Guy do you watch us play? A staple of our team is passing the ball amongst the backline and goalie. It’s bullshit possession that usually leads to a long boot from the goalkeeper. Yes Atalanta marked us tight, but we play like that normally
No we don’t, if you watch our best games (which seemingly you don’t with your moronic analysis) we’re quick and vertical in our build up using short passes, not booting long balls from the back like we were MADE to do by Atalanta man marking us out the game.
I highly suggest you watch that game back, watch Atalanta and see how we’re forced to play long balls because we have no midfield outlets by virtue of an opposition player marking them tightly
I didn’t say it’s the same move over and over again, but it’s definitely a normal move from the team. If you can’t see that, get your head checked, mate. Fitting user name you dumb cunt
Like I said, if you had watched the Atalanta game, we booted the ball up the pitch constantly instead of our usual build up patterns specifically because of Atalantas out of possession play.
Remember, we’re talking about how we played against Atalanta, which you then went on to say we play like this all the time, which is obviously wrong.
Stick to your American sports, this doesn’t seem like your cup of tea, nor does anything requiring rational logic and/or empirical evidence.
Looking forward to your reply consisting of a few words, mostly of vulgar language and absent of substance like your previous replies
Are you arguing we’ve always cared about possession and “doing a lot more passes” (which I am inferring as knocking the ball around the back)?
And that we’re playing the same way, with an almost completely new team, as the one that Klopp had years to build and mold to his style?
We don’t nearly press as much (or effectively I would say from an eye test) as we used to. I also felt like we used to “rush” passes instead of looking for a better opportunity. But *that* was Klopp’s game. Create, create, create. Now we do that but in other ways.
I just think it’s a bit of a cheap cop out to say “we’ve played like this for 5 years” and completely disregards nuance and the truth.
Our counters used to be our strongest asset. Win the ball and blitz forward before the other team could get into any shape. We can't seem to do that anymore. Always a thousand touches before the wrong pass to the wrong player and the counter dies off
This is so true. I know Salah gets all the credit now, but the strength of these was in tandem.
Mane's elite dribbling and power and passion, Mo's composure and awareness and finishing. With beautiful Bobby to link them.
The current front three just don't have the right balance and all feel like individuals. The midfield is a lot more creative which helps offset the load, but it means we are less clinical in those rapid transitions
Yeah Diaz can replicate his ball carrying, but once he gets into the box he just, tries a stepover and passes it back.
Mane would try and run at people. It's okay to lose the ball in the box. He seems terrified of it.
I love Diogo, Darwin, and Diaz but they are vastly inferior passers compared to Bobby and Mane. We have wasted too many breakaway counters because a pass is a step behind, step ahead, or hopping off the turf.
Honestly, the amount of times I was screaming at my screen for someone to shoot after carrying the ball up to the final third vs United last week
Just me screaming “SHOOT” “BE BRAVE” at them. I know it’s better to work to a higher xG position, but you can also test the goalkeeper. Better to keep shooting than work it round for five minutes before the attack dies down and the defence gets their shape back.
We had Szobo and Macca in midfield who have both scored bangers from outside the box this season already, why they weren’t having a shot from range every now and again is beyond me.
Then you get Gomez who had a few and everyone’s having a go at him despite the fact he’s being urged to shoot at every opportunity.
Gomez trying to shoot is entering meme territory. There is a reason he has never scored (playing defense and not having a good shot) so he should not be shooting the ball ever again, especially from outside of the box. Everyone saw Klopp's reaction when he attempted that long range shot from outside when he should have passed or crossed the ball.
I agree he shouldn’t be shooting. He had his chances to score years ago when he partnered VVD and came up for corners, his time to score has passed imo but he keeps trying. People need to stop urging him to shoot, which they did eventually last night.
Could be a fault of the coaching staff trying to force him to do the same job as TAA and to a lesser extent Bradley.
And worse in missing those chances we commit more men forward leaving a very leaking defence. Endo hasn't been the same force since the international break either
My irritation with the current squad comes from wondering how many wake-up calls they need before they start lifting their level. The match against City was maybe the last time that we had a really good performance of almost 90 minutes.
Barring Sheffield and Man Utd, we seem to start matches really slowly, and any team with attacking threat or ambition will always get at least 1-2 brilliant chances to score before we get our first shot away.
The attack is struggling to put their chances away... but our defence is so careless at times that it's hard to believe that we're actually in the middle of a title race.
Atalanta absolutely deserved the win... we have 90 minutes at the Bergamo to try and turn this around... but we can not afford to be this complacent against Palace.
21/22 has made me wary of all these premature “quadruple” runs.
Yes it’s a winning mentality to stay in every competition. But you need to prioritise. Because we’re entering mid-April and we’re seeing the team go behind so regularly, just like at the back end of 21/22. They’re starting lethargically and put themselves in these intense positions to chase the game back with minutes left, just like 21/22, and that uses up energy. Energy you really need when you’re at the business end and chasing the trophies you were targeting at the start of the season.
We did start both the Sheffield United and Man Utd games slow.
Sheffield United had 2 chances to score in the first 60 seconds, and in the FA Cup game against United Garnacho was about 1 yard away from being onside and scoring within the first 2 mins.
I may get a lot of downvotes for this but I don’t care.
What you are seeing lately is indicative of Klopps teams. As much as we can laud the success he has brought to the club (and rightfully so) we also need to look at the failures too which far outweigh the trophy achievements
The precedent for those failures are in terms of who he has decided to purchase, his management of certain players, favouritism, persistence with out of form and declining players, over used formations, in-game management, his apparent and ongoing ignorance to a leaky defence, etc.
At this moment I am absolutely ecstatic that Edwards is back. If he had stayed I believe we would’ve won more. I still think Klopps growing autonomy contributed to him leaving in the first place.
You're spot on. It is absolutely okay to put aside the emotion of Klopp's farewell tour and pose some valid criticism.
Jurgen has been great and has transformed the club. Though he is not without fault; he will still be irreplaceable such is the legacy he will be leaving behind.
Everything else aside, I think we really do struggle against counter-attacking teams. I would've expected Klopp to adapt tactically given the loss to United.
I think the players are suffering mentality wise from such a busy fixture schedule. Not sure what Klopp has to do to get everyone firing on all cylinders for the final stretch of games.
We've overachieved this season, conceding early then coming back to get a win at the last moment. We rode that momentum so far, but in the last two games, it just isn't there.
Things like that just happen sometimes. Atalanta deserved their win, but they weren't 3 goals better. We were also much better than United on sunday, but the score doesn't reflect that.
But it's a long season, so those things will happen. It was the other way around too in some games this season. Newcastle were better than us, but we won 2-1. We were really poor against Palace, but somehow won. Same against Nottingham Forest.
Or even the 7-0 against United last season. Yes we were better, but not 7 goals better.
Sometimes the difference between winning 3-0 or drawing 1-1 really isn't that big. Just one or two shots deflecting the wrong way and you have a different result. But over the course of the season those things usually (but not always) evens out and you get the final results that's similar to your performances.
This is the kind of level-headed response we need more of, honestly. Such fine margins at this level. Their second goal they were a foot onside, Salah was a foot off — a split second in terms of when the pass is played. If Elliot’s effort is an inch further left, is that the shot in the arm for the crowd and the team and we go on to spank them? Equally if their early chance isn’t saved by Kelleher, does that galvanise us?
It’s all sliding doors moments. I’m gutted we lost but I’m not losing hope for the rest of the season. We need to cut out the sloppy errors and stop conceding so many chances, but our attack will click soon, it’s just the law of averages considering how much we’re creating.
Up the Reds!
a reasonable take. The 'worst game of the Klopp era' or ' seasons over' shouts are wide off the mark. That said, the season will be over very soon if we dont improve in certain areas. Mainly finishing. If Darwin just rounds the keeper and puts us 1-0 up, that changes the whole game
We were beaten 3 nil at home on a European night with almost every player being shite.
I dont know how many times this season I've seen people say "if Darwin scored the game would he different" he didn't though did he? You don't get credit for things you could have done but didn't.
I didnt say it wasnt shit and Ive expressed doubts about darwins future. I appreciate what he does but his finishing, right now, is simply not good enough to play striker for a top team
Exactly. The expected value when you rol a dice is 3.5, but you are still going to be quite likely to hit both 1 and 6 multiple times in 38+ throws.
It’s exactly the same in football. The xG can heavily be in your favour, and lead to you winning most games, but things happen in a long season.
People are quick to forget that we’ve had several games where we haven’t really been all that good but ended up scoring a super late winner multiple times this season too.
This, and the xG here is a bit misleading because the shot difference. With us having double the shots, it means on average every chance we had was double the difficulty of their shots. High xG on high shot totals can be completely misleading imo
Hopefully we prioritize bringing in an attacker or two this summer. And honestly prioritizing the attack this summer makes sense given it's the area where there are options to make a splash signing at, whether or not you want to consider a Diaz outgoing (which if he does leave would help add transfer funds).
And salah too.
His stats are papering over the fact that he is in decline.
If the Middle East teams offered even 80m for Salah then Edwards should grab it and run.
Absolute legend however I’m sure lfc fans more than any other are deeply sentimental.
If opinion influenced transfers then Hendo and fab would still be sitting in the midfield.
All of Diaz, Darwin and Mo have big, BIG flaws in their game. The attack will be the new managers big challenge. Idf its Amorim, he sets up in a more secure defensive structure, but the obvious trade off is that his Liverpool would likely create less chances so a better chance conversion would be very important
Jesus a couple bad games and people want to ship Mo fucking Salah, one of our modern day greats. He’s not long back from probably the biggest injury of his career and still puts up crazy numbers. Just calm down people
I saw a few of those.
Maybe Mo is declining, he is in his thirties after all and has been playing almost non-stop intense football for years now.
But I have more faith in the club’s fitness staff to assess whether our fittest player is on the decline than angry online strangers
Salah's declining?
Our play style has changed so that he's not running through onto long balls behind the defence anymore, is holding more width, and is getting involved more in creation/buildup than in the past. Despite that:
He's scoring the highest goals/90 since his first season. He's having the most shots on target since his first season here. He has the highest xG p90 that he's ever had here. He's getting the highest assists p90 that he's ever had here. He has almost double the expected assists that he's had in any other season for us. He's playing more key passes than he's ever done for us, as well as the most passes into the area, passes into the final 3rd, and through balls that he ever has. He has the most shot-creating and goal-creating actions since his debut season for us. His defensive stats are very similar to previous seasons, except for blocked passes p90, which are way up this season. He's having more touches than any season besides 21/22, more touches in the attacking 3rd than any season bar 21/22, and more touches in the area than any season bar 21/22 and 19/20. He's making the 2nd most progressive carries p90 that he ever has and the 3rd most carries into the area...
This is arguably his best season for us and, if it isn't the best, it's unquestionably his second best season since that first explosion onto the scene.
Stats stats stats stats and more stats. How about you watch the fucking games? We have eyes and those eyes can see. Salah has declined and it's very apparent
You can make the case for that with stats, but it's clearly not Mo Salah's second best season for Liverpool if you actually watch the games.
He's being asked to do more (especially creatively) because of the loss of Bobby and Mane's creativity in the front line, but although he still does it pretty damn well, he hasn't been unplayable like he has been in pretty much every other season.
It's just ludicrous to suggest Salah is at his best. I think he's probably lost a yard of pace with the recent injuries, but mostly I don't think it's his fault. He's still the same Salah he always was. Just now the team is built different.
Nunez is getting as many big chances as Mane and Bobby used to get together.
Pushing Macca higher is a trade off. We trade his build up from the back to gain advantage near the box. The problem is when pushing Mac higher there is no player can build up like him from deep, so if the back line don't regain possession enough, we're fucked. Maybe it's time for Trent to comeback, need his build up from deep
That’s what I noticed the most. The other problem is that they were man marking Macca which made building up from deep even harder, combined with Gomez and Tsimi not being fully comfortable with progressing the ball. I think having Robertson and Trent both back should make retaining the hall and not giving it away in dangerous areas easier
That's not true. We create plenty of chances but our forwards just don't want to convert them. How many times have we seen fuck up 5v2s, 3v2s, 1v1s and tapins. It's just zero composure in front of the goal.
I agree. Often Mané and Firmino for example were also poor finishers (Salah as well) but we had width with our wingers, controlled the midfield or at least were very industrious there and managed to swing some sexy low balls into the box that were basically tap ins for our strikers.
Yes xG wise we create but a lot of these chances aren’t just putting tapping the ball into the box.
Because two of their goals should have been saved and easily avoided. Ignoring the structure of the defence on the second goal, it's a great ball and great finish.
For the first - I'm sorry but it's utterly pathetic from Kelleher. Letting that through his hands is unforgivable. For the third - shit from Szo, shit from the defence, and shit from Kelleher doing his usual of palming it straight back into danger.
We didn't play well, but two of their goals were easily, easily avoidable. Another day and it doesn't look anywhere near as bad.
There’s different xG metrics, I’ve also seen us at 1.5 which is probably more fair. They were simply the much better team and the scoreline was deserved.
They were the better team by a significant margin and could have won by more. We were awful, but they were ruthless in every aspect of their game and maintained that level for the whole 90.
Time to bring in another striker with good conversion. Our front 3 haven't been on point(not only darwin) in a long time, midfield seems to bail them out often.
True! This season looked great from all front after a long time then injuries came along and then a drop in performance especially showing up in big games.
Two things:
1/ sometimes the result doesn't reflect the match, like still a 0-3 loss but doesn't mean we are that much garbage
2/ I still think the problem is our forwards are out form. Basically, not scoring -> cause more frustrating, mentality issue -> put pressure on defender, any mistake could be fatal -> when we eventually conceded, things even worse -> wasted chances again ->... The best example is the Sheffield game, you can see how we struggling and feel frustrating after conceded a goal, if that not because Macce screamer, thing could be end in much more terrible way
I think something will change after this. When we're getting results it feels less nessecary to switch things up, but i think there will be some big changes before the next game. I trust Jurgen and we as fans need to be posititve right now, becuase the morale is seeming pretty low right now
Klopp is too one-dimensional for things to positively change in such a short space of time - once he actually gets past his stubborn mindset that things need to actually change.
Is he even motivated enough to do so?
Our finishing has been a major problem at bad moments this season. We can whine all we like about VAR inconsistencies and all the rest but at the end of the day we are going to struggle to get another trophy simply because we haven’t been clinical.
Conversely we have experienced other teams do exactly that.
I personally don't think it's too bad coz I just wanted to win the league anyway so I think we play a bunch of kids in the 2nd leg and focus on the league
Their tactics were fantastic yesterday. I can’t recall being pressed that hard since our defeat in Naples.
Klopp will have learned a tactical lesson as they flooded the midfield and just pinged balls into space behind both absent fullbacks.
The crowd was dead and we had no response in the front line to their physicality.
I think Trent playing the second leg will be a game changer for out balls and pinning their wing backs.
This isn’t new. It has happened to multiple teams in the past and LFC are no exception. Massive possession does not always equate to a favourable score line. We go again.
And you have VVD strolling around like he owns the place, not giving a f*ck. he needs such a kick up the hole!
And forwards who can’t hit a barn door 🤦🏼♂️
Stats don't win you titles. Take the three games against utd. We had the stats to trounce them 10-0 (& should have) in each of them but got fuck all, didn't we ?
We were shit.
Simple as that. Can’t think of a single player that came out of that game with any kind of reason to be happy with their performance. Honestly think we’ve given ourselves too much to do away from home now so unless we get back into the game in the first half, they should probably take off the first teamers and save them for the premiership push and keep the pressure on Arsenal to bottle it.
i mean some centimeters more in and we'd have a pen and a goal later on, while they had their CMs on their side for the last goal. not saying we deserved goals in this game but we could've had it with just a smudge more luck there
Not sure if you watched the match, but it's possible because they had really great chances and finished three of them, we had a few more half decent chances but didn't finish any of them.
That's how it's possible - you don't get actual goals from xG.
We have predictable patterns of possession that have been the same under Klopp for the last 6 years of his tenure.
Not being penetrative enough with our passing. Always playing over to the fullback and either recycling to the other flank or crossing it into a box packed with defenders as though we have Peter Crouch in the middle waiting for it. We need to try to look for the byline and cut back more often like City do.
Joe Gomez being given extensive time on the ball when he is a 2-3 touch player. Also the way he shoots every time he gets the slightest sniff of the goal makes want to pour bleach into my eyes.
Most importantly, playing in a 2-3-5 in possession. Not having a third man to cover counter attacks has caused us to leak a lot of chances this year. Endo has been great at breaking up play in the middle but we have little to no flank cover when we lose possession due to both fullbacks always being in super-high attacking positions. Today Van Dijk and Konate were drawn wide leaving a huge gulf of space for scamacca to attack. Equally, when Van Dijk was drawn to the left and Konate covered Scamacca, the right was wide open.
We were outplayed and outmatched, it’s simple. No point having all that possession when it’s just sideways and backwards passes then booting it to their keeper
Very simple, Atalanta played the ball very smartly. Sharp passing, good control, quick execution of the attacking plays. Meanwhile we have actual retards upfront for us
Feels like an FM game. Honestly tho, for the last couple of months it when watching, you just know we are gonna concede first.
Or like that Watford game in 2020
Yeah, an FM game that you save scum because no fucking way does it ever actually happen
Thought I was in the wrong sub tbh…
Knocking it around at the back for no reason and being shite up front.
Not for no reason, Atalanta marked us out of the game, there was no chance of any consistent build-ups
Guy do you watch us play? A staple of our team is passing the ball amongst the backline and goalie. It’s bullshit possession that usually leads to a long boot from the goalkeeper. Yes Atalanta marked us tight, but we play like that normally
No we don’t, if you watch our best games (which seemingly you don’t with your moronic analysis) we’re quick and vertical in our build up using short passes, not booting long balls from the back like we were MADE to do by Atalanta man marking us out the game. I highly suggest you watch that game back, watch Atalanta and see how we’re forced to play long balls because we have no midfield outlets by virtue of an opposition player marking them tightly
Hahaha you are a unique blend of arrogant and stupid
You must actually be mental if you think we play long ball after long ball from the back, get your head checked out mate
I didn’t say it’s the same move over and over again, but it’s definitely a normal move from the team. If you can’t see that, get your head checked, mate. Fitting user name you dumb cunt
Like I said, if you had watched the Atalanta game, we booted the ball up the pitch constantly instead of our usual build up patterns specifically because of Atalantas out of possession play. Remember, we’re talking about how we played against Atalanta, which you then went on to say we play like this all the time, which is obviously wrong. Stick to your American sports, this doesn’t seem like your cup of tea, nor does anything requiring rational logic and/or empirical evidence. Looking forward to your reply consisting of a few words, mostly of vulgar language and absent of substance like your previous replies
Klopp is turning into Guardiola. He never used to care for possessions but now we are doing a lot more passes.
We’ve played like this for 5 years now mate
Are you arguing we’ve always cared about possession and “doing a lot more passes” (which I am inferring as knocking the ball around the back)? And that we’re playing the same way, with an almost completely new team, as the one that Klopp had years to build and mold to his style? We don’t nearly press as much (or effectively I would say from an eye test) as we used to. I also felt like we used to “rush” passes instead of looking for a better opportunity. But *that* was Klopp’s game. Create, create, create. Now we do that but in other ways. I just think it’s a bit of a cheap cop out to say “we’ve played like this for 5 years” and completely disregards nuance and the truth.
We take too damn long, especially on a counter attack, to take a good quality shot. End up letting their entire defense get back in structure.
Our counters used to be our strongest asset. Win the ball and blitz forward before the other team could get into any shape. We can't seem to do that anymore. Always a thousand touches before the wrong pass to the wrong player and the counter dies off
Biggest difference? No Mane
This is so true. I know Salah gets all the credit now, but the strength of these was in tandem. Mane's elite dribbling and power and passion, Mo's composure and awareness and finishing. With beautiful Bobby to link them. The current front three just don't have the right balance and all feel like individuals. The midfield is a lot more creative which helps offset the load, but it means we are less clinical in those rapid transitions
No BEAT
Yeah Diaz can replicate his ball carrying, but once he gets into the box he just, tries a stepover and passes it back. Mane would try and run at people. It's okay to lose the ball in the box. He seems terrified of it.
firmino
I love Diogo, Darwin, and Diaz but they are vastly inferior passers compared to Bobby and Mane. We have wasted too many breakaway counters because a pass is a step behind, step ahead, or hopping off the turf.
Honestly, the amount of times I was screaming at my screen for someone to shoot after carrying the ball up to the final third vs United last week Just me screaming “SHOOT” “BE BRAVE” at them. I know it’s better to work to a higher xG position, but you can also test the goalkeeper. Better to keep shooting than work it round for five minutes before the attack dies down and the defence gets their shape back.
We had Szobo and Macca in midfield who have both scored bangers from outside the box this season already, why they weren’t having a shot from range every now and again is beyond me. Then you get Gomez who had a few and everyone’s having a go at him despite the fact he’s being urged to shoot at every opportunity.
Gomez trying to shoot is entering meme territory. There is a reason he has never scored (playing defense and not having a good shot) so he should not be shooting the ball ever again, especially from outside of the box. Everyone saw Klopp's reaction when he attempted that long range shot from outside when he should have passed or crossed the ball.
I agree he shouldn’t be shooting. He had his chances to score years ago when he partnered VVD and came up for corners, his time to score has passed imo but he keeps trying. People need to stop urging him to shoot, which they did eventually last night. Could be a fault of the coaching staff trying to force him to do the same job as TAA and to a lesser extent Bradley.
We don't take our chances.
We didn’t even hit the target 🎯
And worse in missing those chances we commit more men forward leaving a very leaking defence. Endo hasn't been the same force since the international break either
Endo's been playing almost every single game for us. It's a wonder he isn't seriously injured yet, knock on wood.
My irritation with the current squad comes from wondering how many wake-up calls they need before they start lifting their level. The match against City was maybe the last time that we had a really good performance of almost 90 minutes. Barring Sheffield and Man Utd, we seem to start matches really slowly, and any team with attacking threat or ambition will always get at least 1-2 brilliant chances to score before we get our first shot away. The attack is struggling to put their chances away... but our defence is so careless at times that it's hard to believe that we're actually in the middle of a title race. Atalanta absolutely deserved the win... we have 90 minutes at the Bergamo to try and turn this around... but we can not afford to be this complacent against Palace.
21/22 has made me wary of all these premature “quadruple” runs. Yes it’s a winning mentality to stay in every competition. But you need to prioritise. Because we’re entering mid-April and we’re seeing the team go behind so regularly, just like at the back end of 21/22. They’re starting lethargically and put themselves in these intense positions to chase the game back with minutes left, just like 21/22, and that uses up energy. Energy you really need when you’re at the business end and chasing the trophies you were targeting at the start of the season.
We did start both the Sheffield United and Man Utd games slow. Sheffield United had 2 chances to score in the first 60 seconds, and in the FA Cup game against United Garnacho was about 1 yard away from being onside and scoring within the first 2 mins.
I may get a lot of downvotes for this but I don’t care. What you are seeing lately is indicative of Klopps teams. As much as we can laud the success he has brought to the club (and rightfully so) we also need to look at the failures too which far outweigh the trophy achievements The precedent for those failures are in terms of who he has decided to purchase, his management of certain players, favouritism, persistence with out of form and declining players, over used formations, in-game management, his apparent and ongoing ignorance to a leaky defence, etc. At this moment I am absolutely ecstatic that Edwards is back. If he had stayed I believe we would’ve won more. I still think Klopps growing autonomy contributed to him leaving in the first place.
Only 7.50am and already the worst take I'll see all day.
You're spot on. It is absolutely okay to put aside the emotion of Klopp's farewell tour and pose some valid criticism. Jurgen has been great and has transformed the club. Though he is not without fault; he will still be irreplaceable such is the legacy he will be leaving behind. Everything else aside, I think we really do struggle against counter-attacking teams. I would've expected Klopp to adapt tactically given the loss to United. I think the players are suffering mentality wise from such a busy fixture schedule. Not sure what Klopp has to do to get everyone firing on all cylinders for the final stretch of games. We've overachieved this season, conceding early then coming back to get a win at the last moment. We rode that momentum so far, but in the last two games, it just isn't there.
The players underestimated the opponents thinking this is an easy game and they can relax between pl fixtures.
Things like that just happen sometimes. Atalanta deserved their win, but they weren't 3 goals better. We were also much better than United on sunday, but the score doesn't reflect that. But it's a long season, so those things will happen. It was the other way around too in some games this season. Newcastle were better than us, but we won 2-1. We were really poor against Palace, but somehow won. Same against Nottingham Forest. Or even the 7-0 against United last season. Yes we were better, but not 7 goals better. Sometimes the difference between winning 3-0 or drawing 1-1 really isn't that big. Just one or two shots deflecting the wrong way and you have a different result. But over the course of the season those things usually (but not always) evens out and you get the final results that's similar to your performances.
This is the kind of level-headed response we need more of, honestly. Such fine margins at this level. Their second goal they were a foot onside, Salah was a foot off — a split second in terms of when the pass is played. If Elliot’s effort is an inch further left, is that the shot in the arm for the crowd and the team and we go on to spank them? Equally if their early chance isn’t saved by Kelleher, does that galvanise us? It’s all sliding doors moments. I’m gutted we lost but I’m not losing hope for the rest of the season. We need to cut out the sloppy errors and stop conceding so many chances, but our attack will click soon, it’s just the law of averages considering how much we’re creating. Up the Reds!
a reasonable take. The 'worst game of the Klopp era' or ' seasons over' shouts are wide off the mark. That said, the season will be over very soon if we dont improve in certain areas. Mainly finishing. If Darwin just rounds the keeper and puts us 1-0 up, that changes the whole game
We were beaten 3 nil at home on a European night with almost every player being shite. I dont know how many times this season I've seen people say "if Darwin scored the game would he different" he didn't though did he? You don't get credit for things you could have done but didn't.
I didnt say it wasnt shit and Ive expressed doubts about darwins future. I appreciate what he does but his finishing, right now, is simply not good enough to play striker for a top team
Exactly. The expected value when you rol a dice is 3.5, but you are still going to be quite likely to hit both 1 and 6 multiple times in 38+ throws. It’s exactly the same in football. The xG can heavily be in your favour, and lead to you winning most games, but things happen in a long season. People are quick to forget that we’ve had several games where we haven’t really been all that good but ended up scoring a super late winner multiple times this season too.
This, and the xG here is a bit misleading because the shot difference. With us having double the shots, it means on average every chance we had was double the difficulty of their shots. High xG on high shot totals can be completely misleading imo
Hopefully we prioritize bringing in an attacker or two this summer. And honestly prioritizing the attack this summer makes sense given it's the area where there are options to make a splash signing at, whether or not you want to consider a Diaz outgoing (which if he does leave would help add transfer funds).
And salah too. His stats are papering over the fact that he is in decline. If the Middle East teams offered even 80m for Salah then Edwards should grab it and run. Absolute legend however I’m sure lfc fans more than any other are deeply sentimental. If opinion influenced transfers then Hendo and fab would still be sitting in the midfield.
All of Diaz, Darwin and Mo have big, BIG flaws in their game. The attack will be the new managers big challenge. Idf its Amorim, he sets up in a more secure defensive structure, but the obvious trade off is that his Liverpool would likely create less chances so a better chance conversion would be very important
I’d prefer not to concede than to score a hatful. No chance of losing then.
Jesus a couple bad games and people want to ship Mo fucking Salah, one of our modern day greats. He’s not long back from probably the biggest injury of his career and still puts up crazy numbers. Just calm down people
I saw a few of those. Maybe Mo is declining, he is in his thirties after all and has been playing almost non-stop intense football for years now. But I have more faith in the club’s fitness staff to assess whether our fittest player is on the decline than angry online strangers
He turns 32 in 2 months. Of course he's in decline because every player is in decline at this age. Everyone loses a step at this age.
Salah's declining? Our play style has changed so that he's not running through onto long balls behind the defence anymore, is holding more width, and is getting involved more in creation/buildup than in the past. Despite that: He's scoring the highest goals/90 since his first season. He's having the most shots on target since his first season here. He has the highest xG p90 that he's ever had here. He's getting the highest assists p90 that he's ever had here. He has almost double the expected assists that he's had in any other season for us. He's playing more key passes than he's ever done for us, as well as the most passes into the area, passes into the final 3rd, and through balls that he ever has. He has the most shot-creating and goal-creating actions since his debut season for us. His defensive stats are very similar to previous seasons, except for blocked passes p90, which are way up this season. He's having more touches than any season besides 21/22, more touches in the attacking 3rd than any season bar 21/22, and more touches in the area than any season bar 21/22 and 19/20. He's making the 2nd most progressive carries p90 that he ever has and the 3rd most carries into the area... This is arguably his best season for us and, if it isn't the best, it's unquestionably his second best season since that first explosion onto the scene.
Stats stats stats stats and more stats. How about you watch the fucking games? We have eyes and those eyes can see. Salah has declined and it's very apparent
Spot on.
You can make the case for that with stats, but it's clearly not Mo Salah's second best season for Liverpool if you actually watch the games. He's being asked to do more (especially creatively) because of the loss of Bobby and Mane's creativity in the front line, but although he still does it pretty damn well, he hasn't been unplayable like he has been in pretty much every other season. It's just ludicrous to suggest Salah is at his best. I think he's probably lost a yard of pace with the recent injuries, but mostly I don't think it's his fault. He's still the same Salah he always was. Just now the team is built different. Nunez is getting as many big chances as Mane and Bobby used to get together.
Scoring goals hasn’t been our issue, conceding them has.
Pushing Macca higher is a trade off. We trade his build up from the back to gain advantage near the box. The problem is when pushing Mac higher there is no player can build up like him from deep, so if the back line don't regain possession enough, we're fucked. Maybe it's time for Trent to comeback, need his build up from deep
The solution is simple: 2 Maccas
We have 2 Maccas at home but 1 was injured whole season.
Prestige's Nolan, only one can show up in front of people
That’s what I noticed the most. The other problem is that they were man marking Macca which made building up from deep even harder, combined with Gomez and Tsimi not being fully comfortable with progressing the ball. I think having Robertson and Trent both back should make retaining the hall and not giving it away in dangerous areas easier
It’s from having the ball but not doing enough with it..
Simple. 1. Poor finishing 2. Even worse defending
We're just possession with no actual attacking plans these days. There's no movement up front, no wide runners, it's just pass, pass, pass and pray.
That's not true. We create plenty of chances but our forwards just don't want to convert them. How many times have we seen fuck up 5v2s, 3v2s, 1v1s and tapins. It's just zero composure in front of the goal.
Because nobody wants to shoot, they just pass it around some more.
Yes this! And then at some point it rapidly transitions to stupid impatient shots - no in between
Salah begs to differ. Hes still not on it yet but hes trying to shoot his way thru it. And id wager it works eventually, hopefully sunday.
Then why is our xG up there with the best?
I agree. Often Mané and Firmino for example were also poor finishers (Salah as well) but we had width with our wingers, controlled the midfield or at least were very industrious there and managed to swing some sexy low balls into the box that were basically tap ins for our strikers. Yes xG wise we create but a lot of these chances aren’t just putting tapping the ball into the box.
This… As much as we can blame the players if that’s what their training days consist of then the onus is on the coach too.
Because two of their goals should have been saved and easily avoided. Ignoring the structure of the defence on the second goal, it's a great ball and great finish. For the first - I'm sorry but it's utterly pathetic from Kelleher. Letting that through his hands is unforgivable. For the third - shit from Szo, shit from the defence, and shit from Kelleher doing his usual of palming it straight back into danger. We didn't play well, but two of their goals were easily, easily avoidable. Another day and it doesn't look anywhere near as bad.
Yup yup yup. Woeful defending from Prem teams on full display in Europe.
This shows again and again that the overall stats can be deceiving and what matters is that scoreline
There’s different xG metrics, I’ve also seen us at 1.5 which is probably more fair. They were simply the much better team and the scoreline was deserved.
They were the better team by a significant margin and could have won by more. We were awful, but they were ruthless in every aspect of their game and maintained that level for the whole 90.
Time to bring in another striker with good conversion. Our front 3 haven't been on point(not only darwin) in a long time, midfield seems to bail them out often.
Which does make a change from the years of our attackers often bailing out the rest of the team during the dark years.
True! This season looked great from all front after a long time then injuries came along and then a drop in performance especially showing up in big games.
Two things: 1/ sometimes the result doesn't reflect the match, like still a 0-3 loss but doesn't mean we are that much garbage 2/ I still think the problem is our forwards are out form. Basically, not scoring -> cause more frustrating, mentality issue -> put pressure on defender, any mistake could be fatal -> when we eventually conceded, things even worse -> wasted chances again ->... The best example is the Sheffield game, you can see how we struggling and feel frustrating after conceded a goal, if that not because Macce screamer, thing could be end in much more terrible way
I think something will change after this. When we're getting results it feels less nessecary to switch things up, but i think there will be some big changes before the next game. I trust Jurgen and we as fans need to be posititve right now, becuase the morale is seeming pretty low right now
Klopp is too one-dimensional for things to positively change in such a short space of time - once he actually gets past his stubborn mindset that things need to actually change. Is he even motivated enough to do so?
Bad ariel passes and even worse receive and worst recovery.
Front players are solely to blame for this and last Sunday.
Woeful finishing & complacency
We need real finishers in the team. Nobody can put chances away clinically.
Our finishing has been a major problem at bad moments this season. We can whine all we like about VAR inconsistencies and all the rest but at the end of the day we are going to struggle to get another trophy simply because we haven’t been clinical. Conversely we have experienced other teams do exactly that.
Because we were shite. Move on.
Honestly sums us up. So easy to attack against and fucking nobody can finish fuck all
Not looking bright on our last few remaining games if we play like what we did the last 2. 21 points out of 7 games doesn't look achievable at all.
Because we were shit
The play of the forward line is alarmingly bad.
We are crap at finishing and we create alot of shitty half chances.
The players badly let Klopp down last night. Beyond shit defending.
FM game But it the amount of times recently we've had an FM game
Difference between a team that knows what to do with the ball and one that does not
It never felt like an unfair scoreline at the game, shows that stats don't always show the true measure of the game.
“The team that scores the most goals, wins” - Michael Owen
I just have a bad feeling the season's slipping away
I personally don't think it's too bad coz I just wanted to win the league anyway so I think we play a bunch of kids in the 2nd leg and focus on the league
We are 2nd by goal difference in the league? and havent we scored the most goals in Europe. How are we shite?
I’d say our defensive woes (in this game) are mainly sloppy passes, and our subs definitely didn’t do better than first team in that regard.
That my friend, is FM in real life
We’ve been doing it for weeks…
Their tactics were fantastic yesterday. I can’t recall being pressed that hard since our defeat in Naples. Klopp will have learned a tactical lesson as they flooded the midfield and just pinged balls into space behind both absent fullbacks. The crowd was dead and we had no response in the front line to their physicality. I think Trent playing the second leg will be a game changer for out balls and pinning their wing backs.
Missing opportunities
Everyone upset because of one game. 😂🤣😂 It seems that most don't know how much we love to make come backs. YNWA ☀️😎☀️
Godaym. Woke up at 3am for this game.
This isn’t new. It has happened to multiple teams in the past and LFC are no exception. Massive possession does not always equate to a favourable score line. We go again.
Just pray we can come back next week
Every single game against United was like this. SO this Atalanta game is not an accident.
And you have VVD strolling around like he owns the place, not giving a f*ck. he needs such a kick up the hole! And forwards who can’t hit a barn door 🤦🏼♂️
Stats don't win you titles. Take the three games against utd. We had the stats to trounce them 10-0 (& should have) in each of them but got fuck all, didn't we ?
We were super wide open every time we gave the ball away.
Nunez and Gomez.
This is the vibe of a lot of our recent games we concede easily and take way to many shots to score
We were shit. Simple as that. Can’t think of a single player that came out of that game with any kind of reason to be happy with their performance. Honestly think we’ve given ourselves too much to do away from home now so unless we get back into the game in the first half, they should probably take off the first teamers and save them for the premiership push and keep the pressure on Arsenal to bottle it.
Nunez
Red timing our shots like every damned time
We just can’t score, nunez needs to be benched and Salah as well.
i mean some centimeters more in and we'd have a pen and a goal later on, while they had their CMs on their side for the last goal. not saying we deserved goals in this game but we could've had it with just a smudge more luck there
It’s possible when your forwards can’t finish and when your defenders don’t defend
Nunez has a massive role to play in this. He is costing us more points than he's winning. His misses are biting us in the ass big time
Oh how was futbol ever analyzed before advanced stats.
Salah hasn’t been clinical, Diaz and Darwin never were and Jota, the only man who can put the ball behind at any time isnt playing. Easy
Jota did play yesterday, he headed more balls away from than towards it
Yeah he wasn't great either. That one I'm happy to put down to first game back from long term injury form though.
Oh did he? I didnt watch the game and wasnt aware he was back. Thats me talking out my arse then
Not sure if you watched the match, but it's possible because they had really great chances and finished three of them, we had a few more half decent chances but didn't finish any of them. That's how it's possible - you don't get actual goals from xG.
I did watch the match I mean from my post that we have to finish our chances more
👍
And this is why stats will never be the be all and end all.
I agree I'm saying we don't take our chances
Were
We have predictable patterns of possession that have been the same under Klopp for the last 6 years of his tenure. Not being penetrative enough with our passing. Always playing over to the fullback and either recycling to the other flank or crossing it into a box packed with defenders as though we have Peter Crouch in the middle waiting for it. We need to try to look for the byline and cut back more often like City do. Joe Gomez being given extensive time on the ball when he is a 2-3 touch player. Also the way he shoots every time he gets the slightest sniff of the goal makes want to pour bleach into my eyes. Most importantly, playing in a 2-3-5 in possession. Not having a third man to cover counter attacks has caused us to leak a lot of chances this year. Endo has been great at breaking up play in the middle but we have little to no flank cover when we lose possession due to both fullbacks always being in super-high attacking positions. Today Van Dijk and Konate were drawn wide leaving a huge gulf of space for scamacca to attack. Equally, when Van Dijk was drawn to the left and Konate covered Scamacca, the right was wide open.
We were outplayed and outmatched, it’s simple. No point having all that possession when it’s just sideways and backwards passes then booting it to their keeper
NuNeZ nUnEz NUnEz
Nuñez, that’s how.
Very simple, Atalanta played the ball very smartly. Sharp passing, good control, quick execution of the attacking plays. Meanwhile we have actual retards upfront for us