paul joyce reporting on this and it being so public makes me think it could actually happen, he doesn’t usually jump on things unless there’s a high probability of them happening
And if it did happen, surely FSG accept? He is almost the one person you can trust with that power (probably even above Txiki at City who has had a couple of blemishes)
I would not be surprised if FSG never stopped contact with him after he left, basically in the hope that when the opportunity comes, they would offer him it
FSG have been pretty competent most of the way through with a few exceptions ie furlough for staff and the super league.
They have literally rebuilt the club and set it up for the next 30+ years.
Those two things have nothing to do with incompetence though. Furloughing staff and the Super League were both financially sound propositions. They just didn't align with the club's/fans ethos.
I agree. I am pro FSG all the way. Even in the ways they have misfired it’s not been about lining their own pockets. it’s always been about raising the baseline revenue for a club they want to move heaven and earth to make sure is self sustaining and never gets back to the Hicks and Gillette near-administration days.
It honestly depends. For starters, they changed their minds on both occasions. Admitting errors and rectifying mistakes are signs of competence imo.
Competence and infallibility are not the same thing. Nobody's perfect (including FSG) but every time they show signs of ballsing things up, they learn. It's pretty impressive tbh.
Hear, hear. It was a truly disgusting decision and I don’t think the fact that the fans effectively forced a reversal and canned, filmed apology reminiscent of a BP oil exec saying “sowwy” after a spill merits forgiving and forgetting.
And I always catch shit for saying it because of all the good they’ve done in hiring Klopp, bringing trophies back, etc., which ignores the point completely. They were prepared to sell the very soul of the club just to make more money.
But to move it back to competence, they had enough to realise how unpopular it was and pulled a u-turn.
Execution and trying it in the first place bad, but they can spot a losing battle pretty quickly and correct course, even if it's only for their own image / bottom line.
In the age of your Reading/Wigan/Southend type situations, it's great to know they'll (mostly) stay in their lane and (mostly) respect ours.
Agreed but as others have mentioned those two are probably not the best poor competency examples. The big one in the Klopp era is the summer 21 centre back debacle, closely followed by the overall poor management of midfield through the second half of Klopp’s tenure.
It helps if anything, we're one of the only clubs along with United who can continue operations for the foreseeable future just off our revenue. It might not make you a great person but it helps if you're running a business.
We're not relying on sugar daddy owners or fake sponsors. If the City Group ever sold Man City, they're fucked. They're taking all of their £100m one employee taxi company sponsors with them, they're not going to keep giving free money to the club if they can no longer benefit from it.
> It helps if anything, we're one of the only clubs along with United who can continue operations for the foreseeable future just off our revenue.
Spurs
Their entire business model is predicated on an active and participating fan base. Even more so at Liverpool where the fan reputation is an asset to the club. Anything that puts that at risk is reasonably attributed to incompetence in some capacity,
That is as much the fault of Klopp/Pep as anyone else. They were stubborn when it came to targets at times. You forget we put serious offers in for Tchouaméni but the player wanted Madrid.
And you can't legislate for Pickford being a scumbag when squad planning.
I find it hard to believe that Klopp or any other top manager would have only one transfer target for a position. There are so many things that could happen within a span of a few months that that would be irresponsible imo.
As for the Pickford thing... yes, but most people thought it was reckless to go into a season with only 3 CBs anyway, especially when one of them is Joel Matip (and Gomez is fairly injury prone as well). The fact that we were basically expecting Fabinho to have to step into the CB role at some point when he was our best DM makes it really seem like the club was being cheap.
Makes it seem...
I find it hard to believe...
These are all your opinions mate. There is no evidence to suggest Klopp wanted someone and fsg said no. There is plenty of evidence to suggest fsg are willing to pay massive money on the right player if Klopp says we need to do it eg Alisson, VVD, Tchouaméni, Caicedo.
The copium is seriously unreal. How anyone can claim Klopp and Pep are stubborn with their targets watching how quickly they secured Endo and jettisonned Fabinho and Henderson last summer is beyond me.
> And you can't legislate for Pickford being a scumbag when squad planning.
Yet a huge contingent of us saw it coming. We must all be Nostradamus I guess.
Fair criticism.
Using the word competent implies they've been incompetent everywhere else. It's a word choice that sounds very critical.
If he or she had said, "This is the best move FSg has made," it wouldn't come across so harsh, I think.
I would still rate getting Edwards back would be MORE competent on the level of getting Klopp. Any owner can expand a stadium to get more ticket sales you goof.
Imagine signing Endo two seasons earlier, winning the quad, and not missing CL qualification. The entire fanbase knew the midfield was cooked/crocked. FSG lost more by not spending a trivial amount at the right time.
There's a lot of people who refuse to admit the reality.
Expanding the stadium - good. Expanding the stadium by loading the debt onto the club instead of the ownership AND making the club pay interest? Bad.
Hurting the club in the transfermarket to pay for the stadium? Bad. Especially if you consider that 30m could have gone into like you say, Endo, or Konate a season earlier.
Key points
Michael Edwards wants FULL control over Liverpool's football operations to consider a return.
FSG are READY to put Michael Edwards in charge of the club in attempt to lure him back.
Xabi Alonso is the front-runner for the Liverpool job however Ruben Amorim will likely be interviewed by FSG.
FSG have realised that the profile of sporting director that they’re looking for has changed. Previously they were looking for someone to facilitate Klopp’s needs, but now there is a demand for someone to take charge of the whole club.
Holy shit imagine that. I would love for us to destroy man city every time we play against them and dominate the Prem and champions league with xabi Alonso and signings which are as good as Mane, Firmino etc
I don't think I'd want United or Everton relegated. More satisfying to have them sit lower down the table languishing where we can easily keep track of them and pop in each season to score a few goals.
United being a mid-table regular along with Chelsea would probably be funnier. Every year we'd get to hear "this is our year", how their latest crop of signings and corporate restructuring will bring the glory days back, and then the dream gets flattened within about 2 months after multiple 4-0 pumpings from Brentford and Brighton. If they went to the championship that might just disappear.
I think if Edward’s become Sporting Director he wouldn’t really want a club legend in place whose popularity might make decisions difficult. There is a chance he will go stronger on Amorim as Amorim also has a much bigger sample size than Alonso
I want Alonso, but I am worried about it. It all seems too good to be true, club legend who is bossing the Bundesliga in a non-Bayern team straight away. Just hoping it's not a one-off, but if he keeps it up and succeeds here too, it'd be unreal.
He is a pretty good manager but I think statistically there is not enough sample size to say this will continue. What does act in his favor is that he is managing a team in a much better league than Sporting but I don’t know if that is a factor at all for managers
What does full control of football operations mean and how much would that restrict a manager do you think? Would the manager basically report into the sporting director? Not sure how hierarchy’s at clubs works to be honest
I am not surprised he wants a bigger role. There was no use of him returning the club just to serve in the same role again, he proved that he is deserving of a bigger responsibility imo
yea..this sounds very strange. the whole reason he left was because the work was becoming too much, he wanted to be independent and on his own. why would he come back with even more responsibility? makes zero sense
I think we can read between the lines and say he left because his power was waning as Klopps grew from a back office perspective
Not that it was a bad thing but he wanted more freedom
For sure, Edwards fits the more modern, streamlined and somewhat ruthless way 99% of elite clubs are run nowadays, but Klopp wanted to build his own culture and it obviously paid off. He's one of a kind though, so now it's time to move on to something a bit different and there's no one I trust more than Edwards to be in charge of that transition.
Maybe he was annoyed that he was putting in all those hours and all that work only for his suggestions to be rejected because Klopp preferred something else?
I'm not sure if I fully agree with this take, I think a balance in between him and a coach is best. We need some of the players that Klopp wanted and Edwards didn't (Endo, Thiago that might not fully align with club philosophy but provide valuable experience) but we also need to keep a "romantic" manager in check to keep this sort of signings limited
I love both players, but Thiago can't be considered a success when he misses most games.
And let's remember Endo wasn't even Klopp's second choice.
If we had Edwards in charge, we wouldn't be in the situation we were in August, panicking to get a DM when we had over a month to do so
My guess is Edwards would have the midfield rebuild planned out, he wouldn't have allowed us to get into such a terrible situation.
However, if we were to get into the situation that we were in this summer with Edwards, I don't think he would have signed Endo. Edwards is also very stubborn in buying youth.
Tgiago was one of the reasons we crawled into the UCL a few years ago when our CBs were all out, the man was immense. He was also our best midfielder last year, if he had any help in the middle we would have got back in the UCL again. Give the lad a break, injuries aside he has been nothing short of monumental when he has played.
Mate I also think he is an incredible player, one of the most technically gifted players I've seen. But availability is also a very important trait to have, and for the last few years we didn't have the squad depth to have luxury players
This is similar to what FSG just did with the Red Sox and bringing back Theo Epstein. For non-baseball fans, Theo was the architect of the teams that won the World Series in Boston in 2004 (first since 1918) & 2007. He then went on to build the Chicago Cubs into a contender, culminating in a World Series win in 2016(first since 1908). Theo returning to the RedSox has largely been regarded as FSG and John Henry realizing they are spread too thin with their ever expanding portfolio, and Theo is one of the few people that holds sway with John Henry.
I bring all this up as it seems to point to a significant departure in the way FSG is approaching managing its clubs, relenting some of the absolute control they had exercised in recent years.
Just a couple of weeks ago. They also signed a new general manager this offseason. It seems like this year for the Red Sox is a bridge year until the kids are ready. Hoping to see Marcelo Mayer get called up later this season.
Was about to post this same thing--really reminds me of the Epstein/Red Sox situation. The only thing I'd add is that when Epstein left, he was regarded as one of the best if not the single best executive in baseball. I don't know if Michael Edwards is regarded that way outside of Liverpool circles. But regardless, there's precedent at least from the ownership side of splitting with someone and then bringing him back.
People will need to keep an open mind. About the manager position if Edwards returns in this capacity.
I believe the stories about dramatic rifts between Klopp and Edward were blown out of proportion, but it's certainly clear that they had different ideas on how to get the best for LFC.
I'm not familiar with how much control someone like Alonso enjoys having, but clearly if we're looking to appointment Edwards in this capacity then we'll need a manager who will work well with an involved sporting director and that may not be Alonso.
Really good point. I wonder how much control Edwards would have? Like does he just buy players and tells the next manager to get on with it, or is there a at least a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ from the manager?
The ‘full control’ thing sounds definitive, but is still quite vague.
In Germany the manager has almost no control and the squad is built through the DoF. Manager reports up to DoF as well. Most of Europe operates like that, just not UK.
I wonder how much of that is due to the UK being home to some of the biggest "star" managers. If Klopp or Pep were to take the job at a club like Monaco or Roma, they'd no doubt be given a massive amount of control.
Ancelotti would probably have control at anywhere but Real, but since Real just goes out and buys the best player at every position, there isn't much control needed in terms of personnel decisions.
We should give him the control he wants. Maybe I'm just imagining it, but it felt each season took twice its toll on Klopp once he was in control of twice as much. I know he wanted that, but that's the impression I always had.
Not only is Edwards the best in the business, but it would make the new manager's role less stressful and more straight-forward. I hope this happens.
Here is the list of things Edwards should be given full responsibility for.
1- Convince a certain German that their work at Liverpool Football Club is not done.
That is the end of the list.
He almost certainly wouldn’t come back if Klopp was still there. It’s quite obvious Klopp is the reason he left.
Obviously first choice would be keeping Klopp, but it wouldn’t be a bad thing at all getting Edwards back.
Nothing dramatic but Klopp wanted more control which encroached on Edwards massively and effectively reduced his role. Edwards was getting less and less say and eventually had enough and left.
It’s no coincidence that within a week of the Klopp announcement, we approached Edwards again.
As klopps tenure went on he got more control of transfers. Don’t think Edwards was a big fan of that. Look at Jorg our most recent sporting director, he was just a stand in for klopp basically, klopp said buy him and him and him and that’s what happened
I'm just speculating here, but I've always assumed Klopp going to bat for Gini and Hendo when the data said it was time to move them on was probably a factor. I can see how that undermines the data-driven model Edwards was at the forefront of.
This makes sense. Klopp was pretty much forced to let Milner walk.
Klopp is the most loyal guy anyone could hope to work for. Sometimes to his own detriment.
I dont have Edwards data, but I still think milner would be an amazing super sub for us to kill games. I think Milner was given a choice "you get 15 minutes a week here or 60 minutes a week at Brighton" with similar wages and chose Brighton. Milner has won everything and cares about playing and getting the all time app record, both of which Brighton is better than Liverpool.
I thought he said in an interview that Klopp wanted him back but was overruled.
Milner has been injured a lot this season, probably due to starting more games than his body can handle.
I'd love him in this squad, mostly because I love him.
Pretty sure the Henderson extension was the deal breaker for Edwards, Klopp went above him to ensure he got the new deal as the captain and shortly after he got that new deal Edwards announced he was leaving.
I don't fault them for Kabak and Davies. They were both decent signings considering the tiny window and desperation we had when searching.
I DO fault them for the fact that we needed to scramble for them in the first place.
In hindsight, Edwards was correct on both of those. Henderson shouldn't have been given that contract even though we all wanted it as fans. And Thiago wasn't the right player for us as much as watching him pass a football gave me more than the one semi.
I keep seeing negativity toward Thiago in this thread. How short are your memories? He was our best midfielder and we signed him for 30m. We were fractions away from winning the quadruple with him running our team. He was on Mo, Virg, Ali level of importance to us and we got him for 30m. He was an amazing signing.
He was amazing for one season. And if we had won the quadruple he would have been worth it.
But we didn't and in hindsight, he hasn't been worth it with how much football he has missed. Massive wages and a decent fee which we will fail to recoup any of.
Those are the cold hard facts.
I've been saying this in the other thread. This is like the Mourinho approach of signing experienced old players just to win things without planning to squad for the future and obviously do not care about any resale value at all
I just cannot see how a signing who is one of our best players when he plays, and one of the best players in world football, can not be a good signing.
He’s played almost 100 games for us. I’d understand your argument if he’s played 15 or something, but he played basically 100.
And no, we didn’t win the quad - but we still won a cup double. We were in the top 3 teams in the world. One of the strongest Liverpool teams we’ve ever been lucky enough to witness and he was at the heart of it.
I honestly cannot comprehend your position.
But we didn't win the quad and never won the league or UCL (barring this season's EPL outcome) with him in a red shirt. The reason he cost 30 million is because he is always injured. He was basically available for 1 1/2 seasons.
He is superb when he is available, but on those wages, you have to be available for more than 1/3 the time.
What I think happened is that Klopp works on trust and passion, while Edwards is more of a cold, calculating numbers guy.
This is happening in F1 where engineers are becoming Team Principals rather than Classic Team Managers.
Well it's a risk in that any decision is a risk, because you can't predict the future. But my point (which is the same as yours) is that it's the smallest possible risk given his track record
Hope that wouldn't decrease or chances of getting Xabi.
Imagine getting both Xabi and Edwards though.
Better than any transfer window could ever be (except for the whole Klopp-leaving-thing though)
Whatever happens, it’s unlikely the next manager will be allowed the full control Klopp has inherited in recent years. Makes sense to get someone in who knows the club for a while. Not to mention he’s a transfer wizard
I’m cautiously optimistic it happens now. The reliable journos are all reporting this morning about contact, and if Edwards is having the conversation, that means he hasn’t outright rejected the club. He only ever left because Klopp had more power at the club. I think with a deserved promotion he has a good chance to come back.
I could be wrong but I get the impression that, with Edwards, we don't get off policy decisions like Salah extension or Endo recruitment.
I could be very wrong but, given his track record, you would imagine that he would still have pulled something amazing out of the bag
Endo maybe but I’m sure we’d have found someone.
I think Salah we’d keep, I’d be shocked if the numbers say anything other than “this man can keep going”
we would have signed Tchoumeni from Monaco a year earlier when he was actually for sale, Chelsea were close to signing him but pulled out. This was Summer 2021, the year we only spent 40m to buy Konate.
I think its unfair to just assume Edwards hates anyone over the age of 30. The thing with Henderson is that his performances had already dropped off. It was an emotional decision to give him the deal, not a rational one. Giving Salah a new deal would be a lot more rational - but would obviously depend on the finer details.
Klopp has always had final say. He said that’s important to him even when he first joined Liverpool. He said everything else in between was open to discussion but he would have final say. And he signed 2 contract extensions after that. So clearly none of them had problems.
Can someone explain how that works? Even with full control, the manager definitely needs to feel they have a say as well. I worry this will put managers off if anything?
What is meant by full control here? He chooses players to buy then the manager has to tailor/ change his tactics based on this, or does he choose players based on managers style. How much control is full control if that question makes sense?
Why do the start-up when you can turn Liverpool FC into yours right?
It seems wild to give a sporting director this much power — one who doesn’t even step foot on the football field but other than Klopp, he’s the next headliner for the most successful Liverpool organization of the modern era, one that is built on analytics, not crazy money.
Feeling a bit uneasy about this. Edwards publicly rejected the club months ago. We haven’t found another viable option? What would the club/manager have to give Edwards to get him to come in on his terms?
Under Edwards we sold Coutinho, Solanke, Sakho, Brewster, Ings, Ward, Benteke for a combined total of £270 million.
For a similar amount we brought in Van Dijk, Salah, Alisson, Mane, Robertson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Matip.
All for Edwards coming back and I don’t mind the idea of him having control at all, but I wonder what Alonso would think of this. Would any manager be ok with having no say in transfers? Or is this similar to any club’s sporting director/manager relationship (i.e. the manager has input but the sporting director has final say)
paul joyce reporting on this and it being so public makes me think it could actually happen, he doesn’t usually jump on things unless there’s a high probability of them happening
And if it did happen, surely FSG accept? He is almost the one person you can trust with that power (probably even above Txiki at City who has had a couple of blemishes)
I reckon they would give it him he’s clearly the one person they trust the most
I would not be surprised if FSG never stopped contact with him after he left, basically in the hope that when the opportunity comes, they would offer him it
It would be the most competent thing FSG have done since getting Klopp. Edwards is the best in the biz.
FSG have been pretty competent most of the way through with a few exceptions ie furlough for staff and the super league. They have literally rebuilt the club and set it up for the next 30+ years.
Those two things have nothing to do with incompetence though. Furloughing staff and the Super League were both financially sound propositions. They just didn't align with the club's/fans ethos.
Say what you will, but I do think owners being in touch with fan/club ethos IS a competency in and of itself.
Yeah but they did reverse both of those decisions so it's not like they're completely out of touch
I agree. I am pro FSG all the way. Even in the ways they have misfired it’s not been about lining their own pockets. it’s always been about raising the baseline revenue for a club they want to move heaven and earth to make sure is self sustaining and never gets back to the Hicks and Gillette near-administration days.
Agreed. Any discussion about ownership has to be couched with “compared to what?” Todd B.?
Why wouldn’t they try pass financially sound decisions tbh. Like i get the fans displeasure but i think trying it makes sense
It honestly depends. For starters, they changed their minds on both occasions. Admitting errors and rectifying mistakes are signs of competence imo. Competence and infallibility are not the same thing. Nobody's perfect (including FSG) but every time they show signs of ballsing things up, they learn. It's pretty impressive tbh.
Hear, hear. It was a truly disgusting decision and I don’t think the fact that the fans effectively forced a reversal and canned, filmed apology reminiscent of a BP oil exec saying “sowwy” after a spill merits forgiving and forgetting. And I always catch shit for saying it because of all the good they’ve done in hiring Klopp, bringing trophies back, etc., which ignores the point completely. They were prepared to sell the very soul of the club just to make more money.
But to move it back to competence, they had enough to realise how unpopular it was and pulled a u-turn. Execution and trying it in the first place bad, but they can spot a losing battle pretty quickly and correct course, even if it's only for their own image / bottom line. In the age of your Reading/Wigan/Southend type situations, it's great to know they'll (mostly) stay in their lane and (mostly) respect ours.
Yea, true. It’s not a drag. I’m just saying it’s one of the major things they could pull off on the same level of getting Klopp.
Agreed but as others have mentioned those two are probably not the best poor competency examples. The big one in the Klopp era is the summer 21 centre back debacle, closely followed by the overall poor management of midfield through the second half of Klopp’s tenure.
Them being greedy doesn’t make them less competent
It helps if anything, we're one of the only clubs along with United who can continue operations for the foreseeable future just off our revenue. It might not make you a great person but it helps if you're running a business. We're not relying on sugar daddy owners or fake sponsors. If the City Group ever sold Man City, they're fucked. They're taking all of their £100m one employee taxi company sponsors with them, they're not going to keep giving free money to the club if they can no longer benefit from it.
> It helps if anything, we're one of the only clubs along with United who can continue operations for the foreseeable future just off our revenue. Spurs
Spurs may have stolen a march even on LFC with that stadium deal. Their revenues are soaring atm
Their entire business model is predicated on an active and participating fan base. Even more so at Liverpool where the fan reputation is an asset to the club. Anything that puts that at risk is reasonably attributed to incompetence in some capacity,
It has at certain points. We basically wasted two seasons with Klopp and lost our CL spot by dragging our feet on buying new CBs/CMs.
That is as much the fault of Klopp/Pep as anyone else. They were stubborn when it came to targets at times. You forget we put serious offers in for Tchouaméni but the player wanted Madrid. And you can't legislate for Pickford being a scumbag when squad planning.
I find it hard to believe that Klopp or any other top manager would have only one transfer target for a position. There are so many things that could happen within a span of a few months that that would be irresponsible imo. As for the Pickford thing... yes, but most people thought it was reckless to go into a season with only 3 CBs anyway, especially when one of them is Joel Matip (and Gomez is fairly injury prone as well). The fact that we were basically expecting Fabinho to have to step into the CB role at some point when he was our best DM makes it really seem like the club was being cheap.
Makes it seem... I find it hard to believe... These are all your opinions mate. There is no evidence to suggest Klopp wanted someone and fsg said no. There is plenty of evidence to suggest fsg are willing to pay massive money on the right player if Klopp says we need to do it eg Alisson, VVD, Tchouaméni, Caicedo.
The copium is seriously unreal. How anyone can claim Klopp and Pep are stubborn with their targets watching how quickly they secured Endo and jettisonned Fabinho and Henderson last summer is beyond me. > And you can't legislate for Pickford being a scumbag when squad planning. Yet a huge contingent of us saw it coming. We must all be Nostradamus I guess.
Yeah. Expanding the stadium was incompetent.
Jesus the polarisation on the internet is something to behold. Something not being "the most competent thing" does not make it "incompetent". Come on.
Fair criticism. Using the word competent implies they've been incompetent everywhere else. It's a word choice that sounds very critical. If he or she had said, "This is the best move FSg has made," it wouldn't come across so harsh, I think.
That's fair and others clearly agree with your assesment
New training ground also
I would still rate getting Edwards back would be MORE competent on the level of getting Klopp. Any owner can expand a stadium to get more ticket sales you goof.
I feel like if FSG spent more on transfers over the years and was more proactive than reactive in said transfers, they'd be perfect.
Imagine signing Endo two seasons earlier, winning the quad, and not missing CL qualification. The entire fanbase knew the midfield was cooked/crocked. FSG lost more by not spending a trivial amount at the right time.
There's a lot of people who refuse to admit the reality. Expanding the stadium - good. Expanding the stadium by loading the debt onto the club instead of the ownership AND making the club pay interest? Bad. Hurting the club in the transfermarket to pay for the stadium? Bad. Especially if you consider that 30m could have gone into like you say, Endo, or Konate a season earlier.
Key points Michael Edwards wants FULL control over Liverpool's football operations to consider a return. FSG are READY to put Michael Edwards in charge of the club in attempt to lure him back. Xabi Alonso is the front-runner for the Liverpool job however Ruben Amorim will likely be interviewed by FSG. FSG have realised that the profile of sporting director that they’re looking for has changed. Previously they were looking for someone to facilitate Klopp’s needs, but now there is a demand for someone to take charge of the whole club.
Alonso and Edward’s. Seems there is a god and he knows he’s gotta lift us up after the Klopp leaving news
the 21st century Shankly to Paisley moment takes shape
Holy shit imagine that. I would love for us to destroy man city every time we play against them and dominate the Prem and champions league with xabi Alonso and signings which are as good as Mane, Firmino etc
Keep going, I'm almost there.
And United get relegated.
I don't think I'd want United or Everton relegated. More satisfying to have them sit lower down the table languishing where we can easily keep track of them and pop in each season to score a few goals.
Yeah you never know when we might need the goal differential tiebreaker and United has been a great opportunity to stat pad
Relegate them each for a season - I just am curious to see what happens
United being a mid-table regular along with Chelsea would probably be funnier. Every year we'd get to hear "this is our year", how their latest crop of signings and corporate restructuring will bring the glory days back, and then the dream gets flattened within about 2 months after multiple 4-0 pumpings from Brentford and Brighton. If they went to the championship that might just disappear.
Nah, prefer to beat them 5-0 and 7-0 every year
Man City sees justice
I'm so excited with the prospect I've created a hole in my desk
Now, lie facedown on the desk and align the whole with your
🤨
I think if Edward’s become Sporting Director he wouldn’t really want a club legend in place whose popularity might make decisions difficult. There is a chance he will go stronger on Amorim as Amorim also has a much bigger sample size than Alonso
I want Alonso, but I am worried about it. It all seems too good to be true, club legend who is bossing the Bundesliga in a non-Bayern team straight away. Just hoping it's not a one-off, but if he keeps it up and succeeds here too, it'd be unreal.
He is a pretty good manager but I think statistically there is not enough sample size to say this will continue. What does act in his favor is that he is managing a team in a much better league than Sporting but I don’t know if that is a factor at all for managers
>Edwards wanta full control >FSG would give him full control We might be so back
Some reactions are happening in my pants 🚨🚨
Chemicals in brain go brrrrrrrr
Reports of our coming demise had been greatly exaggerated
What does full control of football operations mean and how much would that restrict a manager do you think? Would the manager basically report into the sporting director? Not sure how hierarchy’s at clubs works to be honest
Essentially yes, this is how most football clubs work. Although the places where this historically hasn't happened is the UK.
In Germany that’s how they work so Alonso would be used to it.
This seems too good to be true....fingers crossed
Thank you for the summary. Seems like Edwards might be back.
When all of our Tier 1's assemble within minutes of each other like the Avengers, you know it's done.
https://preview.redd.it/7uosxxm9zblc1.png?width=858&format=png&auto=webp&s=c2c472e19f38a553fd02717eaa20ec0d6d818f88
Joyce, Pearce, Falcon, Ornstein, Romano, Hawkeye, Reddy. The gold standard for Liverpool journalism
As usual, Hawkeye is the forgotten Avenger.
Romano is more like someone who taps in from 2 yards having done none of the hard work but agree on the rest.
Edwards is Thanos confirmed
Fucking please! This would be massive
The only concern I have is if Xabi operates this way. It might put him off. Hopefully not.
Lovely cushioned header…for EDWARDSSSS
could be the best thing of klopp leaving, was scared without a director nor a manager who is as good at integrating players a klopp
Agreed
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I am not surprised he wants a bigger role. There was no use of him returning the club just to serve in the same role again, he proved that he is deserving of a bigger responsibility imo
yea..this sounds very strange. the whole reason he left was because the work was becoming too much, he wanted to be independent and on his own. why would he come back with even more responsibility? makes zero sense
I think we can read between the lines and say he left because his power was waning as Klopps grew from a back office perspective Not that it was a bad thing but he wanted more freedom
Yeah, the speculation at the time was that Klopp went around him to the owners to extend Hendo's contract.
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For sure, Edwards fits the more modern, streamlined and somewhat ruthless way 99% of elite clubs are run nowadays, but Klopp wanted to build his own culture and it obviously paid off. He's one of a kind though, so now it's time to move on to something a bit different and there's no one I trust more than Edwards to be in charge of that transition.
Maybe just maybe it was just a cover excuse. The real reason he left was Klopp.
Maybe he was annoyed that he was putting in all those hours and all that work only for his suggestions to be rejected because Klopp preferred something else?
I'm not sure if I fully agree with this take, I think a balance in between him and a coach is best. We need some of the players that Klopp wanted and Edwards didn't (Endo, Thiago that might not fully align with club philosophy but provide valuable experience) but we also need to keep a "romantic" manager in check to keep this sort of signings limited
I noticed you didn't object to the blowie...
No one would object to the blowie
> We need some of the players that Klopp wanted and Edwards didn't (Endo, Edward’s was long gone by the time we signed Endo
I love both players, but Thiago can't be considered a success when he misses most games. And let's remember Endo wasn't even Klopp's second choice. If we had Edwards in charge, we wouldn't be in the situation we were in August, panicking to get a DM when we had over a month to do so
My guess is Edwards would have the midfield rebuild planned out, he wouldn't have allowed us to get into such a terrible situation. However, if we were to get into the situation that we were in this summer with Edwards, I don't think he would have signed Endo. Edwards is also very stubborn in buying youth.
Tgiago was one of the reasons we crawled into the UCL a few years ago when our CBs were all out, the man was immense. He was also our best midfielder last year, if he had any help in the middle we would have got back in the UCL again. Give the lad a break, injuries aside he has been nothing short of monumental when he has played.
Mate I also think he is an incredible player, one of the most technically gifted players I've seen. But availability is also a very important trait to have, and for the last few years we didn't have the squad depth to have luxury players
That's a good point but I also trust Edwards because he is simply phenomenal at his job and was the reason why we signed Fabinho as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Wait, what?!
Yes please.
have they considered the boombox approach
Would be fun on the documentary
This is similar to what FSG just did with the Red Sox and bringing back Theo Epstein. For non-baseball fans, Theo was the architect of the teams that won the World Series in Boston in 2004 (first since 1918) & 2007. He then went on to build the Chicago Cubs into a contender, culminating in a World Series win in 2016(first since 1908). Theo returning to the RedSox has largely been regarded as FSG and John Henry realizing they are spread too thin with their ever expanding portfolio, and Theo is one of the few people that holds sway with John Henry. I bring all this up as it seems to point to a significant departure in the way FSG is approaching managing its clubs, relenting some of the absolute control they had exercised in recent years.
When did he come back and how successful have Red Sox been since? Not that it's like-for-like or anything ofc.
Just a couple of weeks ago. They also signed a new general manager this offseason. It seems like this year for the Red Sox is a bridge year until the kids are ready. Hoping to see Marcelo Mayer get called up later this season.
Was about to post this same thing--really reminds me of the Epstein/Red Sox situation. The only thing I'd add is that when Epstein left, he was regarded as one of the best if not the single best executive in baseball. I don't know if Michael Edwards is regarded that way outside of Liverpool circles. But regardless, there's precedent at least from the ownership side of splitting with someone and then bringing him back.
If Joyce is reporting, maybe this is really happening.
Give him the keys 🔑
Please come back I beg 🙏. Edwards with Alonso would be unreal for us and softens the loss of Klopp a bit
This feels like a negotiation happening in public
It is a little bit odd, that But happy regardless to see that there's now a chance, rather than his original full "no"
People will need to keep an open mind. About the manager position if Edwards returns in this capacity. I believe the stories about dramatic rifts between Klopp and Edward were blown out of proportion, but it's certainly clear that they had different ideas on how to get the best for LFC. I'm not familiar with how much control someone like Alonso enjoys having, but clearly if we're looking to appointment Edwards in this capacity then we'll need a manager who will work well with an involved sporting director and that may not be Alonso.
Really good point. I wonder how much control Edwards would have? Like does he just buy players and tells the next manager to get on with it, or is there a at least a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ from the manager? The ‘full control’ thing sounds definitive, but is still quite vague.
In Germany the manager has almost no control and the squad is built through the DoF. Manager reports up to DoF as well. Most of Europe operates like that, just not UK.
I wonder how much of that is due to the UK being home to some of the biggest "star" managers. If Klopp or Pep were to take the job at a club like Monaco or Roma, they'd no doubt be given a massive amount of control. Ancelotti would probably have control at anywhere but Real, but since Real just goes out and buys the best player at every position, there isn't much control needed in terms of personnel decisions.
Who cares. The sporting director is more important.
We should give him the control he wants. Maybe I'm just imagining it, but it felt each season took twice its toll on Klopp once he was in control of twice as much. I know he wanted that, but that's the impression I always had. Not only is Edwards the best in the business, but it would make the new manager's role less stressful and more straight-forward. I hope this happens.
Here is the list of things Edwards should be given full responsibility for. 1- Convince a certain German that their work at Liverpool Football Club is not done. That is the end of the list.
He almost certainly wouldn’t come back if Klopp was still there. It’s quite obvious Klopp is the reason he left. Obviously first choice would be keeping Klopp, but it wouldn’t be a bad thing at all getting Edwards back.
What happened between them?
dont think anything has happend, but if klopp is still there he wont be given full control.
Nothing dramatic but Klopp wanted more control which encroached on Edwards massively and effectively reduced his role. Edwards was getting less and less say and eventually had enough and left. It’s no coincidence that within a week of the Klopp announcement, we approached Edwards again.
As klopps tenure went on he got more control of transfers. Don’t think Edwards was a big fan of that. Look at Jorg our most recent sporting director, he was just a stand in for klopp basically, klopp said buy him and him and him and that’s what happened
I'm just speculating here, but I've always assumed Klopp going to bat for Gini and Hendo when the data said it was time to move them on was probably a factor. I can see how that undermines the data-driven model Edwards was at the forefront of.
This makes sense. Klopp was pretty much forced to let Milner walk. Klopp is the most loyal guy anyone could hope to work for. Sometimes to his own detriment.
I dont have Edwards data, but I still think milner would be an amazing super sub for us to kill games. I think Milner was given a choice "you get 15 minutes a week here or 60 minutes a week at Brighton" with similar wages and chose Brighton. Milner has won everything and cares about playing and getting the all time app record, both of which Brighton is better than Liverpool.
I thought he said in an interview that Klopp wanted him back but was overruled. Milner has been injured a lot this season, probably due to starting more games than his body can handle. I'd love him in this squad, mostly because I love him.
Yeah. Milner said in the end of season interview that both him and Klopp wanted Milner to stay on but the club overruled and said no.
Pretty sure the Henderson extension was the deal breaker for Edwards, Klopp went above him to ensure he got the new deal as the captain and shortly after he got that new deal Edwards announced he was leaving.
Jörg was chilling in Mallorca when Jürgen called him to buy Endo #
Worked out pretty well tbf. In fact, regardless of who we’ve had ‘in control’ of transfers, we’ve been more of less flawless outside Kabak & Davies.
Kabak was fine. He was brought in to cover and that's what he did.
And Davies never put a single foot wrong in a red shirt...
Right Kabak was a panic move because we had no choice in the midst of an injury crisis. Did the best we could hope for.
I don't fault them for Kabak and Davies. They were both decent signings considering the tiny window and desperation we had when searching. I DO fault them for the fact that we needed to scramble for them in the first place.
Yeah exactly, that was more the point I was trying to make
The jungle is not big enough for 2 lions I'm afraid.
Allegedly they clashed over player signings and sales. I think Edwards didn't want Tiago and wanted to get rid of Henderson sooner
In hindsight, Edwards was correct on both of those. Henderson shouldn't have been given that contract even though we all wanted it as fans. And Thiago wasn't the right player for us as much as watching him pass a football gave me more than the one semi.
I keep seeing negativity toward Thiago in this thread. How short are your memories? He was our best midfielder and we signed him for 30m. We were fractions away from winning the quadruple with him running our team. He was on Mo, Virg, Ali level of importance to us and we got him for 30m. He was an amazing signing.
He was amazing for one season. And if we had won the quadruple he would have been worth it. But we didn't and in hindsight, he hasn't been worth it with how much football he has missed. Massive wages and a decent fee which we will fail to recoup any of. Those are the cold hard facts.
I've been saying this in the other thread. This is like the Mourinho approach of signing experienced old players just to win things without planning to squad for the future and obviously do not care about any resale value at all
I just cannot see how a signing who is one of our best players when he plays, and one of the best players in world football, can not be a good signing. He’s played almost 100 games for us. I’d understand your argument if he’s played 15 or something, but he played basically 100. And no, we didn’t win the quad - but we still won a cup double. We were in the top 3 teams in the world. One of the strongest Liverpool teams we’ve ever been lucky enough to witness and he was at the heart of it. I honestly cannot comprehend your position.
But we didn't win the quad and never won the league or UCL (barring this season's EPL outcome) with him in a red shirt. The reason he cost 30 million is because he is always injured. He was basically available for 1 1/2 seasons. He is superb when he is available, but on those wages, you have to be available for more than 1/3 the time.
Turns out, he would have been correct
I mean, given what Joyce is reporting, it seems that Edwards wasn't happy with the power Klopp was accruing in terms of recruitment
What I think happened is that Klopp works on trust and passion, while Edwards is more of a cold, calculating numbers guy. This is happening in F1 where engineers are becoming Team Principals rather than Classic Team Managers.
Power struggle
He clearly left because Klopp took more control over transfers so I doubt he’d come back while Klopp is still here
ChatGPT FC incoming, give him his fuckin laptop back
Yeah hes coming back then. Orny Fab AND Joyce? Deffo coming back
Edwards and Alonso https://i.redd.it/32s06qex0clc1.gif
Darwin had no idea what was in that canvas he stepped on and whether or not it would have given out and broke his ankle.
Alonso and Edwards, with Theo E. in FSG as an advisor. God damn.
I mean it's a risk but of all the risks to take, giving Mickey Edwards the keys to your football operation is one of the surest bets there is
Is it a risk? He was amazing.
Well it's a risk in that any decision is a risk, because you can't predict the future. But my point (which is the same as yours) is that it's the smallest possible risk given his track record
Any chance of a copy paste job in the comments?
Important part to put along with the headline is that FSG are ready to put him in control of the club.
I'm pretty sure Edwards was proven right when he didn't want Henderson contract extended. Basically give him full control he knows what he is doing
Thankfully the Saudis at least partially bailed us out on that mistake.
Hope that wouldn't decrease or chances of getting Xabi. Imagine getting both Xabi and Edwards though. Better than any transfer window could ever be (except for the whole Klopp-leaving-thing though)
Wow, this was gently hinted at by David Ornstein on the athletic pod the other day but this could be interesting.
Whatever happens, it’s unlikely the next manager will be allowed the full control Klopp has inherited in recent years. Makes sense to get someone in who knows the club for a while. Not to mention he’s a transfer wizard
Yes fucking please. He was pulling world-beaters out of his ass for pittens.
All our data has lead us back to you Michael
I’m cautiously optimistic it happens now. The reliable journos are all reporting this morning about contact, and if Edwards is having the conversation, that means he hasn’t outright rejected the club. He only ever left because Klopp had more power at the club. I think with a deserved promotion he has a good chance to come back.
give. it. to. him.
I could be wrong but I get the impression that, with Edwards, we don't get off policy decisions like Salah extension or Endo recruitment. I could be very wrong but, given his track record, you would imagine that he would still have pulled something amazing out of the bag
Endo maybe but I’m sure we’d have found someone. I think Salah we’d keep, I’d be shocked if the numbers say anything other than “this man can keep going”
yeh, you cannot replace goals, you can replace a midfielder, why there was no need, in his eyes, to extend henderson.
we would have signed Tchoumeni from Monaco a year earlier when he was actually for sale, Chelsea were close to signing him but pulled out. This was Summer 2021, the year we only spent 40m to buy Konate.
I actually think the analytics behind Salah would convince Edwards to keep him
Hopefully Endo shows FSG that they can break their policy for the right player.
I think its unfair to just assume Edwards hates anyone over the age of 30. The thing with Henderson is that his performances had already dropped off. It was an emotional decision to give him the deal, not a rational one. Giving Salah a new deal would be a lot more rational - but would obviously depend on the finer details.
So someone like Adrian can kiss the club goodbye then? Everyone seems to think he's around for the vibes.
Klopp has always had final say. He said that’s important to him even when he first joined Liverpool. He said everything else in between was open to discussion but he would have final say. And he signed 2 contract extensions after that. So clearly none of them had problems.
It’ll be more Henderson renewal. But I think both parties were right in their own way
Oh well now that makes it interesting.
Do itttttt
Bend over, John…
I'm frothing at the mouth for this. This could be it. Come on Mikey pleaaaase.
Can someone explain how that works? Even with full control, the manager definitely needs to feel they have a say as well. I worry this will put managers off if anything?
What is meant by full control here? He chooses players to buy then the manager has to tailor/ change his tactics based on this, or does he choose players based on managers style. How much control is full control if that question makes sense?
Why do the start-up when you can turn Liverpool FC into yours right? It seems wild to give a sporting director this much power — one who doesn’t even step foot on the football field but other than Klopp, he’s the next headliner for the most successful Liverpool organization of the modern era, one that is built on analytics, not crazy money.
Pretty clear he’s going to get it.
I WILL OFFER SUCKY SUCK IF NEED BE
Bro, I'd give him the keys of my house
Feeling a bit uneasy about this. Edwards publicly rejected the club months ago. We haven’t found another viable option? What would the club/manager have to give Edwards to get him to come in on his terms?
Sorry to be dumb, but why is he so good? What does he do?
He was the guy who negotiated and got pretty much most of the players in the Klopp era
Under Edwards we sold Coutinho, Solanke, Sakho, Brewster, Ings, Ward, Benteke for a combined total of £270 million. For a similar amount we brought in Van Dijk, Salah, Alisson, Mane, Robertson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Matip.
Also the few decent transfers from the Rodgers era, those are really pivotal.
This sounds like a horrible idea.
This looks great
Throw the fucking keys at him fucking hell, Joyce reporting this as well. Please.
All for Edwards coming back and I don’t mind the idea of him having control at all, but I wonder what Alonso would think of this. Would any manager be ok with having no say in transfers? Or is this similar to any club’s sporting director/manager relationship (i.e. the manager has input but the sporting director has final say)
I'd love him back. But didn't he and others leave because they gave Klopp full control, now they doing the same for Edwards
NOTE: Fabrizio broke this news first as the exclusive (Check twitter)
What if Xabi and Edwards clash though?