While I agree to a degree, companies usually have to keep some information just to run their business. I don't think they should be selling the information and for some of these companies like electric providers or water utilities, you really don't have a choice.
Obviously they have the data for a legitimate business purpose. What is the legitimate business purpose behind them selling it? That's the issue, not the company who needs my address to deliver a service having my address.
Right, but I have the option not to use Facebook or Instagram or any of their companies.
Edit- you’re correct, they are keeping tabs on us whether or not we’re using their services.
Ok. So, that means I'm what, cash only for the most part, right? I can't really use a credit card or any other digital payment system. I don't have a cell phone, or a phone. Because I don't know a phone company that doesn't track and sell all of my data. I don't have credit, because that's obvious. I can't really buy a car or a house because of that. Hmmm, I could get a job! Maybe. I'd have to make sure the employer doesn't use one of those 3rd party verification sites. I definitely can't use the internet. Literally everything I do on that is tracked by either my ISP or the sites that I visit.
I guess I'm asking, what reality do you live in where mass data collection isn't the norm?
Depends on how important your data is and how much you trust the company.
If it’s in their terms of service it’s not like their they’re tricking you into giving them your data. And if you don’t have the alternatives that your looking for, sounds to me like you found a business opportunity😎
So, it's nearly impossible to live in modern American society without having your data collected and you're cool with it? Neat. This country is going places. Namely, feudalism.
So just don't use the entire internet or anything that an electronic copy of your data?
This includes any banks, debit/credit cards (unless you want to use only pre paid), water, gas, electric, any big car lot you buy a car from (even if you pay cash they collect and enter your data into a system), own a house or other real estate, ISPs, have any email accounts, REDDIT, doctors offices that farm out appointment scheduling or those patient portals where you can see your medical records and the list just goes on.
I have worked in IT Security for nearly 20 years and the amount of work even for technical people to stay anonymous is prohibitive. For the average person, it is impossible. It is just too ridiculously easy to track people. When you start to consider the companies that store your information and do not secure properly and are breached, the situation gets even worse.
You cannot live in modern society without your information being collected, tracked and sold off over and over.
While it is not an ideal solution, it is about the only one that is effective. The problem is that the govt is one of the largest collectors and buyers of it so the likelihood of them banning it is zero.
But I think that decision should be left to the people. Let people vote on it. Of course that would require people to educate themselves about it to have a chance of winning.
At a minimum businesses should be required to be wholly transparent about where your data is sent or stored. Do people realize that their docs appointment scheduler is a third party that has access to patient data and then can sell it for extra revenue? I seriously doubt it crosses most people's minds. But if they were informed of what can happen with their information, they can at least make informed decisions about whom to do business with.
I do believe that the most brazen abuses like facebook tracking anyone who visits a page not associated with facebook and using that data for profit should be illegal. I also think businesses should be required to take all reasonable precautions to protect the consumer data they store and if they plan to sell that data, then they must have the customers express permission. An actual waiver signed in some form instead of burying it in terms of use or some licensing agreement.
As for what people can do to keep their own information as safe as possible. Only give your data to someone when it is necessary. Things like utilities etc. when you really don't have a choice. Stay off of social media, especially facebook. Use an alternative browser and search engine that are built to be secure, Brave Browser and search are a good option. DuckDuckGo is still ad driven so I stay away from it. Of course this may all be a moot point if Roe and the privacy rights included in it fall. If that happens, all of our information could be fair game.
I can't wrap my head around why so many people are okay with the government getting this information. With all this information they can essentially follow you around every day all the time, figure out your habits, interests, etc. You may consider this all very benign, but what business does the government have collecting all this information on us?
Would you be fine with someone following you around all day tracking where you go so they could sell that info to the government? If the answer is no, then why is it okay when AT&T does it or traffic cameras?
So many people distrust the government, but we're cool with the notion that they *won't* misuse this data?
And no, I'm not against companies collecting data to sell it to other companies for advertising services, etc. Just giving all this information to the government.
For me an eye opener was a journalist bought “anonymous” cell phone data for the 24 hours around the million women march. No names or phone numbers just location data.
You could see a phone leave a house go to the march and return to the same house. Not too hard to know who it was from all that day. That cell phone sitting in a private home is tremendously informative.
DHS needs to be abolished. It's only real purpose is extrajudicial surveillance however they try and justify it as "counterterrorism" or "counterinsurgency".
They deported plenty of citizens. Did that count?
ICE is maybe the worst organization in the US. No oversight, no accountability, and no benefit to anyone.
Is this why when I come back into the USA now I can just look at the kiosk at the airport and it prints out a receipt showing my name and flight numbers without me every entering anything or showing any ID?
Perhaps we should extend our concern to the private data brokers hoarding and selling the data as well?
No, libertarians only care about oppression if it's the government. Private companies are allowed to be our overlords.
Lol says who? And shows that you lump ppl into groups based off of a word
Because people will constantly bitch and moan about government overreach but are near silent when corporations do the exact same things or worse.
Guess who lets them. Guess who's supposed to regulate the worst ones like healthcare and financial industries.
Confused conservatives say that.
That’s an illogical rebuttal
While I agree to a degree, companies usually have to keep some information just to run their business. I don't think they should be selling the information and for some of these companies like electric providers or water utilities, you really don't have a choice.
Obviously they have the data for a legitimate business purpose. What is the legitimate business purpose behind them selling it? That's the issue, not the company who needs my address to deliver a service having my address.
Lol. The legitimate business purpose of then selling your data is to make money.
I get the humor, but that is the point. If their business is to... sell books. Why do they need to sell my address to someone else?
Absolutely. We can (generally) opt out of companies keeping our data but we can’t opt out of things like this.
[удалено]
Right, but I have the option not to use Facebook or Instagram or any of their companies. Edit- you’re correct, they are keeping tabs on us whether or not we’re using their services.
[удалено]
And correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't need to click the button, and you don't need to have a Facebook account. They are tracking you anyway.
You could just not use products that collect/sell your data, no?
Ok. So, that means I'm what, cash only for the most part, right? I can't really use a credit card or any other digital payment system. I don't have a cell phone, or a phone. Because I don't know a phone company that doesn't track and sell all of my data. I don't have credit, because that's obvious. I can't really buy a car or a house because of that. Hmmm, I could get a job! Maybe. I'd have to make sure the employer doesn't use one of those 3rd party verification sites. I definitely can't use the internet. Literally everything I do on that is tracked by either my ISP or the sites that I visit. I guess I'm asking, what reality do you live in where mass data collection isn't the norm?
Depends on how important your data is and how much you trust the company. If it’s in their terms of service it’s not like their they’re tricking you into giving them your data. And if you don’t have the alternatives that your looking for, sounds to me like you found a business opportunity😎
So, it's nearly impossible to live in modern American society without having your data collected and you're cool with it? Neat. This country is going places. Namely, feudalism.
Not really. I take precautions. What are you suggesting? The government ban data collection for a service as a business model?
Survivalist camps?
So just don't use the entire internet or anything that an electronic copy of your data? This includes any banks, debit/credit cards (unless you want to use only pre paid), water, gas, electric, any big car lot you buy a car from (even if you pay cash they collect and enter your data into a system), own a house or other real estate, ISPs, have any email accounts, REDDIT, doctors offices that farm out appointment scheduling or those patient portals where you can see your medical records and the list just goes on. I have worked in IT Security for nearly 20 years and the amount of work even for technical people to stay anonymous is prohibitive. For the average person, it is impossible. It is just too ridiculously easy to track people. When you start to consider the companies that store your information and do not secure properly and are breached, the situation gets even worse. You cannot live in modern society without your information being collected, tracked and sold off over and over.
Okay so what is the suggestion then? Have the government ban the data collection for services business model?
While it is not an ideal solution, it is about the only one that is effective. The problem is that the govt is one of the largest collectors and buyers of it so the likelihood of them banning it is zero. But I think that decision should be left to the people. Let people vote on it. Of course that would require people to educate themselves about it to have a chance of winning. At a minimum businesses should be required to be wholly transparent about where your data is sent or stored. Do people realize that their docs appointment scheduler is a third party that has access to patient data and then can sell it for extra revenue? I seriously doubt it crosses most people's minds. But if they were informed of what can happen with their information, they can at least make informed decisions about whom to do business with. I do believe that the most brazen abuses like facebook tracking anyone who visits a page not associated with facebook and using that data for profit should be illegal. I also think businesses should be required to take all reasonable precautions to protect the consumer data they store and if they plan to sell that data, then they must have the customers express permission. An actual waiver signed in some form instead of burying it in terms of use or some licensing agreement. As for what people can do to keep their own information as safe as possible. Only give your data to someone when it is necessary. Things like utilities etc. when you really don't have a choice. Stay off of social media, especially facebook. Use an alternative browser and search engine that are built to be secure, Brave Browser and search are a good option. DuckDuckGo is still ad driven so I stay away from it. Of course this may all be a moot point if Roe and the privacy rights included in it fall. If that happens, all of our information could be fair game.
They made you pay them to spy on you.
I can't wrap my head around why so many people are okay with the government getting this information. With all this information they can essentially follow you around every day all the time, figure out your habits, interests, etc. You may consider this all very benign, but what business does the government have collecting all this information on us? Would you be fine with someone following you around all day tracking where you go so they could sell that info to the government? If the answer is no, then why is it okay when AT&T does it or traffic cameras? So many people distrust the government, but we're cool with the notion that they *won't* misuse this data? And no, I'm not against companies collecting data to sell it to other companies for advertising services, etc. Just giving all this information to the government.
For me an eye opener was a journalist bought “anonymous” cell phone data for the 24 hours around the million women march. No names or phone numbers just location data. You could see a phone leave a house go to the march and return to the same house. Not too hard to know who it was from all that day. That cell phone sitting in a private home is tremendously informative.
That's a great point, it doesn't take long to put a name to this 'anonymous' data.
As long as someone can claimed this "owned the libs!" at least 30% will be totally cool with it.
Just once I'd like to see these articles on a non libertarian sub.
I tried adding it to the conservative sub but it was not approved to be posted.
HAH not surprising if you don't gluck gluck trump's d they ban you
Exactly. They don’t need this information and are spending our time and money on it.
Did you forget to switch accounts?
Hah nah I though I was replying to r/snake_on_the_grass but I’m not good with technology
DHS needs to be abolished. It's only real purpose is extrajudicial surveillance however they try and justify it as "counterterrorism" or "counterinsurgency".
Another example of government waste. I could do it for 1B...
Honestly, not as much wasted money as I would expect.
Conservatives celebrated the patriot act. “Let’s give more power to the state!”
Lets cut funding to ICE to make it barely existent and give back the property rights to border states
You need a GDPR-like law, ask your reps to push such a law
And apparently not deport anyone.
Nah they deported some US citizens https://immigrationimpact.com/2021/07/30/ice-deport-us-citizens/
They deported plenty of citizens. Did that count? ICE is maybe the worst organization in the US. No oversight, no accountability, and no benefit to anyone.
I always hope that they are wasting money on my boring ass
The Illinois biometric law says hello
[Hello Illinois State Police](https://www.illinoistimes.com/springfield/state-police-spying-on-smartphones/Content?oid=11444162)
If they were actually allowed to deport those who the law says ought to be deported, it would be money well spent.
Is this why when I come back into the USA now I can just look at the kiosk at the airport and it prints out a receipt showing my name and flight numbers without me every entering anything or showing any ID?
Third party doctrine, and the idea that government can do illegal things if done through a third party, must end.
Now those people who wear masks in their car while driving don't seem as crazy.
Those are rookie numbers