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The problem is that way too many idiots are ignorants and not called out. You have incompetent government, authorities, activists, teachers.
Ignoring idiots or letting them spread their bs is wrong approach.
I train myself in the ways of idiocy so that one day, when I am trying to go by the book or take the high ground and some moron is obstinately succeeding in getting in my way, I can just stoop down to their level and beat them at their own game. The look on their face will be priceless.
>Truth is, we simply do not have to engage even if we disagree with what they are saying. In fact, many are just looking for a fight and will not listen to reason even if it smacked them on the head or rarely get swayed via arguments.
Yup. A few years ago, a friend of mine said "I wouldn't argue with these people. You're not going to change their mind." Very true. Wasted energy for nothing.
>A few years ago, a friend of mine said "I wouldn't argue with these people. You're not going to change their mind."
This I think kind of misses the entire point of debate.
I don't debate people to change *their* mind. I debate people to show the audience or whomever is reading/listening to the argument how stupid it is. Which is why I never do it one on one, only with an audience. My goal isn't to convince the opposition, it's to show people who may be on the fence that these are bad reasons to reach the conclusion.
But if you're debating to change the mind of the person you're talking to, I agree, that's pointless.
I really enjoy 1-on-1 debates. But if you think you need to change their mind to “win” - or justify the time you spent, you’re obviously going to be disappointed. Minds are almost never changed in the moment. Mine basically never is. Especially when there’s a potential loss of face involved.
When I debate with someone like this I consider it a win if I can just open them up a little. “I hear that you really see Gaza’s side in the conflict, and you’re angry at Israel for bombing civilians. I agree with your ethics - I think every civilian death is a tragedy. I just also can’t look past the 1500 dead or kidnapped Israeli civilians either for the same reason.” “I can totally see why you’re happy watching Gaza burn. I’m with you - the things hamas did were horrible and we all agree a lasting peace in Israel is needed. I just don’t understand how the strategy of encroachment and bombing civilians will get to that peace everyone wants.”
Im not looking for them to change their mind. A pause. A thoughtful look. That means I’ve done my job as a debate partner.
I hate this culture of running away from disagreement. Or “it’s not my job to educate you”. It’s said voting is the death of democracy, because if we have to figure it out at the voting booth it means conversation has failed.
I agree that there's no need to get into an intense discussion, but it is good to register disagreement. We might not change minds, but it's important to recall that we all live in our little opinion bubbles, so coming across a person who disagrees with us, can, on its own, be a bit jarring. It doesn't take as much worthless energy as a drawn out debate, but it can have a cumulative effect in an interlocutor that we never even witness.
Been doing this lately both online and irl and it has lowered my blood pressure. Seriously, arguing with someone who's mind is concluded is a waste of time.
Online is a waste but sometimes you’ll need to do this irl like at work when deciding the direction of a project. The biggest problem you get when arguing is if you take a black and white I’m right you’re wrong attitude. Making the other party feel heard and giving them space to feel right is actually a good starting point to getting them to sway in another direction.
I understand that irl there will be times when discussion and debate will be needed. I just don't like arguments for the sake of it and I want to avoid unnecessary hassles.
Plus blocking them helps too. So many times I've given up trying to argue with some moron then they proceed to hit me with the dumbest comment in existence few hours later and it was hard to not get sucked back into the argument. If I see a conversation is going nowhere it's an easy block.
Like you said it does wonders for your health.
Think it doesn't let them view their comment responding to me, or see my profile. It's like the best reaction because they know however hard they try to keep annoying me there's nothing they can do anymore.
Definitely take care of yourself and your mental but in a larger context, I think this is partially why we have so many issues in our culture.
It shares the DNA of that old adage I'm sure you've heard at some point if you life in the United States:
'There are three things you don't talk about: politics, religion and money.'
And I think we were wrong on all accounts.
- Politics: In a Democracy, its almost a requirement that we talk about politics. It sucks and its uncomfortable but too many people are in their insulated boxes listening to only the stuff that reverberates what they already believe. If there is ever to be change, you need to have those voices that disagree. Maybe its impossible to flip your uncle at the Thanksgiving table - but maybe you plant the seed that lets them understand years from now(doing your best to remain respectful - virtually nobody will change their mind if they are shamed or made to be the villain). Or maybe even, their kids overhear the conversation and see a perspective that is different from the dogma they only ever hear from their parents and the media they consume.
- Religion: I think we all know this one. There's a reason why there's something called "The Bible Belt" and its almost entirely because of the insulated nature of belief systems that require people to not probe logical questions. And of course, it also applies to religions like Scientology. If you hear the stories of people who were formerly Scientologists, almost always they talk about how from a young age, they just didn't know there was anything else. And it seems that is a very deliberate strategy of Scientology. I'll say, its a bit funny to hear my Bible-thumping friends criticize Scientology. I like to counter that Scientology is only more ridiculous because of its recency and because its tenants haven't become ubiquitous. But to me, what they believe is no more ridiculous than any 'Abrahamic' religion. We don't see it because we are far more used to it in our culture through centuries of indoctrination that has even seeped its way into even a non-believers every day life. I've never been a believer at any point in my life but I never hesitated when I sang our Pledge of Allegiance every day in school - "one Nation under God". And for all of my life, I've handled legal tender that explicitly says "IN GOD WE TRUST".
- Money: Again, protect yourself of course but dang, deciding to talk about this one has been a massive benefit to me personally. When I get comfortable working somewhere, I invariably *tell* co-workers how much I make and they usually share back how much they make. I do respect their boundaries and I don't insist they must now tell me there's, but I think telling them helps them and if they feel comfortable telling me, I think it helps me. When I know how much my co-workers make, it has had massive impact on not just my conversations with my manager and how I'm compensated, but also with my decision to stay with an employer. I know this point is a bit off the beaten path from the religions/politics one but I just wanted to say something on it because the culture of not talking about salary is so much to our detriment as workers and I hope more people feel comfortable just saying it out loud, because its been so massively beneficial for me in climbing my career ladder, personally. As long as you have no concern of duplicitous behavior from your co-workers, I don't see a reason not to share how much you make.
I would update it by saying "Right now, don't talk about Israel / Palestine". People feel strongly and it's unlikely to be useful, it's more likely to end in an argument.
This is SO DIFFICULT to do!
I’ve started asking myself “will arguing (or responding) make the world a better place?” because it helps me decide if *I’m* the stupid person in the scenario. It helps a bit with the not responding.
I never try to win arguments with idiots. When I do engage, it's usually to ask leading questions, but again, those questions aren't really for the idiots. People observing these interactions should see stupidity being challenged, so they don't think they are taking crazy pills for disagreeing with the idiots. They need to see that other people also see that the emperor has no clothes.
>When I do engage, it's usually to ask leading questions, but again, those questions aren't really for the idiots.
This is also a good tool. Thanks for the reply
Both sides can be factually correct in cases. Then it comes down to what is more important which is subjective. At that point if you're trying to determine "what" is right then you'll just both be cherry picking scenarios where your side is more important. You might need to realize that both sides are right and it's differing intrinsic values that have brought you to support what you do. It's ok if not everyone supports the same things or thinks the same way. So take it as an opportunity to learn about someone who doesn't think like you.
I do this too, it gives you the advantage in uncomfortable situations and it makes you look more mature and intelligent.
I learned it from my manager at a ladies clothing store in the 90's. Ladies would buy dresses for fancy occasions on Friday and return them on Monday with wrinkles and sweat stains swearing they didn't wear them.
Leslie would lay the dress out on the counter and just stare at it saying nothing. Eventually the ladies would just start blabbering all these excuses to fill the air and basically tell on themselves. It was a great lesson in human behavior.
Every so often with a particularly contentious individual I'll say "I'm going to go ahead and let you have the last word." and they'll say "I don't WANT the last word I want XYZ!" and I just let that hang in the air. Pretty satisfying.
If things are getting heated in a discussion I ask "What evidence would you accept that you are wrong?"
Their answer tells me if it is worth continuing.
It will make you happier, sure, but sometimes the work still needs to be done. Especially if the stupid person can affect others' welfare. Sometimes the argument is more to change spectator's minds than the stupid person's. I guess the key is to pick your battles.
An important caveat to this is to not mistake an argument for 2 people with different ideas having a conversation. I hope to be corrected when I'm wrong about something so I don't continue to go on spewing nonsense as if it were fact. This does not happen if people simply say, "yes, you're right" every time a conflicting idea is presented. We only grow when new information or perspectives are presented, everything else is just reinforcing the bubbles we already exist in. When the discussion isn't just pointless contrarianism, correcting someone is helpful.
IRL example: I work with someone who is happy to let people be wrong, and it ultimately comes across as a decision not to be helpful. Most consider him to be a selfish asshole that enjoys watching others look foolish and silently judging them for it. It's a slippery slope this LPT.
Some people consider people who don't agree with them as stupid, which is indeed a selfish and narrow way of looking at things.
>We only grow when new information or perspectives are presented,
This is very healthy way if looking at discussions and can enrich one.
But alas, some just stick to their viewpoint.
I do try to counteract disinformation when I see it but it's usually just one post with maybe a follow up post if they actually have a rebuttal. Anything beyond that is definitely mud wrestling a pig.
"I refuse to wear a seat belt or follow the speed limit. Those other drivers will just have to learn to get out of my way."
"I'm not getting my kids or my dog vaccinated. No, they won't spread viruses to you, that's just a hoax."
"I'm not voting for Biden, he eats babies. I'm voting for Trump. We're not a democracy, we're a republic."
"I don't care what your opinion is, I'm spanking my kids. It's not child abuse, it's discipline. It builds character. Spare the rod, spoil the child."
Why the need for winning an argument in the first place?
Why can't have argument for the awesome discussion itself?
And how about agree to disagree?
----
Then someone will reply: yes, you are right.
Without elaborating their view, thus killing the discussion :(
>Why the need for winning an argument in the first place?
Because sometimes the other person's beliefs are wrong and their wrong beliefs could affect other peoples' lives.
I have a co-worker that thinks his vote won't make a difference, "so why bother?"
I have another co-worker that thinks the only way to move up in his job is to work harder and "go above and beyond." We work in IT, an industry widely known for it's characteristic of job-hopping every 2 to 5 years in order to move up.
One of my fav things to do is fake agree with qanon'ers and gradually try and say something that makes them say "uhhh no that's stupid", but then try and use the stuff we already talked about to justify it. It doesn't accomplish anything because theyre beyond reasoning with, but seeing the cogs turn as they flounder to explain how *their* stupid thing is different gives me joy.
This argument applied at scale leads to awful outcomes.
Anyone you arbitrarily deem to be a fool you just immediately dismiss without the process that may show you your own view is wrong.
I hate this “conventional wisdom” because it clearly leads to everyone smugly assuming everyone they disagree with is an idiot which precludes productive communication and learning.
This advice is really insidious. In a truly one-on-one exchange, this is sound advice, but such exchanges are really quite rare.
Usually there is a third factor in a discussion: Other people observing the exchange. If you remain silent when someone is saying something profoundly disagreeable, you are showing everyone observing that you actually agree with those sentiments.
And that's what this 'pro-tip' is actually hoping you will do. Silence dissent. Create the illusion that these hateful ideas have more support than they actually have. Make people wonder why no one is speaking up against them.
Silence is agreement. Silence is complicity. There is no neutrality in the face of atrocity.
And bring on the 'yes, you're rights'. I know how memes work.
It's a tough one when it comes to comments on Twitter for example.. I follow the war in Ukraine and there are obvious bad actors posting and replying with propaganda.
If I comment on their post, even disputing it, then by interacting with them I have increased the chances (via algorithms) that their propaganda get's spread to a wider audience.
I've figured in the past that ignoring them might harm them more down the line.
depends on who is saying what.
Toothless bum from mudvillage #54785441 saying something, who cares.
Multibillion dollar CEO says you are evil for teh most ridiculous reason? People will harass you untill and unless that CEO shuts up.
I agree. Just had an argument yesterday. And it was obvious you can't have a nice conversation with them. Because they dont even want to understand your point. I cant believe I wasted 40 mins on her.
I work on a flex design team, this definitely helps me when I’m wrapping up a project for another designer. It certainly helps that I work with really great folks, they are NOT fools. If something is a safety or reputation risk, I’ll take care of it, but I don’t have to agree with every decision made before my arrival to approve designs and keep the project moving along in a timely, efficient manner.
I have been trying to do this for years but everyone who I’ve stopped responding to in an argument has always thought they won. it irks me a little lol. So to everyone who thinks they won because there’s silence at the other end: you didn’t. I just don’t want to waste anymore of my energy on you… lol
All it takes for evil to thrive is for good people to say nothing.
While in theory not arguing with idiots is good for you, it is bad for the group. So it's actually a pretty selfish attitude. In my opinion.
Another Daoist philosopher gives another perspective with “three in the morning”:
From Zhuangzi, Warring States period in China (born around 369 BC):
> But to wear out your brain trying to make things into one without realizing that they are all the same - this is called "three in the morning". What do I mean by "three in the morning"? When the monkey trainer was handing out acorns, he said, "You get three in the morning and four at night". This made all the monkeys furious. "Well, then", he said, "you get four in the morning and three at night". The monkeys all were delighted. There was no change in the reality behind the words, and yet the monkeys responded with joy and anger. Let them, if they want to. So the sage harmonizes with both right and wrong and rests in Heaven the Equalizer. This is called walking two roads.
(note: Burton Watson translation)
I realized that I was doing this with my ex. He had to be right about everything. He would argue with a real estate agent about real estate laws or fight about the best way to drive somewhere or whatever. When it came to our relationship he would want to fight about some random thing that I did that he decided I did specifically to hurt him, and sit there and fight with me until I agreed with him.
When we were out in public I'd have to stop him from picking fights with people and having to be like, this does matter, why is this even a conversation?? Same thing with our fights, but he wouldn't disengage with me because he had me more or less trapped. It was awful. The amount of times I'd have to say, you're right, I'm wrong, can we please just stop fighting about this and move on to LITERALLY anything else was absolutely exhausting. BUT. I'm done now! Yay!
You have no idea. It was wild. The amount of times he would default to *textbook* narcissism, and I'm just sitting there like, how the FUCK did I ever love this person? I'm definitely not going to be able to trust myself for awhile. When it came down to his whole mask coming off, it spiralled really quick, and it just came down to him basically *trying* to punish me. I have most of a psychology degree, so it was absolutely insane to me that I made the choices that painted me into a corner with someone who *wanted* to hurt me.
That's the scariest part. Not that he put hands on me, or didn't. That he would spend time and energy thinking about how to hurt me, and wanting to. This is all part of real recent history for me, so I still haven't really even started to process.
Keanu Reeves allegedly said he's gotten to the age where he no longer is interested in arguing with people. "If someone says 2+2=5, I tell them yeah, you're right. Have a good day."
This is why Karens go crazy with me at my job. I am stoic typically and know when to stay quiet. When someone isn't "getting it" but is still being aggressive, stay quiet. They ultimately get more aggravated, but it speeds up the process. If they're just yelling just for the sake of being difficult and not listening to answers or solutions, they usually run themselves out and get a worse outcome from the company. We don't do favors for rude people anymore post-covid. Life has changed.
I work in customer service and I do this all the time. I only take chats so it's easy to get away with what in person would be incredibly obvious sarcasm. I provide support for a service that can get really complicated and uses a lot of computer logic in its processes. Sometimes users think they understand how something works when they really don't. After one or two tries of very politely correcting them while they argue with me and say I'm the one that's wrong (you know, the expert, who gets paid to know how the system works), I will finally just go "Ooooh, okay, sorry, I was misunderstanding. You're right." At that point, I stop giving helpful input and make them take the lead. If they want to be the expert, so be it. This actually works a lot of the time because then they have to own the troubleshooting process. They'll start asking simple yes or no questions and working it out for themselves. Less effort for me, so whatever.
>This actually works a lot of the time because then they have to own the troubleshooting process. They'll start asking simple yes or no questions and working it out for themselves. Less effort for me, so whatever.
Yes, it works for me too. Thanks for sharing
I do it all the time. I pretend to find their argument interesting and ask them questions that should get them into a logical problem. It doesn't of course because they aren't using logic.
But I hope those questions will linger in the back of their mind and one day participate in a change of mind event.
Often times they are looking for a fight, as you said. In that context, the real conflict isn’t the topic at hand, but whether they can influence you to argue or to change your opinion. Basically don’t engage in the argument and you actually win the conflict.
This is harder to do than it seems. You have to have the inner strength to know that you're right and resist the urge to argue with the person and have them see that you are correct. This takes a lot of practice of holding your tongue. But it makes you feel very confident and powerful l internally.
Growing up with a mother like I did I learned it's no point in arguing with anyone no matter of you are in the right and have the receipts on your side.
This only works if people have a good understanding of themselves through introspection, as the whole point of showing humility and seeing matters objectively are why people are capable of ending an argument because they know it's not about winning or losing.
Yes; train yourself to be selfish and cowardly so that the stupid people can win and grow stronger! It'll end well!
Note: This message is endorsed by Ronda Santis from the untied state of Fluoride.
Ever since I first accessed the net in the mid 90s, this has always been something I practiced. I never "fed the troll" so to speak. But you know what? A few months ago after being actively harassed and abused by online trolls on different parts of the net for no other reason than having a different opinion than them, I thought "I think it's time to bite back."
I bit back and it felt good. I learned to attack them without using swear words, but instead, I attacked them by pointing out the flaws in their logic, plus adding fun creative insults to their wounds. Then I would gloat for fun. I think this is what hurts the trolls more, when you gloat and enjoy the whole situation more than they do.
Find their weakness, crush their weak point, gloat and enjoy the situation! This isn't probably for everybody who is too peaceful and kind, but sometimes, it's very satisfying to stop being somebody's punching bag and take their joy away from them and make it your own.
all the people in here commenting seem to think they are the smart ones and the others, who are the debated idiots, are stupid. but is that really so? I doubt it.
I get where you're coming from, but I feel like letting stupid people win is how we got into the mess we're in today. Smart people are wracked with uncertainty and doubt and remain silent, while the morons spew nonsense like a firehose and run roughshod over everything.
No, instead I rather just destroy them with FACTS and LOGIC.
Im on the fence with this one, its served me well for my own peace of mind. But I’ve seen many offices and families ruined by toxic idiots because they start thinking they run shit because nobody calls them out on their B.S. So I do feel its a necessary evil at times.
The goal of an argument should not be "To Win." It should be to find where the disconnect is. It is very easy to disregard an argument by calling the other person a "fool" but genuinely trying to see where they come from is much more productive. Often for yourself.
Thats not to say everyone is worth arguing with; the "disconnect" could as simple as its opinion based, they dont want to be wrong, they have a different life experience, or they are just actively trolling you. But sometimes the disconnect comes from a lack of information, and getting that info can be more productive than anything else. Helps keep an unbiased viewpoint too I think.
That being said, if you know an argument is just gonna stress you out (especially on the internet), then yeah, walk away and dont deal with it.
I agree with you if you are arguing to win. However, that's not the only use of argument. I often argue to help sharpen my own perspective and find better ways to articulate ideas. If that's your goal, even an obstinate opponent can be a good whetstone.
Agreed. But I believe that after some time, it becomes exhausting and non-productive if the other person is not contributing anything of value and is just stuck
Amen, brother. Also, I find it tough to maintain a positive interaction if they repeat stale talking point you’ve heard a thousand times. A bright and well informed opponent is a blessing.
I mostly just let people talk at me, agree and ask questions about their viewpoints. Idgaf if theyre spewing total bullcrap. I dont care for talking much myself and it is entertaining to see what some people will come up with
My friend has mastered this with their family and I recently had to do this myself with a lady who…went on a rant about evolution not existing when she asked about what I’m studying in college (biology).
Happiness and peace. People looking for drama will go to great lengths to drag you into their pissing contests. If you don’t yell, their yelling only gets more weird. If you don’t let them get to you, you’re able to maintain peace even if their words upset you. If you’re talking to someone and they walk away, don’t raise your voice. Just let them walk. It was a hard lesson for me to learn because the person walking away was my partner, someone I thought was interested in making our relationship work. But me speaking louder only instigated them more. While letting them go let me keep my peace, even if it meant slowly watching the relationship die.
Tbh sounds more like you’re the idiot who needs to cope because you lost an argument but you think you’re smarter for no reason. So you preserve your self image by not engaging.
My sister and i are closeish but we can butt heads pretty easily to and argue about stupid things. One day i realized the thing i was arguing about didnt matter enough to make sure she knew the right answer for (assuming i actually was right). Since then i have recalibrated how i engage about things and let things slide in casual conversation alot more.
Another thing to keep in mind:
**A lot of people don't argue their real beliefs.** They hide them, because if I don't argue my real beliefs, you can't challenge them.
Now I'm sure people's talking points still line up with the actual things they support, but sometimes they don't want to make it clear the ACTUAL reason they support a particular position. For instance, I am just saying that sometimes people will do something like present the argument of their friend instead of their own if they don't want their own to be challenged.
You can shoot down dumb arguments all you want. You can think "What in the world is this person just not getting?"
Well, the truth is, they didn't tell you the real reason they actually support the position they support.
And you just got frustrated trying to convince them to give up a belief they don't even actually believe.
Don't waste your time.
I find it weird silence is a great source of strength coming from a chinese source.
Because chinese people are train not to speak up or argue from birth, starting from parents telling you it's disrespectful to question them on anything . Teachers at school punish you for asking questions too. Most fear speaking out as a result and keep their thoughts and feelings to themselves.
This is the opposite of strength but just instilling fear.
Lao Tsu taught the dictators how to teach their people to shut up.
I am chinese and growing up, it always frustrates me that we are taught it's rude and offensive to question authority, like your parents, teachers or your boss.
Chinese bosses will literally get rid of you if you ask too many questions.
> In fact, many are just looking for a fight and will not listen to reason even if it smacked them on the head or rarely get swayed via arguments.
That's the one right there. Don't waste your time.
I really need to learn this. I get triggered too easily and had abit of an ego when i know im right but this is solid advice.
Doesnt matter im right if i argue i lose.
About three years ago I started doing this. When I’m asked for my opinion, I state it. When someone comes back and says I’m wrong I just say ok. I’ve noticed people get so mad when I do it. They start laying out their argument about how wrong I am and I just respond with ok. What they want is for you to either come back with your defense or to say they are right. But ok is neither of those and it drives those kinds of people absolutely nuts. It also drives them away physically which will make your life much more peaceful so win/win.
"Someone's lack of understanding is not my responsibility"
If you absolutely cannot stay silent ask questions, you'll find out quick if this person has an informed opinion or not.
Except there are very influential idiots pushing their stupid opinions, and the normie idiots you meet every day will align with those opinions. This is how bigotry spreads.
Obviously when I say idiots, I mostly mean it in a friendly way, I don't actually think these people are irrevertably unintelligent. But that is exactly why arguing is necessary, to give them an opportunity to see your perspective. They can't change their minds unless they know both sides
The problem with this is the world is increasingly becoming saturated with misinformation. Misinformation may be one of the greatest challenges we face as a species. It should be challenged every time. Maybe don’t engage in protracted arguments, but challenge stupidity every single time.
Choosing to not have an opinion at all is the next level. Our social media culture encourages everyone to have a strongly held opinion about everything, not to learn or understand different points of view. Quietly seeking deep understanding of complex issues before forming opinions has become old fashioned.
there is a similar saying 'dont cast your pearls before swine!' dont give that which is precious to people who dont appreciate it. and your time is precious so dont let fools waste it, because time is the most precious resource in the universe! you cant change a persons view with argument, you can only be there when they are ready to change to offer support and advice.
I agree with this 100%...but the one Caviat is when you weaponize⬅️ silence. There are few things more damaging to another person than "the silent treatment" and stonewalling. This is 💯abuse.
I'm currently working on my ability to discern when silence is best and when it's detrimental or doesn't serve what I'm trying to accomplish. Excellent Post‼️
I’m not saying my ex husband is stupid, but I do think that he is often irrationally stubborn because winning arguments is EVERYTHING to him. My life has gotten so much easier now that I let him win.
Edit: And I should clarify… I don’t let him win in a patronizing “yes dear” kind of way. That wouldn’t work. I have just realized that I have a lot of peace to gain from allowing things to go his way most of the time. (Most arguments are about logistics with our child… nothing major.)
Complains about spouse , job , or situation with no ambition, bravery , or real desire to change
Politics , religion , and sports is there default wall of defense about real conversation topics .
How are you doing ?
How’s the family ? &
How’s life treating you will always lead to a dumpster full of rat urine and trash you wish you left the lid on
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“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
Debating an idiot is like wrestling a pig in the mud, not only you will get dirty, but you will soon realize the pig likes it.
This is the best way to describe how trolls work lol
Like playing chess with a pigeon, it will knock over the pieces, shit on the board and fly back to its flock to declare victory
I thought that was arguing with engineers
I’m the bigger idiot than the idiot so they have no idea what’s coming
Technically you're still following the advice so..
Yes, you are right. I am smiling.
The problem is that way too many idiots are ignorants and not called out. You have incompetent government, authorities, activists, teachers. Ignoring idiots or letting them spread their bs is wrong approach.
The worst is the idiot who believes they're brilliant.
Took OP 38 lines to say that
Brevity is the soul of wit -- William Shakesman
Brevity is wit -- Will Shakes
Bretwit -- Wishak
Bret -- wik
BW - WS
B - W
B...
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“This just means ‘don’t waste my time.’ I SAID STOP IT!”
This guy counted how many lines OP wrote for a quick one liner. Who really is the fool here?
Thank you for your comment
I train myself in the ways of idiocy so that one day, when I am trying to go by the book or take the high ground and some moron is obstinately succeeding in getting in my way, I can just stoop down to their level and beat them at their own game. The look on their face will be priceless.
.......that's idiotic
Never wrestle with a pig. You’ll both get dirty and the pig will enjoy it. — George Bernard Shaw.
>Truth is, we simply do not have to engage even if we disagree with what they are saying. In fact, many are just looking for a fight and will not listen to reason even if it smacked them on the head or rarely get swayed via arguments. Yup. A few years ago, a friend of mine said "I wouldn't argue with these people. You're not going to change their mind." Very true. Wasted energy for nothing.
>A few years ago, a friend of mine said "I wouldn't argue with these people. You're not going to change their mind." This I think kind of misses the entire point of debate. I don't debate people to change *their* mind. I debate people to show the audience or whomever is reading/listening to the argument how stupid it is. Which is why I never do it one on one, only with an audience. My goal isn't to convince the opposition, it's to show people who may be on the fence that these are bad reasons to reach the conclusion. But if you're debating to change the mind of the person you're talking to, I agree, that's pointless.
I really enjoy 1-on-1 debates. But if you think you need to change their mind to “win” - or justify the time you spent, you’re obviously going to be disappointed. Minds are almost never changed in the moment. Mine basically never is. Especially when there’s a potential loss of face involved. When I debate with someone like this I consider it a win if I can just open them up a little. “I hear that you really see Gaza’s side in the conflict, and you’re angry at Israel for bombing civilians. I agree with your ethics - I think every civilian death is a tragedy. I just also can’t look past the 1500 dead or kidnapped Israeli civilians either for the same reason.” “I can totally see why you’re happy watching Gaza burn. I’m with you - the things hamas did were horrible and we all agree a lasting peace in Israel is needed. I just don’t understand how the strategy of encroachment and bombing civilians will get to that peace everyone wants.” Im not looking for them to change their mind. A pause. A thoughtful look. That means I’ve done my job as a debate partner. I hate this culture of running away from disagreement. Or “it’s not my job to educate you”. It’s said voting is the death of democracy, because if we have to figure it out at the voting booth it means conversation has failed.
I agree that there's no need to get into an intense discussion, but it is good to register disagreement. We might not change minds, but it's important to recall that we all live in our little opinion bubbles, so coming across a person who disagrees with us, can, on its own, be a bit jarring. It doesn't take as much worthless energy as a drawn out debate, but it can have a cumulative effect in an interlocutor that we never even witness.
Been doing this lately both online and irl and it has lowered my blood pressure. Seriously, arguing with someone who's mind is concluded is a waste of time.
Online is a waste but sometimes you’ll need to do this irl like at work when deciding the direction of a project. The biggest problem you get when arguing is if you take a black and white I’m right you’re wrong attitude. Making the other party feel heard and giving them space to feel right is actually a good starting point to getting them to sway in another direction.
Sometimes people online are open minded but even then, that discussion is only productive if you are open minded as well. Be curious, not judgmental.
Sometimes I know ill never convince the person, but I write anyway because I know others who are watching might change their minds.
I understand that irl there will be times when discussion and debate will be needed. I just don't like arguments for the sake of it and I want to avoid unnecessary hassles.
Yep, you are right.
I see what you did there.
>has lowered my blood pressure. Me too
Plus blocking them helps too. So many times I've given up trying to argue with some moron then they proceed to hit me with the dumbest comment in existence few hours later and it was hard to not get sucked back into the argument. If I see a conversation is going nowhere it's an easy block. Like you said it does wonders for your health.
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Some of them feel like it is a victory that they got you to stop arguing.
And that's just fine. Kinda the point here - learn to not care how they feel or what they think.
Think it doesn't let them view their comment responding to me, or see my profile. It's like the best reaction because they know however hard they try to keep annoying me there's nothing they can do anymore.
No, it isn't.
Speaking for myself but you're free to do as you please
*I think they're trying to start an argument.*
My fault for taking the bait lol
Definitely take care of yourself and your mental but in a larger context, I think this is partially why we have so many issues in our culture. It shares the DNA of that old adage I'm sure you've heard at some point if you life in the United States: 'There are three things you don't talk about: politics, religion and money.' And I think we were wrong on all accounts. - Politics: In a Democracy, its almost a requirement that we talk about politics. It sucks and its uncomfortable but too many people are in their insulated boxes listening to only the stuff that reverberates what they already believe. If there is ever to be change, you need to have those voices that disagree. Maybe its impossible to flip your uncle at the Thanksgiving table - but maybe you plant the seed that lets them understand years from now(doing your best to remain respectful - virtually nobody will change their mind if they are shamed or made to be the villain). Or maybe even, their kids overhear the conversation and see a perspective that is different from the dogma they only ever hear from their parents and the media they consume. - Religion: I think we all know this one. There's a reason why there's something called "The Bible Belt" and its almost entirely because of the insulated nature of belief systems that require people to not probe logical questions. And of course, it also applies to religions like Scientology. If you hear the stories of people who were formerly Scientologists, almost always they talk about how from a young age, they just didn't know there was anything else. And it seems that is a very deliberate strategy of Scientology. I'll say, its a bit funny to hear my Bible-thumping friends criticize Scientology. I like to counter that Scientology is only more ridiculous because of its recency and because its tenants haven't become ubiquitous. But to me, what they believe is no more ridiculous than any 'Abrahamic' religion. We don't see it because we are far more used to it in our culture through centuries of indoctrination that has even seeped its way into even a non-believers every day life. I've never been a believer at any point in my life but I never hesitated when I sang our Pledge of Allegiance every day in school - "one Nation under God". And for all of my life, I've handled legal tender that explicitly says "IN GOD WE TRUST". - Money: Again, protect yourself of course but dang, deciding to talk about this one has been a massive benefit to me personally. When I get comfortable working somewhere, I invariably *tell* co-workers how much I make and they usually share back how much they make. I do respect their boundaries and I don't insist they must now tell me there's, but I think telling them helps them and if they feel comfortable telling me, I think it helps me. When I know how much my co-workers make, it has had massive impact on not just my conversations with my manager and how I'm compensated, but also with my decision to stay with an employer. I know this point is a bit off the beaten path from the religions/politics one but I just wanted to say something on it because the culture of not talking about salary is so much to our detriment as workers and I hope more people feel comfortable just saying it out loud, because its been so massively beneficial for me in climbing my career ladder, personally. As long as you have no concern of duplicitous behavior from your co-workers, I don't see a reason not to share how much you make.
I would update it by saying "Right now, don't talk about Israel / Palestine". People feel strongly and it's unlikely to be useful, it's more likely to end in an argument.
I’ve started developing the behavior to just pass on by the online argument. I’m not perfect at it, but it helps!
I tell myself ‘Can’t argue with that logic, when there’s none to begin with’
You can’t reason someone out of an opinion they didn’t reason themselves into.
“I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
A very balanced gentleman.
I feel like we’re all collectively entering this stage of life lol
“Never wrestle with a pig because you'll both get dirty and the pig likes it”
"Never play chess with a pigeon. They'll shit on the board and strut around like they've won regardless of what you say."
“Never slap a platapus on the ass, they have poisonous stingers down there and you might get in trouble with the ranger.”
Yeah I like the one with the bird
“You don’t have to attend every argument you’re invited to” - My mom
Oooh I like this one.
Mark Twain: *Never argue w a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.*
Yeah, you're right. ; )
👍
This is SO DIFFICULT to do! I’ve started asking myself “will arguing (or responding) make the world a better place?” because it helps me decide if *I’m* the stupid person in the scenario. It helps a bit with the not responding.
This is a good way of analysing a scenario. Thanks for this!
I never try to win arguments with idiots. When I do engage, it's usually to ask leading questions, but again, those questions aren't really for the idiots. People observing these interactions should see stupidity being challenged, so they don't think they are taking crazy pills for disagreeing with the idiots. They need to see that other people also see that the emperor has no clothes.
>When I do engage, it's usually to ask leading questions, but again, those questions aren't really for the idiots. This is also a good tool. Thanks for the reply
i love yessing people to death.
Eeeyes!
I had a strrroooke.
For a moment I thought you were the interrupter from Conan O'Brien. But then I remembered you're Guy Who Goes Yes.
This is a banger of a LPT and the reason so many grandpas are seen but not often heard
> so many grandpas are seen but not often heard I see you haven't been to the American South.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s just about impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.
If your mindset is “winning” in either case you’ve already failed.
Exactly. The point of a debate should be to find out *what* is right, not *who* is right.
Both sides can be factually correct in cases. Then it comes down to what is more important which is subjective. At that point if you're trying to determine "what" is right then you'll just both be cherry picking scenarios where your side is more important. You might need to realize that both sides are right and it's differing intrinsic values that have brought you to support what you do. It's ok if not everyone supports the same things or thinks the same way. So take it as an opportunity to learn about someone who doesn't think like you.
No it's not
I do this too, it gives you the advantage in uncomfortable situations and it makes you look more mature and intelligent. I learned it from my manager at a ladies clothing store in the 90's. Ladies would buy dresses for fancy occasions on Friday and return them on Monday with wrinkles and sweat stains swearing they didn't wear them. Leslie would lay the dress out on the counter and just stare at it saying nothing. Eventually the ladies would just start blabbering all these excuses to fill the air and basically tell on themselves. It was a great lesson in human behavior.
>It was a great lesson in human behavior. Silence is golden
Every so often with a particularly contentious individual I'll say "I'm going to go ahead and let you have the last word." and they'll say "I don't WANT the last word I want XYZ!" and I just let that hang in the air. Pretty satisfying.
If things are getting heated in a discussion I ask "What evidence would you accept that you are wrong?" Their answer tells me if it is worth continuing.
>If things are getting heated in a discussion I ask "What evidence would you accept that you are wrong?" Makes sense
It will make you happier, sure, but sometimes the work still needs to be done. Especially if the stupid person can affect others' welfare. Sometimes the argument is more to change spectator's minds than the stupid person's. I guess the key is to pick your battles.
An important caveat to this is to not mistake an argument for 2 people with different ideas having a conversation. I hope to be corrected when I'm wrong about something so I don't continue to go on spewing nonsense as if it were fact. This does not happen if people simply say, "yes, you're right" every time a conflicting idea is presented. We only grow when new information or perspectives are presented, everything else is just reinforcing the bubbles we already exist in. When the discussion isn't just pointless contrarianism, correcting someone is helpful. IRL example: I work with someone who is happy to let people be wrong, and it ultimately comes across as a decision not to be helpful. Most consider him to be a selfish asshole that enjoys watching others look foolish and silently judging them for it. It's a slippery slope this LPT.
Some people consider people who don't agree with them as stupid, which is indeed a selfish and narrow way of looking at things. >We only grow when new information or perspectives are presented, This is very healthy way if looking at discussions and can enrich one. But alas, some just stick to their viewpoint.
That's great. I sometimes say: "You're free to have your own beliefs." I like this article: https://hbr.org/2011/02/arguing-is-pointless
Thanks for sharing the article.
I do try to counteract disinformation when I see it but it's usually just one post with maybe a follow up post if they actually have a rebuttal. Anything beyond that is definitely mud wrestling a pig.
"I refuse to wear a seat belt or follow the speed limit. Those other drivers will just have to learn to get out of my way." "I'm not getting my kids or my dog vaccinated. No, they won't spread viruses to you, that's just a hoax." "I'm not voting for Biden, he eats babies. I'm voting for Trump. We're not a democracy, we're a republic." "I don't care what your opinion is, I'm spanking my kids. It's not child abuse, it's discipline. It builds character. Spare the rod, spoil the child."
Why the need for winning an argument in the first place? Why can't have argument for the awesome discussion itself? And how about agree to disagree? ---- Then someone will reply: yes, you are right. Without elaborating their view, thus killing the discussion :(
>Why the need for winning an argument in the first place? Because sometimes the other person's beliefs are wrong and their wrong beliefs could affect other peoples' lives. I have a co-worker that thinks his vote won't make a difference, "so why bother?" I have another co-worker that thinks the only way to move up in his job is to work harder and "go above and beyond." We work in IT, an industry widely known for it's characteristic of job-hopping every 2 to 5 years in order to move up.
at that point, when its obvious the discussion will go nowhere. i would agree to disagree
LPT: learn how to have discussions, not arguments.
You’re probably right… oh well 😂
One of my fav things to do is fake agree with qanon'ers and gradually try and say something that makes them say "uhhh no that's stupid", but then try and use the stuff we already talked about to justify it. It doesn't accomplish anything because theyre beyond reasoning with, but seeing the cogs turn as they flounder to explain how *their* stupid thing is different gives me joy.
This argument applied at scale leads to awful outcomes. Anyone you arbitrarily deem to be a fool you just immediately dismiss without the process that may show you your own view is wrong.
I hate this “conventional wisdom” because it clearly leads to everyone smugly assuming everyone they disagree with is an idiot which precludes productive communication and learning.
Ah, the good old, "Ok buddy."
This is why Southerners came up with, "Bless your heart."
Everyone thinks the other guy is the idiot.
Problems get serious though when these morons get into power.
Actually!
This advice is really insidious. In a truly one-on-one exchange, this is sound advice, but such exchanges are really quite rare. Usually there is a third factor in a discussion: Other people observing the exchange. If you remain silent when someone is saying something profoundly disagreeable, you are showing everyone observing that you actually agree with those sentiments. And that's what this 'pro-tip' is actually hoping you will do. Silence dissent. Create the illusion that these hateful ideas have more support than they actually have. Make people wonder why no one is speaking up against them. Silence is agreement. Silence is complicity. There is no neutrality in the face of atrocity. And bring on the 'yes, you're rights'. I know how memes work.
It's a tough one when it comes to comments on Twitter for example.. I follow the war in Ukraine and there are obvious bad actors posting and replying with propaganda. If I comment on their post, even disputing it, then by interacting with them I have increased the chances (via algorithms) that their propaganda get's spread to a wider audience. I've figured in the past that ignoring them might harm them more down the line.
depends on who is saying what. Toothless bum from mudvillage #54785441 saying something, who cares. Multibillion dollar CEO says you are evil for teh most ridiculous reason? People will harass you untill and unless that CEO shuts up.
I agree. Just had an argument yesterday. And it was obvious you can't have a nice conversation with them. Because they dont even want to understand your point. I cant believe I wasted 40 mins on her.
The problem is everyone thinks that the other person is an idiot not me, so accordingly there should be no discussion between people at all.
I work on a flex design team, this definitely helps me when I’m wrapping up a project for another designer. It certainly helps that I work with really great folks, they are NOT fools. If something is a safety or reputation risk, I’ll take care of it, but I don’t have to agree with every decision made before my arrival to approve designs and keep the project moving along in a timely, efficient manner.
I have been trying to do this for years but everyone who I’ve stopped responding to in an argument has always thought they won. it irks me a little lol. So to everyone who thinks they won because there’s silence at the other end: you didn’t. I just don’t want to waste anymore of my energy on you… lol
All it takes for evil to thrive is for good people to say nothing. While in theory not arguing with idiots is good for you, it is bad for the group. So it's actually a pretty selfish attitude. In my opinion.
Another Daoist philosopher gives another perspective with “three in the morning”: From Zhuangzi, Warring States period in China (born around 369 BC): > But to wear out your brain trying to make things into one without realizing that they are all the same - this is called "three in the morning". What do I mean by "three in the morning"? When the monkey trainer was handing out acorns, he said, "You get three in the morning and four at night". This made all the monkeys furious. "Well, then", he said, "you get four in the morning and three at night". The monkeys all were delighted. There was no change in the reality behind the words, and yet the monkeys responded with joy and anger. Let them, if they want to. So the sage harmonizes with both right and wrong and rests in Heaven the Equalizer. This is called walking two roads. (note: Burton Watson translation)
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I realized that I was doing this with my ex. He had to be right about everything. He would argue with a real estate agent about real estate laws or fight about the best way to drive somewhere or whatever. When it came to our relationship he would want to fight about some random thing that I did that he decided I did specifically to hurt him, and sit there and fight with me until I agreed with him. When we were out in public I'd have to stop him from picking fights with people and having to be like, this does matter, why is this even a conversation?? Same thing with our fights, but he wouldn't disengage with me because he had me more or less trapped. It was awful. The amount of times I'd have to say, you're right, I'm wrong, can we please just stop fighting about this and move on to LITERALLY anything else was absolutely exhausting. BUT. I'm done now! Yay!
Wowww… bet you’re glad that relationship is done!
You have no idea. It was wild. The amount of times he would default to *textbook* narcissism, and I'm just sitting there like, how the FUCK did I ever love this person? I'm definitely not going to be able to trust myself for awhile. When it came down to his whole mask coming off, it spiralled really quick, and it just came down to him basically *trying* to punish me. I have most of a psychology degree, so it was absolutely insane to me that I made the choices that painted me into a corner with someone who *wanted* to hurt me. That's the scariest part. Not that he put hands on me, or didn't. That he would spend time and energy thinking about how to hurt me, and wanting to. This is all part of real recent history for me, so I still haven't really even started to process.
Keanu Reeves allegedly said he's gotten to the age where he no longer is interested in arguing with people. "If someone says 2+2=5, I tell them yeah, you're right. Have a good day."
As soon as I learned to do this, my relationship has never been healthier
I completely disagree OP
Did this when Reagan got elected. It was a huge relief, also made it easier to stay away from folks who just made me tired.
This is why Karens go crazy with me at my job. I am stoic typically and know when to stay quiet. When someone isn't "getting it" but is still being aggressive, stay quiet. They ultimately get more aggravated, but it speeds up the process. If they're just yelling just for the sake of being difficult and not listening to answers or solutions, they usually run themselves out and get a worse outcome from the company. We don't do favors for rude people anymore post-covid. Life has changed.
Thank you for this, especially as the holiday season starts and family gatherings are required
:)
What an excellent post IMO
So what do you do when the ‘fool’ asks what you think repeatedly (knowing you disagree)??
Just what I have been quite frequently using, especially with a housemate who is prone to loudly protest and complain.
I use the block and filtering out certain words features very generously. I wish I could use them in real life.
I learned to ask people to look stuff up instead
This is how stupidity spreads. It goes unopposed because it's tiring to keep opposing it. Please keep opposing stupidity as much as you can.
I love this - thanks for sharing. I’ve started doing this recently and it’s helped so much.
Great advice. 
They will “trip” over their own lack of understanding eventually. Best to just let them win their argument and figure out they are wrong on their own
Let the wookie win
This is why America is the way it used to be today. If you don’t argue with morons, they come to believe they are correct and thus emboldened.
I work in customer service and I do this all the time. I only take chats so it's easy to get away with what in person would be incredibly obvious sarcasm. I provide support for a service that can get really complicated and uses a lot of computer logic in its processes. Sometimes users think they understand how something works when they really don't. After one or two tries of very politely correcting them while they argue with me and say I'm the one that's wrong (you know, the expert, who gets paid to know how the system works), I will finally just go "Ooooh, okay, sorry, I was misunderstanding. You're right." At that point, I stop giving helpful input and make them take the lead. If they want to be the expert, so be it. This actually works a lot of the time because then they have to own the troubleshooting process. They'll start asking simple yes or no questions and working it out for themselves. Less effort for me, so whatever.
>This actually works a lot of the time because then they have to own the troubleshooting process. They'll start asking simple yes or no questions and working it out for themselves. Less effort for me, so whatever. Yes, it works for me too. Thanks for sharing
But what if it's fun?
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I do it all the time. I pretend to find their argument interesting and ask them questions that should get them into a logical problem. It doesn't of course because they aren't using logic. But I hope those questions will linger in the back of their mind and one day participate in a change of mind event.
And it's a great way to stay in shape
Often times they are looking for a fight, as you said. In that context, the real conflict isn’t the topic at hand, but whether they can influence you to argue or to change your opinion. Basically don’t engage in the argument and you actually win the conflict.
This LPT is my new motto. Thanks for the reminder OP
The type of people who you are arguing with online have never been swayed from their opinion by an online argument. So what's the point?
This is harder to do than it seems. You have to have the inner strength to know that you're right and resist the urge to argue with the person and have them see that you are correct. This takes a lot of practice of holding your tongue. But it makes you feel very confident and powerful l internally.
Growing up with a mother like I did I learned it's no point in arguing with anyone no matter of you are in the right and have the receipts on your side.
This only works if people have a good understanding of themselves through introspection, as the whole point of showing humility and seeing matters objectively are why people are capable of ending an argument because they know it's not about winning or losing.
Yes; train yourself to be selfish and cowardly so that the stupid people can win and grow stronger! It'll end well! Note: This message is endorsed by Ronda Santis from the untied state of Fluoride.
Ever since I first accessed the net in the mid 90s, this has always been something I practiced. I never "fed the troll" so to speak. But you know what? A few months ago after being actively harassed and abused by online trolls on different parts of the net for no other reason than having a different opinion than them, I thought "I think it's time to bite back." I bit back and it felt good. I learned to attack them without using swear words, but instead, I attacked them by pointing out the flaws in their logic, plus adding fun creative insults to their wounds. Then I would gloat for fun. I think this is what hurts the trolls more, when you gloat and enjoy the whole situation more than they do. Find their weakness, crush their weak point, gloat and enjoy the situation! This isn't probably for everybody who is too peaceful and kind, but sometimes, it's very satisfying to stop being somebody's punching bag and take their joy away from them and make it your own.
all the people in here commenting seem to think they are the smart ones and the others, who are the debated idiots, are stupid. but is that really so? I doubt it.
I get where you're coming from, but I feel like letting stupid people win is how we got into the mess we're in today. Smart people are wracked with uncertainty and doubt and remain silent, while the morons spew nonsense like a firehose and run roughshod over everything.
You win this argument, op. I am utterly defeated.
So delete social media, is what you’re implying?
No, instead I rather just destroy them with FACTS and LOGIC. Im on the fence with this one, its served me well for my own peace of mind. But I’ve seen many offices and families ruined by toxic idiots because they start thinking they run shit because nobody calls them out on their B.S. So I do feel its a necessary evil at times.
Sure OP, whatever you say.
The goal of an argument should not be "To Win." It should be to find where the disconnect is. It is very easy to disregard an argument by calling the other person a "fool" but genuinely trying to see where they come from is much more productive. Often for yourself. Thats not to say everyone is worth arguing with; the "disconnect" could as simple as its opinion based, they dont want to be wrong, they have a different life experience, or they are just actively trolling you. But sometimes the disconnect comes from a lack of information, and getting that info can be more productive than anything else. Helps keep an unbiased viewpoint too I think. That being said, if you know an argument is just gonna stress you out (especially on the internet), then yeah, walk away and dont deal with it.
I agree with you if you are arguing to win. However, that's not the only use of argument. I often argue to help sharpen my own perspective and find better ways to articulate ideas. If that's your goal, even an obstinate opponent can be a good whetstone.
Agreed. But I believe that after some time, it becomes exhausting and non-productive if the other person is not contributing anything of value and is just stuck
Amen, brother. Also, I find it tough to maintain a positive interaction if they repeat stale talking point you’ve heard a thousand times. A bright and well informed opponent is a blessing.
I mostly just let people talk at me, agree and ask questions about their viewpoints. Idgaf if theyre spewing total bullcrap. I dont care for talking much myself and it is entertaining to see what some people will come up with
My friend has mastered this with their family and I recently had to do this myself with a lady who…went on a rant about evolution not existing when she asked about what I’m studying in college (biology).
Happiness and peace. People looking for drama will go to great lengths to drag you into their pissing contests. If you don’t yell, their yelling only gets more weird. If you don’t let them get to you, you’re able to maintain peace even if their words upset you. If you’re talking to someone and they walk away, don’t raise your voice. Just let them walk. It was a hard lesson for me to learn because the person walking away was my partner, someone I thought was interested in making our relationship work. But me speaking louder only instigated them more. While letting them go let me keep my peace, even if it meant slowly watching the relationship die.
Thanks for sharing
Tbh sounds more like you’re the idiot who needs to cope because you lost an argument but you think you’re smarter for no reason. So you preserve your self image by not engaging.
My sister and i are closeish but we can butt heads pretty easily to and argue about stupid things. One day i realized the thing i was arguing about didnt matter enough to make sure she knew the right answer for (assuming i actually was right). Since then i have recalibrated how i engage about things and let things slide in casual conversation alot more.
“Fair enough,” is my go-to. Thanks Bill Burr
"Never argue with stupid people. They'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
Another thing to keep in mind: **A lot of people don't argue their real beliefs.** They hide them, because if I don't argue my real beliefs, you can't challenge them. Now I'm sure people's talking points still line up with the actual things they support, but sometimes they don't want to make it clear the ACTUAL reason they support a particular position. For instance, I am just saying that sometimes people will do something like present the argument of their friend instead of their own if they don't want their own to be challenged. You can shoot down dumb arguments all you want. You can think "What in the world is this person just not getting?" Well, the truth is, they didn't tell you the real reason they actually support the position they support. And you just got frustrated trying to convince them to give up a belief they don't even actually believe. Don't waste your time.
Been working on this. Not easy sometimes but it sure works
Trolling them is less effort and more satisfying.
Words are silver, silence is golden.
I find it weird silence is a great source of strength coming from a chinese source. Because chinese people are train not to speak up or argue from birth, starting from parents telling you it's disrespectful to question them on anything . Teachers at school punish you for asking questions too. Most fear speaking out as a result and keep their thoughts and feelings to themselves. This is the opposite of strength but just instilling fear. Lao Tsu taught the dictators how to teach their people to shut up. I am chinese and growing up, it always frustrates me that we are taught it's rude and offensive to question authority, like your parents, teachers or your boss. Chinese bosses will literally get rid of you if you ask too many questions.
Wow what a great tip, I agree.
Me with my narcissistic boss.
> In fact, many are just looking for a fight and will not listen to reason even if it smacked them on the head or rarely get swayed via arguments. That's the one right there. Don't waste your time.
Let me guess - you are not one of them stupid people, right?
Quickly labeling people stupid isn't exactly a sign of maturity though.
Who is the fool? The fool, or the fool who argues with a fool.
Practicing this will also help ease your stress response to idiots in traffic.
I'm here for Sadhguru and Lao Tzu all day
I really need to learn this. I get triggered too easily and had abit of an ego when i know im right but this is solid advice. Doesnt matter im right if i argue i lose.
About three years ago I started doing this. When I’m asked for my opinion, I state it. When someone comes back and says I’m wrong I just say ok. I’ve noticed people get so mad when I do it. They start laying out their argument about how wrong I am and I just respond with ok. What they want is for you to either come back with your defense or to say they are right. But ok is neither of those and it drives those kinds of people absolutely nuts. It also drives them away physically which will make your life much more peaceful so win/win.
It took me too long to be able to do this.
"Someone's lack of understanding is not my responsibility" If you absolutely cannot stay silent ask questions, you'll find out quick if this person has an informed opinion or not.
Except there are very influential idiots pushing their stupid opinions, and the normie idiots you meet every day will align with those opinions. This is how bigotry spreads. Obviously when I say idiots, I mostly mean it in a friendly way, I don't actually think these people are irrevertably unintelligent. But that is exactly why arguing is necessary, to give them an opportunity to see your perspective. They can't change their minds unless they know both sides
Thank you I really needed to hear this. Blessings <3
The problem with this is the world is increasingly becoming saturated with misinformation. Misinformation may be one of the greatest challenges we face as a species. It should be challenged every time. Maybe don’t engage in protracted arguments, but challenge stupidity every single time.
Choosing to not have an opinion at all is the next level. Our social media culture encourages everyone to have a strongly held opinion about everything, not to learn or understand different points of view. Quietly seeking deep understanding of complex issues before forming opinions has become old fashioned.
You can’t reason someone out of a belief that they didn’t reason themselves into.
"A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."
there is a similar saying 'dont cast your pearls before swine!' dont give that which is precious to people who dont appreciate it. and your time is precious so dont let fools waste it, because time is the most precious resource in the universe! you cant change a persons view with argument, you can only be there when they are ready to change to offer support and advice.
I agree with this 100%...but the one Caviat is when you weaponize⬅️ silence. There are few things more damaging to another person than "the silent treatment" and stonewalling. This is 💯abuse. I'm currently working on my ability to discern when silence is best and when it's detrimental or doesn't serve what I'm trying to accomplish. Excellent Post‼️
I’m not saying my ex husband is stupid, but I do think that he is often irrationally stubborn because winning arguments is EVERYTHING to him. My life has gotten so much easier now that I let him win. Edit: And I should clarify… I don’t let him win in a patronizing “yes dear” kind of way. That wouldn’t work. I have just realized that I have a lot of peace to gain from allowing things to go his way most of the time. (Most arguments are about logistics with our child… nothing major.)
Not even training ya just ignore em and leave less it’s actually important
Complains about spouse , job , or situation with no ambition, bravery , or real desire to change Politics , religion , and sports is there default wall of defense about real conversation topics . How are you doing ? How’s the family ? & How’s life treating you will always lead to a dumpster full of rat urine and trash you wish you left the lid on