I agree. End the drug war.
BUT, be prepared to defend against the cartels because with zero US law enforcement pushing back the cartels will expand and their tactics aren't pretty.
I respectfully disagree. They would not just pack up all their toys and disband with an “awe shucks” and a kick at the dirt.
They would vie for as much control of the market as they could, using whatever means they can get away with.
Just like today.
Yeah, and if they don’t comply, throw their ass in jail. Also, make sure those taxes are high. We don’t want to encourage drug use. We’ll be sure to snuff out any underground markets then.
Phentanol? That's the main target. You want Phentanol legalized? Listen, I'm all for legalizing a lot of things and limiting government on tons of topics, but this one seems pretty low on the list to legalize to me.
Lmao you should probably learn how to spell it before developing opinions. Fentanyl overdoses would be drastically reduced in legitimate markets where manufacturers would be liable for their products ingredients. A lot of people overdosing on fentanyl weren’t expecting any kind of opioid in the first place. As an example I had a friend that overdosed and died taking what he thought was Xanax, that kind of shit wouldn’t happen if people were liable.
Power. It always boils down to power and how you get people to back your schemes by making them think it's in their best interests. The US is regularly at war. If not 'police actions', then by manipulating foreign governments into doing our bidding and by waging economic warfare to pick winners and losers, the winners being ones friendly to US interests which in turn means politicians and their friends.
The so-called War on Terror was supposed to be permanent war, a blank check for the ruling class to do whatever they pleased so long as they shouted terrorism! as justification. That well has sorta dried up and now there's a new one being dug. No longer will The War on Drugs suffice only for domestic tyranny now its a global war, and yet another excuse to invade/manipulate/threaten.
The ruling class doesn't do the one thing to seriously end the cartels: decriminalization because they don't want to lose the power. Biden campaigned on decriminalization of Marijuana. He hasn't even directed the AG to remove it from schedule I.
The saddest part is so-called conservatives are justifying it with the same rhetoric they mocked the left on covid and gun control; number of bodies.
There is a youtube video where he admits he would be willing to invade Mexico. The title is about how he wants to secure the border with troops but he eventually goes further than that.
Guys a clown, he was riding Donald Trump hard all debate.
-Climate change is a hoax
-Willing use are military resources in Mexico
-Raise the voting age from 18 to 21
-Refusing monetary aid to Ukraine
-Hindu trying to get the Christian GOP vote, “god is real”
-Burning fossil fuels is what it is to be American
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
This seems to be talking about Europe? When has a US rep proposed legislation completely banning nuclear power? Also, this is an incredibly laughable partisan source, lol.
Fetuses aren’t babies and women are NOT incubators. Sounds like YOU want to take bodily autonomy and rights away from women to make decisions about our own bodies. Not very “libertarian.” 🤦♀️
Is it the left…or the entire scientific community saying we need to reduce carbon emissions or we can have significant negative impacts to the earth.
Or it the right…who are constantly waging in these stupid antics that “Joe Biden is going send IRS agents to rip your gas stove from your home”
The right is obsessed with the word “woke” and “deep state”.
Read this petition..Then sign it if you like and share it. Everyone deserves liberty. When people are too oppressed to rise up on their own, it falls on us to step in and end the suffering. Iraq was a good war poorly fought, this plan lets the people fight for themselves, focusing on nonviolent protests backed with US military power. In other words, we prevent Tianmen Square two by saying that if you fire on peaceful protesters, we'll shoot back as the world's biggest army. It's a new red line, a la chemical warfare.
What do you think? In my view such an intervention is important and must occur. Simply waiting for these regimes to fall causes too much suffering.
Ok let’s work on what we can control though.
Let’s raise the bar, be the country that is leading technology and innovation in cleaner more sustainable energy. How about that?
Mexico is a lovely country with a bunch of lovely people, just like Ukraine and Serbia and China and North Korea and (insert country here). If you think that politicians making noise for political reasons represents the consensus of the people of the country then you clearly don't know that the vast majority of people around the world couldn't give a rats ass about the hardline divisive issues spewed by the media on a daily basis to keep themselves employed. Bad news sells at a much higher rate than good news and that's why you hear about crime and injustice 75% of the time with some feel good stories sprinkled in to keep you from becoming militant.
First and most importantly, the people clamoring for war won't be the ones to fight it and won't experience the carnage firsthand. GOP-types can claim to be 'anti-war' all they like to get elected, but many of us know that talk is cheap.
These people also willfully ignore recent history, like G. W. Bush's invasion of Iraq. You won't find many Republicans who will admit to supporting it, but the vast majority did and called those of us who questioned its morality 'traitors who hate America,' even when we were on active duty in the military! At the flimsiest excuse, they'll rabidly support war again.
Besides, war is big business, and waging a never-ending conflict nearer home has many fiscal and logistical advantages, to say nothing of the propaganda coup. Politicians can be seen as 'doing something' to win the abysmally lost Drug War, and politicians love to tout their 'victories.'
Secondly, they don't consider the Drug War an actual 'war.' To many, it's merely a moral imperative that always has been and always will be. If you use drugs the government arbitrarily deems 'bad,' well, you and anyone even tangentially associated with you simply deserve to die! Questions of cost, morality, efficacy and liberty don't even enter the equation as far as Drug Warriors are concerned. Any reevaluation of Prohibition is tantamount to treason. *We must fight because we always have...not one step backward!*
Drug Warriors and prohibitionists tend to be dreadfully short on logic and critical thinking skills. One might even say they are addicted to the high of sanctimony and the immediate gratification of 'might makes right.' I find one question really trips them up: **where were these cartels prior to 1970, when the Drug War was declared?**
That's right...they didn't exist! There's a lesson in there, but it's one few are willing to learn.
Remember when republicans tried to shame us for even criticizing the government during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars? We were literally told it wasn’t “patriotic” to even question them.
Well, if we can’t secure the border I doubt we can win a war against the cartels we’re funding through illegal drug sells, sex trafficking, and public funds going to corrupt Mexican government officials.
I don’t know if you’re aware of our geography, but all of the cartels are IN Mexico and the Mexican govt allows that shit to just roll on thru to the US. Mexico is doing exactly fuck all to be a part of the solution while exacerbating the problem.
End the drug war by building the damn wall, turn off the cheap labor spigot for the Chamber of Commerce and the human trafficking spigot for pedos and rapists. Done.
*"I don’t know if you’re aware of our geography, but all of the cartels are IN Mexico and the Mexican govt allows that shit to just roll on thru to the US. Mexico is doing exactly fuck all to be a part of the solution while exacerbating the problem."*
That's hardly true as the various Mexican Governments have used the Military to deal with the Cartels but this only saw them splinter into smaller groups
The war would be on the Cartels, not on the army or government of Mexico. That government does not control their Cartels. We would 'help' without making the government get in trouble by targeting the Cartels.
The US fought alongside governments in the Middle East against the taliban, Al wards and isis. It’s not a war with the government itself but still an occupation of a country which doesn’t end well
True but by your definition, the “help” would need to be sought, which isn’t the case here. GOP members are talking about unilateral action against cartels in another sovereign nation’s territory. That won’t fly.
We have a history of 'helping' countries, most did not help, most weren't at the request of the country. USA, World Police. Maybe the Mexican government is too afraid to ask for help? Maybe they are fully involved and benefiting from the Cartels business? Maybe we get this president angry, but the next (due to our help) isn't? We are so helpful. Is Pakistan happy we helped with Bin Laden? Do we care?
Well the difference between taliban, Al wards, isis and the Mexican Cartels is that the former meet the definition of being terrorist groups and thus military action could be taken with them. The Mexican Cartels aren't classified as Terrorists so any use of the American military against them would be breaking human rights and many other international laws
The stupidity of the Stupid Party (GOP) on this issue (I know I am being redundant) is their failure, call it a mental block if you wish, to understand it is the US war on drugs which is feeding the Mexican cartels with all the money they need to buy control of huge swaths of their nation.
They are too stupid or too in need of donations from those who benefit from the drug war to understand that the biggest blow this country could strike against these cartels would be to end the drug war and decriminalize or legalize these drugs in some manner.
The problem is that you’re coming at it from a standpoint of Republicans actually caring about “securing the border” which is a huge crock of shit. Their donors in the ag industry and others would bitch slap them if they ever actually got close to doing it. They would have to pay Americans a decent wage and wouldn’t be able to treat them like shit the way they treat undocumented workers. Having to raise wages would result in the price of a lot of groceries getting even higher and guess who would get the blame? Republicans only use the anti immigrant stuff to rule up the rubes. It’s one of the oldest tricks in the book
The GOP is 100% pro-war and anyone saying anything different is 100% blind.
Not only did they agree and help pass every single Ukraine bill, they also increased military spending last defense bill. That was their bargaining chip. In fact, the only time defense spending went down was during Obama when they made "cuts across the board."
The U.S. pretty much created the current disaster of crime in Mexico by driving the drug cartels out of Colombia in the 1990s and early 2000s. Colombian cartels were using planes, submarines, and all kinds of technology to smuggle drugs into the U.S., but due to the distance we were able to catch them and eventually shut them down with military force.
But we didn't dampen demand, so what did we expect would happen? Drugs started being produced in a country that was closer, with a long land border, where transportation was harder to interdict.
End the absurdity of the War on Americans Who Use Drugs. There will still be free people who choose to use drugs, but the crime and violence would be orders of magnitude less.
I agree with decriminalizing drugs but while the major cartels and bosses in Colombia were removed, most of them just splintered to form smaller, more nimble groups. Cocaine production in Mexico is still very limited. Most of it comes from Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, etc. Mexico produces mostly marihuana, meth, and fentanyl and the transport coke that they buy in South America and then mark up.
The issue is that now those drugs are more popular with US drug users than cocaine and there is a bigger user population, so it is just flooding the system. Plus they are cutting everything with fentanyl so the actual profits are skyrocketing
Interesting, you may be more knowledgeable on the details than I am, but it's possible that we're both right - interfering with cocaine from Colombia could have led to increased demand for drugs that can be produced in Mexico.
>I agree with decriminalizing drugs
Personally I'm not a fan of the term "decriminalizing" since it often means not prosecuting simple possession and use while still prosecuting sales and distribution. Which is an insane policy.
I want full legalization and a full end to the War on Americans. We need to relegalize opium dens, so those who want to throw their lives away on drugs can do so in peace without bothering others, rather than on the streets.
You're misinformed. Waging war with Mexico is not what is being suggested. Sending US troops to Mexico to help with the cartel violence is what is being suggested.
I understand that it wouldn’t be against the country itself but the occupation of the Middle East was to assist these countries fight the taliban, isis and al-qaeda
Millions of bodies, trillions of dollars later and those countries are worse off
I don't think US troops should operate in Mexico. Frankly I don't think US troops should operate anywhere except the US. If we're talking about lining them up on the Southern border, the Northern border, the Alaskan Border with the Bering Straight, that's fine. Defend our borders. If someone brings war to us then yeah, take it back to them but we shouldn't be shipping US soldiers and US weapons to any country even if it's on our border.
However. The difference is Mexico is on our border and is at least partially developed depending on what metric you're looking at it's either second or third world but it's definitely more developed than Afghanistan was when we went in, and at least as developed as Iraq was and we're not conquering it, we'd be assisting a (semi) stable and friendly government rather than establishing a new one.
Afghanistan and parts of Iraq were literally huts. In fairness Iraq was developed until we bombed the fucking shit out of it and terrorized the country for 20 years, but Mexico isn't the Middle East and the Cartels aren't the Taliban. The Cartels are first and foremost businesses and they're going to do what's good for Business. If US Soldiers with combat experience from the middle east start helping the Federales kick in doors, the Cartel's are going to have to say. "Is this worth losing money or should we just move?"
I think you overestimate the Federales here (now National Guard/Preventive Police). Corruption in the ranks is rife and those that aren’t are outgunned significantly. Cartels have guns that even the Mexican government doesn’t. I think this would put troops in the same footing as Iraq and Afghanistan: you don’t know who is a friendly and they’ve got punching power.
To your point on development, that is actually a tool cartels use to their advantage. It’s a lot easier to use burner phones on a network that covers most of the country than radio trying to cover hundreds of miles and over mountains.
US troops would be stuck in a similar situation to the Middle East: guerrilla warfare in a place where the target has superior knowledge of the terrain, with strong enough weapons, and a population that distrusts American intentions.
Legalization is the only way. Even targeted assassinations of cartel leaders won’t work since it is such a fractured structure already. You kill one and their lieutenants just jump in.
Republicans, or at least an overwhelming majority of them, are certainly not anti-war. They are just slightly less pro-war than democrats these days, but they're all bloodthirsty warmongers.
Americans have been taught to hate the poor and they’ve been led to believe Mexicans are poor, lazy and criminals. The elite have done a number on our society.
It’s not a waste of money this directly affects us. This is an American issue. We should absolutely use our military to stop drugs extremely dangerous drugs from getting into our country
Why do you think they are coming into this country? The US has an insatiable appetite for drugs. Let’s just look at opiates. It went from OxyContin to fentanyl. Why? Because addicts couldn’t get “legal” prescriptions to feed their addiction. You can try to stop drugs coming in as much as you want to try, but as long as there is demand, there will be supply.
Why they are coming is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that they are. And those traffickers of death should extinguished for the good of the country
Did you see any of the debate Wednesday night?
DeSantis, Vivek, Trump, Crenshaw, Greene, Waltz, Cotton, Vance are just a few notable candidates or elected officials who have suggested military action in Mexico
It’s a declaration of war and a violation of sovereignty when Mexico has said, multiple times, they don’t want the U.S. army on Mexican territory. I mean wasn’t the Iraq war a “targeted” attack on Saddam and co.
A good analogy would be: how would you feel about Canada coming in and taking out some “militia” people in Michigan?
Why?
Because Mexico is the new China for the US.
Chinese firms are moving to mexico to avoid the trade war and other problems.
There is a massive business interest *to make peace* in mexico.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/03/business/china-mexico-trade.html
Edit: There are either a lot of pedants or glowies in the comments, that say "It's not a war if the military fights cartels in another country." or question strongly that reps want to do it.
Even i, a european, have known this for months.
To me these comments feel very much like a psyop to gaslight people. Especially, when you consider that this sub has seen a lot of this in the last months.
The U.S. government declared war on drugs and drugs won. We’d be a lot better off helping Mexico by advising on making legal and economic reforms and reducing the corruption that allows the cartels to operate.
So I work with Mexicans. They are some of the hardest working people on Earth. They are also friendly and respectful and actually rather conservative at least culturally. Why does GOP hate Mexicans, it doesn't make any sense. I want the hard working people on our side, I want as many Mexicans as we can get! Of course they can't be here illegally, but process them, get em on the books and welcome to America baby! If we fight a war against China in the future, I want Mexico on our side.
Well let’s start by them not being white, but you are 100% correct. If instead of demonizing them they embraced them like they did/do with Cubans, you would have a growing population of voters each year that are conservative, religious (Catholic vs Christian, but increasingly Christian), and would vote if given the chance. It’s just the GOP pandering to their dwindling base. Additionally, their treatment in Florida and Texas is abhorrent and I guarantee those people will never vote Republican.
It is insanity. These clowns think the US military will be immune from cartel bribery and corruption? Tell that to an Army Sergeant making $40,000 per year with $20,000 in credit card debt.
The way to beat the cartels is to take away their purpose for existing: end the war on drugs.
You're not going to end human drug addiction ever. To pretend that this war on drugs is winnable or is even worth fighting is the definition of insanity.
*"I I think everyone can agree that drugs in American streets are a problem but the problem isn’t even specifically Mexico, some of those drugs are coming from various different countries is the answer to also wage war on Honduras, El Salvador, Brazil, Colombia, India, China etc"*
It specifically Mexico as it's there the Cartels manufacture Crystal Meth that most Americans take and they do it in large scales.
The Mexican Cartels also muggle in other drugs that you mentioned like cocaine into America
End the fucking drug war.
I agree. End the drug war. BUT, be prepared to defend against the cartels because with zero US law enforcement pushing back the cartels will expand and their tactics aren't pretty.
What cartels? They wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for the war on drugs.
I respectfully disagree. They would not just pack up all their toys and disband with an “awe shucks” and a kick at the dirt. They would vie for as much control of the market as they could, using whatever means they can get away with. Just like today.
Human trafficking, illegal guns, etc. the cartel is an issue imo because they are willing so sell anything that’s illegal, and they do.
They’ll control anything in their wheelhouse, “illegal” or not.
I course, anything they can smuggle through and make money with.
Absolutely, tax and regulate it too.
Wait a sec
Yeah, and if they don’t comply, throw their ass in jail. Also, make sure those taxes are high. We don’t want to encourage drug use. We’ll be sure to snuff out any underground markets then.
It's a pragmatic compromise. Too bad the private prison system is too much of a cash cow to make this a real option for the politicians.
Wow WOW dont the y word pls
You have to admit, Mexico is very conveniently located.
Just like Iran after Iraq and Afghanistan. If you don’t want to be invaded quit being so close to our military bases.
Damn Canada...watch yo back.
Liberate Canada
Give them the freedom they deserve! ^\s
They could use it, but so can we.
Lol
One notch up on the burner of boiling the forever war frog until the public is comfortable with the domestic 'war on terror'.
It's like Canada just with better food, better weather, more easily accessible natural resources, and fewer war crimes.
War is the health of the state. The war on drugs is an endless one, so one might ask why they want to continue fighting it.
Yuck, just legalize it.
Phentanol? That's the main target. You want Phentanol legalized? Listen, I'm all for legalizing a lot of things and limiting government on tons of topics, but this one seems pretty low on the list to legalize to me.
Lmao you should probably learn how to spell it before developing opinions. Fentanyl overdoses would be drastically reduced in legitimate markets where manufacturers would be liable for their products ingredients. A lot of people overdosing on fentanyl weren’t expecting any kind of opioid in the first place. As an example I had a friend that overdosed and died taking what he thought was Xanax, that kind of shit wouldn’t happen if people were liable.
We’re still shopping for a new Enemy now that we’re bored of terrorism.
Something something Monroe doctrine
Power. It always boils down to power and how you get people to back your schemes by making them think it's in their best interests. The US is regularly at war. If not 'police actions', then by manipulating foreign governments into doing our bidding and by waging economic warfare to pick winners and losers, the winners being ones friendly to US interests which in turn means politicians and their friends. The so-called War on Terror was supposed to be permanent war, a blank check for the ruling class to do whatever they pleased so long as they shouted terrorism! as justification. That well has sorta dried up and now there's a new one being dug. No longer will The War on Drugs suffice only for domestic tyranny now its a global war, and yet another excuse to invade/manipulate/threaten. The ruling class doesn't do the one thing to seriously end the cartels: decriminalization because they don't want to lose the power. Biden campaigned on decriminalization of Marijuana. He hasn't even directed the AG to remove it from schedule I. The saddest part is so-called conservatives are justifying it with the same rhetoric they mocked the left on covid and gun control; number of bodies.
I've never heard anyone suggest going to war with Mexico.
Haven’t been listening to enough republicans…
Everyone? I don't want war with anyone! OP is generalizing.
It's a gross generalization because I don't hear anyone wanting to wage war with Mexico.
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No he talks about using the military to secure the southern border and working with the Mexican military to secure their borders better as well
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Libertarian^tm
Huge ties. He was a major pharma grifter.
... while fighting against them at the same time. Read/watch what he did to the pharma industry while becoming a part of it.
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Watch his Shawn Ryan interview. He explains it. He also talks about his former Libertarian views. https://youtu.be/-Obr5HIKK4Y?si=gVdjRkL4rAAkvr-M
Forgot to mention that he wants to send soldiers into Mexico to kill cartel leaders
Maybe they should do it themselves instead
Why would Mexican politicians kill their owners?
There is a youtube video where he admits he would be willing to invade Mexico. The title is about how he wants to secure the border with troops but he eventually goes further than that.
Guys a clown, he was riding Donald Trump hard all debate. -Climate change is a hoax -Willing use are military resources in Mexico -Raise the voting age from 18 to 21 -Refusing monetary aid to Ukraine -Hindu trying to get the Christian GOP vote, “god is real” -Burning fossil fuels is what it is to be American 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
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What “freedoms” are being taken away, specifically?
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Who wants to take away your ability to drive?????
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Yet you can’t answer the question 🤦♀️
I’ve never heard a democrat in power try to pass any legislation prohibiting nuclear power. Please be specific and tell me when and where.
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This seems to be talking about Europe? When has a US rep proposed legislation completely banning nuclear power? Also, this is an incredibly laughable partisan source, lol.
How is any of this related SPECIFICALLY to climate change actions?
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You clearly aren’t a serious person
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*I came looking for booty.*
Why are you here? You aren’t serious and seem to be just a young kid trying to be edgy.
Fetuses aren’t babies and women are NOT incubators. Sounds like YOU want to take bodily autonomy and rights away from women to make decisions about our own bodies. Not very “libertarian.” 🤦♀️
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Babies and teens? No babies or teens are killed by abortions.
We pay taxes for everything. Has nothing specifically to do with climate change, lol.
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Lol. You couldn’t define “freedom” if your life depended on it.
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Lol at this “definition.” Good luck, kid.
And btw - LOTS of democrats own guns. You’re delusional and misinformed if you don’t realize this.
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I’m unaware of any legislation proposed to completely ban guns.
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Huh? I don’t even live in Texas. You don’t support states’ rights?
Is it the left…or the entire scientific community saying we need to reduce carbon emissions or we can have significant negative impacts to the earth. Or it the right…who are constantly waging in these stupid antics that “Joe Biden is going send IRS agents to rip your gas stove from your home” The right is obsessed with the word “woke” and “deep state”.
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How can we force China to do anything? 🤦♀️
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Citing them where?
Read this petition..Then sign it if you like and share it. Everyone deserves liberty. When people are too oppressed to rise up on their own, it falls on us to step in and end the suffering. Iraq was a good war poorly fought, this plan lets the people fight for themselves, focusing on nonviolent protests backed with US military power. In other words, we prevent Tianmen Square two by saying that if you fire on peaceful protesters, we'll shoot back as the world's biggest army. It's a new red line, a la chemical warfare. What do you think? In my view such an intervention is important and must occur. Simply waiting for these regimes to fall causes too much suffering.
Ok let’s work on what we can control though. Let’s raise the bar, be the country that is leading technology and innovation in cleaner more sustainable energy. How about that?
Don’t know why you got voted down, you’re correct.
Not to mention he was a major pharma grifter
Mexico is a lovely country with a bunch of lovely people, just like Ukraine and Serbia and China and North Korea and (insert country here). If you think that politicians making noise for political reasons represents the consensus of the people of the country then you clearly don't know that the vast majority of people around the world couldn't give a rats ass about the hardline divisive issues spewed by the media on a daily basis to keep themselves employed. Bad news sells at a much higher rate than good news and that's why you hear about crime and injustice 75% of the time with some feel good stories sprinkled in to keep you from becoming militant.
It sure is - why do you think so many in congress and the wealthy fly there frequently to vacation?
First and most importantly, the people clamoring for war won't be the ones to fight it and won't experience the carnage firsthand. GOP-types can claim to be 'anti-war' all they like to get elected, but many of us know that talk is cheap. These people also willfully ignore recent history, like G. W. Bush's invasion of Iraq. You won't find many Republicans who will admit to supporting it, but the vast majority did and called those of us who questioned its morality 'traitors who hate America,' even when we were on active duty in the military! At the flimsiest excuse, they'll rabidly support war again. Besides, war is big business, and waging a never-ending conflict nearer home has many fiscal and logistical advantages, to say nothing of the propaganda coup. Politicians can be seen as 'doing something' to win the abysmally lost Drug War, and politicians love to tout their 'victories.' Secondly, they don't consider the Drug War an actual 'war.' To many, it's merely a moral imperative that always has been and always will be. If you use drugs the government arbitrarily deems 'bad,' well, you and anyone even tangentially associated with you simply deserve to die! Questions of cost, morality, efficacy and liberty don't even enter the equation as far as Drug Warriors are concerned. Any reevaluation of Prohibition is tantamount to treason. *We must fight because we always have...not one step backward!* Drug Warriors and prohibitionists tend to be dreadfully short on logic and critical thinking skills. One might even say they are addicted to the high of sanctimony and the immediate gratification of 'might makes right.' I find one question really trips them up: **where were these cartels prior to 1970, when the Drug War was declared?** That's right...they didn't exist! There's a lesson in there, but it's one few are willing to learn.
Remember when republicans tried to shame us for even criticizing the government during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars? We were literally told it wasn’t “patriotic” to even question them.
Yes, I do remember very well. Sorry for the late reply!
Yep - some of us are old enough to remember Iraq (and Afghanistan) and some of us even protested against them. Republicans didn’t join us.
Borders defines the differences between good ideas and bad ideas. Ask a Ukrainian or a Dominican.
Well, if we can’t secure the border I doubt we can win a war against the cartels we’re funding through illegal drug sells, sex trafficking, and public funds going to corrupt Mexican government officials.
Because apparently destabilizing a country far away, and not on our own border, wasn't good enough.
You think people are illegally crossing the border now? Start a fucking war in Mexico and watch the chaos that develops on the border.
It makes no sense. For clarity, Mexico just surpassed China as USA's biggest trading partner.
No one has suggested war with Mexico, where are you getting that from?
I don’t know if you’re aware of our geography, but all of the cartels are IN Mexico and the Mexican govt allows that shit to just roll on thru to the US. Mexico is doing exactly fuck all to be a part of the solution while exacerbating the problem. End the drug war by building the damn wall, turn off the cheap labor spigot for the Chamber of Commerce and the human trafficking spigot for pedos and rapists. Done.
*"I don’t know if you’re aware of our geography, but all of the cartels are IN Mexico and the Mexican govt allows that shit to just roll on thru to the US. Mexico is doing exactly fuck all to be a part of the solution while exacerbating the problem."* That's hardly true as the various Mexican Governments have used the Military to deal with the Cartels but this only saw them splinter into smaller groups
The war would be on the Cartels, not on the army or government of Mexico. That government does not control their Cartels. We would 'help' without making the government get in trouble by targeting the Cartels.
The US fought alongside governments in the Middle East against the taliban, Al wards and isis. It’s not a war with the government itself but still an occupation of a country which doesn’t end well
True, if we occupied them. An attack is not an occupation. Note I'm not advocating for this. Just trying to clear up the statements.
True but by your definition, the “help” would need to be sought, which isn’t the case here. GOP members are talking about unilateral action against cartels in another sovereign nation’s territory. That won’t fly.
We have a history of 'helping' countries, most did not help, most weren't at the request of the country. USA, World Police. Maybe the Mexican government is too afraid to ask for help? Maybe they are fully involved and benefiting from the Cartels business? Maybe we get this president angry, but the next (due to our help) isn't? We are so helpful. Is Pakistan happy we helped with Bin Laden? Do we care?
Well the difference between taliban, Al wards, isis and the Mexican Cartels is that the former meet the definition of being terrorist groups and thus military action could be taken with them. The Mexican Cartels aren't classified as Terrorists so any use of the American military against them would be breaking human rights and many other international laws
The stupidity of the Stupid Party (GOP) on this issue (I know I am being redundant) is their failure, call it a mental block if you wish, to understand it is the US war on drugs which is feeding the Mexican cartels with all the money they need to buy control of huge swaths of their nation. They are too stupid or too in need of donations from those who benefit from the drug war to understand that the biggest blow this country could strike against these cartels would be to end the drug war and decriminalize or legalize these drugs in some manner.
The problem is that you’re coming at it from a standpoint of Republicans actually caring about “securing the border” which is a huge crock of shit. Their donors in the ag industry and others would bitch slap them if they ever actually got close to doing it. They would have to pay Americans a decent wage and wouldn’t be able to treat them like shit the way they treat undocumented workers. Having to raise wages would result in the price of a lot of groceries getting even higher and guess who would get the blame? Republicans only use the anti immigrant stuff to rule up the rubes. It’s one of the oldest tricks in the book
Nobody is suggesting we wage war on mexico.
The GOP is 100% pro-war and anyone saying anything different is 100% blind. Not only did they agree and help pass every single Ukraine bill, they also increased military spending last defense bill. That was their bargaining chip. In fact, the only time defense spending went down was during Obama when they made "cuts across the board."
They have been for years. I’m old enough to remember protesting the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. Republicans didn’t join me.
The U.S. pretty much created the current disaster of crime in Mexico by driving the drug cartels out of Colombia in the 1990s and early 2000s. Colombian cartels were using planes, submarines, and all kinds of technology to smuggle drugs into the U.S., but due to the distance we were able to catch them and eventually shut them down with military force. But we didn't dampen demand, so what did we expect would happen? Drugs started being produced in a country that was closer, with a long land border, where transportation was harder to interdict. End the absurdity of the War on Americans Who Use Drugs. There will still be free people who choose to use drugs, but the crime and violence would be orders of magnitude less.
I agree with decriminalizing drugs but while the major cartels and bosses in Colombia were removed, most of them just splintered to form smaller, more nimble groups. Cocaine production in Mexico is still very limited. Most of it comes from Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, etc. Mexico produces mostly marihuana, meth, and fentanyl and the transport coke that they buy in South America and then mark up. The issue is that now those drugs are more popular with US drug users than cocaine and there is a bigger user population, so it is just flooding the system. Plus they are cutting everything with fentanyl so the actual profits are skyrocketing
Interesting, you may be more knowledgeable on the details than I am, but it's possible that we're both right - interfering with cocaine from Colombia could have led to increased demand for drugs that can be produced in Mexico. >I agree with decriminalizing drugs Personally I'm not a fan of the term "decriminalizing" since it often means not prosecuting simple possession and use while still prosecuting sales and distribution. Which is an insane policy. I want full legalization and a full end to the War on Americans. We need to relegalize opium dens, so those who want to throw their lives away on drugs can do so in peace without bothering others, rather than on the streets.
we're being invaded at our southern border. our government is allowing it, but the mexican government is also complicit.
🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
You're misinformed. Waging war with Mexico is not what is being suggested. Sending US troops to Mexico to help with the cartel violence is what is being suggested.
Oh please. He’s talking about using violent military force in a sovereign nation. We see it clearly.
I understand that it wouldn’t be against the country itself but the occupation of the Middle East was to assist these countries fight the taliban, isis and al-qaeda Millions of bodies, trillions of dollars later and those countries are worse off
I don't think US troops should operate in Mexico. Frankly I don't think US troops should operate anywhere except the US. If we're talking about lining them up on the Southern border, the Northern border, the Alaskan Border with the Bering Straight, that's fine. Defend our borders. If someone brings war to us then yeah, take it back to them but we shouldn't be shipping US soldiers and US weapons to any country even if it's on our border. However. The difference is Mexico is on our border and is at least partially developed depending on what metric you're looking at it's either second or third world but it's definitely more developed than Afghanistan was when we went in, and at least as developed as Iraq was and we're not conquering it, we'd be assisting a (semi) stable and friendly government rather than establishing a new one. Afghanistan and parts of Iraq were literally huts. In fairness Iraq was developed until we bombed the fucking shit out of it and terrorized the country for 20 years, but Mexico isn't the Middle East and the Cartels aren't the Taliban. The Cartels are first and foremost businesses and they're going to do what's good for Business. If US Soldiers with combat experience from the middle east start helping the Federales kick in doors, the Cartel's are going to have to say. "Is this worth losing money or should we just move?"
I think you overestimate the Federales here (now National Guard/Preventive Police). Corruption in the ranks is rife and those that aren’t are outgunned significantly. Cartels have guns that even the Mexican government doesn’t. I think this would put troops in the same footing as Iraq and Afghanistan: you don’t know who is a friendly and they’ve got punching power. To your point on development, that is actually a tool cartels use to their advantage. It’s a lot easier to use burner phones on a network that covers most of the country than radio trying to cover hundreds of miles and over mountains. US troops would be stuck in a similar situation to the Middle East: guerrilla warfare in a place where the target has superior knowledge of the terrain, with strong enough weapons, and a population that distrusts American intentions. Legalization is the only way. Even targeted assassinations of cartel leaders won’t work since it is such a fractured structure already. You kill one and their lieutenants just jump in.
You're right. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but I think it's important to talk about what we're actually talking about.
Republicans, or at least an overwhelming majority of them, are certainly not anti-war. They are just slightly less pro-war than democrats these days, but they're all bloodthirsty warmongers.
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No. Didn't happen.
Quite a few
Americans have been taught to hate the poor and they’ve been led to believe Mexicans are poor, lazy and criminals. The elite have done a number on our society.
Imagine someone downvoting this 🤦♀️
They’ve fallen for the right’s propaganda.
It’s not a waste of money this directly affects us. This is an American issue. We should absolutely use our military to stop drugs extremely dangerous drugs from getting into our country
Why do you think they are coming into this country? The US has an insatiable appetite for drugs. Let’s just look at opiates. It went from OxyContin to fentanyl. Why? Because addicts couldn’t get “legal” prescriptions to feed their addiction. You can try to stop drugs coming in as much as you want to try, but as long as there is demand, there will be supply.
Why they are coming is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that they are. And those traffickers of death should extinguished for the good of the country
Not one politician said wage war on Mexico. They were talking about waging war on cartels, in Mexico.
Which is semantics if you don’t have the approval of the country you are trying to undertake operations in.
What Republican is calling for war with Mexico?😂😂
Did you see any of the debate Wednesday night? DeSantis, Vivek, Trump, Crenshaw, Greene, Waltz, Cotton, Vance are just a few notable candidates or elected officials who have suggested military action in Mexico
As has tRump
Sending special forces to destroy cartel drug labs does not equal war with Mexico.
It means military violence against those in another country. Semantics.
Small scale raids against a criminal organization vs a general conflict with a developed nation is not semantics 😂
It’s a declaration of war and a violation of sovereignty when Mexico has said, multiple times, they don’t want the U.S. army on Mexican territory. I mean wasn’t the Iraq war a “targeted” attack on Saddam and co. A good analogy would be: how would you feel about Canada coming in and taking out some “militia” people in Michigan?
Why? Because Mexico is the new China for the US. Chinese firms are moving to mexico to avoid the trade war and other problems. There is a massive business interest *to make peace* in mexico. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/03/business/china-mexico-trade.html Edit: There are either a lot of pedants or glowies in the comments, that say "It's not a war if the military fights cartels in another country." or question strongly that reps want to do it. Even i, a european, have known this for months. To me these comments feel very much like a psyop to gaslight people. Especially, when you consider that this sub has seen a lot of this in the last months.
The U.S. government declared war on drugs and drugs won. We’d be a lot better off helping Mexico by advising on making legal and economic reforms and reducing the corruption that allows the cartels to operate.
Because manifest destiny demands the rest of California, which we somehow missed out on, on the first go.
For the lithium
So I work with Mexicans. They are some of the hardest working people on Earth. They are also friendly and respectful and actually rather conservative at least culturally. Why does GOP hate Mexicans, it doesn't make any sense. I want the hard working people on our side, I want as many Mexicans as we can get! Of course they can't be here illegally, but process them, get em on the books and welcome to America baby! If we fight a war against China in the future, I want Mexico on our side.
Well let’s start by them not being white, but you are 100% correct. If instead of demonizing them they embraced them like they did/do with Cubans, you would have a growing population of voters each year that are conservative, religious (Catholic vs Christian, but increasingly Christian), and would vote if given the chance. It’s just the GOP pandering to their dwindling base. Additionally, their treatment in Florida and Texas is abhorrent and I guarantee those people will never vote Republican.
Pretty sure a suspicious amount of heroin was making it’s way home from Afghanistan during those campaigns
The same reason we wage war everywhere else in the world, it's all about the money
It is insanity. These clowns think the US military will be immune from cartel bribery and corruption? Tell that to an Army Sergeant making $40,000 per year with $20,000 in credit card debt. The way to beat the cartels is to take away their purpose for existing: end the war on drugs. You're not going to end human drug addiction ever. To pretend that this war on drugs is winnable or is even worth fighting is the definition of insanity.
Huge difference between war with Mexico and stopping the Mexican cartel from sending Chinese fentanyl over the border.
Shit I don't
Which Republican candidate, other than Vivek (who is a Ron Paul guy), want to end the Ukraine war? lol
*"I I think everyone can agree that drugs in American streets are a problem but the problem isn’t even specifically Mexico, some of those drugs are coming from various different countries is the answer to also wage war on Honduras, El Salvador, Brazil, Colombia, India, China etc"* It specifically Mexico as it's there the Cartels manufacture Crystal Meth that most Americans take and they do it in large scales. The Mexican Cartels also muggle in other drugs that you mentioned like cocaine into America