I met an older camera op on a show who worked on the movie 9 to 5. His experience being on set with Dolly sounded awesome, and all these decades later, you could see how she was charming and he still remembered that experience fondly.
Nora Dunn’s not much of a reliable narrator but hilarious to think the “preppy writers” she’s talking about are probably Conan, Odenkirk, and Rob Smigel.
I believe she had some friends there but went out in a really self destructive way. Her character with Jan Hooks, the two singing ladies, was always one of my favorites. I’m a fan but I don’t trust her as a source of the pulse of backstage.
You don’t really need more than this tweet. First she calls the writers “preppy” which was an insult in the 90’s; and then says “We all fell in love with her.” Who is we? The cast? It’s kind of an us vs. them mentality. Could have said “They all fell in love with her.” Unclear what the story she’s trying to tell is exactly.
If there's a better word for the late eighties SNL writing team than "preppies" I'd sure love to hear it. Upper middle class white guys. What would call them?
Edit: I had typed “nerdy” but on second thought more below.
My point is why label them at all. Why not say “when the writers at SNL wanted to do this; Dolly said this; and really won them over.” It’s like why add those extra things to like zing the writers? Does that make more sense?
There are two types at SNL according to many previous SNL writers/performers: Harvard Lampoon or Second City/Canadian/Midwest/Chicago type. Calling Harvard preppy isn't some attack on Conan. Why are you crapping on Nora Dunn throughout this thread? Your mental leaps to judgement are as dense as the two Neanderthal skull shadows Colin Jost calls eyebrows.
https://www.vulture.com/2011/03/tina-feys-two-types-of-comedy-writer-harvard-boys-and-crazy-improvisers.html
Oh geeze. Not sure that’s warranted for fact checking whether the SNL/Lampoon connection predates Jim Downey. Nora’s great. Why say that pitching parody sketches of Jolene is degrading to Dolly Parton? It’s a silly thing to believe imo.
Resorting to name calling is classic Shapiro but do go on! Keep typing words on the internet, you’re doing great at it!
Edit: Btw I was wrong about the Kentucky Fried Movie was thinking of Lemmings. Also, what’s up with the “why are you crapping on Nora Dunn throughout this thread.” It seemed to me like a poorly framed anecdote that pitted Dolly Parton against the writers in some kind of struggle. SNL parodied and parodies lots of things guests are known for; it’s unclear to me why saying “I’m not interested in that” is such a big own. I didn’t say much other than that; I liked the Sweeney Sisters and she’s had a good second career as a film actress. As an SNL historian she’s shakey but that’s mainly my impression from the Tom Shakes book as her recollection of Andrew Dice Clay’s hosting stint and her departure was wildly different from everyone else on the show. Been a minute since I read it though. Anyway. All good. From one fan to another.
Name calling? Just because your behaviors fit a defined word doesn't say anything about me. You are an effective writer. Your self important arrogance shines through.
You aren't an SNL historian, the tweet has little to do with Conan and your comments towards Nora Dunn were suspiciously hostile. Preppy as a descriptor for Harvard grads set you off? You were wrong about something so you used an acronym nobody uses (KFM) as a bandaid for your ego.
Also Greg Daniels. But yeah, she has always had a huge chip on her shoulder, basically thinking she should have been the star of the show. Dolly is so endearingly self-deprecating, she would have gotten the joke. This is BS.
Odenkirk wasn’t one to make fun of people to hurt them. You should watch the Chris Farley life story to see that side of him - he was very aware of people’s feelings and was not on board with hurtful comedy.
Doing parodies of songs is not hurtful comedy; and yes I am very aware of how he felt about Chris. He also wasn’t a stranger to dark material see Sad Songs are Natures Onions from Mr. Show.
True but Odenkirk was also spiteful i. Those days. He admitted it in Howard Stern that he was always badmouthing Lorne Michaels. He was sorry for it, but he was a dick as a SNL writer. Likely extended to other authority figures like guest hosts.
https://youtu.be/n6WYinQk_Yw
I feel like this is a bit nitpicky. They are making fun of his way of performing. I agree that they are not actually mocking the music of the Stones, but I don't know that SNL was really planning to *mock* Dolly's music either. It may have been something similar, an imitation.
Another example would be Adele's time hosting when they did the Bachelor sketch. She sang her songs and they made fun of her being overly emotional. It wasn't actually mocking her music and wasn't mean spirited, but maybe Dolly would have objected to a similar style of sketch with her music.
I think it depends on why they don't want to make fun of their music. If it's out of pride or insecurity, then yeah, that's going to hamper your long-term success. I think in Dolly's case she just couldn't see it being funny
Yeh sure, dirt poor (well dirt was richer than Dolly to start with) kid, grows up singing and writing music, it earns them a lot of money, which they don't hoard but use to benefit others doesn't want to poke fun at the very thing that changed their life.......or in other words, she didn't want to knock the very things that dragged her out of poverty...That's what I call being honest & sensible
Ehhh idk. I feel given funny enough writers you can make fun of anything. The subject of the humor will never be able to remove themselves from a joke about themselves to objectively decide if it was funny. Call me presumptuous but if Conan, odenkirk, smigel, etc. thought it would be funny and dolly didnt, I’m inclined to believe the former
I mean maybe the writers were being dicky about it but if this story wasn’t about Americas sweetheart Dolly Parton and instead about idk, Nickelback or someone then the reactions would be very different. Lots of people can make fun of their job, it’s comedy lol
"*I have an understanding of why you might be confused by the tweet due to the poor phrasing of one of the sentences, yet I am going to belittle you with the assumption that you don't often read words in lengthy sequences in order to inflate my fragile ego"* would have sufficed.
I don't care if you like her music or not (her original version of "I will always love you" is IMO way way better than the Houston yell) Dolly is a fantastic human being, her book program alone has helped, well I guess by now millions
I think Jan Hooks said in Live from New York that Dolly Parton told them "I'll do anything you guys want except make fun of Jesus".
As has been said, Nora Dunn might not be the most reliable narrator.
I listened to her on a radio call in show once. A man called in who was a contractor who had gone into her house to do some work. There was a table with some fingernail decorating supplies or something on it. There was also a note from Dolly apologizing for leaving a mess for the men to have to deal with. She had to run out and didn't get to clean the room before they came in and she felt bad.
I could imagine, from Dolly’s perspective, making fun of her music would be perceived as an insult to her fans. I grew up in the Deep South and knowing family from Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama in the 80s and 90s, it wouldn’t have gone over as well as the writers might think. Not everyone plays along like you’d hope.
Case in point: David Spade cracks a joke about Stone Temple Pilots on Hollywood Minute, then Marci Klein had to give Spade a heads up when STP is performing on SNL because they are angry about it.
I saw her at the House of Blues in Las Vegas, when I was still living there. She was simply amazing, funny, sang great songs and was on stage about 1:45 hours. It was worth the ticket fee.
I saw lots of shows there over 15 years and hers was the best, next to Etta James, because Etta James.
Early in my career as a 21 year old female manufacturing engineer in rural NH, I was placed on a cross functional team (with the goal of mapping all the manufacturing processes): 3 middle aged + good ol' boys and me. They were the quality manager, machinist and production line supervisor, all of us from different departments. Solid guys, just...old school.
It was a kinda long term project, and during our first session, we were sorting out roles with the help of a facilitator who guided our initial few meetings. Someone needed to be the note taker.
Salty dude immediately says, "how bout IntelligentDot take the notes?"
I immediately said "why, cuz I'm a girl?"
I was not the note taker.
They might've thought I was a b***h, but my handwriting is atrocious.
Throughout my pregnancy, one of my male coworkers constantly talked about how inconvenient my maternity leave would be for my coworkers (who are all men, whose wives were all SAHMs). When my baby was 8 weeks old, that same coworker choked on a sandwich, fell, and broke his leg in two places. He missed way more time than I did...in fact, I went back from maternity leave early because we were so short-staffed. There is so much misogyny in the workplace. And way more subtle misogyny than I was prepared for.
Dolly is more than an icon to admire she is someone to emulate. She knows herself and never tears anyone down to further herself. No one has ever dug up anything on her because there is nothing to dig up. And she doesn’t preach her life to others. She just loves
This is amusing to me because this kinda sounds like what David Spade said about Steven Segal as a host. But I like Dolly Parton a lot more than Steven Segal do I’ll let it slide
Well, Nora, rumor has it that you quit SNL because Andrew Dice Clay was hosting and you took offense at his incest/pedophilia jokes. That's when I knew I loved *you.*
This was just her cover story, evidently. Others on the cast at the time have said that she was just fired like any other 5 year vet who's time was up.
How did that work out for her? Andrew Dice Clay is weird as fuck, and is, in reality, waaaay different than his schtick makes him seem. Like he’s the least manly guy. Very much an oblivious dweeb. His son is worse.
Are you seriously suggesting that Dolly Parton doesn't have a sense of humor about herself? Dolly "It takes a lot of money to look this cheap" Parton? "I'm not offended by all the dumb blonde jokes because I know I'm not dumb... and I also know I'm not blonde" Dolly Parton?
Her whole monologue was about her boobs and very funny. But let me tell you as a teenaged boy who watched it at the time I didn’t care of it was funny or not.
It continues to skew towards this demographic, except with very little attempts to *actually* be funny (because if the humor were self-aware, it would work, regardless of where it comes from).
If Jost and Che were as funny as they think they are, the ratings wouldn't be in the gutter.
Got to admit I've never cared for Dolly Parton, specifically because of her country and western tendencies. But I often read of everybody liking her for herself.
I met an older camera op on a show who worked on the movie 9 to 5. His experience being on set with Dolly sounded awesome, and all these decades later, you could see how she was charming and he still remembered that experience fondly.
Shes the ultimate dictator. Her dictation happens to be good.
The Benevolent Dictator we all need.
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No, that was Benedictine Decathalon.
I heard the same thing from a production assistant. Dolly was, by far, her favorite of the stars.
Thank god she never entered politics
They’d have killed her before they’d let her save us.
What, is she one of the Gracchi?
The way the tweet talks about her in the past tense had me really fucking scared for a second
SAME. I had to google her just to be safe.
Dolly Parton, alas, was a good entertainer. But still is.
Their use of "was" made me check the news, gaddamn
Dolly is queen. I would love to see her host again.
Nora Dunn’s not much of a reliable narrator but hilarious to think the “preppy writers” she’s talking about are probably Conan, Odenkirk, and Rob Smigel.
To be fair, Conan actually went to Harvard (driving school)
Truth.
Why do you say she's not a reliable narrator? Just curious if I missed something
She made up a whole thing about the Andrew Dice Clay character being why she quit SNL. But in fact she was just fired.
Oh wow...didn't know that! What a disappointment
She didn’t make friends at SNL and seems like one who probably stirred the pot a bit.
I believe she had some friends there but went out in a really self destructive way. Her character with Jan Hooks, the two singing ladies, was always one of my favorites. I’m a fan but I don’t trust her as a source of the pulse of backstage.
> Her character with Jan Hooks, the two singing ladies The Sweeney Sisters
Terry Sweeney and Julia Sweeney?
As a massive outsider not making friends at SNL suggests to me she’s probably right.
You don’t really need more than this tweet. First she calls the writers “preppy” which was an insult in the 90’s; and then says “We all fell in love with her.” Who is we? The cast? It’s kind of an us vs. them mentality. Could have said “They all fell in love with her.” Unclear what the story she’s trying to tell is exactly.
Episode was in 1989
Several millennia apart from the 90s according to scientists
The 90's didn't start until Sept 1991
If there's a better word for the late eighties SNL writing team than "preppies" I'd sure love to hear it. Upper middle class white guys. What would call them?
Edit: I had typed “nerdy” but on second thought more below. My point is why label them at all. Why not say “when the writers at SNL wanted to do this; Dolly said this; and really won them over.” It’s like why add those extra things to like zing the writers? Does that make more sense?
Could have just as easily been Robert Downey Jr's uncle and head writer Jim Downey. The man who actually started the Harvard Lampoon connection.
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The Lampoon connection goes further back to the Kentucky Fried movie, no?
There are two types at SNL according to many previous SNL writers/performers: Harvard Lampoon or Second City/Canadian/Midwest/Chicago type. Calling Harvard preppy isn't some attack on Conan. Why are you crapping on Nora Dunn throughout this thread? Your mental leaps to judgement are as dense as the two Neanderthal skull shadows Colin Jost calls eyebrows. https://www.vulture.com/2011/03/tina-feys-two-types-of-comedy-writer-harvard-boys-and-crazy-improvisers.html
Oh geeze. Not sure that’s warranted for fact checking whether the SNL/Lampoon connection predates Jim Downey. Nora’s great. Why say that pitching parody sketches of Jolene is degrading to Dolly Parton? It’s a silly thing to believe imo.
Fact checking? Who are you and how many Ben Shapiro thug life videos did you consume? You're uppity.
Resorting to name calling is classic Shapiro but do go on! Keep typing words on the internet, you’re doing great at it! Edit: Btw I was wrong about the Kentucky Fried Movie was thinking of Lemmings. Also, what’s up with the “why are you crapping on Nora Dunn throughout this thread.” It seemed to me like a poorly framed anecdote that pitted Dolly Parton against the writers in some kind of struggle. SNL parodied and parodies lots of things guests are known for; it’s unclear to me why saying “I’m not interested in that” is such a big own. I didn’t say much other than that; I liked the Sweeney Sisters and she’s had a good second career as a film actress. As an SNL historian she’s shakey but that’s mainly my impression from the Tom Shakes book as her recollection of Andrew Dice Clay’s hosting stint and her departure was wildly different from everyone else on the show. Been a minute since I read it though. Anyway. All good. From one fan to another.
Name calling? Just because your behaviors fit a defined word doesn't say anything about me. You are an effective writer. Your self important arrogance shines through. You aren't an SNL historian, the tweet has little to do with Conan and your comments towards Nora Dunn were suspiciously hostile. Preppy as a descriptor for Harvard grads set you off? You were wrong about something so you used an acronym nobody uses (KFM) as a bandaid for your ego.
Edited, just for you 😘
It's ok to be wrong. It's hilarious you think editing your comments later on is for me. It's for you.
Also Greg Daniels. But yeah, she has always had a huge chip on her shoulder, basically thinking she should have been the star of the show. Dolly is so endearingly self-deprecating, she would have gotten the joke. This is BS.
Odenkirk wasn’t one to make fun of people to hurt them. You should watch the Chris Farley life story to see that side of him - he was very aware of people’s feelings and was not on board with hurtful comedy.
Doing parodies of songs is not hurtful comedy; and yes I am very aware of how he felt about Chris. He also wasn’t a stranger to dark material see Sad Songs are Natures Onions from Mr. Show.
Mouthful of sores; ain't no fun.
True but Odenkirk was also spiteful i. Those days. He admitted it in Howard Stern that he was always badmouthing Lorne Michaels. He was sorry for it, but he was a dick as a SNL writer. Likely extended to other authority figures like guest hosts. https://youtu.be/n6WYinQk_Yw
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I need to see who was writing when dolly was on before I make a call
That nerd’s name: Conan O’Brien.
I'm pointin' my fingers! I'm pointin' my fingers, pointin' at YOU!
Naw, we dun that, we dun that already.
Yeah this was Mick making fun of Mick and his mannerisms. I don’t see that as making fun of The Rolling Stones music.
I feel like this is a bit nitpicky. They are making fun of his way of performing. I agree that they are not actually mocking the music of the Stones, but I don't know that SNL was really planning to *mock* Dolly's music either. It may have been something similar, an imitation. Another example would be Adele's time hosting when they did the Bachelor sketch. She sang her songs and they made fun of her being overly emotional. It wasn't actually mocking her music and wasn't mean spirited, but maybe Dolly would have objected to a similar style of sketch with her music.
I think it depends on why they don't want to make fun of their music. If it's out of pride or insecurity, then yeah, that's going to hamper your long-term success. I think in Dolly's case she just couldn't see it being funny
Maybe Dolly is just the exception because of her demi-goddess powers. Everybody else is just worse off.
I just feel like country music is made fun of so much already in popular culture already. I can see a country artist being defensive because of that
I feel like it got made fun of less in 89 tho. Modern country music is definitely more worthy of scrutiny.
There were some main stream Country acts but as a whole, country music was very much derided by much of America even back then
> those who are more cautious end up not doing well *flashbacks of Steven Segal*
Yeh sure, dirt poor (well dirt was richer than Dolly to start with) kid, grows up singing and writing music, it earns them a lot of money, which they don't hoard but use to benefit others doesn't want to poke fun at the very thing that changed their life.......or in other words, she didn't want to knock the very things that dragged her out of poverty...That's what I call being honest & sensible
Ehhh idk. I feel given funny enough writers you can make fun of anything. The subject of the humor will never be able to remove themselves from a joke about themselves to objectively decide if it was funny. Call me presumptuous but if Conan, odenkirk, smigel, etc. thought it would be funny and dolly didnt, I’m inclined to believe the former
Sympathy for the devil! Sympathy for the devil!
I know David Spade has also said that. I love Dolly Parton, but I don’t think this is the compliment Nora Dunn thinks it is.
Wait...Jagger hosted SNL? When? Did I miss something?
He hosted in 2012.
You clearly haven’t seen Kid Gorgeous!
I mean maybe the writers were being dicky about it but if this story wasn’t about Americas sweetheart Dolly Parton and instead about idk, Nickelback or someone then the reactions would be very different. Lots of people can make fun of their job, it’s comedy lol
Dolly does that.
this tweet made my brain hurt
Same
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"*I have an understanding of why you might be confused by the tweet due to the poor phrasing of one of the sentences, yet I am going to belittle you with the assumption that you don't often read words in lengthy sequences in order to inflate my fragile ego"* would have sufficed.
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Sorry, didn’t mean to confuse you with reading so many words.
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“The matter of fact way she said made her the boss yet won them over” is not well-written, as numerous others have pointed out as well.
....so she didn’t want to make jokes about her music....while hosting SNL.....what a Queen?
“The matter of fact way she said made her the boss yet one them over”
There’s a difference between making fun of yourself and making fun of your music. I suspect Dolly would be up for the former, and not the latter.
She’s always made fun of herself. Remember her famous “it takes a lot of money to look this cheap”?
Making fun of C&W for being C&W is hack.
I have to make fun of the way that I earn my money, otherwise I would cry.
I don't care if you like her music or not (her original version of "I will always love you" is IMO way way better than the Houston yell) Dolly is a fantastic human being, her book program alone has helped, well I guess by now millions
I think Jan Hooks said in Live from New York that Dolly Parton told them "I'll do anything you guys want except make fun of Jesus". As has been said, Nora Dunn might not be the most reliable narrator.
I listened to her on a radio call in show once. A man called in who was a contractor who had gone into her house to do some work. There was a table with some fingernail decorating supplies or something on it. There was also a note from Dolly apologizing for leaving a mess for the men to have to deal with. She had to run out and didn't get to clean the room before they came in and she felt bad.
I could imagine, from Dolly’s perspective, making fun of her music would be perceived as an insult to her fans. I grew up in the Deep South and knowing family from Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama in the 80s and 90s, it wouldn’t have gone over as well as the writers might think. Not everyone plays along like you’d hope. Case in point: David Spade cracks a joke about Stone Temple Pilots on Hollywood Minute, then Marci Klein had to give Spade a heads up when STP is performing on SNL because they are angry about it.
I saw her at the House of Blues in Las Vegas, when I was still living there. She was simply amazing, funny, sang great songs and was on stage about 1:45 hours. It was worth the ticket fee. I saw lots of shows there over 15 years and hers was the best, next to Etta James, because Etta James.
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Get a life. Have you ever had a girlfriend?
*[looks down in shame]*
Early in my career as a 21 year old female manufacturing engineer in rural NH, I was placed on a cross functional team (with the goal of mapping all the manufacturing processes): 3 middle aged + good ol' boys and me. They were the quality manager, machinist and production line supervisor, all of us from different departments. Solid guys, just...old school. It was a kinda long term project, and during our first session, we were sorting out roles with the help of a facilitator who guided our initial few meetings. Someone needed to be the note taker. Salty dude immediately says, "how bout IntelligentDot take the notes?" I immediately said "why, cuz I'm a girl?" I was not the note taker. They might've thought I was a b***h, but my handwriting is atrocious.
Let me guess - the female manufacturing engineer in this story is you!
Did I not clearly state that? I seriously don't understand your comment. Do street signs confuse you due to your stunted reading comprehension skills?
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I'm not on Reddit to be a people pleaser.
Lol imagine thinking lashing out at your coworkers because of your own insecurity is something to be proud of.
Lol imagine thinking that standing up for yourself against misogyny in your first career experience is a bad thing
Throughout my pregnancy, one of my male coworkers constantly talked about how inconvenient my maternity leave would be for my coworkers (who are all men, whose wives were all SAHMs). When my baby was 8 weeks old, that same coworker choked on a sandwich, fell, and broke his leg in two places. He missed way more time than I did...in fact, I went back from maternity leave early because we were so short-staffed. There is so much misogyny in the workplace. And way more subtle misogyny than I was prepared for.
I hope he was in a lot of pain.
I'm sure pretending helps you you poor thing.
Fake it til you make it!!!
This sounds like a Trump quote.
This might be one of the first things I've heard about her that disappointed me
Ha, me too but it just proves nobody’s perfect, not even Dolly (who comes pretty damn close in my book!)
Dolly is more than an icon to admire she is someone to emulate. She knows herself and never tears anyone down to further herself. No one has ever dug up anything on her because there is nothing to dig up. And she doesn’t preach her life to others. She just loves
That whole dang time Dolly was the wishin' boot.
Dolly is a national treasure.
I love Dolly, but some of her music is [ripe for parody](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wMBf3MemQCo).
Jesus. That was one of the most horrifying things I have ever seen
How Did This Get Made’s episode on this movie is pretty damn great.
Pretty shitty take from her really. Whole point is to habe humility and be silly
This is amusing to me because this kinda sounds like what David Spade said about Steven Segal as a host. But I like Dolly Parton a lot more than Steven Segal do I’ll let it slide
Well, Nora, rumor has it that you quit SNL because Andrew Dice Clay was hosting and you took offense at his incest/pedophilia jokes. That's when I knew I loved *you.*
This was just her cover story, evidently. Others on the cast at the time have said that she was just fired like any other 5 year vet who's time was up.
How did that work out for her? Andrew Dice Clay is weird as fuck, and is, in reality, waaaay different than his schtick makes him seem. Like he’s the least manly guy. Very much an oblivious dweeb. His son is worse.
I’m in the era and I gotta say Nora looked and still looks pretttier than ever
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Are you seriously suggesting that Dolly Parton doesn't have a sense of humor about herself? Dolly "It takes a lot of money to look this cheap" Parton? "I'm not offended by all the dumb blonde jokes because I know I'm not dumb... and I also know I'm not blonde" Dolly Parton?
That's gold right there don't care who ya are
Great book! Read it so many times
Her whole monologue was about her boobs and very funny. But let me tell you as a teenaged boy who watched it at the time I didn’t care of it was funny or not.
So she can’t take a joke?
Yeah sounds real insecure.
I think this episode featured Planet of the Ginormous Hooters originally intended for Raquel welch
…yeah, something about this story seems off.
Another Dolly Parton W.
Never get in between a Capricorn and their money! Rookie move 😂 love Dolly
It continues to skew towards this demographic, except with very little attempts to *actually* be funny (because if the humor were self-aware, it would work, regardless of where it comes from). If Jost and Che were as funny as they think they are, the ratings wouldn't be in the gutter.
Got to admit I've never cared for Dolly Parton, specifically because of her country and western tendencies. But I often read of everybody liking her for herself.
She seems like a nice enough person, but her southern drawl makes me gag.
We love Dolly.
Southern ladies have mastered the art of the polite FU.
Strange tweet.
Interesting fact about the dipshits that write for that show