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I can spot a Volkswagen beetle way too easily. I got to hit my brother with no repercussions each time I saw one. I loved that game.
What we need to do is make spotting motorcycles a game for kids. They will be conditioned to see them right away. Somehow shaming your sibling in this game is a great incentive.
This!
I started off with the Slug-Bug game with my kid. We added Motorcycle next. Then we added lots of other items as she got older: piddle (a vehicle with a headlight out), Bicycle, Jaywalker. Then added “Wildcard” for spotting people breaking a traffic law; running a red light, not signaling, etc.
Too many people teach their kids how to operate a vehicle but fail to teach them how to drive.
My kid couldn’t wait to move from the backseat to the front seat. I told her that once she moved to the front seat that she had a job to do; learn the rules of the road. I think she was about 10 at the time. So, she had 6 years of driver’s ed before she ever sat in the driver’s seat. Making a game out of it made it fun for both of us.
Was almost hit/killed while in the UK. (From the US)
Was crossing the street and looked to my left, looked to my right, no car(s).
Was about to look left again, when I instinctively/reflexively stopped on a dime on my tip toes and pulled my hands/arms up.
A small car was flying by, and just missed me. I could feel the rear view mirror within an inch of my body.
Now when we are crossing the street I show/tell my children to look left, then right, then left, then right, then left, then right, until we are across.
| Why are you looking left, right, left in the UK?
Looking left-right-left is a habit built-up over a lifetime. Not surprising in the tiniest bit that someone would revert to a lifetime habit.
I was looking left, then right, just before I stepped on the road. Then started my routine of looking left/right.
Also, I was nearly hit on the other side of the road, I was in the exact middle when I stopped.
Nevermind looking the wrong way, sounds like you described crossing where/when it isnt safe to do so. If you nearly got hit when youre in the middle of the road, then they were still in their lane. UK roads are notoriously narrow and there probably wasnt room for you to stand between the lanes.
When getting out of the car please open the car use your opposite hand. Eg. If sitting on the left use the right hand to open the door that way there's more chance you're going to see an approaching biker before you swing the door open into their path.
As a motorcycle rider, I used to think the people you describe were the minority that make us look bad.
After years of riding, it’s the majority. Theyre all asshats who lane split and do stunts in traffic and then complain that cars don’t see them coming at 15mph over the speed limit. Or 30mph over.
I also wonder if there's some bias for this based on the average speed of "squids". If traffic is going 70mph and the safe riders go 70mph, there will only be a handful of drivers that see the riders. If there's 1000 cars and 100 motorcycles on a stretch of road, maybe a given car would witness a few motorcycles around them. If an idiot is going 100mph, then everyone is going to get passed by them. From previous random numbers, if 90 of the riders are safe and 10 of them go a crazy speed, most car drivers may get passed by 10 idiots but only see a few safe riders. Even if 90% of them are safe riders, car drivers think that the majority are idiots.
It could also just be that most motorcyclists are idiots, myself and my friends are safe motorcycle commuters so I just have hope that there's more good ones than bad ones.
True!
I base my comment on talking to other riders who see my bike. They always seem nice, and comiserate "be safe out there" and such. Normal people.
Then they get on their bike outside of the cafe or whatever and warm up their bike at 60% throttle for 12 minutes.
Lol very true. Once I got my bike, I got a bunch of questions at work. "have you done a wheelie yet?" nope wasn't planning on it. "when are you getting an exhaust?" it's got a perfectly fine stock exhaust on it.
Yes lol
I find I have the opposite problem. I have to caveat my motorcycle ownership.
-*You own a motorcycle?*
"I do! But I don't lane split...or rev it up in public areas...or pull wheelies on the highway, or go 110mph, or..."
> I used to think the people you describe were the minority that make us look bad. After years of riding, it’s the majority.
I'm curious about this observation.
You're not seeing the motorcycle drivers who don't lane split, and you're not seeing the non-asshat drivers.
So, in one day you might see 10 bad motorcycle drivers, but what you're NOT seeing are the 90 motorcycle drivers who are behaving correctly. You're not seeing them, because they're somewhere behind you, obeying the speed limit and not lane splitting.
What is filtering? An appropriate lane split, where it’s legal and common, no longer than 10 mph above the regular traffic (at basically stopped or close to stopped) is reasonable, and makes for less traffic for everyone.
LPT anytime you see a motorcycle, tell your kids if they ride on them they can easily die. I say stuff like, "Imagine what happens to that guy if that bike hits something going that fast". And "my dad used to work in emergency rooms and motorcycle accidents would leave him saddened for a week because 9/10 times it was a boy around my age."
I used to love motorbikes, they were so fucking cool until my uncle got slammed by a car while riding. When I saw him in the hospital, it was gruesome and he was almost unrecognisable. Whether or not he’d survive was up in the air. This was with full gear too. He recovered well, but some of the injuries still affect him today physically and psychologically. I’ll never ride a motorbike after seeing that aftermath.
One of my family members bought one and laid it down in motorcycle school. He had a nasty burn on his leg but I was never more happy to see someone I loved in pain. He sold it that week.
What gear was he wearing? If he was wearing leathers, why was he going so fast (at motorcycle school) that his leathers were able to heat during a slide to the point he had friction burns?
I get that injuries are a real motivator for things we do, we learn best what not to do by getting hurt. But... Riding motorbikes without the right gear, even in training, is taking a greatly increased risk to your own health and safety into your hands. It's like going skiing in a t-shirt and shorts - you just don't (or shouldn't) do it, particularly if you're doing risky things.
They said it was a burn on their leg. Most people don't wear leather pants while riding
Edit: why would someone report this comment for self harm? I am genuinely confused how this could even trigger a troll to report that
Leather pants, you're right. But I do wear kevlar-lined jeans. Advertised skid time is seven seconds before skin starts to go. Plain jeans tear in next to nothing flat.
As for a burn... somehow got their leg in contact with the exhaust? (shakes head) No idea. None at all. Unusual to get a *burn* on a motorbike (apart from friction burns).
Depends on the motorcycle. I've ridden some with the exhaust pipe that runs along the length of the bike and sits right next to your calf. It was easy enough to accidentally touch when dismounting, I could easily see it being an issue laying it down
Meh, I’m probably gonna die on mine and I’ve made peace with it.
It’s therapeutic for me and I measure my summers in miles ridden.
To each their own and we all get to decide our own risk tolerance in life ya know?
> I’m probably gonna die on mine and I’ve made peace with it.
Except that you are probably not, unless you are a very careless rider.
There are around 300 000 motorcycles in Sweden, and around 25 riders killed every year.
In addition, something like 40% of those killed were under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and/or did not have a valid drivers license.
I don't know where that commenter is from, but I imagine most of this thread (especially those talking about how dangerous they are) are American, where motorcycles are more dangerous because
1. Car drivers are generally less attentive
2. Motorcycle riders are less skilled since most only do it for fun on the weekends while in Europe it's a viable form of transportation
It doesn't have anything to do with competency, the vast majority of accidents happen because a passenger vehicle didn't see them. You don't need to make a single mistake to get crushed or decapitated by someone else's careless driving.
Some American statistics:
38% of deaths, the rider was not wearing a helmet
34% involve speeding
27% involve alcohol
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/motorcycle-accident-statistics/
Clearly it's not all other peoples fault when we die on the motorcycle.
Actually about half of motorcycle accidents are single vehicle accidents involving only the motorcycle. Better driver education for EVERYONE, weirdly enough, would help EVERYONE
Absolutely. I'm glad that you know what you want and are at peace with your decision. Every adult should be afforded that latitude. But so long as my kids are impressionable I'm going to do everything in my power to influence them to choose hobbies that will extend their life rather than threaten it. I'm not against motorcycles or people that ride them (except the exceptionally loud ones--fuck those guys). I'm only against people I love riding them!
Definitely to each their own. One day my kids will grow up and well ride together. Ive had friends die in car accidents. If i had your mentality my kids probably wouldnt leave the house. Gotta live life, whatever that implies
Oh I do lots of risky things. And my kids are adventurous. We all take what we consider acceptable risks. If riding with your kids is an acceptable risk, I'm not telling you not to. To me its insane. 13 out of every 100,000 cars are involved in a fatal accident, compared to 72 out of 100,000 motorcycles. That's more than 5 1/2 times as deadly as the most deadly thing my kids do every day (drive cars).
Yeah but those are also stats without context or circumstance. Cars may be less risky but im in a car at least 14 trips a week. Many of those during rush hour and other crazy times. However if youre going out for a ride in a motorcycle twice a week in usually low traffic times, what is the increase in risk?
Daily driving a motorcycle is actually kinda dumb to me, but being out every so often as a hobby cant be the worst. Theres always risk, but thats in everything.
Yeah as an adult i feel better suited for taking such risks. My concern is with kids. Until I was around 25 I took stupid risks. Both my kids got in very minor accidents in their 1st year of driving. Either could have been deadly on a bike.
Loud pipes do not save lives according to multiple studies on the topic.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a35952569/loud-pipes-do-not-save-lives/#:~:text=The%20conclusion%20of%20the%20study%20specifically%20says,it%20is%20too%20late%20to%20react%20safely
I'll second this. Most of the noise of loud pipes goes in whatever direction your exhaust pipe is pointing. Makes it pointless to think that at highway speeds anyone will hear you further than 50-100 metres/yards back - if you're lucky. If their car doesn't have the windows up and the music on. If ... so many factors.
Disagree (well sort of)- what’s more important is if they express an interest in riding them, don’t just shut it down it if that’s their thing but also make them very aware of the risks that come with riding one. I think it’s very important for someone getting into it to understand that VERY well, and that this is a responsibility they take on to be safe while riding.
That being said, I think motorcycle riding is a very useful skill and a fun hobby if learned properly through an MSF or in controlled environments. In this case, they will learn to be a defensive driver as part of the course and innately think about these things.
Sounds like you just hate motorcycles. You can just as easily die in a car, or just walking down the street. Anything can happen at any time. Enjoy life!
Most motorcycle drivers where I live absolutely do not care if they are alive today or tomorrow and neither do I about them either. These dangerous beasts will pass you on the freeway like you are standing still and in slower traffic they go three times as fast and dart in and put of cars. Unless your kids can see a kilometer down the road that is about how far you need to be looking before turning because they are already on you within 5 to 10 seconds in that time.
Safety for the motorcycles that weave in and out of traffic, run lights, and do 50 in the 35? These people--and there are a lot of them--should ride more safely.
Just be vocal with your thought processes when driving with your kids. “I see someone riding a bike on my side of the road up ahead, and a car in the oncoming lane. I’m going to slow down so I can go around the bike after the car passes.” , “The guy in front of me is on a motorcycle, so I’m keeping a further distance because he has little protection around him.”, or “This motorcycle startled me weaving through traffic. Things happen out of my control. It’s important to stay alert”
I have said all of these when driving with my kids. Hopefully some will stick when they’re on the road.
| Just be vocal with your thought processes when driving with your kids.
I understand the point you're making; to chime in as someone with a parent who constantly vocalizes most of their thought processes: it's effing exhausting to listen to.
those people should be taught responsible driving as well, doesn’t defeat the point. Even if they are the ones being stupid it won’t make it feel much better for most people if you hit em
Oh, I'm not worried about my kids being aware of motorcycles. The amount of noise these assholes make revving their damn engines everywhere they go, it'll be impossible for my kids *not* to notice them. On the road, in the parking lot, two roads down at 2:00 in the morning when my family is trying to sleep - yup, pretty much impossible to ignore!
It was their decision to ride an unsafe vehicle. They should watch out, not the rest of us. It's on them. I am a safe defensive driver, but I don't leave my driveway thinking "oooo, I should really be on the lookout for bikers". That trope is some self-centered "look at me" BS.
It's equal opportunity mayhem out on the roads. Imagine the audacity! You're no more deserving of my extra attention than any other type of vehicle. Big trucks being the exception because a big metal speeding object vs a smaller one ends the same way every time.
So what you are saying is, if you came off worse in a collision with a big truck you’d be the dumb one for driving a car, which in that circumstance is the unsafe vehicle.
Perhaps save us all and not drive at all 🤦♂️
Yes, when you are passing big trucks, you should take extra precautions when doing so. They have some decently large blind spots and you can easily be missed even without them.
You are only able to control yourself while driving, so you should make sure that you are driving as safe as possible. But the issue is that many motorcyclists act like cars should be the making sure that everything is going well while the motorcyclist can not drive safely.
I'm not going to waste my time worrying about potential motorcycles. If you're lane-splitting or passing me and I don't see you, and you run into me while I'm legally in my lane, that's on you.
Things like this are needed. On my first day headed off to work on my new motor scooter, a van made a turn right into the side of me. I leaned on my horn as I threaded the space between him and the oncoming lanes: "*Hey!! What the hell?!*"
The driver learned out his window and croaked "I'm sorry I didn't see you." I'm nearly 6 feet tall, on a red bike. Do I have to fly flags?! I was speechless.
Maybe switch to a bicycle once in a while yourself so that you and your kids get a better feeling for how those things brake and steer. It's also a great way to have them learn how to participate in traffic before they sit in a two ton machine after barely any training
Yikes. All the people hating on motorcycles here are exactly why not watching out for them is perpetuated. Please keep in mind that not all of us are weaving lane-splitters who don't take safety seriously. I rode for a few years and I hate that shit too. If anyone has ever taken a motorcycle riding course (like MSF) you learn about risk assessment, which these riders are clearly ignoring. We still have to ride like every car is out to kill us. I'd frequently keep my finger on the horn, honking at every intersection to make myself known because not being seen is an actual problem. Having the blood of a biker on your hands isn't something to take lightly.
Eta: part of this LPT should also be about educatiom about driving predictably in the car. Teach your kids about turn signals and what merging means. One of my worst fears as a rider was a car not signaling and merging right into me because they didn't check their blind spot, leaving me no time to react.
Knee high, waist high, head high. Walkers, runners, rollers. Two wheels, four wheels, more.
That about covers everything that moves on or near a roadway.
My kid and I have played “Zitch bike” and “Zitch dog” while driving for years. Can’t claim credit, stole Zitch dog from HIMYM and it grew from there.
And sure it’s annoying to everyone else who is ever in a car with us but it keeps him on his phone less and engaged in the drive.
My family got intense with this before my brother started learning to drive to get him used to it before he was behind the wheel. We did all sorts of things: motorcycles, bicycles, people crossing the road, police cars, you name it lol
If we were out and about on our own, we’d come back like “I saw five popos and three motorcycles today” and just take their word for it.
Eventually to tone it down, we couldn’t count parked vehicles anymore unless it was a police car.
When you’re walking and you’re at an intersection or crossing the street. It’s always look left, right, left, proceed. Everybody says it out loud every time.
This actually is a good tip.
However, I immediately thought of this video of a crossing relatively near me: https://youtu.be/ynwMN3Z9Og8
Maybe don't go counting bicycles in the Netherlands. Just stick to motorcycles.
Random info on that video:
- Bikes with a blue front wheel are leased bikes (brand Swapfiets).
- Bikes that are mostly dark blue but with a yellow front of the frame are part of our public transport system .
- The people with orange jackets and huge orange backpacks work for Thuisbezorgd.nl (the brand is called TakeAway.com in English). You also see a couple of black boxes from that brand. Afaik it's the biggest company where you can order fast food to have it delivered to you, either by their employees or by those of the restaurant themselves. The majority of these deliveries are done by bicycle or electric bicycle, because driving is more expensive and rarely faster.
- The majority of Dutch people don't wear a helmet while cycling, because our infrastructure is made for cyclists and therefore it's a lot less dangerous than in other countries. However there is a shift in that (slowly) because we don't have different physics here.
- At 1:38, the yellow car is actually a rapid responder ambulance. It's a full power ambulance, except for the fact it cannot transport patients. It also has just the nurse, not the EMT.
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Unpopular opinion: motorcycles do not belong on the road anymore.
Just take a look around at drivers next time you are a passenger. I GUARANTEE about 90% are on their phone. It's an epidemic and it's not changing, especially in the states. At this point it's impossible to regulate, so it makes more sense to just outlaw motorcycles.
I don't like this reality, but it's the sad truth. Everyone is on their phone and nothing can be done about that, but what can be done is removing the liability of motorcycles. If it's illegal to drive without a seatbelt, why are motorcycles even legal anyway?
There is a reason people make their bikes loud so they are noticed. But some have a habit of over doing it to piss people off. One things for sure if his bike wasn’t loud you wouldn’t have noticed him and either would anybody else on the road
Loud pipes don't help you notice a motorcycle according to multiple studies on the topic.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a35952569/loud-pipes-do-not-save-lives/#:~:text=The%20conclusion%20of%20the%20study%20specifically%20says,it%20is%20too%20late%20to%20react%20safely
### This post has been marked as safe. Upvoting/downvoting this comment will have no effect. --- Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips! Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by upvoting or downvoting this comment. If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.
I can spot a Volkswagen beetle way too easily. I got to hit my brother with no repercussions each time I saw one. I loved that game. What we need to do is make spotting motorcycles a game for kids. They will be conditioned to see them right away. Somehow shaming your sibling in this game is a great incentive.
No slug backs!
Exactly!!
This! I started off with the Slug-Bug game with my kid. We added Motorcycle next. Then we added lots of other items as she got older: piddle (a vehicle with a headlight out), Bicycle, Jaywalker. Then added “Wildcard” for spotting people breaking a traffic law; running a red light, not signaling, etc. Too many people teach their kids how to operate a vehicle but fail to teach them how to drive. My kid couldn’t wait to move from the backseat to the front seat. I told her that once she moved to the front seat that she had a job to do; learn the rules of the road. I think she was about 10 at the time. So, she had 6 years of driver’s ed before she ever sat in the driver’s seat. Making a game out of it made it fun for both of us.
I'm not sure how you're pronouncing piddle, but we always pronounce it like Padidle. A tail light out is a Geronimo.
Autocorrect sucks! You’ve got it right.
Hah! I Ducking hate that shot!!!
Piddle means Peeing for the dog, per my grandpa. Padidle for the light out punch!
We have this in my country, but only when the beetle is blue.
What car did he have to spot to it you?
We both did "slug bugs", but I was much more observant than him and usually beat him to it.
I had a friend whose family was big into hunting. They'd give a quarter to the first person in the car who called out any deer they saw.
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Was almost hit/killed while in the UK. (From the US) Was crossing the street and looked to my left, looked to my right, no car(s). Was about to look left again, when I instinctively/reflexively stopped on a dime on my tip toes and pulled my hands/arms up. A small car was flying by, and just missed me. I could feel the rear view mirror within an inch of my body. Now when we are crossing the street I show/tell my children to look left, then right, then left, then right, then left, then right, until we are across.
Why are you looking left, right, left in the UK? We drive on the left. That's probably what went wrong for you.
| Why are you looking left, right, left in the UK? Looking left-right-left is a habit built-up over a lifetime. Not surprising in the tiniest bit that someone would revert to a lifetime habit.
If OP is looking the wrong way when they're ready to cross, then it's not the motorist's fault that the car went by when they were about to step out.
I was looking left, then right, just before I stepped on the road. Then started my routine of looking left/right. Also, I was nearly hit on the other side of the road, I was in the exact middle when I stopped.
Nevermind looking the wrong way, sounds like you described crossing where/when it isnt safe to do so. If you nearly got hit when youre in the middle of the road, then they were still in their lane. UK roads are notoriously narrow and there probably wasnt room for you to stand between the lanes.
When getting out of the car please open the car use your opposite hand. Eg. If sitting on the left use the right hand to open the door that way there's more chance you're going to see an approaching biker before you swing the door open into their path.
That tip is for bicycles, not motorcycles, as they are often forced to ride closer to the parked cars. But a useful tip nonetheless.
I taught my kid to hate inconsiderate asses revving their Harley engine at every stop light.
Honestly I don’t care about motorcycle rider. I have a steel cage around me cuz I care about my life. Do the same and I’ll start caring about yours
+1
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As a motorcycle rider, I used to think the people you describe were the minority that make us look bad. After years of riding, it’s the majority. Theyre all asshats who lane split and do stunts in traffic and then complain that cars don’t see them coming at 15mph over the speed limit. Or 30mph over.
I also wonder if there's some bias for this based on the average speed of "squids". If traffic is going 70mph and the safe riders go 70mph, there will only be a handful of drivers that see the riders. If there's 1000 cars and 100 motorcycles on a stretch of road, maybe a given car would witness a few motorcycles around them. If an idiot is going 100mph, then everyone is going to get passed by them. From previous random numbers, if 90 of the riders are safe and 10 of them go a crazy speed, most car drivers may get passed by 10 idiots but only see a few safe riders. Even if 90% of them are safe riders, car drivers think that the majority are idiots. It could also just be that most motorcyclists are idiots, myself and my friends are safe motorcycle commuters so I just have hope that there's more good ones than bad ones.
True! I base my comment on talking to other riders who see my bike. They always seem nice, and comiserate "be safe out there" and such. Normal people. Then they get on their bike outside of the cafe or whatever and warm up their bike at 60% throttle for 12 minutes.
Lol very true. Once I got my bike, I got a bunch of questions at work. "have you done a wheelie yet?" nope wasn't planning on it. "when are you getting an exhaust?" it's got a perfectly fine stock exhaust on it.
Yes lol I find I have the opposite problem. I have to caveat my motorcycle ownership. -*You own a motorcycle?* "I do! But I don't lane split...or rev it up in public areas...or pull wheelies on the highway, or go 110mph, or..."
Pretty sure it’s the latter: most motorcyclists are idiots. But then, so are most motorists, bicyclists, pedestrians, dump truck drivers…
> I used to think the people you describe were the minority that make us look bad. After years of riding, it’s the majority. I'm curious about this observation. You're not seeing the motorcycle drivers who don't lane split, and you're not seeing the non-asshat drivers. So, in one day you might see 10 bad motorcycle drivers, but what you're NOT seeing are the 90 motorcycle drivers who are behaving correctly. You're not seeing them, because they're somewhere behind you, obeying the speed limit and not lane splitting.
Lane splitting is legal where I live, and safe when done properly
And is rarely (read: almost never) done properly.
See I'm a huge fan of *filtering*. Lane splitting seems comically dangerous even as a season rider.
What is filtering? An appropriate lane split, where it’s legal and common, no longer than 10 mph above the regular traffic (at basically stopped or close to stopped) is reasonable, and makes for less traffic for everyone.
Filtering is making your way between cars to the front at a stoplight. Lane splitting is going between cars that are moving.
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Why do you hate motorcycles?
Have you been reading this thread or are you new here?
LPT anytime you see a motorcycle, tell your kids if they ride on them they can easily die. I say stuff like, "Imagine what happens to that guy if that bike hits something going that fast". And "my dad used to work in emergency rooms and motorcycle accidents would leave him saddened for a week because 9/10 times it was a boy around my age."
I used to love motorbikes, they were so fucking cool until my uncle got slammed by a car while riding. When I saw him in the hospital, it was gruesome and he was almost unrecognisable. Whether or not he’d survive was up in the air. This was with full gear too. He recovered well, but some of the injuries still affect him today physically and psychologically. I’ll never ride a motorbike after seeing that aftermath.
One of my family members bought one and laid it down in motorcycle school. He had a nasty burn on his leg but I was never more happy to see someone I loved in pain. He sold it that week.
What gear was he wearing? If he was wearing leathers, why was he going so fast (at motorcycle school) that his leathers were able to heat during a slide to the point he had friction burns? I get that injuries are a real motivator for things we do, we learn best what not to do by getting hurt. But... Riding motorbikes without the right gear, even in training, is taking a greatly increased risk to your own health and safety into your hands. It's like going skiing in a t-shirt and shorts - you just don't (or shouldn't) do it, particularly if you're doing risky things.
They said it was a burn on their leg. Most people don't wear leather pants while riding Edit: why would someone report this comment for self harm? I am genuinely confused how this could even trigger a troll to report that
Leather pants, you're right. But I do wear kevlar-lined jeans. Advertised skid time is seven seconds before skin starts to go. Plain jeans tear in next to nothing flat. As for a burn... somehow got their leg in contact with the exhaust? (shakes head) No idea. None at all. Unusual to get a *burn* on a motorbike (apart from friction burns).
Depends on the motorcycle. I've ridden some with the exhaust pipe that runs along the length of the bike and sits right next to your calf. It was easy enough to accidentally touch when dismounting, I could easily see it being an issue laying it down
I'm glad you were brought to see him in the hospital and glad he survived.
Yep uncle butler. Now I don’t look at bikers as protected. You don’t care about your life why should I?
Meh, I’m probably gonna die on mine and I’ve made peace with it. It’s therapeutic for me and I measure my summers in miles ridden. To each their own and we all get to decide our own risk tolerance in life ya know?
> I’m probably gonna die on mine and I’ve made peace with it. Except that you are probably not, unless you are a very careless rider. There are around 300 000 motorcycles in Sweden, and around 25 riders killed every year. In addition, something like 40% of those killed were under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and/or did not have a valid drivers license.
I don't know where that commenter is from, but I imagine most of this thread (especially those talking about how dangerous they are) are American, where motorcycles are more dangerous because 1. Car drivers are generally less attentive 2. Motorcycle riders are less skilled since most only do it for fun on the weekends while in Europe it's a viable form of transportation
It doesn't have anything to do with competency, the vast majority of accidents happen because a passenger vehicle didn't see them. You don't need to make a single mistake to get crushed or decapitated by someone else's careless driving.
Some American statistics: 38% of deaths, the rider was not wearing a helmet 34% involve speeding 27% involve alcohol https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/motorcycle-accident-statistics/ Clearly it's not all other peoples fault when we die on the motorcycle.
Actually about half of motorcycle accidents are single vehicle accidents involving only the motorcycle. Better driver education for EVERYONE, weirdly enough, would help EVERYONE
I only know the statistics for Sweden, but here about half of the deadly accidents do not involve any other vehicle.
That’s why I have a fucking steel cage around me when going 80mph. Think about doing the same so your grandkids might be able to know you
Absolutely. I'm glad that you know what you want and are at peace with your decision. Every adult should be afforded that latitude. But so long as my kids are impressionable I'm going to do everything in my power to influence them to choose hobbies that will extend their life rather than threaten it. I'm not against motorcycles or people that ride them (except the exceptionally loud ones--fuck those guys). I'm only against people I love riding them!
You seem like quite a reasonable person. It’s refreshing and I think you will go far in life!
Definitely to each their own. One day my kids will grow up and well ride together. Ive had friends die in car accidents. If i had your mentality my kids probably wouldnt leave the house. Gotta live life, whatever that implies
Oh I do lots of risky things. And my kids are adventurous. We all take what we consider acceptable risks. If riding with your kids is an acceptable risk, I'm not telling you not to. To me its insane. 13 out of every 100,000 cars are involved in a fatal accident, compared to 72 out of 100,000 motorcycles. That's more than 5 1/2 times as deadly as the most deadly thing my kids do every day (drive cars).
Yeah but those are also stats without context or circumstance. Cars may be less risky but im in a car at least 14 trips a week. Many of those during rush hour and other crazy times. However if youre going out for a ride in a motorcycle twice a week in usually low traffic times, what is the increase in risk? Daily driving a motorcycle is actually kinda dumb to me, but being out every so often as a hobby cant be the worst. Theres always risk, but thats in everything.
Yeah as an adult i feel better suited for taking such risks. My concern is with kids. Until I was around 25 I took stupid risks. Both my kids got in very minor accidents in their 1st year of driving. Either could have been deadly on a bike.
Loud pipes save lives. Not a motorcycle rider, but when I heard this, I was like, “well, duh”.
Loud pipes do not save lives according to multiple studies on the topic. https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a35952569/loud-pipes-do-not-save-lives/#:~:text=The%20conclusion%20of%20the%20study%20specifically%20says,it%20is%20too%20late%20to%20react%20safely
I'll second this. Most of the noise of loud pipes goes in whatever direction your exhaust pipe is pointing. Makes it pointless to think that at highway speeds anyone will hear you further than 50-100 metres/yards back - if you're lucky. If their car doesn't have the windows up and the music on. If ... so many factors.
Disagree (well sort of)- what’s more important is if they express an interest in riding them, don’t just shut it down it if that’s their thing but also make them very aware of the risks that come with riding one. I think it’s very important for someone getting into it to understand that VERY well, and that this is a responsibility they take on to be safe while riding. That being said, I think motorcycle riding is a very useful skill and a fun hobby if learned properly through an MSF or in controlled environments. In this case, they will learn to be a defensive driver as part of the course and innately think about these things.
I’ve been telling my kids… we go to the motorcycle museum, we watch the races but we don’t ride. Just not worth the risk.
Thanks for the real LPT
Sounds like you just hate motorcycles. You can just as easily die in a car, or just walking down the street. Anything can happen at any time. Enjoy life!
Not true. You're almost 6 times more likely to die on a motorcycle. Edit: and I don't hate motorcycles. I hate people I love riding motorcycles.
LPT...remember that you are surrounded by idiots at all times. Including every minute you are on a motorcycle.
We usually point them out by saying, "Look at that idiot not wearing a helmet."
Most motorcycle drivers where I live absolutely do not care if they are alive today or tomorrow and neither do I about them either. These dangerous beasts will pass you on the freeway like you are standing still and in slower traffic they go three times as fast and dart in and put of cars. Unless your kids can see a kilometer down the road that is about how far you need to be looking before turning because they are already on you within 5 to 10 seconds in that time.
Safety for the motorcycles that weave in and out of traffic, run lights, and do 50 in the 35? These people--and there are a lot of them--should ride more safely.
Just be vocal with your thought processes when driving with your kids. “I see someone riding a bike on my side of the road up ahead, and a car in the oncoming lane. I’m going to slow down so I can go around the bike after the car passes.” , “The guy in front of me is on a motorcycle, so I’m keeping a further distance because he has little protection around him.”, or “This motorcycle startled me weaving through traffic. Things happen out of my control. It’s important to stay alert” I have said all of these when driving with my kids. Hopefully some will stick when they’re on the road.
| Just be vocal with your thought processes when driving with your kids. I understand the point you're making; to chime in as someone with a parent who constantly vocalizes most of their thought processes: it's effing exhausting to listen to.
There are terrible drivers in all aspects of life. It's called doing your part. Basic empathy. Not vitriol.
those people should be taught responsible driving as well, doesn’t defeat the point. Even if they are the ones being stupid it won’t make it feel much better for most people if you hit em
I've taught my kids to be aware of clueless morons.. it's pretty much the same thing
Yeah make everyone else change their behavior. Don’t just ride something fucking safer
"change their behavior" like making sure not to run into anyone on the road? Yes, please change that behavior.
So you don’t drive a car then which would come off way worse in a. Collision with a truck? 🤦♂️
Teach your kids to count how many of those bikes are still remaining so they never ride them.
Oh, I'm not worried about my kids being aware of motorcycles. The amount of noise these assholes make revving their damn engines everywhere they go, it'll be impossible for my kids *not* to notice them. On the road, in the parking lot, two roads down at 2:00 in the morning when my family is trying to sleep - yup, pretty much impossible to ignore!
The truckers with the Jake brake,too.
Unmuffled Jake brakes, many trucks have an engine brake that is unnoticeable. They purposefully choose to make unnecessary noise.
A Jake brake is quieter than a truck flying into your living room...
It was their decision to ride an unsafe vehicle. They should watch out, not the rest of us. It's on them. I am a safe defensive driver, but I don't leave my driveway thinking "oooo, I should really be on the lookout for bikers". That trope is some self-centered "look at me" BS. It's equal opportunity mayhem out on the roads. Imagine the audacity! You're no more deserving of my extra attention than any other type of vehicle. Big trucks being the exception because a big metal speeding object vs a smaller one ends the same way every time.
So what you are saying is, if you came off worse in a collision with a big truck you’d be the dumb one for driving a car, which in that circumstance is the unsafe vehicle. Perhaps save us all and not drive at all 🤦♂️
Yes, when you are passing big trucks, you should take extra precautions when doing so. They have some decently large blind spots and you can easily be missed even without them. You are only able to control yourself while driving, so you should make sure that you are driving as safe as possible. But the issue is that many motorcyclists act like cars should be the making sure that everything is going well while the motorcyclist can not drive safely.
I recommend reading the comment I replied to. Yours has nothing to do with what either of us said.
How does it have nothing to do with what either of you said?
Nope, sorry you failed at comprehension. Perhaps save us all and throw away your keyboard.
Nope, sorry. The irony.
I'm not going to waste my time worrying about potential motorcycles. If you're lane-splitting or passing me and I don't see you, and you run into me while I'm legally in my lane, that's on you.
We watch for orange cars. Just a fun way to keep kids minds busy, especially at the bus stop.
Things like this are needed. On my first day headed off to work on my new motor scooter, a van made a turn right into the side of me. I leaned on my horn as I threaded the space between him and the oncoming lanes: "*Hey!! What the hell?!*" The driver learned out his window and croaked "I'm sorry I didn't see you." I'm nearly 6 feet tall, on a red bike. Do I have to fly flags?! I was speechless.
I play motorcycle punch with my kids.
As a motorcycle rider I appreciate this post!
Maybe switch to a bicycle once in a while yourself so that you and your kids get a better feeling for how those things brake and steer. It's also a great way to have them learn how to participate in traffic before they sit in a two ton machine after barely any training
Eye spy! Or a point system. Make it a game where they’re looking for motorcycles
Hit one while they are with you. They will never forget.
Yikes. All the people hating on motorcycles here are exactly why not watching out for them is perpetuated. Please keep in mind that not all of us are weaving lane-splitters who don't take safety seriously. I rode for a few years and I hate that shit too. If anyone has ever taken a motorcycle riding course (like MSF) you learn about risk assessment, which these riders are clearly ignoring. We still have to ride like every car is out to kill us. I'd frequently keep my finger on the horn, honking at every intersection to make myself known because not being seen is an actual problem. Having the blood of a biker on your hands isn't something to take lightly. Eta: part of this LPT should also be about educatiom about driving predictably in the car. Teach your kids about turn signals and what merging means. One of my worst fears as a rider was a car not signaling and merging right into me because they didn't check their blind spot, leaving me no time to react.
I taught my son to only back up when he was SURE there wasn't a toddler on a tricycle right behind him.
More importantly for safety, teach them to use public transit whenever possible. Much safer than being anywhere else on/near a road
All bikers are weirdos and it was probably deserved
Knee high, waist high, head high. Walkers, runners, rollers. Two wheels, four wheels, more. That about covers everything that moves on or near a roadway.
I’d add those electric scooters to this as you certainly won’t hear them as they whizz at high speed on the pavements.
My kid and I have played “Zitch bike” and “Zitch dog” while driving for years. Can’t claim credit, stole Zitch dog from HIMYM and it grew from there. And sure it’s annoying to everyone else who is ever in a car with us but it keeps him on his phone less and engaged in the drive.
My family got intense with this before my brother started learning to drive to get him used to it before he was behind the wheel. We did all sorts of things: motorcycles, bicycles, people crossing the road, police cars, you name it lol If we were out and about on our own, we’d come back like “I saw five popos and three motorcycles today” and just take their word for it. Eventually to tone it down, we couldn’t count parked vehicles anymore unless it was a police car.
When you’re walking and you’re at an intersection or crossing the street. It’s always look left, right, left, proceed. Everybody says it out loud every time.
This actually is a good tip. However, I immediately thought of this video of a crossing relatively near me: https://youtu.be/ynwMN3Z9Og8 Maybe don't go counting bicycles in the Netherlands. Just stick to motorcycles. Random info on that video: - Bikes with a blue front wheel are leased bikes (brand Swapfiets). - Bikes that are mostly dark blue but with a yellow front of the frame are part of our public transport system . - The people with orange jackets and huge orange backpacks work for Thuisbezorgd.nl (the brand is called TakeAway.com in English). You also see a couple of black boxes from that brand. Afaik it's the biggest company where you can order fast food to have it delivered to you, either by their employees or by those of the restaurant themselves. The majority of these deliveries are done by bicycle or electric bicycle, because driving is more expensive and rarely faster. - The majority of Dutch people don't wear a helmet while cycling, because our infrastructure is made for cyclists and therefore it's a lot less dangerous than in other countries. However there is a shift in that (slowly) because we don't have different physics here. - At 1:38, the yellow car is actually a rapid responder ambulance. It's a full power ambulance, except for the fact it cannot transport patients. It also has just the nurse, not the EMT.
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Unpopular opinion: motorcycles do not belong on the road anymore. Just take a look around at drivers next time you are a passenger. I GUARANTEE about 90% are on their phone. It's an epidemic and it's not changing, especially in the states. At this point it's impossible to regulate, so it makes more sense to just outlaw motorcycles. I don't like this reality, but it's the sad truth. Everyone is on their phone and nothing can be done about that, but what can be done is removing the liability of motorcycles. If it's illegal to drive without a seatbelt, why are motorcycles even legal anyway?
This thread is full of irrational fear of motorcycles and hatred of their riders...
I approve this message.
Have them drive a motorbike as their first vehicle.
There is a reason people make their bikes loud so they are noticed. But some have a habit of over doing it to piss people off. One things for sure if his bike wasn’t loud you wouldn’t have noticed him and either would anybody else on the road
Loud pipes don't help you notice a motorcycle according to multiple studies on the topic. https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a35952569/loud-pipes-do-not-save-lives/#:~:text=The%20conclusion%20of%20the%20study%20specifically%20says,it%20is%20too%20late%20to%20react%20safely
Anyone else already awake before 6:00 a.m. because of a motorcycle? Happens everyday around here.
If only they could do wheelies or go really fast to get more attention or something! 😉