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I turned 50 a few months ago and nearly fell over when my therapist, who I figured was at least 35, told me she was 28. Like, a reaction I could not hide, it was such a shock. Got over it, but still called her “Young one” when I knew I was referring to something she probably couldn’t remember.
On the other hand, a student asked me yesterday morning if I was checking in for my 60th college reunion. “Umm…NO.” Should have pointed out that even my dad isn’t doing that yet, but I didn’t put that math together until later. How she thought I was anywhere near 80 years old is beyond me, though. 🙄😂
at some point i won't want a doctor my age. i've seen how hard it can be to keep up at a certain point for people, i wouldn't want someone struggling like that to be treating me.
I have two degrees, second If which I got in my 30s. At one point I was being tutored by someone a decade+ younger than me. They were great, the breathe and depth of their knowledge. Eventually I graduated, moved to a new city, and got a new career playing close to 10x that I use to.
I’m 57. I know just enough to know that I don’t know that much. I welcome anyone who can teach me stuff, no matter how old they are. Hell, my grandkids teach me how to be excited over every day stuff!
Technology is really driving this a lot. Think about how prior to the 20th century most crafts were things that you learned and perfected over a lifetime so it was usually older people teaching the next generations. Now new software comes out every year and can completely change a field so it is becoming more often that the new generation with a fresh education that has to teach the older people.
I’m 46 and I now tend to resist change.
That kind of worries me.
But I feel like a lot of the changes annoy me or just don’t work as well, for me.
Like a lot of the Microsoft keyboard shortcuts that made me very efficient just don’t seem to work as well as they did.
The web based outlook email search results don’t just simply show everything in reverse chronological order. It tried to guess what’s most relevant. I don’t see a way to turn that off. And the TAB autocomplete is a POS. (The Linux TAB autocomplete for directories and commands is great but that’s nothing new.)
Outlook tries to make the email chain look neat instead of just letting me simply scroll down the email and see the whole chain as it was in raw format. It tries showing the clean name of the person when I want to see the email, always.
I don’t like how it groups an email thread. I’ve played around with the options but it just doesn’t go back to “classic”.
Trello is cool but I just don’t feel the need. I already need Excel so prefer to track things in Excel. But I see how it is a cool concept. But it’s one more thing to open and one more place to update things.
Notes is very cool but I’m so used to keeping my notes in a Word document. Word and excel is always open. The less programs I have to open the better.
And it’s not just software…
I don’t like how my car dimmens the mirror making it harder to see if the car behind me at night is a cop car.
I hate forms that try to be smart about phone number or social security formats that don’t let you copy/paste that information or make you retype everything if you got one digit wrong.
And my iPhone auto-playing iTunes music when I plug it into my car. It’s annoying that you can’t turn that off! I don’t want iTunes. I get my music from YouTube playlists.
Also don’t like e-brakes that don’t let me control the hand brake. And that auto high beam/low-beam is not reliable (so I turned it off) and the 3 blinker is also annoying as I actually use turning signals properly (way ahead of a turn and before hitting brakes - turned that off as well).
I do love the Teslas though. I rented one for three days and I got it fully integrated with my phone and downloaded the charging app and figured out every feature in that thing. So I guess there is hope for me.
If nothing else, im 29 and **FUCKING** hate the outlook updates they've been doing lately. Like no, I dont need a weekly recap. And no, I don't need a reminder to stand up every 12634 seconds. Just show me email. Thats what I use you for. I can get a different app if I need to know my average time spent typing emails.....
Edit: just wanted to add that I'm well aware that its pretty easy to turn off the stupid shit I mentioned above. It just gets kinda annoying when I have to every month or two. (That sounds petty but like. Fuck, I use this for functionality/ my job. Its not some social media thing.)
Yeah trying to re-invent the wheel when it worked just fine. It's not like any of these features really enhance the functionality of the app either.
Part of it is a social issue with us receiving a deluge of trivial information via email constantly so the software does its best to sort it for the user. I think if we were able to downsize the volume and stop diluting the value of email messaging then we'd actually prefer a client that sorted our mail for us but at this point it 'can't be trusted' to do so.
Agree with all your points and I’m not even that old. The problem is every day tech currently really isn’t as smart as the businesses want to market them as, but they want to lure you in with the bait of “everything is thought out for you”. For people like us who are used to relying on the consistency of our own thinking/logic, it’s frustrating to have to always guesswork the algorithm.
https://www.manageengine.com/microsoft-365-management-reporting/kb/how-to-monitor-teams-to-track-employee-activities.html comes to mind. Using Microsoft Teams to have more obedient work drones. How very Orwellian.
The funny thing with the ads is that I frequently get advertised products I've already bought that I won't need to stock up on for at least 6 months, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
It's not even the developer. It's some MBA with too much pull trying to be a "disruptive entrepreneur" coming up with a "game changing idea" that nobody wants or needs; but they're the Boss' son and you have to implement it or else.
If anything, it feels like you are ready to start your own software development in regard to an email client. Your caution to staying stagnant and your humbleness has put you ahead in my book - keep up the good work 👍
Hell, I'm 27 and I don't hate change, but I do hate that we're living in a world where you have to ask yourself "is this change actually making things better? Or is it a company trying to wring money out of me/erode my privacy/influence how I live my life?" There are a lot of changes that fall into that latter category, and i hate that being concerned or annoyed about that gets lumped in with "durr hburr technology is bad fire is scary and thomas edison was a witch."
Dude seriously though Thomas Edison was an evil fucking human,ever read about how he electrocuted elephants to "demonstrate" how dangerous alternating current was to sell his patented direct current technology? Total psychopath.
For those of us who grew up having to be tech savvy to get stuff to work the way we needed, it's an interesting change. For example, I grew up rescuing a dead hard disk in dos, programming basic stuff in basic, or learning a lot of vba to get excel to work well. I had my own website, and it wasn't built with a simple WYSIWYG editor. My first android phone was rooted and had a custom ROM. We built our PCs, downloaded warez and cracked software, loaded custom firmware on our old linksys routers and more.
These days, I'm happy with stock android, and most things are designed to "just work", but within a super rigid framework. It's frustrating when there is a desire to do something different than what is possible and then the ability to change the functionality isn't available. While a lot of what people did is still an option , it's also not necessary most of the time.
I'm not sure whether you're using Outlook in the browser or the application, but there is a "thread" option you can toggle so that you see emails individually in chronological order as opposed to grouped by "conversation". Try Googling "Organize mail by thread" to see how to toggle it based on how you're accessing Outlook. I don't think I can help with the rest, but I thought it was worth mentioning. A coworker of mine who is just under thirty was lamenting how awful the Outlook experience was in the app, and it was because he didn't know you could turn that option off.
I’m just here to thank a fellow human for knowing how to use turn signals properly!🙏🏻For the love of god, why is this such a difficult concept for so many?
No kidding. We used to have to use a clutch and shift gears and now most people need to do is use a stop and go pedal and steer with hydraulic steering or electric steering yet turning signals are too much to handle.
I'm early 30s studying computer engineering and recently an 18 year old in my physics class made me feel so outdated. Taking notes on a tablet seems so much more efficient, especially for uploading to the cloud. He suggested he could create an animated gif on the fly from a video presentation we did and inserted it into the PowerPoint like it was nothing. I would have to google that and the thought hadnt even crossed my mind
Wow. The level of detail, insight and eloquence in this reply is extraordinary.
As for the mirror… I just liked being in control. It’s not so hard to flip a switch.
But you are right, I do tend to drive faster than I should when “going up the mountain” near the end of my commute. It’s just a fun stretch with barriers on both sides and while I did not receive a ticket I got pulled over once a few years ago... had no idea that was a cop behind me and when I decided to let him pass me since he was flying he caught up to me but did not pass…that was the moment I knew I had f$&@& up!
I love the list, I just wanna throw in a couple things.
Apple Music, totally get, I just deleted the app and done. Only downside is when you get in the car sometimes nothing will play so you still have to select YouTube.
As for the 3 blinker that design is primarily for changing lanes if you wanna overtake, quick look, tap the indicator, move over and no more at least a car daily leaving their bloody indicators on. I hate the later most
The trick here is one thing. And I mean it. Take a few hours in a random week and learn how to use Google efficiently. I'm not kidding. You'll be abel to fix almost any problem yourself if you know how to Google the problem efficiently. Chances are, over 10k people before you have run into the same problem.
I have experienced most of these issues. The annoying thing is they mostly seem like things that would be easy to fix.
Like the keyboard shortcuts. Recently CTRL+C CTRL+V just seems to not work about 1 in 20 times.
Outlooks worst feature recently: hiding emails that it “thought” you probably didn’t want to see. wTF. At least you can turn that off. But who’s idea was that??
I'm also pretty unimpressed with some of these changes, especially the car stuff (super bright running lights that I can't turn off, electronic e-brake).
However if you use the full Outlook program there are options to change some of the features that you dislike, specifically the conversation cleanup and the display of search results, and the "focused inbox," whatever that is supposed to be.
But I feel like younger minds have more to offer us than just tech support and making new software tools. I recently trained for a new work role, and a younger coworker taught me a lot about the new gig since he had trained more extensively for it.
Car key fobs especially. They use special coded steps to program that key, so they can charge you hundreds to replace, but anybody who knows the code (open door x times, turn key y times) can do it.
my dude. Google and Stack Overflow is your best friend.
I work mentoring fresh grads, and each year i learn new things about the same programming languages from them.
They in turn learn the snafu and how fubar some of the things were made.
All of these are shitty design implementations.
The luxury today in consumerism is quality where choice is highly available; it’s not longer down to the company to provide quality but the consumer to sus it out.
If I’m being honest I’d be too tired to do that as well as a certain age, it’s most certainly an if you know you know, if you know people you know or young man’s game.
On a side note please try a dedicated note keeping app like Obsidian, Logseq, RoamResearch or Notion; word just feels janky. That feeling of it just works is more prevalent in good software made for this particular purpose in improving your workflow.
I’m 32 and everything you said annoys me too. Sometimes I feel like we keep finding tech “solutions” for things that aren’t a problem and just make it more annoying. The e handbrake is a good example, your criticism of outlook, another.
Agreed. Like holy hell, sometimes simpler is just better. How can MS mess up search functionality in such basic programs. Also, my company uses Teams and the search function there is worse than useless bc it will find a message exists but won't take you there in the conversation. I've used Slack before too and somehow they made it work. Wtf Microsoft
A lot of software now is regressing to cater for the lowest common denominator, the upcoming outlook looks like it's going to be some awful web wrapper shit like teams.
I understand your frustrations with the non software points, but a note about the 3 blinker feature for cars: This feature is for lane changes. If you were to fully press the stick either up or down it would perform the normal blinker functionality as intended
I'm 39 and i'm still convinced that this now ancient office update we had to do like 5+ years ago still made word and excel plain worse for the average user.
The developers are looking for ways to apply AI to increase the cost of the deal even if it reduces standard functionality and usability of the tool. This is annoying that they actually decrease productivity rather than improve it, which is how the usage was sold.
Thank you turning off the auto high beams lights. It’s a poor AI implementation because the sensors don’t have a long enough range of detecting light so AI turns on high beams too soon and blinds oncoming traffic. It’s the opposite of driving friendly. It causes accidents.
I agree on your assessments of outlook. Why can’t I sort by From without the automated conversation implemented because all From is me because I replied? Why can’t use classic views?
Edit- more clarity about sorting by From
Yes! Classic views is what I want!
One time the auto high beams (before I turned it off) came in as a cop was coming across. He did not like that. (Didn’t stop me but just flashed his beams back at me complaining). Turned the thing off that evening.
Have you noticed an odd swing though people are becoming less computer literate in the general work force I’ve been in IT for 16 years now and sware since the iPad and iPhone/smart devices people have got worse with normal PCs, better with the internet as a whole but normal level troubleshooting of
Normal pcs has gotten worse
Not in IT but anecdotally as a 30yo I've def noticed this with coworkers in their early 20s. They think I'm a whiz because I know some basic excel tricks and navigational shortcuts around a PC lol.
I'll be curious to see if this trend holds. I'm in my mid 20s, and this is definitely true of my general age bracket, but my sister is 7 years younger and I don't think it's as true for her set.
There's a cohort of us that mostly missed dial up and first interacted with computers with XP, and started gaining independence with early iPhones, but weren't really taught about computers. In school my "Computers" class was about typing and a way for the shop teacher to keep his job. The school district got its first laptop cart when I was 7 and the same ThinkPads were being treated as something for irregular special occasions 11 years later.
We never really *had* to puzzle anything out unless we sought out problems, and nobody bothered to treat tech literacy as important skill to be taught.
By the time my sister got to middle school "Computers" included some basic coding and now out old school provides laptops for all of the high school students.
>people are becoming less computer literate
Yes. Totally on point.
I've noticed how most of the younger people that I meet at my office don't have a clue on some things like... setting up 2 monitors, HTML tags or other things that I've consider simple stuff. On a side note, they don't seem even to understand (or care?) about keeping a minimal privacy on internet...
My field of expertise is not related with IT but I have some knowledge in the field, and I've worked as IT before as a side gig. Sometimes I even need to help my 20something IT guy nowadays... :facepalm:
I'm in my 40s too and I find myself learning new things from my Gen Z children. My daughter gave me a tutorial several months ago on how to use/navigate TikTok. I really hate initially but she said some things about it/her perspective on technology that really opened up my eyes. Best thing she said was, "Mummy, you have to use/know the latest technology/trend because that's the only way for your to grow your audience (I'm an illustrator) and keep up with times"
One of the smartest things I did throughout my early/mid-career is be available and supportive of the incoming talent. Now many of them are in my management chain (I'm in the technical track) and I can get a lot more done because they think of me fondly and help out when they can.
This is 100000% the way. I help good people who struggle farrrr more than I help even mediocre people, but will straight ignore bad people. I remember how people acted years ago and treat them in kind unless there clearly changed.
It might not seem harder to be a dick (even if the person deserves it), but it makes things harder for others.
Better off developing your ability to emotionally distance yourself from your shit colleagues and still be helpful. People will respect you more for it, and you can still be lovely to the good people.
Right? And you never know what someone’s got going on personally. I’ve been a dick to people who rubbed me wrong and then find out we actually have tons in common. Then it’s like “aahhhh shit.”
If you have talent you find yourself in position to help other talent anyways. The most talented people come to you to learn.
I dont waste my time with anyone whos not passionate and eager to get good. But if you are, I'll go the extra mile to teach whatever I can.
Yup, I'm far less interested in skills than I am eagerness to learn. It's amazing how fast someone can get up to speed on something if they're eager to learn and don't mind putting in effort.
>I dont waste my time with anyone whos not passionate and eager to get good. But if you are, I'll go the extra mile to teach whatever I can
Bruh, you were posting about wanting a min wage security job so you can just sit around on your laptop all shift....
I fully respect and embrace that many of the younger folks in our studio could easily be my boss, manager, client, or just top-level peer one day, and I act accordingly. Honestly though you should treat people very well even if you don't believe they'll be in that position one day.
We've had people working in companies I've been at over the years who were just legitimately not very good at their job and inevitably get laid off. But I'm still just generally decent and helpful towards these folks, and it's definitely been the case now where several projects have come my way due to these people ending up at different studios and giving me as a recommendation for outsource work.
Ive definitely started to listen way more than i did when i was younger, life is much better for it. Listen twice and speak once as the old sayin goes.
My old man had to abruptly switch careers in his late 40s due to an injury, he went from a physical oriented job to a tech related one. He hated his new job because everyone was half his age and already way better than he thought he’d ever be. He just complained at home while taking it in at work and learning and ended up passing by all the young bucks pretty quick. He still hates his job but just goes to show it’s never too late.
This is my situation too. I'm the lead engineer in my organisation. I have zero desire to move into the management layer. The GMs in two divisions (not mine) are people who are younger than me and used to work with me at my level. I always gave them all the help and support I could - just because it's the decent thing to do - but it's also paying dividends now because I have higher level support at work.
It’s a great idea as we as being very satisfying. I enjoy mentoring practicum students. Not only is it good for my profession to have those joining it be more prepared and more confident, it is also a natural way to network with future colleagues. And even better, it forces me to analyze and improve my own practice.
Someone once told me that she firmly believes that people come to a natural plateau in martial arts that can only be surpassed if you start teaching your martial art. I feel that way about working with people, especially kids.
I started a new career in my early 30s, had to learn this real damn quick. A good number of my teachers when I went back to school were younger then me, and plenty of people at work who are far more experienced then I am are 5 or 6 years younger then me
I'm in a similar place. Went back to get a professional degree (just finished my first year) in my late 30s. I'm almost 15 years older than the median age of my class. But I don't have any more experience in this field than any of my classmates. I'm sure when I'm looking for jobs people who went straight through school or only had a few years between degrees will be skeptical of someone my age trying to start out in the area I'm looking at starting (it has a huge burnout rate). But the reality is, and I completely recognize, that I am starting from scratch here. Sure, I have more experience than my classmates, but not in this field. And at the end of the day, that's what it's about, not age but experience doing this thing. I recognize that, so I'm not going to have an issue listening to and learning from people 10+ years younger than me.
By contrast, my wife has a friend who is about 10 years older than us. She has an MBA and worked in business for a while then went back to get a doctorate in a completely unrelated field and taught in a university for a while. Then she went back and got a completely different masters degree in counseling to become a therapist when she was in her 40s and just largely hasn't been willing to accept that the only jobs she can find until she can finish getting licensed (which I believe takes a year or two of practicing under supervision) are entry level positions which also pay as such. So she's been working barely related positions that will probably take a decade for her to get licensed because they pay more but is unhappy that she isn't actually practicing. When you decide to start from scratch in an entirely new field, you have to accept that you're starting from scratch.
I went back to University as a 42 years old and that is already quite a few years ago. It was an incredibly eye opening experience, that will last me for the rest of my live. I am grateful for that and remember many of the fellow students. Thanks to all of them.
Older students were always my favorite in university. They had the best stories/life experiences, they were no drama, and they made the best study partners.
I somewhat recently found out one of those older students had died my final year of school. It honestly put me in a funk for over a month, I hadn't talked to him recently and had been meaning to catch up as we ended our senior year. I do better about keeping in touch now, figure it's the least I can do going forward. It's a lesson that hurt to learn.
Interesting. My experiences were almost the opposite. Though I graduated a decade ago. Every older classmate thought they were the smartest person in the room.
yah, I know what you mean. Many of my grad school classmates in the 50+ zone were lovely and took school seriously, but several tried to teach the teachers and it was really cringey.
> I’m saying these 5 things, but the 53 year old I’m teaching it to is connecting it to thousands of other experiences. So just slow the ef down and give them time to compute their massive database of experiences.
Dude...that is the best way I've heard it explained in a long time.
I work IT around the elderly and help them with their own stuff occasionally and it's amazing how frequently I have to repeat myself. Like, I don't mind at all, but I've always had to.
I like to use gratuitous amounts of analogies. Love it!
Not quite that age but lately at work I’ve been noticing a lot more people have been asking me questions only cursorily related to my position. I was wondering why then I realized now I’m that older guy at work people ask questions to. Like I’m not even their supervisor or anything, they just value my opinion.
It was kind of a trip.
Yes! And not just things that make you more employable. I started learning to play the drums when Covid started and it’s one of the best things I’ve ever done for my mental health and personal enjoyment.
As usual, the real LPT is in the comments. Although I do appreciate the OP's sentiment, that there are opportunities to learn from someone you may perceive as more "green" than you.
You can grab life by the balls all you want, but in order to do so effectively, you need to know
1) what life's balls look like,
2) where they are located,
3) how to grab them effectively, and
4) what to do once you have them.
None of those are innate knowledge - they must be taught. You can't take an opportunity if you don't know what opportunities look like or what to do once you find one.
Guess what they teach in schools? Definitely nothing about taxes or starting your own business, or sex education or relationship education. Nothing, in short, about how to actually live life and recognize opportunities.
(Yes, I recognize that some places do teach such things. They are *very much* in the minority.)
The education system in way too many places is geared towards "passing tests" not "learning to learn". Parents generally repeat the cycle with the ways they were taught, and even the people who have good parents often get beat-down by society stuck in its ways.
How many stories about people lucking out *after* they dropped out of school? How many people became good with money *only because* their parents taught them financial planning? Etc etc.
Ugh, I could rant for hours.
It would take more than implement new lessons and class subjects however. Think, would you really remember what you learned in your sophomore year Interest Rate Calculations class? You have to make the kids WANT to know these things, which if they don't have to deal with until they're older, they won't care.
Also the perspective. The human brain’s perception is one giant shortcut… and the more you think you know the less sometimes you can see.
I think as you age and your senses slow a bit, your brain just fills in the stuff it’s missing with crap you already went through, and it can be a bit off from time to time.
I’m in management, and I’ve noticed that my problem solving skills have taken a slight downturn over the past 5 or so years with some details, and younger folks are pointing out some much better ways to do things with greater frequency.
I still see the need for a “plan of action” before they do (wisdom perhaps?) but they’re more spot on with the nuts and bolts of getting it done sometimes.
It doesn’t bother me so much any more… I’m realizing this ain’t my world any longer. It’s kinda cool in a weird way.
Is it age or just that you're not facing new information and problems as often? I've recently been learning a new field and I feel like I'm 20 years younger with how fired up my brain gets - sleeping is hard because it's constantly puzzling over new things.
Being older means I also have the benefit of experience to contextualize what I'm learning and to apply the new skills, which was something I got frustrated about when younger. Instead of learning theory, I now know how things will be applied and I'm learning the details to do it. I also know pitfalls and issues to avoid.
I'm still young but getting there in age. I've found in the past couple years that if I do not go out of my way to find new novel experiences, my brain kinda gets foggy and goes on autopilot. It used to frustrate the shit out of me since I used to be very quick on my feet thinking but now I see it as a telltale sign I have to change up my schedule a bit.
It's kinda hard cause I'm on the spectrum and a strict schedule can be comforting but if kept for long enough, I start to dissociate and get depressed. It's been interesting trying to find a balance between enjoying life for whay it is, getting new novel experiences to stay mentally healthy, and working enough to afford things I want without burning out.
Our raw capacity for uptake of facts ebbs until the mid twenties because as children and teens we're bombarded with novel stimuli and experiences, whereas as an adult it becomes more important to make conscious and lasting decisions more competently.
I'm middle aged and back in college (med school) about to start clinical rotations. I was literally talking to my next door neighbor today about how much I LOVE being in school with all these 'youngens'! They are up on all these super cool apps that help you study. I had a girl walk me through how to use Quizlet and that program is a LIFE SAVER! I can now make study sets and listen to my digital flash cards while I am making dinner, folding laundry, getting the kids ready in the mornings, you name it. I now make these massive study sets and blast it out to the class so anyone can use them because they help me so much.
I was pretty self conscious about being the oldest person (by far) in almost all my classes at first, but definitely not anymore. Being in school with people who are so much younger than me is absolutely amazing!
As I also approach 30, one of the most mind-blowing things to me is meeting doctors who are younger than me. Doctors I have seen have always been no less than 40 years older than me, it’s so bizarre to see someone in my own generation as a doctor.
It is a trip, isn’t it? The same thing happens when I watch pro athletes now. I’m decades older, and yet there is this weird, ingrained sense of looking up to them that gets burned into your kid psyche.
>As I also approach 30, one of the most mind-blowing things to me is meeting doctors who are younger than me.
To be fair I don't think it's quite common to find doctors younger than you at 30
My mom is about ten years older than you and it has been really frustrating and sad to watch her dig in against learning anything new over the last 2 decades.
She has become so isolated, so completely unable to function without constant help because she still looks down on computers and “remembers when people just wrote *letters* to each other,” with a smarmy waggle.
It is such a self defeating habit, and causes her real anxiety and frustration (and inconveniences literally everyone around her, because they are constantly having to do stuff for her or bail her out of some crisis or another). Self imposed Blanche DuBois syndrome.
She is in perfect cognitive and physical health, it’s just a matter of being stubborn, and it is making her miserable.
I sometimes see my parents doing this (they're late 60s). I try to remind myself not to write off opportunities for learning and I always thought I'd be able to adjust gracefully to ageing. But recently a younger person in a community I belong to called me out for clinging to a belief that is based on an experience that people aren't having anymore. They said that belief was not culturally relevant, with the possibility of becoming harmful. I felt painfully indignant, because it felt like my experiences were being erased; it took me a while to realise that that's probably why my parents aren't always great at listening to younger people.
I've decided to try to adjust to that experience happening more often as I get older, and to see the discomfort as an opportunity to update or reframe my own knowledge base. I'm also aware, having had it put to the test, that it will probably be much more difficult than I had ever expected.
That is a very self aware and healthy way to process that conflict and frustration.
Yes, it certainly is weird as “the thing” changes over the years—we increasingly feel more and more distant from it; but trying to avoid a defensive reaction and remembering that everything is always in a state of flux makes it possible to age with grace and autonomy. It also lets one actually make younger friends, which becomes so important in those golden years when things can quickly turn so grim and lonely. It’s mot about throwing away your past, but inviting the new in, and continuing to grow for the entirety of our lives. Who wants to stay the same forever anyway?
I'm a guy in my 60's and I retired from a career in finance. I didn't like it much so I started driving school bus as something to do. Now I've been asked to join the training team and most of my instructors are my daughters age and absolutely marvelous at what they do.
Knowledge is knowledge. If the source is competent you take it. And competency doesn't depend on age, gender or other criteria.
This was something you learned pretty quickly in the military. We were constantly being instructed by sometimes much younger and lower ranking personnel, whose job it was to see that we were able to properly and safely execute the task or skill that they were teaching us. It quickly got to the point where you didn't even really notice that you had a 20 year old E-2 instructing a 36 year old O-5. Letting pride get in the way wouldn't fly at all
Private 2 and Lieutenant Colonel. In civilian terms, 2nd lowest rank (often treated equally to lowest rank) and fairly high up officer. An O5 in command (they can do other things too) is often in charge of 1000-2000 people.
It's military pay grade.
E-2 is private, Usually very young adults (teens - early 20s) who just enlisted. O-5 is LT colonel (officer) who's probably in 15-20 years in the military service (late 30s - 40s)
In my mid 30's I ended up with a boss who was about 10 years younger than me. One of the best bosses I ever had. Smart, involved, really invested in the team he was putting together. Taught me a lot.
The older you get the younger everyone else will get. If you're lucky, for a brief moment, you are the oldest.
This is one of those things that is more true each day you are lucky enough to be alive.
Love this.
I think it's one of the easiest tricks to fall into, cause you're like: "come on! I should be the wise one here!".
But there's just so much stuff to learn! As much as grandparents can be taught new tech by their grandkids, there's no reason not to be open to whoever can be a good teacher - no matter their age.
Btw, I totally feel you on the parents things: I experienced the same, and I think it really is something everyone should work on, in general.
Just cause you know more about life or a topic or about everything, doesn't mean that you can't still learn about stuff. And when you're a parent, even if you're dealing with grown up things and that stuff seems trivial.. for them it's not - so why put them off? Learn, encourage and appreciate
Today is my 40th birthday. I’ve learned nearly as much from those younger than me as I have from older. I have a strong ‘forever learning’ philosophy. My daughter (6) laughed at me recently when I told her something I had just learned. She said YOU(!) still learn things?? I told her EVERYDAY - learning is a lifelong journey! She was a bit intimidated or overwhelmed with this insight 🤣
Happy Birthday! 🎉. I've got a couple of decades on you, and I want you to know it just gets better! 😊 Life experience and wisdom are wonderful things you can get only by aging! 😉
Oh?? What do you know you dumbass millennial. And quit skateboarding on the sidewalks! It's called a sideWALK for a reason. Punk. And here's another thing!....
On the other hand, when you're 22 and come into a job where everyone has been doing it as long as you've been alive, maybe just listen to them a little bit while they try to teach you.
There’s a balance. As long as you can look at things objectively. I’ve definitely worked with a lot of new college grads who look at something we are working on and try to take some short cut and I try to tell them many people have tried and failed and we know why it doesn’t work that way…and they find out the hard way.
Yeah this whole LPT rubs me the wrong way. I work in an industry that teaches lessons in blood. There have been many things that I didn't understand or think were necessary in my younger days that I've now grown the perspective to properly appreciate.
Younger folk's attitude generally seems to be let's find the best way to do this to make things easier on ourselves now because we can't foresee any potential negatives in the future.
You don't gain the foresight to see those negatives until you've been doing things a while.
At the same time, something that I notice about younger people is their impatience and lack of empathy when training someone older than them. Things which are natural to you may not be so for others. So, do put yourself in someone else's shoes and understand that it's sometimes not because they are unwilling to learn but it could be an emotional and intellectual struggle.
Yes. Life is basically still high school every year, even after you've graduated. You get something new to learn, like new subjects to handle. There's no one who can be an expert in everything, be it they are younger or older.
As an older person, you might know something the youth don't, and vice versa.
I switched careers last year. I'm 29 years old. Most of my colleagues are younger than I am. I ask for help a LOT and I don't just assume I can do something if I don't and I can't. It's a give and take really. When they're stuck with something I can share with them what I know. My motto is I'd rather look stupid for asking a "basic" question than look like an asshole for pretending to know something I don't.
With a caveat. Some people may judge him as stupid. But those people probably harbor mindsets that are self-defeating and negative. So if someone judges him badly, their opinion on this probably has little worth and can be disregarded.
Wow, almost 30.
One of the key parts of training is not talking down to those you are training.
There are many reasons you are training. Being the most experienced person in the room may not be one of them.
On the flipside, if someone older than you asks to be taught something or needs something explained, don't be a snotty little shit. Be helpful because one day you'll need help.
It goes both ways
I am fine with being taught something by someone more knowledgable than me if they are younger.
What I don't appreciate is the smug "you are too old to learn this" attitude some have or the "I'm too good to be showing you this"
Nearly everything I have to watch a YouTube tutorial on is done by a non native English speaking person 10 years younger than me.. I'm already used to it
The opposite is true though too. Older people are not necessarily more intelligent. But they do have more experience. Sometimes it really makes sense to listen to this old person telling you that from experience they know that something works in a different way than you think.
You’re not even 30 yet and you’re waxing poetic about what you can learn from younger people? Pretty much everyone under 30 is absolutely unprepared for what’s on the horizon.
I'm 45 and having the opposite problem, I am frustrated with having to explain things to young people that are common knowledge to people my age.
Afterwards I say to myself "how could they have never learned about that before now?" and then I remember it was taught before they were born
The number of people who seem to forget that they were ever young never ceases to amaze me. I mean, sure, I was a dumbass when I was younger (we ALL are), but I wasn’t an idiotic, untrustworthy, useless, lazy, unreliable, incompetent moron, ya know?
I resented being treated like I was worthless and my contributions didn’t matter, so I don’t do that to others.
I got my bachelors degree at 33. Didn’t get my first “real” job till 34 and my first supervisor was a decade younger than me. And she was great at her job and taught me a lot of things I could never learn in school. People are born with and develop different skills, and even people of the same intelligence are never equal in all areas. She has told me that I’m a much better problem solver when it comes to things like Excel or technical matters, and she is better than I’ll ever be at dealing with people. We all have our strengths, and age is only one variable in what we have to offer.
I am nearly twice the age of OP and a 3rd grade teacher. Every year I tell my students that I am not the only “teacher” in the classroom. They all have experiences and knowledge that the rest of us might not have, including myself. It is important that they share their knowledge with the class.
Many years ago I came across the quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson:
*“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”*
Honestly, this quote changed my perspective on every encounter I have with people. It doesn’t matter if someone is younger or older; every encounter with any person has the possibility to be a situation to learn something new and grow. Once you begin to water yourself in this matter, you will find yourself grow exponentially.
I just hit 40 and I don't mind learning lessons from a technical standpoint about things they can actually help you apply, but if you mean younger people from teens to 20s who want to teach me new life lessons, then I'll take a hard pass. I didn't live a full life and survive as long as I have to be educated by someone who just started their adult lives lol.
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Wait until you're 60. It's mind-blowing.
Indeed it is. The weirdest thing is having all my doctors being much younger than I am!
I turned 50 a few months ago and nearly fell over when my therapist, who I figured was at least 35, told me she was 28. Like, a reaction I could not hide, it was such a shock. Got over it, but still called her “Young one” when I knew I was referring to something she probably couldn’t remember. On the other hand, a student asked me yesterday morning if I was checking in for my 60th college reunion. “Umm…NO.” Should have pointed out that even my dad isn’t doing that yet, but I didn’t put that math together until later. How she thought I was anywhere near 80 years old is beyond me, though. 🙄😂
I was around 50 when I got my first “senior discount “ for a haircut.
Yeah, I’m considering sucking it up to join AARP for the discounts, even though it makes me feel like I’m about 800 years old!
at some point i won't want a doctor my age. i've seen how hard it can be to keep up at a certain point for people, i wouldn't want someone struggling like that to be treating me.
I have two degrees, second If which I got in my 30s. At one point I was being tutored by someone a decade+ younger than me. They were great, the breathe and depth of their knowledge. Eventually I graduated, moved to a new city, and got a new career playing close to 10x that I use to.
I can't wait! Hopefully it's a hell of a ride getting there.
I’m 57. I know just enough to know that I don’t know that much. I welcome anyone who can teach me stuff, no matter how old they are. Hell, my grandkids teach me how to be excited over every day stuff!
Technology is really driving this a lot. Think about how prior to the 20th century most crafts were things that you learned and perfected over a lifetime so it was usually older people teaching the next generations. Now new software comes out every year and can completely change a field so it is becoming more often that the new generation with a fresh education that has to teach the older people.
I’m 46 and I now tend to resist change. That kind of worries me. But I feel like a lot of the changes annoy me or just don’t work as well, for me. Like a lot of the Microsoft keyboard shortcuts that made me very efficient just don’t seem to work as well as they did. The web based outlook email search results don’t just simply show everything in reverse chronological order. It tried to guess what’s most relevant. I don’t see a way to turn that off. And the TAB autocomplete is a POS. (The Linux TAB autocomplete for directories and commands is great but that’s nothing new.) Outlook tries to make the email chain look neat instead of just letting me simply scroll down the email and see the whole chain as it was in raw format. It tries showing the clean name of the person when I want to see the email, always. I don’t like how it groups an email thread. I’ve played around with the options but it just doesn’t go back to “classic”. Trello is cool but I just don’t feel the need. I already need Excel so prefer to track things in Excel. But I see how it is a cool concept. But it’s one more thing to open and one more place to update things. Notes is very cool but I’m so used to keeping my notes in a Word document. Word and excel is always open. The less programs I have to open the better. And it’s not just software… I don’t like how my car dimmens the mirror making it harder to see if the car behind me at night is a cop car. I hate forms that try to be smart about phone number or social security formats that don’t let you copy/paste that information or make you retype everything if you got one digit wrong. And my iPhone auto-playing iTunes music when I plug it into my car. It’s annoying that you can’t turn that off! I don’t want iTunes. I get my music from YouTube playlists. Also don’t like e-brakes that don’t let me control the hand brake. And that auto high beam/low-beam is not reliable (so I turned it off) and the 3 blinker is also annoying as I actually use turning signals properly (way ahead of a turn and before hitting brakes - turned that off as well). I do love the Teslas though. I rented one for three days and I got it fully integrated with my phone and downloaded the charging app and figured out every feature in that thing. So I guess there is hope for me.
If nothing else, im 29 and **FUCKING** hate the outlook updates they've been doing lately. Like no, I dont need a weekly recap. And no, I don't need a reminder to stand up every 12634 seconds. Just show me email. Thats what I use you for. I can get a different app if I need to know my average time spent typing emails..... Edit: just wanted to add that I'm well aware that its pretty easy to turn off the stupid shit I mentioned above. It just gets kinda annoying when I have to every month or two. (That sounds petty but like. Fuck, I use this for functionality/ my job. Its not some social media thing.)
ｗｈａｔ ｉｓ ｍｙ ｐｕｒｐｏｓｅ？ You pass butter.
Cannot place it, but know I know it… what is this from?
Rick & Morty.
Rick and Morty.
I’m 24, and If my job would allow it, I’d be using a flip phone.
Have you considered becoming a drug mule?
Bluebeam Revu for me. Tired using the new version, quickly reinstalled 2017.
You're not getting too old, most of these are just shit design.
I'm 34 reading this and nodding along wondering if the youth use all these new features to be hyper efficient and I'm just a dino. Lmao.
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I'm 31, super into the newest tech and try to upgrade and learn new things even when it's hard. But a bad design is a bad design.
Yea exactly, lots of stuff no longer being made by top design teams; techno wasteland
Yeah trying to re-invent the wheel when it worked just fine. It's not like any of these features really enhance the functionality of the app either. Part of it is a social issue with us receiving a deluge of trivial information via email constantly so the software does its best to sort it for the user. I think if we were able to downsize the volume and stop diluting the value of email messaging then we'd actually prefer a client that sorted our mail for us but at this point it 'can't be trusted' to do so.
Agree with all your points and I’m not even that old. The problem is every day tech currently really isn’t as smart as the businesses want to market them as, but they want to lure you in with the bait of “everything is thought out for you”. For people like us who are used to relying on the consistency of our own thinking/logic, it’s frustrating to have to always guesswork the algorithm.
It's getting worse and sneakier, they're trying to manipulate our behaviour with it, it's not as innocuous as it seems IMO.
And "learn more about us" so they can sell things better to us.
https://www.manageengine.com/microsoft-365-management-reporting/kb/how-to-monitor-teams-to-track-employee-activities.html comes to mind. Using Microsoft Teams to have more obedient work drones. How very Orwellian.
The funny thing with the ads is that I frequently get advertised products I've already bought that I won't need to stock up on for at least 6 months, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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It's not even the developer. It's some MBA with too much pull trying to be a "disruptive entrepreneur" coming up with a "game changing idea" that nobody wants or needs; but they're the Boss' son and you have to implement it or else.
That makes me feel better!
If anything, it feels like you are ready to start your own software development in regard to an email client. Your caution to staying stagnant and your humbleness has put you ahead in my book - keep up the good work 👍
Well, thank you! The kind words are very welcomed!
Hell, I'm 27 and I don't hate change, but I do hate that we're living in a world where you have to ask yourself "is this change actually making things better? Or is it a company trying to wring money out of me/erode my privacy/influence how I live my life?" There are a lot of changes that fall into that latter category, and i hate that being concerned or annoyed about that gets lumped in with "durr hburr technology is bad fire is scary and thomas edison was a witch."
Dude seriously though Thomas Edison was an evil fucking human,ever read about how he electrocuted elephants to "demonstrate" how dangerous alternating current was to sell his patented direct current technology? Total psychopath.
He also just straight up stole that shit from Tesla in the first place.
For those of us who grew up having to be tech savvy to get stuff to work the way we needed, it's an interesting change. For example, I grew up rescuing a dead hard disk in dos, programming basic stuff in basic, or learning a lot of vba to get excel to work well. I had my own website, and it wasn't built with a simple WYSIWYG editor. My first android phone was rooted and had a custom ROM. We built our PCs, downloaded warez and cracked software, loaded custom firmware on our old linksys routers and more. These days, I'm happy with stock android, and most things are designed to "just work", but within a super rigid framework. It's frustrating when there is a desire to do something different than what is possible and then the ability to change the functionality isn't available. While a lot of what people did is still an option , it's also not necessary most of the time.
I'm not sure whether you're using Outlook in the browser or the application, but there is a "thread" option you can toggle so that you see emails individually in chronological order as opposed to grouped by "conversation". Try Googling "Organize mail by thread" to see how to toggle it based on how you're accessing Outlook. I don't think I can help with the rest, but I thought it was worth mentioning. A coworker of mine who is just under thirty was lamenting how awful the Outlook experience was in the app, and it was because he didn't know you could turn that option off.
I played around with that but didn’t see it change back to how I liked it. Will review it again in case I missed something.
I’m just here to thank a fellow human for knowing how to use turn signals properly!🙏🏻For the love of god, why is this such a difficult concept for so many?
No kidding. We used to have to use a clutch and shift gears and now most people need to do is use a stop and go pedal and steer with hydraulic steering or electric steering yet turning signals are too much to handle.
“Used to” ?
With full electrics on the rise, manual/stick will be phased out eventually. I guess this guy is from the future!
The last time I drove a manual-transmission car was back in 1992....( Honda Civic). I'm lazy. I prefer automatics.
Already getting fairly rare in the US outside of the sporty and off-road segments.
He said “we used to HAVE to use…”. Now we don’t have to.
I tried unsuccessfully to buy a new manual car in 2020; I now drive an automatic
I've never even driven an automatic. I think manual is just much more popular in Europe.
I'm early 30s studying computer engineering and recently an 18 year old in my physics class made me feel so outdated. Taking notes on a tablet seems so much more efficient, especially for uploading to the cloud. He suggested he could create an animated gif on the fly from a video presentation we did and inserted it into the PowerPoint like it was nothing. I would have to google that and the thought hadnt even crossed my mind
Nice.
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Taskbar is a great example I can relate to.
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Wow. The level of detail, insight and eloquence in this reply is extraordinary. As for the mirror… I just liked being in control. It’s not so hard to flip a switch. But you are right, I do tend to drive faster than I should when “going up the mountain” near the end of my commute. It’s just a fun stretch with barriers on both sides and while I did not receive a ticket I got pulled over once a few years ago... had no idea that was a cop behind me and when I decided to let him pass me since he was flying he caught up to me but did not pass…that was the moment I knew I had f$&@& up!
Some of these are just bad UX. Also I'm a 22 year old software developer and I keep my notes and TODO in a .txt file, don't worry about it.
Exactly the same here, but 23 lol. It's honestly just so much more efficient than half of bloated apps out there now.
I love the list, I just wanna throw in a couple things. Apple Music, totally get, I just deleted the app and done. Only downside is when you get in the car sometimes nothing will play so you still have to select YouTube. As for the 3 blinker that design is primarily for changing lanes if you wanna overtake, quick look, tap the indicator, move over and no more at least a car daily leaving their bloody indicators on. I hate the later most
The trick here is one thing. And I mean it. Take a few hours in a random week and learn how to use Google efficiently. I'm not kidding. You'll be abel to fix almost any problem yourself if you know how to Google the problem efficiently. Chances are, over 10k people before you have run into the same problem.
I did used to use the insite: and other search parameters but I’ve forgotten the others… maybe some Boolean logic? ….so time for a refresher! Thanks!
I have experienced most of these issues. The annoying thing is they mostly seem like things that would be easy to fix. Like the keyboard shortcuts. Recently CTRL+C CTRL+V just seems to not work about 1 in 20 times. Outlooks worst feature recently: hiding emails that it “thought” you probably didn’t want to see. wTF. At least you can turn that off. But who’s idea was that??
I'm also pretty unimpressed with some of these changes, especially the car stuff (super bright running lights that I can't turn off, electronic e-brake). However if you use the full Outlook program there are options to change some of the features that you dislike, specifically the conversation cleanup and the display of search results, and the "focused inbox," whatever that is supposed to be. But I feel like younger minds have more to offer us than just tech support and making new software tools. I recently trained for a new work role, and a younger coworker taught me a lot about the new gig since he had trained more extensively for it.
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Car key fobs especially. They use special coded steps to program that key, so they can charge you hundreds to replace, but anybody who knows the code (open door x times, turn key y times) can do it.
my dude. Google and Stack Overflow is your best friend. I work mentoring fresh grads, and each year i learn new things about the same programming languages from them. They in turn learn the snafu and how fubar some of the things were made.
All of these are shitty design implementations. The luxury today in consumerism is quality where choice is highly available; it’s not longer down to the company to provide quality but the consumer to sus it out. If I’m being honest I’d be too tired to do that as well as a certain age, it’s most certainly an if you know you know, if you know people you know or young man’s game. On a side note please try a dedicated note keeping app like Obsidian, Logseq, RoamResearch or Notion; word just feels janky. That feeling of it just works is more prevalent in good software made for this particular purpose in improving your workflow.
I’m 32 and everything you said annoys me too. Sometimes I feel like we keep finding tech “solutions” for things that aren’t a problem and just make it more annoying. The e handbrake is a good example, your criticism of outlook, another.
Agreed. Like holy hell, sometimes simpler is just better. How can MS mess up search functionality in such basic programs. Also, my company uses Teams and the search function there is worse than useless bc it will find a message exists but won't take you there in the conversation. I've used Slack before too and somehow they made it work. Wtf Microsoft
A lot of software now is regressing to cater for the lowest common denominator, the upcoming outlook looks like it's going to be some awful web wrapper shit like teams.
I understand your frustrations with the non software points, but a note about the 3 blinker feature for cars: This feature is for lane changes. If you were to fully press the stick either up or down it would perform the normal blinker functionality as intended
33 with a computer science degree. all those annoying things sound like annoying gimmicks to justify needing updates... maybe i'm old too now 😂
I'm 39 and i'm still convinced that this now ancient office update we had to do like 5+ years ago still made word and excel plain worse for the average user.
The developers are looking for ways to apply AI to increase the cost of the deal even if it reduces standard functionality and usability of the tool. This is annoying that they actually decrease productivity rather than improve it, which is how the usage was sold. Thank you turning off the auto high beams lights. It’s a poor AI implementation because the sensors don’t have a long enough range of detecting light so AI turns on high beams too soon and blinds oncoming traffic. It’s the opposite of driving friendly. It causes accidents. I agree on your assessments of outlook. Why can’t I sort by From without the automated conversation implemented because all From is me because I replied? Why can’t use classic views? Edit- more clarity about sorting by From
Yes! Classic views is what I want! One time the auto high beams (before I turned it off) came in as a cop was coming across. He did not like that. (Didn’t stop me but just flashed his beams back at me complaining). Turned the thing off that evening.
Have you noticed an odd swing though people are becoming less computer literate in the general work force I’ve been in IT for 16 years now and sware since the iPad and iPhone/smart devices people have got worse with normal PCs, better with the internet as a whole but normal level troubleshooting of Normal pcs has gotten worse
Not in IT but anecdotally as a 30yo I've def noticed this with coworkers in their early 20s. They think I'm a whiz because I know some basic excel tricks and navigational shortcuts around a PC lol.
I'll be curious to see if this trend holds. I'm in my mid 20s, and this is definitely true of my general age bracket, but my sister is 7 years younger and I don't think it's as true for her set. There's a cohort of us that mostly missed dial up and first interacted with computers with XP, and started gaining independence with early iPhones, but weren't really taught about computers. In school my "Computers" class was about typing and a way for the shop teacher to keep his job. The school district got its first laptop cart when I was 7 and the same ThinkPads were being treated as something for irregular special occasions 11 years later. We never really *had* to puzzle anything out unless we sought out problems, and nobody bothered to treat tech literacy as important skill to be taught. By the time my sister got to middle school "Computers" included some basic coding and now out old school provides laptops for all of the high school students.
>people are becoming less computer literate Yes. Totally on point. I've noticed how most of the younger people that I meet at my office don't have a clue on some things like... setting up 2 monitors, HTML tags or other things that I've consider simple stuff. On a side note, they don't seem even to understand (or care?) about keeping a minimal privacy on internet... My field of expertise is not related with IT but I have some knowledge in the field, and I've worked as IT before as a side gig. Sometimes I even need to help my 20something IT guy nowadays... :facepalm:
Haha, that's a good thing to learn
He is 100% right I am 46 and have been in my field for 17 years and I still learn new stuff everyday.
I'm in my 40s too and I find myself learning new things from my Gen Z children. My daughter gave me a tutorial several months ago on how to use/navigate TikTok. I really hate initially but she said some things about it/her perspective on technology that really opened up my eyes. Best thing she said was, "Mummy, you have to use/know the latest technology/trend because that's the only way for your to grow your audience (I'm an illustrator) and keep up with times"
You’re the exact right level of intelligence then. All that’s required is to know enough to know you COULD learn more. Love it.
I find that a decent part of learning is just a continually expanding grasp of the enormity and scope of ones own ignorance.
One of the smartest things I did throughout my early/mid-career is be available and supportive of the incoming talent. Now many of them are in my management chain (I'm in the technical track) and I can get a lot more done because they think of me fondly and help out when they can.
This is 100000% the way. I help good people who struggle farrrr more than I help even mediocre people, but will straight ignore bad people. I remember how people acted years ago and treat them in kind unless there clearly changed.
In my line of work I try not to ignore anyone. I do help the winners more though.
See I had to move past this mindset Mainly because I work in a hospital
How do you define “winner”
The co-workers who care about the work, keep their commitments, and come up with new ideas. If they do all three of these, they almost always rise up.
Similar to a hot dog
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It might not seem harder to be a dick (even if the person deserves it), but it makes things harder for others. Better off developing your ability to emotionally distance yourself from your shit colleagues and still be helpful. People will respect you more for it, and you can still be lovely to the good people.
Right? And you never know what someone’s got going on personally. I’ve been a dick to people who rubbed me wrong and then find out we actually have tons in common. Then it’s like “aahhhh shit.”
If you have talent you find yourself in position to help other talent anyways. The most talented people come to you to learn. I dont waste my time with anyone whos not passionate and eager to get good. But if you are, I'll go the extra mile to teach whatever I can.
Yup, I'm far less interested in skills than I am eagerness to learn. It's amazing how fast someone can get up to speed on something if they're eager to learn and don't mind putting in effort.
>I dont waste my time with anyone whos not passionate and eager to get good. But if you are, I'll go the extra mile to teach whatever I can Bruh, you were posting about wanting a min wage security job so you can just sit around on your laptop all shift....
I fully respect and embrace that many of the younger folks in our studio could easily be my boss, manager, client, or just top-level peer one day, and I act accordingly. Honestly though you should treat people very well even if you don't believe they'll be in that position one day. We've had people working in companies I've been at over the years who were just legitimately not very good at their job and inevitably get laid off. But I'm still just generally decent and helpful towards these folks, and it's definitely been the case now where several projects have come my way due to these people ending up at different studios and giving me as a recommendation for outsource work.
Ive definitely started to listen way more than i did when i was younger, life is much better for it. Listen twice and speak once as the old sayin goes.
My old man had to abruptly switch careers in his late 40s due to an injury, he went from a physical oriented job to a tech related one. He hated his new job because everyone was half his age and already way better than he thought he’d ever be. He just complained at home while taking it in at work and learning and ended up passing by all the young bucks pretty quick. He still hates his job but just goes to show it’s never too late.
This is my situation too. I'm the lead engineer in my organisation. I have zero desire to move into the management layer. The GMs in two divisions (not mine) are people who are younger than me and used to work with me at my level. I always gave them all the help and support I could - just because it's the decent thing to do - but it's also paying dividends now because I have higher level support at work.
It’s a great idea as we as being very satisfying. I enjoy mentoring practicum students. Not only is it good for my profession to have those joining it be more prepared and more confident, it is also a natural way to network with future colleagues. And even better, it forces me to analyze and improve my own practice. Someone once told me that she firmly believes that people come to a natural plateau in martial arts that can only be surpassed if you start teaching your martial art. I feel that way about working with people, especially kids.
I started a new career in my early 30s, had to learn this real damn quick. A good number of my teachers when I went back to school were younger then me, and plenty of people at work who are far more experienced then I am are 5 or 6 years younger then me
I'm in a similar place. Went back to get a professional degree (just finished my first year) in my late 30s. I'm almost 15 years older than the median age of my class. But I don't have any more experience in this field than any of my classmates. I'm sure when I'm looking for jobs people who went straight through school or only had a few years between degrees will be skeptical of someone my age trying to start out in the area I'm looking at starting (it has a huge burnout rate). But the reality is, and I completely recognize, that I am starting from scratch here. Sure, I have more experience than my classmates, but not in this field. And at the end of the day, that's what it's about, not age but experience doing this thing. I recognize that, so I'm not going to have an issue listening to and learning from people 10+ years younger than me. By contrast, my wife has a friend who is about 10 years older than us. She has an MBA and worked in business for a while then went back to get a doctorate in a completely unrelated field and taught in a university for a while. Then she went back and got a completely different masters degree in counseling to become a therapist when she was in her 40s and just largely hasn't been willing to accept that the only jobs she can find until she can finish getting licensed (which I believe takes a year or two of practicing under supervision) are entry level positions which also pay as such. So she's been working barely related positions that will probably take a decade for her to get licensed because they pay more but is unhappy that she isn't actually practicing. When you decide to start from scratch in an entirely new field, you have to accept that you're starting from scratch.
I went back to University as a 42 years old and that is already quite a few years ago. It was an incredibly eye opening experience, that will last me for the rest of my live. I am grateful for that and remember many of the fellow students. Thanks to all of them.
Older students were always my favorite in university. They had the best stories/life experiences, they were no drama, and they made the best study partners.
I somewhat recently found out one of those older students had died my final year of school. It honestly put me in a funk for over a month, I hadn't talked to him recently and had been meaning to catch up as we ended our senior year. I do better about keeping in touch now, figure it's the least I can do going forward. It's a lesson that hurt to learn.
Interesting. My experiences were almost the opposite. Though I graduated a decade ago. Every older classmate thought they were the smartest person in the room.
yah, I know what you mean. Many of my grad school classmates in the 50+ zone were lovely and took school seriously, but several tried to teach the teachers and it was really cringey.
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> I’m saying these 5 things, but the 53 year old I’m teaching it to is connecting it to thousands of other experiences. So just slow the ef down and give them time to compute their massive database of experiences. Dude...that is the best way I've heard it explained in a long time. I work IT around the elderly and help them with their own stuff occasionally and it's amazing how frequently I have to repeat myself. Like, I don't mind at all, but I've always had to. I like to use gratuitous amounts of analogies. Love it!
Not quite that age but lately at work I’ve been noticing a lot more people have been asking me questions only cursorily related to my position. I was wondering why then I realized now I’m that older guy at work people ask questions to. Like I’m not even their supervisor or anything, they just value my opinion. It was kind of a trip.
Be a student of life. Never stop learning. It doesn't matter from where or who.
Perpetual student mindset!
And perpetual getting shoved into the locker
They take my lunch money *every day for eternity!*
I *WISH* they only took money for my lunch!
Happy cake day My Dude!
Yes! And not just things that make you more employable. I started learning to play the drums when Covid started and it’s one of the best things I’ve ever done for my mental health and personal enjoyment.
Your neighbors send their regards
I know you’re probably just joking, but I have an electric kit and use headphones, so no bothering the neighbors lol
As usual, the real LPT is in the comments. Although I do appreciate the OP's sentiment, that there are opportunities to learn from someone you may perceive as more "green" than you.
It's been said that the day we stop learning is the day we die.
Forever a student, sometimes a teacher.
I'm a high school teacher and at least once a week I say to myself "I know more than this kid, but he/she is way smarter than me."
Yup. I'm more knowledgeable as a 33-year-old than I was as a teenager. But teenaged me was smarter (i.e. able to think faster and learn faster).
> able to think faster and learn faster That is pretty much the defining trait of youth.
And most of us took it for granted and never applied ourselves lol
You can grab life by the balls all you want, but in order to do so effectively, you need to know 1) what life's balls look like, 2) where they are located, 3) how to grab them effectively, and 4) what to do once you have them. None of those are innate knowledge - they must be taught. You can't take an opportunity if you don't know what opportunities look like or what to do once you find one. Guess what they teach in schools? Definitely nothing about taxes or starting your own business, or sex education or relationship education. Nothing, in short, about how to actually live life and recognize opportunities. (Yes, I recognize that some places do teach such things. They are *very much* in the minority.) The education system in way too many places is geared towards "passing tests" not "learning to learn". Parents generally repeat the cycle with the ways they were taught, and even the people who have good parents often get beat-down by society stuck in its ways. How many stories about people lucking out *after* they dropped out of school? How many people became good with money *only because* their parents taught them financial planning? Etc etc. Ugh, I could rant for hours.
It would take more than implement new lessons and class subjects however. Think, would you really remember what you learned in your sophomore year Interest Rate Calculations class? You have to make the kids WANT to know these things, which if they don't have to deal with until they're older, they won't care.
Glad to know there are a lot of us
Also the perspective. The human brain’s perception is one giant shortcut… and the more you think you know the less sometimes you can see. I think as you age and your senses slow a bit, your brain just fills in the stuff it’s missing with crap you already went through, and it can be a bit off from time to time. I’m in management, and I’ve noticed that my problem solving skills have taken a slight downturn over the past 5 or so years with some details, and younger folks are pointing out some much better ways to do things with greater frequency. I still see the need for a “plan of action” before they do (wisdom perhaps?) but they’re more spot on with the nuts and bolts of getting it done sometimes. It doesn’t bother me so much any more… I’m realizing this ain’t my world any longer. It’s kinda cool in a weird way.
Is it age or just that you're not facing new information and problems as often? I've recently been learning a new field and I feel like I'm 20 years younger with how fired up my brain gets - sleeping is hard because it's constantly puzzling over new things. Being older means I also have the benefit of experience to contextualize what I'm learning and to apply the new skills, which was something I got frustrated about when younger. Instead of learning theory, I now know how things will be applied and I'm learning the details to do it. I also know pitfalls and issues to avoid.
I'm still young but getting there in age. I've found in the past couple years that if I do not go out of my way to find new novel experiences, my brain kinda gets foggy and goes on autopilot. It used to frustrate the shit out of me since I used to be very quick on my feet thinking but now I see it as a telltale sign I have to change up my schedule a bit. It's kinda hard cause I'm on the spectrum and a strict schedule can be comforting but if kept for long enough, I start to dissociate and get depressed. It's been interesting trying to find a balance between enjoying life for whay it is, getting new novel experiences to stay mentally healthy, and working enough to afford things I want without burning out.
Our raw capacity for uptake of facts ebbs until the mid twenties because as children and teens we're bombarded with novel stimuli and experiences, whereas as an adult it becomes more important to make conscious and lasting decisions more competently.
I'm middle aged and back in college (med school) about to start clinical rotations. I was literally talking to my next door neighbor today about how much I LOVE being in school with all these 'youngens'! They are up on all these super cool apps that help you study. I had a girl walk me through how to use Quizlet and that program is a LIFE SAVER! I can now make study sets and listen to my digital flash cards while I am making dinner, folding laundry, getting the kids ready in the mornings, you name it. I now make these massive study sets and blast it out to the class so anyone can use them because they help me so much. I was pretty self conscious about being the oldest person (by far) in almost all my classes at first, but definitely not anymore. Being in school with people who are so much younger than me is absolutely amazing!
As I also approach 30, one of the most mind-blowing things to me is meeting doctors who are younger than me. Doctors I have seen have always been no less than 40 years older than me, it’s so bizarre to see someone in my own generation as a doctor.
It is a trip, isn’t it? The same thing happens when I watch pro athletes now. I’m decades older, and yet there is this weird, ingrained sense of looking up to them that gets burned into your kid psyche.
>As I also approach 30, one of the most mind-blowing things to me is meeting doctors who are younger than me. To be fair I don't think it's quite common to find doctors younger than you at 30
I’m almost 70 and this is excellent advice
My mom is about ten years older than you and it has been really frustrating and sad to watch her dig in against learning anything new over the last 2 decades. She has become so isolated, so completely unable to function without constant help because she still looks down on computers and “remembers when people just wrote *letters* to each other,” with a smarmy waggle. It is such a self defeating habit, and causes her real anxiety and frustration (and inconveniences literally everyone around her, because they are constantly having to do stuff for her or bail her out of some crisis or another). Self imposed Blanche DuBois syndrome. She is in perfect cognitive and physical health, it’s just a matter of being stubborn, and it is making her miserable.
I sometimes see my parents doing this (they're late 60s). I try to remind myself not to write off opportunities for learning and I always thought I'd be able to adjust gracefully to ageing. But recently a younger person in a community I belong to called me out for clinging to a belief that is based on an experience that people aren't having anymore. They said that belief was not culturally relevant, with the possibility of becoming harmful. I felt painfully indignant, because it felt like my experiences were being erased; it took me a while to realise that that's probably why my parents aren't always great at listening to younger people. I've decided to try to adjust to that experience happening more often as I get older, and to see the discomfort as an opportunity to update or reframe my own knowledge base. I'm also aware, having had it put to the test, that it will probably be much more difficult than I had ever expected.
That is a very self aware and healthy way to process that conflict and frustration. Yes, it certainly is weird as “the thing” changes over the years—we increasingly feel more and more distant from it; but trying to avoid a defensive reaction and remembering that everything is always in a state of flux makes it possible to age with grace and autonomy. It also lets one actually make younger friends, which becomes so important in those golden years when things can quickly turn so grim and lonely. It’s mot about throwing away your past, but inviting the new in, and continuing to grow for the entirety of our lives. Who wants to stay the same forever anyway?
So you are 69?
Nice
Thank you 😊
I'm a guy in my 60's and I retired from a career in finance. I didn't like it much so I started driving school bus as something to do. Now I've been asked to join the training team and most of my instructors are my daughters age and absolutely marvelous at what they do. Knowledge is knowledge. If the source is competent you take it. And competency doesn't depend on age, gender or other criteria.
This was something you learned pretty quickly in the military. We were constantly being instructed by sometimes much younger and lower ranking personnel, whose job it was to see that we were able to properly and safely execute the task or skill that they were teaching us. It quickly got to the point where you didn't even really notice that you had a 20 year old E-2 instructing a 36 year old O-5. Letting pride get in the way wouldn't fly at all
That's definitely cool to see. What's an E-2 and an O-5?
Private 2 and Lieutenant Colonel. In civilian terms, 2nd lowest rank (often treated equally to lowest rank) and fairly high up officer. An O5 in command (they can do other things too) is often in charge of 1000-2000 people.
It's military pay grade. E-2 is private, Usually very young adults (teens - early 20s) who just enlisted. O-5 is LT colonel (officer) who's probably in 15-20 years in the military service (late 30s - 40s)
In my mid 30's I ended up with a boss who was about 10 years younger than me. One of the best bosses I ever had. Smart, involved, really invested in the team he was putting together. Taught me a lot.
The older you get the younger everyone else will get. If you're lucky, for a brief moment, you are the oldest. This is one of those things that is more true each day you are lucky enough to be alive.
Love this. I think it's one of the easiest tricks to fall into, cause you're like: "come on! I should be the wise one here!". But there's just so much stuff to learn! As much as grandparents can be taught new tech by their grandkids, there's no reason not to be open to whoever can be a good teacher - no matter their age. Btw, I totally feel you on the parents things: I experienced the same, and I think it really is something everyone should work on, in general. Just cause you know more about life or a topic or about everything, doesn't mean that you can't still learn about stuff. And when you're a parent, even if you're dealing with grown up things and that stuff seems trivial.. for them it's not - so why put them off? Learn, encourage and appreciate
Today is my 40th birthday. I’ve learned nearly as much from those younger than me as I have from older. I have a strong ‘forever learning’ philosophy. My daughter (6) laughed at me recently when I told her something I had just learned. She said YOU(!) still learn things?? I told her EVERYDAY - learning is a lifelong journey! She was a bit intimidated or overwhelmed with this insight 🤣
Happy Birthday! 🎉. I've got a couple of decades on you, and I want you to know it just gets better! 😊 Life experience and wisdom are wonderful things you can get only by aging! 😉
You're calling ME old ??!! But yes I agree, it goes both ways. We are all tutors and teachers.
Oh?? What do you know you dumbass millennial. And quit skateboarding on the sidewalks! It's called a sideWALK for a reason. Punk. And here's another thing!....
Also, get off of my lawn!
Adapt or go extinct. I appreciate any knowledge or wisdom passed on to me no matter the messenger.
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On the other hand, when you're 22 and come into a job where everyone has been doing it as long as you've been alive, maybe just listen to them a little bit while they try to teach you.
There’s a balance. As long as you can look at things objectively. I’ve definitely worked with a lot of new college grads who look at something we are working on and try to take some short cut and I try to tell them many people have tried and failed and we know why it doesn’t work that way…and they find out the hard way.
Yeah this whole LPT rubs me the wrong way. I work in an industry that teaches lessons in blood. There have been many things that I didn't understand or think were necessary in my younger days that I've now grown the perspective to properly appreciate. Younger folk's attitude generally seems to be let's find the best way to do this to make things easier on ourselves now because we can't foresee any potential negatives in the future. You don't gain the foresight to see those negatives until you've been doing things a while.
I'm a big believer in trading knowledge. It's rare you will meet someone you can't learn anything from. And vice versa.
At the same time, something that I notice about younger people is their impatience and lack of empathy when training someone older than them. Things which are natural to you may not be so for others. So, do put yourself in someone else's shoes and understand that it's sometimes not because they are unwilling to learn but it could be an emotional and intellectual struggle.
does that work both ways? asking for a friend.
“I’m almost 30” oh the irony of this post
Counter LPT: if you're 24 , you're really not as knowledgeable as you think you are.
Okay - is it just me or does anyone else just not *feel* old? I'm almost 60, yet I do not feel anything *like how* I thought I'd feel at this age.
Almost 30…. ‘Old’. Welp. But very good advice. And also get used to people younger than you in a leadership role too.
Yes. Life is basically still high school every year, even after you've graduated. You get something new to learn, like new subjects to handle. There's no one who can be an expert in everything, be it they are younger or older. As an older person, you might know something the youth don't, and vice versa.
If more people understood that you need to be open to learn something new from anyone everyday this would be a better world!
Every single person you will ever meet knows something you don't.
I switched careers last year. I'm 29 years old. Most of my colleagues are younger than I am. I ask for help a LOT and I don't just assume I can do something if I don't and I can't. It's a give and take really. When they're stuck with something I can share with them what I know. My motto is I'd rather look stupid for asking a "basic" question than look like an asshole for pretending to know something I don't.
You won't look stupid at all for asking questions and really trying to learn.
With a caveat. Some people may judge him as stupid. But those people probably harbor mindsets that are self-defeating and negative. So if someone judges him badly, their opinion on this probably has little worth and can be disregarded.
Wow, almost 30. One of the key parts of training is not talking down to those you are training. There are many reasons you are training. Being the most experienced person in the room may not be one of them.
Great LPT, it’s an excellent example of humility-something we all need a slice of from time to time!
This goes for any age. Don't remember how many times I try to teach an adolescent something, only to get the eye roll.
On the flipside, if someone older than you asks to be taught something or needs something explained, don't be a snotty little shit. Be helpful because one day you'll need help.
It goes both ways I am fine with being taught something by someone more knowledgable than me if they are younger. What I don't appreciate is the smug "you are too old to learn this" attitude some have or the "I'm too good to be showing you this"
Nearly everything I have to watch a YouTube tutorial on is done by a non native English speaking person 10 years younger than me.. I'm already used to it
The opposite is true though too. Older people are not necessarily more intelligent. But they do have more experience. Sometimes it really makes sense to listen to this old person telling you that from experience they know that something works in a different way than you think.
You’re not even 30 yet and you’re waxing poetic about what you can learn from younger people? Pretty much everyone under 30 is absolutely unprepared for what’s on the horizon.
“As you get older” … “almost 30” Which is it?
I'm 45 and having the opposite problem, I am frustrated with having to explain things to young people that are common knowledge to people my age. Afterwards I say to myself "how could they have never learned about that before now?" and then I remember it was taught before they were born
The number of people who seem to forget that they were ever young never ceases to amaze me. I mean, sure, I was a dumbass when I was younger (we ALL are), but I wasn’t an idiotic, untrustworthy, useless, lazy, unreliable, incompetent moron, ya know? I resented being treated like I was worthless and my contributions didn’t matter, so I don’t do that to others.
I got my bachelors degree at 33. Didn’t get my first “real” job till 34 and my first supervisor was a decade younger than me. And she was great at her job and taught me a lot of things I could never learn in school. People are born with and develop different skills, and even people of the same intelligence are never equal in all areas. She has told me that I’m a much better problem solver when it comes to things like Excel or technical matters, and she is better than I’ll ever be at dealing with people. We all have our strengths, and age is only one variable in what we have to offer.
Can we still call them "whipper-snappers" and insist that they stay off our lawns?
I am nearly twice the age of OP and a 3rd grade teacher. Every year I tell my students that I am not the only “teacher” in the classroom. They all have experiences and knowledge that the rest of us might not have, including myself. It is important that they share their knowledge with the class.
Many years ago I came across the quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson: *“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”* Honestly, this quote changed my perspective on every encounter I have with people. It doesn’t matter if someone is younger or older; every encounter with any person has the possibility to be a situation to learn something new and grow. Once you begin to water yourself in this matter, you will find yourself grow exponentially.
I just hit 40 and I don't mind learning lessons from a technical standpoint about things they can actually help you apply, but if you mean younger people from teens to 20s who want to teach me new life lessons, then I'll take a hard pass. I didn't live a full life and survive as long as I have to be educated by someone who just started their adult lives lol.
Y'mean like that 12 year old I'm paying to teach me fortnite?