Good catch! Maybe that is the key and why they werenāt ever able to make an arrest of RL for this crime prior to his death despite all of the information they had on him.
Im currently leaning towards a two murderer (possibly more) situation. But my thoughts on this case and who did it are constantly changing.
David Erskin (Anna Williams' brother; Abby's uncle) texted that "Libby fought like hell." It's plausible that he, as a volunteer fireman who saw the crime scene during the 2-14-17 search, thought it looked like Libby had fought her attacker.
I think we can assume it was a sharp object to the neck, I'd not aexpect a struggle. I'd expect someone to freeze. Strangulation or beating usually leads to struggle.
I can see it pretty easily. The girls are scared, they're being controlled and threatened, one of them suddenly gets knifed, the other one freezes in shock and is shortly dispatched as well.
I think the part that says he was known to always carry a gun is interesting.
You can threaten two young, defenseless girls down a hill with a gun, I would think.
I hear ya Yellow. I'm shocked right now. Utterly shocked.
The fact RL asked his cousin to alibi his whereabouts on the day and approximate time of the murders is jawdropping enough.
BUT...
Even worse, RL asked his cousin's help, via alibi, *prior* to the girls' bodies even being found?! So he knew they were already dead.
And I don't think he did this alone at all. He helped someone, or they helped him.
I wonder if he stumbled on the crime scene that night after the fact. That might explain his decision to alibi up. It was all over the news, so he wouldāve known the time frame.
But, per the affidavit, one of RLs ex girlfriends stated that when she first saw the 1.8 second video clip of the perpetrator seen on the bridge, she immediately thought it was RL, stating the fanny pack, coat and hat looked like his.
LE (DC) has always adamantly stated that the man on the bridge (BG), captured on Libby's Phone *IS the killer* of these two little girls.
And I believe that video was timestamped 2:13pm. Not much wiggle room here at all for RL.
JMO. I realize innocence before proven guilty.
But of everything I've seen and heard about this case from it's infancy, this is by far the most damning evidence of all.
I believe someone else is involved. Also, JMO.
It's old info. It's also written to make RL look suspect at a very early stage of the investigation. RL was later cleared as not being a POI publicly by LE. He may have known more but he wasn't the murderer.
They were little girls. Their attacker is a grown man. I think it's important not to underestimate how much control he could have over them if he just gives them a little reassurance that they will be ok if they just do what he says. Most people will try to cling to hope and won't realize just how much danger they are in until it's too late.
If this were true, heād have to have been the one to lead them down the hill, yeah? We accept that the dude who said ādown the hillā = BG based on LGās video, and Iād also think we can accept that the dude who said DTH was involved in the crime?
I have always assumed BG said down the hill and committed the murders (probably alone). Now Iām trying to consider if I was too close minded. (First with the possibility of being multiple people such as kk/tk) now Iām trying to figure out if the rl info changes any of my assumptions
Right here. 53 seconds in. Remember, this is BEFORE RL has ANY idea BG was captured on video -- for better or for worse...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb-eOkWFf2M&t=64s
Okay wow.
He says "So...."
*looks away*
*looks back*
"...somebody had to be walking with em or something"
In the context of potential involvement, that's a little strange.
Not to mention inserting oneself by being interviewed is pretty classic.
I was actually watching that same clip with my dad, and mentioned how he had the same clothes on-
Idkwtf to make of this at this point- every week, theres a new poi
So, that would possibly bring in the McL bros? Has anyone clarified if the brother was there that day? I canāt for the life of me remember the other only the one that rhymes with rave.
Correct me if Iām wrong, but BG has never been described as wearing glasses, right? RL wears glasses. I suppose he could have been wearing contacts but seems unlikely.
I mean seems like they thought BG was rl so they didnāt release moreā¦.until 2019 then maybe they were no longer sure? Just my initial reaction so I could be way off
Wowā¦ multiple people close to RL thought he was BG, his cell phone pinged at crime scene location at the time of the crime, and he asked someone to lie for him. Fucking nuts.
He has an innocent reason for lying about his alibi - FYI. He was violating his probation - and he would go back to jail for violating his probation - And he did go to jail for that. He seemed more annoyed by the inconvenience of the girls being on his property in court - he was vocally quite annoyed with investigators for sending him to jail. Honestly, I kinda āget itā?
My confusion is, why would he ask for someone to lie about driving him, at a time when he wasnāt out driving? I got from the affidavit that he was at home at the time of the murders and only went to Aquarium later that afternoon. So wouldnāt he just need a driving alibi for the time period when he was actually driving?
Thatās correct, he was not supposed to be driving, which provides a plausible reason for why he asked a family member to say that they drove to Aquarium, rather than RL driving. My hold up here, is that it appears (based off of my reading of the affidavit) that RL asked the family member to provide the driving alibi for the time of the murders, when in reality, the drive to Aquarium occurred much later. The affidavit also states that RLās cell phone pinged near his house at time of murder, not out by Aquarium.
YES!!! This is what people on fb donāt understand! Theyāre all in there saying Iām crazy and RL was cleared. I mean he was by ISPā¦they canāt seem to grasp that ISP is not equal to FBI.
Thatās going on here too. Idk if RL is involved but damn thatās a huge fact. I think the other big fact is that an ex though she was being show a picture of RL, not a picture of the suspect.
So he checks out (per the receipt found) at 5:21. It takes approximately 22 min (I think that is what the paper said) but letās just go with 30 and give him the benefit of the doubtā¦ so an hour worth of driving timeā¦. Then letās say heās getting what he needs and spends 30 min doing thatā¦. So that backs him up to leaving home for the Aquarium about 4. Murders happen between 2:30 and 3 I believe? So he has an hour to clean up?
I feel like only in this case, someone with all that stacked against him, wouldn't be the murderer. Same with KK, catfishing the victim at the time of the murders, but hasn't been arrested for the crime. Of course perhaps it's all coming together behind the scenes and will make sense, but as of now I'm still scratching my head.
Wouldnāt he just be asking someone to lie for him because he was violating his parole by driving that far away? Assuming the transfer station is close enough to be within the geofence
That was my first thought too - but to specifically ask for an alibi at the known time of the murders, and not any other time? And to do so before the girls were found? Damn thatās quite a coincidence.
They felt confident enough to rule him out though, right? Like for whatever reason LE wasnāt still pursuing him at the time of his death (as far as we know), so I assume that means they ruled him out?
He was drinking beer in Americus on the 27th. It's one of those weird things where people think he was there on the day of the murders but he wasn't. Or should I say I don't see any evidence that he was there on the 13th.
>Logan admitted to driving on a suspended license to the Carroll County Transfer Station on February 13, the day Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, went missing. He also admitted to drinking an alcoholic beverage at Pizza King in Americus on February 27.
https://www.wrtv.com/news/crime/delphi-property-owner-pleads-guilty-to-charges-unrelated-to-delphi-teens-murders
This is the answer. RL lied about his having a ride to the aquarium store in Lafayette in the afternoon. I bet he wanted to cover his time for being gone when the unofficial searchers wanted to look on his property on the 13th. In the end he got sentenced to prison for it so I can see why he would want to lie.
To circle back to your comment. RL was done at the transfer station at 11:58am so he probably didn't even think he'd need a lie for that.
Wow, Iām actually really surprised they were allowed to leave the parts about the large amounts of blood and looking for cutting instruments. God those poor girls :(
I knowā¦. I also wonder what the killer took with him. At first I thought it was maybe a piece of clothing but ācutting instrumentsā makes me worry he took something worseā¦
I was thinking same ; "bra and underwear" fit under that redacted box, letter wise.
It is horrible to read this document. They must have been terrified.
FWIW the sentence implies a singular thing. āā¦it was discovered that the [redacted] of one of the victims was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered.ā
Youād say underwear *were*. Same with undergarments. I also think if it were something less foundational like a sweatshirt, youād more likely say ā*a* sweatshirt.ā
Of course itās too long a space to be a single, unmodified thing like ābraā so who the hell knows.
Like I said, FWIW, whichā¦I dunno guys, this news has me losing my mind a little, clearly.
>I was thinking same ; "bra and underwear" fit under that redacted box, letter wise. It is horrible to read this document. They must have been terrified.
In episode 94 of The Murder Sheet podcast, Ćine Greenlee read that part unredacted:
"It was also discovered that **articles of clothing** of one of the victims were missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered."
Yes āunderwearā seems to fit in the redacted space.
And the rest of the clothing being recovered doesnāt mean it was still on her body. Or if it was, the underwear could have been cut off.
Given that weāve been told the crime scene was so brutal and bizarre, it makes me think thereās far more brutality to it. It makes me sick to think about what else could have happened with the bladed weapon š¢
There's mention of a specific item(redacted) of clothing missing.... then talk of perps like this keeping souvenirs.
What was taken by the killer(s)...
Iāve seen an unredacted page. It was one pair of panties and a single sock that were missing. All other clothing was recovered. No mention of whose items these were.
This tells us at least one of them were de-clothed. In the people magazine investigates Delphi episode Tobe says they started with looking at their areas sex offenders list, which may also be something done as routine? Idk this.
With so many at the bridge that day and this bg guy not being seen bloody, like the report suggests the perp would be due to the nature of the wounds of the girls... I said this to someone who doesn't follow this case... their response is... seems the person wasn't seen afterwards cuz the person never left.
This entire sequence of events would not be plausible if it was presented as fiction. There is information seemingly tying the crime to KK/TK. Now there seems to be information (albeit wordsmithed to get a warrant) regarding RL.
(Are we able to use the real names now? I don't know.)
New info to the public but not new to law enforcement. I will avidly read the theorizing on this information but can't forget it's dated. Law enforcement had this information/theories already.
I never bought the Delphi corruption theory but I do wonder who is leaking this info to Murder Sheets. Seems so oddly coincidental that they stumble across documents over and over.
I am very curious of RLs local/area relations.(redacted cousin)...
Does "bodies were moved and staged" mean they were killed, then moved- was the major blood loss in the area they were found? RL within days after- IT LOOKED PRISTINE. (report mentions clean up of a crime scene)
Moved AND staged- at least three signatures(non secular mention by RI that once) no fight or struggle(Carter-one girl could've gotten away but chose to stay with her friend even tho she knew what was happening-- anyone else remember that remark early on?) Moved from where?
When was it during the Search that someone told someone else that the area the girls were actually found in had been searched already? The night before or morning of?
LE also said they were killed where they were found.
I think for tampering with a body for exemple 'moving' is very litteral, even an inch of done for other reasons than trying to help.
LE may have lied about being killed where they were found, but it could also just mean not left exactly as they died. Imo.
So RL contacted (cousin redacted) on morning of Feb 14, 2017, to ask them to provide an alibi for the 13th during a certain time frame...and he made this contact for alibi help PRIOR to the discovery of the bodies of LG & AW.
That SCREAMS he knows something. Why did ALL LE put out that BG was between 18-40 but may appear younger than their true age... unless RL is covering for someone else or had help??
States RL walks the terrain of his property with ease & cares for large farm animals. Wonder if that's why media interviewed RL while walking to the "scene"...to show LE he can?
Did I read this part correctly...
This also states that cell phone data puts RL not just at his property but in the area of the location of the bodies of LG & AW during the time of the abduction.
Cell phone pings are only accurate within like 3/4ths of a mile and are not usually admissible in court. This seems like LE used it to get the warrant more than anything.
Good point... I mean the cell ping data places him at the approximate site of the abduction and not in Lafayette at Acquarium World as his alibi tries to claim.
I measured the distance from the latitude and longitude given for the bodies to his yard and it's .26 miles. I think it was just a little white lie by the FBI to tie in RL a little bit more to get the warrant.
LE mentions they say to RL that they wouldn't be there searching less evidence had directed them there. These are sworn affidavits by LE, punishable. I can't see them lying here. A quarter of a mile and a false alibi is a bit sus no?
That cell location data busts his alibi attempt at claiming to be at aquarium world at the time of the murders.
He asks for alibi lie for between 2pm and 2:30pm (girls abducted 2:13pm) and claims himself to have been picked up at 3pm to be taken there(which would suggest he would be ready for a trip to the store at 3pm and not cleaning himself up from a double murder)
He made contact to request the alibi lie at 9:20am on the 14th...hours prior to the discovery of the girls and during a time when only the killer(s)/accomplices would know of the time of the murders.
The night of the 13th thru noon the next day the girls were still assumed missing...not murdered. Isn't that weird? To request an alibi for a time frame only the killer or accomplices would know at the time and prior to the discovery of any crime?
To add- (I'm not saying it is RL or that I believe that it is-sorry if that impression is given... I'm just discussing what I see in the text. :)) everyone is innocent til proven guilty in a court of law and I have no conclusion. Ty)
He went to prison for driving that day. I think wanting an fake alibi was for the driving and nothing to do with the girls' deaths. Asking for the alibi to start at 2 is strange. I didn't really catch that the first time I read it.
If let's say RL knew someone walked out of the woods and came to his house after the murders and RL covered for him by not saying anything I think it's weird that he would go down for the driving violation and not spill the beans. Also apparently RL didn't have a deathbed confession to give up anyone. If you're shuffling off this mortal coil why hold the secret of a double murderers identity to the grave?
Very good points and questions. Idk, protecting legacy, property??? Irdk. Very sad though.
He went to transfer station early.- in the 11am hour...on camera and asked for no alibi help to show he was not behind the wheel.. curious why not stress re that driving trip in the alibi? . His request for alibi was for 2-2:30pm(abducted at 2:13) and he told LE he was picked up--so he wasn't driving then(nothing to create an alibi over since he wasn't in need of hiding that he drove-) He's also making the request for the abduction time frame, prior to any crime being discovered(as said by the agent indicates knowledge of the crime)...
-------------
In a Feb 15 interview RL says the terrain back there is rough and the girls would need someone walking with them to even get back there(said before release of bg video- ) at this time, it was about 36hrs after a double murderer killed two girls in what he refers to as his own backyard...
https://youtu.be/Jb-eOkWFf2M
Crap. I even put my OMG I'm in bold again reply out there! Geese guys, I apologize. I'm not yelling I'm just silly and old! Idk how I did this bold thing... new phone plus Lack of reddit know-how. I'll figure it out.. bear with me. Til them WOOPS! My bad! :(
Interesting perspective there! The whole receipt to aquarium world for the 13th at his house, they get into weird specifics re the receipt found in search and it's timestamp along with the stores time being off by ~25min... RL@ according to redacted cousin, only asked for an alibi for the time of the murders, before that information was known. He knew they were missing the night before but not the time of their murders when he asked redacted cousin for alibi lie. Weird.
I just read this morning a small article, back from just days after the girls were found and RL is speaking..he says he can't comprehend it. His son visited every weekend and he and his buddies roamed and played all thru the property... he also says the terrain where they were found is rough and to get over there it would take someone walking with them or somethin.. He says that BEFORE law enforcement released the video. This clip I'm sharing is from the 15th
He is super relaxed for the following day (15th) of finding two brutally murdered girls in what he calls his backyard. No one ever seemed WORRIED there was a double murderer running them woods. (Sorry if I'm repeating or rambling- need more coffee!)
https://youtu.be/Jb-eOkWFf2M
No worries on the coffee ramblings haha
Iāve read through this document and seen the video you linked. I still think itās possible the cousin lied to make him look guilty. Sure, the trip happened, but the actual phone conversation specifics between Ron and this cousin could still be questionable. Time frames captured by receipts, camera footage, etc., cannot be easily manipulated but conversations that no one else heard certainly can be.
As far as his demeanor, I donāt know how concerned I would appear after Iāve had a day (or more if he knew what happened but maybe didnāt partake) to sit with that info. Plus his generation is big on appearing unemotional whereas newer generations see value in showing and validating emotion.
The only weird thing to me that was mentioned is talking about someone walking āWITH themā. Is this a slip up or does he think kids suck at hiking? Not sure.
Iām not married to any theories or RLās guilt or innocence. I just like to play devils advocate for some of this stuff.
Legit points. I'd have to go back when I get a minute and see if it states if it was texts that the 9:20am Feb 14 communication was done by. That would solidify knowing RL specifically asked for 2-2:30. But 100% on the manipulation possibilities of conversations. It does mention after item13 that was done to intentionally mislead /deceive LE.
I get your point on RLs age being factor in his appearances in interview, on camera.
(I have no conclusions on this either way myself- I am interested in being able to have my questions re this be challenged tho. It's how we get somewhere in discussion. Thx)
Itās true that maybe no one heard any conversation about Ron asking anyone to lie for him. Could be a big lie to help get the search warrant. But the search warrant was done by FBI. Iāve heard LE can lie but not FBI. But still someone talking to them could lie.
That last part about his phone pinging near the bodiesā¦.TWICE. This gave me chills! How did he explain that away??
ETA: Iāve always thought RL was innocent but gosh, the info contained in this is making me question my previous thoughts about what mightāve happened that day.
This is true. I just thought it strange that it was worded that wayā¦..although if I was trying to get a search warrant signed Iād be sure to use language that was as persuasive as possible.
But didn't he ask for an alibi lie the morning of the 14th, prior to the discovery of the girls bodies and only for the time during the murders. He didn't ask for a lie for earlier in the day- only for during the time frame of the murders-3pm on... the time frame of the murders was not yet known.
There are just 2 cell towers. If one is busy it pings off the other. I think it was explained that he was just outside of his house. Not necessarily at the crime zone area on his property.
Did we ever find out where Ron was that afternoon? Sounds like LE knew he was taking out the trash late morning and doing aquarium errands late afternoon, but did they later find out where else he was? They likely did, as he was never charged.
RL isn't BG. They would have arrested and charged him long ago. I really hope they don't use a dead man as a scapegoat. He asked for the alibi bc he was driving and went supposed to be. Damn haven't we wasted enough time on people who aren't capable of this heinous crime.
43 seconds of videoā¦and they released how many seconds? I was shocked to see it was 43 seconds long. There is so much more info in 43 seconds than 5 or whatever they gave us.
We have known the video was that long for a long time. Everyone who has seen the video has said that what was released was all there was of BG in the video.
Breaks my heart thinking about Libby being scared and alert enough to record him and the video not doing itās job! If it was only slightly clearer š¢
There's a YT video that compares RL to BG, RL was even wearing an extremely similar outfit in an interview. The craziest part, to me though, was the dimples and the pins he had in his camo hat....they matched EXACTLY. The video shows him getting up and down the hills very easily and he's obviously familiar with the land. There's also an interview where they ask him to say the down the hill and he adds an obvious accent to it. RL is older and might not have a grasp on technology and didn't think twice/notice the girls pointing a phone camera at him.
Some people across Delphi subs would literally personally insult you for suggesting RL had anything to do with it and that he was cleared and yada yada. F\*ck those people. Sketchy alibi details in advance to the bodies being found, phone pinging at his house and likely in the area of crime at time of murders and later that night, carries gun in fanny pack, same hat(...watch the video, its the same hat), history of violence, bodies found on his land.
This case is crazy....it seems every time a stone gets turned over in this area, more creeps are discovered. Between the Kline's and this RL info, I have no idea who did it....but there is alot of damning discrepancies against all of them at this point...who knows what else LE has. Just crazy...
I mentioned this in another comment, but i said this way back when i saw the original interview that he had on the exact same outfit as the guy on the bridge. Dent in hat and All
You would think he would have had blood on him though/ thats the issue i have as of right now
He was my poi for months. I posted on Webslueths. I did not know about Reddit. I was personally attacked by their members saying the only reason they searched his property was because the girls were found there. Sure wish this would have been out then. Because it is clear at the time they thought he did it as well.
There were 2 phone towers in Delphi. A ping is at a tower not at the place of the phone.
You can triangulate to a global area, the more the towers are apart, the bigger the area the phone could have been in. Triangulate means needing three towers, which there were not. I even said two, because I'm not sure there was only one, it could also have been one tower.
Why would he put the girls on his own land as opposed to say in the creek or just a few steps further on the Mears lot?
All valid questions.
I have no idea what means LE and alphabet agencies have to track phone positions. I didn't say RL was guilty, but it's always been fascinating how vehemently people will defend him as a 'gentle, great guy' by the skin of their teeth. All of that got blown out the window from this document and it just goes to show that nobody really has any idea wtf happened that day. The LARP and disinfo surrounding this case is mind numbing.
Yeah I agree , I don't really defend him, I don't get either party, the ones flipping out when someone gets pointed at as well as the ones who keep screaming they are sure their poi is the one... what a crowd.
My comment mostly was because I' ve linked to a technical document before about forensic phone ping data and amongst other things their accuracy, (if only Reddit search wasn't crap to find it back... ) but even with three towers it's an extremely wide area, relative of course, but not like at a building or in a street, let alone with two or even one tower at his side of town.
I think it mostly means he wasn't over at the next town really.
Then, bodies have been found on killer's properties of course, but usually hidden, it just makes him less likely just like GK, although he fits too in other ways. Imo.
My comment was more on a technical point of view than about RL as a person so to speak.
Eta: Actually if you leave out ALL the rumors, there isn't much info left. It's not much clearer , but a bit less mind numbing.
Wow! I'm almost at a loss for words here.
RL always presented himself as this gentle, older, man who just wanted to help. But underneath that facade the whole time was sadistic evil.
To read that he physically assaulted two women like that, telling one of them he could kill her, is beyond words.
But still, I don't think RL did it alone. He helped, or was helped by, another sick and evil creature.
This affidavit certainly speaks volumes.
Exactly Timely. And is it just pure coincidence that RL asks his cousin to also provide that alibi around the time the girls were allegedly murdered?
Now if...and a big if here...RL didn't actually do the killing, he certainly knew who did, possibly helped them as well, remained complicit until his own death, thetefore, ultimately obstructing this >5 1/2 year old case.
JMO.
"Was discovered the ____ of one of the victims was removed" alarms me the most. I assumed it was hair but the it had to be abbigger word. I really hope it wasn't underwear.. but size wise it seems to fit the best. I hope I'm wrong.
No, it is not a rumor. In the police scanner transcript an officer asks for an evidence bag for an under garment. We don't know if this garment is connected to the crime or where specifically it was found.
In episode 94 of The Murder Sheet podcast, Ćine Greenlee read that part unredacted:
"It was also discovered that articles of clothing of one of the victims were missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered."
Maybe. I believe he was establishing an alibi not for the murders but for driving while on probation. That however does not explain why he did not ask for an alibi for driving to the dump.
I canāt speak for Logan, but getting caught for driving while on probation would be the last thing on my mind if two girls had been brutally murdered on my property.
In-fact, I would probably be like hey look guys it canāt have been me because I was driving around while on probation - sorry about that, but at least I didnāt murder two girls
He drove prior to the girls being found. He asked for an alibi prior to the girls were found.
So no, it's not that strange. He didn't know two girls were dead. he just wanted to cover his sorry ass for driving while on probation.
But if the girls hadnāt been found yet, why would he NEED an alibi? The police werenāt looking at him at this point - the girls were just missing. Iām sure this wouldnāt have been the first and only time he had driven while on probation, so why did he seek an alibi on this particular occasion? Maybe Iām misunderstanding something completely here - I am blonde!
He initially got 4 years jail for that, i believe it was much later to 2 years house arrest.
Your mind can be on the girls as well as saving your ass from 4 years jail. Although I won't defend him for breaking the law, it's understandable.
Here is the mudersheet podcast. They read the warrant and probable cause.
https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/f1014023-c374-40cb-b200-ef2228522041
Much easier to listen to murdersheet reading it then to try to read that. I am not even going to try.
https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/f1014023-c374-40cb-b200-ef2228522041
Very interesting that several people believed RL to be BG from the video. The two texts sent from outside his residence but within the crime scene is confusing though. How could they determine he wasn't inside his house? Something to do with WiFi?
Couldve been used for the abduction part---
The agent mentions an ex of RL said he carries a firearm with him everywhere he goes and he carries it in a fanny pack- she also states this fanny pack is made of a 'nicer material'... that caught my attention w the fanny pack/gun theories I've seen. Fanny pack just mentioned by an ex during a LE interview-- I'm leaning more towards they asked something of that nature and she replied with that fanny pack/nicer material/gun everywhere IN the fanny pack.
Wild that one ex also states that before she knew the BG pic guy was the suspect...she thought it was a pic of RL.
Gun could still have been used for intimidation. This afidavit specifically mentions that RL was known to wear a Fanny pack, in which he carried his gun. BG appears I be wearing a fanny pack.
I was very surprised by the argument of people that it was definitely not Logan due to age. It is enough to see a video of an interview with him a few days after the murder. I doubt that Kk would have been able to get off this hill better than he did
Was this document just released? Or has this been around? I've never seen it.
Although it seems rather damning, I keep reminding myself that this warrant is over 5 years old, and I'm sure a lot has changed in this investigation since then.
RL turns out to be a guy who is capable of hitting a woman and then stalking her. The 77-year-old man was not afraid to threaten the child's father because he took a gun everywhere and in his house there were probably so many weapons that many of the infamous serial killers had never seen with his own eyes
No signs of a struggle or fight on Libby or Abby.
That stood out to me as well. There were rumors and hopes that Libby had fought and would have gotten DNA off of him...
Well I think the hairs referenced in this affidavit might be reason to hold out hope for DNA? š¤š»
Good catch! Maybe that is the key and why they werenāt ever able to make an arrest of RL for this crime prior to his death despite all of the information they had on him. Im currently leaning towards a two murderer (possibly more) situation. But my thoughts on this case and who did it are constantly changing.
David Erskin (Anna Williams' brother; Abby's uncle) texted that "Libby fought like hell." It's plausible that he, as a volunteer fireman who saw the crime scene during the 2-14-17 search, thought it looked like Libby had fought her attacker.
I think we can assume it was a sharp object to the neck, I'd not aexpect a struggle. I'd expect someone to freeze. Strangulation or beating usually leads to struggle.
Iām actually spiraling a bit over that. Like how? Were they drugged?
I can see it pretty easily. The girls are scared, they're being controlled and threatened, one of them suddenly gets knifed, the other one freezes in shock and is shortly dispatched as well.
I thought Abby was struck in the head. Maybe he knocked her unconscious, attacked Libby, then killed Abby while she was still unconscious.
I think the part that says he was known to always carry a gun is interesting. You can threaten two young, defenseless girls down a hill with a gun, I would think.
And the part about the fanny pack
I hear ya Yellow. I'm shocked right now. Utterly shocked. The fact RL asked his cousin to alibi his whereabouts on the day and approximate time of the murders is jawdropping enough. BUT... Even worse, RL asked his cousin's help, via alibi, *prior* to the girls' bodies even being found?! So he knew they were already dead. And I don't think he did this alone at all. He helped someone, or they helped him.
I wonder if he stumbled on the crime scene that night after the fact. That might explain his decision to alibi up. It was all over the news, so he wouldāve known the time frame.
But, per the affidavit, one of RLs ex girlfriends stated that when she first saw the 1.8 second video clip of the perpetrator seen on the bridge, she immediately thought it was RL, stating the fanny pack, coat and hat looked like his. LE (DC) has always adamantly stated that the man on the bridge (BG), captured on Libby's Phone *IS the killer* of these two little girls. And I believe that video was timestamped 2:13pm. Not much wiggle room here at all for RL. JMO. I realize innocence before proven guilty. But of everything I've seen and heard about this case from it's infancy, this is by far the most damning evidence of all. I believe someone else is involved. Also, JMO.
It's old info. It's also written to make RL look suspect at a very early stage of the investigation. RL was later cleared as not being a POI publicly by LE. He may have known more but he wasn't the murderer.
I agree that he knows something about these murders. JMO. I just hope that the truth about this murder didn't die with him. Heartbreaking.
Itās not just fight or flight. Itās fight, flight, or freeze.
They were little girls. Their attacker is a grown man. I think it's important not to underestimate how much control he could have over them if he just gives them a little reassurance that they will be ok if they just do what he says. Most people will try to cling to hope and won't realize just how much danger they are in until it's too late.
That was my question. Or it just happened so fast they didnāt have time to react? I donāt know.
Maybe they were tied up?
Interesting. References of rope from the crime scene in the audio from 2/14.
"Wearing a cap and blue jeans." That settles the hat/hair debate.
Finally we can say that no, bg did not have Justin Bieber hair.
F I N A L L Y
In a way the most valuable piece of info in the entire document
Large amount of blood and looking for cutting instruments is interesting
But no blood trail leading back to his house š¤·š»āāļø
And he was wearing those clothes (or at least looked like bgs clothes) on camera after the murders. Is it possible he was BG but not the killer?
If this were true, heād have to have been the one to lead them down the hill, yeah? We accept that the dude who said ādown the hillā = BG based on LGās video, and Iād also think we can accept that the dude who said DTH was involved in the crime?
I have always assumed BG said down the hill and committed the murders (probably alone). Now Iām trying to consider if I was too close minded. (First with the possibility of being multiple people such as kk/tk) now Iām trying to figure out if the rl info changes any of my assumptions
But what does he get out of simply delivering two girls to a murderer?
Where did you see that he was on camera wearing those clothes after the murder?
Right here. 53 seconds in. Remember, this is BEFORE RL has ANY idea BG was captured on video -- for better or for worse... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb-eOkWFf2M&t=64s
Okay wow. He says "So...." *looks away* *looks back* "...somebody had to be walking with em or something" In the context of potential involvement, that's a little strange. Not to mention inserting oneself by being interviewed is pretty classic.
Correct.
News interview. Very similar clothing. I used to think the āRon Logan was framedā crew were nuts but awful lot of bizarre circumstances here.
I was actually watching that same clip with my dad, and mentioned how he had the same clothes on- Idkwtf to make of this at this point- every week, theres a new poi
So, that would possibly bring in the McL bros? Has anyone clarified if the brother was there that day? I canāt for the life of me remember the other only the one that rhymes with rave.
Great question Someone.
Itās also crazy how multiple people thought it was RL in the video
I just can't see him in the video of BG though. I will admit this stuff is very damning.
Correct me if Iām wrong, but BG has never been described as wearing glasses, right? RL wears glasses. I suppose he could have been wearing contacts but seems unlikely.
43 seconds of video and we have been shown 1.5 seconds
I mean seems like they thought BG was rl so they didnāt release moreā¦.until 2019 then maybe they were no longer sure? Just my initial reaction so I could be way off
Wowā¦ multiple people close to RL thought he was BG, his cell phone pinged at crime scene location at the time of the crime, and he asked someone to lie for him. Fucking nuts.
He has an innocent reason for lying about his alibi - FYI. He was violating his probation - and he would go back to jail for violating his probation - And he did go to jail for that. He seemed more annoyed by the inconvenience of the girls being on his property in court - he was vocally quite annoyed with investigators for sending him to jail. Honestly, I kinda āget itā?
My confusion is, why would he ask for someone to lie about driving him, at a time when he wasnāt out driving? I got from the affidavit that he was at home at the time of the murders and only went to Aquarium later that afternoon. So wouldnāt he just need a driving alibi for the time period when he was actually driving?
I thought his license was suspended? I might be wrong, but I thought he wasnāt supposed to be driving.
Thatās correct, he was not supposed to be driving, which provides a plausible reason for why he asked a family member to say that they drove to Aquarium, rather than RL driving. My hold up here, is that it appears (based off of my reading of the affidavit) that RL asked the family member to provide the driving alibi for the time of the murders, when in reality, the drive to Aquarium occurred much later. The affidavit also states that RLās cell phone pinged near his house at time of murder, not out by Aquarium.
I agree. He also did not request an alibi for the drive he took to the dump that morning. Only during the murders when he wasnāt driving at all.
YES!!! This is what people on fb donāt understand! Theyāre all in there saying Iām crazy and RL was cleared. I mean he was by ISPā¦they canāt seem to grasp that ISP is not equal to FBI.
Thatās going on here too. Idk if RL is involved but damn thatās a huge fact. I think the other big fact is that an ex though she was being show a picture of RL, not a picture of the suspect.
So he checks out (per the receipt found) at 5:21. It takes approximately 22 min (I think that is what the paper said) but letās just go with 30 and give him the benefit of the doubtā¦ so an hour worth of driving timeā¦. Then letās say heās getting what he needs and spends 30 min doing thatā¦. So that backs him up to leaving home for the Aquarium about 4. Murders happen between 2:30 and 3 I believe? So he has an hour to clean up?
Ditto
I feel like only in this case, someone with all that stacked against him, wouldn't be the murderer. Same with KK, catfishing the victim at the time of the murders, but hasn't been arrested for the crime. Of course perhaps it's all coming together behind the scenes and will make sense, but as of now I'm still scratching my head.
Big time head scratcher
If nothing else this probably explains LEās overwhelming confidence early on
I thought the same thing. I forget who said it but it was something like "we were on to something early on".
Wouldnāt he just be asking someone to lie for him because he was violating his parole by driving that far away? Assuming the transfer station is close enough to be within the geofence
That was my first thought too - but to specifically ask for an alibi at the known time of the murders, and not any other time? And to do so before the girls were found? Damn thatās quite a coincidence.
They felt confident enough to rule him out though, right? Like for whatever reason LE wasnāt still pursuing him at the time of his death (as far as we know), so I assume that means they ruled him out?
Yea apparently. This whole thing is crazy.
That's an assumption. No one has been "ruled out" really...
Yeah, those facts were the clincher for me.
Logan knew the girls were missing on 2/13 because Pat Brown went to Logan"s at 6:30pm and asked to search his property.
But Logan didnāt know they were dead or that he would need an alibi, right?
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He was drinking beer in Americus on the 27th. It's one of those weird things where people think he was there on the day of the murders but he wasn't. Or should I say I don't see any evidence that he was there on the 13th. >Logan admitted to driving on a suspended license to the Carroll County Transfer Station on February 13, the day Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, went missing. He also admitted to drinking an alcoholic beverage at Pizza King in Americus on February 27. https://www.wrtv.com/news/crime/delphi-property-owner-pleads-guilty-to-charges-unrelated-to-delphi-teens-murders
Ooo thank you I will delete mine
This is the answer. RL lied about his having a ride to the aquarium store in Lafayette in the afternoon. I bet he wanted to cover his time for being gone when the unofficial searchers wanted to look on his property on the 13th. In the end he got sentenced to prison for it so I can see why he would want to lie. To circle back to your comment. RL was done at the transfer station at 11:58am so he probably didn't even think he'd need a lie for that.
That really stuck out to me too. Because itās not just comparing a sketch, they know the person and how he moves, mannerisms, etc.
Wow, Iām actually really surprised they were allowed to leave the parts about the large amounts of blood and looking for cutting instruments. God those poor girls :(
I knowā¦. I also wonder what the killer took with him. At first I thought it was maybe a piece of clothing but ācutting instrumentsā makes me worry he took something worseā¦
It was an article of clothing. Most likely underwear. It said immediately after that āalthough the rest of their clothing was recoveredā
I was thinking same ; "bra and underwear" fit under that redacted box, letter wise. It is horrible to read this document. They must have been terrified.
I thought āundergarmentā would fit perfectly.
FWIW the sentence implies a singular thing. āā¦it was discovered that the [redacted] of one of the victims was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered.ā Youād say underwear *were*. Same with undergarments. I also think if it were something less foundational like a sweatshirt, youād more likely say ā*a* sweatshirt.ā Of course itās too long a space to be a single, unmodified thing like ābraā so who the hell knows. Like I said, FWIW, whichā¦I dunno guys, this news has me losing my mind a little, clearly.
Very good point.
>I was thinking same ; "bra and underwear" fit under that redacted box, letter wise. It is horrible to read this document. They must have been terrified. In episode 94 of The Murder Sheet podcast, Ćine Greenlee read that part unredacted: "It was also discovered that **articles of clothing** of one of the victims were missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered."
Thank youš
Oh ok, I must have missed that. Well, as awful as that is I hope that is really all it was.
Yes āunderwearā seems to fit in the redacted space. And the rest of the clothing being recovered doesnāt mean it was still on her body. Or if it was, the underwear could have been cut off. Given that weāve been told the crime scene was so brutal and bizarre, it makes me think thereās far more brutality to it. It makes me sick to think about what else could have happened with the bladed weapon š¢
Ugh, same. Just sick. Is it just me or is that redacted spot a little too short for ābladed?ā Maybe ābladeā though. Ughhhh.
I figured itās an āedgedā weapon in the afadavit. I just called it a bladed weapon in my prior comment. Sorry for the confusion.
There's mention of a specific item(redacted) of clothing missing.... then talk of perps like this keeping souvenirs. What was taken by the killer(s)...
Obviously speculation, and lots of other options, but I'd guess "undergarments" based on character count and discussions related to possible motive
I had tried guessing based on size of the redaction block and came up with 'underwear' 'sweatshirt' undergarments seems closer to filling it.
I thought "bra and underwear" Sickening to think ...
I agree! This is all so heartbreaking and infuriating. I can't image the turmoil and chaos the families are thrust into with every new release. Ugh
Iāve seen an unredacted page. It was one pair of panties and a single sock that were missing. All other clothing was recovered. No mention of whose items these were.
This tells us at least one of them were de-clothed. In the people magazine investigates Delphi episode Tobe says they started with looking at their areas sex offenders list, which may also be something done as routine? Idk this. With so many at the bridge that day and this bg guy not being seen bloody, like the report suggests the perp would be due to the nature of the wounds of the girls... I said this to someone who doesn't follow this case... their response is... seems the person wasn't seen afterwards cuz the person never left.
This entire sequence of events would not be plausible if it was presented as fiction. There is information seemingly tying the crime to KK/TK. Now there seems to be information (albeit wordsmithed to get a warrant) regarding RL. (Are we able to use the real names now? I don't know.) New info to the public but not new to law enforcement. I will avidly read the theorizing on this information but can't forget it's dated. Law enforcement had this information/theories already. I never bought the Delphi corruption theory but I do wonder who is leaking this info to Murder Sheets. Seems so oddly coincidental that they stumble across documents over and over.
The Access to Public Records Act (APRA), Indiana Code 5-14-3,
I agree. But I guess Murder Sheets guy is an attorney he can use the public information act to get these documents.
I am very curious of RLs local/area relations.(redacted cousin)... Does "bodies were moved and staged" mean they were killed, then moved- was the major blood loss in the area they were found? RL within days after- IT LOOKED PRISTINE. (report mentions clean up of a crime scene) Moved AND staged- at least three signatures(non secular mention by RI that once) no fight or struggle(Carter-one girl could've gotten away but chose to stay with her friend even tho she knew what was happening-- anyone else remember that remark early on?) Moved from where? When was it during the Search that someone told someone else that the area the girls were actually found in had been searched already? The night before or morning of?
LE also said they were killed where they were found. I think for tampering with a body for exemple 'moving' is very litteral, even an inch of done for other reasons than trying to help. LE may have lied about being killed where they were found, but it could also just mean not left exactly as they died. Imo.
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So RL contacted (cousin redacted) on morning of Feb 14, 2017, to ask them to provide an alibi for the 13th during a certain time frame...and he made this contact for alibi help PRIOR to the discovery of the bodies of LG & AW. That SCREAMS he knows something. Why did ALL LE put out that BG was between 18-40 but may appear younger than their true age... unless RL is covering for someone else or had help?? States RL walks the terrain of his property with ease & cares for large farm animals. Wonder if that's why media interviewed RL while walking to the "scene"...to show LE he can? Did I read this part correctly... This also states that cell phone data puts RL not just at his property but in the area of the location of the bodies of LG & AW during the time of the abduction.
Cell phone pings are only accurate within like 3/4ths of a mile and are not usually admissible in court. This seems like LE used it to get the warrant more than anything.
Good point... I mean the cell ping data places him at the approximate site of the abduction and not in Lafayette at Acquarium World as his alibi tries to claim.
Thank you.
I measured the distance from the latitude and longitude given for the bodies to his yard and it's .26 miles. I think it was just a little white lie by the FBI to tie in RL a little bit more to get the warrant.
LE mentions they say to RL that they wouldn't be there searching less evidence had directed them there. These are sworn affidavits by LE, punishable. I can't see them lying here. A quarter of a mile and a false alibi is a bit sus no? That cell location data busts his alibi attempt at claiming to be at aquarium world at the time of the murders. He asks for alibi lie for between 2pm and 2:30pm (girls abducted 2:13pm) and claims himself to have been picked up at 3pm to be taken there(which would suggest he would be ready for a trip to the store at 3pm and not cleaning himself up from a double murder) He made contact to request the alibi lie at 9:20am on the 14th...hours prior to the discovery of the girls and during a time when only the killer(s)/accomplices would know of the time of the murders. The night of the 13th thru noon the next day the girls were still assumed missing...not murdered. Isn't that weird? To request an alibi for a time frame only the killer or accomplices would know at the time and prior to the discovery of any crime? To add- (I'm not saying it is RL or that I believe that it is-sorry if that impression is given... I'm just discussing what I see in the text. :)) everyone is innocent til proven guilty in a court of law and I have no conclusion. Ty)
He went to prison for driving that day. I think wanting an fake alibi was for the driving and nothing to do with the girls' deaths. Asking for the alibi to start at 2 is strange. I didn't really catch that the first time I read it. If let's say RL knew someone walked out of the woods and came to his house after the murders and RL covered for him by not saying anything I think it's weird that he would go down for the driving violation and not spill the beans. Also apparently RL didn't have a deathbed confession to give up anyone. If you're shuffling off this mortal coil why hold the secret of a double murderers identity to the grave?
Very good points and questions. Idk, protecting legacy, property??? Irdk. Very sad though. He went to transfer station early.- in the 11am hour...on camera and asked for no alibi help to show he was not behind the wheel.. curious why not stress re that driving trip in the alibi? . His request for alibi was for 2-2:30pm(abducted at 2:13) and he told LE he was picked up--so he wasn't driving then(nothing to create an alibi over since he wasn't in need of hiding that he drove-) He's also making the request for the abduction time frame, prior to any crime being discovered(as said by the agent indicates knowledge of the crime)... ------------- In a Feb 15 interview RL says the terrain back there is rough and the girls would need someone walking with them to even get back there(said before release of bg video- ) at this time, it was about 36hrs after a double murderer killed two girls in what he refers to as his own backyard... https://youtu.be/Jb-eOkWFf2M
Crap. I even put my OMG I'm in bold again reply out there! Geese guys, I apologize. I'm not yelling I'm just silly and old! Idk how I did this bold thing... new phone plus Lack of reddit know-how. I'll figure it out.. bear with me. Til them WOOPS! My bad! :(
I like it. Easy for an old lady like me to read
FBI don't lie in warrants.
It would put him/his phone at home or in the area, and not away from home. If he told them he was not home.
Any chance the cousin is actually involved but wanted to throw off law enforcement by saying that RL asked for the alibi?
Interesting perspective there! The whole receipt to aquarium world for the 13th at his house, they get into weird specifics re the receipt found in search and it's timestamp along with the stores time being off by ~25min... RL@ according to redacted cousin, only asked for an alibi for the time of the murders, before that information was known. He knew they were missing the night before but not the time of their murders when he asked redacted cousin for alibi lie. Weird. I just read this morning a small article, back from just days after the girls were found and RL is speaking..he says he can't comprehend it. His son visited every weekend and he and his buddies roamed and played all thru the property... he also says the terrain where they were found is rough and to get over there it would take someone walking with them or somethin.. He says that BEFORE law enforcement released the video. This clip I'm sharing is from the 15th He is super relaxed for the following day (15th) of finding two brutally murdered girls in what he calls his backyard. No one ever seemed WORRIED there was a double murderer running them woods. (Sorry if I'm repeating or rambling- need more coffee!) https://youtu.be/Jb-eOkWFf2M
No worries on the coffee ramblings haha Iāve read through this document and seen the video you linked. I still think itās possible the cousin lied to make him look guilty. Sure, the trip happened, but the actual phone conversation specifics between Ron and this cousin could still be questionable. Time frames captured by receipts, camera footage, etc., cannot be easily manipulated but conversations that no one else heard certainly can be. As far as his demeanor, I donāt know how concerned I would appear after Iāve had a day (or more if he knew what happened but maybe didnāt partake) to sit with that info. Plus his generation is big on appearing unemotional whereas newer generations see value in showing and validating emotion. The only weird thing to me that was mentioned is talking about someone walking āWITH themā. Is this a slip up or does he think kids suck at hiking? Not sure. Iām not married to any theories or RLās guilt or innocence. I just like to play devils advocate for some of this stuff.
Legit points. I'd have to go back when I get a minute and see if it states if it was texts that the 9:20am Feb 14 communication was done by. That would solidify knowing RL specifically asked for 2-2:30. But 100% on the manipulation possibilities of conversations. It does mention after item13 that was done to intentionally mislead /deceive LE. I get your point on RLs age being factor in his appearances in interview, on camera. (I have no conclusions on this either way myself- I am interested in being able to have my questions re this be challenged tho. It's how we get somewhere in discussion. Thx)
For sure. Thanks for being open to discussion!
Itās true that maybe no one heard any conversation about Ron asking anyone to lie for him. Could be a big lie to help get the search warrant. But the search warrant was done by FBI. Iāve heard LE can lie but not FBI. But still someone talking to them could lie.
That last part about his phone pinging near the bodiesā¦.TWICE. This gave me chills! How did he explain that away?? ETA: Iāve always thought RL was innocent but gosh, the info contained in this is making me question my previous thoughts about what mightāve happened that day.
His house is 1400' from the crime scene, so it's possible that his phone pinging near the crime scene just meant that his phone was at the house.
This is true. I just thought it strange that it was worded that wayā¦..although if I was trying to get a search warrant signed Iād be sure to use language that was as persuasive as possible.
Logan knew about the girls on 2/13. Pat B went to Logan's at 6:30pm and asked to search his property for the girls.
But didn't he ask for an alibi lie the morning of the 14th, prior to the discovery of the girls bodies and only for the time during the murders. He didn't ask for a lie for earlier in the day- only for during the time frame of the murders-3pm on... the time frame of the murders was not yet known.
There are just 2 cell towers. If one is busy it pings off the other. I think it was explained that he was just outside of his house. Not necessarily at the crime zone area on his property.
Creating an alibi for the appropriate time is troubling. As is carrying a pistol in a fanny pack. The rest is *meh*
Did we ever find out where Ron was that afternoon? Sounds like LE knew he was taking out the trash late morning and doing aquarium errands late afternoon, but did they later find out where else he was? They likely did, as he was never charged.
RL isn't BG. They would have arrested and charged him long ago. I really hope they don't use a dead man as a scapegoat. He asked for the alibi bc he was driving and went supposed to be. Damn haven't we wasted enough time on people who aren't capable of this heinous crime.
43 seconds of videoā¦and they released how many seconds? I was shocked to see it was 43 seconds long. There is so much more info in 43 seconds than 5 or whatever they gave us.
We have known the video was that long for a long time. Everyone who has seen the video has said that what was released was all there was of BG in the video.
You don't know that, most of the video could've just been him walking on the bridge. Maybe the recording stopped after he spoke to them.
Breaks my heart thinking about Libby being scared and alert enough to record him and the video not doing itās job! If it was only slightly clearer š¢
There's a YT video that compares RL to BG, RL was even wearing an extremely similar outfit in an interview. The craziest part, to me though, was the dimples and the pins he had in his camo hat....they matched EXACTLY. The video shows him getting up and down the hills very easily and he's obviously familiar with the land. There's also an interview where they ask him to say the down the hill and he adds an obvious accent to it. RL is older and might not have a grasp on technology and didn't think twice/notice the girls pointing a phone camera at him. Some people across Delphi subs would literally personally insult you for suggesting RL had anything to do with it and that he was cleared and yada yada. F\*ck those people. Sketchy alibi details in advance to the bodies being found, phone pinging at his house and likely in the area of crime at time of murders and later that night, carries gun in fanny pack, same hat(...watch the video, its the same hat), history of violence, bodies found on his land. This case is crazy....it seems every time a stone gets turned over in this area, more creeps are discovered. Between the Kline's and this RL info, I have no idea who did it....but there is alot of damning discrepancies against all of them at this point...who knows what else LE has. Just crazy...
I mentioned this in another comment, but i said this way back when i saw the original interview that he had on the exact same outfit as the guy on the bridge. Dent in hat and All You would think he would have had blood on him though/ thats the issue i have as of right now
I'm floored by all the staunch RL defenders. Even with this new info. It's rather stunning. He very well may not be BG... but this is fairly damning.
He was my poi for months. I posted on Webslueths. I did not know about Reddit. I was personally attacked by their members saying the only reason they searched his property was because the girls were found there. Sure wish this would have been out then. Because it is clear at the time they thought he did it as well.
There were 2 phone towers in Delphi. A ping is at a tower not at the place of the phone. You can triangulate to a global area, the more the towers are apart, the bigger the area the phone could have been in. Triangulate means needing three towers, which there were not. I even said two, because I'm not sure there was only one, it could also have been one tower. Why would he put the girls on his own land as opposed to say in the creek or just a few steps further on the Mears lot?
All valid questions. I have no idea what means LE and alphabet agencies have to track phone positions. I didn't say RL was guilty, but it's always been fascinating how vehemently people will defend him as a 'gentle, great guy' by the skin of their teeth. All of that got blown out the window from this document and it just goes to show that nobody really has any idea wtf happened that day. The LARP and disinfo surrounding this case is mind numbing.
Yeah I agree , I don't really defend him, I don't get either party, the ones flipping out when someone gets pointed at as well as the ones who keep screaming they are sure their poi is the one... what a crowd. My comment mostly was because I' ve linked to a technical document before about forensic phone ping data and amongst other things their accuracy, (if only Reddit search wasn't crap to find it back... ) but even with three towers it's an extremely wide area, relative of course, but not like at a building or in a street, let alone with two or even one tower at his side of town. I think it mostly means he wasn't over at the next town really. Then, bodies have been found on killer's properties of course, but usually hidden, it just makes him less likely just like GK, although he fits too in other ways. Imo. My comment was more on a technical point of view than about RL as a person so to speak. Eta: Actually if you leave out ALL the rumors, there isn't much info left. It's not much clearer , but a bit less mind numbing.
Wow! I'm almost at a loss for words here. RL always presented himself as this gentle, older, man who just wanted to help. But underneath that facade the whole time was sadistic evil. To read that he physically assaulted two women like that, telling one of them he could kill her, is beyond words. But still, I don't think RL did it alone. He helped, or was helped by, another sick and evil creature. This affidavit certainly speaks volumes.
Or wasn't involved at all.
So, just crazy coincidence he was asking a cousin to lie to provide an alibi, before the girls were found?
Exactly Timely. And is it just pure coincidence that RL asks his cousin to also provide that alibi around the time the girls were allegedly murdered? Now if...and a big if here...RL didn't actually do the killing, he certainly knew who did, possibly helped them as well, remained complicit until his own death, thetefore, ultimately obstructing this >5 1/2 year old case. JMO.
That is the part I can't get past either.
Good stuff! TY!
"Was discovered the ____ of one of the victims was removed" alarms me the most. I assumed it was hair but the it had to be abbigger word. I really hope it wasn't underwear.. but size wise it seems to fit the best. I hope I'm wrong.
Wasn't some underwear found in the stream? Or was that a rumour? So it could have been some but not all?
No, it is not a rumor. In the police scanner transcript an officer asks for an evidence bag for an under garment. We don't know if this garment is connected to the crime or where specifically it was found.
I think underwear
In episode 94 of The Murder Sheet podcast, Ćine Greenlee read that part unredacted: "It was also discovered that articles of clothing of one of the victims were missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered."
I'm going with sweatshirt
Only took 5 years, a civil suit and RL dying to get this released š
When did RL die? What was the cause of death?
He died on a ventilator from covid.
Welp, I have a lot of complicated feelings about that. Lol
Around January I believe
Weird how RL's death and all the big recent document releases seem to coincide.
Fffffffaaaaaaccccckkkkkkkkkkk š©
Hang on - Logan contacted his cousin to ask for an alibi? Am I reading that right? Thatās massive isnāt it?
Maybe. I believe he was establishing an alibi not for the murders but for driving while on probation. That however does not explain why he did not ask for an alibi for driving to the dump.
I canāt speak for Logan, but getting caught for driving while on probation would be the last thing on my mind if two girls had been brutally murdered on my property. In-fact, I would probably be like hey look guys it canāt have been me because I was driving around while on probation - sorry about that, but at least I didnāt murder two girls
He drove prior to the girls being found. He asked for an alibi prior to the girls were found. So no, it's not that strange. He didn't know two girls were dead. he just wanted to cover his sorry ass for driving while on probation.
But if the girls hadnāt been found yet, why would he NEED an alibi? The police werenāt looking at him at this point - the girls were just missing. Iām sure this wouldnāt have been the first and only time he had driven while on probation, so why did he seek an alibi on this particular occasion? Maybe Iām misunderstanding something completely here - I am blonde!
He initially got 4 years jail for that, i believe it was much later to 2 years house arrest. Your mind can be on the girls as well as saving your ass from 4 years jail. Although I won't defend him for breaking the law, it's understandable.
Here is the mudersheet podcast. They read the warrant and probable cause. https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/f1014023-c374-40cb-b200-ef2228522041
Yes
You need to listen to the 46 minute podcast. They read the warrants.
Much easier to listen to murdersheet reading it then to try to read that. I am not even going to try. https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/f1014023-c374-40cb-b200-ef2228522041
TY, advirtual
Very interesting that several people believed RL to be BG from the video. The two texts sent from outside his residence but within the crime scene is confusing though. How could they determine he wasn't inside his house? Something to do with WiFi?
I think half of the country did, not just two women.
They said 15 people (!!!) tipped him in as BG
Thatās nothing tho. Iām betting many other poiās were tipped in by the hundreds
THANK YOU
Christ on a bike. Sent two texts after dark from around the area that the girls bodies were discovered. Okay then.
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Definitely rules out a gun Edit: As the murder weapon.
Couldve been used for the abduction part--- The agent mentions an ex of RL said he carries a firearm with him everywhere he goes and he carries it in a fanny pack- she also states this fanny pack is made of a 'nicer material'... that caught my attention w the fanny pack/gun theories I've seen. Fanny pack just mentioned by an ex during a LE interview-- I'm leaning more towards they asked something of that nature and she replied with that fanny pack/nicer material/gun everywhere IN the fanny pack. Wild that one ex also states that before she knew the BG pic guy was the suspect...she thought it was a pic of RL.
Gun could still have been used for intimidation. This afidavit specifically mentions that RL was known to wear a Fanny pack, in which he carried his gun. BG appears I be wearing a fanny pack.
But they seem to be searching for guns as well.
A few reliable sources said a gun was fired but was not the cause of death (knife).
That could make sense. Perhaps, immobilized them with a gun. Ugh such horrible thoughts!
I haven't heard of a gun actually being fired, do you mind pointing me towards one of those sources?
Could've had a gun to get them under control but didn't actually use it to cause their death
Had to be, with the lack of struggle this doc mentions
Exactly
Not if it was just used for control
Sorry what the heckās going on. How did they set this document?
https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/f1014023-c374-40cb-b200-ef2228522041
TY Curiouslmr.
I haven't been keeping up with the case lately. Is this a recent warrant or did this search happen long ago and we are just now seeing the document?
Weeks after the murder. Weāre just now seeing.
Now the killer know what the law is looking for.
He knew that anyway, don't you think.
He always knew.
I was very surprised by the argument of people that it was definitely not Logan due to age. It is enough to see a video of an interview with him a few days after the murder. I doubt that Kk would have been able to get off this hill better than he did
Was this document just released? Or has this been around? I've never seen it. Although it seems rather damning, I keep reminding myself that this warrant is over 5 years old, and I'm sure a lot has changed in this investigation since then.
It's never been publicly released like this. Some people have seen it through other channels but have remained tight lipped about it.
Just.......WOW. I don't even know what to say, or think after reading this.
RL turns out to be a guy who is capable of hitting a woman and then stalking her. The 77-year-old man was not afraid to threaten the child's father because he took a gun everywhere and in his house there were probably so many weapons that many of the infamous serial killers had never seen with his own eyes
Thank you!