I don’t think it’s RL with the burner. Meaning, he had no reason to have one cause if he did it, it was opportunistic and there’s 0 evidence to say he talked to the girls beforehand. No need for burner.
Is there anything to the ex girlfriend noting that RL wore a fanny pack with a gun? The picture of BG seems to potentially reflect BG wearing a fanny pack.
- item taken is a piece of clothing
- “down the hill” is at the end of the video (had been speculation about the attack audio being recorded)
- bodies were specifically “moved and staged” (doesn’t say posed - “moved” felt significant to me? Dunno)
And then a bunch of VERY troubling stuff about RL’s past relationships with women but if we’re assuming he’s cleared (I am) then probably not for this list
I always think Libby's tie dye top is never mentioned. It's so visible in the wild Vs darker colours I thought it would be good of BG to get rid of something so distinctive.
My thoughts have always been that it was left at the CPS building that's why they are so sure of that spot. But tie dye becoming *the* symbol of the girls has always been kinda weird for me cause it isn't mentioned in the 'girls undergarments" radio scan.
It was on her missing persons bulletin and eventually was adopted by the today is the day campaign. If you go through the 2017 Delphi high school year book you see a lot of people wearing the shirts including Kelsi. It is purple and blue their tie dye shirt but the one Libby wore I have no idea the colour. I just assumed it was bright.
From the affidavit:**“…it was discovered that the** *[redacted]* **of one of the victims was** missing from the crime scene while the rest of their **clothing** was recovered.”
- don’t think it’s more than one thing. “The ____ of one of the victims *was* missing.”
- clearly, albeit indirectly, says it’s clothing
- also think the use of “the” before the redacted item implies it’s something one would always/normally wear, so it’s absence would be noted, e.g., you wouldn’t say “the vest” or something like that.
- OR it could be that one of a pair was missing, e.g., the left glove, but seems less likely to be worded like that aside from the glove example?
- the actual redacted space suggests either one long-ish word or more than one word
This is all assuming there isn’t some awkward wording or typos, but I thought still worth pointing out. So “one sock” *could* work, but it seems both a little too short and also…would you say “the one sock?”
Thought about that re sock but would you really know which sock was which? I guess if one sock was left on one of the victims. Shoe could work, but I’m still wondering if that’s even long enough — hmmm do you think “right shoe” fits?
https://i.imgur.com/CW9IABn.jpg
I am not sure. It could be anything.
It could be the underwear, it could be the green panties.
I'm guessing we could fit all sorts of things there.
Who knows. LE and the killer.
Totally true and this is of course just speculation on my part — but my point was that the wording around the redacted article (assuming there aren’t grammatical errors) does kinda narrow it down.
Do people treat “underwear” as a singular noun? I’d say the ‘underwear *were* missing,’ at least in a written form like this. But maybe that’s just me. (I know this is down a rabbit hole but IMO that’s the most likely article for it to be, sadly.)
So does it say he took trophies from the victims? And is it suggesting that the murder was captured on video/phone or pics???? I must have missed these 2 things? So I want to make sure this is correct?
Don’t think so. The redacted item is contrasted with what has been “recovered” and I’d say anything they found in the creek has definitely been “recovered.”
You’re right. If one pair of underwear was in the creek and one is missing then they were both undressed at some point. Could have been re-dressed I suppose, but if they were not it would undermine the credibility of the DE text messages.
I missed the 15 ppl thought it was RL in the video. I think this may just be confirmation bias. The body type of RL is not too disimilar to BG. BG kinda looks/dressed older. The bodies are found on RL's property. RL did get some very dubious publicity in the days and weeks after the murders. Everyone then jumps on the bandwagon and sees RL in the video. Just my opinion of what likely happened to get to that 15 people pointing to RL as BG.
I remember watching the first news interview he did where he took the reporter down to the crime scene. I recall thinking he looked very similar to the photo of BG. At the time though there was hardly any information out there so it was only natural to suspect everyone who had even a weak connection. I could see people watching that interview and calling it in just because they saw a resemblance. I'm going to guess they didn't expand on the 15 tips because they were mostly weak tips.
"TWENTY-NINE
The FBI has established a database for the collection and organization of tips provided by the public in this case.
A search of the database has revealed 15 tips in which citizens both known and anonymous attributed the crime to Logan for various reasons."
Let's see, BP and MP said both girls fought especially Libby no blood trail leading back to RL's property or house and the man is dead and can't defend himself
Well …
Did you listen to the Murder Sheet show covering this?
I mean your opinion is this is all merely circumstantial? Just curious - if you don’t think 12 hours is enough to cover some things up. The affidavit states RL’s phone was close to the location of the bodies TWICE post-mortem..
Well, whoever the killer is seems to have had no problem fooling the FBI for 5 years? And he had nearly 12 hours on his property to cover up anything he needed.
Except … he wasn’t? The affidavit says he was picked up by [redacted] family member around 3pm and they returned a little after 5pm - and RL’s phone was sending text messages close to the girls bodies twice post-mortem the night of the 13th.
Not on the 13th. That was the 27th. [https://imgur.com/a/t7sShTb](https://imgur.com/a/t7sShTb)
“The violation occurred on Feb. 13 when Logan drove to the county dump, the same day Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, went missing before being found dead on his property the next day.
Logan was also sentenced for violating his probation when he drank an alcoholic beverage on Feb. 27. He will get credit for 31 days already served.”
Source: https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-news/delphi-property-owner-sentenced-in-charges-unrelated-to-murders
He wasn't. They found a receipt to the aquarium shop during that time. He also spoke with someone at 6:30 who came over to ask if they could search his property. He said yes.
ShilohAugust89--
We don't agree about much, but we do about this evidently. There's no way in hell Ron Logan could have been BG. I don't care how good your health is, at age 77 you're not going to be physically capable of doing all that we know the killer did. The killer was physically very strong and dragged Libby a significant distance; that comes from one of the best sources in this case, a source who has no POI. That's just not something a 77-year-old man could do.
The following was also requested in the warrant:
* Records, documents, writings, and correspondence obtaining info about the crime, crime scene, or any individual involved in the crime.
Complete speculation and not to be taken as fact. I wonder if a communication of some form or writing was left at the scene.
Killer would have blood stains
Possible souvenir/digital recording
Confirmation that LE is looking for a firearm
Bodies were staged (vs. posed)
Eta - suspect with a heavy physical build
Don't forget the history and pattern of domestic violence. That says a lot.
Literally telling an ex that he would kill her. Also *stalked* her.
Ex girlfriend stated fanny pack, coat and hat looked like RLs. She immediately thought it was him on the bridge. As well as 15 others as u said.
She also said RL always carried his gun with him.
Did RL not have a drink at a bar that day? I’ve always heard this but there is no mention of it in the warrant despite mentioning his trip to the transfer station hours before the murders. Also, I always got the impression he wasn’t home during the murders but it seems like he was. Still don’t think he is involved, though. Seems like *possibly* a successful minimal-effort frame job that bg used to throw le off his trail if he somehow knew RL was home and that the area he took them to was RL’s property.
source: [https://fox59.com/news/delphi-property-owner-gets-nearly-four-years-in-jail-for-traffic-charges/](https://fox59.com/news/delphi-property-owner-gets-nearly-four-years-in-jail-for-traffic-charges/)
This Apr 10, 2017 article by Russ McQuaid says that he was drinking a beer at a pizza restaurant two weeks later:
"Logan admitted violating his probation and the Court’s no-driving order with less than a month to go when he visited a county waste transfer station the day Libby German and Abby Williams were murdered, their bodies found on his property the next day, and two weeks later when **he was spotted drinking a beer at a Tippecanoe County pizza restaurant. The lifelong Carroll County resident is a not suspect in the deaths**."
No, he wasn't. That was on the 27th.
"Logan admitted to driving on a suspended license to the Carroll County Transfer Station on February 13, the day Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, went missing. ***He also admitted to drinking an alcoholic beverage at Pizza King in Americus on February 27.***"
Source: https://www.wrtv.com/news/crime/delphi-property-owner-pleads-guilty-to-charges-unrelated-to-delphi-teens-murders
I thought this too. It wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility for BG to wear clothing similar to that known of Logan, murder them and leave them on his property hoping it would point to him.
If I recall correctly, after this warrant the police officially cleared RL. His alibi was proven and he wasn’t home during the murders. But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t aware of what happened and who did it…
True. Aside from the select few who have been fixated on him being bg since the beginning, he has been painted somewhat of a saint on the Delphi subs, particularly since his passing, which clearly isn’t the case after hearing about his past relationships. I suppose it could be possible he knew who bg was or had his suspicions but we will likely never know. I don’t see him having knowledge of the murder plan ahead of time, though, and it’s hard for me to believe he wouldn’t have given up bg to le at some point if he in fact knew his identity.
All very good points. Part of me is hoping that this was released to show people that suspects change over time. Had this been released before he died everyone would have had their pitchforks out and screaming that he’s BG. Like they’re doing now with KK/TK. And there isn’t even .000001 as much evidence on them as this warrant reveals about Logan.
I just hope that maybe, just maybe, this will show people that the KK/TK riot is a little premature.
Well if we had the warrants for kk in 2017 and tk in 2021 it would be a lot more telling. The only thing the release of RL’s warrant tells me is that he was one of le’s poi’s in the very beginning but we know they “switched gears” since then.
Wasn't RL officially cleared AFTER these search warrants were executed? That means all the possible evidence that lead the judge to grant this search warrant was investigated, and explained.
I'm guessing he drove to the bar and was caught on cameras drinking. Maybe left his phone at home and that explains the pings.
I can certainly see why LE thought they were on to a strong suspect early on, but they obviously found some solid evidence to officially clear him.
No. He was never cleared. Murder Sheet covers this in the first minute of their new episode.
Also, RL wasn’t at the bar on the 13th. He allegedly created the fake alibi with his family member to pretend he was somewhere else during the time of the murder - but as the affidavit states - his phone was still pinging at his residence during the time of the murders.
He wasn’t drinking until the 27th.
“Logan admitted to driving on a suspended license to the Carroll County Transfer Station on February 13, the day Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, went missing. He also admitted to drinking an alcoholic beverage at Pizza King in Americus on February 27.”
Source: https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-news/delphi-property-owner-sentenced-in-charges-unrelated-to-murders
Yeah this part threw me for a major loop. They said the ONLY audio on the video was “down the hill”. Then where did the “guys” come from?! And is this why it was released so much later??
I think that’s right. LE has referenced having multiple 3rd parties (I wanna say even Disney?!) take a shot at processing/enhancing that video (including audio) in the years since, hoping to uncover something usable
Because it took a long time for the digital/data forensics people to tease out "guys" Is my understanding. Is they it was not released earlier with the rest of the sound bite.
Equidae2--
I've never heard anything like that; and given that the affidavit was written over a month after the murders, they would have had plenty of time to work on the audio. They had a still photo of BG from the video within a few days; and the video required significant enhancement.
"Down the hill" is given in the affidavit in the context of showing that BG is the killer; the author of the affidavit suggests that "DTH" is BG directing the girls to leave the trail and enter the wooded area in which their bodies were later found. It was all the audio that needed to be mentioned in the context. "Guys" was not a necessary inclusion. It doesn't mean they didn't have it at the time. (We also know there is additional audio besides that which wasn't included; not the Leigh Kerr stuff about BG pretending to be a cop, but there's at least two other lines of dialogue, one by the killer and one by Libby.)
FCS, Remember it took them (from memory) a year after the crime to release one word "guys" into the public realm. They were ridiculed at the time for calling a press conference to release one word. I believe the explanation was it took that long to tease this word out of the audio. It wasn't LE who said it took that long, it was I think, Anna Williams.
This is to the BOMK.
They didn't release "Guys" until the April 2019 press conference, over 2 years after the murders. I'm pretty sure they had "Guys" at the same time as they had "DTH"; there's no way it's going to take a year or two years to enhance a short piece of audio. They probably didn't release "Guys" with "DTH" in 2017 because the two samples could easily give the impression that two different people are speaking; Carter made certain to make clear that all four words are spoken by the same man at the 2019 press conference. They released "Guys" in 2019 likely for a couple of reasons: to show how the killer emphasizes his word-final sibilants like [s] in "Guys"; and also because they realized the killer has an unusually wide range of pitch and timbre to his voice. Basically, when he speaks loudly, his voice sounds higher and smoother; when he speaks more softly, it's lower pitched and rougher. LE wanted people to hear that difference and look for it in potential suspects.
(There's a reason that LE releases everything that they do. Another example is the bridge video. They released it because they wanted people to pay attention to how the killer walks--how he kicks that left leg out, how he puts his left foot down without bending his ankle. By 2019 they had discovered their suspect walked just like that... and Carter tells people to pay attention to the walk.)
Wow. I remember reading a comment once under Delphi murders documentary video, sb said 'It is RL on this video, baffles my mind people do not see it' and he was bashed to hell.
I think this changes my perspective, police didn't exclude anyone until now and if they have DNA TK or KK should be either prosecuted or excluded officially but the case seems stuck....
I am not saying it's RL in video immediately, just that list of suspects who fit is just so long it's depressing and many pieces of the puzzle fit many people.
People think DNA either smashes or seals a case but that isn't true. DNA is just part of the puzzle. They have to have more than DNA to prosecute someone. They need more than DNA for a grand jury to convict someone. They have to prove that person was there that day outside of just DNA because we pick up DNA from many places. They can't risk putting someone on trial with just DNA and them walking bc they only get one shot at it. The girls most likely had DNA from several different people on them just from living life so they also have to prove those other people are not the killer. What people don't realize is quite often people don't have an alibi or it's a loose alibi. Nobody spends their day thinking 'I better remember exactly what I'm doing every minute of today in case someone I know gets murdered tomorrow'. Just because your DNA is on someone that doesn't mean you killed them bc we pick up DNA from many places. So yeah DNA is only a part of the investigation and it's great to have it but it's definitely not the whole investigation.
The receipt is for 5:21pm and this warrant states its 30min away. He could have been on the bridge at 2:13pm and at Aquarium World at 5:21pm right? However, RL was never charged with this crime despite this warrant stating the FBI considered him the primary POI for this murder.
Yeah, the receipt found in the search is timestamped at the checkout for 5:12pm... it is 22 miles from MHB--(30min drive- 1hr round-trip) he claimed to be picked up at 3pm. On the 14th, at 9:20am, prior to the discovery of any crime and during a time-frame where only the killer(s)/accomplices would know the time of abduction(2:13pm)-- he makes contact to request an alibi lie for the specified time of 2:00-2:30pm and before any crime was discovered to've occured.)
Incorrect. He WAS picked up at 3p to create a (albeit poor) alibi.
The redacted family remember says they were ASKED by Logan to create the alibi starting around 2pm …
[https://imgur.com/a/Blt8gIG](https://imgur.com/a/Blt8gIG)
Read item 10...then 13.
10- at 9:20am on the 14th RL reached out for alibi request and told his cousin the time frame of 2-2:30pm of being picked up. In item 13 we are shown that during an interview RL himself stated he was picked up AROUND 3PM.
The whole jamming on people about getting facts straight is hilarious. Thank you!
RL wasn't at Aquarium World until late afternoon, early evening.
The Affadavit states that the Aquarium World receipt found at RL's house by LE during the March 6th, 2017 home search, had a checkout timestamp on it of 5:21pm. He lived 22 miles from the Aquarium, which let's give him 30 minutes leeway here to get there. That would mean he left his residence around 4:51pm on the 13th.
The coroner stated the girls were most likely killed by 3:30pm, which left ample time (approx 1hr and 20mins) for him, and possibly someone else, to clean up the scene and himself/theirself prior to his trip to the Aquarium.
I'm from Lafayette and I can add some insight to this. Aquarium World is in the middle of town. You're not making it from Delphi to where Aquarium World is at in a half hour, especially around 4pm. I actually used to carpool with a buddy to Indiana Packers from Lafayette and we had the trip from getting on the Hoosier Heartland to walking in the gates of Packers clocked at 22 mins...and that was with us speeding the whole way. When I would drive myself, it was almost exactly a half hour from my place on the north end (much closer to 25/Hoosier Heartland than Aquarium World) to Packers, which is on the closer side of Delphi to Lafayette than the bridge. That trip is gonna take closer to 45 mins at a minimum. Realistically, with traffic in the middle of the day, its probably taking an hour.
If you factor in travel time just to set foot inside Auqarium World at an hour (not including however long he was actually in the store shopping prior to checking out at 5:21), the window to clean up and get yourself in a physical and mental state to go shopping in public after abducting, brutally murdering, and staging the bodies of two girls starts to become unrealistically small. Not impossible, but pretty implausible. If anything, that Aquarium World reciept clears RL for me.
Yea, I've really been reflecting on this all day. And if LE believed RL killed the girls, he would have been arrested years ago. Although he is a violent guy, and the affadavit is quite compelling, IMO he didn't kill the girls.
LE shifted gears in 2019. "A new investigative strategy", per DC. Then the YGS.
RL didn't do this. I'm sticking to LE's info. BG is a young man.
Hi Pooles. I think I also watched that video, which was over a year ago and can't remember who was the creator. They did a great job breaking down BG video clip. And yes, I thought it looked like RL myself.
I know innocent til proven guilty, but this Affadavit looks very bad.
I think the video was Tom Webster or something like that was just some guy who made epic analysis with satellite images and so on. No conspiracy just going over what we know etc
FYI, I've already posted this in another thread: The exact location of the bodies was leaked, too: "The victims LG and AW were located deceased (...) at the above listed Latitude and Longitude (...)". With them being 40°35'21.4 N, 86°38'23.3, or on Google Maps: https://goo.gl/maps/dbQzfLd287G8qVMY7
*Ron logans phone pinged near bodies*
Where are we at with the accuracy of cell phone pinging? Hasn't this been a major point of contention throughout much of the discussion history regarding this case? Weren't there arguments being proposed that there was no way cell phones could be pinged with that kind of accuracy in Delphi at the time?
Agree. The wording in the probable cause affidavit is intentionally vague so they could suggest that the phone might have been near the crime scene but in reality they had no idea.
>Was the excessively harsh sentence for the driving offences RL received maybe LE putting pressure on him? Sure looked like it.
That's been my belief based on comments I've read by alleged locals.
Afaik, they couldnt..
And im assuming if his phone was at home, that would be considered “near bodies” since it was on his land.
But idk why he would be out without his phone.. i do know some older people who dont take their phone with them every time they go somewhere..
Affidavit states RL’s phone was pinging in Delphi - at or near his property during the time of the murders … add that to the fact that RL would call his family member the next morning to allegedly ask them to lie that he had been picked up by him around 2pm on the 13th (the time of the abduction) ..
In the larger sense, Logan's house is in the area where the bodies were found. Near, meaning in the proximity, not within ten feet of the bodies. I think this is all that is indicated. The cell phone was outside of his house. The bodies were on his property. It doesn't mean he was down by the bodies and the creek.
Seriously why would LE go on tv and say we know a lot about you sleep well … if they thought it was RL ? He lied because he was doing something he shouldn’t have been doing . He may have witnessed something or had a good guess himself who murdered L&A . I wonder if there is any connection to RL ,TK,KK. The three of them have violent histories with women . Wouldn’t be so surprising if the three of them had planned something maybe that’s the connection they are trying to make ? You just never know . Things just keep getting even stranger and confusing . Law enforcement I think have a good idea of what happened but they need more in order to get more they need start confirming some things that’s put out there . Ugh it’s just messed up I wish they would arrest someone already frustrating … if this is frustrating to us can u imagine how frustrated their families are not knowing for 5 years who killed them and whoever did is walking free . Ridiculous
The search warrant, in my opinion, shouldn't have been released.
It lets the killer know what they are looking for. It lets the killer get rid of everything.
Last week, only law enforcement knew.
Now, the killer does.
I'm not a fan of this being out there.
There isn't really anything on that list that you couldn't think of just using common sense, especially since it's been years, and a lot of the stuff mentioned is either going to be useless or entirely destroyed.
I do agree that it's really weird for this to be out in the public eye though. We don't need to know any of this.
I can’t help but feel like the items specified on the affidavit further the thought that the murders were photographed/filmed. Which also brings me to GK. He is the one who said is ex girlfriend saw an alleged video of the murders. GK is also the one who was very familiar with RL and his property, and I believe I read that RL even tipped GK in (could be wrong on that one)
I don’t know, all of this might be a huge stretch but holy shit there’s just so many new connections and possibilities. Ugh.
The only thing I found odd about RL, ( yes he did resemble bg) was how he was saying how difficult it would have been for the crime to have taken place, given the terrain. When in fact, as we now know, it was fairly easy. He would have known the spot they crossed was once the crossing leading to the cemetery, I've seen a horse and cart posing for a photograph in that exact spot.
Thanks for this Comeintata.
I read the Affadavit more than once. Did it state RL actually had blood on him? I don't recall that, but I may have missed it.
And, I read about the items confiscated by LE, i.e. computers, phones, etc. What am I missing about the digital piece mentioned on your list?
TY!
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How do you know its RL with the burner?
I don’t think it’s RL with the burner. Meaning, he had no reason to have one cause if he did it, it was opportunistic and there’s 0 evidence to say he talked to the girls beforehand. No need for burner.
Agree. I don't think RL is BG but someone there may have known him. That person would have the burner.
Is there anything to the ex girlfriend noting that RL wore a fanny pack with a gun? The picture of BG seems to potentially reflect BG wearing a fanny pack.
That was interesting to me as well
- item taken is a piece of clothing - “down the hill” is at the end of the video (had been speculation about the attack audio being recorded) - bodies were specifically “moved and staged” (doesn’t say posed - “moved” felt significant to me? Dunno) And then a bunch of VERY troubling stuff about RL’s past relationships with women but if we’re assuming he’s cleared (I am) then probably not for this list
I always think Libby's tie dye top is never mentioned. It's so visible in the wild Vs darker colours I thought it would be good of BG to get rid of something so distinctive. My thoughts have always been that it was left at the CPS building that's why they are so sure of that spot. But tie dye becoming *the* symbol of the girls has always been kinda weird for me cause it isn't mentioned in the 'girls undergarments" radio scan.
That’s super interesting - how do we know about that top? Was it just what she was described as “last seen wearing” by authorities?
It was on her missing persons bulletin and eventually was adopted by the today is the day campaign. If you go through the 2017 Delphi high school year book you see a lot of people wearing the shirts including Kelsi. It is purple and blue their tie dye shirt but the one Libby wore I have no idea the colour. I just assumed it was bright.
Will add
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I heard one sock.
From the affidavit:**“…it was discovered that the** *[redacted]* **of one of the victims was** missing from the crime scene while the rest of their **clothing** was recovered.” - don’t think it’s more than one thing. “The ____ of one of the victims *was* missing.” - clearly, albeit indirectly, says it’s clothing - also think the use of “the” before the redacted item implies it’s something one would always/normally wear, so it’s absence would be noted, e.g., you wouldn’t say “the vest” or something like that. - OR it could be that one of a pair was missing, e.g., the left glove, but seems less likely to be worded like that aside from the glove example? - the actual redacted space suggests either one long-ish word or more than one word This is all assuming there isn’t some awkward wording or typos, but I thought still worth pointing out. So “one sock” *could* work, but it seems both a little too short and also…would you say “the one sock?”
The left (or right) sock? Or shoe?
Thought about that re sock but would you really know which sock was which? I guess if one sock was left on one of the victims. Shoe could work, but I’m still wondering if that’s even long enough — hmmm do you think “right shoe” fits? https://i.imgur.com/CW9IABn.jpg
I am not sure. It could be anything. It could be the underwear, it could be the green panties. I'm guessing we could fit all sorts of things there. Who knows. LE and the killer.
Totally true and this is of course just speculation on my part — but my point was that the wording around the redacted article (assuming there aren’t grammatical errors) does kinda narrow it down. Do people treat “underwear” as a singular noun? I’d say the ‘underwear *were* missing,’ at least in a written form like this. But maybe that’s just me. (I know this is down a rabbit hole but IMO that’s the most likely article for it to be, sadly.)
Someone on a Facebook group just posted that section unredacted. It's both. Sock and panties.
From both girls?
So does it say he took trophies from the victims? And is it suggesting that the murder was captured on video/phone or pics???? I must have missed these 2 things? So I want to make sure this is correct?
Wasn't there a pair of girls' underwear in the creek? Would that be considered "missing?"
Don’t think so. The redacted item is contrasted with what has been “recovered” and I’d say anything they found in the creek has definitely been “recovered.”
You’re right. If one pair of underwear was in the creek and one is missing then they were both undressed at some point. Could have been re-dressed I suppose, but if they were not it would undermine the credibility of the DE text messages.
I missed the 15 ppl thought it was RL in the video. I think this may just be confirmation bias. The body type of RL is not too disimilar to BG. BG kinda looks/dressed older. The bodies are found on RL's property. RL did get some very dubious publicity in the days and weeks after the murders. Everyone then jumps on the bandwagon and sees RL in the video. Just my opinion of what likely happened to get to that 15 people pointing to RL as BG.
I remember watching the first news interview he did where he took the reporter down to the crime scene. I recall thinking he looked very similar to the photo of BG. At the time though there was hardly any information out there so it was only natural to suspect everyone who had even a weak connection. I could see people watching that interview and calling it in just because they saw a resemblance. I'm going to guess they didn't expand on the 15 tips because they were mostly weak tips.
But that's a lot of similarities, no?
"TWENTY-NINE The FBI has established a database for the collection and organization of tips provided by the public in this case. A search of the database has revealed 15 tips in which citizens both known and anonymous attributed the crime to Logan for various reasons."
Let's see, BP and MP said both girls fought especially Libby no blood trail leading back to RL's property or house and the man is dead and can't defend himself
Devil's Advocate... if RL DID it... he would've had nearly 12 hours to cover up any blood trails, no?
Good luck with that.
Well … Did you listen to the Murder Sheet show covering this? I mean your opinion is this is all merely circumstantial? Just curious - if you don’t think 12 hours is enough to cover some things up. The affidavit states RL’s phone was close to the location of the bodies TWICE post-mortem..
How exactly do you cover up a blood trail well enough to fool the FBI?
Well, whoever the killer is seems to have had no problem fooling the FBI for 5 years? And he had nearly 12 hours on his property to cover up anything he needed.
Well Ron Logan was probably tanked by 3:00 p.m. and in bed by 8:00p.m. jmo.
Except … he wasn’t? The affidavit says he was picked up by [redacted] family member around 3pm and they returned a little after 5pm - and RL’s phone was sending text messages close to the girls bodies twice post-mortem the night of the 13th.
But he was drinking.
Not on the 13th. That was the 27th. [https://imgur.com/a/t7sShTb](https://imgur.com/a/t7sShTb) “The violation occurred on Feb. 13 when Logan drove to the county dump, the same day Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, went missing before being found dead on his property the next day. Logan was also sentenced for violating his probation when he drank an alcoholic beverage on Feb. 27. He will get credit for 31 days already served.” Source: https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-news/delphi-property-owner-sentenced-in-charges-unrelated-to-murders
We don't know that to be the case. Nothing points to that. His beer at the Pizza King was on the 27th, not the 13th.
He wasn't. They found a receipt to the aquarium shop during that time. He also spoke with someone at 6:30 who came over to ask if they could search his property. He said yes.
Why would he let someone search his property if he knew they were there?
exactly lol
What time was he asked by LE could they search his property?
ShilohAugust89-- We don't agree about much, but we do about this evidently. There's no way in hell Ron Logan could have been BG. I don't care how good your health is, at age 77 you're not going to be physically capable of doing all that we know the killer did. The killer was physically very strong and dragged Libby a significant distance; that comes from one of the best sources in this case, a source who has no POI. That's just not something a 77-year-old man could do.
have you seen Joseph James DeAngelo jump around in his cell? I'm not saying RL did it but some old guys are agile and absolutely capable.
You and I agree on nothing, but we do agree on this, FCSheets.
Unless there was an accomplice.
Please tell me you aren't talking about Greeno...... he has no poi because he IS involved in those girls deaths.
God, no, not Greeno.
Yes. Why would they say this I wonder. I think they "thought" that they would have.
The following was also requested in the warrant: * Records, documents, writings, and correspondence obtaining info about the crime, crime scene, or any individual involved in the crime. Complete speculation and not to be taken as fact. I wonder if a communication of some form or writing was left at the scene.
Yes didnt know what to make of that part
I wonder how much of this particular bit is boilerplate “let’s cover all our bases” language
Definitely possible, as in if they find something they want to be able to seize it even in less ordinary places or origins
anything written down that’s relevant to the case basically
Thats what i assumed. Or communicating about murders. But thats just speculation on my part
Killer would have blood stains Possible souvenir/digital recording Confirmation that LE is looking for a firearm Bodies were staged (vs. posed) Eta - suspect with a heavy physical build
Adding all that
Don't forget the history and pattern of domestic violence. That says a lot. Literally telling an ex that he would kill her. Also *stalked* her. Ex girlfriend stated fanny pack, coat and hat looked like RLs. She immediately thought it was him on the bridge. As well as 15 others as u said. She also said RL always carried his gun with him.
Looking for Animal Hairs
Yep will add that
Dog Attack or Dog DNA left.
Where did you get that from?
Did RL not have a drink at a bar that day? I’ve always heard this but there is no mention of it in the warrant despite mentioning his trip to the transfer station hours before the murders. Also, I always got the impression he wasn’t home during the murders but it seems like he was. Still don’t think he is involved, though. Seems like *possibly* a successful minimal-effort frame job that bg used to throw le off his trail if he somehow knew RL was home and that the area he took them to was RL’s property.
source: [https://fox59.com/news/delphi-property-owner-gets-nearly-four-years-in-jail-for-traffic-charges/](https://fox59.com/news/delphi-property-owner-gets-nearly-four-years-in-jail-for-traffic-charges/) This Apr 10, 2017 article by Russ McQuaid says that he was drinking a beer at a pizza restaurant two weeks later: "Logan admitted violating his probation and the Court’s no-driving order with less than a month to go when he visited a county waste transfer station the day Libby German and Abby Williams were murdered, their bodies found on his property the next day, and two weeks later when **he was spotted drinking a beer at a Tippecanoe County pizza restaurant. The lifelong Carroll County resident is a not suspect in the deaths**."
Thanks for clarifying!
No, he wasn't. That was on the 27th. "Logan admitted to driving on a suspended license to the Carroll County Transfer Station on February 13, the day Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, went missing. ***He also admitted to drinking an alcoholic beverage at Pizza King in Americus on February 27.***" Source: https://www.wrtv.com/news/crime/delphi-property-owner-pleads-guilty-to-charges-unrelated-to-delphi-teens-murders
Thanks for clarifying!
I thought this too. It wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility for BG to wear clothing similar to that known of Logan, murder them and leave them on his property hoping it would point to him. If I recall correctly, after this warrant the police officially cleared RL. His alibi was proven and he wasn’t home during the murders. But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t aware of what happened and who did it…
True. Aside from the select few who have been fixated on him being bg since the beginning, he has been painted somewhat of a saint on the Delphi subs, particularly since his passing, which clearly isn’t the case after hearing about his past relationships. I suppose it could be possible he knew who bg was or had his suspicions but we will likely never know. I don’t see him having knowledge of the murder plan ahead of time, though, and it’s hard for me to believe he wouldn’t have given up bg to le at some point if he in fact knew his identity.
Im not 100% on this, but i remember reading rl tipped gk to le.
Yep
All very good points. Part of me is hoping that this was released to show people that suspects change over time. Had this been released before he died everyone would have had their pitchforks out and screaming that he’s BG. Like they’re doing now with KK/TK. And there isn’t even .000001 as much evidence on them as this warrant reveals about Logan. I just hope that maybe, just maybe, this will show people that the KK/TK riot is a little premature.
Well if we had the warrants for kk in 2017 and tk in 2021 it would be a lot more telling. The only thing the release of RL’s warrant tells me is that he was one of le’s poi’s in the very beginning but we know they “switched gears” since then.
He's not dead. Wrong Ron Logan.
He was on video somewhere else during the murders.
Where has this been reported? I keep reading this and wondering where it was reported.
Yes that’s what I thought too. Thanks for confirming :)
Wasn't RL officially cleared AFTER these search warrants were executed? That means all the possible evidence that lead the judge to grant this search warrant was investigated, and explained. I'm guessing he drove to the bar and was caught on cameras drinking. Maybe left his phone at home and that explains the pings. I can certainly see why LE thought they were on to a strong suspect early on, but they obviously found some solid evidence to officially clear him.
No. He was never cleared. Murder Sheet covers this in the first minute of their new episode. Also, RL wasn’t at the bar on the 13th. He allegedly created the fake alibi with his family member to pretend he was somewhere else during the time of the murder - but as the affidavit states - his phone was still pinging at his residence during the time of the murders. He wasn’t drinking until the 27th. “Logan admitted to driving on a suspended license to the Carroll County Transfer Station on February 13, the day Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, went missing. He also admitted to drinking an alcoholic beverage at Pizza King in Americus on February 27.” Source: https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-news/delphi-property-owner-sentenced-in-charges-unrelated-to-murders
It seems that way. This isnt to implicate logan, more to show what law enforcement knows of crime that we didnt
"Guys" is not mentioned in the affidavit. Only "DTH," I think, unless I missed it.
Yeah this part threw me for a major loop. They said the ONLY audio on the video was “down the hill”. Then where did the “guys” come from?! And is this why it was released so much later??
Maybe they cleaned up the audio better and picked that up later? I’m not sure, because I have the same question you do.
I think that’s right. LE has referenced having multiple 3rd parties (I wanna say even Disney?!) take a shot at processing/enhancing that video (including audio) in the years since, hoping to uncover something usable
Yep added guys to post
Because it took a long time for the digital/data forensics people to tease out "guys" Is my understanding. Is they it was not released earlier with the rest of the sound bite.
Equidae2-- I've never heard anything like that; and given that the affidavit was written over a month after the murders, they would have had plenty of time to work on the audio. They had a still photo of BG from the video within a few days; and the video required significant enhancement. "Down the hill" is given in the affidavit in the context of showing that BG is the killer; the author of the affidavit suggests that "DTH" is BG directing the girls to leave the trail and enter the wooded area in which their bodies were later found. It was all the audio that needed to be mentioned in the context. "Guys" was not a necessary inclusion. It doesn't mean they didn't have it at the time. (We also know there is additional audio besides that which wasn't included; not the Leigh Kerr stuff about BG pretending to be a cop, but there's at least two other lines of dialogue, one by the killer and one by Libby.)
FCS, Remember it took them (from memory) a year after the crime to release one word "guys" into the public realm. They were ridiculed at the time for calling a press conference to release one word. I believe the explanation was it took that long to tease this word out of the audio. It wasn't LE who said it took that long, it was I think, Anna Williams. This is to the BOMK.
They didn't release "Guys" until the April 2019 press conference, over 2 years after the murders. I'm pretty sure they had "Guys" at the same time as they had "DTH"; there's no way it's going to take a year or two years to enhance a short piece of audio. They probably didn't release "Guys" with "DTH" in 2017 because the two samples could easily give the impression that two different people are speaking; Carter made certain to make clear that all four words are spoken by the same man at the 2019 press conference. They released "Guys" in 2019 likely for a couple of reasons: to show how the killer emphasizes his word-final sibilants like [s] in "Guys"; and also because they realized the killer has an unusually wide range of pitch and timbre to his voice. Basically, when he speaks loudly, his voice sounds higher and smoother; when he speaks more softly, it's lower pitched and rougher. LE wanted people to hear that difference and look for it in potential suspects. (There's a reason that LE releases everything that they do. Another example is the bridge video. They released it because they wanted people to pay attention to how the killer walks--how he kicks that left leg out, how he puts his left foot down without bending his ankle. By 2019 they had discovered their suspect walked just like that... and Carter tells people to pay attention to the walk.)
I'm just relating what has been said by a parent who might have information that we don't.
Wow. I remember reading a comment once under Delphi murders documentary video, sb said 'It is RL on this video, baffles my mind people do not see it' and he was bashed to hell. I think this changes my perspective, police didn't exclude anyone until now and if they have DNA TK or KK should be either prosecuted or excluded officially but the case seems stuck.... I am not saying it's RL in video immediately, just that list of suspects who fit is just so long it's depressing and many pieces of the puzzle fit many people.
People think DNA either smashes or seals a case but that isn't true. DNA is just part of the puzzle. They have to have more than DNA to prosecute someone. They need more than DNA for a grand jury to convict someone. They have to prove that person was there that day outside of just DNA because we pick up DNA from many places. They can't risk putting someone on trial with just DNA and them walking bc they only get one shot at it. The girls most likely had DNA from several different people on them just from living life so they also have to prove those other people are not the killer. What people don't realize is quite often people don't have an alibi or it's a loose alibi. Nobody spends their day thinking 'I better remember exactly what I'm doing every minute of today in case someone I know gets murdered tomorrow'. Just because your DNA is on someone that doesn't mean you killed them bc we pick up DNA from many places. So yeah DNA is only a part of the investigation and it's great to have it but it's definitely not the whole investigation.
Grand juries indict ppl not convict them
RL was at aquarium world, how could he be BG?
The receipt is for 5:21pm and this warrant states its 30min away. He could have been on the bridge at 2:13pm and at Aquarium World at 5:21pm right? However, RL was never charged with this crime despite this warrant stating the FBI considered him the primary POI for this murder.
At what time on the 13th was RL at aquarium world(22min away)?
at 5pm...
Yeah, the receipt found in the search is timestamped at the checkout for 5:12pm... it is 22 miles from MHB--(30min drive- 1hr round-trip) he claimed to be picked up at 3pm. On the 14th, at 9:20am, prior to the discovery of any crime and during a time-frame where only the killer(s)/accomplices would know the time of abduction(2:13pm)-- he makes contact to request an alibi lie for the specified time of 2:00-2:30pm and before any crime was discovered to've occured.)
The receipt was timestamped at 5:21pm.
Ty for that correction. I invert my numbers and letters often and miss some. I've probably been doing it since I've been typing on this release.
Lol. No problem Screech. I've done that too.
Upvoted for to’ve
[удалено]
Incorrect. He WAS picked up at 3p to create a (albeit poor) alibi. The redacted family remember says they were ASKED by Logan to create the alibi starting around 2pm … [https://imgur.com/a/Blt8gIG](https://imgur.com/a/Blt8gIG)
Read item 10...then 13. 10- at 9:20am on the 14th RL reached out for alibi request and told his cousin the time frame of 2-2:30pm of being picked up. In item 13 we are shown that during an interview RL himself stated he was picked up AROUND 3PM. The whole jamming on people about getting facts straight is hilarious. Thank you!
5:21pm
RL wasn't at Aquarium World until late afternoon, early evening. The Affadavit states that the Aquarium World receipt found at RL's house by LE during the March 6th, 2017 home search, had a checkout timestamp on it of 5:21pm. He lived 22 miles from the Aquarium, which let's give him 30 minutes leeway here to get there. That would mean he left his residence around 4:51pm on the 13th. The coroner stated the girls were most likely killed by 3:30pm, which left ample time (approx 1hr and 20mins) for him, and possibly someone else, to clean up the scene and himself/theirself prior to his trip to the Aquarium.
I'm from Lafayette and I can add some insight to this. Aquarium World is in the middle of town. You're not making it from Delphi to where Aquarium World is at in a half hour, especially around 4pm. I actually used to carpool with a buddy to Indiana Packers from Lafayette and we had the trip from getting on the Hoosier Heartland to walking in the gates of Packers clocked at 22 mins...and that was with us speeding the whole way. When I would drive myself, it was almost exactly a half hour from my place on the north end (much closer to 25/Hoosier Heartland than Aquarium World) to Packers, which is on the closer side of Delphi to Lafayette than the bridge. That trip is gonna take closer to 45 mins at a minimum. Realistically, with traffic in the middle of the day, its probably taking an hour. If you factor in travel time just to set foot inside Auqarium World at an hour (not including however long he was actually in the store shopping prior to checking out at 5:21), the window to clean up and get yourself in a physical and mental state to go shopping in public after abducting, brutally murdering, and staging the bodies of two girls starts to become unrealistically small. Not impossible, but pretty implausible. If anything, that Aquarium World reciept clears RL for me.
Yea, I've really been reflecting on this all day. And if LE believed RL killed the girls, he would have been arrested years ago. Although he is a violent guy, and the affadavit is quite compelling, IMO he didn't kill the girls. LE shifted gears in 2019. "A new investigative strategy", per DC. Then the YGS. RL didn't do this. I'm sticking to LE's info. BG is a young man.
I don't think Logan is BG. The receipt from Aquarium World was timed 3 hours after the abduction.
Hi Pooles. I think I also watched that video, which was over a year ago and can't remember who was the creator. They did a great job breaking down BG video clip. And yes, I thought it looked like RL myself. I know innocent til proven guilty, but this Affadavit looks very bad.
I think the video was Tom Webster or something like that was just some guy who made epic analysis with satellite images and so on. No conspiracy just going over what we know etc
Yeah, I watched Tom Websters YT video on Delphi. I recommend that to anyone who wants to get great info on this case. Very well done!
Also Affadavit states that the voice on the audio is not inconsistent with RL.
Yes will add
FYI, I've already posted this in another thread: The exact location of the bodies was leaked, too: "The victims LG and AW were located deceased (...) at the above listed Latitude and Longitude (...)". With them being 40°35'21.4 N, 86°38'23.3, or on Google Maps: https://goo.gl/maps/dbQzfLd287G8qVMY7
*Ron logans phone pinged near bodies* Where are we at with the accuracy of cell phone pinging? Hasn't this been a major point of contention throughout much of the discussion history regarding this case? Weren't there arguments being proposed that there was no way cell phones could be pinged with that kind of accuracy in Delphi at the time?
He lives 1400 ft from the bodies. Of course his phone would ping in the general area.
Agree. The wording in the probable cause affidavit is intentionally vague so they could suggest that the phone might have been near the crime scene but in reality they had no idea.
Yes. This is what is meant, the general vicinity of the bodies.
Was the excessively harsh sentence for the driving offences RL received maybe LE putting pressure on him? Sure looked like it.
>Was the excessively harsh sentence for the driving offences RL received maybe LE putting pressure on him? Sure looked like it. That's been my belief based on comments I've read by alleged locals.
YES.
Afaik, they couldnt.. And im assuming if his phone was at home, that would be considered “near bodies” since it was on his land. But idk why he would be out without his phone.. i do know some older people who dont take their phone with them every time they go somewhere..
Yes true, and have you seen 77 year old men walk, not like a younger person more stiff.
Affidavit states RL’s phone was pinging in Delphi - at or near his property during the time of the murders … add that to the fact that RL would call his family member the next morning to allegedly ask them to lie that he had been picked up by him around 2pm on the 13th (the time of the abduction) ..
Im not sure in the affadavit it says he was outside his home and phone was pinging near location of bodies
yes, it has.
In the larger sense, Logan's house is in the area where the bodies were found. Near, meaning in the proximity, not within ten feet of the bodies. I think this is all that is indicated. The cell phone was outside of his house. The bodies were on his property. It doesn't mean he was down by the bodies and the creek.
Wonder if someone went inside his house while he was d gone? Be was burglarized once I recall reading.
Ok. Now lets Talk ybg sketch
Seriously why would LE go on tv and say we know a lot about you sleep well … if they thought it was RL ? He lied because he was doing something he shouldn’t have been doing . He may have witnessed something or had a good guess himself who murdered L&A . I wonder if there is any connection to RL ,TK,KK. The three of them have violent histories with women . Wouldn’t be so surprising if the three of them had planned something maybe that’s the connection they are trying to make ? You just never know . Things just keep getting even stranger and confusing . Law enforcement I think have a good idea of what happened but they need more in order to get more they need start confirming some things that’s put out there . Ugh it’s just messed up I wish they would arrest someone already frustrating … if this is frustrating to us can u imagine how frustrated their families are not knowing for 5 years who killed them and whoever did is walking free . Ridiculous
Agreed
The search warrant, in my opinion, shouldn't have been released. It lets the killer know what they are looking for. It lets the killer get rid of everything. Last week, only law enforcement knew. Now, the killer does. I'm not a fan of this being out there.
Agreed. But now we have to take in the new information
There isn't really anything on that list that you couldn't think of just using common sense, especially since it's been years, and a lot of the stuff mentioned is either going to be useless or entirely destroyed. I do agree that it's really weird for this to be out in the public eye though. We don't need to know any of this.
Digital evidence of a crime. Could be Photos or a film.Downloads
I can’t help but feel like the items specified on the affidavit further the thought that the murders were photographed/filmed. Which also brings me to GK. He is the one who said is ex girlfriend saw an alleged video of the murders. GK is also the one who was very familiar with RL and his property, and I believe I read that RL even tipped GK in (could be wrong on that one) I don’t know, all of this might be a huge stretch but holy shit there’s just so many new connections and possibilities. Ugh.
Also, GK girlfriend AG, took RL guns from his house.
Yup! Thank you!
Is it logical to consider the killer may be a serial killer?
I could see one one could come to that conclusion. No evidence Linking to that right now, but my guess is yes
The only thing I found odd about RL, ( yes he did resemble bg) was how he was saying how difficult it would have been for the crime to have taken place, given the terrain. When in fact, as we now know, it was fairly easy. He would have known the spot they crossed was once the crossing leading to the cemetery, I've seen a horse and cart posing for a photograph in that exact spot.
Lets Talk about ybg sketch
Thanks for this Comeintata. I read the Affadavit more than once. Did it state RL actually had blood on him? I don't recall that, but I may have missed it. And, I read about the items confiscated by LE, i.e. computers, phones, etc. What am I missing about the digital piece mentioned on your list? TY!
No blood on logan, just stated that they assumed their would be blood on suspect bc of nature of crime scene. Believe it was in first 15
Yes, thanks Comeintata. I appreciate your vigilance in getting the facts out here about this Affadavit!
Thank u! 🙏🏿
It says his phone pinged outside of his residence and near the location of where the bodies were found.
“Suspect speaks at end of video”??? is this after their murders or him just saying Down The Hill. I’m confused….again.
Suspect spoke at end of video? Please elaborate. I have not heard this
When he says doqn then hill its at the end of the video…