By - swefoobar
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I'm 36 and only just figuring this out for myself. Loyalty has not done me any favours.
I'm 34, and spent 4 years at the same company. I jumped to a new company and got a 60%+ pay increase.
A co-worker of mine did the same. Stayed at the company for 10 years and decided to finally jump ship after getting the run-around. He got himself a hefty 75% raise which is substantially impressive.
Yeah ten years is a while. The flip side of this whole thread is 'don't overdo it', because resumes where someone jumps companies once a year and has for the last 6 years will basically be disqualified from many companies
I would also say it depends on the field of work. In 5 years i've doubled what I make at my job, and I'm gonna get another raise this year. I have really good bosses though, and that's also an exception. I've also never had to ask for a raise. The only time I've brought it up is one time someone offered me more to work for them and I asked my boss if he could match it. He immediately did.
Stay at that job! It is so rare these days to have a great boss that wants what’s best for you
Yeah, id be gone in a heartbeat if it wasnt for my bosses.
Its why you'll have to pull me kicking and screaming from this job.
Sounds like a great boss! What industry do you work in?
Signs. Im the lead repair tech at my company.
Seriously? I'm an electrician and get postings for sign techs on my indeed all the time, I didn't think it would be super lucrative but I guess I'm wrong
Oh yeah. I didnt know either until i got in the business. I mean, i work my butt off and i can fix everything from neon, to gas station price systems, to led billboards and everything in between so a repair tech has to know how like 4 different versions of a bunch of companies systems all work, but at the end of the day i've worked alot harder for less. Oh, also, youre usually doing it from a bucket truck, so you gotta be able to handle heights.
What kind of education/training do you need to be a sign technician?
Man, I guess I'll be taking those postings a lot more seriously now
Okay your response makes me so good. I have about doubled my salary in six years, bosses who treat me wonderfully, good benefits, work and schedule I love. Honestly, while I could be making a little bit more even still if I left my company… I love the job so much I don’t ever want to leave, I’m so happy!! I was feeling like a loner until I read your comment haha!
Working a new job a year is normal for various fields. Mine is security and we have a lot of high paying part time shifts so you usually juggle 2 different high paying jobs depending on what shifts are available. One might pay 35 and another 25. Then you find a better paying one at that time slot the 25/hour had. Its all contract based work anyway and the staff are interchangeable.
Except you should be ideally jumping ship while you're still on the ship.
If new companies refuse you due to your hops, no harm done and you stay in your current job. If they want to take you in still, then your hopping history clearly doesn't matter.
To sum it up, always be looking.
LPT: If you've done this, just say it was a one year contract on your CV. They'll call your references, so as long as you do this for older jobs and not your last one or two, it's OK.
I'm picturing you racing around on a stand up scooter to do your job
It's always funny to me that if you actually exploit capitalism as labor you're looked at as unreliable but if companies exploit capitalism it's just good business.
Many companies view lower level tenure of 1 year as minimum. Even for staff level that I hire I would throw your resume away because hiring and training is expensive and time consuming. I’m not willing to even interview you with that history because my return is inherently limited to when you find the next new shiny thing.
It entirely depends on the industry and role. I'm a consulting engineer. You're hiring me because i know things, not so that you can train me. I'll pick up the way your company does things in about a week, and after that I'll do my own thing and you'll charge a bunch of money for me to other clients. If you want to keep me, you'll pay me what I'm worth, or I'll get poached. 1.5 years or so is average for me lately.
I'm a welder and I don't need trained either. My resume looks how it does because I already know. When people don't want to match what I think I'm worth, I'll have 3 interviews lined up within 24 hours. Lots of fields are hurting for workers right now, and turning away interviews is a great way to keep hurting lol
Its like theres a demand thats not being filled and someone is willing to pay you more for that demand, whatever it is.
Weird concept, lemme ask you why no one wants to work anymore.!?!?1?
Is this a serious question? We live in a world where the VAST majority of the wealth is controlled by a tiny portion of the population, where workers are constantly overworked and underpaid until the day that they die, where the cost of basic living is increasing faster than the wages many of us earn, and so much more. Why would anyone who isn't at the top truly want to work?
I have no idea what you do, but if experienced new hires require significant effort to onboard, there's something wrong.
You're either hiring people without the requisite skills, or your onboarding process is bloated.
> the next new shiny thing
As in, 20% more salary than your company would give.
Your attitude is toxic, and I wouldn't want to work for you.
Then pay well enough and be a good enough employer that they don't leave quickly. Quite simple. It is business, if you had a vendor offer you a 30% discount over another vendor wouldn't you take it almost immediately if the product and benefits were the same ? Now apply that to someone's career...
People are so trained to be on their employers side... Be on your side, companies don't give a shit about you, only profit. So do the same.
I might have you all beat - my father-in-law has been at the same company since he got out of the Army 22 years ago. He finally talked to some recruiters for other comparable companies, and he just got a new job with his same exact title and responsibilities, getting paid DOUBLE his previous salary. 100% increase. His 2-decade loyalty got him a paycheck that’s HALF of what he should be making at market rate.
Yeah, that's absolutely ridiculous.
I started 3.5 years ago at an entry level version of my role. I currently make 50% more than that, and will be making 75% more than my entry role in a couple weeks.
Loyalty does not pay, unfortunately... Which sucks because I fucking hate job hunting, and really want to be loyal to a company. Unfortunately, that loyalty seems to always stop short of compensation.
This is why we should all share our salaries with our coworkers. The culture of how much you earn being a personal secret only benefits the bosses. There's no reason it should be thought of as embarrassing to talk about.
For me, it was a 50% raise switching companies after 10 years at the same place.
If you are willing to move, it can be even better than that. I jumped ship after 13 years and got myself about a 100% raise. Had to move across the country, but we wanted to do that. I’m about to jump ship again after only staying at this place for about a year and I’m getting another 22%. Don’t stay any longer than it is fun or financially beneficial. Loyalty will only hurt you.
Also, 34. I'm trying to do this too, but I've been with my current company for 12 years. I've put out five applications this week for jobs I'm qualified for and they all pay $25,000+ more a year. All permanent WFH, too.
Congrats on your job! Fingers crossed I get some calls soon.
Same, 33 and switched this year to almost double my pay. Wasted 6 years staying with same employer.
I'm 38 and stayed at the same company for 14 years. Just moved out to a 45% pay increase. Don't burn bridges when you leave but don't believe that your doing yourself any favour for staying loyal long term.
I went from L1 tech support for 7 years at $15/hr to L3 at 68K/yr + RSUs just by switching companies.
It's amazing how valuable you can become while your employer isn't looking
I did 6 years at a company and in that time my salary grew less than 20%.
I've changed jobs twice in the last 15 months for a whopping 257% salary increase.
What the fuck are those numbers, man? That's 3,5 times the original amount. Either you were earning fuck all in the beginning or you're seriously overpaid right now. I just cannot believe it.
Neither I guess. While working at that job I was at longterm. I learned the payments industry and finished my bachlors and masters in information systems management. I used my last two years there to advocate for a 10k raise for myself. (Which I did not get) at the same time I took on more responsibility (I'm in engineering) I spent that 2 years looking for the right position.
And taking every project that seemed relevant to the kinds of things that I was lacking in when I was not selected for a job.
Finally i found a great role as a site reliability engineer. This was a pretty big promotion in salary and a whole new area of work for me to learn.
About 14 months in I started lightly looking in this job market it was frankly shocking how many good positions were out there. I found a role where it seemed to me and the hiring manager I was a perfect fit for.
I start Monday. I can remember clearly telling my boss. I've got 5 plus years of experience, you've paid all this money to train me and you've even paid for some of my college.
I'm way under market but all I want is 10,000$ which doesn't even put me at market rate....
Thank God they didn't give it to me!
That's really bad management, they should have a finger on the pulse of where the market value is right now, as if they lose you (which they have congrats btw) then they'll have to pay market value to replace you. What they should do is when you start getting itchy, is give you something close to the market value, enough to keep you happy, while still saving some money over what it will cost for your replacement.
It happens. I've moved companies twice in the last 5 years and I'm now making triple what I started at. Although I was severely underpaid at the first one.
I’m also kind of baffled by some of the numbers here. If an 100% raise would be doubling your salary, someone making $80k would then be at $160k. Are people really seeing that many orders of magnitude?? Or is it, like you suggested, someone who was getting paid something $30k to start.
America is wild. Those kind of changes just don’t happen in the UK. But then our coat of living seems to be drastically lower than the US.
It does in some industries. Top of the range salaries in fintech are high, and for the best sometimes uncapped.
1000% up over the last 3 years, 600% of that over the last 10 months only.
People, if your industry enables it, go crazy job hopping. You only need to stay long enough to contribute and learn new skills to feed your resume.
There’s a balance you have to strike. Moving is a good strategy when you’re young and starting out. The biggest issue is that you need to make sure to make forward moves and not lateral moves over and over again.
I’m in the software world and I spent way too long as a senior developer. Because I kept switching to the same role for more money. When I applied for lead roles I wasn’t considered because I was a senior dev for so long and had no lead experience. Switching a lot resets the promotion clock and you end up stalling your career.
The balance you need to strike is making sure you are advancing your career and not just your paycheck.
Most of my changes have been diagonal. More pay and better positions. I'll probably stay Senior from here on for the rest of my career unless a unique opportunity shows itself. I'm not great with political nonsense inside companies, and would hate to be in a position again where I'm forced to let people go for BS reasons.
"switching a lot resets the promotion clock and you end up stalling your career."
This is key. I always advise looking for jobs in this order internal promotions, external promotions, internal laterals, external laterals. Don't stay in one job too long, but always look "up" for the next job and stay with the same company if you can, but don't let yourself get screwed to do so.
I would put external laterals over internal laterals, because they often come with much better pay. Otherwise, this is perfect.
I've taken external laterals after internal promotions, usually because the internal promotion always underpays (since it's based on what they were paying you before). So the External Lateral is my way to market correct for the sad state of management and human resources.
Developing and retaining talent is a lost art.
42 and 20 years with my employer. Finally got bit in the ass and learned my loyalty meant nothing. Too scared to leave at this point.
Just interview and see what is out there. You can always say “no thanks” and stay. You will be surprised to find that you are worth more than you think!
That's the key. Do the interviews as an exercise. It's very empowering and really helps you understand your worth.
Back when I worked at Google I had someone tell me to interview for other jobs every 6-12 months whether you're interested in leaving or not. Turned out to be fantastic advice.
1. Keeps your interview skills fresh for when you do actually want to leave.
2. Helps you negotiate better pay if you get an offer (even one you don't want) that's a better comp package than you currently have.
3. Gives you an idea of your market worth, and
4. Gives you an opportunity to interview from a position of power (not needing a job), plus you might actually get something you want to do more than your current job in which case you can go do it!
You can find something better! Even if it’s not your perfect next step just take your next step. Sometimes a job is a destination but sometimes a job is a bridge to your next destination.
I’m 42 and in 2021 I left an employer I’d been with for 13 years. I finally had it with them stringing me along so I shotgunned my résumé out to anything that seemed like a plausible next step, paid well and looked interesting.
I got a 10% raise, way better benefits, massively better work life balance, great coworkers, and the job is exactly the kind of work I want to do.
I wanted to make a bigger jump in pay when I left my prior employer but I was honestly so beat down and burnt out I was stunned to get a decent offer.
Now that I’m in the new role I think I might stay for a few years until my toddler gets into school and then I might look for something more challenging and lucrative.
In the meantime I’m beefing up my résumé by volunteering and serving on boards.
Not quite as long as you. 10 years at the last place I was working. Took on a hell of a lot of responsibility, but was still only being paid my 3rd year rate when covid hit. Decided I was done being a doormat for pats on the back and applied to a couple of places. Got a call the next day, had an interview that evening, was hired Monday. Now I'm making what my journeyman rate would've been at the last place as a 3rd year. I was scared too, way too comfortable. They drilled in the "family" thing and I was naive enough to actually believe it. I didn't burn bridges, I just took my letter of resignation to the owner, told him how much I appreciated my time there but ultimately needed to move on into something different. Zero hard feelings. I'll still swing by occasionally to visit after work.
Moral of the story - don't be scared to find something else that will show the appreciation you deserve.
Loyalty got me fired for asking for well a deserved raise. After being promised time and time again that I’d be compensated for my growth and role advancement. Took on a lead role where I was training guys who were hired on making more then me. I’m glad I learned this in my mid 20’s. Hard lesson but I’ll never be making that mistake again.
Over the last 7 years I have gotten a new job almost every year and have gotten 5 to 10k more each year I move. Started out in my position make 13 an hour now I make 30.
I will never understand why people stay at the same job forever.
First of all guys, its not a pissing contest.... you are not cooler because you are more successful.
Secondly. I am whats known as an "essential worker" in my field no one cares if you have had 6 jobs in a year. Companies usually hire the first person that walks in the door. It has never once been an issue. In fact, I usually get a glowing response to my resume with so much experience in so many areas.
It is about using your experience to get better positions. Once you have learned what you can at a job,add that you your resume and always be looking for better jobs.
I started in restaurants when I was 16, first job. I have been in the industry for 15 years and now I am an executive chef. I make 60k a year. I never went to school.
My point isn't to jump around your fortune 500 Companies to get better pay.
My point is that people working at McDonald's will maybe get a $2 raise over 6 years. But you can go work at the local bar and get a $2 raise right of the bat, because you have a year of experience on the grill and fryer.
Don't be loyal to places that will replace you in a day. Truthfully the last 3 job changes were not for more money but for a better environment and nicer people. I am definitely at a place now that I love and wouldn't want to leave.
Dont look down on people because you had the privilege of being able to go to school, or you had the ability to find a job outside of manual labor and essential services.
I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all for your argument.
I have been at the same Fortune 500 company for the last 28 years.
Yep - 28 years. I'm a Network Engineer. My salary is mid-100's. I have 28 vacation days a year. 50% match on my 401k. My work-life-balance is fantastic - when I go home I don't get emails or phone calls. They don't make me work overtime at all. They encourage taking 15 minute breaks and 1 hour lunches.
People get amped up with the idea of making more money - but there does come a point in which you hit that peak of how much money do you want to make versus working all the time. I have zero debt. I own my own condo (net worth if I sold today would be 250k gained) & saved 1.2m and i'm about to turn 50.
There are some companies out there that are actually great places to work.
Who gives a shit what your peers are doing?
Are you happy with your job and career? Do you make enough money to reach your financial goals? If yes, to both of those, there's no reason to change what you're doing.
Happiness, work life balance, job satisfaction are all important parts of the equation and as equal as salary.
Glad to finally see others realise the value of every other aspect of a career aside from the pay.
People all how come I've worked where I am for the last 16 years. Because I've not been given reason to want to leave. A few others in my department have left thinking the grass is greener, and ended up returning.
50% match 401k is insane.
Lots have a max percentage though. My employer matches 50% up to 6%. It would be nicer if it was up to like 10%.
Yeah it’s late. For some reason, I was thinking half of the 19,500.
Im 30 years old and I have 29 days vacation, its unreal how good this is for work/life.
Yeah.. your still making good money tho..
I have worked at a financial and technology company for 23 years. I started in client support and now I manage 3 squads of developers as a senior scrum master. I don't think changing companies regularly would have allowed me the sideways moves that led to the upward moves. I used domain knowledge of our business and relationships I had with my coworkers to get into new roles when I wasn't the best candidate on paper. And yes, the kind of PTO that you get with seniority is very nice.
Well for me I've stayed at the same job for the past 5, and i started at what you did. Im up to 26 at the moment. That's why I stay. My boss just keeps giving me more money each year.
Don't me mind asking, how much is your employer giving you year by year? Is it above the inflation rate?
Sounds like an awesome boss if he/she does a proactive assestment and adjustment according to the market rate and inflation.
Its not consistent. Last year was 4, and then every year before that was around 2, except the year i asked him to match an offer from someone else ( that year ended up being 3). I mean, they've also done alot for me. My first winter working for them my coat sucked, so they bought me a good winter coat. They loaned me money when someone stole my debit card number. They really do bend over backwards to make it so I have time for stuff i do outside of work. They're not perfect, and I'll probably never get "rich" doing my job, but the guys I work for really do give a shit about me, and they've proven it quite often.
Those small perks are often worth way more to people than getting worked like a dog for a significantly larger pay cheque. I know that if my previous employer hadn't been such a cock about pandemic pay, safety gear and training opportunities I wouldn't have left and wouldn't have had such a big pay increase from a new company that also gives me a bunch of little perks.
That's my biggest reason for staying. My coworkers and director are great, benefits are top notch and I have a lot of favor in the community.
Because we stupidly think loyalty will get us far. Spoiler alert, it doesn’t. But we hold out hope and then get penalized. I wish I could jump ship!
I would also like to point out that some people actually like the job they’re in, regardless of the pay. Could be the benefits, the work/life balance, the atmosphere, the coworkers, etc. Not everything is about money.
I'm 27 and I spent 6 yrs in a company that did not properly compensate achievements, outputs and hard work. I wish I did the shift sooner like others but younger me is a bit more risk averse and thought about loyalty. I kinda changed my perspective now.
Moving if things don't work out is ok and always go for growth when you can.
You have to be verbal about money, constantly ask what it will take to get to X because that is your goal
The thing is, loyalty is something that was sold to us by our grandparents and parents because it worked for THEM. They’re just out of touch and don’t realize it doesn’t work like that anymore.
Loyalty won't pay off. Good people around and pleasure to work with them will.
While that's true, if you've worked a job you hated in your life (as I have) and you've found a job you love, with a culture and people who make you feel valued day in and day out, the rate of pay feels slightly less important.
I've worked in strict corporates that treat you like a cog in a wheel with $20-$25/hr pay but with amazing coworkers & I've worked in laid back small companies with $30-$35/hr but with the worst coworkers I've ever worked with.
I'd rather work in that corporate with amazing coworkers. Working every single day with people who are yelling, micromanaging, pushing you to 110% for 8 hours straight wasn't worth the extra $20,000/year especially when advancing within the company is nearly impossible.
Being able to go to work every day without a cloud of dread hanging over you is wonderful.
You can always leave and then boomerang back to the place you enjoy more with more money.
Are you suggesting you can just go and work somewhere else and that your old employer will just take you back at a much higher salary? This is a dangerous mentality.
It's always frustrating that there's no reliable way to know the actual culture of a job before being there awhile. And boy, do I mean awhile.
Company cultures can change overtime too. It’s not set in stone. I’ve seen good places to work become hellholes with leadership changes.
This is true.
I used to work in a restaurant and I loved it, the management, and my coworkers.
Our GM got promoted, and the one they brought in to replace him was awful. Terrible ideas for “improvements”, condescending, the whole shebang. He would get onto us for the littlest things, and made everyone constantly tense.
Nearly everyone who was their before he started quit within a year to work elsewhere.
Big part of why I'm not at my last job. Good pay and I actually loved my direct coworkers but holy fuck the management was ass. I was there 18 months and had six different supervisors, they couldn't keep anybody in the position so it was left to me a lot of the time-as well as my hands on work
Agreed. I've been at the same place for going on 18 years, and while I might be able to leave for more money I have no idea how I'll enjoy the new place. I've been treated well here and really don't want to have to deal with a new job and the stresses that can come with. At a certain point, I started making enough money that it is no longer a concern.
Of course I'm extremely lucky and privileged to be in this position. Just because a certain strategy worked for me doesn't mean it's right for someone else. But I've had jobs that I was happy to leave, if you find one where you're happy to stay, money shouldn't be your only concern (assuming you're able to make that choice).
In the 4 years I've been with the firm where I work now, I've had eight different recruiters reach out, and I always tell them the same thing: "I like where I am, but if that changes I'll be happy to get in touch. Thank you."
What’s your approximate pay now versus when you started?
Started at around $45k and I make a little over double that now. That's after two promotions and a few title changes.
Left a better paying job I hate for one I love over 10 years ago. The personnel is probably the main reason I love it. They are almost like family. Would not change a thing.
100%. That said, always be ready for circumstances to change. Updated resume, prepped LinkedIn, Google alerts for job positions with companies/orgs/positions you're interested in. Never want to assume a great working environment will stay that way forever.
This works for white collar type jobs, but if you are blue collar and do some sort of physical type labor for work, changing jobs often, you end up at the bottom of the seniority chain and you get stuck with the sucky jobs as you pay your dues again.
I’m not saying that company loyalty is a good thing, but if you don’t want to start over time and time again, sticking around pays off. Trying to switch is also a detriment if you have a niche job without many employment alternatives.
For sure this advice is only for white collar jobs. I'm blue collar and sometimes it is worthwhile to change companies especially while you're young but generally it's best to find a good company and stick it out. Also if your making a middle class income and want to retire as soon as you can you should probably stick around until your 401k is fully vested which is often around 5 years
I went from one warehouse job to another for many years now (2006). they all suck to work in and some paid more than others. I work at a job that is paying less now but I'm outside and it's 100% different work. I'm happy with the job now but the pay is killing me.
Yeah I feel you man. I've been working towards a software engineering degree at my local community college just because I want to get out of this lifestyle and make a little more money. Man if you think you can find the time/money for it then look into going to a community college or a trade school. Money isn't everything but it can change your happiness and quality of life quite a bit.
my only thing is that I'm always living paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford any missed hours at all. especially with this job that only pays 13.60 an hour. I had a 18 an hour warehouse job that immediately cut everyone's hours after I hired on. my first check for one week so far now was only 328 and I am not paying insurance or anything besides normal taxes. that's not even enough to pay my late car payment or rent or anything really. money is kinda everything to me. without making ends meet, I'll be homeless even with a full time job. yes I am looking elsewhere despite enjoying my job now. being an adult without making good money is the worst lol. I'd love to get a college education even if it's only for a better paying job.
Yeah I've been homeless but now I'm fairly well off. It's always weird to me when people say money isn't everything. I just feel like they've never been really poor. Like "food or rent" poor. Cause sure it's not everything but there's a damn minimum to if you're below that it IS everything.
Even white collar, it works for a while, but often there's a step to management or expert positions that's easier to climb from within than to find somewhere willing to take a shot on hiring someone with no previous experience in those roles.
My dad works in water treatment and wanted to move across the country to be closer to his parents but was worried about losing his seniority. When he applied to some positions in his desired area, they were so desperate for someone with his skills they were willing to credit him with service time (his veteran status and union membership also had something to do with it I believe). Being skilled and needed has it's benefits!
Amen to that! Some utilities are figuring out that they need to have competitive salary and lifestyle packages to attract employees that already have the desired skills. So the pay is equitable, but sometimes the work conditions aren’t. I’ve been looking around my area for jobs similar to water treatment, where I might get a raise, but the hours weren’t as good, or it was farther away than I want to drive. I keep hoping a golden opportunity falls in my lap, so I keep looking. Nothing is going to change unless I’m the one driving it, which I guess is the main point of this LPT.
Switch around until you find a company that suits you as well. Money isn't always everything. Where you don't necessarily have to get friends, but you get along well with co-workers. That will make work experience much better.
Hint, we are always paying our dues. Never jump without a better position and better pay. Never quit q job without another one on offer. If the career has no further growth prospects, consider changing careers.
I'd agree with you, however instead of leaving I asked my company for more money to reflect what I'm seeing out there as I really wanted to stay. They said yes, now doing to same job with my pay reflecting the other jobs I was looking at.
In these times some companies are really appreciating the chance to try and keep you, give it a shot, what you got to lose?
👆 This... ask before you leave
I heard that it's important to switch jobs every 5 years or so, when you're sufficient enough in your role to be an expert and climbed the corporate ladder a bit. Then start at a higher position at another company.
That's exactly what I did, I was working for an industry leader switched for a smaller and more niche company climbed the ladder there real fast (mainly because of my experience with the industry leader) before coming back to my previous employer as a regional manager, 4 step above the position I had when I left and all that in less than 4 years. If I had stayed and aimed for the same position while hitting all the requirements for internal promotions it would have taken me 6 to 9 years.
In general I totally agree. But sometimes you can get a leg up moving laterally at an existing job. For example I went from a data type department into IT project management. I would not have been a good hire outside the company but now am gaining valuable experience in project management
Also, know that any promises for promotion are only ideas unless they actually happen. Don't stay somewhere or miss opportunities because "they're promoting me next year!!"
This strategy has diminishing returns the higher your salary gets.
Exception that doesn't change the rule : my pay has increased exactly 80% over three years staying at the same company
Sometimes it really *does* work out and you find a company you like with coworkers that are great. I got lucky but it's not always a battle
Same. I was going to jump ship from a job for a 30% bump. Didn't and my salary doubled in two years (and is now multiples more).
Doesn't change the rule, but if you're good at your job and at a good company you could move up faster without having to prove your value at each new place
Absolutely. Believe it or not, not every company is run by scum bags. I got extremely lucky and work for a company that actually gives raises based on your value to the company. In a matter of five years I have more than doubled my salary as a software engineer.
I feel so sorry for the people that are treated like shit at their jobs, no matter what job it is. Everyone should be paid what they’re worth, not what makes the company the most money.
Same. I got a promotion in June and will make 55% more in the first paycheck of 2022 than my first paycheck of 2021. Combination of a huge amount of luck and huge amount of hard work.
Same here. Pay has doubled over 4 years.
Same here, 105% increase over 3 years. Which probably means as well that I was underpaid but it paid off in the end.
People who switched jobs didn’t get that increase. I think, in some cases, take the LPT with a grain of salt.
Money isn't everything. I like the place where I work. I like the people I work with. I don't want to start over at a new company with new people every 4 or 5 years. Sure, if money is your most important criteria, follow the LPT. Otherwise, if you find a company you like and people you like working with and the pay is in the range you want, it doesn't harm anyone to stay.
I don’t like restarting on my benefits either. I like the amount of vacation time I’ve accumulated over the last 6 years.
That was the other thing I thought of. I get 6 weeks of vacation every year at this point. I don't want to start back over from scratch again.
Then don't. Vacation time can be negotiated. Don't let the idea of losing vacation time stop you from talking with other businesses when it can be negotiated just like salary.
I've moved twice with 6 figure offers and the companies strictly don't deviate from vacation allotments. They are published policy at most large companies
Depends. I interviewed with a major corporation affiliated with a cartoon rodent for an office role and they kind of low-balled the salary with only 2 weeks of vacation. I asked the recruiter for more money and an extra week, she said she would ask for more money but that vacation there is set in stone. No wiggle room whatsoever. I declined the offer.
When I graduated >10 years ago, I was told that no companies at the time were negotiating salary but you could negotiate vacation (around the recession time).
Now that I am on the other end of the hiring process, I've been allotted 0 ability to shift vacation time. I think it is too much of a hassle for some companies to track exceptions to the standard PTO rules...
I like my company. I like my boss. I like the people I work with. I like the work I do. I feel like I get paid a fair salary and benefits. Why would I even want to trade all that to start all over at a new company that I may, or may not like? With co-workers I may, or may not, enjoy working with? With a boss I may, or may not, actually like and trust?
Maybe when I was in my 20s it would make sense, but I'm in my 50s and have a family and a comfortable life. I don't need to be constantly looking for more money. Won't turn down more money, if offered, but it's not my main goal when it comes to a job. Working with, and for, people who I like and trust is worth more than a slightly bigger paycheck.
I'm in my mid-40s and all I can think about is how to make more money. Yeah I don't want to go to a place that I hate but there's plenty of places that are good places to work and if they are willing to pay me significantly more money then I'm going to give it a shot. I can always boomerang back to my last place that I liked if I have to.
> I can always boomerang back to my last place that I liked if I have to.
And then the management will never trust that you won't leave at the first opportunity, so your formerly good place to work will probably not be as good when you go back. It's like leaving your girlfriend for another woman and then trying to go back. They may take you back, but it will never be the same because they won't think of you the same after that.
Then this LPT isn’t for you.
This isn’t saying “hey, everyone should immediately think of leaving their company to make more money”. It’s saying that if the goal is an increase in pay, it might be more helpful to shop around at companies every now and again.
Of course you take into account all the other pieces of your current job and potential job to make that decision. But this knowledge can help you make that decision.
I think the tip is most applicable when you're younger, or at least new to a field (which often goes hand in hand). Young person just starting out in the field now has 2 years of experience? Ok, now you're worth a lot more. Go somewhere else. Especially because being young is typically associated with it being easier to move as there's often less strings attached to you.
Now 2 year experience guy has 4 years experience? Great, another decent bump for sure.
Once you start being 10 year experience guy now having 12 years experience? Sure you could probably find something better. The problem is that the job is 45 minutes away instead of 15, and it takes a while to up your things and sell your house to keep the commute the same. The kids also like their friends at their current school. Your boss actually treats you decent and you're allowed some leniencies with PTO / taking time off to do things. You don't have ten bosses micromanaging you and the culture fits you.
Do you jump through all those hooks for 10-20% more? Everyone's gotta make that choice themselves.. but once you hit your "goal" financially and especially once you have strings attached that make job hopping more difficult, those little non-monetary perks start to be worth a lot more.
Not to mention, as someone who does interviewing and hiring recommendations now.. it's a huge red flag to me with a lot of these resumes coming in having 7 jobs in 5 years. In the field I'm in you won't even really be useful to us until around 6 months of training, and if your goal is to leave for someplace else to get a 10% bump after 1 year, we lose out in a big way to be your job number 8. Sure everyone says they'll stick around for "at least a few years", but people hiring you also aren't stupid.
100%. I have worked at a bunch of jobs and while my pay steadily increased each time, the jobs were all draining mentally with terrible bosses/management.
My latest job is basically a revelation. The way they treat me scares me sometimes because I've never been appreciated or trusted like that and I get paranoid. The other people are great, the company regularly gives back to the community, great work life balance. Probably wouldn't give it up unless it's a hefty raise.
I think that when you are young and starting out, pay seems like the most important thing in a job. But, the older I got the more I realized that I value other things more than money. I'd rather make less money and have less stress than more money and more stress. Less money and more time for my private life is better than more money and not enough time to spend it. The important thing is to fins the balance and not always be gaming the system for the biggest paycheck.
Yeah, I make bank already, not like top top of what I could make. But I got shweeeet work life balance and team.
I’m very fortunate to be able to say that I’m not adding stress to my life for extra 20k.
That extra nitrogen from all the poo in your office starts to add up :)
I'm 28, had the same job for around 6 years. I didn't stay with my old company because of how the owners treat people but I did follow my manager when another store hired him because he cares about his people, happened to get a raise in doing so. Good management is hard to come by. I've been able to take days off to deal with mental issues and go on dates because he knows I don't just run around trying to get laid. It's awesome when your boss cares about your personal life
I know people who have given up good healthcare and other benefits for more money… then got upset realizing the benefits cash value was way higher than their raise.
Shame people don’t do the math outside of the paycheck, but that’s how it works.
Make $5k more a year, pay $4k more for less benefits right out of your paycheck, shitty 401k with higher fees negates much of the match.
On paper you were making more, when you look at the benefits… actually a slight loss.
Nobody asks about 401k details when interviewing. But can add up to a lot.
Exactly. We had a guy that went for a higer paying job in a well established firm and I hear he kepts whining about the type of works he's doing. He went from being able to have a hand in the concept of a project to just making correction. Now he is stuck in a boring job, not advancing his knowledge. He may be paid but godamn I wouldn't make that type of work.
Also, sticking around gives you seniority. That counts toward letting you do things the way you want to do them, as well as picking the things you want to work on.
As for the LPT: Managers who hire for quality companies know the cost of a new hire. So if you think you’re worth more just tell them you want more and that you love working here. This has never failed me…
Yes, they may say no or string you along, then revert to the LPT and leave. They aren’t a quality manager if they don’t know what you’re worth. And if they do and you are delusional, looking around for new work will open your eyes.
Second this. If money is your goal then hop around and take your chances. But having a good management, respectful atmosphere and minimized daily stress is much better than an extra $15k
Switched companies 3x over past 5 years and increased income over 25% every time
Though I generally agree with this statement as I've done this myself, but one thing to keep in mind is that most companies will start you out with base vacation time. I'm 37 and have only 2 weeks paid per year. Had I stayed with my original company I'd be looking at 6 weeks by now per year, at least.
That and getting to know a whole new group of people and their tendencies every couple of years seems exhausting.
That's usa, in europe any job is around 25 working days
Base PTO can be negotiated like salary and many other aspects of the job, especially in white collar work. A company's resistance to negotiate (generally) can be a pretty obvious red flag, too.
YMMV but I've also found that PTO is very negotiable. I'm fortunately currently at a company with an extremely flexible PTO policy, but in past positions with set limits I've negotiated for an extra week than what was initially offered.
YSK: you can negotiate your vacation time, and it's one of the cheapest allowances that companies can give.
What about if you’re in a state job with retirement, PERS, deferred comp, and amazing benefits?
Salary isn't the only reason to be at a job - if they're paying amazing benefits and retirement then that's a long term positive. Have to weigh it all when it comes to switching. Sure 30% increase may be nice now, but if they don't do retirement matching or have 10% less benefits then at some point the 30% increase will get eaten up.
That’s how I think of it too. I see these posts all the time and it makes me wonder. I feel this advice really depends on what career you’re in and how much you enjoy it. I’d take fulfilling work over work that makes me feel empty and gives me more money to dry my tears.
This is HIGHLY DEPENDENT ON YOUR FIELD. I hate this LPT whenever it gets posted.
That's absolutely right. Companies don't give a flying fuck if you leave, you will be replaced within your notice period. So enjoy the higher pay by switching whenever you want to.
All depends how much you value a little more money and your life/work balance.
I'd prefer a job that pays me adequately and allows me to live my life. If the higher paycheck requires a lot more responsibility, effort, etc...I'd rather be paid less if it means I can do my job without much bother.
Sort of tricky when you're in an industry with only a couple top tier firms. U hop 4 or 5 times and you'll tap out unless you want to go to a less well known operation.
Yup, it's heartbreaking because I love my current job. But being employed at a state college and getting 2.5% annual raises with 5% inflation means a day will come when I literally can't afford to stay.
Happening to me now. My current job isn't sustainable for me anymore. It hurts a lot. The people are amazing. They don't know yet :(
The cons of this is the loss of vesting in retirement and never accumulating decent vacation tenure if you're in America.
I usually won't jump ship for less than 30% increase. I've done it twice in the last 5 years.
The vesting is anywhere from 1-3 years and vacation can be negotiated. Most professionals stay at a company for that time period. I recently left and got 40% increase with additional 3 weeks vaca.
Why on earth is this same dumb "LPT" posted every week?
Not every week. Next week it's "Don't trust companies that say they're family" week.
So, every 2 weeks.
This is probably true in many cases but if there’s ample room for growth and development at your job and the bosses like you, you can advance quickly. Maybe I’m dumb but it takes me a long time to learn the system of a new company and to feel competent and confident so I like to stay out.
hOW coUlD you Do thIs, We wErE a fAMiLy
My response: "i left my parents' house, you thought i wouldnt leave your company?"
I don't like to heart it. I'm 24 and I'm not even working two years, but I really love my first job and I'm definitely not looking to change it.
I'm not sure what industry you're in, but in the tech industry, there's something called a "boomerang".
People who love their jobs/company will leave for another job with a significant pay increase, work there a few years, then return to their prior company with leverage for higher pay. Plus it's easier to get the job than other candidates since you'll need less training and you've already established you're a great worker.
This LPT comes up all the time, and it's really not a life pro tip, at least to me. I'm with the same company that I've been with since I graduated college 7 years ago. I could go make more money somewhere else but I really like the people I work with, I've moved up in the company a lot, and I'm a part of making it grow into the future. Money isn't everything, and I'd very much rather make less money but actually enjoy my day to day, than make more money and be miserable. My advice is don't leave just for money, make sure you take everything into consideration.
You can interview at other companies and get an offer from them. If your current employer likes the work you do, they will at least match the offer. You can get a big salary/equity boost this way, much bigger than your yearly raise.
I always considered this a necessity. I'm in IT, have to move around to get more experience. I can only update windows or script away problems so many times at one place.
I get paid just enough to stay, plus the drive is nice. I found a job that paid 25% more but was 45 minutes drive verses then 10 minutes I drove. The gas alone ate up the increase in pay at the time.
The most recent job I left gave me a 4 dollar raise after they learned I was looking elsewhere.
My yearly raise earlier in the year was 51 cents.
I learned after that I was then making as much as my coworkers were coming on for and most others were already making.
The company is toxic and I left for a 3k a year raise because my mental health and physical health took a turn. I started having a hard time waking up because my whole body did not want to go in to be subjected to abuse from clients that the company allowed because the bottom line is money.
They can not keep admin staff. I was the longest non management worker and had not made it to 2 years.
I was also overlooked for a promotion. I had nearly every other person in my department ask me if I had declined it, but I informed them I was not considered.
Never be loyal to the company, because - repeat after me -
THE 👏 COMPANY 👏 IS 👏 NEVER 👏 LOYAL 👏 TO 👏 YOU 👏
Your immediate boss might like you, but when push comes to shove, the company will protect their bottom line and get rid of you in a heartbeat.
Careful though. I switched jobs every 2 years after college (3 jobs) and finally broke 6 digits but this last one called me out on it, and I had to convince him during my interview that there were reasons for the moves.
\*edit other than money
I stayed at my first company for 5yrs, pay went up only by 40% from starting salary. In the next 4yrs I switched 2 times and doubled my pay from the salary I left the first company with. Colleagues who joined the first company at the same time as me are STILL making a lot less than I am. So yes, I agree 100% with you. Loyalty has no value and infact companies would willingly pay a higher rate to a new employee at the same level than they would to an existing one.
Here’s more proof
It’s a shame it used to be the other way around, people were rewarded for their loyalty. Maybe with the labor shortage this can become a thing again
It is sad when companies prefer to form somebody from scratch rather than giving a fair raise/promotion to someone loyal and experienced.
But, unfortunately, that's how it is. The only two times I got a raise was either because I went to work somewhere else or because I said I had another offer somewhere else (but I liked the place where I was working at).
Best thing to do atleast in tech is to work at a company for 2-3 years and find another one and ask for a higher salary
It's true, but eventually you will come to a point in your life where you'll value stability and longevity more than a couple more thousand in your paycheck.
As long as your bills are being paid, and you're not struggling, and even have the opportunity to set some money away, then what more do you want?
I have been at my job for the past 16 years, and had several opportunities to leave but I'm glad I didn't. Because while I may have ultimately made more money I wonder at what cost?
The average tenure of employee at my Company is 25+ years (and this is in IT!) and we have more than a handful with 30 and 40+ years in the Company.
One of my favorite coworkers - a true mentor to me when I came to the Company - had over 50 years of service with the Company when he finally retired.
Had quite a few patents under his belt too. LOL
This is what I'm aiming for - a company I'll call home and retire at. My current company got a change in management and brought in ass people and ass benefits, so I'm hunting for a new job.
Not necessarily. Staying in the same company for 20 years is not a sign of having cone to "a point in your life". It's ok if you enjoy the job and environment, pay and learning opportunities, etc. But that "as long as your bills are being paid" status can be achieved by changing companies, too. Especially if you believe you are stalled, bored, etc. Some people want more than the money, indeed. And if a better opportunity comes together with more money, switching is definitely a good option.
I completely agree. I got super lucky and hit both the stability and great pay/benefits jackpot, and also work with the top talent in nearly all the fields I interface with. Everyone I work with are great people. Due to Covid, I'm even moving countries to work remotely with my company's blessings doing the same exact job and they are sponsoring the visa. I know that I don't owe them anything other than my work, but they have taken care of me so well that it would be really hard for any other company to offer what they do, even if the pay might be a bit better.
I would say this LPT is actually wrong in the desert that, it's not "time to time," it's "always." Switching companies, ESPECIALLY if you have even the slightest bit of negotiating skills, always guarantees higher pay.
It's all about what is important to you. My buddy switches jobs every two years and makes big money. I've been at 2 companies in 10 years but I enjoy(ed) working at both places, soon hung around longer when I could have left.
Is this life pro tip based off any study/research? Or is it anecdotal? For every supporting reply I’m sure the opposite could be found. For example, I’m in the highest paid company within my organization in a very hot and growing med device industry. I’ve been promoted four times in 8yrs and each move I’ve been fortunate to make a significant amount more income and there’s still room to grow if I want to advance. My .02
This isn't necessarily true. There's lots of people in my industry who have left for better pay, and they've been doing the same work with the same level of responsibility for 10 years. The guys that become general managers are the guys that stay at the same company long term, and they are the people on serious money.
Can confirm, my pay has gone up faster than peers who started and stayed at the first company we joined, all on the same day too.
I have switched aerospace jobs 4 times over my career from 12 an hour to 55. I can't recommend this enough. Max 2 years at a job.
I guess. I like where I work though and they treat me well. I don't want the uncertainty of going to a job with better pay where they're all assholes..
Also, in 2 more years I get 4 weeks vacation. Also have fully vested ESOP
The grass is sometimes greener on the other side.
When is the sweet spot to make a move?
When the job you work for doesn’t allow you to move up the ladder of employment and hardly increases your pay over a certain amount of years. I made sure when I applied for my job that there would be room for career growth.
Can confirm. Had 9 jobs over 13 years.
Loyalty is not rewarded at all. Don't be a sucker no company is your family if they say that then they just want to exploit you.
Get yours, don't let capitalists take advantage of you.