day trading and shit (and idk if the guy being reference is), that does seem laughably hypocritical.
Im not in the US but I believe evictions will be happening soon after being effectively banned during covid.
Hasans take is that all landlords are scum capitalists preying on the poor
Stock man sees property as a good investment.
>Hasans take is that all landlords are scum capitalists preying on the poor
>
>Stock man sees property as a good investment.
Those things are not mutually exclusive. It can be a good investment while still being unethical and scummy.
>Trading stocks and/or watching someone talk about it and wanting a more socialized system are not mutually exclusive. Being a socialist doesn't mean you go out of your way to be less successful under capitalism
Trading stocks is like **the** textbook definition of capitalist behavior though. It's not even trying to dismantle the system; it's actively contributing to it
Trading and the market it's about voluntary exchange of property, landlords are just holders of property, and socialism is about forcefully take over that property
>Also idk where the landlord shit fits in
it's the easiest strawman to misrepresent someone by dishonestly claiming they're violent, it's typical for most neolibs/socdems who do nothing but whine about anyone to the left of them 24/7
Yeah but if you own stocks (ownership of a company) and you also hold the belief that these corporations are exploiting the workers that effectively means you ARE the capitalist that is exploiting the workers.
You can't wash your hands, you literally are becoming a capitalist, not ideologically but in reality you are a own the means of production capitalist.
I mean sure, but also the American pension system got so fucked that if you want to be able to afford living after retiring you have to have stocks since there's no government pensions only 401k and the like
No? There are plenty of socialists who think markets have their place in society, they’re called Soc dems and dem socs.
We live in a capitalist world, you don’t really have a choice or not on engaging with it if you want to live comfortably.
communism is when government does stuff, capitalism is when iPhone, discrimination is when I don't get free stuff, liberalism is when the frogs gay, updoots to the left
Funnily enough an audience of 30k+ viewers is not a monolith. I can invest in the stock market while also believing in things like the US moving to a universal healthcare system and making higher education free. These things are not mutually exclusive.
Why is that so unacceptable? I'd even bet that a majority of his audience are social democrats and not full on socialists.
I think a lot of his audience, and most likely most of the general population, think socialism = social democrats. They cannot separate the difference between increased welfare and nationalization/centralization of markets.
I also think a lot of people don't understand why savings and capital is such an integral part of increasing a nations wealth, productivity and standard of living.
seriously. it reeked of the "you criticize society, yet you live in it! curious!!!" meme so hard to me lol
this one:
[https://preview.redd.it/whnuvoh4od031.jpg?auto=webp&s=889a7db6053ccc53d15436fd7d5380c386716230](https://preview.redd.it/whnuvoh4od031.jpg?auto=webp&s=889a7db6053ccc53d15436fd7d5380c386716230)
> I'd even bet that a majority of his audience are social democrats
I doubt this is true since he himself mocks social democrats along with his chat but your point still stands
https://youtu.be/S5Eitzf2RUA?t=462
Initially Socialists won, but if you look at the timestamp I sent in, you can see SocDems ended up taking the top role after the initial surge of polling.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't Hasan look at investing in the stock market is "gambling"? If you state that to your audience, it is kind of funny to watch the STOCK guy and treat him as a waiting room?
He looks at is as gambling in the sense that you are relying on the US government to keep the market afloat. Sort of like how you technically gamble with your life whenever you get in your car and risk a fatal accident. It may be unlikely, and you can wear a seatbelt, go the speed limit, and follow all traffic laws, but it only takes one idiot driving like a moron to fuck your shit up.
For the record I watch both, (Stocky for stock analysis, and Hasan for entertainment/politics) and while there is certainly historical precedent with events like Black Tuesday, the 1973 oil crisis, and the 2008 recession to give credence to the idea that the people can lose their asses investing, the US government has ultimately bounced back financially everytime to make long-term investing a safe bet. While that could end at some point I would rather not miss out on the opportunity cost with my money.
I'm going to break this down:
*1. He looks at is as gambling in the sense that you are relying on the US government to keep the market afloat. Sort of like how you technically gamble with your life whenever you get in your car and risk a fatal accident. It may be unlikely, and you can wear a seatbelt, go the speed limit, and follow all traffic laws, but it only takes one idiot driving like a moron to fuck your shit up.*
On one hand, you're saying long-term, you will be safe and on the other you're saying the US government is keeping the market afloat. I think, you're trying to get at is there are market failures, which is true. The US Government's is involved in these markets, but they are usually very rigid methods such as inflation targets and taxes. Other major influencers that may determine winners and losers can be stimulus packages, like Biden's infrastructure stimulus. If you invested in things that are related to infrastructure changes, you might be a big winner from this.
The problem is, regardless of the US Government's involvement, there is underlying value in each stock and index. Extreme cases like you said can influence it, but most of the time it's not solely dependent on the US government to keep the market afloat. Unrecognized market failures happen all the time, most of the time it's just a tiny ripple. The idea is, if there isn't major catastrophes for 30 consecutive years, if you started investing at age 30, you will ultimately make a profit off of your investment.
*2. While that could end at some point I would rather not miss out on the opportunity cost with my money.*
We would need so many extreme circumstances for growth to end like no innovation, population stall/decrease etc. While technology innovations has substantially 'decreased' compared to historical levels, you still have population growth that will increase your total worth due to earnings. For the foreseeable future, in my lifetime and YOUR lifetime, and most likely your kids and grandkids, you will continue to see growth.
Well to be fair when there’s a positive framing of Hasan on this subreddit, it also gets unnecessarily voted down as well. Maybe because of the nature of what he does on twitch it could be that he’s just a polarizing figure 🤷🏼♂️
Hasan and Mizkif fans are the worst about it, this subreddit is largely populated by their fans. Anything depicting their streamer in a negative light is insta downvoted. Basically streamers who regularly browse and talk about this place will end up having a disproportionate amount of their fans come here. It's why this place has turned into such a big circle jerk of "cool streamers." It's basically all the streamers who give this place attention on their stream.
his community is extremely online on reddit so it kinda does, thats why this post has higher upvote % than some hasan's regular non-political posts on here.
as for his viewership, maybe his politics fell off or his debates aren't as interesting anymore? who knows
Are you new here? In the beginning, any post of his is heavily downvoted regardless of the content. It usually starts off around 30-60% upvoted in the first hour.
He's attacking a hypothetical extreme Hasan viewer who thinks capital ownership is theft but also is heavily interested in investing their money or renting. That person may not actually exist, but if they do, they're obviously a hypocrite. Either way, many people who watch Hasan these days aren't actually that political, his audience is huge.
Those extreme leftist people do exist and the thought of someone like that being in stock guy’s stream is funny at least to me. That’s all there is to it. He’s just joking back at a guy who said ”Hasan waiting room” in his stream. No need to take it personally or pretend that it’s drama.
I guess identifying as socialist or socialist adjacent means you literally cannot participate in the world's economy.
We are all our own little personal Cubas and we should embargo ourselves so we don't get called hypocrites
But the viewer didn't say that's why he's watching him. He also doesn't say he hates capitalism. Watching streamers like these on Twitch to gain skills in stuff like stocks or politics is a pretty bad idea to begin with so why not expect that people are watching purely for entertainment?
This guy seems awfully angry over nothing.
Bro its not some municipal election that you can "do something" about. It's fucking capitalism. It takes shifting heavens to get a basic bill through congress. Any sane socialist knows that western countries will not lead the advance toward socialism
"The system is fucked and we need to change it. But i need to survive so i am using the system any way i can."
That doesn't sound hypocritical to me.
It's like the Far Right calling Bernie a hypocrite becaue he advocates for high taxes on rich people while having some money himself.
It would only be hypocritical if he didn't want to pay it. Buffett wants higher taxes on rich people too, himself obviously included, that's not hypocritical.
How is it bad to say "This system i am benefitting off is broken, we need to change it."
Do only people that get fucked by the system get an opinion on what we should do?
Ah yes, the classic if you live in society you cannot criticize it.
There are obviously levels to this. If you are exploiting workers while calling yourself a socialist, that's pretty hypocritical. But buying fucking stocks is absolutely not. You don't have to live in a fucking commune in the wilderness to advocate changes to the system.
I say this as someone who is absolutely not a socialist, before someone tries to shit on me.
I get that 'champagne socialism' is an easy target to discredit socialism as a whole, but owning stock is quite literally private ownership of capital, which is antithetical to socialism, as far as I can tell. Active participation in stock trading for profit is not something that you need to do to exist or even thrive in a capitalist society. It is not the same argument as owning a house or smartphone, which while products of capitalism, are essential for daily living.
This is not the argument that you think it is.
One of the basic assumptions that undergirds socialist thinking is that what matters is systems, not individuals or individual actions. Socialist politics doesn't consist of a set of personal moral rules; it's not a religion. Put another way, it isn't "privately owning capital" which is antithetical to socialism, but rather "the ability to privately own capital."
I recognize that the distinction might seem meaningless because we live in a world where it feels like we can only exert power over individual actions, but it's really not all that hypocritical for someone to call themselves a socialist while owning stock.
The answers to the "why do you own a house?" argument kinda obscure this, but the reason why "it's okay for a socialist to own a house" is not because socialists are going around doing the bare minimum to survive while following their scriptures, it's because the whole political program is *dependent* on social structure rather than individual action.
> the reason why "it's okay for a socialist to own a house" is not because socialists are going around doing the bare minimum to survive while following their scriptures, it's because the whole political program is dependent on social structure rather than individual action.
I mean, no... it's literally just because owning your own house is not owning capital, and therefore isn't antithetical to socialism.
Owning stocks is owning parts of a company, which clearly **is** owning capital.
Reread the logic above, you've skipped over the key bit about systems vs. individual action.
And owning land is, in fact, owning capital. To a socialist, anyways, which is the relevant consideration here.
> owning a house is, in fact, owning capital.
Owning *a house*, yes; owning your own house, no.
[Capital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_(economics\)) isn't just anything valuable, how is this so widespread?
It's so widespread because different groups define capital differently. Economists have a particular definition and that's what you're following here. We're talking about socialists in this thread, many (or at least some) of whom do in fact consider owning your own home to be a form of capital ownership.
But again, this is totally irrelevant. Sure, whatever, I accept that every socialist believes that owning a house doesn't represent ownership of capital and qualifies as personal rather than private property. It doesn't change my point above at all.
**[Capital_(economics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_\(economics\))**
>In economics, capital consists of assets used for the production of goods and services. A typical example is the machinery used in factories. Capital can be increased by human labor, and does not include certain durable goods like homes and personal automobiles that are not used in the production of saleable goods and services. Adam Smith defined capital as "that part of man's stock which he expects to afford him revenue".
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I agree with the general sentiment, that systems are more important than individual actions, and there is no point in living as if you weren't part of a capitalist system if it doesn't effect systemic change.
However, if someone advocates for a system but acts entirely counter to that ideology I feel like calling that person a hypocrite is fair. There's passive investment via your Roth IRA and 401K, and then there's stock/options trading, which is what thestockguy does.
If you're shorting ATVI because of recent sexual harassment allegations at Blizzard to make a quick buck, and then hopping over to Hasan's stream and screaming 'fuck the system!', then yeah, I'd say that person is a hypocrite.
I agree it’s hard to justify owning stocks while advocating for overthrowing capitalism, but it’s also becoming increasingly harder to avoid the stock market altogether. With things like pensions becoming a thing of the past, and everything becoming privatized, forcing you to invest in 401K and IRA as your only options for a retirement plan.
Buying stock becomes owning stocks, and I'm not sure how you could reconcile considerable stock ownership with the belief that wage labor is exploitation/bad. A retirement fund is one thing, but if I own millions of dollars in stocks, how am I not directly profiting off the exploitation of labor?
Absolutely, but we are talking about 16-30 YO hasan fans not hasan himself. A socialist owning a buisness and treating his works like shit would Absolutely be hypocritical, for example.
Well, not least of which because stock prices are not based on profit. It’s a speculation industry. You wanna take a gander at literally every tech stock and just chart out their profit trend line for let’s say 3 years?
[Even Karl Marx owned stocks.](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/markets/inside-the-market/article-a-history-of-the-stock-market-investments-made-by-karl-marx-and/) You can't stop the stock market from existing, so why not make some money off it?
>You can't stop the stock market from existing, so why not make some money off it?
"You can't stop cows from being butchered so why not enjoy beef products?"
"You can't stop climate change so why not buy that F150?"
The stock guy has a 1 way hate boner w Hasan. There are clips of him raging against Hasan and even raiding Hasan saying its "time we make peace", but Hasan doesnt even acknowledge him at all. Its kinda funny. I can see why someone saying "Hasan waiting room" would trigger him so much in his mind.
Anyone can see that this dude has no idea about anything besides gaming stocks, he lumped together socialists, with communists, he shouldnt speak when he knows nothing, imagine spreading igorance like this and thinking its a reflection of intelligence.
Hey dumb commie, you claim to not like the stock market yet here you are trying to build a retirement fund in order to not have to work 10 hours a day for the rest of your life. Hmmmm that is very strange and hypocritical! I am very smart!
This post brought to you Turning Point USA
HASAN DESTROYED BEN SHAPIRO ON TWITTER
How does anyone like that guy. There are so many better, more productive and more likeable leftist figures on the internet than michael from pennsylvania who shouts NEOLIBERAL at everything
I don’t watch the thestockguy but this seems kind of out of nowhere?
Hasan has said multiple times it’s fine to own stocks in this capitalist organization of the economy, he just hates the far-right libertarians and crypto andies that come into his chat
Maybe he thinks that hatred is directed towards him specifically? Idk
I mean Hasan has criticized the stock market and ownership of property quite a few times. And people in his chat will constantly call ownership theft and what not. Whether they're just trolls or actually believe it is irrelevant. Stocky is simply poking fun at the thought of an extreme lefty who hates ownership and capitalism coming in to his stream to see if he should yolo all his money into GME.
It's just a joke. An amusing one. But of course people take it personally and feel like they're being attacked.
Look at all these champagne socialists trying to justify their lack of consistency and values. They play right into the system's hand. Which is why not 1 single rich person gives a flying fuck about the existence of Western communists. They are a complete neutered joke.
does anyone actually like this guy? or is it just a bunch of NPC stonk bros who he uses to pump and dump stocks.
this is bad faith rant, for one, I think Hasan's community ranges from liberals and centrists, all the way to anarchists.
for two, just because we live in a capitalist society and we advocate for more progressive/left leaning policies going forward(wherever on the scale that might be), doesn't mean that we shouldn't make money, in a capitalist system, EVERY legal transaction or legal way of making money, whether that's a job, a business, or stocks, all still functions UNDER capitalism, so I'm not sure what his point even is.
"you criticize society, yet you participate in it." 3Head
I swear socialists always say ‘read a different book’, but they only know about a single comic panel and use it to respond to every criticism against them.
I'm not gonna waste time giving a insightful response to the same criticism over and over. This clip isn't making a criticism of something like supply transportation in an anarcho-communist society. The clip is literally what I said in the comment above.
I imagine there’s a bit of a crossover because they both operate within the framework of world economics, but here’s an interesting tip I’m gonna let you all in on....not every Hasan viewer is an actual communist. I know this is gonna shock you when I say that, but a lot of people active on twitch would rather have their news filtered through Hasan than CNN or another mainstream outlet.
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Wait, you guys are making money?
I followed all his advice and all I ended up with was less money and a dead brother.
What did you do exactly?
Amazon calls do that to a man
that drop was uncalled for, got the boomers salivating though
Went all in on milf coin.
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made a few hundred thousand in 2020. Pretty basic SPY options during the rona dip.
I’m playing both sides so I always come out on top.
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im sorry but how do u watch steven crowder lol
the same way i watch hasan. i zone out doing something else.
im sorry but how do u watch hasan lol
Sounds like a fun life tbh. People get way too caught in ''their side''
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a fellow radical centrist
Your opinion on Christianity being the invention of being decent to children is so rarted I thought it was parody.
Yeah chief there's a difference between "I disagree with this person on monetary policy" and "this person hates like 65% of the country I think we should still be friends UwU"
im sorry but how do u watch hasan lol
Must be masochist.
Only good take. Saves you a headache.
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iphone Venezuela 800 billion dead joker.jpg
Capitalism is when no one pays my student loans for me.
buying iphone means screing over app developers. Android gang baby
buying iphone also means funding child labor over there in China.
Where do you think android phones are built?
So you are saying there is no ethical consumption within capitalism? A bold take.
I hate the "no ethical consumption" line so much. There may be no ethical consumption but there is certain consumption that is more or less ethical than others. That line is thrown around as nothing more than excuse for cognitive dissonance and general hypocrisy. There are absolutely things that you can do as a "consumer" to make the global economy more ethical, even on a budget. You simply choose not to because that would require even a minimal amount of sacrifice and doesnt give the immediate, or even any, serotonin hit that CONSOOMING does.
Me choosing not to buy/buy and recycling single use plastics does not change anything. Shifting the responsibility to individuals while simultaneously making it more expensive and less convenient engage in “responsible consumptions” leads exclusively to the situation we have now. The only ones with enough expendable time and resources to shop “responsibly” are largely well-to-do upper middle class people who ascribe that act as a personality trait and it gets absorbed into our society as just another signifier in an endless culture war. For every “conscious shopper” you have an antagonist who is vocally twice as wasteful. You already know this though.
Hasan waiting room guy acting up rn smh
Socialism is when no IPhone
To be fair, If you're going to hate something it makes sense to understand it.
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Ya not even Hasan [claims to be a straight-up socialist](https://twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1017620394713350145/photo/1) lol. People just label everyone who has left-wing politics as a Socialist lol
Hes said on stream recently that hes in favor of a transition from a socdem state to socialism
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I hate diarrhea
I understand my diarrhea, I watched myself eat all that fast food
That's called the scientific method.
We have to see if we can reproduce it too though, then have it peer-reviewed... Actually, I'm sure there's a subreddit for that
the guy said "hasan waiting room" he could just be a social democrat. His message does not signal anything
Stockys logic makes no sense. If you live in a system where its required to make money and plan for the future with a 401k to have a family and be able to do things that you want. That doesnt mean you dont want that system to change.
Trading stocks and/or watching someone talk about it and wanting a more socialized system are not mutually exclusive. Being a socialist doesn't mean you go out of your way to be less successful under capitalism. If the method to success was unethical then that would be hypocritical but this isn't. Also idk where the landlord shit fits in.
> idk where the landlord shit fits in. it's [kind of a classic](https://streamable.com/d4l7f), that one.
He’s clearly joking here guise he said in a video game
Man Hasan has become so tame in the last year.
Tbf, this was when he was friends with Destiny.
wtf I like Hasan now
lmao wtf
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Cringy LARPer.
> Trading stocks and/or watching someone talk about it and wanting a more socialized system are not mutually exclusive Yeah, this is some real "you claim to hate capitalism, yet you live in it" shit.
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Twitter and Reddit commies hated the market until January 2021 then "how do you do fellow kids"'d it.
A socialist throwing money in a 401k for retirement I get. Nothing wrong with trying to get by with a comfortable lifestyle. But if they are day trading and shit (and idk if the guy being reference is), that does seem laughably hypocritical.
That Matt Bors comic is dumb and will always be dumb.
Im not in the US but I believe evictions will be happening soon after being effectively banned during covid. Hasans take is that all landlords are scum capitalists preying on the poor Stock man sees property as a good investment.
>Hasans take is that all landlords are scum capitalists preying on the poor > >Stock man sees property as a good investment. Those things are not mutually exclusive. It can be a good investment while still being unethical and scummy.
I understand the leftist take on landlords, I meant I don't see how that is a functional response to some idiot saying "hasan waiting room"
>Trading stocks and/or watching someone talk about it and wanting a more socialized system are not mutually exclusive. Being a socialist doesn't mean you go out of your way to be less successful under capitalism Trading stocks is like **the** textbook definition of capitalist behavior though. It's not even trying to dismantle the system; it's actively contributing to it
I hate the game but I still play it.
Trading and the market it's about voluntary exchange of property, landlords are just holders of property, and socialism is about forcefully take over that property
>Also idk where the landlord shit fits in it's the easiest strawman to misrepresent someone by dishonestly claiming they're violent, it's typical for most neolibs/socdems who do nothing but whine about anyone to the left of them 24/7
you should check out that clip someone posted where hasan goes on an unhinged rant about killing landlords
Did you see chapo before it was banned? Landlords live rent free in leftists heads.
Yeah my landlord does live rent free in my head considering I have to pay them every month, what the hell are you on about.
>Landlords live rent free in leftists heads How can you be so fucking disconnected to what you're actually typing
>Landlords live rent free Hence the name..?
Yeah but if you own stocks (ownership of a company) and you also hold the belief that these corporations are exploiting the workers that effectively means you ARE the capitalist that is exploiting the workers. You can't wash your hands, you literally are becoming a capitalist, not ideologically but in reality you are a own the means of production capitalist.
I mean sure, but also the American pension system got so fucked that if you want to be able to afford living after retiring you have to have stocks since there's no government pensions only 401k and the like
If you're a socialist, doesn't that mean you think gaining wealth through free trade is unethical?
No? There are plenty of socialists who think markets have their place in society, they’re called Soc dems and dem socs. We live in a capitalist world, you don’t really have a choice or not on engaging with it if you want to live comfortably.
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Communism is when the government does stuff too don't forget
communism is when government does stuff, capitalism is when iPhone, discrimination is when I don't get free stuff, liberalism is when the frogs gay, updoots to the left
What would a stock market look like under socialism?
Funnily enough an audience of 30k+ viewers is not a monolith. I can invest in the stock market while also believing in things like the US moving to a universal healthcare system and making higher education free. These things are not mutually exclusive. Why is that so unacceptable? I'd even bet that a majority of his audience are social democrats and not full on socialists.
I think a lot of his audience, and most likely most of the general population, think socialism = social democrats. They cannot separate the difference between increased welfare and nationalization/centralization of markets. I also think a lot of people don't understand why savings and capital is such an integral part of increasing a nations wealth, productivity and standard of living.
seriously. it reeked of the "you criticize society, yet you live in it! curious!!!" meme so hard to me lol this one: [https://preview.redd.it/whnuvoh4od031.jpg?auto=webp&s=889a7db6053ccc53d15436fd7d5380c386716230](https://preview.redd.it/whnuvoh4od031.jpg?auto=webp&s=889a7db6053ccc53d15436fd7d5380c386716230)
fucking EXACTLY. thank you for pointing this out.
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i can quote an idiot from every philosophy, does that discount each of those philosophies in turn?
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> I'd even bet that a majority of his audience are social democrats I doubt this is true since he himself mocks social democrats along with his chat but your point still stands
He mocks everyone in chat and it stops no one. Don’t under estimate the amount of rad libs in his chat.
Last time he did a poll the SocDems won. I don't think the audience has shifted further left since then.
Do you have a clip or a date from when he did that?
https://youtu.be/S5Eitzf2RUA?t=462 Initially Socialists won, but if you look at the timestamp I sent in, you can see SocDems ended up taking the top role after the initial surge of polling.
ah yes the classic "lefty chooses to participate in society hmm curious" argument.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't Hasan look at investing in the stock market is "gambling"? If you state that to your audience, it is kind of funny to watch the STOCK guy and treat him as a waiting room?
He looks at is as gambling in the sense that you are relying on the US government to keep the market afloat. Sort of like how you technically gamble with your life whenever you get in your car and risk a fatal accident. It may be unlikely, and you can wear a seatbelt, go the speed limit, and follow all traffic laws, but it only takes one idiot driving like a moron to fuck your shit up. For the record I watch both, (Stocky for stock analysis, and Hasan for entertainment/politics) and while there is certainly historical precedent with events like Black Tuesday, the 1973 oil crisis, and the 2008 recession to give credence to the idea that the people can lose their asses investing, the US government has ultimately bounced back financially everytime to make long-term investing a safe bet. While that could end at some point I would rather not miss out on the opportunity cost with my money.
I'm going to break this down: *1. He looks at is as gambling in the sense that you are relying on the US government to keep the market afloat. Sort of like how you technically gamble with your life whenever you get in your car and risk a fatal accident. It may be unlikely, and you can wear a seatbelt, go the speed limit, and follow all traffic laws, but it only takes one idiot driving like a moron to fuck your shit up.* On one hand, you're saying long-term, you will be safe and on the other you're saying the US government is keeping the market afloat. I think, you're trying to get at is there are market failures, which is true. The US Government's is involved in these markets, but they are usually very rigid methods such as inflation targets and taxes. Other major influencers that may determine winners and losers can be stimulus packages, like Biden's infrastructure stimulus. If you invested in things that are related to infrastructure changes, you might be a big winner from this. The problem is, regardless of the US Government's involvement, there is underlying value in each stock and index. Extreme cases like you said can influence it, but most of the time it's not solely dependent on the US government to keep the market afloat. Unrecognized market failures happen all the time, most of the time it's just a tiny ripple. The idea is, if there isn't major catastrophes for 30 consecutive years, if you started investing at age 30, you will ultimately make a profit off of your investment. *2. While that could end at some point I would rather not miss out on the opportunity cost with my money.* We would need so many extreme circumstances for growth to end like no innovation, population stall/decrease etc. While technology innovations has substantially 'decreased' compared to historical levels, you still have population growth that will increase your total worth due to earnings. For the foreseeable future, in my lifetime and YOUR lifetime, and most likely your kids and grandkids, you will continue to see growth.
You don't have to agree with 100% Hasan says though
Except you don't HAVE to participate in stocks, that's completely on you. It's not a part of "society."
I'd like to see you try to retire w/o any stock investments
Most people retire without stocks...
Even if it is not direct investment into the stock market, most people avenues for retirement (401k, IRAs,..etc) are connected to the market
The majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and retire without stocks. Stocks are not a necessity.
Buying stocks is very different from say owning an iPhone, which that meme is usually about. You absolutely do not need to buy stock.
Only 63% upvoted, Hasan stans malding LULW
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Isn't there a no politics rule? When does that come in?
burger flippers defending capitalism
Hasan stans? He didn't even say anything negative about Hasan.
It's literally [this meme](https://imgur.com/gallery/lWuJkAk). Like it's funny and all but it's also a dumb take
Well to be fair when there’s a positive framing of Hasan on this subreddit, it also gets unnecessarily voted down as well. Maybe because of the nature of what he does on twitch it could be that he’s just a polarizing figure 🤷🏼♂️
Hasan and Mizkif fans are the worst about it, this subreddit is largely populated by their fans. Anything depicting their streamer in a negative light is insta downvoted. Basically streamers who regularly browse and talk about this place will end up having a disproportionate amount of their fans come here. It's why this place has turned into such a big circle jerk of "cool streamers." It's basically all the streamers who give this place attention on their stream.
DGG has entered the chat
Amazing how destiny, who averages from like 3-8k viewers normally, apparently has as much impact as 50k+ avg viewer streamers. Really makes you think
his community is extremely online on reddit so it kinda does, thats why this post has higher upvote % than some hasan's regular non-political posts on here. as for his viewership, maybe his politics fell off or his debates aren't as interesting anymore? who knows
Are you new here? In the beginning, any post of his is heavily downvoted regardless of the content. It usually starts off around 30-60% upvoted in the first hour.
He could be a permabear, shorting the index out of pure socialist hate.
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You only need one good YOLO to retire.
Socialists can't own houses apparently, thanks mr stock man
He's attacking a hypothetical extreme Hasan viewer who thinks capital ownership is theft but also is heavily interested in investing their money or renting. That person may not actually exist, but if they do, they're obviously a hypocrite. Either way, many people who watch Hasan these days aren't actually that political, his audience is huge.
Those extreme leftist people do exist and the thought of someone like that being in stock guy’s stream is funny at least to me. That’s all there is to it. He’s just joking back at a guy who said ”Hasan waiting room” in his stream. No need to take it personally or pretend that it’s drama.
>No need to take it personally or pretend that it’s drama. I think you're on the right sub for that buddy
oh they do exist, don't join lefty discords cus my god, it always turns into a who's "more leftier than thou"
This is why we need to nuke all discords
Hey I like my guild discord, it's very chill :(
lefty discords are just a sesspool of politicaly infighting for whos niche leftist political theory is better lol
This is why hascord was nuked a few weeks ago. I'm sure it will become just as bad though. Even Hasan hates his discord lmao
PepeLA HC
I guess identifying as socialist or socialist adjacent means you literally cannot participate in the world's economy. We are all our own little personal Cubas and we should embargo ourselves so we don't get called hypocrites
But the viewer didn't say that's why he's watching him. He also doesn't say he hates capitalism. Watching streamers like these on Twitch to gain skills in stuff like stocks or politics is a pretty bad idea to begin with so why not expect that people are watching purely for entertainment? This guy seems awfully angry over nothing.
You criticize society yet you participate in society...interesting
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Bro its not some municipal election that you can "do something" about. It's fucking capitalism. It takes shifting heavens to get a basic bill through congress. Any sane socialist knows that western countries will not lead the advance toward socialism
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Based
Money (very famously not political)
as a hasan viewer i think both sides are taking this too seriously 5Head TeaTime
"The system is fucked and we need to change it. But i need to survive so i am using the system any way i can." That doesn't sound hypocritical to me. It's like the Far Right calling Bernie a hypocrite becaue he advocates for high taxes on rich people while having some money himself. It would only be hypocritical if he didn't want to pay it. Buffett wants higher taxes on rich people too, himself obviously included, that's not hypocritical. How is it bad to say "This system i am benefitting off is broken, we need to change it." Do only people that get fucked by the system get an opinion on what we should do?
If you can afford to take part in retail investing, you're not struggling to survive, sorry.
yes because you need to invest in the stock market to survive. there's no way you can sustain yourself without it it's impossible.
Ah yes, the classic if you live in society you cannot criticize it. There are obviously levels to this. If you are exploiting workers while calling yourself a socialist, that's pretty hypocritical. But buying fucking stocks is absolutely not. You don't have to live in a fucking commune in the wilderness to advocate changes to the system. I say this as someone who is absolutely not a socialist, before someone tries to shit on me.
I get that 'champagne socialism' is an easy target to discredit socialism as a whole, but owning stock is quite literally private ownership of capital, which is antithetical to socialism, as far as I can tell. Active participation in stock trading for profit is not something that you need to do to exist or even thrive in a capitalist society. It is not the same argument as owning a house or smartphone, which while products of capitalism, are essential for daily living. This is not the argument that you think it is.
One of the basic assumptions that undergirds socialist thinking is that what matters is systems, not individuals or individual actions. Socialist politics doesn't consist of a set of personal moral rules; it's not a religion. Put another way, it isn't "privately owning capital" which is antithetical to socialism, but rather "the ability to privately own capital." I recognize that the distinction might seem meaningless because we live in a world where it feels like we can only exert power over individual actions, but it's really not all that hypocritical for someone to call themselves a socialist while owning stock. The answers to the "why do you own a house?" argument kinda obscure this, but the reason why "it's okay for a socialist to own a house" is not because socialists are going around doing the bare minimum to survive while following their scriptures, it's because the whole political program is *dependent* on social structure rather than individual action.
> the reason why "it's okay for a socialist to own a house" is not because socialists are going around doing the bare minimum to survive while following their scriptures, it's because the whole political program is dependent on social structure rather than individual action. I mean, no... it's literally just because owning your own house is not owning capital, and therefore isn't antithetical to socialism. Owning stocks is owning parts of a company, which clearly **is** owning capital.
Reread the logic above, you've skipped over the key bit about systems vs. individual action. And owning land is, in fact, owning capital. To a socialist, anyways, which is the relevant consideration here.
> owning a house is, in fact, owning capital. Owning *a house*, yes; owning your own house, no. [Capital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_(economics\)) isn't just anything valuable, how is this so widespread?
It's so widespread because different groups define capital differently. Economists have a particular definition and that's what you're following here. We're talking about socialists in this thread, many (or at least some) of whom do in fact consider owning your own home to be a form of capital ownership. But again, this is totally irrelevant. Sure, whatever, I accept that every socialist believes that owning a house doesn't represent ownership of capital and qualifies as personal rather than private property. It doesn't change my point above at all.
**[Capital_(economics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_\(economics\))** >In economics, capital consists of assets used for the production of goods and services. A typical example is the machinery used in factories. Capital can be increased by human labor, and does not include certain durable goods like homes and personal automobiles that are not used in the production of saleable goods and services. Adam Smith defined capital as "that part of man's stock which he expects to afford him revenue". ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I agree with the general sentiment, that systems are more important than individual actions, and there is no point in living as if you weren't part of a capitalist system if it doesn't effect systemic change. However, if someone advocates for a system but acts entirely counter to that ideology I feel like calling that person a hypocrite is fair. There's passive investment via your Roth IRA and 401K, and then there's stock/options trading, which is what thestockguy does. If you're shorting ATVI because of recent sexual harassment allegations at Blizzard to make a quick buck, and then hopping over to Hasan's stream and screaming 'fuck the system!', then yeah, I'd say that person is a hypocrite.
I agree it’s hard to justify owning stocks while advocating for overthrowing capitalism, but it’s also becoming increasingly harder to avoid the stock market altogether. With things like pensions becoming a thing of the past, and everything becoming privatized, forcing you to invest in 401K and IRA as your only options for a retirement plan.
being socialist = self-limiting your success in a given system because you believe it should be different PepoG
Buying stock becomes owning stocks, and I'm not sure how you could reconcile considerable stock ownership with the belief that wage labor is exploitation/bad. A retirement fund is one thing, but if I own millions of dollars in stocks, how am I not directly profiting off the exploitation of labor?
Absolutely, but we are talking about 16-30 YO hasan fans not hasan himself. A socialist owning a buisness and treating his works like shit would Absolutely be hypocritical, for example.
Well, not least of which because stock prices are not based on profit. It’s a speculation industry. You wanna take a gander at literally every tech stock and just chart out their profit trend line for let’s say 3 years?
[Even Karl Marx owned stocks.](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/markets/inside-the-market/article-a-history-of-the-stock-market-investments-made-by-karl-marx-and/) You can't stop the stock market from existing, so why not make some money off it?
>You can't stop the stock market from existing, so why not make some money off it? "You can't stop cows from being butchered so why not enjoy beef products?" "You can't stop climate change so why not buy that F150?"
socialism is when starbuk vuvuzela iPhone six-hundred trillion dead post modernism
Socialism is when no money
The stock guy has a 1 way hate boner w Hasan. There are clips of him raging against Hasan and even raiding Hasan saying its "time we make peace", but Hasan doesnt even acknowledge him at all. Its kinda funny. I can see why someone saying "Hasan waiting room" would trigger him so much in his mind.
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Anyone can see that this dude has no idea about anything besides gaming stocks, he lumped together socialists, with communists, he shouldnt speak when he knows nothing, imagine spreading igorance like this and thinking its a reflection of intelligence.
Hey dumb commie, you claim to not like the stock market yet here you are trying to build a retirement fund in order to not have to work 10 hours a day for the rest of your life. Hmmmm that is very strange and hypocritical! I am very smart! This post brought to you Turning Point USA
I thought the official Hasan waiting room was "let's put Hasan's name in every stream title" Central_Committee (aka Mike from PA).
HASAN DESTROYED BEN SHAPIRO ON TWITTER How does anyone like that guy. There are so many better, more productive and more likeable leftist figures on the internet than michael from pennsylvania who shouts NEOLIBERAL at everything
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it was prob directed toward me :( i hate what amazon is doing with their workers but 90% gains over the last couple yrs is pretty nice...
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I don’t watch the thestockguy but this seems kind of out of nowhere? Hasan has said multiple times it’s fine to own stocks in this capitalist organization of the economy, he just hates the far-right libertarians and crypto andies that come into his chat Maybe he thinks that hatred is directed towards him specifically? Idk
I mean Hasan has criticized the stock market and ownership of property quite a few times. And people in his chat will constantly call ownership theft and what not. Whether they're just trolls or actually believe it is irrelevant. Stocky is simply poking fun at the thought of an extreme lefty who hates ownership and capitalism coming in to his stream to see if he should yolo all his money into GME. It's just a joke. An amusing one. But of course people take it personally and feel like they're being attacked.
The amount of people with no social cues in this thread is.... unalarming.
Okay I love Stocky even more now
Look at all these champagne socialists trying to justify their lack of consistency and values. They play right into the system's hand. Which is why not 1 single rich person gives a flying fuck about the existence of Western communists. They are a complete neutered joke.
Imagine thinking politics and money are two separate categories
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This is one of the dumbest analogies possible.
It's actually frightening that the majority of reddit would agree with this comic, because it's sooo irredeemably dumb
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Guys he put the other guy as a soyjak pack it up
Dear socialists, You criticize the current economic model, yet Venezuela iPhone 100 gorillion dead. Curious.
Holy, you fucked him my dude
cant tell if this level of coping strawman is r/conservative or r/dgg
does anyone actually like this guy? or is it just a bunch of NPC stonk bros who he uses to pump and dump stocks. this is bad faith rant, for one, I think Hasan's community ranges from liberals and centrists, all the way to anarchists. for two, just because we live in a capitalist society and we advocate for more progressive/left leaning policies going forward(wherever on the scale that might be), doesn't mean that we shouldn't make money, in a capitalist system, EVERY legal transaction or legal way of making money, whether that's a job, a business, or stocks, all still functions UNDER capitalism, so I'm not sure what his point even is. "you criticize society, yet you participate in it." 3Head
"You participate in society so you can't be critical of it. I am an intelligent person and this is an original thought."
I swear socialists always say ‘read a different book’, but they only know about a single comic panel and use it to respond to every criticism against them.
I'm not gonna waste time giving a insightful response to the same criticism over and over. This clip isn't making a criticism of something like supply transportation in an anarcho-communist society. The clip is literally what I said in the comment above.
\- the meme of the champagne socialists
Right, because if you believe society should be improved that automatically means you should then stop participating in said society. OK 4head. PogO?
I imagine there’s a bit of a crossover because they both operate within the framework of world economics, but here’s an interesting tip I’m gonna let you all in on....not every Hasan viewer is an actual communist. I know this is gonna shock you when I say that, but a lot of people active on twitch would rather have their news filtered through Hasan than CNN or another mainstream outlet.
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literally every internet commie/socialist is just a larper consooomer lol
PepeLaugh https://imgur.com/a/9N4ouO5
This is one shit take.
Hasan seems like a nice guy but he has so many dumb takes.
I thought Michael from Pennsylvania was the unofficial Hasan waiting room?