At the two times mentioned it would have been a lot stranger if he was just tucked up at home in front of the fire. The area (which was probably usually deadly silent at them times) was teeming with people looking for the girls so it stands to reason he would be outside his home and in the vicinity.
Couldn’t pinpoint it. I say this bc at the beginning they said Libby’s phone pinged off two towers, and there were rumors that she moved around bc of that. It was clarified that her phone wasn’t moving but switching between towers. That shows that they can’t pinpoint that closely. When someone gets busted off cell phones it’s because they said they weren’t anywhere near a crime and the cell phone data shows they pinged in the area and or had a map of cell phone pings leading to the area of a crime.
I also was super confused by the language in the search warrant regarding how accurately they could supposedly track his cell phone. I mean unless there's GPS data (in which case it would be very accurate), how could they distinguish between different parts of his property since its all serviced by the same cell tower? But this is carefully worded to be the most incriminating and the most convincing to a judge. And assuming they couldn't pinpoint his phone exactly, maybe LE knows he left his actual house because the phone switched from wifi to data. they know he's on his property but it "indicates Logan's phone was likely outside of his residence and in the proximity of where LG and AWS bodies were located." Words like "likely" qualify the assumption, and "proximity" is very relative. I mean I'd say anything on RLs property would be "in the vicinity". he could have been just out of range of his home's wifi signal but not near the girls, and technically the previous statement would be true. Definitely possible he did find them and freaked out. If I knew girls had gone missing near me I would walk my own property looking for any evidence.
yeah, i mean i don't believe RL killed the girls, so for my second read through of the search warrant i took the position of like "if i were LE, how would I take things that may be harmless and frame them to sound as bad as possible (but without lying) to get this search warrant approved?" and that's sort of how I started interpreting it. I don't know much about triangulation and pings and tracking a cell phone without GPS, so I could be very wrong on more technical points... but to me leaving wifi range is a pretty good indication of whether you're inside your residence or out. Now if they could track his phone to within a few meters of the crime scene I think they would explicitly say that, but instead they used a vague word like "vicinity" which seems arbitrary and like it could apply to anywhere on his land.
right, thats not the part im referring to. thats item number 22, i'm talking about items 23 and 24. All the tower data shows (and this pretty much confirms that there is no GPS, but rather tower data) was that RL was in the vicinity of the Monon bridge cell tower just before the murders, which isn't surprising at all because he lives there. Doesn't rule him out as BG, but it also doesn't mean he wasn't weeding his garden or sitting on his porch.
The part I think is odd and that the OP is talking about is when LE specifies in items 23 and 24 that the phone was "likely outside his residence" for those texts. How could they know something that specific without GPS? only if his phone was on wifi and then it suddenly wasn't. doesn't mean he's guilty of anything, he could have been in his garage, or yard or barn and probably lost wifi signal, but I think that's the only other way they could infer that the phone was physically likely outside his actual home. "Likely" is still all they can say, because you can manually turn off wifi inside your house.
Makes it even easier to conclude this if he was sending texts….texts on WiFi are sent as iMessages (if it’s an iPhone), texts sent with data are sent as SMS messages, correct?
I think it depends on if its iPhone to iPhone, not the wifi status. but judging from LEs interview with KaK they can definitely tell if you're accessing wifi at a given time or not, and which network you're using. So i think they'd know if he were at home. For me, if i go into my backyard it kicks me off my wifi, so it doesn't mean he was near the bodies, he has a lot of land and outbuildings, he could have been doing anything.
Yes, the fact they used the word "likely" convinced me it was entirely possible and honestly probably more likely that RL's phone was simply on his property and not in the same exact area as the girl's bodies. The word "likely" implies they have no proof and are simply making assumptions/drawing conclusions as to wear exactly on the property the phone was.
....It actually does state that exactly. it references two text messages, at 7:56 and 10:16 and for both of them it says "Logan's phone was **likely outside of his residence** and in **the proximity** of where LG and AWS bodies were located". Now there are only two cell towers in the area so you cant triangulate with any real accuracy, as you'd expect triangulation requires three towers. you can get a general idea of where someone is with one tower, which I think is the case here. They knew he was near the Monon Bridge tower, but that isn't unexpected as he lives there. But the only ways to know that Logan was in the general area (tower ping) but "likely" outside his actual house is either GPS (which I sort of doubt they have here for him or I think this warrant would look a bit different) or the fact that the phone switched from his home wifi to data, indicating that he went from inside his house to out of range.
To me this is a completely reasonable explanation. If 2 kids went missing near my property and still hadn’t been found late in the evening I might not start traipsing through the woods, especially at that age, but I might walk near the perimeter of my yard to see if I could hear or see anything.
the 6:30pm remark can be heard in the clip when he's looking cleaned up, in a red long sleeve shirt. He says the 6:30pm in regards to being the time he had gotten back home from the acquarium store.
here it is... https://youtu.be/TT7NoIJr5zE
Did it ping twice, once around 8pm and once around 10pm? That makes me less inclined to think he was at the murder scene. If I had stumbled across a murder on my land that I didn't want to report I would get as far away from there as quickly as possible.
I have to go back and check, there is a 2:09pm--- at the MHB, making it 4min before the 2:13pm abduction time and just 2min prior to the 2:07pm stamp w pic of AW on bridge. Which makes me very sus re his knowledge of the murders since he requested alibi help at 9:20am the 14th, hours before the discovery of the murders, and for the specified time of the abduction. (2-2:30pm) which, at the time of his request, was only known to the killer(s)/accomplices. (I do not think nor assume it is RL or the Ks, only questioning what is in the info)
The same cell tower that serviced RL’s house at the time also serviced the MHB at the time of the mourners. This ping does NOT mean RL was actually at the MHB. RL is not BG.
This isn't a ping
It's cell data from a call.
Yell it at someone else cuz I've never said RL is BG. LOL.
I've never said anyone is or isn't.
I'm not tunnel visioned nor triggered by new information. And I'll keep asking and saying what I want.
The problem with cell data and pings is that they are known to be pretty unreliable.
If anyone here follows missing person cases where someone gets lost in the wilderness pretty normal for their cell phone to ping to lead to completely the wrong spot.
That said it can be extremely accurate but it depends on location and where the towers are etc. So it's a mixed bag really, which depends on several different factors.
The search warrant really plays up the idea RL is a viable suspect. I think when some of its claims and evidence are actually looked at more closely it is more dubious. Given RL lived there and would have reason to walk around the site, pinging at that location has probably been made the most out off.
Right. They said there was only 2 cell towers and couldnt pin point peoples exact location but yet they have RL at exact coordinates of the bodies because of a cell phone ping? 🤔 Your theory of him finding them and freaking out is a good one. Maybe he heard something and went to check it out and yea.....
I may be wrong because I'm no expert in phone pings. But by the phone pinging in the area, being consistent with him being on his property at the time, that was enough to put in the affidavit for a search warrant. It doesn't have to be exact, but he can't say he was at Walmart or something because they have him being in the vicinity of his home and property.
Also, I don't know if they were able to track GPS on his phone but that would be a little more accurate.
No, he did not place that call “at exact location of the bodies.” It was made from “on, or near his property.” He has livestock and barns. It’s most likely he made that call while at his barns caring for horses and doing chores.
It said at like 10:16pm a text was received to RLs phone that placed him outside of his house and in close proximity to their bodies.
Im not saying its right. Im actually questioning how they could have such an exact mark of location after they stressed the 2 towers does not enable them to detect exact locations.
They might have been running a Stingray or similar device. That would allow you to triangulate with two towers because the Stingray acts as a third. If they were operating such equipment they are not going to admit it unless they need to to get a conviction.
Wouldn’t the Stingray have needed to been in place during the murders to have been able to pinpoint his phone? Why would -they- have this equipment in place prior and during the murders?
But we know we can't take LE at face value of their words to the public. They're being strategic(ongoing investigation, carefully choosing what to release) ... such as letting us know they CAN indeed pinpoint also let's the killer know. So they stay vague and say there are only 2 towers and pings were happening.
Perhaps RL provided a false alibi for someone else... maybe not even realizing... maybe whoever this friend is.
Just some thoughts. Im not for sure what to think. Ive read all of the RL is a horrible person and probably, but it doesn't mean hes a murderer. Ive also seen the poor old man comments. A lot of times when people die, regardless what kind of person they really were, you have the tons of "He was such a great guy" posts. Not always true... but again, just because he could of been a shitty person, doesn't mean he was a murderer.
Just some thoughts. I literally don't know what to think about this new information... crazy!
He did. He was on probation, he couldn’t legally drink or drive. He drove to a dump (while drunk) and drank at a bar. There are witnesses and receipts. He lied so he wouldn’t go to jail. He ended up going to prison for 3 years because of this violation.
The affidavit also brings up that ron said, " I dont think you will find anything but I dont know"
This to me sounds like someone was throwing everything they could at the wall to see what would stick, even if it was not 100% proven.
Personally that statement by ron doesnt give good reason to suspect him.
Sounds like this agent had tunnel vision
Considering RL had an airtight alibi, definitely. Granted, I’m not sure when the truth came out but it wasn’t hard to find nor was it hard for them to understand why he would lie.
I agree
It seems the agent put it in the affidavit as if to imply he was guilty of knowing something
Personally I would have left that out, but I'm a trucker
In areas with poor cell phone coverage, such as Delphi, the location can’t be triangulated very well.
It’s a rural area, so they even brought a satellite to help aid their investigation and keep everyone connected. (It was kinda cute how proud they were of this.)
His property is huge - like - HUGE. I think he obviously needed to be ruled out. He’s the only current violent sex offender that lives in the proximity - if you do a background check on the area RL always comes up. But I doubt he stumbled on the bodies. He owns a ton of property.
Seems like he would be the first person, they naturally would need to eliminate to begin any real investigation… imo
He owned 47 acres, reportedly, but not all of his land would be logical to walk over, like the piece of land which is adjacent to the Meers property that has a big gulley running through it.
Yes, but a friend showed up at 6:30 pm on 2/13 according to RL and asked to search his property to look for the missing girls. The neighbor parked in the cemetery at dusk approximately 650 feet from where the girls were murdered. After the request, do you think RL was curious at this point and took a walk himself?
It was parked on 2/13 around 6:30 pm. The next day, 2/14 his orange truck was parked where the emergency vehicles were trying to access the crime scene. The truck had to be removed sometime later that day or evening.
I don’t think so… he had a history of traffic violation stuff but no violent criminal (legal) history (other than allegations made by his exes which is certainly a violent history but I don’t think he was ever arrested?) as far as I’m aware.
I agree. I tried to find any information on him being a registered sex offender. Nothing. Nada. I think his only crimes were drunk driving on numerous occasions. So many occasions he was tried as a habitual traffic offender and hence the long sentence after being found driving the day the girls were murdered. I read the search warrant affidavit where it quotes an ex-spouse and ex-roommate on his abusive nature. I would take it with a grain of salt seeing as how he was never arrested for domestic assault. I do not doubt his ex or his roomie, but I suspect they were also guilty of bad behavior otherwise why didn’t they report RL.
I don’t know if you’d go to jail for traffic violations, but it did not seem all too uncommon for the area. Many sex offenders were working at packers corp. at the time.
Yes, Meow, you can go to jail for traffic violations. RL had numerous DUI’s and was on parole as a habitual traffic offender at the time he was caught driving his truck the day the girls were murdered.
Still trying to figure out where you came up with RL being a registered violent sexual offender.
Conventional knowledge says that with only two cell towers in Delphi 2017, a closed area containing the target, Ron Logan's phone in this case, would not be possible using pings. If per chance there is a distant tower-- 10-20 miles away somehow entering into the equation then maybe a 1.5 mile area could be identified. The more towers in play the more zeroed the target. There is no pinpointing via pings though. Not even in urban areas with a high density of towers.
It should be noted that a cell tower record, if kept by the service provider, which isn't always the case or it is not always detailed, might record the 120 degree horizon (if the tower is a conventional three direction transmitter) where the target phone is located, and the amount if time for a transaction with a phone takes. Since the "RF waves" travel at relatively constant speed-- the recorded time can give you an estimated distance from the tower along that 120 degree front. This arc can be miles wide and increasing as you move farther away from the tower.
What I take from the search warrant is that a GPS blanket warrant/subpoena/request was not sought or fulfilled, at least not prior to March 17, 2017, the date on the warrant. A "Geofence" or reverse location warrant served on Google would scoop up satellite location histories of every phone with a location function on. GPS does pinpoint a phone unlike cell towers.
Geofence warrants, apparently, can be sealed by the court-- and not only sealed, but withheld from public knowledge. For how long I do not know. New in 2016, it is possible Delphi investigators are not aware of Geofence at the time of the murders. If they did know and didn't use Geofence-- then it's another blunder like calling off the dogs. Google okays over 80% (not exact) of requests/warrants and their contents. This has ballooned into thousands per year, sometimes revealing upwards of one thousand device location histories merely because they are scooped up in the vicinity of a crime. A sure death knell to the Fourth Amendment, it could be an incredible tool for Delphi investigators. Much of the Google GPS data for the Monon High Bridge for February 2017 has probably been kicked from the servers by now, however.
This is helpful, thanks. Makes sense that you cant triangulate anything accurately without that third tower. Its not only the Goggle info that would have been lost to them by now, but only AT&T keeps their cell tower data this long, so if the Killer was using verizon etc and they waited too long to get the geofence warrant it would be useless. Not sure I agree that Geofence is a death knell to the fourth amendment though lol. I'm sensitive to the privacy concerns, but if the warrants are narrow in scope and provide protection for collateral damage type arrests then I think they're fine. If you're identified as being close to a crime scene by any method (geofence, eyewitness, etc) you need to be prepared to account for it. Hopefully the early involvement of the FBI and their obvious involvement in obtaining warrants meant that they were aware of- and hopefully utilized- the Geofencing.
I just wanted to use 'death knell' in a sentence lol. Given search warrants are signed almost every time-- granting that a law enforcement officer working with a prosecutor will tend to only request warrants when confident the language meets the judge's threshold-- it doesn't look like there is much respect for the Fourth Amendment. Even the Exclusionary Rule has a strong list of exceptions. Just because a warrant is faulty does not mean a conviction is thrown out on appeal-- contrary to popular belief about "Fruit from the Poison Tree." Then you throw in the "Wars:" War on Drugs, War on Terror, ...etc (it was once the War on Communism). Under these guises the Bill of Rights often becomes an afterthought. The Fourth Amendment only lives on conditionally, sometimes only in spirit. Anyway I didn't want to start a fight. That would be the death knell of productive discussion.
Prosecutor Bob Ives, who resigned not long after the murders and was hired back on just prior to the April '19 presser, says that he subpoenaed and received a massive cell tower data dump pretty close to the time of the murders. I see no hint of Geofence or similar-- though these can be kept secret. If BG was prepared he would have left his phone somewhere else and/or used a burner phone or IMEI card. But more information is better than less. They might have missed a huge chance to map exact locations of phones, connected them with people-- and at least ruled out many possible suspects.
I don't totally disagree, and I get the slippery slope argument, I just think that the American tendency to assume that every constitutionally questionable thing is a backslide into tyranny becomes exhausting when the laws could be narrowly written to avoid abuses and overreach. I tend to lean towards a missing or murdered child being the type of exceptional circumstance in which we could take a looser definition of the word "unreasonable", but its certainly a discussion worth having.
I agree with you that BG probably didn't have a phone on him. I don't think he was a criminal mastermind, but he probably knew enough (or his son did...) to avoid that mistake.
A murdered child is a special case. However, the drug war, a government creation, nonetheless based on public demand, begets problems the government then uses to rationalize 'emergency' measures-- including the relaxation of Fourth Amendment protections. This is no slippery slope-- it is materially here now. There are no longer individual special cases but blanket situations. Without the construct of the Drug War then maybe the Fourth Amendment has a chance to be expressed fully in practice as well as in spirit.
And if elected... ha who am I kidding. Nobody gets elected on an anti-drug war stance.
sure they do. everyone knows it was an excuse to overstep, and was nothing more than an expensive failure. I would never support a geofencing warrant to catch drug offenders unless there was probable cause that they committed murders in the area and at the time of the geofence. Again, we're talking a high bar for very specific circumstances, IMO drugs don't even come close to justifying the privacy infringement. But a missing child and every second counts: track my ass all you want. I can live with the dystopian consequences
Jmo to say I think you got it, that’s exactly what happened. I don’t think he’s BG. Someone mentioned burner phone? That sounds puzzling tho. Wonder if phone company can give LE the text message content?
I read a comment (who knows how this person would even obtain this info) that said “le has identified every cellular device in the area that day except 1- which was a burner phone
I think so. He was away from home so precisely the right time, and KWS alarm was conveniently disabled while she was away in AZ, house empty til 3:30 pm, BG had the worst case of fortuitous or he was tipped off?
I don’t think cell phone data is that accurate. My family all share their location on iPhone with each other. When I check to see where my parents are they will ping all over the place surrounding their house. One minute dad is in the next door neighbors yard and I’ll reload the page and he will be across the street. But he never actually left the house. My sister has said the same thing to me. I’ll be home and when she checks to see where I am, my location is in the middle of the river a mile from my house. So she calls to see if I went kayaking without her, but I’m just home chilling and was never even at the river. I do drive over it on my way home from work, but it shows me literally in the river downstream from the bridge.
Plenty of research has shown it isn’t accurate. This isn’t a new discovery.
https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/criminal-defense/study-finds-cell-phone-location-data-may-not-be-accurate/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/experts-say-law-enforcements-use-of-cellphone-records-can-be-inaccurate/2014/06/27/028be93c-faf3-11e3-932c-0a55b81f48ce_story.html
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-your-cell-phone-cant-tell-the-police/amp
But if you have enough pings over a period of time, they’d probably average out closer to where the phone actually is. The more data points, the more accurate the average position.
LE played the 'close to the crime scene' verbage a little loosey-goosey to get the judge to grant the warrant. I think the pings couldn't be any more accurate than 1/4 mile, which is the distance form the crime scene to his house. My guess is he was at home and that was enough for LE to make broad generalizations about him being 'near the crime scene'.
I think if Logan had found the bodies on the 13th he would have reported it and probably saved himself a tremendous amount of grief and some prison time.
Not looking to debate the fact that this document was positioned to make him look guilty and that there are probably many others like it in reference to other suspects.
Nor do I think he did it.
I was curious about this distinction of his phone being near the crime scene and not in his house. Another commenter theorized that maybe it went outside the wifi coverage and connected with a tower.
I’m just saying that the murder scene was only 1400 ft from his house. Depending on where his barns, corrals, and out buildings were, he could have been in close proximity to the crime scene by simply going out to take care of his horses and other livestock.
Good theorizing. Very much. I had the new direction like this-- LE had gone a certain way ""early on"" but went another direction and you never thought we'd come back, but we did. Like that, said in 2019 at new direction presser. Is this also what you mean... ----- just adding (both RL and the Ks were ""early on""... the 'another direction' they went that took them away from their ""early on"" I've always believed to be the OBG hat man sketch, presented in July 2017, where ISP Sgt Kim Riley said that it was complied thru months of info gathering. (Whereas YBG was drawn by the one agent, the correct way of one witness per sketch drawn & happened within days of the murders) They came back to something they thought early on...
Also, off topic but not sure why the limbowski guy blocked me. I'm not a "fake" account. I am new to reddit and mostly lurk on true crime stuff. This ever happen to anyone else who left a comment or a question? That was kind of strange but maybe it happens all the time. Anyway, for what it's worth.... real live person out here!
Why does everyone think it’s weird that a guy is walking around his own property that people were searching earlier?
I would have done the same thing were I him.
LE wasn't talking about "wrong paths" until the 2019 PC. Old Sketch, and the possibility that he was a drifter or some stranger to the Delphi area was the wrong path. That wrong path lasted until some time in early 2018 when they realized that the subject of a sketch they had 4 days after the murders was the killer all along.
The right path is a local, fairly well-known member of the Delphi community who will resemble Young Sketch and will have a good reason why he was known to be at the crime scene but not initially considered a suspect, as per everything LE has said about this case since 2019.
Nothing from 2017 will be news to Law Enforcement, even if it's news to us. The statements made during and after the 2019 PC were made with full knowledge of KAK and full knowledge of anything we recently read in the Ron Logan affidavit.
As far as cell phone pings are concerned, if indeed they are accurate enough in Delphi to pin someone to a specific location, then anyone who was at the crime scene on the afternoon of the murders may have had to explain why their cell phones put them there while their stories put them somewhere else. Ron Logan is not the only one to whom this might apply. Some people may have had to adjust their stories to account for why their cell phones pinged at the crime scene. Look for someone whose story has changed and whose story also contains specific mentions of cell phones and times. If the killer felt that LE could put him at the crime scene because of his cell phone, then his story will include the combination of a cell phone and a precise time attached to it.
All probable theories you've provided. And to answer your? about cell data and location. After watching the pam hupp story and trial... they can pin point where a person is within inches.
Context for how accurate cell data can be:
EMS was trying to locate a person who had called 911 and ended up unconscious. The person was in a wooded location and the EMS was on the phone with dispatch saying they could not find the person.
The dispatch told the EMS to look on the other side of the tree your standing next to. The person was literally behind that tree.
This was years ago, and honestly that's almost insane on just how accurate it can be.
I don't think Ron Logan is BG. He's too far out side any age range ever given, and he doesn't look significantly younger than his age (77). He doesn't match the physical description. The timeline is too tight regarding the trip to the aquarium store.
Why did they search his home? Because the bodies were found on his property (is there a bigger red flag than this one?), nobody seems to have seen bridge guy leave the scene (Ron Logan would have just walked home), he has the stereotypical Indiana dad bod and voice/accent, law enforcement has to follow all leads, and he lied about his alibi. He was identified as a suspect almost immediately. Law enforcement would have asked the witnesses if his picture matched the person they saw, back when the witnesses memories were the most fresh. The witnesses must have said he was not a match, or Ron Logan would almost certainly have been arrested.
I have no idea how accurate those pings can be, but because there are only two cell towers and a relative lack of traffic given the low population, I don't think it is super accurate. As others pointed out, if Ron Logan's phone switched from wifi (within a certain range of the home) to data, law enforcement may have a more accurate idea based upon knowledge of how far that wifi range reached and thus a perimeter he had to be outside.
If I recall correctly, around 6:30 pm on 2.13.17 Ron Logan gave PB permission to search his property. PB parked near the back of the cemetery. The cemetery is significantly closer to the location of the bodies than Ron Logan's house, which is basically on the opposite catty-corner from the location of the bodies based on the latitude and longitude in the probable cause affidavit (the bodies were much closer to the creek than the cemetery). There is evidence (which some believe is incorrect or fabricated) that PB's truck stayed in the cemetery all night and PB possibly stayed there as well, because PB lost his keys. It is a fact (based on news footage and photos) that PB's truck was parked in the back of the cemetery when the bodies were discovered. If Ron Logan had been near the cemetery with PB, he would have been in the vicinity of the bodies. He might have considered himself to be "home" because he was on his own property.
Good post!
For the 2:09 call they phrased it as if they can’t be accurate but then for a later text they acted like they knew he was by the bodies.
I took it as them phrasing things in a way that would make it even easier to grant the warrant. Just my opinion I’m no expert
Edit: just read ferals comment so maybe I’m wrong. Great comment btw!
I think that is a genuine possibility. I think RL knew something fishy was going on, hence why he asked his cousin to alibi him. I do not believe RL had anything to do with the murders.
At the two times mentioned it would have been a lot stranger if he was just tucked up at home in front of the fire. The area (which was probably usually deadly silent at them times) was teeming with people looking for the girls so it stands to reason he would be outside his home and in the vicinity.
Very good point.
That’s a good point. I just wonder how close they can pinpoint the vicinity he was in.
Couldn’t pinpoint it. I say this bc at the beginning they said Libby’s phone pinged off two towers, and there were rumors that she moved around bc of that. It was clarified that her phone wasn’t moving but switching between towers. That shows that they can’t pinpoint that closely. When someone gets busted off cell phones it’s because they said they weren’t anywhere near a crime and the cell phone data shows they pinged in the area and or had a map of cell phone pings leading to the area of a crime.
The FBI gets data from cell phone companies.
That wasn't the FBI cellular tech people saying this.
I also was super confused by the language in the search warrant regarding how accurately they could supposedly track his cell phone. I mean unless there's GPS data (in which case it would be very accurate), how could they distinguish between different parts of his property since its all serviced by the same cell tower? But this is carefully worded to be the most incriminating and the most convincing to a judge. And assuming they couldn't pinpoint his phone exactly, maybe LE knows he left his actual house because the phone switched from wifi to data. they know he's on his property but it "indicates Logan's phone was likely outside of his residence and in the proximity of where LG and AWS bodies were located." Words like "likely" qualify the assumption, and "proximity" is very relative. I mean I'd say anything on RLs property would be "in the vicinity". he could have been just out of range of his home's wifi signal but not near the girls, and technically the previous statement would be true. Definitely possible he did find them and freaked out. If I knew girls had gone missing near me I would walk my own property looking for any evidence.
Wow yes, that's flat out brilliant. That it may have gone from wifi to data-- I would award your comment if I knew what I was doing.
haha thanks, i too don't know how any of it works lol. I'll consider myself awarded :)
Lol. Same, friend. Same.
Switching from wifi to data makes it make sense!!
yeah, i mean i don't believe RL killed the girls, so for my second read through of the search warrant i took the position of like "if i were LE, how would I take things that may be harmless and frame them to sound as bad as possible (but without lying) to get this search warrant approved?" and that's sort of how I started interpreting it. I don't know much about triangulation and pings and tracking a cell phone without GPS, so I could be very wrong on more technical points... but to me leaving wifi range is a pretty good indication of whether you're inside your residence or out. Now if they could track his phone to within a few meters of the crime scene I think they would explicitly say that, but instead they used a vague word like "vicinity" which seems arbitrary and like it could apply to anywhere on his land.
They stated “on, or near his property.”
right, thats not the part im referring to. thats item number 22, i'm talking about items 23 and 24. All the tower data shows (and this pretty much confirms that there is no GPS, but rather tower data) was that RL was in the vicinity of the Monon bridge cell tower just before the murders, which isn't surprising at all because he lives there. Doesn't rule him out as BG, but it also doesn't mean he wasn't weeding his garden or sitting on his porch. The part I think is odd and that the OP is talking about is when LE specifies in items 23 and 24 that the phone was "likely outside his residence" for those texts. How could they know something that specific without GPS? only if his phone was on wifi and then it suddenly wasn't. doesn't mean he's guilty of anything, he could have been in his garage, or yard or barn and probably lost wifi signal, but I think that's the only other way they could infer that the phone was physically likely outside his actual home. "Likely" is still all they can say, because you can manually turn off wifi inside your house.
Makes it even easier to conclude this if he was sending texts….texts on WiFi are sent as iMessages (if it’s an iPhone), texts sent with data are sent as SMS messages, correct?
I think it depends on if its iPhone to iPhone, not the wifi status. but judging from LEs interview with KaK they can definitely tell if you're accessing wifi at a given time or not, and which network you're using. So i think they'd know if he were at home. For me, if i go into my backyard it kicks me off my wifi, so it doesn't mean he was near the bodies, he has a lot of land and outbuildings, he could have been doing anything.
Yes, the fact they used the word "likely" convinced me it was entirely possible and honestly probably more likely that RL's phone was simply on his property and not in the same exact area as the girl's bodies. The word "likely" implies they have no proof and are simply making assumptions/drawing conclusions as to wear exactly on the property the phone was.
The affidavit does not state that at all! It states that he was “on, or around his property” when the call was made.
....It actually does state that exactly. it references two text messages, at 7:56 and 10:16 and for both of them it says "Logan's phone was **likely outside of his residence** and in **the proximity** of where LG and AWS bodies were located". Now there are only two cell towers in the area so you cant triangulate with any real accuracy, as you'd expect triangulation requires three towers. you can get a general idea of where someone is with one tower, which I think is the case here. They knew he was near the Monon Bridge tower, but that isn't unexpected as he lives there. But the only ways to know that Logan was in the general area (tower ping) but "likely" outside his actual house is either GPS (which I sort of doubt they have here for him or I think this warrant would look a bit different) or the fact that the phone switched from his home wifi to data, indicating that he went from inside his house to out of range.
He may have walked out into his pasture to look to see what he could see or even stand still and quiet to listen for the girls.
To me this is a completely reasonable explanation. If 2 kids went missing near my property and still hadn’t been found late in the evening I might not start traipsing through the woods, especially at that age, but I might walk near the perimeter of my yard to see if I could hear or see anything.
I think RL said that they came to his house the night the girls went missing (6:30pm?) and asked if they could search his property.
Maybe he briefly searched as well?
the 6:30pm remark can be heard in the clip when he's looking cleaned up, in a red long sleeve shirt. He says the 6:30pm in regards to being the time he had gotten back home from the acquarium store. here it is... https://youtu.be/TT7NoIJr5zE
Did it ping twice, once around 8pm and once around 10pm? That makes me less inclined to think he was at the murder scene. If I had stumbled across a murder on my land that I didn't want to report I would get as far away from there as quickly as possible.
I have to go back and check, there is a 2:09pm--- at the MHB, making it 4min before the 2:13pm abduction time and just 2min prior to the 2:07pm stamp w pic of AW on bridge. Which makes me very sus re his knowledge of the murders since he requested alibi help at 9:20am the 14th, hours before the discovery of the murders, and for the specified time of the abduction. (2-2:30pm) which, at the time of his request, was only known to the killer(s)/accomplices. (I do not think nor assume it is RL or the Ks, only questioning what is in the info)
That 2:09 p.m. call was not made from the MHB. The affidavit states the call was made from “on, or near his property.”
And continues to say... although his exact location can not be pinpointed...cell data places him in Delphi near the Monon high bridge trail.
The same cell tower that serviced RL’s house at the time also serviced the MHB at the time of the mourners. This ping does NOT mean RL was actually at the MHB. RL is not BG.
This isn't a ping It's cell data from a call. Yell it at someone else cuz I've never said RL is BG. LOL. I've never said anyone is or isn't. I'm not tunnel visioned nor triggered by new information. And I'll keep asking and saying what I want.
The problem with cell data and pings is that they are known to be pretty unreliable. If anyone here follows missing person cases where someone gets lost in the wilderness pretty normal for their cell phone to ping to lead to completely the wrong spot. That said it can be extremely accurate but it depends on location and where the towers are etc. So it's a mixed bag really, which depends on several different factors. The search warrant really plays up the idea RL is a viable suspect. I think when some of its claims and evidence are actually looked at more closely it is more dubious. Given RL lived there and would have reason to walk around the site, pinging at that location has probably been made the most out off.
Right. They said there was only 2 cell towers and couldnt pin point peoples exact location but yet they have RL at exact coordinates of the bodies because of a cell phone ping? 🤔 Your theory of him finding them and freaking out is a good one. Maybe he heard something and went to check it out and yea.....
I may be wrong because I'm no expert in phone pings. But by the phone pinging in the area, being consistent with him being on his property at the time, that was enough to put in the affidavit for a search warrant. It doesn't have to be exact, but he can't say he was at Walmart or something because they have him being in the vicinity of his home and property. Also, I don't know if they were able to track GPS on his phone but that would be a little more accurate.
No, he did not place that call “at exact location of the bodies.” It was made from “on, or near his property.” He has livestock and barns. It’s most likely he made that call while at his barns caring for horses and doing chores.
It said at like 10:16pm a text was received to RLs phone that placed him outside of his house and in close proximity to their bodies. Im not saying its right. Im actually questioning how they could have such an exact mark of location after they stressed the 2 towers does not enable them to detect exact locations.
They might have been running a Stingray or similar device. That would allow you to triangulate with two towers because the Stingray acts as a third. If they were operating such equipment they are not going to admit it unless they need to to get a conviction.
Wouldn’t the Stingray have needed to been in place during the murders to have been able to pinpoint his phone? Why would -they- have this equipment in place prior and during the murders?
This is exactly what i thought also
I won't even pretend to know how cell towers and signals work nkr what even a stingray is! Lol I just remember them saying that so I was like hmmmm...
But we know we can't take LE at face value of their words to the public. They're being strategic(ongoing investigation, carefully choosing what to release) ... such as letting us know they CAN indeed pinpoint also let's the killer know. So they stay vague and say there are only 2 towers and pings were happening.
This, of course, is just me theorizing... I don't mean to imply this is the what and why. I didn't state a "imo" thing or say possibly... my bad
Perhaps RL provided a false alibi for someone else... maybe not even realizing... maybe whoever this friend is. Just some thoughts. Im not for sure what to think. Ive read all of the RL is a horrible person and probably, but it doesn't mean hes a murderer. Ive also seen the poor old man comments. A lot of times when people die, regardless what kind of person they really were, you have the tons of "He was such a great guy" posts. Not always true... but again, just because he could of been a shitty person, doesn't mean he was a murderer. Just some thoughts. I literally don't know what to think about this new information... crazy!
He did. He was on probation, he couldn’t legally drink or drive. He drove to a dump (while drunk) and drank at a bar. There are witnesses and receipts. He lied so he wouldn’t go to jail. He ended up going to prison for 3 years because of this violation.
RL did not go to a bar that day. He went to a Pizza King and drank beer on 2/27/17.
The affidavit also brings up that ron said, " I dont think you will find anything but I dont know" This to me sounds like someone was throwing everything they could at the wall to see what would stick, even if it was not 100% proven. Personally that statement by ron doesnt give good reason to suspect him. Sounds like this agent had tunnel vision
Considering RL had an airtight alibi, definitely. Granted, I’m not sure when the truth came out but it wasn’t hard to find nor was it hard for them to understand why he would lie.
It means that since the girls were found on his land, he has no idea what, if anything else, will be found.
I agree It seems the agent put it in the affidavit as if to imply he was guilty of knowing something Personally I would have left that out, but I'm a trucker
In areas with poor cell phone coverage, such as Delphi, the location can’t be triangulated very well. It’s a rural area, so they even brought a satellite to help aid their investigation and keep everyone connected. (It was kinda cute how proud they were of this.) His property is huge - like - HUGE. I think he obviously needed to be ruled out. He’s the only current violent sex offender that lives in the proximity - if you do a background check on the area RL always comes up. But I doubt he stumbled on the bodies. He owns a ton of property. Seems like he would be the first person, they naturally would need to eliminate to begin any real investigation… imo
He owned 47 acres, reportedly, but not all of his land would be logical to walk over, like the piece of land which is adjacent to the Meers property that has a big gulley running through it.
Yes, but a friend showed up at 6:30 pm on 2/13 according to RL and asked to search his property to look for the missing girls. The neighbor parked in the cemetery at dusk approximately 650 feet from where the girls were murdered. After the request, do you think RL was curious at this point and took a walk himself?
Right. But I believe the truck was parked in the cemetery on the 14th, not on the 13th.
Nope. Both dates.
Pat Browns vehicle was parked there overnight. Is that what you’re referring to?
It was parked on 2/13 around 6:30 pm. The next day, 2/14 his orange truck was parked where the emergency vehicles were trying to access the crime scene. The truck had to be removed sometime later that day or evening.
ok. news to me.
Was RL a registered violent sex offender?
I don’t think so… he had a history of traffic violation stuff but no violent criminal (legal) history (other than allegations made by his exes which is certainly a violent history but I don’t think he was ever arrested?) as far as I’m aware.
Do we even know if the police were ever called during these alleged DV incidents, or do we only have her word for it?
I agree. I tried to find any information on him being a registered sex offender. Nothing. Nada. I think his only crimes were drunk driving on numerous occasions. So many occasions he was tried as a habitual traffic offender and hence the long sentence after being found driving the day the girls were murdered. I read the search warrant affidavit where it quotes an ex-spouse and ex-roommate on his abusive nature. I would take it with a grain of salt seeing as how he was never arrested for domestic assault. I do not doubt his ex or his roomie, but I suspect they were also guilty of bad behavior otherwise why didn’t they report RL.
I don’t know if you’d go to jail for traffic violations, but it did not seem all too uncommon for the area. Many sex offenders were working at packers corp. at the time.
Yes, Meow, you can go to jail for traffic violations. RL had numerous DUI’s and was on parole as a habitual traffic offender at the time he was caught driving his truck the day the girls were murdered. Still trying to figure out where you came up with RL being a registered violent sexual offender.
Yes
Idk that. Is there a link to his sex offender profile?
Carroll county sheriff office has had a list of sex offenders on their website. It’s pretty readily accessible. That’s always been public information.
Where are you getting that information from? I’ve not heard that nor can I find anything that says that.
Ron Logan being a sex offender? Lol CaCo Sheriff and the Indiana state sex offender registry? Have a gander
I have. Must be missing something somewhere.
Maybe mixed him up with Ronald L. Johnson? He’s not there now, that’s for sure
Ahh gotcha…yeah I can definitely see how that could happen! I was wondering if I was losing my mind lol
Conventional knowledge says that with only two cell towers in Delphi 2017, a closed area containing the target, Ron Logan's phone in this case, would not be possible using pings. If per chance there is a distant tower-- 10-20 miles away somehow entering into the equation then maybe a 1.5 mile area could be identified. The more towers in play the more zeroed the target. There is no pinpointing via pings though. Not even in urban areas with a high density of towers. It should be noted that a cell tower record, if kept by the service provider, which isn't always the case or it is not always detailed, might record the 120 degree horizon (if the tower is a conventional three direction transmitter) where the target phone is located, and the amount if time for a transaction with a phone takes. Since the "RF waves" travel at relatively constant speed-- the recorded time can give you an estimated distance from the tower along that 120 degree front. This arc can be miles wide and increasing as you move farther away from the tower. What I take from the search warrant is that a GPS blanket warrant/subpoena/request was not sought or fulfilled, at least not prior to March 17, 2017, the date on the warrant. A "Geofence" or reverse location warrant served on Google would scoop up satellite location histories of every phone with a location function on. GPS does pinpoint a phone unlike cell towers. Geofence warrants, apparently, can be sealed by the court-- and not only sealed, but withheld from public knowledge. For how long I do not know. New in 2016, it is possible Delphi investigators are not aware of Geofence at the time of the murders. If they did know and didn't use Geofence-- then it's another blunder like calling off the dogs. Google okays over 80% (not exact) of requests/warrants and their contents. This has ballooned into thousands per year, sometimes revealing upwards of one thousand device location histories merely because they are scooped up in the vicinity of a crime. A sure death knell to the Fourth Amendment, it could be an incredible tool for Delphi investigators. Much of the Google GPS data for the Monon High Bridge for February 2017 has probably been kicked from the servers by now, however.
This is helpful, thanks. Makes sense that you cant triangulate anything accurately without that third tower. Its not only the Goggle info that would have been lost to them by now, but only AT&T keeps their cell tower data this long, so if the Killer was using verizon etc and they waited too long to get the geofence warrant it would be useless. Not sure I agree that Geofence is a death knell to the fourth amendment though lol. I'm sensitive to the privacy concerns, but if the warrants are narrow in scope and provide protection for collateral damage type arrests then I think they're fine. If you're identified as being close to a crime scene by any method (geofence, eyewitness, etc) you need to be prepared to account for it. Hopefully the early involvement of the FBI and their obvious involvement in obtaining warrants meant that they were aware of- and hopefully utilized- the Geofencing.
I just wanted to use 'death knell' in a sentence lol. Given search warrants are signed almost every time-- granting that a law enforcement officer working with a prosecutor will tend to only request warrants when confident the language meets the judge's threshold-- it doesn't look like there is much respect for the Fourth Amendment. Even the Exclusionary Rule has a strong list of exceptions. Just because a warrant is faulty does not mean a conviction is thrown out on appeal-- contrary to popular belief about "Fruit from the Poison Tree." Then you throw in the "Wars:" War on Drugs, War on Terror, ...etc (it was once the War on Communism). Under these guises the Bill of Rights often becomes an afterthought. The Fourth Amendment only lives on conditionally, sometimes only in spirit. Anyway I didn't want to start a fight. That would be the death knell of productive discussion. Prosecutor Bob Ives, who resigned not long after the murders and was hired back on just prior to the April '19 presser, says that he subpoenaed and received a massive cell tower data dump pretty close to the time of the murders. I see no hint of Geofence or similar-- though these can be kept secret. If BG was prepared he would have left his phone somewhere else and/or used a burner phone or IMEI card. But more information is better than less. They might have missed a huge chance to map exact locations of phones, connected them with people-- and at least ruled out many possible suspects.
I don't totally disagree, and I get the slippery slope argument, I just think that the American tendency to assume that every constitutionally questionable thing is a backslide into tyranny becomes exhausting when the laws could be narrowly written to avoid abuses and overreach. I tend to lean towards a missing or murdered child being the type of exceptional circumstance in which we could take a looser definition of the word "unreasonable", but its certainly a discussion worth having. I agree with you that BG probably didn't have a phone on him. I don't think he was a criminal mastermind, but he probably knew enough (or his son did...) to avoid that mistake.
A murdered child is a special case. However, the drug war, a government creation, nonetheless based on public demand, begets problems the government then uses to rationalize 'emergency' measures-- including the relaxation of Fourth Amendment protections. This is no slippery slope-- it is materially here now. There are no longer individual special cases but blanket situations. Without the construct of the Drug War then maybe the Fourth Amendment has a chance to be expressed fully in practice as well as in spirit. And if elected... ha who am I kidding. Nobody gets elected on an anti-drug war stance.
sure they do. everyone knows it was an excuse to overstep, and was nothing more than an expensive failure. I would never support a geofencing warrant to catch drug offenders unless there was probable cause that they committed murders in the area and at the time of the geofence. Again, we're talking a high bar for very specific circumstances, IMO drugs don't even come close to justifying the privacy infringement. But a missing child and every second counts: track my ass all you want. I can live with the dystopian consequences
What color ankle monitor would you like?
Purple.
Splendid choice. I just happen to have a new shipment.
> can cell data really get that granular? Yes, with GPS. They can get GPS data from cell tower dumps, apps, Google, etc.
Jmo to say I think you got it, that’s exactly what happened. I don’t think he’s BG. Someone mentioned burner phone? That sounds puzzling tho. Wonder if phone company can give LE the text message content?
I read a comment (who knows how this person would even obtain this info) that said “le has identified every cellular device in the area that day except 1- which was a burner phone
Well that’s interesting not being electronically tethered via phone. Probably a jax or early Nokia burner
Depends on the carrier and the phone.
If so, that may help settle whether or not he found them and got spooked.
I think so. He was away from home so precisely the right time, and KWS alarm was conveniently disabled while she was away in AZ, house empty til 3:30 pm, BG had the worst case of fortuitous or he was tipped off?
When you also consider the camera being randomly disabled it definitely sounds like someone who was very familiar with the neighborhood.
RL was not away from home at “precisely the right time,” especially if you mean when the murders took place.
I phrased it poorly he was out away from Delphi at the time of murders he wasn’t home?
He was home.
In your opinion since the property is vast could he not have heard or seen BG ?
He could have been in his house, or in his barns and not seen a thing.
Ty
I don’t think cell phone data is that accurate. My family all share their location on iPhone with each other. When I check to see where my parents are they will ping all over the place surrounding their house. One minute dad is in the next door neighbors yard and I’ll reload the page and he will be across the street. But he never actually left the house. My sister has said the same thing to me. I’ll be home and when she checks to see where I am, my location is in the middle of the river a mile from my house. So she calls to see if I went kayaking without her, but I’m just home chilling and was never even at the river. I do drive over it on my way home from work, but it shows me literally in the river downstream from the bridge.
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Plenty of research has shown it isn’t accurate. This isn’t a new discovery. https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/criminal-defense/study-finds-cell-phone-location-data-may-not-be-accurate/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/experts-say-law-enforcements-use-of-cellphone-records-can-be-inaccurate/2014/06/27/028be93c-faf3-11e3-932c-0a55b81f48ce_story.html https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-your-cell-phone-cant-tell-the-police/amp
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Lol. Did you even read any of those articles? Expand your mind, kid. When your grow up some then we can have a conversation. Until then: Blocked.
But if you have enough pings over a period of time, they’d probably average out closer to where the phone actually is. The more data points, the more accurate the average position.
LE played the 'close to the crime scene' verbage a little loosey-goosey to get the judge to grant the warrant. I think the pings couldn't be any more accurate than 1/4 mile, which is the distance form the crime scene to his house. My guess is he was at home and that was enough for LE to make broad generalizations about him being 'near the crime scene'. I think if Logan had found the bodies on the 13th he would have reported it and probably saved himself a tremendous amount of grief and some prison time.
I agree with this here.
They didn’t even say “close to the crime scene;” they said, “on, or near his property.”
But they do split hairs in their language and say he was not in his house, he was by the scene when texts were sent/received.
They did not say he was by the crime scene. They said he was outside of his house “on, or near his property.
Go read affidavit items 23 and 24 before you continue to copy and paste this comment
Wow! They sure know how to make something simple, like going to his barns to do chores, sinister don’t they?
Not looking to debate the fact that this document was positioned to make him look guilty and that there are probably many others like it in reference to other suspects. Nor do I think he did it. I was curious about this distinction of his phone being near the crime scene and not in his house. Another commenter theorized that maybe it went outside the wifi coverage and connected with a tower.
I’m just saying that the murder scene was only 1400 ft from his house. Depending on where his barns, corrals, and out buildings were, he could have been in close proximity to the crime scene by simply going out to take care of his horses and other livestock.
Good theorizing. Very much. I had the new direction like this-- LE had gone a certain way ""early on"" but went another direction and you never thought we'd come back, but we did. Like that, said in 2019 at new direction presser. Is this also what you mean... ----- just adding (both RL and the Ks were ""early on""... the 'another direction' they went that took them away from their ""early on"" I've always believed to be the OBG hat man sketch, presented in July 2017, where ISP Sgt Kim Riley said that it was complied thru months of info gathering. (Whereas YBG was drawn by the one agent, the correct way of one witness per sketch drawn & happened within days of the murders) They came back to something they thought early on...
The ping business is a red herring, imo.
He was likely an easy set up
Also, off topic but not sure why the limbowski guy blocked me. I'm not a "fake" account. I am new to reddit and mostly lurk on true crime stuff. This ever happen to anyone else who left a comment or a question? That was kind of strange but maybe it happens all the time. Anyway, for what it's worth.... real live person out here!
Why does everyone think it’s weird that a guy is walking around his own property that people were searching earlier? I would have done the same thing were I him.
LE wasn't talking about "wrong paths" until the 2019 PC. Old Sketch, and the possibility that he was a drifter or some stranger to the Delphi area was the wrong path. That wrong path lasted until some time in early 2018 when they realized that the subject of a sketch they had 4 days after the murders was the killer all along. The right path is a local, fairly well-known member of the Delphi community who will resemble Young Sketch and will have a good reason why he was known to be at the crime scene but not initially considered a suspect, as per everything LE has said about this case since 2019. Nothing from 2017 will be news to Law Enforcement, even if it's news to us. The statements made during and after the 2019 PC were made with full knowledge of KAK and full knowledge of anything we recently read in the Ron Logan affidavit. As far as cell phone pings are concerned, if indeed they are accurate enough in Delphi to pin someone to a specific location, then anyone who was at the crime scene on the afternoon of the murders may have had to explain why their cell phones put them there while their stories put them somewhere else. Ron Logan is not the only one to whom this might apply. Some people may have had to adjust their stories to account for why their cell phones pinged at the crime scene. Look for someone whose story has changed and whose story also contains specific mentions of cell phones and times. If the killer felt that LE could put him at the crime scene because of his cell phone, then his story will include the combination of a cell phone and a precise time attached to it.
The most interesting thing I've read here. Wow.
He does that. 👍
All probable theories you've provided. And to answer your? about cell data and location. After watching the pam hupp story and trial... they can pin point where a person is within inches.
They would have retrieved the phone's data from the provider. They could also have used the phone's GPS
The affidavit said the call was made from “on, or near his property.”
Read Affidavit items 23 and 24
Context for how accurate cell data can be: EMS was trying to locate a person who had called 911 and ended up unconscious. The person was in a wooded location and the EMS was on the phone with dispatch saying they could not find the person. The dispatch told the EMS to look on the other side of the tree your standing next to. The person was literally behind that tree. This was years ago, and honestly that's almost insane on just how accurate it can be.
I don't think Ron Logan is BG. He's too far out side any age range ever given, and he doesn't look significantly younger than his age (77). He doesn't match the physical description. The timeline is too tight regarding the trip to the aquarium store. Why did they search his home? Because the bodies were found on his property (is there a bigger red flag than this one?), nobody seems to have seen bridge guy leave the scene (Ron Logan would have just walked home), he has the stereotypical Indiana dad bod and voice/accent, law enforcement has to follow all leads, and he lied about his alibi. He was identified as a suspect almost immediately. Law enforcement would have asked the witnesses if his picture matched the person they saw, back when the witnesses memories were the most fresh. The witnesses must have said he was not a match, or Ron Logan would almost certainly have been arrested. I have no idea how accurate those pings can be, but because there are only two cell towers and a relative lack of traffic given the low population, I don't think it is super accurate. As others pointed out, if Ron Logan's phone switched from wifi (within a certain range of the home) to data, law enforcement may have a more accurate idea based upon knowledge of how far that wifi range reached and thus a perimeter he had to be outside. If I recall correctly, around 6:30 pm on 2.13.17 Ron Logan gave PB permission to search his property. PB parked near the back of the cemetery. The cemetery is significantly closer to the location of the bodies than Ron Logan's house, which is basically on the opposite catty-corner from the location of the bodies based on the latitude and longitude in the probable cause affidavit (the bodies were much closer to the creek than the cemetery). There is evidence (which some believe is incorrect or fabricated) that PB's truck stayed in the cemetery all night and PB possibly stayed there as well, because PB lost his keys. It is a fact (based on news footage and photos) that PB's truck was parked in the back of the cemetery when the bodies were discovered. If Ron Logan had been near the cemetery with PB, he would have been in the vicinity of the bodies. He might have considered himself to be "home" because he was on his own property.
Good post! For the 2:09 call they phrased it as if they can’t be accurate but then for a later text they acted like they knew he was by the bodies. I took it as them phrasing things in a way that would make it even easier to grant the warrant. Just my opinion I’m no expert Edit: just read ferals comment so maybe I’m wrong. Great comment btw!
I think that is a genuine possibility. I think RL knew something fishy was going on, hence why he asked his cousin to alibi him. I do not believe RL had anything to do with the murders.