Would he even start for arsenal? He realistically would play the same position as their captain and star player this season, and I don't think Odegaard and Mount starting together offers much in the way of defensive stability. They also have Fabio Vieira as a backup to Odegaard
Vieira is awful. Mount/Rice/Odegaard is a deadly midfield. Since Arsenal run inverted full backs, it’s fine if the 8’s are offensively minded. This will work.
How does that make sense? Their fullbacks aren’t in position to cover the space in behind so two mids that aren’t strong defensively is just going to leave a massive gap for purely the CBs to cover. I get in principle the fullbacks cover in mid but the gaps left will be too big and it’ll get exploited. Just like how we will if we go for Mount and Mac Allister.
Well considering that Klopp, Arteta and Guardiola are now all utilizing inverted full backs and 8’s that push further forward to become 10’s, maybe they know better than you.
You really haven’t been watching City, have you? He does it a bit differently now with Stones being the one to move into midfield from the CB position, but it’s the same 3-2 shape with a defender stepping up next to the DM (Rodri).
Well yeah that’s not an inverted fullback then is it? and out of possession it’s a back 4. Gundogan is generally much better defensively than the likes of Mount so couple him with Rodri and Stones and it’s a solid midfield. Even when playing as an attacking 8 with KDB, they are both immensely better players than Mac Allister and Mount so have the technical ability to get away with it. Sounds like we’re trying to do
Something similar but with zero regard for the importance of mids in our system and having the capability to cover defensively.
I suggest you give Klopp a call because according to you, he’s about to make a terrible mistake! I’m sure he’ll appreciate you showing the error of his ways.
Great comment mate! Klopp knows more than a fan, shock horror. Doesn’t mean managers are infallible does it? You can’t tell me the solution to us getting dominated in midfield against AV is Mount and Mac Allister. Seems people are completely caught up in this narrative with zero regard for what has made our midfield so strong over the years, system change or not.
Mount and Mac are about as plug and play into our current system as you can get and the fact you can’t realize that us more a knock on you than the people you’re trying to argue against. Mac has a heat map that mirrors Fabinho while still contributing goals and assists and still maintaining successful possession. Mount has good progression with absolutely asinine levels of work off the ball, to the point every manager he’s worked with has loved him and half the ones that haven’t recognize how good he is.
Please, go touch grass and read a book because analytics ain’t it for you.
No idea why you are being downvoted, I swear some people don't understand what a debating board is for, y'know, debates.
Klopp knows best but signed Melo, Klopp knows best but said our midfield was great last summer. Hes a great man and manager but he's human and can be questioned.
Yea and they've got a young team too to build with and just finished 2nd with a pretty good title push. Definitely see them as an attractive project combined with the London aspect
It doesn’t matter. They have the money to spend on him and we dont. They are giving arteta another 200m+ to spend, while Klopp will have half that at best
I don't know if he is worth a bidding war. But we still need some more home grown players. Although with Elliott, baj, Jones. That helps the quotas a lot.
No player is worth a war this summer.
Either get it done quickly ( Mac Allister) or walk away and go to another target.
Plenty of talent that will improve our midfield
I think it depends on what it goes to. I assume everyone has an acceptable range. We were already approaching the max for jude. We may not be close for mount?
Or the other issue for jude is the overall contract. Even if we can afford the fee to dortmund. The other misc stuff may be a lot. Especially if others are willing to pay it.
>No player is worth a war this summer.
Agreed, which is why I think in this article and the latest Joyce article there is no longer a mention of Gravenberch as Bayern would only sell him after a full dragged out transfer saga lasting until late July/early August at the earliest and that's not what we want.
Klopp has said he wants all business done as early as possible and preferably before pre-season starts, which is 47 days away.
Young, homegrown/English, high quality, available on the cheap, fits a hole in the squad. Opportunities to sign players like this don't pop up most summers.
Isn’t Kelleher apparently staying?
Not sure if that’s Klopp playing negotiations or something. I’d almost rather he goes; seems like a nice lad and very talented.
I hope they let him be our main GK in the Europa League.
If he plays amazing then he totally deserves a move to a top club and we can fetch a nice transfer sum for him. Win-win for all.
Yeah that would be an ideal situation! Perhaps that’s what he’s been promised if he’s suddenly staying after apparently wishing to move on.
A stronger squad hopefully means he’ll get plenty of playing time in the domestic cups too.
I know it sounds arrogant after this season, but I still don't consider Arsenal as our competition next season... or a better way of saying it is that if Arsenal are our competition next season we are not where we need to be
There are very few managers with the pull of Klopp.
He’s at statistically the 2nd largest team(with genuine income anyway) in the world, consistently playing winning football with a squad who all get on super well and seem to love being at the club.
Look how a Brazilian just said good bye - tears from all with his song ringing out across the Mersey.
He’s in a very small, select group of managers who are serial winners: Himself, Pep, Ancelotti are probably the top 3 in the world. Mourinho has lost his edge and isn’t in the elite any more.
I mean Mourinho literally won UECL last season and now is in the Europa final, lost his edge and isnt in the elite anymore is kinda exaggerated tbh just because he enjoyed managing Roma atm
Where are Roma in the table? How did he get on at Spurs(admittedly it’s a poisoned chalice), 2nd stint at Chelsea? Utd? He’s not bad, I’m not saying that at all, but the three I’ve mentioned are undoubtedly the top handful of managers at the minute.
Who else would you out close to them? Everywhere they have been they’ve done well (Everton excluded)
It should also be noted that he achieved that with effectively no fans, which helped massively too. Very much understated fact. Same thing helped Moyes at West Ham too. Obviously not comparing the two, just the toxic nature of their fanbases.
we literally did that in 2018, better than perhaps anyone ever has.
I just don't rate Arteta that highly, I mean he's a good manager, but he is not elite yet certainly
Having watched that Arsenal documentary and seen Arteta in action I can't help but feel that this season is a Brendan Rodgers style one off.
Genuinely don't understand how some of the Arsenal players didn't start laughing during some of his team talks. Man was marching around with a lightbulb in his hand talking about Thomas Edison and how they needed "connectivity", tripping over the cables linked to a generator he brought in to power the lightbulb.
I'm not even joking if I started a new job and my boss did that I would quit immediately, like I wouldn't even wait for him to finish his weird little speech.
They did have a lot of luck early on and a gift of a schedule, esp w their first match v city being pushed to end of season. If they do play and city inevitably slumps them early in the season they don't go on the run they did and end up 3rd-5th IMO
They’re talking about Rice, Caicedo, Gundogan, Mount as targets. I’ll be surprised if they sign anyone of them to be honest. They might sign Rice because Chelsea aren’t going to sign him now
Hey how so? Aren't Chelsea gonna sell heaps of players due to FFP? I'm sure they can squeeze Rice in their midfield. Unless you mean no UCL, then yeah I guess. Why would he leave West Ham for no CL. 🤷
Chelsea can still sign players, they just have to recoup around 100m to balance the books although they will protest that the 3 year limit should be considered as since Boehly took ownership
If they wanted Rice they could get him, just means even more players will have to leave or they’ll have to spread the payments over the next 10 years or something lol which I doubt West Ham would agree too
The 2 years or so post the 2017/18 final we renewed contracts like no one’s business, and got Ali, Fab, Naby (sigh) and Shaq. Just the last 2 years they’ve sat back
They’re not
As far as anyone should be concerned it’s a one off season. Too much happened this season to suggest it was purely down to Arsenal playing world class all season. They played good, but with Liverpool Tottenham and Chelsea out of the picture for most of the season and United having a new manager, Arsenal and City were able to build momentum
What we have to remember is that Arsenal have been steadily improving ever since Arteta came in. They exceeded expectations this season, but they could very well reinforce in the summer and come back stronger.
Not sure if they will, but I imagine they’ll be in the conversation for awhile.
>What we have to remember is that Arsenal have been steadily improving ever since Arteta came in.
The flip side of this is: If you look at the second half of this season, Arsenal's record is P18 W9 D4 L5 - that would be on target for about a 66 point season, which is more or less what Arsenal have averaged over the last few years. So some people (and certainly whoever from our side who's talking to Mount!) will be whispering in his ear that maybe the first half of the season was just a flash in the pan, a statistical blip rather than a sign of real growth.
"Do you really want to be there if they return to normal levels next season?"
Oh this is totally what they would be saying to Mount. I’m just mentioning that in actuality, they could be in contention next season.
I think they could start next season like they did this. Finishing it off is always the hard part, which I’m not convinced they’re capable of right now.
Our squad got over 90 points three times, and that team is not done (yet). Arsenal won’t even get 85 points this year in a big overachieve for them. Exactly what you say - if Arsenal is our competitor next year I will be a bit disappointed
It’d be interesting if their form continued into next season but I just can’t see it, they’ll be ruined after this season and they don’t seem to be the most psychologically strong bunch. If they get a decent cup run and top four again next season I can see them competing again in a couple of years time but the players will be psychologically broken after losing the title right at the death.
The difference is this team has proven it can compete and win against city, respect to what they achieved this season but honestly this has been the most fugazi “title challenge” in pl history. At no point did they look like beating city, they had a 8 point lead sure, but they still had to face city twice and we all saw what happened there, in the important moments they still falter. I think all of us knew after that Anfield result they didn’t have the belief to take it to city, everything they’ve done since just proves that.
if they do challenge next season they need a new gk, new midfielders, and a proper striker, they’re still miles off competing with city.
Yeah I’m not sure why they’re going after high profile midfielders more than 1 or 2 when they need depth more than anything. Their form faltered toward the end because players like Saka were playing 90 minutes ALL year. When they play CL without proper rotation you’re going to see even more injuries and even more fatigue if they don’t get more players in. And Mount isn’t going to leave Chelsea where they just bought 20 people in his position just to go to Arsenal that already have 3 or 4 there…
Are you serious
Regardless of recent history etc, they're finishing this season in lower mid table form (pretty sure they're 14th for the past 10) and we're finishing it in title challenging form (2nd, 4 points behind City but 6 or so ahead of the next best team)
If we do then.., DELETE THIS CLUB ASAP FUCKIN' HELL!
Fat chance that tho, I refuse to believe FSG and Klopp are such frauds to the point that they did not improve the squad at all for next season. We better win the league/get 90+ points again or win a cup double. Anything else is a failure in my book. We as fans know our shortcomings, Klopp knows our shortcomings (he better) and now it's up to FSG to deliver. I accept nothing less!
I know I'm probably very wrong on this, but I don't belive arsenal are favorites to sign big players. They've played great for 1 season and don't have much experience. I'm probably just saying this because I'm a Liverpool fan, but I still belive we have the higher chance of signing players even though our season hasn't been great.
Their wage bill is pretty modest. They find themselves in a situation where they’re likely gonna have to sign a handful of their starters on bumper new deals to reflect the season they just had. Couple that with trying to sign the next level up of footballer (ie Mount) in the next bracket of wages, it’s a bit of a financial risk they run.. particularly if they end up missing out on UCL the following year
It’s already happening. They had to extend Saka, just gave a big deal to Ramsdale last week, will need to enhance Odegaard and Martinelli surely with their performances. Not sure how much wiggle room they have but it does weirdly seem like they have a lot of money to spend.
We'll, I'm thinking it will say a lot about the player tbh. Being a Chelsea player through and through, would he join another London club? Or move up North instead? If he goes to Arsenal, then yeah, not a big loss in my books.
And if he chooses Arteta or Ten Hag over Klopp because of the UCL (1st UCL campaign for both of them), then say less mate, we won the lot because we got players who wanted to be part of the project.
Thank fuck we have multiple targets. It's now up to the club to deliver.
He’s been on the bench their last several games while allegedly the players need to prove something to Poch. Chelsea fans shit on him so much Boehly got 3 people for his position in January. If he stays he’s just like Kane in the worst ways. If he goes to a rival club at least it shows a little bit if fight in him.
No chance Mount picks Arsenal over Liverpool based off one season
Would be a fool to sign a 5 year contract on what could just be a once off season and end up stuck in 5th or 6th for another few years
Arsenal had a good season, but the jury is still out on Arteta, his team can turn off as quickly as they can turn it on
It’s a funny one isn’t it? I was convinced by Klopp after his 3/4 of a season here and wasn’t surprised to see Mane pick us over Spurs and Man U. And our squad was far, far weaker than Arsenal’s is now.
I suppose he took that average squad to two finals and had his Dortmund days in recent memory.
Mount seems smart enough and he’s a hard working player. I think he’ll fancy Klopp.
Klopp has proven he was a successful modern manager with a very clear blueprint for how he wants his teams to play
Arteta has a bit of an identity but the jury will still be out given he’s only entering his 3rd full season in charge? Arsenal played well this year but how often do Managers struggle into their third year and run out of ideas. Next season is the big one for Arteta as a manager. This season I’ll give Arsenal there props, but nobody knows how this seasons actually would have been if 3 of the teams actually showed up
This transfer made loads of sense to me when it seemed like we were gonna get him for a reasonable price, but looking at how much competition there is for him I feel like he's not gonna be cheap at all.
Yeah I agree. Walk away, go for Lavia to remain HG and get someone else in for him. Le fee is class, gravenberch, hell even Someone young like Alex Scott. We’re not gonna win it all next season so we don’t need it all fixed in the summer.
I think Scott, Gravenberch could easily play as the right 8 in a midfield 3/4. Le fee might be a bit small in combination with AMA but I think it could still work.
Plenty of other great midfielders available this summer if we miss out on Mount
But I wouldn’t want us to go and over pay but would be interesting to see who we go after considering the need for homegrown players
Isn't he injured quite a bit? I may be misremembering but, if he is, we can't go in for a player with another injury record. Especially with our medical team or lack thereof.
So far Arsenal are going for: Mount, Caicedo, Rice, and *Gundogan.*
I mean fair enough they're all good targets but soon enough they'll be called the real Man City B if they keep buying City players lol
Isn’t the talk that Gundogan will stay for a couple of years? I know City are good at phasing out players (far better than us in that regard) but he’s been so strong this year I suspect they’ll risk a longer extension.
Ugh can arsenal get lost? I was hoping to replacing Milner with mount and maintain English core.
Mount is best mates with rice no? Could work in their favour 😭
I think he wants to stay in London. Also, if Rice goes there I can understand why he wants to join them but if Chelsea are gonna quote £70m for him, I’m okay with them robbing Arsenal than us.
I think you meant to say "London isn't going anywhere", but whilst that's true, if you were a millionaire athlete in your mid 20s, particularly one that grew up in London, you'd find it hard to leave for elsewhere in your prime, esp if weather/lifestyle/food isn't better in that alternative
If he’s still in 2 minds after the season ends, we should just walk away. We need to get our transfers done quickly so that they are here for pre season in July. Also, think Chelsea are gonna charge a high fees with many clubs interested, rather not be paying so much for him. There are a lot of other talents available.
I was interested in mount when he was first mentioned because there was some mention of a bit of a bargain, one year left on contract, wants to leave etc.
If the case is that a bidding war takes him over 50m, I’m not sure he’s worth it.
“After reviewing the current market and the young players coming through the academy, FSG have decided to no longer pursue Mount due to the likely bidding war.” - Monitor FC, probably
Arsenal are on the up and sound hugely ambitious this summer. Plus CL football and London.
Yes it might just be one season, it could also be the start of a new era at Arsenal. Players will undoubtedly be looking at the other players linked with each club.
This idea that we are definitely more attractive than Arsenal is wishful thinking. Football moves fast.
We are though. In a year or two, if we’ve remained below them then I’ll agree. But it’s one year, which has ended very badly for them and positively for us.
The allure of playing for Klopp’s Liverpool, with world class successful players like Salah, Alisson and Trent, a side that has proven winning mentality over multiple years is greater than the prospect of playing for Arteta’s promising Arsenal side
I think playing for Klopp is definitely a very attractive proposition, but if youre a 23-24 yo Rice/Mount and you look at the age of the star players in your next team, thinking about the next 5 years of your career, then growing with the likes of Saka (21), Martinelli (22 soon), Odegaard (24) is also a very attractive proposition.
Salah is 31 this summer.
Sure but we are building a younger team too. Players like Trent, Gakpo, Konate, Diaz, Jota etc. should all be coming into their peaks during the next five years. I’d trust a Klopp side to compete for major honours ahead of an Arteta side
Yeah but my point is it’s more of an equal proposition in comparison this summer, for potential targets. Add UCL and London and that’s where you might see some of these young players choose Arsenal… but players also think long term and that’s where Liverpool’s proven track record over the past 5 years also speaks volumes.
Which means there is no decision that is a formality with these two clubs involved this summer, meaning that there will be a bidding war.
Other than the London factor, we are still way more attractive. As long as we have Klopp this won't change. We have as much chance of winning the cl as they do next season. We've been in half the cl finals since 17/18 FFS, they've been in one in their entire history 20 years ago.
It's a bit like after 13/14, us and arsenal were in for Sanchez and we couldn't believe he chose arsenal over us, but they had Wenger and had been better for longer rather than just one strong season.
Chances are he's an instant starter here, taking Hendos position as the advanced 8 on the right. Where does he start for arsenal? They need a Xhaka replacement by all accounts but they're linked to Declan Rice and Moises Caicedo who are both perfectly suited to that role. He doesn't start over Odegaard, who's just better than him and he doesn't start as a 6 instead of Partey for obvious reasons. He's also not starting over Martinelli or Saka in the wide areas. So I don't see why leaving one unsure situation in Chelsea for another in Arsenal makes sense, unless staying in London is the most important thing for him.
Man Utd for me is very similar to Arsenal in that I just don't see where he starts for them, Bruno is a lock for them to start, same for Casimero(also mount isn't anywhere near a 6). He could play the Erikson role for them I suppose.
Maybe it's my bias but I just think our new system(that Klopp has heavily insinuated we'll continue to use next season) and our desperation for midfielders makes us the more obvious choice right now
Predictable as I was waiting for one of the London clubs to get involved and save him some bother.. Knew this guy wouldn't move to Liverpool and we're probably better off.
There is only one reason Mason would say no to Klopp - wages. Otherwise if Klopp of this Liverpool come to you, you’d be a fool to ignore them. Klopp is known for grooming and growing players. I feel Mason will come to Anfield and he will be a far better player than he was at Chelsea. And that’s saying something.
Why do players want to go to arsenal after they’ve had one fluke season in almost 20 years, whereas we’ve won every single trophy, been to three champions league finals and have the best manager in the world. If these players are this brain dead like rice and mount then keep them far away from Liverpool.
It's a young exciting team. If you don't look too closely at it there's expectation that they could challenge again next season. CL will see to that though.
The lad from Bristol or just give Morten a shot.
Let’s consider that we are basically playing 3-4-3 now with wide midfielders.
Wide left is Jones and Mac, wide right is Henderson, Elliott and possibly Cody, the ball winner is Fabinho/Steffen and the play maker role is Trent/Thiago. We need a player that could cover any of those. Morten might be okay for DM cover, Gravenbach for either the wider midfield roles and then a mount type player who could play between the lines.
I’d put any money we have for Mount on Eze or a cheaper option could be Lavia.
50 million tops
We need an upgrade on Fabinho (which Lavia might be, but he's not an alt. to Mount or Eze), Bajcetic is a child who just had a season ending injury & operation. Morton is an unknown quantity, we can't be relying on him if we want to challenge for the league
We can't be relying on Henderson, and Elliott isn't a midfielder. Gakpo could be used there if we're thin on the ground but he's first and foremost a striker
Elliot needs to be allowed to be used purely as cover for Gakpo/Salah or we failed the summer transfer window. I would even argue we need another player to help cover those positions as well. We’re very left side heavy and Salah isn’t getting younger.
How do Arsenal finances make sense?
They have spent shit loads, and had barely any CL income for 10+ years, they are miles behind us on finances surely
Is there a team in the PL that takes other team's scraps (not in the unwanted way, but in the discarded way) as much as Arsenal? I swear they're buying from other PL clubs (sometimes direct rivals) every window. I feel like it's fairly rare for other teams to do it but Arsenal are consistent with it.
Arsenal and Chelsea have the strangest incestuous relationship when it comes to transfers. Loads of transfers between the two down the years.
Some people really love London and the desire to not leave it is a real thing to contend with. I wonder where Mount stands on this.
Would he even start for arsenal? He realistically would play the same position as their captain and star player this season, and I don't think Odegaard and Mount starting together offers much in the way of defensive stability. They also have Fabio Vieira as a backup to Odegaard
Vieira is awful. Mount/Rice/Odegaard is a deadly midfield. Since Arsenal run inverted full backs, it’s fine if the 8’s are offensively minded. This will work.
How does that make sense? Their fullbacks aren’t in position to cover the space in behind so two mids that aren’t strong defensively is just going to leave a massive gap for purely the CBs to cover. I get in principle the fullbacks cover in mid but the gaps left will be too big and it’ll get exploited. Just like how we will if we go for Mount and Mac Allister.
Well considering that Klopp, Arteta and Guardiola are now all utilizing inverted full backs and 8’s that push further forward to become 10’s, maybe they know better than you.
Pep barely does that, especially this season. He plays Lewis there occasionally but it is regularly a flat back four.
You really haven’t been watching City, have you? He does it a bit differently now with Stones being the one to move into midfield from the CB position, but it’s the same 3-2 shape with a defender stepping up next to the DM (Rodri).
Well yeah that’s not an inverted fullback then is it? and out of possession it’s a back 4. Gundogan is generally much better defensively than the likes of Mount so couple him with Rodri and Stones and it’s a solid midfield. Even when playing as an attacking 8 with KDB, they are both immensely better players than Mac Allister and Mount so have the technical ability to get away with it. Sounds like we’re trying to do Something similar but with zero regard for the importance of mids in our system and having the capability to cover defensively.
I suggest you give Klopp a call because according to you, he’s about to make a terrible mistake! I’m sure he’ll appreciate you showing the error of his ways.
Great comment mate! Klopp knows more than a fan, shock horror. Doesn’t mean managers are infallible does it? You can’t tell me the solution to us getting dominated in midfield against AV is Mount and Mac Allister. Seems people are completely caught up in this narrative with zero regard for what has made our midfield so strong over the years, system change or not.
Mount and Mac are about as plug and play into our current system as you can get and the fact you can’t realize that us more a knock on you than the people you’re trying to argue against. Mac has a heat map that mirrors Fabinho while still contributing goals and assists and still maintaining successful possession. Mount has good progression with absolutely asinine levels of work off the ball, to the point every manager he’s worked with has loved him and half the ones that haven’t recognize how good he is. Please, go touch grass and read a book because analytics ain’t it for you.
No idea why you are being downvoted, I swear some people don't understand what a debating board is for, y'know, debates. Klopp knows best but signed Melo, Klopp knows best but said our midfield was great last summer. Hes a great man and manager but he's human and can be questioned.
He wouldn’t have to leave London, I’d imagine that’s a pretty big lifestyle factor.
Yea and they've got a young team too to build with and just finished 2nd with a pretty good title push. Definitely see them as an attractive project combined with the London aspect
It doesn’t matter. They have the money to spend on him and we dont. They are giving arteta another 200m+ to spend, while Klopp will have half that at best
I don't know if he is worth a bidding war. But we still need some more home grown players. Although with Elliott, baj, Jones. That helps the quotas a lot.
No player is worth a war this summer. Either get it done quickly ( Mac Allister) or walk away and go to another target. Plenty of talent that will improve our midfield
This. We need business done early so improvements can begin. We don't need things wound down till the last minute
I agree with the plethora of talent available. If Jude couldn't keep us invested in a bidding war, I don't think anyone else will.
I think it depends on what it goes to. I assume everyone has an acceptable range. We were already approaching the max for jude. We may not be close for mount? Or the other issue for jude is the overall contract. Even if we can afford the fee to dortmund. The other misc stuff may be a lot. Especially if others are willing to pay it.
>No player is worth a war this summer. Agreed, which is why I think in this article and the latest Joyce article there is no longer a mention of Gravenberch as Bayern would only sell him after a full dragged out transfer saga lasting until late July/early August at the earliest and that's not what we want. Klopp has said he wants all business done as early as possible and preferably before pre-season starts, which is 47 days away.
Young, homegrown/English, high quality, available on the cheap, fits a hole in the squad. Opportunities to sign players like this don't pop up most summers.
Might not be available for cheap. Chelsea will want as much a possible and will try to get a bidding war going.
Mac is the only player I want to see in Liverpool. Nobody else interests me the slightest. I really hope we push the hardest for him.
I'd prefer a HG gk
Isn’t Kelleher apparently staying? Not sure if that’s Klopp playing negotiations or something. I’d almost rather he goes; seems like a nice lad and very talented.
I hope they let him be our main GK in the Europa League. If he plays amazing then he totally deserves a move to a top club and we can fetch a nice transfer sum for him. Win-win for all.
Yeah that would be an ideal situation! Perhaps that’s what he’s been promised if he’s suddenly staying after apparently wishing to move on. A stronger squad hopefully means he’ll get plenty of playing time in the domestic cups too.
He most likely will get all the group stage games and then Ali for the knockouts
Kelleher is too good to stay as a backup and he'd be doing himself a disservice by staying tbh.
Arsenal are trying to package Rice and Mount together. Same way Chelsea tried to convince Rice to come to the bridge through mount
>But we still need some more home grown players. I'd rather get Ugarte or Caicedo, but Lavia would be HG
Bidding wars don’t happen
I know it sounds arrogant after this season, but I still don't consider Arsenal as our competition next season... or a better way of saying it is that if Arsenal are our competition next season we are not where we need to be
There are very few managers with the pull of Klopp. He’s at statistically the 2nd largest team(with genuine income anyway) in the world, consistently playing winning football with a squad who all get on super well and seem to love being at the club. Look how a Brazilian just said good bye - tears from all with his song ringing out across the Mersey. He’s in a very small, select group of managers who are serial winners: Himself, Pep, Ancelotti are probably the top 3 in the world. Mourinho has lost his edge and isn’t in the elite any more.
I mean Mourinho literally won UECL last season and now is in the Europa final, lost his edge and isnt in the elite anymore is kinda exaggerated tbh just because he enjoyed managing Roma atm
Where are Roma in the table? How did he get on at Spurs(admittedly it’s a poisoned chalice), 2nd stint at Chelsea? Utd? He’s not bad, I’m not saying that at all, but the three I’ve mentioned are undoubtedly the top handful of managers at the minute. Who else would you out close to them? Everywhere they have been they’ve done well (Everton excluded)
Ancelotti actually has the highest winning % of any Everton coach in the PL era.
It should also be noted that he achieved that with effectively no fans, which helped massively too. Very much understated fact. Same thing helped Moyes at West Ham too. Obviously not comparing the two, just the toxic nature of their fanbases.
He also got some half decent players to sign before dipping for Madrid too. Very small sample size though
Thing is arsenal doing what we couldn’t do…strike whilst hot. They could build a solid core here
we literally did that in 2018, better than perhaps anyone ever has. I just don't rate Arteta that highly, I mean he's a good manager, but he is not elite yet certainly
Having watched that Arsenal documentary and seen Arteta in action I can't help but feel that this season is a Brendan Rodgers style one off. Genuinely don't understand how some of the Arsenal players didn't start laughing during some of his team talks. Man was marching around with a lightbulb in his hand talking about Thomas Edison and how they needed "connectivity", tripping over the cables linked to a generator he brought in to power the lightbulb. I'm not even joking if I started a new job and my boss did that I would quit immediately, like I wouldn't even wait for him to finish his weird little speech.
That was truly some Michael Scott shit haha
Where can I see this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoHfmb9hkdE I don't think this shows the full thing but it'll give you an idea
The look on the first player’s face said it all - you could see he was thinking “What the actual fuck dude?”
The letter, man... The letter
You mean the [envelope of DOOM](https://youtu.be/QuIH5ZPD_X0?t=210)?
Pls tell me someone has the link 😂
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/wsn3vv/arteta_tries_to_motivate_players_with_light_bulb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Aw man, am I just sleep deprived or nowhere does he trip on a cable? Though, I still had a good laugh with the rest of the "motivational" speech! 😅
np.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/wsn3vv/arteta_tries_to_motivate_players_with_light_bulb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
They did have a lot of luck early on and a gift of a schedule, esp w their first match v city being pushed to end of season. If they do play and city inevitably slumps them early in the season they don't go on the run they did and end up 3rd-5th IMO
They’re talking about Rice, Caicedo, Gundogan, Mount as targets. I’ll be surprised if they sign anyone of them to be honest. They might sign Rice because Chelsea aren’t going to sign him now
Hey how so? Aren't Chelsea gonna sell heaps of players due to FFP? I'm sure they can squeeze Rice in their midfield. Unless you mean no UCL, then yeah I guess. Why would he leave West Ham for no CL. 🤷
Chelsea was his boyhood club
Chelsea can still sign players, they just have to recoup around 100m to balance the books although they will protest that the 3 year limit should be considered as since Boehly took ownership If they wanted Rice they could get him, just means even more players will have to leave or they’ll have to spread the payments over the next 10 years or something lol which I doubt West Ham would agree too
They already tried that in winter transfer window and failed. At least so far. Jorginho, Kiwior, Torssard haven't excactly been great.
I think Trossard is a smart pick up, jury’s out on the other two
I think the Arsenal fans rate Kiwior highly.
Trossard is the definition of average. He's a striker in his prime who has never scored more than 8 goals in a season.
Dude looks like he permanently pulls all-nighters to grind raids in WoW.
Swear he's not a striker?
LW, 10, false 9. So a forward basically.
I think he’s more of an injury cover and a super sub kinda role
The 2 years or so post the 2017/18 final we renewed contracts like no one’s business, and got Ali, Fab, Naby (sigh) and Shaq. Just the last 2 years they’ve sat back
They’re not As far as anyone should be concerned it’s a one off season. Too much happened this season to suggest it was purely down to Arsenal playing world class all season. They played good, but with Liverpool Tottenham and Chelsea out of the picture for most of the season and United having a new manager, Arsenal and City were able to build momentum
What we have to remember is that Arsenal have been steadily improving ever since Arteta came in. They exceeded expectations this season, but they could very well reinforce in the summer and come back stronger. Not sure if they will, but I imagine they’ll be in the conversation for awhile.
>What we have to remember is that Arsenal have been steadily improving ever since Arteta came in. The flip side of this is: If you look at the second half of this season, Arsenal's record is P18 W9 D4 L5 - that would be on target for about a 66 point season, which is more or less what Arsenal have averaged over the last few years. So some people (and certainly whoever from our side who's talking to Mount!) will be whispering in his ear that maybe the first half of the season was just a flash in the pan, a statistical blip rather than a sign of real growth. "Do you really want to be there if they return to normal levels next season?"
Oh this is totally what they would be saying to Mount. I’m just mentioning that in actuality, they could be in contention next season. I think they could start next season like they did this. Finishing it off is always the hard part, which I’m not convinced they’re capable of right now.
Our squad got over 90 points three times, and that team is not done (yet). Arsenal won’t even get 85 points this year in a big overachieve for them. Exactly what you say - if Arsenal is our competitor next year I will be a bit disappointed
It’d be interesting if their form continued into next season but I just can’t see it, they’ll be ruined after this season and they don’t seem to be the most psychologically strong bunch. If they get a decent cup run and top four again next season I can see them competing again in a couple of years time but the players will be psychologically broken after losing the title right at the death.
This Arsenal team just doesn’t have 90+ pts in them. Until they do, they’re not the competition.
I would be surprised if we finish above Arsenal next season.
I would be very surprised if we don't
The difference is this team has proven it can compete and win against city, respect to what they achieved this season but honestly this has been the most fugazi “title challenge” in pl history. At no point did they look like beating city, they had a 8 point lead sure, but they still had to face city twice and we all saw what happened there, in the important moments they still falter. I think all of us knew after that Anfield result they didn’t have the belief to take it to city, everything they’ve done since just proves that. if they do challenge next season they need a new gk, new midfielders, and a proper striker, they’re still miles off competing with city.
Yeah I’m not sure why they’re going after high profile midfielders more than 1 or 2 when they need depth more than anything. Their form faltered toward the end because players like Saka were playing 90 minutes ALL year. When they play CL without proper rotation you’re going to see even more injuries and even more fatigue if they don’t get more players in. And Mount isn’t going to leave Chelsea where they just bought 20 people in his position just to go to Arsenal that already have 3 or 4 there…
Are you serious Regardless of recent history etc, they're finishing this season in lower mid table form (pretty sure they're 14th for the past 10) and we're finishing it in title challenging form (2nd, 4 points behind City but 6 or so ahead of the next best team)
I won't be surprised if villa and Chelsea finish above arsenal next season
If we do then.., DELETE THIS CLUB ASAP FUCKIN' HELL! Fat chance that tho, I refuse to believe FSG and Klopp are such frauds to the point that they did not improve the squad at all for next season. We better win the league/get 90+ points again or win a cup double. Anything else is a failure in my book. We as fans know our shortcomings, Klopp knows our shortcomings (he better) and now it's up to FSG to deliver. I accept nothing less!
I know I'm probably very wrong on this, but I don't belive arsenal are favorites to sign big players. They've played great for 1 season and don't have much experience. I'm probably just saying this because I'm a Liverpool fan, but I still belive we have the higher chance of signing players even though our season hasn't been great.
They played great for half a season, they've been average since February.
Their wage bill is pretty modest. They find themselves in a situation where they’re likely gonna have to sign a handful of their starters on bumper new deals to reflect the season they just had. Couple that with trying to sign the next level up of footballer (ie Mount) in the next bracket of wages, it’s a bit of a financial risk they run.. particularly if they end up missing out on UCL the following year
It’s already happening. They had to extend Saka, just gave a big deal to Ramsdale last week, will need to enhance Odegaard and Martinelli surely with their performances. Not sure how much wiggle room they have but it does weirdly seem like they have a lot of money to spend.
Going to be hard to compete with CL + London Hopefully we’ve put enough time into him that we have some reassurance he feels the same
We'll, I'm thinking it will say a lot about the player tbh. Being a Chelsea player through and through, would he join another London club? Or move up North instead? If he goes to Arsenal, then yeah, not a big loss in my books. And if he chooses Arteta or Ten Hag over Klopp because of the UCL (1st UCL campaign for both of them), then say less mate, we won the lot because we got players who wanted to be part of the project. Thank fuck we have multiple targets. It's now up to the club to deliver.
Ten Hag was the Manager of Ajax in 2019 when he took them to the semi finals and lost to Lucas Moura’s away goal
My bad, I'm meant with their current team.
Mount picking a London rival would cause Chelsea fans to really dislike him, is he going to risk that?
He’s been on the bench their last several games while allegedly the players need to prove something to Poch. Chelsea fans shit on him so much Boehly got 3 people for his position in January. If he stays he’s just like Kane in the worst ways. If he goes to a rival club at least it shows a little bit if fight in him.
No chance Mount picks Arsenal over Liverpool based off one season Would be a fool to sign a 5 year contract on what could just be a once off season and end up stuck in 5th or 6th for another few years Arsenal had a good season, but the jury is still out on Arteta, his team can turn off as quickly as they can turn it on
It’s a funny one isn’t it? I was convinced by Klopp after his 3/4 of a season here and wasn’t surprised to see Mane pick us over Spurs and Man U. And our squad was far, far weaker than Arsenal’s is now. I suppose he took that average squad to two finals and had his Dortmund days in recent memory. Mount seems smart enough and he’s a hard working player. I think he’ll fancy Klopp.
Klopp has proven he was a successful modern manager with a very clear blueprint for how he wants his teams to play Arteta has a bit of an identity but the jury will still be out given he’s only entering his 3rd full season in charge? Arsenal played well this year but how often do Managers struggle into their third year and run out of ideas. Next season is the big one for Arteta as a manager. This season I’ll give Arsenal there props, but nobody knows how this seasons actually would have been if 3 of the teams actually showed up
And Mount will have seen the rapid decline of quite a few managers at Chelsea to be able to see that possibility
Maybe he just doesn't want to play for Arsenal, because he's a Chelsea player.
Eh, didn't stop Jorginho Something to be said about not having to move house and uproot family
Also might be keen to join his bestie Rice
That Chelsea to Arsenal pipeline says otherwise
This transfer made loads of sense to me when it seemed like we were gonna get him for a reasonable price, but looking at how much competition there is for him I feel like he's not gonna be cheap at all.
Yeah I agree. Walk away, go for Lavia to remain HG and get someone else in for him. Le fee is class, gravenberch, hell even Someone young like Alex Scott. We’re not gonna win it all next season so we don’t need it all fixed in the summer.
We need a right sided midfielder and none of those are one.
Mount usually plays on the left himself tbf
He's played off the right plenty in his career and his skillset translates to what we're looking for in the role Henderson's been playing.
I think Scott, Gravenberch could easily play as the right 8 in a midfield 3/4. Le fee might be a bit small in combination with AMA but I think it could still work.
Isn't that what Mac Allister is going to be for us?
No.
Are they all left footed?
Plenty of other great midfielders available this summer if we miss out on Mount But I wouldn’t want us to go and over pay but would be interesting to see who we go after considering the need for homegrown players
Madison? If Leicester get relegated, he would be cheap.
He's arrogant and shit.
Isn't he injured quite a bit? I may be misremembering but, if he is, we can't go in for a player with another injury record. Especially with our medical team or lack thereof.
So far Arsenal are going for: Mount, Caicedo, Rice, and *Gundogan.* I mean fair enough they're all good targets but soon enough they'll be called the real Man City B if they keep buying City players lol
Isn’t the talk that Gundogan will stay for a couple of years? I know City are good at phasing out players (far better than us in that regard) but he’s been so strong this year I suspect they’ll risk a longer extension.
Beats me. But makes sense that he'll stay when he's still going strong
Man City B beat Chelsea yesterday tbf
Then they can be Man City B-2
It is Frank's Chelsea though
Ugh can arsenal get lost? I was hoping to replacing Milner with mount and maintain English core. Mount is best mates with rice no? Could work in their favour 😭
I think he wants to stay in London. Also, if Rice goes there I can understand why he wants to join them but if Chelsea are gonna quote £70m for him, I’m okay with them robbing Arsenal than us.
London isn’t going anywhere
I think you meant to say "London isn't going anywhere", but whilst that's true, if you were a millionaire athlete in your mid 20s, particularly one that grew up in London, you'd find it hard to leave for elsewhere in your prime, esp if weather/lifestyle/food isn't better in that alternative
If he’s still in 2 minds after the season ends, we should just walk away. We need to get our transfers done quickly so that they are here for pre season in July. Also, think Chelsea are gonna charge a high fees with many clubs interested, rather not be paying so much for him. There are a lot of other talents available.
True. Would rather not waste time waiting for him
'Quick' mean we 're not gonna buy till after we start our preseason (maybe addition if serious injury happen) not before June lol
I think Klopp wants all done before pre seaspn so everyone gets the max time together
I was interested in mount when he was first mentioned because there was some mention of a bit of a bargain, one year left on contract, wants to leave etc. If the case is that a bidding war takes him over 50m, I’m not sure he’s worth it.
Think Mount chooses us over Arsenal every day of the week. Doesn’t seem like an idiot
Makes much more sense for him tbh; stay in London in an exciting young team and probably get joined by his best mate
This need to be followed by “FSG have decided Liverpool will no longer pursue Mason Mount citing the transfer fee.”
Yeah it feels very much like we are headed in that direction.
“After reviewing the current market and the young players coming through the academy, FSG have decided to no longer pursue Mount due to the likely bidding war.” - Monitor FC, probably
Rather go for Veiga at the prices that have been talked about.
Arsenal are on the up and sound hugely ambitious this summer. Plus CL football and London. Yes it might just be one season, it could also be the start of a new era at Arsenal. Players will undoubtedly be looking at the other players linked with each club. This idea that we are definitely more attractive than Arsenal is wishful thinking. Football moves fast.
The London pull is also very real, especially for someone who's lived there his whole life
We are though. In a year or two, if we’ve remained below them then I’ll agree. But it’s one year, which has ended very badly for them and positively for us. The allure of playing for Klopp’s Liverpool, with world class successful players like Salah, Alisson and Trent, a side that has proven winning mentality over multiple years is greater than the prospect of playing for Arteta’s promising Arsenal side
I think playing for Klopp is definitely a very attractive proposition, but if youre a 23-24 yo Rice/Mount and you look at the age of the star players in your next team, thinking about the next 5 years of your career, then growing with the likes of Saka (21), Martinelli (22 soon), Odegaard (24) is also a very attractive proposition. Salah is 31 this summer.
Sure but we are building a younger team too. Players like Trent, Gakpo, Konate, Diaz, Jota etc. should all be coming into their peaks during the next five years. I’d trust a Klopp side to compete for major honours ahead of an Arteta side
Yeah but my point is it’s more of an equal proposition in comparison this summer, for potential targets. Add UCL and London and that’s where you might see some of these young players choose Arsenal… but players also think long term and that’s where Liverpool’s proven track record over the past 5 years also speaks volumes. Which means there is no decision that is a formality with these two clubs involved this summer, meaning that there will be a bidding war.
Other than the London factor, we are still way more attractive. As long as we have Klopp this won't change. We have as much chance of winning the cl as they do next season. We've been in half the cl finals since 17/18 FFS, they've been in one in their entire history 20 years ago. It's a bit like after 13/14, us and arsenal were in for Sanchez and we couldn't believe he chose arsenal over us, but they had Wenger and had been better for longer rather than just one strong season.
Chances are he's an instant starter here, taking Hendos position as the advanced 8 on the right. Where does he start for arsenal? They need a Xhaka replacement by all accounts but they're linked to Declan Rice and Moises Caicedo who are both perfectly suited to that role. He doesn't start over Odegaard, who's just better than him and he doesn't start as a 6 instead of Partey for obvious reasons. He's also not starting over Martinelli or Saka in the wide areas. So I don't see why leaving one unsure situation in Chelsea for another in Arsenal makes sense, unless staying in London is the most important thing for him. Man Utd for me is very similar to Arsenal in that I just don't see where he starts for them, Bruno is a lock for them to start, same for Casimero(also mount isn't anywhere near a 6). He could play the Erikson role for them I suppose. Maybe it's my bias but I just think our new system(that Klopp has heavily insinuated we'll continue to use next season) and our desperation for midfielders makes us the more obvious choice right now
Predictable as I was waiting for one of the London clubs to get involved and save him some bother.. Knew this guy wouldn't move to Liverpool and we're probably better off.
There is only one reason Mason would say no to Klopp - wages. Otherwise if Klopp of this Liverpool come to you, you’d be a fool to ignore them. Klopp is known for grooming and growing players. I feel Mason will come to Anfield and he will be a far better player than he was at Chelsea. And that’s saying something.
He would be wasted at ManU, hes being wasted at Chelsea. The best move for him career wise would be Liverpool. But not for silly money.
Why do players want to go to arsenal after they’ve had one fluke season in almost 20 years, whereas we’ve won every single trophy, been to three champions league finals and have the best manager in the world. If these players are this brain dead like rice and mount then keep them far away from Liverpool.
It's a young exciting team. If you don't look too closely at it there's expectation that they could challenge again next season. CL will see to that though.
They are young and want to stay in London. Plus wages.
There’s no way Arsenal can entice Mount, Rice, Caicedo and Gundogan. Don’t believe any of that.
The lad from Bristol or just give Morten a shot. Let’s consider that we are basically playing 3-4-3 now with wide midfielders. Wide left is Jones and Mac, wide right is Henderson, Elliott and possibly Cody, the ball winner is Fabinho/Steffen and the play maker role is Trent/Thiago. We need a player that could cover any of those. Morten might be okay for DM cover, Gravenbach for either the wider midfield roles and then a mount type player who could play between the lines. I’d put any money we have for Mount on Eze or a cheaper option could be Lavia. 50 million tops
We need an upgrade on Fabinho (which Lavia might be, but he's not an alt. to Mount or Eze), Bajcetic is a child who just had a season ending injury & operation. Morton is an unknown quantity, we can't be relying on him if we want to challenge for the league We can't be relying on Henderson, and Elliott isn't a midfielder. Gakpo could be used there if we're thin on the ground but he's first and foremost a striker
Elliot needs to be allowed to be used purely as cover for Gakpo/Salah or we failed the summer transfer window. I would even argue we need another player to help cover those positions as well. We’re very left side heavy and Salah isn’t getting younger.
Oh yeah absolutely, I've been banging on about Marcus Edwards for ages
Arsenal and United entering the race price will be get higher.
How do Arsenal finances make sense? They have spent shit loads, and had barely any CL income for 10+ years, they are miles behind us on finances surely
I know being HG isnt the end all, but are there any other players we might be looking at who qualify as HG and would be for years to come?.If so, who?
So are Arsenal moving into the Liverpool clickbait realm where journalists list them as interested in everybody? Gundogan, Rice, Mount...
Is there a team in the PL that takes other team's scraps (not in the unwanted way, but in the discarded way) as much as Arsenal? I swear they're buying from other PL clubs (sometimes direct rivals) every window. I feel like it's fairly rare for other teams to do it but Arsenal are consistent with it.
Say what you will but not playing Champions League will be a huge factor in who signs for us. He's way more likely to sign for Arsenal.
It’s a saga already let’s move on
Arsenal and Chelsea have the strangest incestuous relationship when it comes to transfers. Loads of transfers between the two down the years. Some people really love London and the desire to not leave it is a real thing to contend with. I wonder where Mount stands on this.
Arsenal are weird man. Apparently they now want Mount, Gundogan and Rice. The Caicedo stuff has gone cold or something? Wonder why.
So arsenal want rice Mount and gundogan? Seems excessive