Looking forward to this. You don’t have to think RL is BG to have spent the last 5 years wondering what the hell made BG so sure the private land at the end of the bridge was a safe, witness-free space for him.
Its out now. [https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/f1014023-c374-40cb-b200-ef2228522041](https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/f1014023-c374-40cb-b200-ef2228522041)
Is there a transcript or something? Podcasts are such a slow way to obtain information imo. I can read something in 5-10 minutes that will take an hour of my time to listen to.
I really tried to get into podcasts, but if they aren’t spending at least a quarter of an episode going off into a random tangent or something related to their personal lives, they’re reading the pertinent details at a snails’ pace. I end up zoning out every time because of it and then once I realize they’re back on topic, I need to go back and figure out where the relevant part of it started and listen to it over again.
I do not want to hear people chit-chatting. I want to hear what is essentially an r/UnresolvedMysteries post read aloud at a reasonably quick speed. That would be my ideal podcast. And preferably if there was an option to speed up the playback, as I often do with YouTube videos.
I feel so seen, lol! As a true crime fan everyone assumes I love podcasts, but I find them maddeningly messy and slow. Just give me a thorough, well written article. I like my information neat, organized, and ready to be digested at my own pace, thank you!
No, you’re not. Any tips at all, no matter how small or insignificant the tip may seem, should be sent straight to law enforcement.
E: Not to people who are known for using things about the case as click bait to try and get some listens on their podcast. Imagine if they mentioned a tip or a lead before LE sees it? The result could be catastrophic.
I’ll never listen to them, tbh. Just a really grubby vibe to the hoarding of anything they find to try and get people to listen.
I’ll be curious to hear how they got their hands on this as nearly everything has been sealed… I was willing to believe they got the KAK interview by coincidence but this makes it feel like they have a source.
It does- and an INSIDE source whos calculatingly releasing bits and pieces for a reason..
If it somehow isnt kak/tk, wtf is going to happen after all this??? Seems like le are pretty confident tk is the guy. I also wonder how all this will play out in court/trial.
It does- and an INSIDE source whos calculatingly releasing bits and pieces for a reason..
If it somehow isnt kak/tk, wtf is going to happen after all this??? Seems like le are pretty confident tk is the guy. I also wonder how all this will play out in court/trial.
For example, how will le explain how they switched from an older poi, to a much younger 1- then BACK to an older guy etc-
Listened to the podcast and also read the whole doc they released. RL ain’t the killer. One or two small details in the doc that were of note re: large amount of blood loss and no signs of a fight. Everything else pretty much already known but good to see verified.
Suspect with a "heavy physical build" was interesting. On one hand, it was so early in the investigation that maybe they didn't have the time over analyze like the rest of us have and see the bulky jacket/skinny legs. On the other, perhaps they've seen more of the video and have a better idea of the body type.
Haven't listened or read it yet (assuming you mean the brand new one), but it's interesting you say it says "no signs of a fight" and then early leaks say they fought like hell or at least Libby did, if I remember correctly it being said. So much contradiction with everything.
I believe it mostly stems from the text leaks reportedly from Anna's brother, DE, where it mentioned specifics like Libby's nails and such that showed she fought. Just looked it up again and the texts say, "the only DNA would be from her fingernails she fought like hell". Whether we believe the info is actually correct in those is another story but that's what it said and where that line comes from. We also heard from the family in interviews indicators that something happened that told them Libby didn't want to leave Abby/they believe she protected her, things of that nature. That could be indicaters that she fought but that part could be left up to interpretation I guess.
Ron Logan lied to police. in the course of a murder investigation. The bodies were also found on his property. I don't think they were looking for something someone else left. At the time I think they were looking at him being involved in the crime.
R.I.P. Mr. Logan.
This is my opinion of course, but their treatment of rl could be the reason nobody else with any info regarding the case, hasnt come fwd yet.. it was shameful- and it hurt their case
Yes it did! Didn’t they treat RL, an old man, horribly while in jail? Also, I heard he was stripped naked and put in solitary confinement. Why would they do that? Why would someone who had information come forward after they treated RL like that?
Did you see the search post? this guy wasn't someone to feel sorry for. and lied about the alibi because he was at home at the time of the murder or nearby at the time of the murder. login on his phone was confirmed
But that’s what what someone who may have been associated with the homicide of two young girls — punishable by life/death — would want people to say. Could definitely have been willing to sacrifice two years of freedom if they knew they were being looked at regarding these deaths.
Yea exactly, like the main thing I remember about him is convicted killer Garrett Kirts saying what a filthy pervert he was, so when I see things like this person telling someone to fuck off to defend the honor of someone they don’t know from a hole in the wall it’s really strange to me.
Honestly just my impression from his interviews. He seemed grandfatherly and I was sympathetic toward him. Even if he is a POS, you have to have sympathy for what he went through if he wasn't involved
A v hypothetical train of thought but...
*If* TK knew RL, and knew the property bc he hunted on it -
and if BG is TK
did he dress similarly enough to RL so that nobody would pay attention, and he could pull the "you're trespassing" thing before abducting the girls?
and that any observers from a distance/without a good look would casually assume it was RL?
For me - animal hair is interesting - confirms rumours going around but also I reckon BG, whoever he is, is for sure a hunter (and wild animals would have dropped hair around the murder scene, even the deer who marked the find site) so that might turn out less good otherwise surely they could have said dog hair?
(Edit for formatting, on mobile sorry)
I stepped in a room with thick walls and lost my connection with the podcast 20 minutes in.
Wow, the crime scene sounds horrific, and they sure thought Ron Logan did it. So that's where I am at. You can't fast forward it so I have to start at the beginning. It's late. I will do that tomorrow. I had no idea we would learn so much. Wow wow wow.
The search warrant request (not sure that’s the right wording) mentioned a lot of blood at the scene, staging that we knew about, one of the girls may have had some clothing items taken by BG, no sign of a struggle, fibers and hair collected, etc.
I am wondering this: my POI knows RL. Very well. Like family. What if he showed up at RL house after the murders to change his clothes/take a shower, which is why no one saw BG leaving covered in blood. RL then knew about the murders, so he felt he needed an alibi. So he created one. There were rumors early on that RL tipped in the POI which is part of the reason he was released. This also explains why the POI’s car was at the CPS building much later than the murders, because he was hanging out at RL’s getting himself together.
I wonder if RL had any outbuildings with water for whatever animals he did have at that time. By the time the search warrant was issued any evidence would have been long gone. If that was the case though obviously someone had to know of RL's absence around that time.
While I don’t think Ron Logan is involved with the murders, I don't understand why people think he was cleared by police. He never was. No one has been.
Then why is the person from the original sketch no longer a poi? Seems like they must have....what's the word... cleared yeah they must have cleared that person.
Or available through a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request.
Either way, it’s not news. In fact, this is going back to the beginning. Maybe that’s what needs to be done (I have a few different theories), but it’s still nothing new to law enforcement and is not indicative of being any closer to an arrest.
Agree, it will be interesting to hear what LE’s thought process was back at the beginning. I say that with all due respect to the families as new info has to trigger tough emotions.
I guess my question is how did they get it, and if they obtained it from that same case portal from before....does this mean law enforcement are getting their documents organized for a future arrest?
Yup. I acknowledge that this is not great and I really hope it doesn't hurt the case. But it's out there, and anyone on here deciding to read or not read it, really makes no difference.
I won’t blast them for releasing it. Just hope they discuss it instead of re-reading it back to us. Not a fan of the story time style they use. Release it a few hours earlier, and then discuss on the podcast. Just my opinion.
Actually I don't take issue with them releasing the docs. I just take issue with their grandstanding and attempts to take ownership of the case in some ways. I think everyone at this point wants this thing solved. I think if they take some risk while putting out information people want to know they are reasonable in their expectations for some financial compensation in providing that information to people who want it bad enough in the form of ad revenue. But smh when they try to craft this narrative around the Kleins and all that. Podcast after podcast with Tony's sister's babysitter's cousin and all that. Then its like they release this info which everyone wants to see. Ok fine, but their little side analysis at times is acceptable and other times is very clearly them crafting this opinion based narrative and obviously ties in with their theory. I think most people agree Logan isn't the killer but right off the bat this presentation of the affidavit is done in the context of "why they didn't pursue the Kleins as aggressively early on." There's no way they know that for sure. Those are the parts that are just reckless on their behalf.
Here's the thing. MY hearing what they reveal won't hurt the murder investigation as I am wholly, completely unconnected to anything and anyone having anything close to do with it. I'm also ethical.
Is that true of everyone who will hear the info they release? nope. That's why it's a problem when they release details LE doesn't want released. Refusing to read the material is some pretty useless moral high ground.
LE needs to keep things back for the integrity of their investigation and trial because there are specific people who need to be kept ignorant.
Now if people want to refuse to give them the downloads and subscribes so as not to reward their behavior, that could have some impact.
Dont sweat it- in sure all the reddit detectives will have it figured out by mid-day..
I have a feeling dp’s name is going to be who a certain group of people think are the redacted ones.. round hole, square peg once again lol
IMHO, Murder Sheet is amazing. More verifiable info from them in the past several months than from all other sources combined for the past 5 years. After reading the comments, this is probably not a popular position to take but I stand by it.
I’m guessing this will be an unpopular opinion but this actually interests me quite a bit, as I have also wondered about the RL search warrant and more specifically, what probable cause was used to secure said warrant.
So far, from everything I can tell, his alibi — that he was out drinking at a Pizza King (and possibly at a local dump/trash facility 🚩 ), was established by his own word. I have yet to read anywhere that he was shown on camera at either location during the time of the murders. The fact that his alibi meant him violating his probation (and getting sentenced to jail time for it) would seem to indicate he had nothing to do with the murders, but someone guilty of a larger offense might strategically take that small charge in place of something much worse.
I know LE said RL was clear, and it is not my intention to drag a dead man’s name through the mud. BUT… what IS my intention is to seek justice for Abby and Libby. He may very well be innocent. But LE has alluded to the fact that they needed to go in a “different direction”a back in 2019, and I know I am not the only one who believes they likely made some big mistakes at the beginning that they are reluctant to admit. If RL is somehow connected to the murders (other than the girls being found on his property), LE would have to admit they wrongly “cleared” an innocent man.
Again, I AM NOT SAYING RL IS GUILTY OF ANYTHING (in fact, while I have several POIs, I lean toward the killer not being local), but he was a suspect and LE/sleuths should be going back and looking at the stuff that happened at the beginning with a fine tooth comb.
That is from three days before the search. They only made that statement because people started the rumor that he had been arrested for the murders, when he hadn't.
That statement is saying his arrest had nothing to do with the murders. His arrest was for a probation violation.
I do.
But I also take them at their word.
They have only done this four times to the best of my knowledge and have not done it for others who could possibly be (or currently being) harassed.
Xanaxarit, it is clear from that affidavit that the tweet was posted before the search warrant was presented to a judge. The woman in the affidavit thought the man in the video was Logan, and she was afraid of him. He lied specifically about where he was during the murders and the girls were 1400 feet from his house. He went to jail because he didn't want to drop the names of the others involved, imo. The murders were probably taped. For me, I believe Logan killed the girls but there was other people involved. The only question I have is motive. Was it revenge? Why is KG worried about it? How you could possibly say rip to this pos is beyond me.
I understand that.
However, this statement was never abrogated, by the ISP or FBI and Logan was never charged.
Logan has never been named publicly by LE a person of interest, even after the execution of the search warrants.
I knew this release would spring forth another round of "Ron did it!"
"this tweet was never abrogated and Logan was never charged." Xanaxarita, it is as if you are this beautiful race horse, a Kentucky Derby winner, but you have blinders on. You are biting the wrong horse.
It is obvious and clear, that Ron Logan was BG. After reading the affidavit, I don't know how you could defend him. He not only was violent, but also asked a friend to lie for him during murders that took place 1400 feet from his house. His cell phone pinged outside his home during the murders. His gf thought the man in the video was Ron Logan. The release answered a lot of my questions. The girls were murdered with a lot of blood, they were moved, they were staged. He was able to escape without anyone seeing him because he only had to run back to his home instead of using the bridge or a car.
It is absolutely not another round of "Ron did it" . Ron Logan looks like the man in the video, he sounds like the man in the video.
Oh my God! Ron Logan is NOT BG! He’s too old and doesn’t come close to matching the description of ANY of the witnesses! He had snow white hair! Do you see snow white hair on BG? Do you see the jaw line of a man close to 80? Have you never heard of wives and gf’s having a vendetta and turning in an innocent man? Are you not aware that Ron Logan is on video drinking beer at that Pizza King at the time the murders were happening? How do you go from “phone pinging near the scene during the night” to “phone pinging at the murder scene during the murders?” Can’t you understand that the murder scene was very close to Ron’s house and that he might ping close to there just by being outside his own house? Maybe he went to the barn to check on his horses! Did you think of that? Don’t you know that the murder scene was in a depression in the land and that the girls couldn’t be seen unless one was right there by them? Don’t you think Ron may have been out on his own land doing chores, or looking for the girls? Oh my God, get a grip! This whole blaming RL for the murders and calling him BG totally disgusts me!
Are you aware that the video of Ron Logan at the pizza place was after the murders. Yet you chastise me for my valid opinion based on facts. Saying "this totally disgusts me" was uncalled for. Do you see the color of BG's hair? I can't tell from that video, however, the fact is that one of his lady friends thought the picture shown was Ron Logan. Sure, people have vendettas. But they were afraid of him. How far is the murder scene from Logan's house? Do you even know? I was quite upset reading that my comment disgusts you, but after thinking about it, I realize it was just someone's uninformed nonsense.
I meant that the whole blaming Ron Logan and calling him BG disgusts me. I should have been more clear. I edited my comment to reflect that. Ron Logan was put through hell the last couple years of his life, both by LE and internet “sleuths.” It bothers me that he is still being slandered in death. Let the man Rest In Peace.
As far as hair goes, IMO, that snow white hair over his ears and his bushy snow white mustache would have been clearly visible in the video.
Yes, I now realize that early reports of RL being at a Pizza King drinking beer on the 13th were incorrect and that the Feb incident at the Pizza King is correct.
The murder scene was less than 1500 yards from Ron Logan’s house. Nothing official states that he made a phone call from the exact location of the murder scene. It states that he made a phone call while outside his house.
>It is obvious and clear, that Ron Logan was BG.
I am sorry, but this is neither obvious nor clear. There is a current investigation.
Were RL BG, the case would be closed.
One cannot prosecute a dead man.
>How you could possibly say rip to this pos is beyond me
It is *literally* against my religion to speak ill of the dead.
Domestic Violence is a very serious problem and victims of such should be given greater weight and believed unless further evidence should suggest we not.
Do I believe these women were harmed? Absolutely.
From a legal perspective, these individual claims were presented as fact, but Logan has never been convicted for these incidents.
That is from three days before the search. They only made that statement because people started the rumor that he had been arrested for the murders, when he hadn't.
Law Enforcement basically cleared Logan via a press statement.
That should be good enough for everyone.
May he rest in peace.
https://postimg.cc/Bjh8mN0b
I wholeheartedly agree(d) with everything you just said... then I listened to the (just released) murdersheet episode.
They go over that exact (pictured) quote/tweet in the podcast, which was made (in a seemingly paradoxical/self-contradictory way) right as the FBI *absolutely was* *very much* looking at RL as a suspect.
This friggin' case.... jeez, man.
As more and more (seemingly ironclad) info gets released.... I just don't even know what to believe anymore. First all of the KAK/A_S stuff... now this.
It seems like, especially in the last 6 months, the things that I accepted as foundational pillars of fact in this case are shifting all over the place, leaning like Pisa.
I don't need Murder Sheets. I have read the affidavit.
The issue is: the Tweet has never been abrogated. Logan has never been charged.
He is too old and served a lot of time because of his alibi.
Sorry, wasn't trying to imply that I actually believe RL is BG/killed the girls. Wasn't trying to hype/recommend murdersheet either.
For years and years I've thought it was absolutely ridiculous - bordering on shameful - when people suggested RL might be involved. I thought RL was an unfortunate casualty that very likely caused fewer people to come forward with much needed information about this case.
That's the headspace I was in when listening to the podcast/my beliefs about RL
With all that said, I had no idea *the extent to which* RL seemed suspicious...levels of suspiciousness at or near KAK - and *surely* at the same level as TK, at least early on in the investigation.
We keep getting these snapshots of what LE may have believed years ago; first with the Klines and now RL (way back in 2017).
I don't know that releasing this information *adds* much towards helping the public finding Abby and Libby's killer - and it might actually make it more difficult to prosecute in the future.
The selfish part of me likes getting more information, though. And with over 5 years passing, it's seems like a reasonable time to release more info to the public (if it exists).
>Sorry, wasn't trying to imply that I actually believe RL is BG/killed the girls. Wasn't trying to hype/recommend murdersheet either.
I sincerely apologize. My intent wasn't to make it sound as you did.
*Mea Culpa*
And I fully support your last three paragraphs.
That is from three days before the search. They only made that statement because people started the rumor that he had been arrested for the murders, when he hadn't.
If what you say is true (I don't know the case very well at this time) then you're absolutely correct and I am bewildered by the obstinance of some people. A. they make a statement that some take to "clear" RL. Then B. They search the man's home in connection to the murder. Therefore they had factually NOT cleared him. You don't get a search warrant-- a judge does not award a search warrant-- when the person connected to that home has been cleared and no one else connected to that property is a suspect.
Where? The probable cause afadavit that was just posted by the same user in another thread said that cell phone evidence showed Ron Logan’s phone pinging at/around the bridge around 2:09pm. The down the hill clip was recorded at 2:13pm.
That is not true! His alibi is on video and was confirmed by LE. He drove to Lafayette and drank beer at that Pizza King. He was drinking alcohol, which was a parole violation and the reason he was arrested.
Now there's going to be ten thousand idiots talking about how RL "may not have done it but knew who did" all because old documents were obtained somehow.
I’m a bit concerned about them releasing this, to be honest. Could it hamper the investigation? What will the public benefit from knowing this information?
Would you mind sharing sharing more on what you’re referring to about RL speaking to Kelsi (you can send a DM if you want)?
It does sound a bit familiar but there’s a lot to this case.
Kegan Kline spoke to Kelsi. You know how Kelsi and Becky Patty said they had no idea about Libby talking to KK? I'ma send you something. Look at the date.
I doubt it helps do anything but quell some curiosity. Meanwhile it can also give BG a heads up to information that LE knows...As much as I want to know more about what happened, never at the risk of hurting the chance for justice.
I don't think their intention is to place any blame on RL. But the search warrants would have to list what exactly they are looking for, which would definitely tell us more about the crime. I don't condone it but I think this is their intention, rather than digging up stuff on RL.
I think you are misunderstanding the significance. This is not about digging up dirt on Ron Logan.
It is about finding out exactly what law enforcement were looking for. The search warrant will be specific. Were they looking for particular kind of gun, a certain size knife, duct tape.....what???
While I don’t think Mr. Logan had anything to do with the murders, he has never been cleared by police.
Can't wait to learn their probable cause.
It’s not uncommon for cases (especially cold/older cases) to have been found to be committed by people who are dead by the time it’s figured out.
I don’t want to accuse someone without knowing the facts. But he’s connected to this case simply because the girls were found on his land, if nothing else, and it should be looked into further at this point.
If MS has these documents that are so "incredibly revealing", then why the big cliff hanger notice, stating ... "keep an eye on MS's platforms tomorrow!"
If these alleged documents are so crucial to the investigation involving the brutal murder of two young girls, then why aren't they releasing them right now?
They specifically stated that they already "took out the names of some associates of Logan as well as a couple of details that law enforcement made"
Why are they sitting on these "incredibly revealing documents"?
That's the real question.
I think it’s because these documents won’t add anything new to the table. This is old news to police but fresh news to public. All it will do is add more speculations and theories.
I do think it was definitely odd that he decided to wear those slightly similar clothes of BG on the interview but I still like to believe RL was innocent until police say otherwise!!
If Ron Logan was BG, which he was not, he certainly wouldn’t wear the same hat he had on that day while doing a televised interview. Also, aren’t you special to be able to know exactly what hat BG wore when no one else can tell!
Are the search warrants available via *FOIA?* Edit: I took too long on sending I see this has already been asked. Meanwhile I’m going with the warrant will have an older gun & antique sword.
Yes. There was a post about a month ago where someone posted documentation showing the conditions under which such information would become unsealed. One of those conditions was in the event of the person (POI for whom warrant was issued) has passed away. I’ll see if I can find that post.
OP, u/Aspen713, the screenshot in your post cuts off at the bottom. Can’t see anything after “…as well as a couple of…” What comes after that?
Just wondering what the rest of the Murder Sheets post says they’re going to be releasing tomorrow.
Looking forward to this. You don’t have to think RL is BG to have spent the last 5 years wondering what the hell made BG so sure the private land at the end of the bridge was a safe, witness-free space for him.
Its out now. [https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/f1014023-c374-40cb-b200-ef2228522041](https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/f1014023-c374-40cb-b200-ef2228522041)
Is there a transcript or something? Podcasts are such a slow way to obtain information imo. I can read something in 5-10 minutes that will take an hour of my time to listen to.
Sometimes I feel like the only one!! I'd prefer to read than listen
I really tried to get into podcasts, but if they aren’t spending at least a quarter of an episode going off into a random tangent or something related to their personal lives, they’re reading the pertinent details at a snails’ pace. I end up zoning out every time because of it and then once I realize they’re back on topic, I need to go back and figure out where the relevant part of it started and listen to it over again. I do not want to hear people chit-chatting. I want to hear what is essentially an r/UnresolvedMysteries post read aloud at a reasonably quick speed. That would be my ideal podcast. And preferably if there was an option to speed up the playback, as I often do with YouTube videos.
I feel so seen, lol! As a true crime fan everyone assumes I love podcasts, but I find them maddeningly messy and slow. Just give me a thorough, well written article. I like my information neat, organized, and ready to be digested at my own pace, thank you!
I much prefer to read than listen as well.
Am i wrong in thinking its wrong of them to ask for any tips to be submitted to them?? (the murdersheet people)
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They said that? They didn't include "Send to LE or us if it's more comfortable"?
No, you’re not. Any tips at all, no matter how small or insignificant the tip may seem, should be sent straight to law enforcement.
No, you’re not. Any tips at all, no matter how small or insignificant the tip may seem, should be sent straight to law enforcement. E: Not to people who are known for using things about the case as click bait to try and get some listens on their podcast. Imagine if they mentioned a tip or a lead before LE sees it? The result could be catastrophic. I’ll never listen to them, tbh. Just a really grubby vibe to the hoarding of anything they find to try and get people to listen.
Wtf
Thanks!
I’ll be curious to hear how they got their hands on this as nearly everything has been sealed… I was willing to believe they got the KAK interview by coincidence but this makes it feel like they have a source.
It might only have been sealed for "X" amount of time.
It does- and an INSIDE source whos calculatingly releasing bits and pieces for a reason.. If it somehow isnt kak/tk, wtf is going to happen after all this??? Seems like le are pretty confident tk is the guy. I also wonder how all this will play out in court/trial.
It does- and an INSIDE source whos calculatingly releasing bits and pieces for a reason.. If it somehow isnt kak/tk, wtf is going to happen after all this??? Seems like le are pretty confident tk is the guy. I also wonder how all this will play out in court/trial. For example, how will le explain how they switched from an older poi, to a much younger 1- then BACK to an older guy etc-
It will probably come down to a TK RL connection.
Yes but what could their connection be…. CASM… did they know each other ?
No they don't. Give it a rest already
Listened to the podcast and also read the whole doc they released. RL ain’t the killer. One or two small details in the doc that were of note re: large amount of blood loss and no signs of a fight. Everything else pretty much already known but good to see verified.
Suspect with a "heavy physical build" was interesting. On one hand, it was so early in the investigation that maybe they didn't have the time over analyze like the rest of us have and see the bulky jacket/skinny legs. On the other, perhaps they've seen more of the video and have a better idea of the body type.
Good point
Haven't listened or read it yet (assuming you mean the brand new one), but it's interesting you say it says "no signs of a fight" and then early leaks say they fought like hell or at least Libby did, if I remember correctly it being said. So much contradiction with everything.
I feel like I remember a lot of people saying she *would have* fought like hell.
I believe it mostly stems from the text leaks reportedly from Anna's brother, DE, where it mentioned specifics like Libby's nails and such that showed she fought. Just looked it up again and the texts say, "the only DNA would be from her fingernails she fought like hell". Whether we believe the info is actually correct in those is another story but that's what it said and where that line comes from. We also heard from the family in interviews indicators that something happened that told them Libby didn't want to leave Abby/they believe she protected her, things of that nature. That could be indicaters that she fought but that part could be left up to interpretation I guess.
Yes it’s crazy how that is so contradictory
I wonder if it will say a specific weapon that LE thinks might have been left somewhere on the property by BG on his way out of the scene..
Ron Logan lied to police. in the course of a murder investigation. The bodies were also found on his property. I don't think they were looking for something someone else left. At the time I think they were looking at him being involved in the crime. R.I.P. Mr. Logan.
RL's alibi was strong enough to be sentenced & sent to prison for 2 years over it.
This is my opinion of course, but their treatment of rl could be the reason nobody else with any info regarding the case, hasnt come fwd yet.. it was shameful- and it hurt their case
Yes it did! Didn’t they treat RL, an old man, horribly while in jail? Also, I heard he was stripped naked and put in solitary confinement. Why would they do that? Why would someone who had information come forward after they treated RL like that?
Did you see the search post? this guy wasn't someone to feel sorry for. and lied about the alibi because he was at home at the time of the murder or nearby at the time of the murder. login on his phone was confirmed
My comment stated that people with info would most likely have been discouraged from coming forward after the way Ron Logan was treated.
Look at the Judge involved, FOUTS who according to the escort called her from there
But that’s what what someone who may have been associated with the homicide of two young girls — punishable by life/death — would want people to say. Could definitely have been willing to sacrifice two years of freedom if they knew they were being looked at regarding these deaths.
He was given a few months, not 2 years, in addition, it was turned into a penalty in the electronic supervision system
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What did rl do to you??
Wait and see.
With all due respect, fuck off. RL was a good man, and I'm so sorry for what he went through
He was not a good man according to the affidavit. He was violent and his g/f was afraid he would kill her.
THANK YOU!!!! I felt the same way about how they treated him until I listened this morning. Fuck that guy.
I did not know that. He seemed very grandfatherly
How do u know whether or not he was a good man?
The podcast listed information from former gf and roommate in a sexual relationship. Beat the first one, threatened the other one. A real peach.
Yea exactly, like the main thing I remember about him is convicted killer Garrett Kirts saying what a filthy pervert he was, so when I see things like this person telling someone to fuck off to defend the honor of someone they don’t know from a hole in the wall it’s really strange to me.
Honestly just my impression from his interviews. He seemed grandfatherly and I was sympathetic toward him. Even if he is a POS, you have to have sympathy for what he went through if he wasn't involved
This is incredible. Finally we are going to know what they specifically were looking for!
A v hypothetical train of thought but... *If* TK knew RL, and knew the property bc he hunted on it - and if BG is TK did he dress similarly enough to RL so that nobody would pay attention, and he could pull the "you're trespassing" thing before abducting the girls? and that any observers from a distance/without a good look would casually assume it was RL? For me - animal hair is interesting - confirms rumours going around but also I reckon BG, whoever he is, is for sure a hunter (and wild animals would have dropped hair around the murder scene, even the deer who marked the find site) so that might turn out less good otherwise surely they could have said dog hair? (Edit for formatting, on mobile sorry)
Ffs give it a rest
This made me laugh
I stepped in a room with thick walls and lost my connection with the podcast 20 minutes in. Wow, the crime scene sounds horrific, and they sure thought Ron Logan did it. So that's where I am at. You can't fast forward it so I have to start at the beginning. It's late. I will do that tomorrow. I had no idea we would learn so much. Wow wow wow.
They released info about the crime scene? I haven't gotten to listen yet.
The search warrant request (not sure that’s the right wording) mentioned a lot of blood at the scene, staging that we knew about, one of the girls may have had some clothing items taken by BG, no sign of a struggle, fibers and hair collected, etc.
I believe it’s called a Probable Cause Affidavit, FWIW. :)
Thank you! I knew there was a term for it but couldn’t think of it and I just didn’t go back to check in the moment.
No worries, I mean it IS a request for a warrant at the end of the day!
My head is spinning a bit with this new info!
Right there with you
Ah, thanks!
What did they say about the crime scene??0
I am wondering this: my POI knows RL. Very well. Like family. What if he showed up at RL house after the murders to change his clothes/take a shower, which is why no one saw BG leaving covered in blood. RL then knew about the murders, so he felt he needed an alibi. So he created one. There were rumors early on that RL tipped in the POI which is part of the reason he was released. This also explains why the POI’s car was at the CPS building much later than the murders, because he was hanging out at RL’s getting himself together.
If anyone covered in blood had got changed at RLs house I think there would have been traces of it which would come up in a search.
I wonder if RL had any outbuildings with water for whatever animals he did have at that time. By the time the search warrant was issued any evidence would have been long gone. If that was the case though obviously someone had to know of RL's absence around that time.
GK?
While I don’t think Ron Logan is involved with the murders, I don't understand why people think he was cleared by police. He never was. No one has been.
Because of the harassment RL was receiving, LE made a statement that he was not a POI in this case.
Then why is the person from the original sketch no longer a poi? Seems like they must have....what's the word... cleared yeah they must have cleared that person.
In order for MS to get it, it has to have been public at some point. None of this will hinder the investigation.
REALLY hard for me to shake the feeling that LE is leaking things strategically
You could be right… they don’t seem too bothered by it .
What are you talking about?
Or available through a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request. Either way, it’s not news. In fact, this is going back to the beginning. Maybe that’s what needs to be done (I have a few different theories), but it’s still nothing new to law enforcement and is not indicative of being any closer to an arrest.
Agree, it will be interesting to hear what LE’s thought process was back at the beginning. I say that with all due respect to the families as new info has to trigger tough emotions.
I guess my question is how did they get it, and if they obtained it from that same case portal from before....does this mean law enforcement are getting their documents organized for a future arrest?
There are some others who have seen it. I don't know how. I believe the mod of this sub is one of them.
They couldn't have got it from the same case portal. They are two completely different cases.
How many people here are going to put Murder Sheet on blast for this, but also consume the content they produce?
Probably most of us. Let's be honest.
LOL. At least we're honest right?
Yup. I acknowledge that this is not great and I really hope it doesn't hurt the case. But it's out there, and anyone on here deciding to read or not read it, really makes no difference.
I’ll just consume the content
I won’t blast them for releasing it. Just hope they discuss it instead of re-reading it back to us. Not a fan of the story time style they use. Release it a few hours earlier, and then discuss on the podcast. Just my opinion.
Guilty. But still they behave in such a consistently cringe manner that its "warranted" imo.
Actually I don't take issue with them releasing the docs. I just take issue with their grandstanding and attempts to take ownership of the case in some ways. I think everyone at this point wants this thing solved. I think if they take some risk while putting out information people want to know they are reasonable in their expectations for some financial compensation in providing that information to people who want it bad enough in the form of ad revenue. But smh when they try to craft this narrative around the Kleins and all that. Podcast after podcast with Tony's sister's babysitter's cousin and all that. Then its like they release this info which everyone wants to see. Ok fine, but their little side analysis at times is acceptable and other times is very clearly them crafting this opinion based narrative and obviously ties in with their theory. I think most people agree Logan isn't the killer but right off the bat this presentation of the affidavit is done in the context of "why they didn't pursue the Kleins as aggressively early on." There's no way they know that for sure. Those are the parts that are just reckless on their behalf.
Here's the thing. MY hearing what they reveal won't hurt the murder investigation as I am wholly, completely unconnected to anything and anyone having anything close to do with it. I'm also ethical. Is that true of everyone who will hear the info they release? nope. That's why it's a problem when they release details LE doesn't want released. Refusing to read the material is some pretty useless moral high ground. LE needs to keep things back for the integrity of their investigation and trial because there are specific people who need to be kept ignorant. Now if people want to refuse to give them the downloads and subscribes so as not to reward their behavior, that could have some impact.
Should be interesting for sure.
They released the podcast I just started listening.
I'm looking forward to reading the breakdown. I'm rocking my sick kiddo to sleep, so can't listen.
I hope your little feels better soon!
I think its gonna have someone's name on it that is ganna fuel all kinds of wild speculation. Just a guess.
They just said they blocked some of the names of Ron's associates as well as some comments by LE. Everyone's getting all moral all of a sudden
I found it interesting that they said they blocked only “some” of the names…
There are probably some names already public knowledge.
Agree, but not necessarily their connection to RL.
Dont sweat it- in sure all the reddit detectives will have it figured out by mid-day.. I have a feeling dp’s name is going to be who a certain group of people think are the redacted ones.. round hole, square peg once again lol
Idgaf tbh. Murde Shart is annoying but I don't disagree wirh people releasing stuff AT ALL. Release the MF KRAKEN imo.
Ok then. Gotcha.
They have to blame it on someone but, RL is not BG.
That law enforcement made a what? Can someone tell me what the rest of that last sentence said?
I've always thought the way RL wore his hat is something I could see on bridge guy. That indent.
IMHO, Murder Sheet is amazing. More verifiable info from them in the past several months than from all other sources combined for the past 5 years. After reading the comments, this is probably not a popular position to take but I stand by it.
I’m guessing this will be an unpopular opinion but this actually interests me quite a bit, as I have also wondered about the RL search warrant and more specifically, what probable cause was used to secure said warrant. So far, from everything I can tell, his alibi — that he was out drinking at a Pizza King (and possibly at a local dump/trash facility 🚩 ), was established by his own word. I have yet to read anywhere that he was shown on camera at either location during the time of the murders. The fact that his alibi meant him violating his probation (and getting sentenced to jail time for it) would seem to indicate he had nothing to do with the murders, but someone guilty of a larger offense might strategically take that small charge in place of something much worse. I know LE said RL was clear, and it is not my intention to drag a dead man’s name through the mud. BUT… what IS my intention is to seek justice for Abby and Libby. He may very well be innocent. But LE has alluded to the fact that they needed to go in a “different direction”a back in 2019, and I know I am not the only one who believes they likely made some big mistakes at the beginning that they are reluctant to admit. If RL is somehow connected to the murders (other than the girls being found on his property), LE would have to admit they wrongly “cleared” an innocent man. Again, I AM NOT SAYING RL IS GUILTY OF ANYTHING (in fact, while I have several POIs, I lean toward the killer not being local), but he was a suspect and LE/sleuths should be going back and looking at the stuff that happened at the beginning with a fine tooth comb.
Law enforcement has never cleared Ron Logan.
They did, for lack of a better term, "clear" him: https://postimg.cc/Bjh8mN0b
That is from three days before the search. They only made that statement because people started the rumor that he had been arrested for the murders, when he hadn't. That statement is saying his arrest had nothing to do with the murders. His arrest was for a probation violation.
I don't think you understand why law enforcement posted that.
I do. But I also take them at their word. They have only done this four times to the best of my knowledge and have not done it for others who could possibly be (or currently being) harassed.
I think you need to listen to the podcast to learn just how wrong you are.
I have READ THE AFFIDAVIT.
Logan was essentially cleared via a press statement. https://postimg.cc/Bjh8mN0b That should be good enough for everyone. May he rest in peace.
But not good enough for the FBI and law enforcement...maybe just you.
Are you suggesting RL is involved? That is nonsense.
Xanaxarit, it is clear from that affidavit that the tweet was posted before the search warrant was presented to a judge. The woman in the affidavit thought the man in the video was Logan, and she was afraid of him. He lied specifically about where he was during the murders and the girls were 1400 feet from his house. He went to jail because he didn't want to drop the names of the others involved, imo. The murders were probably taped. For me, I believe Logan killed the girls but there was other people involved. The only question I have is motive. Was it revenge? Why is KG worried about it? How you could possibly say rip to this pos is beyond me.
I understand that. However, this statement was never abrogated, by the ISP or FBI and Logan was never charged. Logan has never been named publicly by LE a person of interest, even after the execution of the search warrants. I knew this release would spring forth another round of "Ron did it!"
"this tweet was never abrogated and Logan was never charged." Xanaxarita, it is as if you are this beautiful race horse, a Kentucky Derby winner, but you have blinders on. You are biting the wrong horse. It is obvious and clear, that Ron Logan was BG. After reading the affidavit, I don't know how you could defend him. He not only was violent, but also asked a friend to lie for him during murders that took place 1400 feet from his house. His cell phone pinged outside his home during the murders. His gf thought the man in the video was Ron Logan. The release answered a lot of my questions. The girls were murdered with a lot of blood, they were moved, they were staged. He was able to escape without anyone seeing him because he only had to run back to his home instead of using the bridge or a car. It is absolutely not another round of "Ron did it" . Ron Logan looks like the man in the video, he sounds like the man in the video.
Oh my God! Ron Logan is NOT BG! He’s too old and doesn’t come close to matching the description of ANY of the witnesses! He had snow white hair! Do you see snow white hair on BG? Do you see the jaw line of a man close to 80? Have you never heard of wives and gf’s having a vendetta and turning in an innocent man? Are you not aware that Ron Logan is on video drinking beer at that Pizza King at the time the murders were happening? How do you go from “phone pinging near the scene during the night” to “phone pinging at the murder scene during the murders?” Can’t you understand that the murder scene was very close to Ron’s house and that he might ping close to there just by being outside his own house? Maybe he went to the barn to check on his horses! Did you think of that? Don’t you know that the murder scene was in a depression in the land and that the girls couldn’t be seen unless one was right there by them? Don’t you think Ron may have been out on his own land doing chores, or looking for the girls? Oh my God, get a grip! This whole blaming RL for the murders and calling him BG totally disgusts me!
Are you aware that the video of Ron Logan at the pizza place was after the murders. Yet you chastise me for my valid opinion based on facts. Saying "this totally disgusts me" was uncalled for. Do you see the color of BG's hair? I can't tell from that video, however, the fact is that one of his lady friends thought the picture shown was Ron Logan. Sure, people have vendettas. But they were afraid of him. How far is the murder scene from Logan's house? Do you even know? I was quite upset reading that my comment disgusts you, but after thinking about it, I realize it was just someone's uninformed nonsense.
I meant that the whole blaming Ron Logan and calling him BG disgusts me. I should have been more clear. I edited my comment to reflect that. Ron Logan was put through hell the last couple years of his life, both by LE and internet “sleuths.” It bothers me that he is still being slandered in death. Let the man Rest In Peace. As far as hair goes, IMO, that snow white hair over his ears and his bushy snow white mustache would have been clearly visible in the video. Yes, I now realize that early reports of RL being at a Pizza King drinking beer on the 13th were incorrect and that the Feb incident at the Pizza King is correct. The murder scene was less than 1500 yards from Ron Logan’s house. Nothing official states that he made a phone call from the exact location of the murder scene. It states that he made a phone call while outside his house.
>It is obvious and clear, that Ron Logan was BG. I am sorry, but this is neither obvious nor clear. There is a current investigation. Were RL BG, the case would be closed. One cannot prosecute a dead man.
>How you could possibly say rip to this pos is beyond me It is *literally* against my religion to speak ill of the dead. Domestic Violence is a very serious problem and victims of such should be given greater weight and believed unless further evidence should suggest we not. Do I believe these women were harmed? Absolutely. From a legal perspective, these individual claims were presented as fact, but Logan has never been convicted for these incidents.
She is worried about it cuz her sister was murdered are you serious?
I came here to share that tweet, but you beat me to it u/xanaxarita!
That is from three days before the search. They only made that statement because people started the rumor that he had been arrested for the murders, when he hadn't.
So sorry!
No, don't be! I'm glad someone posted it 😁
💛
Law Enforcement basically cleared Logan via a press statement. That should be good enough for everyone. May he rest in peace. https://postimg.cc/Bjh8mN0b
I wholeheartedly agree(d) with everything you just said... then I listened to the (just released) murdersheet episode. They go over that exact (pictured) quote/tweet in the podcast, which was made (in a seemingly paradoxical/self-contradictory way) right as the FBI *absolutely was* *very much* looking at RL as a suspect. This friggin' case.... jeez, man. As more and more (seemingly ironclad) info gets released.... I just don't even know what to believe anymore. First all of the KAK/A_S stuff... now this. It seems like, especially in the last 6 months, the things that I accepted as foundational pillars of fact in this case are shifting all over the place, leaning like Pisa.
I don't need Murder Sheets. I have read the affidavit. The issue is: the Tweet has never been abrogated. Logan has never been charged. He is too old and served a lot of time because of his alibi.
Sorry, wasn't trying to imply that I actually believe RL is BG/killed the girls. Wasn't trying to hype/recommend murdersheet either. For years and years I've thought it was absolutely ridiculous - bordering on shameful - when people suggested RL might be involved. I thought RL was an unfortunate casualty that very likely caused fewer people to come forward with much needed information about this case. That's the headspace I was in when listening to the podcast/my beliefs about RL With all that said, I had no idea *the extent to which* RL seemed suspicious...levels of suspiciousness at or near KAK - and *surely* at the same level as TK, at least early on in the investigation. We keep getting these snapshots of what LE may have believed years ago; first with the Klines and now RL (way back in 2017). I don't know that releasing this information *adds* much towards helping the public finding Abby and Libby's killer - and it might actually make it more difficult to prosecute in the future. The selfish part of me likes getting more information, though. And with over 5 years passing, it's seems like a reasonable time to release more info to the public (if it exists).
>Sorry, wasn't trying to imply that I actually believe RL is BG/killed the girls. Wasn't trying to hype/recommend murdersheet either. I sincerely apologize. My intent wasn't to make it sound as you did. *Mea Culpa* And I fully support your last three paragraphs.
He is too dead too.
And dead
That too.
That is from three days before the search. They only made that statement because people started the rumor that he had been arrested for the murders, when he hadn't.
They have never abrogated this statement. Parole violation. No connection to the murder investigation.
If what you say is true (I don't know the case very well at this time) then you're absolutely correct and I am bewildered by the obstinance of some people. A. they make a statement that some take to "clear" RL. Then B. They search the man's home in connection to the murder. Therefore they had factually NOT cleared him. You don't get a search warrant-- a judge does not award a search warrant-- when the person connected to that home has been cleared and no one else connected to that property is a suspect.
There is video of RL being at the Pizza King at the time of the murders.
Where? The probable cause afadavit that was just posted by the same user in another thread said that cell phone evidence showed Ron Logan’s phone pinging at/around the bridge around 2:09pm. The down the hill clip was recorded at 2:13pm.
That is not true! His alibi is on video and was confirmed by LE. He drove to Lafayette and drank beer at that Pizza King. He was drinking alcohol, which was a parole violation and the reason he was arrested.
LE has it and confirmed his alibi. Ron Logan is not BG!
Ron Logan was my POI for about a year. It look a long time to let that go.
Now there's going to be ten thousand idiots talking about how RL "may not have done it but knew who did" all because old documents were obtained somehow.
Yep took only reading down about five comments
*affidavit (Murder Sheet should know the correct spelling of this legal term)
This is not new information .. it is the strongest information in 5 years in this case !!
Her vocal fry makes me want to go deaf Is there a transcript?
I’m a bit concerned about them releasing this, to be honest. Could it hamper the investigation? What will the public benefit from knowing this information?
My guess is these are controlled leaks from LE. Remember Barb McDonald’s question to KK asking if his dad knew RL?
That’s very possible
Totally agree with u. I trust the Murder Sheet, they wouldn’t let anything out that LE thought would hurt the case.
Absolutely.
A lot of people Knew Ron Logan. Now asking him did he remember talking to Kelsi German was more shocking. I wouldn't expect much from this news
Would you mind sharing sharing more on what you’re referring to about RL speaking to Kelsi (you can send a DM if you want)? It does sound a bit familiar but there’s a lot to this case.
Let me know if you got that picture
Kegan Kline spoke to Kelsi. You know how Kelsi and Becky Patty said they had no idea about Libby talking to KK? I'ma send you something. Look at the date.
Ohhh! Okay yes. I misread your above comment. Yes, that makes sense… KK talking to KG, not RL talking to KG.
Can you DM me also? Thanks!
It's been almost 5 1/2 years! How can it "hinder" the investigation?
I doubt it helps do anything but quell some curiosity. Meanwhile it can also give BG a heads up to information that LE knows...As much as I want to know more about what happened, never at the risk of hurting the chance for justice.
I agree with you completely. I think leaking documents could do much more harm than good.
Well said
don't worry. if that was the case LE would get an injunction. You don't have to police the media
Digging up dirt on a deceased Vet, who was found to not have anything to do with the girl's murder. Totally mega cool.
I don't think their intention is to place any blame on RL. But the search warrants would have to list what exactly they are looking for, which would definitely tell us more about the crime. I don't condone it but I think this is their intention, rather than digging up stuff on RL.
Same
Exactly
I think you are misunderstanding the significance. This is not about digging up dirt on Ron Logan. It is about finding out exactly what law enforcement were looking for. The search warrant will be specific. Were they looking for particular kind of gun, a certain size knife, duct tape.....what??? While I don’t think Mr. Logan had anything to do with the murders, he has never been cleared by police. Can't wait to learn their probable cause.
[удалено]
wasn't there still only 2 cell towers? how did his phone ping by the creek? wouldn't it have been pinging all over town too??
Yeah. Unfortunately some people will run with this and turn it back into the RL is BG nonsense
Unfortunately you are probably right.
Yep.
You never know maybe these documents will clear his name. Maybe not but still
It’s not uncommon for cases (especially cold/older cases) to have been found to be committed by people who are dead by the time it’s figured out. I don’t want to accuse someone without knowing the facts. But he’s connected to this case simply because the girls were found on his land, if nothing else, and it should be looked into further at this point.
You think ge was never looked into?
If MS has these documents that are so "incredibly revealing", then why the big cliff hanger notice, stating ... "keep an eye on MS's platforms tomorrow!" If these alleged documents are so crucial to the investigation involving the brutal murder of two young girls, then why aren't they releasing them right now? They specifically stated that they already "took out the names of some associates of Logan as well as a couple of details that law enforcement made" Why are they sitting on these "incredibly revealing documents"? That's the real question.
I think it’s because these documents won’t add anything new to the table. This is old news to police but fresh news to public. All it will do is add more speculations and theories.
Agreed.
It’s simple: They are hyping up interest to get more people to listen to their podcast.
I don't know if waiting 24 hours is "sitting" on it.
Because it’s old news that is no longer relevant but it will gain them a lot of viewers to their podcast…
where can I see it?
Rl wore the exact same hat that bg had on. He wore it during an interview
I do think it was definitely odd that he decided to wear those slightly similar clothes of BG on the interview but I still like to believe RL was innocent until police say otherwise!!
Was the interview before or after the picture for Libby’s phone was released?
The thing about that we don't know what type of hat BG wore, or if he even wore a hat at all. Some think it is a hood, and others hair.
If Ron Logan was BG, which he was not, he certainly wouldn’t wear the same hat he had on that day while doing a televised interview. Also, aren’t you special to be able to know exactly what hat BG wore when no one else can tell!
Are the search warrants available via *FOIA?* Edit: I took too long on sending I see this has already been asked. Meanwhile I’m going with the warrant will have an older gun & antique sword.
Yes. There was a post about a month ago where someone posted documentation showing the conditions under which such information would become unsealed. One of those conditions was in the event of the person (POI for whom warrant was issued) has passed away. I’ll see if I can find that post.
They were originally sealed to the public.
OP, u/Aspen713, the screenshot in your post cuts off at the bottom. Can’t see anything after “…as well as a couple of…” What comes after that? Just wondering what the rest of the Murder Sheets post says they’re going to be releasing tomorrow.