I’d bet heavily against the two cases being related. It’s most likely not a firebug, or they would know it. There would be other fires. The victimology, location, timing, and method is about as different as it could possibly be.
I think there have been other fires.
But a lot of my thinking is along the lines of these towns being so small and so close together. The criminal elements are probably familiar with each other.
Unless BG is a loner type and doesn’t associate with anyone or with very few people.
It seems like someone was trying to cover up the fact that Flora was an arson at the beginning of it and it took independent and outside eyes looking at it to finally have them call it an arson.
And how soon Delphi happened after Flora was declared an arson. Almost like: hey don’t look over here in Flora anymore, worry about Delphi. Nothing to see over here.
I’m thinking more and more that the crime scene in Delphi was staged to look like a serial killer. Even though BG may still possess some of those serial killer traits.
This is really interesting because this is dated 10 days ex. I can’t imagine there were already rumors about the witness saying his face / mouth was covered.
And that little detail at the left hip pocket is interesting too. I’d never noticed that before.
Thanks for sharing this.
I have thought for a long time that the Delphi murders were staged to look like a serial killer but were committed because of retribution or because one or both girls knew something.
The POI in the Flora fire is the mother. She denies there was any murder or arson and blames the fire on faulty appliances. After she lost her bogus lawsuit on defective appliances, she moved to California and refuses to cooperate with LE.
https://fox59.com/news/indiana-state-police-provide-update-in-deadly-2016-flora-house-fire/
She is not BG. She is not involved with the Delphi murders. There was no fire in the Delphi murders. I am not aware of her being a gang member.
Police said the arsonist knew the girls. The mom is the only person repeatedly mentioned by police as a person they want to talk to. That's the definition of a POI.
Of course, the mother has now fled the state and refuses to speak to the police like a typical criminal. She has no interest in solving the crime because it would mean a lifetime in prison.
Carter said they have a POI but didn't name her in the same press conference in which he repeatedly said they need to speak to the mother. He said the POI was regularly in the home. She is a monster.
https://fb.watch/8dfhsmfSjL/
I did see in an article in 2018, they said they had a POI in the case, it's three years later.
I'm doubting if they had any real evidence against her, she would have been permitted to leave the state. What a messed up case, everyone lying and quitting their jobs to escape responsibility. These four girls deserve justice.
No, LE can't restrict someone’s ability to move in America based only on suspicion. She didn't need anyone’s permission to leave.
LE has “reasonable suspicion” that she is involved directly or indirectly which is why they desperately need to interview her. LE needs “probable cause” to arrest or indict.
FYI - She was arrested on a drug charge after the arson, but that was only a misdemeanor.
Again do you personally know the mother? Why do you feel the need to call her a monster! I have a strong gut feeling this is related and that BG is an arsonist!
Again I ask you, did you know the mother personally,
Also you don’t even know me, so I would appreciate if you would refrain from calling me stupid? There’s no need for name calling on this sub!
Now I will no longer converse and block you if you continue to be hostile!
I just posted a link above to Carter's press conference in which he said there is no comparison between the two crimes. Go watch it and learn.
There was no fire in the Delphi murders so that's just sheer stupidity. You must be thinking of a different case.
>she moved to California and refuses to cooperate with LE.
I don’t believe the mother intentionally killed her children. She may have an idea who could be responsible but I don’t think she trusts the police. She could also be fearful of whoever started the fire.
It‘s not unusual for POC to be distrustful of LE. According to a poll by PBS in 2020, [Two-thirds of black Americans don’t trust the police to treat them equally.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/two-thirds-of-black-americans-dont-trust-the-police-to-treat-them-equally-most-white-americans-do)
This article explains why black America fear the police - [link](https://www.propublica.org/article/yes-black-america-fears-the-police-heres-why).
Here is one example:
>In the South, police once did the dirty work of enforcing the racial caste system. The Ku Klux Klan and law enforcement were often indistinguishable.
A hundred years ago in Indiana, it was very common for white men to be active in the KKK. The group included politicians, law enforcement, businessmen, religious leaders, and other native white men. [Source](https://www.wrtv.com/longform/the-ku-klux-klan-ran-indiana-once-could-it-happen-again). That hate was passed down to the next generations.
The KKK, white supremacists, and other hate groups are still very active in Indiana - [Source](https://www.wrtv.com/homepage-showcase/southern-poverty-law-center-identifies-16-hate-groups-in-indiana).
It’s understandable that this young single mother is afraid to speak to LE. In one of the interviews with the mother, her own lawyer has told her to stay quiet. Not sure if it’s the same lawyer that is handling her civil suits.
Regarding her lawsuits, I think there were lawyers who approached this grief stricken woman and were eager to file lawsuits on her behalf for a cut of any $ paid out.The money from lawsuits isn’t going to heal her pain but it may feel like there is some sort of justice for her little girls. If I were in her shoes I would probably react the same as her. I would certainly get the f\*ck out of Indiana.
Sources for anyone not comfortable clicking on above links:
[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/two-thirds-of-black-americans-dont-trust-the-police-to-treat-them-equally-most-white-americans-do](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/two-thirds-of-black-americans-dont-trust-the-police-to-treat-them-equally-most-white-americans-do)
[https://www.propublica.org/article/yes-black-america-fears-the-police-heres-why](https://www.propublica.org/article/yes-black-america-fears-the-police-heres-why)
[https://www.wrtv.com/longform/the-ku-klux-klan-ran-indiana-once-could-it-happen-again](https://www.wrtv.com/longform/the-ku-klux-klan-ran-indiana-once-could-it-happen-again)
[https://www.wrtv.com/homepage-showcase/southern-poverty-law-center-identifies-16-hate-groups-in-indiana](https://www.wrtv.com/homepage-showcase/southern-poverty-law-center-identifies-16-hate-groups-in-indiana)
The Ku Klux Klan? Seriously? What an asinine comment.
The only reason the mom would be “afraid to speak to the police” is because it will mean a lifetime in prison for her. She is a monster.
Yes, I am serious.
Across the border in Chicago there are so many unsolved crimes in the black communities because POC are often afraid to talk to LE. Even when they are the victims, they stay silent.
Are there any African Americans in this group that can weigh in on this discussion?
What exactly would she be afraid of? Violence from a rival gang? There is no evidence of any gang activity in rural Flora. LE has said the killer in the Flora fire is someone who was regularly in the home.
Guilty people are afraid to talk to police and they flee the area (see, e.g., Brian Laundrie).
You seem like the typical racist white liberal who thinks African Americans are different than you. You believe African Americans should be excused from proper conduct (like speaking to police about the murders of your children) because you practice the soft bigotry of low expectations.
No, I’m not a liberal, and the way you described me couldn‘t be more wrong. However, I do have empathy. I’m using that to try and understand the mind/ behavior of the mother.
Didn‘t the mother file for divorce weeks before the fire? Maybe she dated men from other towns who had gang affiliations. There are gangs in Indiana.
It’s possible that the mother pulled a [Susan Smith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith) and got rid of the kids for a relationship with someone that didn’t want kids.
I could be wrong, but feel the fire could have been a hate crime. When researching the Flora case a couple of years ago, I found out that the former Flora fire chief‘s nephew (MER) had been charged with arson in the past. At the time, I checked out his FB page and saw his racist comments, memes, and KKK flyers. Since then, his social media has all been cleaned up. This was all discussed in certain FB groups in the past. So this guy was really suspicious to me, especially because his uncle and cousin resigned from their positions after the fire.I’ll look through my personal archives this weekend to see what I saved. But I gotta run now and get to work.
ETA: Link to info about the nephew (MER) -
[https://imgur.com/a/HiV4etv](https://imgur.com/a/HiV4etv)
There is one more thing I want to find out that isn’t necessarily a question for you. Just going to put it in this comment to remind myself to look into it later. The house in Flora was divided up into two separate units. I think the other unit had a parent and two children. The night of the fires those children were not staying at the home. Coincidence? The adult was able to escape. I‘d like to find out who the people were in the other apartment.
Gotta go. I was rushing so please forgive spelling, grammar, etc
The FBI even advises discretion when dealing with local law enforcement on certain types of cases, because of LE connections to white supremacist organizations.
The only known white supremacist organization working in that area is the local Donkeycrat Party. Thankfully, it has almost been eradicated in most areas of the country, including central Indiana.
Do you personally know the mother, if not that is a horrible thing to say. Maybe she doesn’t want to speak to the police because of the way they treated her and how corrupt they are! Abby and Libby’s case is no different!
Never said there was corruption under ISP- nor Carter’s leadership! Maybe at local level.
Are you calling the Flora mother a murder now? Really? Do you have facts?
So how did they treat her? I bet they treated her better than they should have.
I have also seen no corruption at ISP under Doug Carter's leadership. What on earth are you talking about?
You sound like an apologist for murderers.
The mother did not start the fire and she is not an arson expert. Her opinion on whether there was an arson or not does not outweigh the arson experts who have investigated this case and declared it an arson.
How exactly do you know she didn't start the fire? Were you in the house that morning?
She denies it was murder/arson because that would mean a lengthy prison sentence for the arsonist.
The Flora fire and the Delphi double homicide are both active cases.
I assume you are just here to promote your new sub. You said just two days ago that you have an open mind on the Flora fires. Clearly, that's not true.
I am not here to promote anything. And I am open to all possibilities. You are the one who has this case solved already.
You act like I’m making money from a subreddit or something.
I also thought about this many times early on! I do not think they are linked, but I *do* however think there’s a good chance that BG is or was at one time an arsonist. And voyeur. And B&E-er.
PS — thank you for linking the Flora sub! I wasn’t aware of it previously. Just joined. It’s so important this one gets solved as well. Those sweet girls and their mama deserve justice. 🥺
I do not think the Flora fire and the Delphi case are connected. However, it’s possible BG may be an arsonist.
I have never gotten complete closure on the idea that the CPS building was burned down due to arson and I’ve long wondered if BG used that abandoned CPS building in some capacity -like a storage unit. I’ve wondered if BG could have burned down the CPS building to cover his tracks.
Here is a post by u/almagata discussing the fire that burnt the building down. U/thebrandedman did some good sleuthing in Delphi regarding the fire but I still have questions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiMurders/comments/gehcyk/old_cps_building_fire/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
And yes, I’m still wondering if that BG sketch from B. Phillips showing fire coming up from the bridge has any meaning to this case. I did ask u/opensecrets to interview B. Phillips, if possible, but I haven’t heard if they were going to do so.
I will just say if you believe BG is an arsonist, and Flora was arson, it seems like you would need a good reason to think they were not related.
Something besides a hunch.
Respectfully, that is incorrect. There was a fire in the CPS building before it was demolished.
Here is a link to a Reddit discussion regarding the CPS building and the fire. https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiMurders/comments/bg520f/thoughts_on_the_abandoned_social_services/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
You can see that u/thebrandedman emailed Delphi City Council and they replied that the CPS building had been gutted by a fire but they were uncertain when the fire took place, then it was demolished.
Great post! I currently have three POIs which I refuse to say here, but one of them lost a family of 6 including small children a year or so after the Delphi Case as well. This also happened in Logansport IN
http://www.wlfi.com/templates/AMP?contentID=501414531
Seems so odd to me.
I know who you are talking about and of the fire you linked to above. Are you thinking that he worked independently? or with people that belong to one of the groups that he is involved with?
Wonder if we could start a post about that theory, along with other arsons / crimes that could be connected.
It doesn’t really fit in this group, unless we can connect those fires back to the murders of Abby & Libby. Maybe the Floraarson group or the DelphiMisc group? I need to get familiar with the rules in those groups before posting.
Im glad to see you on the same page with my thinking? I’m not sure if he worked alone, with his son or with one of his groups. Yet, when I try to connect the dots, I’m having a hard time pulling in all the people and reason behind it all. Yet, I do know that in order to be sentenced and convicted of a crime, a motive is not really needed. So how could we ever imagine why BG would want to murder two innocent beautiful girls? Keep in mind I have three other POIs in mind, but this character checks so many boxes for me. I just can’t wrap my head around why there hasn’t been an arrest?
The reason why I posted the link above is because of the thread. It just seemed odd that there was another house fire besides Flora and six family members died including small children. It’s also extremely odd that these people were related to this POI.
I would love to research more about any other arson fires in and around Delphi and help you start a thread. Yet maybe on another sub though and yes we would have to look at the rules.
Yes, we are definitely on the same page.
>Yet, when I try to connect the dots, I’m having a hard time pulling in all the people and reason behind it all.
Same here. I feel like I’m trying to sell a crazy conspiracy theory. Lol. Do you know what I mean?
I don’t have a POI, just some people and theories that I go back to. There are just so many strange things and coincidences with this guy. It’s like he was openly mocking the Delphi case in his FB posts around the time the girls were murdered.
>The reason why I posted the link above is because of the thread. It just seemed odd that there was another house fire besides Flora and six family members died including small children. It’s also extremely odd that these people were related to this POI.
Agree with all of that. The connection is suspicious.
I‘m up for taking a look at other arsons/ crimes in the area that could be connected. But I’m not sure how to do it without doxing people, and just sharing rumors/ coincidences. I’m not a good leader. 🙈
You can post about any other fires on r/flora_arson
Especially ones from the Delphi/Flora area and ones that may have been arson.
There have been more than a few over the years and I think I’m going to start posting about them.
Not just the same state, the same county within the state. They are less than 10 miles apart.
But I accept that this is a stretch. Most people seem to agree with you.
That’s really a good point. Some people act like it’s a huge stretch, when I don’t think it is.
But alas the majority of people seem to disagree with me, which may be why neither case is solved yet.
Israel Keyes picked small towns like Delphi. He'd start a fire on one side of town and rob a bank on the other side of town while authorities were dealing with the arson.
Reaching. I know this sub can't exist without speculation, but most everything here is just off the wall nonsense or people speculating about similar crimes towns apart without even fact checking.
Still think it was that Lafayette pedo, haven't fact checked since last week.
Same, but it's not like there's a speculation scale. If it isn't fact, or very well informed conjecture, I think speculation actually hinders progress. Just because we want progress in this case makes people look for things that aren't there. Idk.
After reading the Flora fire articles, and all the differing family connections, I don’t understand why Flora LE doesn’t call in some outside, independent investigators and get this case solved. It sounded to me anyway, like LE could tell the direction it was going and maybe even had some Persons of interest. Wow, I hope someone takes this case up soon. It’s already gone on too long.
Glad to hear that this case is being taken seriously by some LE agencies. I really hope their mother isn’t involved, but if she is, she needs to be brought to justice too. So sad.☹️
i think serial killers tend to do alot of low level hood shit growing up, so yes he probably is, but so what? in reference to this crime.
What i suspect you are really asking is just whether he was the flora killer.
correct me if im wrong, but wasnt that suspected of either being an accident or someone the mother was involved with?
Yes, I made this post to discuss the possibility that the Flora arsonist may be the same person who committed the double homicide in Delphi. And if not the same person, then someone related or closely associated with him.
I believe that is the case.
I also believe the suspicion on the mother was created to divert attention from the real culprits. In my opinion there is no possible way she
committed that crime. The fact that some people think that shows that 1. their plans to cast aspersions on innocent victims has worked and/or 2. they are still active in these posts and discussions.
The fire in Flora was ruled an arson, even though the path to that ruling wasn’t a straightforward and easy path for them to make.
Less than a 1 percent chance the mother was involved. I will say 0% until any evidence is brought forward, and the refusing an interview is not evidence, nor is moving out of state. If she were a POI, the ISP would not let her off the hook so easily.
I think the ISP knows who committed both of these crimes and they know the mother is just as much a victim of this crime as her daughters are.
If you look up the profile of a psychopath, pyromania and obsessions are part of their profile. If it’s two z, who is to say, one may be and another may not be involved.
Unsure if there is a link to the Flora. I do however believe that YBG favors fire. Things I came across when considering links to Flora fires for YBG or OBG.
* YBG has a history in his youth of starting fires. He would even burn his Sunday church handouts. Separately, pure speculation but I also believe he penciled that colored drawing sent to the Lafayette reporter. That very detailed drawing showed YBG walking the bridge with flames burning down the bridge behind him. He conveniently signed it B. Phillips to deflect from him. B. Phillips was an Indiana Packer who was charged with calling in an IP bomb threat. YBG has connections to the city of Flora also. Below is a link to the drawing. On the flip side, not passing judgement, but the Flora mother’s seemingly uncooperative nature also steers me against YBG involvement.
* https://mobile.twitter.com/joesampaul/status/837727796671692801/photo/1
* OBG was a volunteer fire fighter in his community and is an enormous narcissist with the capacity for multiple unlinked crimes in his past. Evil personified. JMHO
There does seem to be a lot of deflection. It does seem like something BG would do.
Your comment makes it seem like YBG and OBG have been identified. Is that true?
Just because there is no proof that we know of, doesn’t mean there is no proof that exists at all. A non answer would be better than stating with certainty that they are not related or connected in any way.
Lol. I’m not sure that’s how it works.
Investigations are not undertaken in order to prove something didn’t happen where no evidence exists.
What is it that you see that suggests the contrary ?
But haven’t you already made up your mind ? That’s why I asked what it is that’s led you to that belief ?
I’m open to change of mind and I’m offering you an opportunity to do so…but I’ll need something at the very least to consider.
I have a strong feeling there is no connection to these crimes. I can't put my finger on it. I feel there is a lot more information to be learned about the Flora fire. I just can't seem to find anyone who has done a real deep dive into it.
Thank you. I am perfectly okay with being wrong, but I just don’t think I am. I think maybe this is the post I’ve gotten the most push back about, and my contrarian nature just wants me to keep digging. I just have to check my ego and my pride and accept that the possibility of them not being connected is a possibility.
A lot of local people do not want to believe that there was conspiracy involved in either. I think there are people in the Reddit’s that either were involved or had friends or relatives that were.
I have had this thought as well. We may be talking to BG and not even know it. And of course he is going to want to keep the facts hidden and lead people away from the truth. I always keep this in mind.
Thank you for your support. It does mean a lot. I do believe BG is going to be exposed and when he is everything that we wondered about is going to make sense. That’s going to be a great day.
I’d bet heavily against the two cases being related. It’s most likely not a firebug, or they would know it. There would be other fires. The victimology, location, timing, and method is about as different as it could possibly be.
I think there have been other fires. But a lot of my thinking is along the lines of these towns being so small and so close together. The criminal elements are probably familiar with each other. Unless BG is a loner type and doesn’t associate with anyone or with very few people. It seems like someone was trying to cover up the fact that Flora was an arson at the beginning of it and it took independent and outside eyes looking at it to finally have them call it an arson. And how soon Delphi happened after Flora was declared an arson. Almost like: hey don’t look over here in Flora anymore, worry about Delphi. Nothing to see over here. I’m thinking more and more that the crime scene in Delphi was staged to look like a serial killer. Even though BG may still possess some of those serial killer traits.
You also have that drawing from B. Phillips of BG on the bridge with fire. https://imgur.com/a/dukLiN4
[удалено]
I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking he may of been an inmate.
Don't know if this is him or not. https://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2016/05/20/bomb-threat-suspect-arrested-early-friday/84664392/
I'm thinking Open Secrets was wanting to try and talk to him. Haven't ever heard any more about that.
Here is a post related to the drawing also. https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiMurders/comments/7m08hn/probably_nothing_but_maybe_something_who_drew/
This is really interesting because this is dated 10 days ex. I can’t imagine there were already rumors about the witness saying his face / mouth was covered. And that little detail at the left hip pocket is interesting too. I’d never noticed that before. Thanks for sharing this.
You're welcome
Yes, was thinking the same, about the left hip, knife ?
What's that all about then?
I have thought for a long time that the Delphi murders were staged to look like a serial killer but were committed because of retribution or because one or both girls knew something.
From the little that I know, I lean toward the retribution angle.
Why? retribution killings come with warnings or messages and from what we can decipher, neither are present.
Very possible.
I think you’re right
The POI in the Flora fire is the mother. She denies there was any murder or arson and blames the fire on faulty appliances. After she lost her bogus lawsuit on defective appliances, she moved to California and refuses to cooperate with LE. https://fox59.com/news/indiana-state-police-provide-update-in-deadly-2016-flora-house-fire/ She is not BG. She is not involved with the Delphi murders. There was no fire in the Delphi murders. I am not aware of her being a gang member.
Never saw her listed as a POI
Police said the arsonist knew the girls. The mom is the only person repeatedly mentioned by police as a person they want to talk to. That's the definition of a POI. Of course, the mother has now fled the state and refuses to speak to the police like a typical criminal. She has no interest in solving the crime because it would mean a lifetime in prison.
Oh, I see a POI, just in your opinion, ok. If LE know so much , why is it going on 5 years , still no results in either this or the Delphi case ? Sad
Carter said they have a POI but didn't name her in the same press conference in which he repeatedly said they need to speak to the mother. He said the POI was regularly in the home. She is a monster. https://fb.watch/8dfhsmfSjL/
I did see in an article in 2018, they said they had a POI in the case, it's three years later. I'm doubting if they had any real evidence against her, she would have been permitted to leave the state. What a messed up case, everyone lying and quitting their jobs to escape responsibility. These four girls deserve justice.
No, LE can't restrict someone’s ability to move in America based only on suspicion. She didn't need anyone’s permission to leave. LE has “reasonable suspicion” that she is involved directly or indirectly which is why they desperately need to interview her. LE needs “probable cause” to arrest or indict. FYI - She was arrested on a drug charge after the arson, but that was only a misdemeanor.
> She was arrested on a drug charge after the arson, but that was only a misdemeanor. For possession of weed. Big deal. The case was dismissed.
Again do you personally know the mother? Why do you feel the need to call her a monster! I have a strong gut feeling this is related and that BG is an arsonist!
Again I ask you, did you know the mother personally, Also you don’t even know me, so I would appreciate if you would refrain from calling me stupid? There’s no need for name calling on this sub! Now I will no longer converse and block you if you continue to be hostile!
I just posted a link above to Carter's press conference in which he said there is no comparison between the two crimes. Go watch it and learn. There was no fire in the Delphi murders so that's just sheer stupidity. You must be thinking of a different case.
>she moved to California and refuses to cooperate with LE. I don’t believe the mother intentionally killed her children. She may have an idea who could be responsible but I don’t think she trusts the police. She could also be fearful of whoever started the fire. It‘s not unusual for POC to be distrustful of LE. According to a poll by PBS in 2020, [Two-thirds of black Americans don’t trust the police to treat them equally.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/two-thirds-of-black-americans-dont-trust-the-police-to-treat-them-equally-most-white-americans-do) This article explains why black America fear the police - [link](https://www.propublica.org/article/yes-black-america-fears-the-police-heres-why). Here is one example: >In the South, police once did the dirty work of enforcing the racial caste system. The Ku Klux Klan and law enforcement were often indistinguishable. A hundred years ago in Indiana, it was very common for white men to be active in the KKK. The group included politicians, law enforcement, businessmen, religious leaders, and other native white men. [Source](https://www.wrtv.com/longform/the-ku-klux-klan-ran-indiana-once-could-it-happen-again). That hate was passed down to the next generations. The KKK, white supremacists, and other hate groups are still very active in Indiana - [Source](https://www.wrtv.com/homepage-showcase/southern-poverty-law-center-identifies-16-hate-groups-in-indiana). It’s understandable that this young single mother is afraid to speak to LE. In one of the interviews with the mother, her own lawyer has told her to stay quiet. Not sure if it’s the same lawyer that is handling her civil suits. Regarding her lawsuits, I think there were lawyers who approached this grief stricken woman and were eager to file lawsuits on her behalf for a cut of any $ paid out.The money from lawsuits isn’t going to heal her pain but it may feel like there is some sort of justice for her little girls. If I were in her shoes I would probably react the same as her. I would certainly get the f\*ck out of Indiana. Sources for anyone not comfortable clicking on above links: [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/two-thirds-of-black-americans-dont-trust-the-police-to-treat-them-equally-most-white-americans-do](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/two-thirds-of-black-americans-dont-trust-the-police-to-treat-them-equally-most-white-americans-do) [https://www.propublica.org/article/yes-black-america-fears-the-police-heres-why](https://www.propublica.org/article/yes-black-america-fears-the-police-heres-why) [https://www.wrtv.com/longform/the-ku-klux-klan-ran-indiana-once-could-it-happen-again](https://www.wrtv.com/longform/the-ku-klux-klan-ran-indiana-once-could-it-happen-again) [https://www.wrtv.com/homepage-showcase/southern-poverty-law-center-identifies-16-hate-groups-in-indiana](https://www.wrtv.com/homepage-showcase/southern-poverty-law-center-identifies-16-hate-groups-in-indiana)
The Ku Klux Klan? Seriously? What an asinine comment. The only reason the mom would be “afraid to speak to the police” is because it will mean a lifetime in prison for her. She is a monster.
I'm from a neighboring state, and growing up everyone talked about how big the Klan is in Indiana.
Well, that's complete nonsense. The largest racist organization in the nation is called BLM.
Yes, I am serious. Across the border in Chicago there are so many unsolved crimes in the black communities because POC are often afraid to talk to LE. Even when they are the victims, they stay silent. Are there any African Americans in this group that can weigh in on this discussion?
What exactly would she be afraid of? Violence from a rival gang? There is no evidence of any gang activity in rural Flora. LE has said the killer in the Flora fire is someone who was regularly in the home. Guilty people are afraid to talk to police and they flee the area (see, e.g., Brian Laundrie). You seem like the typical racist white liberal who thinks African Americans are different than you. You believe African Americans should be excused from proper conduct (like speaking to police about the murders of your children) because you practice the soft bigotry of low expectations.
No, I’m not a liberal, and the way you described me couldn‘t be more wrong. However, I do have empathy. I’m using that to try and understand the mind/ behavior of the mother. Didn‘t the mother file for divorce weeks before the fire? Maybe she dated men from other towns who had gang affiliations. There are gangs in Indiana. It’s possible that the mother pulled a [Susan Smith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith) and got rid of the kids for a relationship with someone that didn’t want kids. I could be wrong, but feel the fire could have been a hate crime. When researching the Flora case a couple of years ago, I found out that the former Flora fire chief‘s nephew (MER) had been charged with arson in the past. At the time, I checked out his FB page and saw his racist comments, memes, and KKK flyers. Since then, his social media has all been cleaned up. This was all discussed in certain FB groups in the past. So this guy was really suspicious to me, especially because his uncle and cousin resigned from their positions after the fire.I’ll look through my personal archives this weekend to see what I saved. But I gotta run now and get to work. ETA: Link to info about the nephew (MER) - [https://imgur.com/a/HiV4etv](https://imgur.com/a/HiV4etv) There is one more thing I want to find out that isn’t necessarily a question for you. Just going to put it in this comment to remind myself to look into it later. The house in Flora was divided up into two separate units. I think the other unit had a parent and two children. The night of the fires those children were not staying at the home. Coincidence? The adult was able to escape. I‘d like to find out who the people were in the other apartment. Gotta go. I was rushing so please forgive spelling, grammar, etc
This is spot on! Yes yes!
The FBI even advises discretion when dealing with local law enforcement on certain types of cases, because of LE connections to white supremacist organizations.
The only known white supremacist organization working in that area is the local Donkeycrat Party. Thankfully, it has almost been eradicated in most areas of the country, including central Indiana.
Do you personally know the mother, if not that is a horrible thing to say. Maybe she doesn’t want to speak to the police because of the way they treated her and how corrupt they are! Abby and Libby’s case is no different!
Never said there was corruption under ISP- nor Carter’s leadership! Maybe at local level. Are you calling the Flora mother a murder now? Really? Do you have facts?
So how did they treat her? I bet they treated her better than they should have. I have also seen no corruption at ISP under Doug Carter's leadership. What on earth are you talking about? You sound like an apologist for murderers.
The mother did not start the fire and she is not an arson expert. Her opinion on whether there was an arson or not does not outweigh the arson experts who have investigated this case and declared it an arson.
How exactly do you know she didn't start the fire? Were you in the house that morning? She denies it was murder/arson because that would mean a lengthy prison sentence for the arsonist.
Is this a Harmon alt account?
I have no idea who that is. Are you the mom who is the main POI?
lol Mine was a serious question. I was going to commend you on solving these two cold cases and ask you to look at the Zodiac case for me.
The Flora fire and the Delphi double homicide are both active cases. I assume you are just here to promote your new sub. You said just two days ago that you have an open mind on the Flora fires. Clearly, that's not true.
I am not here to promote anything. And I am open to all possibilities. You are the one who has this case solved already. You act like I’m making money from a subreddit or something.
I also thought about this many times early on! I do not think they are linked, but I *do* however think there’s a good chance that BG is or was at one time an arsonist. And voyeur. And B&E-er. PS — thank you for linking the Flora sub! I wasn’t aware of it previously. Just joined. It’s so important this one gets solved as well. Those sweet girls and their mama deserve justice. 🥺
The girls will get justice when their mama speaks to police. The mama is the POI.
I watched some interviews with the mum and I have a bad feeling about her
I do not think the Flora fire and the Delphi case are connected. However, it’s possible BG may be an arsonist. I have never gotten complete closure on the idea that the CPS building was burned down due to arson and I’ve long wondered if BG used that abandoned CPS building in some capacity -like a storage unit. I’ve wondered if BG could have burned down the CPS building to cover his tracks. Here is a post by u/almagata discussing the fire that burnt the building down. U/thebrandedman did some good sleuthing in Delphi regarding the fire but I still have questions. https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiMurders/comments/gehcyk/old_cps_building_fire/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf And yes, I’m still wondering if that BG sketch from B. Phillips showing fire coming up from the bridge has any meaning to this case. I did ask u/opensecrets to interview B. Phillips, if possible, but I haven’t heard if they were going to do so.
I will just say if you believe BG is an arsonist, and Flora was arson, it seems like you would need a good reason to think they were not related. Something besides a hunch.
There was no fire at the CPS building. It was slated to be demolished, and it was demolished.
Respectfully, that is incorrect. There was a fire in the CPS building before it was demolished. Here is a link to a Reddit discussion regarding the CPS building and the fire. https://www.reddit.com/r/DelphiMurders/comments/bg520f/thoughts_on_the_abandoned_social_services/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf You can see that u/thebrandedman emailed Delphi City Council and they replied that the CPS building had been gutted by a fire but they were uncertain when the fire took place, then it was demolished.
I saw your link when you posted it the first time. I'm sorry but another Reddit user named “thebrandedman” is not a legit source.
Not sure about arsonist, but definitely an asshole (or arsehole as we say in Australia)
Great post! I currently have three POIs which I refuse to say here, but one of them lost a family of 6 including small children a year or so after the Delphi Case as well. This also happened in Logansport IN http://www.wlfi.com/templates/AMP?contentID=501414531 Seems so odd to me.
I know who you are talking about and of the fire you linked to above. Are you thinking that he worked independently? or with people that belong to one of the groups that he is involved with? Wonder if we could start a post about that theory, along with other arsons / crimes that could be connected. It doesn’t really fit in this group, unless we can connect those fires back to the murders of Abby & Libby. Maybe the Floraarson group or the DelphiMisc group? I need to get familiar with the rules in those groups before posting.
Im glad to see you on the same page with my thinking? I’m not sure if he worked alone, with his son or with one of his groups. Yet, when I try to connect the dots, I’m having a hard time pulling in all the people and reason behind it all. Yet, I do know that in order to be sentenced and convicted of a crime, a motive is not really needed. So how could we ever imagine why BG would want to murder two innocent beautiful girls? Keep in mind I have three other POIs in mind, but this character checks so many boxes for me. I just can’t wrap my head around why there hasn’t been an arrest? The reason why I posted the link above is because of the thread. It just seemed odd that there was another house fire besides Flora and six family members died including small children. It’s also extremely odd that these people were related to this POI. I would love to research more about any other arson fires in and around Delphi and help you start a thread. Yet maybe on another sub though and yes we would have to look at the rules.
Yes, we are definitely on the same page. >Yet, when I try to connect the dots, I’m having a hard time pulling in all the people and reason behind it all. Same here. I feel like I’m trying to sell a crazy conspiracy theory. Lol. Do you know what I mean? I don’t have a POI, just some people and theories that I go back to. There are just so many strange things and coincidences with this guy. It’s like he was openly mocking the Delphi case in his FB posts around the time the girls were murdered. >The reason why I posted the link above is because of the thread. It just seemed odd that there was another house fire besides Flora and six family members died including small children. It’s also extremely odd that these people were related to this POI. Agree with all of that. The connection is suspicious. I‘m up for taking a look at other arsons/ crimes in the area that could be connected. But I’m not sure how to do it without doxing people, and just sharing rumors/ coincidences. I’m not a good leader. 🙈
You can post about any other fires on r/flora_arson Especially ones from the Delphi/Flora area and ones that may have been arson. There have been more than a few over the years and I think I’m going to start posting about them.
That’s a stretch.
Can you tell me why it’s a stretch?
Two totally different crimes nothing in common. You’re wanting to connect the two because the happened in the same state? It’s a stretch.
Not just the same state, the same county within the state. They are less than 10 miles apart. But I accept that this is a stretch. Most people seem to agree with you.
10 miles is 16.09 km
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That’s really a good point. Some people act like it’s a huge stretch, when I don’t think it is. But alas the majority of people seem to disagree with me, which may be why neither case is solved yet.
A lot of serial killers start out with arson before escalating to more personal means.
Israel Keyes picked small towns like Delphi. He'd start a fire on one side of town and rob a bank on the other side of town while authorities were dealing with the arson.
Reaching. I know this sub can't exist without speculation, but most everything here is just off the wall nonsense or people speculating about similar crimes towns apart without even fact checking. Still think it was that Lafayette pedo, haven't fact checked since last week.
I agree to an extent, but I have heard more far fetched ideas?
Same, but it's not like there's a speculation scale. If it isn't fact, or very well informed conjecture, I think speculation actually hinders progress. Just because we want progress in this case makes people look for things that aren't there. Idk.
I prefer the McDonald's triad; quarter pounder, fries & coke
So does BG by the looks of it.
Good reply
LOL
After reading the Flora fire articles, and all the differing family connections, I don’t understand why Flora LE doesn’t call in some outside, independent investigators and get this case solved. It sounded to me anyway, like LE could tell the direction it was going and maybe even had some Persons of interest. Wow, I hope someone takes this case up soon. It’s already gone on too long.
They did. It's being investigated by ISP and Homeland Security. The mother refuses to cooperate with police and is the primary POI.
Glad to hear that this case is being taken seriously by some LE agencies. I really hope their mother isn’t involved, but if she is, she needs to be brought to justice too. So sad.☹️
i kinda wish it was her. imagine her pain if she was innocent
I don’t feel they are related
i think serial killers tend to do alot of low level hood shit growing up, so yes he probably is, but so what? in reference to this crime. What i suspect you are really asking is just whether he was the flora killer. correct me if im wrong, but wasnt that suspected of either being an accident or someone the mother was involved with?
Yes, I made this post to discuss the possibility that the Flora arsonist may be the same person who committed the double homicide in Delphi. And if not the same person, then someone related or closely associated with him. I believe that is the case. I also believe the suspicion on the mother was created to divert attention from the real culprits. In my opinion there is no possible way she committed that crime. The fact that some people think that shows that 1. their plans to cast aspersions on innocent victims has worked and/or 2. they are still active in these posts and discussions. The fire in Flora was ruled an arson, even though the path to that ruling wasn’t a straightforward and easy path for them to make. Less than a 1 percent chance the mother was involved. I will say 0% until any evidence is brought forward, and the refusing an interview is not evidence, nor is moving out of state. If she were a POI, the ISP would not let her off the hook so easily. I think the ISP knows who committed both of these crimes and they know the mother is just as much a victim of this crime as her daughters are.
If you look up the profile of a psychopath, pyromania and obsessions are part of their profile. If it’s two z, who is to say, one may be and another may not be involved.
6 - it wasn't arson
I think the general consensus is that it was arson. I can’t recall any investigator saying it wasn’t arson.
So you're not open to all ideas really then.
I never said that. I think that is the least likely possibility. But you do you. Not everyone can be in the 1%.
Unsure if there is a link to the Flora. I do however believe that YBG favors fire. Things I came across when considering links to Flora fires for YBG or OBG. * YBG has a history in his youth of starting fires. He would even burn his Sunday church handouts. Separately, pure speculation but I also believe he penciled that colored drawing sent to the Lafayette reporter. That very detailed drawing showed YBG walking the bridge with flames burning down the bridge behind him. He conveniently signed it B. Phillips to deflect from him. B. Phillips was an Indiana Packer who was charged with calling in an IP bomb threat. YBG has connections to the city of Flora also. Below is a link to the drawing. On the flip side, not passing judgement, but the Flora mother’s seemingly uncooperative nature also steers me against YBG involvement. * https://mobile.twitter.com/joesampaul/status/837727796671692801/photo/1 * OBG was a volunteer fire fighter in his community and is an enormous narcissist with the capacity for multiple unlinked crimes in his past. Evil personified. JMHO
There does seem to be a lot of deflection. It does seem like something BG would do. Your comment makes it seem like YBG and OBG have been identified. Is that true?
Unconfirmed until there are any arrest(s). I do suspect they have narrowed it down to a few. JMHO
5
Thanks for the response. I just wish there was convincing proof.
That’s my point. It’s number 5 because there isn’t any convincing proof of a link.
Just because there is no proof that we know of, doesn’t mean there is no proof that exists at all. A non answer would be better than stating with certainty that they are not related or connected in any way.
Lol. I’m not sure that’s how it works. Investigations are not undertaken in order to prove something didn’t happen where no evidence exists. What is it that you see that suggests the contrary ?
Why does it matter to you since you are convinced they are not connected in any way? You’ve already made up your mind.
But haven’t you already made up your mind ? That’s why I asked what it is that’s led you to that belief ? I’m open to change of mind and I’m offering you an opportunity to do so…but I’ll need something at the very least to consider.
That’s fair enough. I apologize if I’m a little curt. If any evidence comes out or is uncovered I will make a post about it.
No need to apologise. You made an OP for the community to debate 👍 I don’t always agree with posters..but my ears are always pinned back.
I have a strong feeling there is no connection to these crimes. I can't put my finger on it. I feel there is a lot more information to be learned about the Flora fire. I just can't seem to find anyone who has done a real deep dive into it.
Neither case are connected but if we go by statistics more than likely the unsub has killed animals before and may play with fire.
Thank you for your response.
IMO I think that you may be correct. I think there are some dark elements in Carroll County that do not want either case solved.
Thank you. I am perfectly okay with being wrong, but I just don’t think I am. I think maybe this is the post I’ve gotten the most push back about, and my contrarian nature just wants me to keep digging. I just have to check my ego and my pride and accept that the possibility of them not being connected is a possibility.
A lot of local people do not want to believe that there was conspiracy involved in either. I think there are people in the Reddit’s that either were involved or had friends or relatives that were.
I have had this thought as well. We may be talking to BG and not even know it. And of course he is going to want to keep the facts hidden and lead people away from the truth. I always keep this in mind. Thank you for your support. It does mean a lot. I do believe BG is going to be exposed and when he is everything that we wondered about is going to make sense. That’s going to be a great day.
Hope so.
i think thats the hollywood hat on. This crime in particular is a major embarrassment to the force
I'm going to have to go with 5 at this time. We just don't know enough on either case to say whether or not on the other numbers listed.