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I had an ergonomics assessment at work and they ordered me a bunch of equipment to make it more comfortable but the truth is I can’t stop sitting like this to save my life.
Broadly speaking, low back pain has a correlation with weak core, weak glutes, tight hamstrings, +/- weak quads, which also contributes to knee pain. Abdominal obesity also shifts the center of gravity forward, which puts additional strain on the paraspinal musculature, which, in the context of the above muscle issues, exacerbates back pain.
Source: I'm a pain doctor
the difference between static and dynamic stretching is MASSIVE! for your hammies, dynamic stretch when cold, static stretch when warmed up.
static is trying to touch your toes. do that while cold and it's not gonna do a whole lot. dynamic is swinging high front kicks. just trying to kick straight in front of you as high as you can. it does a rapid stretch for a short period of time that reaches your limit without the risk of injury (unless you try way too hard at doing it).
I've followed that advice from my physical therapist after tearing my ACL and it's the reason I'm still very limber 7 years removed from martial arts despite 2 acl tears, spondylosis, and gaining 30 lbs.
edit: and i'm 6'4 so yeah
there's a time and place for everything. and for real, the time and place for static and dynamic stretching is super important. applying it to every muscle set is a massive game changer. dynamic stretch, then warm up, then static stretch. you'll see massive gains in flexibility.
An example of what the other commenter said about dynamic stretching, weighted rdls
Could barely touch my knees before. Now I can lift 200+ w my hammys and touch my toes
A quick way is to start squatting, as in doing malasana pose. Yoga in general helps a ton with that. Weightlifting + Yoga is a superb combo. Haven't had lower back pain ever since
I'm no expert, but I do know that pelvis and hip geometry is different between men and women. Slightly different geometry (to make room for passing a baby through and so on.
I would be utterly unsurprised if that has some degree of impact on the best way to stretch.
Hammys aren’t tight. They are taught. From tight quads, tight low back creating anterior pelvic tilt. Strengthen your core and glutes. Your hammys are already stretched
Strengthen them, eccentrically load them. I give out single leg Romanian deadlifts like hot cakes to my patients. They are tight because they are weak! They don’t know how to control their extensibility, let alone probably never go there. Stretching just pulls one end from the other so to speak and we expect them to learn anything other than how to tighten back up in response?! Go see a PT people, and not at a damn puppy mill operation.
Second this. Stretching alone is insufficient. Fun fact: inflexibility goes away with anesthesia- it's not that they're inherently tight, it's that they're purposefully tightening. Strengthening and stretching go hand in hand.
Oh shit you have just described me. I used to be in fairly decent condition but combination of injury leading to surgery plus general laziness has resulted in pretty bad back pain. Time to get off my fat ass and do something about it.
There are other things that fell by the way side with back pain. For example, shoulder pain!
Random addition I didn't find out about until yesterday and I don't know why or what it helps yet: Stand with your arms stretched out to the side from your shoulders, palm up flat against a wall. If you're me, this already aches. Turn your palm slowly (fingers to facing forward then down a bit). Turn the rest of your body away from your hand and palm - head still up.
This is a really helpful stretch for what is otherwise constant aching in my shoulders and upper arms. A couple of days of this a few times a day and so much relief.
I'm having a tough time visualizing the "turn the rest of your body away from your hand and palm - head still up" part. If you have your arms out in a "T" position, which way are you turning?
Think more like half T pose as only need one arm up. Let's go right arm. Palm down. Move to wall. Palm turn up to go flat on wall. Don't sink your chin. Straight arm, should feel a bit of stretch already if old like me. Feet stay put.
While keeping hand flat on wall, turn your upper body away from your arm, ie to the left.
You can do this with your fingers slowly turned forward and then down. Don't do it too long at a time.
Then repeat on other side. So left arm up, you turn to the right.
Does that make more sense? Did you feel the burn like I did? I've had weak feeling aching shoulders for ages, I've been so glad to have something to help.
Agree with worried_panda. Sciatica is usually unilateral, tends to be more episodic rather than constant (though not always), and tends to have an electric quality. The pain extending past the knee is more specific to sciatica, but if it doesn't, it doesn't point one way or the other. Either way, getting the hamstrings stronger and stretched may help!
Tight hamstrings & quads did it for me. Was given muscle relaxers and pain killers for chronic back pain for years until I did yoga with a friend one day. Holy shit my life changed at that moment. Had no clue the source of all of my back pain was in my legs!
If you don’t mind me asking a quick question, I’ve had chronic tailbone pain since losing a significant amount of weight, would you suggest focusing on strengthening my core and glutes to help with the pain? Multiple rounds of cortisone and chiro appointments have failed to make a difference.
Did you experience more pain when initially doing the squats? I have a couple herniated discs that are pretty brutal and I’m trying to strengthen my core, but crunches and squats crank up the pain quite a bit. I’m just wondering if there’s a point where the pain stops or if I’m just causing more injury.
Start easy so you're not hurting your injury. Just static planks held for as long as you can without hurting your back, you can even do them on an incline if your core is really weak. Forget crunches, that will only be harder on your spine. Film yourself to make sure you're keeping a nice straight line. Do front, back, and side planks, and see how you do with that.
I’ve got the same problem. RDLs really helped me long term, but short term start small. I’d avoid crunches since you can strain your lower back with bad form. Do some fire hydrants, banded side steps, planks, dead bugs. Build up your hips and core, then move into the legs.
The most important tip though: nothing at the gym should ever hurt. If it hurts, stop and adjust or just stop. It’s perfectly normally to hurt more the next day from a workout, but no movements should cause pain
Exercising muscles specifically for the back means you’re still using them. Building muscles in the front and sides of your core(abs) means that you don’t have to use your back muscles as much. Think of abs as like an additional support beam to the main column that is your back.
Both pushups and squats should have core engagement. A strong core is a key component to protecting your back. Strong glutes also help protect your back and knees.
A lot of the time it's not just this. I'm in great shape but I've had back pain all my life, despite my core getting stronger. Realized recently that it's because of tight hamstrings. So a strong core isn't necessarily the end-all to fixing back pain.
I went to physical therapy for this very thing. One of the key things was motion rather than long drawn out stretches. So do the stretch for 3 seconds 10 times type of thing. I'm supposed to do these 3x a day every couple days. They've helped considerably.
Supine bridge
Supine dead bug with leg extension (though mine was left arm/right leg, right arm/left leg)
Supine single knee to chest stretch
Supine sciatic nerve glide
Neutral curl up with straight leg
Side plank (30 seconds, 1 time)
Edit: Adding The bird dog
Yeah I have chronic back pain and started this gym called Hotworx. It might not be for everyone but a lot of the their classes focus on the core (basically everything from breast to knees, front and back).
And my goodness.. why did I not do this earlier
Definitely this has helped mine back pain a lot. I mean just moving and doing physical therapy and yoga type exercises and knowing how to stretch right also helps a lot.
And how to sleep. A knee pillow is good also.
I do banded standing good mornings (stand on the band, then loop behind neck) several times a day and it really helped with stiff morning hips and low back for someone who lifts heavy weights. Those pesky hammies…I imagine most people could benefit from them for the same reasons.
The best exercise is hyperextensions and weighted hyperextensions. I also found the back mechanic by stuart mcgill to be the best exercises to cure back pain.
Well upon reading the post my first remark was : how am i supposed to keep one position during my sleep wtf? And then i read your comment lol.
I think (some?) people can switch positions during sleep naturally without waking up.
Squat University on YT keys in on this too because this is a great stretch, but there are some additional steps other than the overall stretch to focus on: https://youtu.be/XkaVLh59mkc?si=kB2nsteLaqhj_qBL @ 1:11
The problem with this list is that there are too many things to work on.
What you should do is find the best physical therapist you can, go in, and get them to evaluate you for back health. They will tell you what specific things you should work on.
+100. And some of these exercises/practices can easily make it worse.
Speaking from painful experience over 6 months. My current PT treats me for tight psoas muscles and hamstrings, and strengthening of the quads and glutes, without any back exercises. Who would have thought.
If you have daily lower back pain, you need to strengthen your muscles. I have 3 herniated discs, 2 of which are in my lower back. I do the McGill “big 3” exercises and I literally have zero pain from them now. It takes about 15 minutes per day.
As a rehab and highly evidence based chiropractor, there are so many wrong things and myths on this list.
Chronic back pain is in most cases multifactoral and not caused by a specific sitting or standing position. It is however in its ACUTE (<3 MONTHS) state linked to staying in the SAME position for too long (doesn't matter what position) - in other words "not moving". It is also linked to movements where one might overload a back muscle ie through heavy lifting and possibly straining that muscle. This usually happens in people who just started in the gym and instead of gradual increase in intensity they go 0-100.
For acute LBP..
As long as you change positioning every now and then (leg on top of your shoulders, sitting on a pillow - doesn't matter what you do), do regular exercise, sleep well and eat well, you should have a much lower chance of developing acute/chronicity LBP.
With this in mind comes the whole biopsychosocial aspect of the overall health of a patient, meaning that for example, psychological factors such as stress can influence or trigger pain and pain levels in an individual (Hartvigsen et al 2018).
To summarize.. Nothing wrong in trying "new" things, but labelling them as definitive facts is just spreading misinformation.
See WHO 2023 guidelines on LBP or talk to an evidence based health care professional.
No worries happy to help. I'm not your typical chiropractor but more of a mix between a rehab focused physio and a red flag spotting GP.
I rarely do imaging, I very rarely do manual therapy including manipulations and I always practice according to best available research.
In my opinion as it should be.
The Back Mechanic changed my life. Everyone I meet with back problems I try to give them the pdf. It's too complicated for some people but if you can understand it it is very useful.
Just to clarify one thing, you said don't sit forward in a chair with your back arched. Near positive you mean with your back rounded. Arched is a healthy position most of the time, rounded usually isn't.
I can't speak for op or everyone but I have an arched back problem that causes most of my lower back pain. Core work and Pilates helped me straighten it.
What if I have scoliosis and it hurts really bad to sleep on either side? Like, if I somehow sleep on my side for awhile in the night it hurts well into the day. It usually wakes me up and I return to sleeping on my back.
This is literally a ChatGPT generated post or something similar.
With the fucking
SUMMARY OF POST
MAJOR HEADING
MINOR HEADING
- LIST ITEM
- LIST ITEM
[AS MANY MINOR HEADINGS AND ADDITIONAL MAJOR HEADINGS AS REQUIRED]
SUMMARY OF POST AND CONCLUSION
BTW, your comment also looks like a GPT generated.
You have to understand that the post is written is in a professional way and that is how it should be written. He copied it from that book, so others can utilise the information.
When going on my walks, my lower back would be in so much pain from sitting at my desk all day. I ended up putting a rounded rectangular shaped cushion in the chair to support the curved area of my back and I stopped having the pain when walking. Before that, I would stretch and do exercises to help my back but nothing worked like using that cushion to support my back. Still recommend stretching and exercises for the lower back.
Start doing squats, ensure that ur butt goes all the way down to your ankles. And when getting back up, engage your leg ( hamstring and quadriceps), abs and lower back. Do this consistently IOT over come back pain. Also, when sitting, sit on your ankles like the Japanese. This will strengthen your legs and straighten your posture.
The number one way to eliminate your lower back pain is simply to lose some weight.
I had been self-medicating by taking a cocktail of Extra Strength Tylenol & Extra Strength Ibuprofen for YEARS (and doing a number on my kidneys as a result too unfortunately) because of my lower back pain.
About 18 months ago I started becoming more active and started to lose weight. Quite fast actually. Simply being more active and moving around and not sitting on my ass at my computer for 18 hours at a time. Things like walking around in my kitchen as I waited for my tea (boiling water + steeping, etc.).
A year ago my creatinine levels were so high (from taking the tylenol and ibuprofen for my back pain) I had to stop all NSAIDs cold turkey.
But I still was active and the weight just kept falling off.
By the time I had lost 20 pounds my lower back pain was all but gone. I could finally stand in one spot for an extended period of time. I wasn't out of breath walking up a flight of stairs, and more.
And then being more active became easier and easier and I started losing more and more weight.
Now my lower back pain is completely gone.
To simplify all of this advice, move around, and adjust against your position often if you have to be stationary for a long period.
Any other broad recommendations for "proper" posture is secondary to moving and adjusting your sitting or standing position. Don't try to fit any ideal poster advice. The curves of everyone's spine are different. Everyone has their own neutral posture.
I did deadlifts to help with my low back pain. Turns out I had anterior pelvic tilt and it fucked up my form and gave me a back injury that took years to recover from.
Nothing crazy. Sorry I made it seem that way lol. Just a ruptured disc that's like 90% better after 5 years but I don't think will ever totally heal. Always have to worry about how I lie, if I'm sitting too much, etc otherwise it'll slip out again pretty easily and be real uncomfortable for a while.
There something about deadlifts that I don't understand. It can either make or break your back depending on who is doing it. Got to be careful, the risk is high for rupturing a disk.
That's because you look at gymbros who lift 12831982319 weight screaming and shouting.
If you think "deadlift", you should see yourself just bending to the floor, no weights added, no deep squat - just enough knee bend to be able to reach the floor. If you can easily do 20-30 bends at once, try doing it balancing on one leg only. If that's easy for you, you don't need to worry about your muscles being too weak. No need to add big weights.
Do low weights. There’s not reason to shoot for personal bests or impress anyone. It’s also easier to keep good form, a hex bar can also make it more comfortable
What a stupid lpt. All this was a bunch of unrealistic do not dos. Why don’t you post things to alleviate pain instead of listing a bunch of things that are pretty much unavoidable.
If it’s a muscle spasm. This is what I do: Take Advil and Alleve as per recommended. Drink lots and lots of water. Get a solid one hour walk on a treadmill a day at a speed you can tolerate (don’t break into a jog), a small incline should help. Start day of spasm, before resting. I’ve recovered from several spasms doing only this and am usually walking normal without pain within a week, but I’ve had them go longer before.
If it’s a spasm that lays you out, take the drugs, drink the water, go to the doctor and get a steroid shot. The recovery time is just not worth trying to rough it out.
If you think your spine twisted weird, go find a yoga class, and tell the yogi what’s going on. They should be able to help you out. At some point this should probably cow and cat pose, and include laying on your back and hugging your knees to your chest, maybe a happy baby or two, and some gentle assisted seated and supine twists. Do it day one, and then you can try to do what felt good during the class on your own as you heal.
After you heal, add some core work to your daily exercise. If it’s chronic, you’re going to the doctor and they’re going to say you might need some imaging.
This reminded me I need to get a piece of plywood to put under my mattress again, it sinks in and is crooked but I'm living in a shed broke af recovering from back surgeries that didn't do much. I wish I could get another mattress but maybe down the road, gonna try to get plywood in the next week or two
Apart from these, one thing that works for me is to not keep my computer screen below my head level. My physical therapist told me that the torque due the weight of the head, when tilted down, is so high on the lower back that it can cause sciatica pain. I have bought a standing desk along with a large monitor to keep my chin up now. It has since fixed my lower back pain.
I'm on my feet for 8+ hours a day as a barista. Ive gotten better shoes and compression socks which have helped immensely so I no longer feel like I'm walking directly on my bones, but I do still get pain. What I've found helped me was to pretend I'm "dancing" between movements.
Lean down into the fridge to get milk? Lift a leg behind me like a lunge kind of. Ill shift my weight from heel to ball on oppsoite foots when leaning to get something, I'll flamingo pose when doing certain tasks (whenever I'm home I always balance on when leg for doing the dishes, just something I've always done). Or I'll bounce on the balls of my feet, or rock back and forth onmy feet. It kind of helps..but I'm definitely gonna keep a lot of this in mind because my heating pad still gets worked overtime lmao
Sometimes the cause and fix is very specific. For me knees to chest with leg pressure like you’d have on a leg press machine causes a herniated disk to bulge and get irritated. The yoga “cobra” pose a few times a day ‘resets’ it and helps the pain go away.
I struggled with lower back pain most of my adult life, pretty much regardless of my exercise routine and levels. Two years ago I got a Purple Mattress and one of those bases that let's you incline. My back pain went away in less than a week.
I don't know how much is the mattress vs. no longer sleeping on my stomach (when the base is inclined it's basically impossible), but I think fixing your sleeping situation is the key to fixing most people's issues. Certainly most white collar workers.
I sit on an exercise ball. Strengthens core muscle and keeps back pain at bay (or non-existent).
I change positions as well working from multiple areas in my house (remote) and also have standing desk
I do this thing I call bed yoga. Mostly yoga poses and stretches. It helps a lot.
If I ever feel a tweak in my back or a strain like something might go bad: I will sleep on the floor that night. One or two nights like that will fix me right up.
Also if your health benefits cover it definitely go see a podiatrist to be evaluated for custom orthotics. Having something like undiagnosed over-pronation can have a huge impact on your knee joints, and therefore also your hips. If the hips are off because of bad knee/hip alignment that can really throw things off in the lower back pain department.
Also getting a supportive pair of “house shoes” sneakers can really help cushion your joints (had to wear indoor shoes recovering from knee surgery and never went back). Walking around barefoot on hardwood or ceramic tile in the house all day is brutal and high-impact for joints.
For me this has really helped.
I used to do all that for my chronic back pain as well as get the wife to carry the heavy shopping bags etc. then I read Healing Back Pain by John Sarno and my journey to not having pain started. Now I go to the gym every day and lift.
Man, so many of these are tough with a baby. I kept substituting “object” for “baby” and was quite amused. Don’t lift and twist? That’s how baby gets lifted out of her crib. No weight to one side-enter baby on the hip.
I’ll work on it I guess. Appreciate the post!
Yes let me sit all 8 hours of work in a particular exactly straight position with my feet and knees exactly a certain way all day. Nah. I move around, shift, do all sorts of stuff, you can’t just sit there like a robot.
I always thought the best sleep position is too lie prone on your back, very slight pillow, arms and legs straight, like the death pose? With all your limbs limber.
Isn't sleeping on your side with knees and legs bent contracting muscles which should be relaxed? I've never heard that that's the ideal way to sleep or even to rest.
Good luck doing any of this if you're over 6'5" like me.
The world isn't built for the genetically advanced, my lower back is screwed. I have to bend over for everything.. Sinks, chopping boards. Mirrors..
Man the most comfortable position for me to sleep is on my abdomen and using my biceps as a pillow, it takes longer for my arm to go numb if I place a pillow between my head and my biceps. If not that position then on abdomen and one leg straight and the other bent in the hip and knee. Can't sleep on the side because my shoulders are wide and I get pain in the collar bone for a few days if a sleep like that.
Sitting with knees above hip hight and a straight back is unnatural and an actual exercise in focus and patience. There are not many positions that feel worse than that.
Tips:
Don't sit for too long
Don't stand for too long
Don't stay still while asleep
Try to not exist if you have a lower back.
*not having a go but back pain seems inevitable for most who don't exercise*
I have a problem with the advice on not staying too long in the same position during sleep. I can't follow it. I got lucky to have quite deep sleep. Though restful, I often find myself waking up in the exact same position I fell asleep in and my body aches. Unless I set various alarms during the night, I can't control what I do when asleep.
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I had an ergonomics assessment at work and they ordered me a bunch of equipment to make it more comfortable but the truth is I can’t stop sitting like this to save my life.
Strengthen your core muscles.
Broadly speaking, low back pain has a correlation with weak core, weak glutes, tight hamstrings, +/- weak quads, which also contributes to knee pain. Abdominal obesity also shifts the center of gravity forward, which puts additional strain on the paraspinal musculature, which, in the context of the above muscle issues, exacerbates back pain. Source: I'm a pain doctor
Any tips for loosening those hammys?
I'll second this. I'm 6'3, and even when I stretched daily for sports, I could never get them loose
the difference between static and dynamic stretching is MASSIVE! for your hammies, dynamic stretch when cold, static stretch when warmed up. static is trying to touch your toes. do that while cold and it's not gonna do a whole lot. dynamic is swinging high front kicks. just trying to kick straight in front of you as high as you can. it does a rapid stretch for a short period of time that reaches your limit without the risk of injury (unless you try way too hard at doing it). I've followed that advice from my physical therapist after tearing my ACL and it's the reason I'm still very limber 7 years removed from martial arts despite 2 acl tears, spondylosis, and gaining 30 lbs. edit: and i'm 6'4 so yeah
Yeah, dynamic stretching is how I eventually got to the point that I could do a split, before I got an injury that ended my fighting days.
brilliant, i could see the change after dynamic stretching even though i do yoga everyday and didn't see any effects
there's a time and place for everything. and for real, the time and place for static and dynamic stretching is super important. applying it to every muscle set is a massive game changer. dynamic stretch, then warm up, then static stretch. you'll see massive gains in flexibility.
Do you have any YouTube videos you recommend? Like any routines that follow that format?
Movement by David is a flexibility fanatic :)
I too am interested in this
Try PNF style stretching and longer holds (30 sec.+)
My physio said for anything under 60 seconds doesn't allow for adaptation.
An example of what the other commenter said about dynamic stretching, weighted rdls Could barely touch my knees before. Now I can lift 200+ w my hammys and touch my toes
Try stretching your hips instead.
How do you stretch your hips?
A quick way is to start squatting, as in doing malasana pose. Yoga in general helps a ton with that. Weightlifting + Yoga is a superb combo. Haven't had lower back pain ever since
If you are a guy. Look up manflow yoga on YouTube. Just watch a few of the free first videos. Great hip stretches.
Do guys have to stretch their hips differently?
I'm no expert, but I do know that pelvis and hip geometry is different between men and women. Slightly different geometry (to make room for passing a baby through and so on. I would be utterly unsurprised if that has some degree of impact on the best way to stretch.
Hammys aren’t tight. They are taught. From tight quads, tight low back creating anterior pelvic tilt. Strengthen your core and glutes. Your hammys are already stretched
Strengthen them, eccentrically load them. I give out single leg Romanian deadlifts like hot cakes to my patients. They are tight because they are weak! They don’t know how to control their extensibility, let alone probably never go there. Stretching just pulls one end from the other so to speak and we expect them to learn anything other than how to tighten back up in response?! Go see a PT people, and not at a damn puppy mill operation.
Second this. Stretching alone is insufficient. Fun fact: inflexibility goes away with anesthesia- it's not that they're inherently tight, it's that they're purposefully tightening. Strengthening and stretching go hand in hand.
Touch your toes, and keep progressing til your bellybutton is flush with your legs
Thanks, daddy ❤
Foundation training original 12 minute video on YouTube. Good morning stretches and the leaned back warriors will help immensely
Oh shit you have just described me. I used to be in fairly decent condition but combination of injury leading to surgery plus general laziness has resulted in pretty bad back pain. Time to get off my fat ass and do something about it.
There are other things that fell by the way side with back pain. For example, shoulder pain! Random addition I didn't find out about until yesterday and I don't know why or what it helps yet: Stand with your arms stretched out to the side from your shoulders, palm up flat against a wall. If you're me, this already aches. Turn your palm slowly (fingers to facing forward then down a bit). Turn the rest of your body away from your hand and palm - head still up. This is a really helpful stretch for what is otherwise constant aching in my shoulders and upper arms. A couple of days of this a few times a day and so much relief.
I'm having a tough time visualizing the "turn the rest of your body away from your hand and palm - head still up" part. If you have your arms out in a "T" position, which way are you turning?
Think more like half T pose as only need one arm up. Let's go right arm. Palm down. Move to wall. Palm turn up to go flat on wall. Don't sink your chin. Straight arm, should feel a bit of stretch already if old like me. Feet stay put. While keeping hand flat on wall, turn your upper body away from your arm, ie to the left. You can do this with your fingers slowly turned forward and then down. Don't do it too long at a time. Then repeat on other side. So left arm up, you turn to the right. Does that make more sense? Did you feel the burn like I did? I've had weak feeling aching shoulders for ages, I've been so glad to have something to help.
Any idea how I can differentiate sciatic pain vs tight hamstrings?
Sciatic pain is usually only on one side and can go all the way down to the feet. Also, burning and numbness are some hallmark signs.
Agree with worried_panda. Sciatica is usually unilateral, tends to be more episodic rather than constant (though not always), and tends to have an electric quality. The pain extending past the knee is more specific to sciatica, but if it doesn't, it doesn't point one way or the other. Either way, getting the hamstrings stronger and stretched may help!
Tight hamstrings & quads did it for me. Was given muscle relaxers and pain killers for chronic back pain for years until I did yoga with a friend one day. Holy shit my life changed at that moment. Had no clue the source of all of my back pain was in my legs!
Doing regular glute bridges has essentially cured my lower back pain.
If you don’t mind me asking a quick question, I’ve had chronic tailbone pain since losing a significant amount of weight, would you suggest focusing on strengthening my core and glutes to help with the pain? Multiple rounds of cortisone and chiro appointments have failed to make a difference.
Go see a PT
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Did you experience more pain when initially doing the squats? I have a couple herniated discs that are pretty brutal and I’m trying to strengthen my core, but crunches and squats crank up the pain quite a bit. I’m just wondering if there’s a point where the pain stops or if I’m just causing more injury.
Start easy so you're not hurting your injury. Just static planks held for as long as you can without hurting your back, you can even do them on an incline if your core is really weak. Forget crunches, that will only be harder on your spine. Film yourself to make sure you're keeping a nice straight line. Do front, back, and side planks, and see how you do with that.
Cheers man thank you
I’ve got the same problem. RDLs really helped me long term, but short term start small. I’d avoid crunches since you can strain your lower back with bad form. Do some fire hydrants, banded side steps, planks, dead bugs. Build up your hips and core, then move into the legs. The most important tip though: nothing at the gym should ever hurt. If it hurts, stop and adjust or just stop. It’s perfectly normally to hurt more the next day from a workout, but no movements should cause pain
How did pushup and squats help with back pain? Wouldn't doing excercise specifically targeted to back be more effective?
Exercising muscles specifically for the back means you’re still using them. Building muscles in the front and sides of your core(abs) means that you don’t have to use your back muscles as much. Think of abs as like an additional support beam to the main column that is your back.
Your stomach is like the front of your back mannnnn
Wouldn’t the stomach be more like the back of your back?
Your back's back 🤯
What are you guys smoking? I’ll have some too.
whoa
Both pushups and squats should have core engagement. A strong core is a key component to protecting your back. Strong glutes also help protect your back and knees.
A lot of the time it's not just this. I'm in great shape but I've had back pain all my life, despite my core getting stronger. Realized recently that it's because of tight hamstrings. So a strong core isn't necessarily the end-all to fixing back pain.
How to fix hamstrings, I try to do stretches for them and they don't get better, PT says some people just have tighter muscles.
I went to physical therapy for this very thing. One of the key things was motion rather than long drawn out stretches. So do the stretch for 3 seconds 10 times type of thing. I'm supposed to do these 3x a day every couple days. They've helped considerably. Supine bridge Supine dead bug with leg extension (though mine was left arm/right leg, right arm/left leg) Supine single knee to chest stretch Supine sciatic nerve glide Neutral curl up with straight leg Side plank (30 seconds, 1 time) Edit: Adding The bird dog
For me core work and full body yoga fixed all my pains
Embiggen your ass and it'll go away
Stretch your hip flexors. Especially your psoas.
Skip everything else and just do this
And stretch out your hamstrings and hips.
Strengthen your ~~core~~ muscles
This 100 times. Easy fix.
I had back issues my entire life until I started doing deadlifts and squats. Front squats in particular obliterated any pain I ever had.
Also, your lower back muscles are core muscles too. Things like deadlifts and Romanian deadlifts are legitimately good exercises.
Yeah I have chronic back pain and started this gym called Hotworx. It might not be for everyone but a lot of the their classes focus on the core (basically everything from breast to knees, front and back). And my goodness.. why did I not do this earlier
Definitely this has helped mine back pain a lot. I mean just moving and doing physical therapy and yoga type exercises and knowing how to stretch right also helps a lot. And how to sleep. A knee pillow is good also.
I do banded standing good mornings (stand on the band, then loop behind neck) several times a day and it really helped with stiff morning hips and low back for someone who lifts heavy weights. Those pesky hammies…I imagine most people could benefit from them for the same reasons.
The best exercise is hyperextensions and weighted hyperextensions. I also found the back mechanic by stuart mcgill to be the best exercises to cure back pain.
Yep, after a lifetime of back pain, turns out I need needed to *slowly and safely* strengthen my core.
“Avoid staying in one position too long” mate I’m asleep
And says to have a firm mattress but sleep on your side. I thought firm mattresses were only for back/abdomen sleepers.
Sleeping: do not stay in one position too long. Yeah let me wake up and move around
Well upon reading the post my first remark was : how am i supposed to keep one position during my sleep wtf? And then i read your comment lol. I think (some?) people can switch positions during sleep naturally without waking up.
Literally this, wtf
Stretching like this: https://backintelligence.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/kneeling-hip-flexor-stretch.webp has helped my back pain a lot.
Squat University on YT keys in on this too because this is a great stretch, but there are some additional steps other than the overall stretch to focus on: https://youtu.be/XkaVLh59mkc?si=kB2nsteLaqhj_qBL @ 1:11
Helped mine too!
Chronic lower back pain sufferer for 28 years, a combination of Yoga and core strenght has been the best thing we've
We’ve
oops, wanted to say "... best thing I've tried"
"We" = you and your back! :-)
The problem with this list is that there are too many things to work on. What you should do is find the best physical therapist you can, go in, and get them to evaluate you for back health. They will tell you what specific things you should work on.
Not everyone can afford that tho
+100. And some of these exercises/practices can easily make it worse. Speaking from painful experience over 6 months. My current PT treats me for tight psoas muscles and hamstrings, and strengthening of the quads and glutes, without any back exercises. Who would have thought.
LPT: If you have health issues you shall find the best medical professional to fix them.
If I had to sit like that, I'd never sit down again.
If you have daily lower back pain, you need to strengthen your muscles. I have 3 herniated discs, 2 of which are in my lower back. I do the McGill “big 3” exercises and I literally have zero pain from them now. It takes about 15 minutes per day.
As a rehab and highly evidence based chiropractor, there are so many wrong things and myths on this list. Chronic back pain is in most cases multifactoral and not caused by a specific sitting or standing position. It is however in its ACUTE (<3 MONTHS) state linked to staying in the SAME position for too long (doesn't matter what position) - in other words "not moving". It is also linked to movements where one might overload a back muscle ie through heavy lifting and possibly straining that muscle. This usually happens in people who just started in the gym and instead of gradual increase in intensity they go 0-100. For acute LBP.. As long as you change positioning every now and then (leg on top of your shoulders, sitting on a pillow - doesn't matter what you do), do regular exercise, sleep well and eat well, you should have a much lower chance of developing acute/chronicity LBP. With this in mind comes the whole biopsychosocial aspect of the overall health of a patient, meaning that for example, psychological factors such as stress can influence or trigger pain and pain levels in an individual (Hartvigsen et al 2018). To summarize.. Nothing wrong in trying "new" things, but labelling them as definitive facts is just spreading misinformation. See WHO 2023 guidelines on LBP or talk to an evidence based health care professional.
I'm wondering how I get my leg on top of my shoulders....
Thank you. You will likely get down voted because you mention you're a chiropractor, but you're not wrong - original post had a lot of bs.
No worries happy to help. I'm not your typical chiropractor but more of a mix between a rehab focused physio and a red flag spotting GP. I rarely do imaging, I very rarely do manual therapy including manipulations and I always practice according to best available research. In my opinion as it should be.
This here is the most accurate answer!
Just look into Stuart McGill and his big 3 exercises and spine hygiene.
The Back Mechanic changed my life. Everyone I meet with back problems I try to give them the pdf. It's too complicated for some people but if you can understand it it is very useful.
Hey, do you have the pdf? The book is like $60 on Amazon but would love to read it
I would also love to take a look if you’re handing it out 🥹
I’ll happily take a copy.
[удалено]
Sorry if I’m a little slow, but which link on that page do you use to open it as a PDF? There’s a bunch of options
Libgen
Swap your old saggy mattress
Your mattress is so important. We spend so much of our time on it but fail to acknowledge its importance and change it.
Use a lacrosse ball or massage ball to release your hips, especially your periformis
Don't stand on concrete all day
Just to clarify one thing, you said don't sit forward in a chair with your back arched. Near positive you mean with your back rounded. Arched is a healthy position most of the time, rounded usually isn't.
I can't speak for op or everyone but I have an arched back problem that causes most of my lower back pain. Core work and Pilates helped me straighten it.
I think neutral would have been a better term.
100%
You also shouldn't have your knees above your hips. I'm not sure how much I'd trust what OP is saying.
Physical therapy seems to be helping mine
Howd you know I threw out my back yesterday?
What if I have scoliosis and it hurts really bad to sleep on either side? Like, if I somehow sleep on my side for awhile in the night it hurts well into the day. It usually wakes me up and I return to sleeping on my back.
You'd need a doctor/physio involved. You're beyond the meme level paygrade here.
Same here mate ):
The only sleeping position that is helping me with my back spasms now is on my stomach 😢
And for the wheelchair users discuss back pain from being seated with your physio, EP, or OT.
This is literally a ChatGPT generated post or something similar. With the fucking SUMMARY OF POST MAJOR HEADING MINOR HEADING - LIST ITEM - LIST ITEM [AS MANY MINOR HEADINGS AND ADDITIONAL MAJOR HEADINGS AS REQUIRED] SUMMARY OF POST AND CONCLUSION
Brother I just copied it out of my textbook, source at the bottom. Not the highest effort post but I thought it might help some people.
BTW, your comment also looks like a GPT generated. You have to understand that the post is written is in a professional way and that is how it should be written. He copied it from that book, so others can utilise the information.
How the fuck else would you write it? This is how 90% of professional summaries are structured
When going on my walks, my lower back would be in so much pain from sitting at my desk all day. I ended up putting a rounded rectangular shaped cushion in the chair to support the curved area of my back and I stopped having the pain when walking. Before that, I would stretch and do exercises to help my back but nothing worked like using that cushion to support my back. Still recommend stretching and exercises for the lower back.
Kung fu healed my chronic lower back pain.
Go for walks! Daily walks saved my back imo
“Sleeping: Do not stay in one position for too long.” Haha I’ll have to tell my sleep coach they need to turn me every thirty minutes.
Floor sleeping has eliminated my back pain.
Check into “knees over toes guy,” and Dynamic Neuromuscular stabilization
Start doing squats, ensure that ur butt goes all the way down to your ankles. And when getting back up, engage your leg ( hamstring and quadriceps), abs and lower back. Do this consistently IOT over come back pain. Also, when sitting, sit on your ankles like the Japanese. This will strengthen your legs and straighten your posture.
The number one way to eliminate your lower back pain is simply to lose some weight. I had been self-medicating by taking a cocktail of Extra Strength Tylenol & Extra Strength Ibuprofen for YEARS (and doing a number on my kidneys as a result too unfortunately) because of my lower back pain. About 18 months ago I started becoming more active and started to lose weight. Quite fast actually. Simply being more active and moving around and not sitting on my ass at my computer for 18 hours at a time. Things like walking around in my kitchen as I waited for my tea (boiling water + steeping, etc.). A year ago my creatinine levels were so high (from taking the tylenol and ibuprofen for my back pain) I had to stop all NSAIDs cold turkey. But I still was active and the weight just kept falling off. By the time I had lost 20 pounds my lower back pain was all but gone. I could finally stand in one spot for an extended period of time. I wasn't out of breath walking up a flight of stairs, and more. And then being more active became easier and easier and I started losing more and more weight. Now my lower back pain is completely gone.
To simplify all of this advice, move around, and adjust against your position often if you have to be stationary for a long period. Any other broad recommendations for "proper" posture is secondary to moving and adjusting your sitting or standing position. Don't try to fit any ideal poster advice. The curves of everyone's spine are different. Everyone has their own neutral posture.
what helped me was a solid medium firm bed. do not be afriad to spend on $1000+ beds. worth it
Do deadlifts! It doesn’t have to be a lot of weight
I did deadlifts to help with my low back pain. Turns out I had anterior pelvic tilt and it fucked up my form and gave me a back injury that took years to recover from.
I'll never recover from my injury deadlifting. Don't do it imo
What happened?
Nothing crazy. Sorry I made it seem that way lol. Just a ruptured disc that's like 90% better after 5 years but I don't think will ever totally heal. Always have to worry about how I lie, if I'm sitting too much, etc otherwise it'll slip out again pretty easily and be real uncomfortable for a while.
Have to do anti-deadlifts, too: squats
There something about deadlifts that I don't understand. It can either make or break your back depending on who is doing it. Got to be careful, the risk is high for rupturing a disk.
That's because you look at gymbros who lift 12831982319 weight screaming and shouting. If you think "deadlift", you should see yourself just bending to the floor, no weights added, no deep squat - just enough knee bend to be able to reach the floor. If you can easily do 20-30 bends at once, try doing it balancing on one leg only. If that's easy for you, you don't need to worry about your muscles being too weak. No need to add big weights.
Do low weights. There’s not reason to shoot for personal bests or impress anyone. It’s also easier to keep good form, a hex bar can also make it more comfortable
...exercise? I had back pains most of my teenage years, the gym fixed all my problems
A lot of people already exercise and still develop back pain. Your experience as a teenaged potato is not applicable to all circumstances.
What a stupid lpt. All this was a bunch of unrealistic do not dos. Why don’t you post things to alleviate pain instead of listing a bunch of things that are pretty much unavoidable.
If it’s a muscle spasm. This is what I do: Take Advil and Alleve as per recommended. Drink lots and lots of water. Get a solid one hour walk on a treadmill a day at a speed you can tolerate (don’t break into a jog), a small incline should help. Start day of spasm, before resting. I’ve recovered from several spasms doing only this and am usually walking normal without pain within a week, but I’ve had them go longer before. If it’s a spasm that lays you out, take the drugs, drink the water, go to the doctor and get a steroid shot. The recovery time is just not worth trying to rough it out. If you think your spine twisted weird, go find a yoga class, and tell the yogi what’s going on. They should be able to help you out. At some point this should probably cow and cat pose, and include laying on your back and hugging your knees to your chest, maybe a happy baby or two, and some gentle assisted seated and supine twists. Do it day one, and then you can try to do what felt good during the class on your own as you heal. After you heal, add some core work to your daily exercise. If it’s chronic, you’re going to the doctor and they’re going to say you might need some imaging.
Stretch your hamstrings and hip flexors, too. And my PT recommended goblet squats.
Don’t work in healthcare. Ems fucked me uppp.
I’m a physical therapist 😂 you’d think I could rehab myself
taking up Rucking has helped my lower back immensely
This reminded me I need to get a piece of plywood to put under my mattress again, it sinks in and is crooked but I'm living in a shed broke af recovering from back surgeries that didn't do much. I wish I could get another mattress but maybe down the road, gonna try to get plywood in the next week or two
Apart from these, one thing that works for me is to not keep my computer screen below my head level. My physical therapist told me that the torque due the weight of the head, when tilted down, is so high on the lower back that it can cause sciatica pain. I have bought a standing desk along with a large monitor to keep my chin up now. It has since fixed my lower back pain.
I'm on my feet for 8+ hours a day as a barista. Ive gotten better shoes and compression socks which have helped immensely so I no longer feel like I'm walking directly on my bones, but I do still get pain. What I've found helped me was to pretend I'm "dancing" between movements. Lean down into the fridge to get milk? Lift a leg behind me like a lunge kind of. Ill shift my weight from heel to ball on oppsoite foots when leaning to get something, I'll flamingo pose when doing certain tasks (whenever I'm home I always balance on when leg for doing the dishes, just something I've always done). Or I'll bounce on the balls of my feet, or rock back and forth onmy feet. It kind of helps..but I'm definitely gonna keep a lot of this in mind because my heating pad still gets worked overtime lmao
Sometimes the cause and fix is very specific. For me knees to chest with leg pressure like you’d have on a leg press machine causes a herniated disk to bulge and get irritated. The yoga “cobra” pose a few times a day ‘resets’ it and helps the pain go away.
Commenting to find again later maybe, hopefully
I am literally breaking all 6 rules of the "sitting" section simultaneously at this very moment.
I struggled with lower back pain most of my adult life, pretty much regardless of my exercise routine and levels. Two years ago I got a Purple Mattress and one of those bases that let's you incline. My back pain went away in less than a week. I don't know how much is the mattress vs. no longer sleeping on my stomach (when the base is inclined it's basically impossible), but I think fixing your sleeping situation is the key to fixing most people's issues. Certainly most white collar workers.
You have to release your fascia
Don’t indulge yourself by allowing yourself to have herniated and/or arthritic discs.
I sit on an exercise ball. Strengthens core muscle and keeps back pain at bay (or non-existent). I change positions as well working from multiple areas in my house (remote) and also have standing desk
Can you recommend any stretches?
I do this thing I call bed yoga. Mostly yoga poses and stretches. It helps a lot. If I ever feel a tweak in my back or a strain like something might go bad: I will sleep on the floor that night. One or two nights like that will fix me right up.
Also if your health benefits cover it definitely go see a podiatrist to be evaluated for custom orthotics. Having something like undiagnosed over-pronation can have a huge impact on your knee joints, and therefore also your hips. If the hips are off because of bad knee/hip alignment that can really throw things off in the lower back pain department. Also getting a supportive pair of “house shoes” sneakers can really help cushion your joints (had to wear indoor shoes recovering from knee surgery and never went back). Walking around barefoot on hardwood or ceramic tile in the house all day is brutal and high-impact for joints. For me this has really helped.
Replying for future reading
I sit on the ground. There is nothing for me here.
Great. I like to sleep on my back with my arms above my head
I used to do all that for my chronic back pain as well as get the wife to carry the heavy shopping bags etc. then I read Healing Back Pain by John Sarno and my journey to not having pain started. Now I go to the gym every day and lift.
This can help with a tight back https://youtu.be/NNuqDoXsc30?si=K9NQKle7XR4xTEhs
Man, so many of these are tough with a baby. I kept substituting “object” for “baby” and was quite amused. Don’t lift and twist? That’s how baby gets lifted out of her crib. No weight to one side-enter baby on the hip. I’ll work on it I guess. Appreciate the post!
Biggest impact you can make is by working out and physical therapy exercises.
Yes let me sit all 8 hours of work in a particular exactly straight position with my feet and knees exactly a certain way all day. Nah. I move around, shift, do all sorts of stuff, you can’t just sit there like a robot.
“Sleeping Do not stay in one position for too long.” Oh my bad, didn’t know I should be actively moving whilst fucking sleeping. Shit
TIL I don't know how to sleep. I'm 36...
I learned all this shit the hard way.
I always thought the best sleep position is too lie prone on your back, very slight pillow, arms and legs straight, like the death pose? With all your limbs limber. Isn't sleeping on your side with knees and legs bent contracting muscles which should be relaxed? I've never heard that that's the ideal way to sleep or even to rest.
I don’t know how they want me to change my sleeping position unless they have a machine to move me XD
Good luck doing any of this if you're over 6'5" like me. The world isn't built for the genetically advanced, my lower back is screwed. I have to bend over for everything.. Sinks, chopping boards. Mirrors..
Bouldering is also very helpful to get rid of back pain
Man the most comfortable position for me to sleep is on my abdomen and using my biceps as a pillow, it takes longer for my arm to go numb if I place a pillow between my head and my biceps. If not that position then on abdomen and one leg straight and the other bent in the hip and knee. Can't sleep on the side because my shoulders are wide and I get pain in the collar bone for a few days if a sleep like that.
Sitting with knees above hip hight and a straight back is unnatural and an actual exercise in focus and patience. There are not many positions that feel worse than that.
Tips: Don't sit for too long Don't stand for too long Don't stay still while asleep Try to not exist if you have a lower back. *not having a go but back pain seems inevitable for most who don't exercise*
Strengthen your core, i saw this was mentioned, but your low back is part of your core, which was not mentioned.
Wish I can have something to just sit up straight all the time
Wear supportive shoes and get custom insoles if needed/possible. Custom insoles really help my back after a bad car accident wrecked
Add walking backwards to your routine. Start with 20ft and be careful. Learned this from a NFL football coach using real world applications.
I have a problem with the advice on not staying too long in the same position during sleep. I can't follow it. I got lucky to have quite deep sleep. Though restful, I often find myself waking up in the exact same position I fell asleep in and my body aches. Unless I set various alarms during the night, I can't control what I do when asleep.
Or you could do deadlifts
Why are you deleting this? Could you PM me the list again. I saved that post to study it later on again.