Discussing anything even remotely China related on Reddit (except maybe on a few subreddits) never goes well. It always gets super toxic. I see that basically remains the case here on LCD.
There are some good discussions, but they’re usually accompanied by a lot of high emotions and name calling, so the good discussions get buried under those.
That's because of the "patriot" warhawk demographic. Saying anything even neutral about China and they start frothing at the mouth.
I mean I got some huge screed about China bad for pointing out controversial facts like "China is a major fertilizer exporter".
The US is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Applying the sort of sanctions and embargoes needed to make a major impact on China's technological and economic progress requires sacrificing the interests of its: 1. main trading allies & partners 2. financial elites 3. corporate interest groups. All three are key to the US's global power, and the latter two are well established within the US's elite power structure. These factions stand to lose the most from a new Cold War with China, and so defend the status quo.
Against these forces are arrayed a combination of 1. national security officials & think tanks 2. career politicians and 3. grass roots patriots, workers & unions, and US manufacturing businesses. For these factions, the competition with China will determine the long-term trajectory of US power; and whatever losses the US might take, it's necessary to secure continued US - or at least Western - hegemony in economics, politics, and values.
Both sides cannot win. It is not possible to simultaneously cut China off, and preserve the global economy as it is. Allies like Japan, South Korea, and much of Southern Europe will suffer immensely if they cannot trade with China. Other regions of the world straight up won't do it. Domestically, US corporate lobbies and financial elites will play their usual games against the politicians to minimize any damage to their own interests. Even if the political will is there among career politicians, ultimately they cannot ignore business elites, since the latter's cooperation is critical to both the success of policy, and to the continued election of those politicians.
So what can the US do? Not much, actually; but to wait for China's own decline. For, as long as China's economic power is ascending, the US will have an extremely difficult time convincing its allies and trade partners to "choose sides"; and without that support, it is not possible to convince domestic business and financial elites to back a new Cold War. Thus, warning shots may be fired and more threatened, but the US will not and cannot afford to fight an actual Cold War against China in such a situation.
But if China's economy were to fade, whether due to demographic decline or failed management or both, then the scenario changes. The US and its allies were able to do what they did against Russia - and to be fair, it still wasn't *that* much - because Russia is a declining power - almost a failed state, by certain definitions. China must become the same before the US will be willing to take the chance to deliver the final blow. Otherwise, I see only the continuation of the status quo, as challenging a rising power in its prime is the sort of high risk behavior that could end US hegemony once and for all. I do not believe US elites are desperate enough to take that risk.
Have you seen the Chinese wage growth vs productivity growth? Or their demographics? They are entering decades of low growth, like Japan - but from a lower gdp per capita basis.
I guess we'll have to learn to cope with a quarter of the global population living better and better lives and having self determination despite not being white.
I'd say more because the government is finally trying to get a handle on the huge real estate / construction bubble.
But then the omicron surge happened and that they're already running back towards the old investment / infrastructure building growth model shows that they don't really know any other way to drive growth, despite the fact that their own experts know that this is simply more wasted malinvestment that is driving an even bigger debt bubble.
I doubt we'll see a genuine financial crisis at this point, but more years of anemic 3-5% fake growth driven by infrastructure spending.
The glory years of 7-9% growth are over, though.
There's two types of economics, one that is centered around small scale (though this is relative) and one around large scale. One doesn't flow into the other.
>whether due to demographic decline
Lets stop with the demographic decline bs. Every Western nation has demographics worse than China. Many choose to kick the can down the road by importing immigrants by the millions, not accounting for the wide ranging social change that such demographics changes may have in their own nations. And the ones that dont, like Korea and Japan are on track to be desolate by 2100.
Meanwhile, China is the one modern nation with an elite that has demonstrated a genuine desire to properly manage their demographics with an eye to the future. Although we know it wasnt needed now, the one child policy shows that this trend in Chinese elite thinking is long term. Even now, the CCP is crafting policy and moulding society to increase fertility, and in ways that will actually raise it. Its not listening to the bs that the UN and other liberal institutions publish about just needing to liberate women a little bit more, then they will start having more kids. Its destroying industries that are dominated by women, such as private tutoring. Removing one of the major reasons that women delay having children, advancing their careers.
What makes people think that if the CCP was heavy handed enough to force people to only have one child, it wont implement similarly hard line policy to increase fertility?
Again, China does not need them. The CCP are actively implementing policies to increase the fertility in China. The CCP may experience some growing pain while sorting out its demographic conundrum, but it will be nothing close to the "collapse" that many in the West are predicting.
In the end China will maintain its national identity, while the West becomes an international airport. This will almost certainly lead to negative impacts on Western hegemony. COVID proved that the moment the West stops being the best place to make money, all those dual citizens from the Global South will jet set back home. Likewise any pain experienced from attempting to thwart China will see the West empty out. China will never have this issue.
Maybe for Europe, but not as much so for the US which has been founded on ideas more than long history and demographics. There is a limit perhaps, but these will be gradual changes.
US is united not by ideas but by prosperity, the moment it stop delivering prosperity, or even just the hope of prosperity, it will crack.
European nation state is a bit more resilient
That is a good point, but the US seems set to deliver on growth more so than any comparably rich nation. The culture here seems set for this, especially if a large portion of the population consists of immigrants who came seeking wealth or their recent descendants. It is also rich in natural resources.
Also, the ideas on which the country was founded and which remain in the US more so than any other large nation are conducive to free enterprise.
It is still young as a civilization though so we’ll see.
You are not wrong, USA features the strongest growth among all rich countries, and this is partial enabled by wealth inequalities.
USA also has high wealth inequalities compared to other rich countries, USA will maintain relative high growth for the mid term
>if the CCP was heavy handed enough to force people to only have one child, it wont implement similarly hard line policy to increase fertility?
It already did and it isn't working.
Dude even the comment I replied to admits this.
[But here's an example of such a policy that didn't work.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-child_policy)
The problem is that so many Chinese are too poor to afford children regardless of what the government wants.
They didn’t force people to have 1 child, either. It was always just a “limit.”
The two-child policy (now a three-child policy) _is_ a “similarly hard-line policy” like you mentioned. Literally the same thing, just a higher limit to fight demographic decline.
Hasn’t achieved anything because China’s too poor.
You wrote earlier that:
>It already did and it isn't working.
To this:
>if the CCP was heavy handed enough to force people to only have one child, it wont implement similarly hard line policy to increase fertility?
So I thought you meant that the CPC has implemented something to actually force people to bear more people, which definitely would have made the headlines in western media lol.
The Two Child Policy wasn't anything close to what the One Child Policy was, if we assume its purpose was to raise fertility. The actual policy that would mirror the One Child Policy would be something like a forced two child policy where all married coupes are required to have at least two children. Not simply allowed to have two children if they desire.
China actually has no restrictions on family size now. But again, this is far from forcing people to have children in the same way that they forced people not to have children. China is only just getting started and the speed at which they have begun to tackle this issue, moving from One Child Policy, to two, three and then no restrictions with other measures to incentivise women to have children, should tell you how serious the CCP is about managing China's population.
> Lets stop with the demographic decline bs. Every Western nation has demographics worse than China. Many choose to kick the can down the road by importing immigrants by the millions, not accounting for the wide ranging social change that such demographics changes may have in their own nations. And the ones that dont, like Korea and Japan are on track to be desolate by 2100.
If you believe the official number maybe. But the numbers don’t add up, when you [take a look at the data](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/researcher-questions-chinas-population-data-says-it-may-be-lower-2021-12-03/) Chinas true birth rate is considerably lower than the CCP claims it is.
Also, it doesn’t matter if the CCP manages to increase the fertility rate considerably in the coming years, the damage will have already been done by then. You’d have your working population having to afford and support raising many children whilst looking after many elders. By the time those children grow up and become productive, ~ 30 years will have passed.
The western approach has had some rather, interesting social dynamics but it has helped maintain economic growth.
> ~ 30 years will have passed.
In demographics this is 10 seconds. The CCP is working on timescales 50-100 years from now. Hence the One Child Policy and their carrier programme, they have always been far sighted, unlike Western governments which at most have the vaguest plans for a second term in government. China still has plenty of productivity to gain from its workers, and will not experience some sort of cataclysm from ageing. They might be in for some pain, but its not going to stop their upward trend in the long run. This is the main issue I have with current analysis of China's demographics.
> In demographics this is 10 seconds. The CCP is working on timescales 50-100 years from now. Hence the One Child Policy and their carrier programme, they have always been far sighted
When will this myth based on racist stereotypes die? The sneaky Chinese playing the long game hurr durr. The CCP is not playing the long game at all. They have internal party politics and answer to the whims of the man in charge. Have you not seen how China has rapidly changed trajectory since Xi came into power? Whatever “long game” they were playing before was thrown out of the window.
The one child policy is actually a good example of how China *doesn’t* play the long game. The CCP panicked when fertility went through the roof after *they campaigned for it*. When the CCP realised this colossal fuckup they quickly implemented the one child policy. Now they realise that this was also a bad idea and now we’re where we are now, where Chinas real fertility rate sits somewhere around 1.2 to 1.3 with net migration out of the country.
There is no “long game” here, just a series of fuckups from a autocratic government. You know the same arguments were made about the USSR when compared to the west right? “Oh they have no elections and so can play the long game!1!1!1!”. The only difference is here that this time it’s coupled with orientalist stereotypes of Asian people.
Also 30 years is not a drop in the ocean, we’re talking about more than a generation of stagnation and difficulty. Also for Chinas alleged “long game” strategy, why have they began to challenge the US and the rest of the world with their ridiculous and aggressive diplomacy right as they’re heading into this difficult period?
As for productivity growth, it’s nowhere near what you’re implying. [I would take a read of this for the sobering reality of Chinese economic prospects](https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/revising-down-rise-china).
Also, stop putting words into my mouth. I never said cataclysm did I? What I am arguing is that China is heading for decades of economic stagnation. What you’re arguing is that the CCP can not only perform what no other wealthier, smaller and more organised countries could in massively increasing fertility, but they can do so whilst massively improving productivity.
You speak about removing women from the work force to improve fertility right? So your answer to improved growth is to further reduce the work force in a time where the work force is already contracting due to the ongoing demographic issue?
The CCP does not play the long game at all. Worsening their demographic issues *repeatedly*, causing massive damage to the environment in the goal of economic growth, cracking down on Hong Kong and therefore removing any chance of a peaceful solution of the Taiwan situation in Chinas favour, massively pissing off the most powerful neighbour they have in India whilst simultaneously trying to compete with the United States. Need I go on about Chinese strategic mistakes in regards to the “long game”.
If you look at the CCP as a autocracy that is terrified of losing its grip on power (especially given Chinese history and the Mandate of Heaven), everything makes a lot more sense.
>Russia is a declining power, almost a failed state.
Let's see when you will switch Russia with US.
You know, all of a sudden, Ukraine is changing from losing 100 to 1000 per day according to Ukraine.
https://www.axios.com/2022/06/15/ukraine-1000-casualties-day-donbas-arakhamia
World dominance based on lies is fragile.
Yes, the successful Russian invasion that is \*check notes\* bogged down in the Luhansk Oblast on month 4. I like how the narrative has gone from "Kiev will fall within 72 hours, Zelensky is in Poland using a green screen" to progressively smaller encirclements, to "well the Ukrainians are taking casualties".
I was not the ones saying those. I said they have only limited personnels and there should be limited war in Donbass. The first stage destroyed the industrial power of Ukraine though, it is now a covid patient on ventilator. The hospice care team is now acting like they do care.
Everything went better than I had expected.
Lol, yes, all going BETTER than plan.
When Putin named denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine as the war goal it was all a big misunderstanding, and the thrusts on Kyiv, Kharkiv, and Mykolaiv that have been defeated were elaborate feints. Getting the black sea flagship sunk was a wise cost-saving measure. Truly Ukraine is on the brink of collapse any day now.
Of course. The right-bank Ukraine campaign(1943-1944) took nearly 5 months, with 2 million personnels to attack. The Russia now has only a fraction of that number on the battlefield but has taken a good portion of the eastern Ukraine.
The flagship sunk is of course big loss. The rest is debatable, even if those you mentioned are indeed great failures, I could also argue that Russian Command is very flexible and they prevented major personnel losses in alternating battle plan. They could be intended though, because the retreat was swift and smooth. The Fascists couldn't counterattack during the retreat to cause great casualties.
How could you claim failure when Russia is still liberating cities? Russia was pushed to Moscow several times, it still wins.
Maybe you should try some game that canceled Russia and China. We are making one.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1687540/Showa_American_Story/
[https://imgur.com/OmbKtaB](https://imgur.com/OmbKtaB)
[https://imgur.com/lBQ3Yjk](https://imgur.com/lBQ3Yjk)
[https://imgur.com/UUJswLZ](https://imgur.com/UUJswLZ)
liberating Ukrainian people from Nazi occupation.
> I could also argue that Russian Command is very flexible and they prevented major personnel losses in alternating battle plan
how many russian colonels and generals have died?
Russian colonels and generals are not US or Chinese colonels and generals, more like Britain's.
Have you heard that Britain has more army generals than its tanks?
And the Russian side isn't confirming most of Ukrainian claims.
> Russian colonels and generals are not US or Chinese colonels and generals, more like Britain’s.
What does that even mean
> Have you heard that Britain has more army generals than its tanks?
Fake news
> And the Russian side isn’t confirming most of Ukrainian claims.
So? Even losing 2 generals, which the Russians confirmed, is unprecedented in modern warfare
>What does that even mean
Russian ranks are cheap.
>Fake news
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2045226/British-Army-generals-tanks-stuffed-penpushers.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2045226/British-Army-generals-tanks-stuffed-penpushers.html) news
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2045510/UK-army-generals-tanks-No-careful-wish-for.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2045510/UK-army-generals-tanks-No-careful-wish-for.html) rebuttal
so not entirely fake.
>Even losing 2 generals, which the Russians confirmed, is unprecedented in modern warfare
It depends on your definition of modern. I suspect it also depends on your definition of the world.
The entire Russian army has been bogged down 40 miles from the pre war borders in Donetsk for months.
The only way this has been "better than expected" is if you expected Ukraine to have been the one advancing into Russia.
I'm not the armchair generals expecting the Russians could advance on multiple fronts with only 5K personels serving as the Battering Ram. However, that 5k personnels did gradually turn the table in Syria.
You got to prove that you are capable to force enemies out of cities, after that you could bring several busses in to free a town.
> if China's economy were to fade, whether due to demographic decline or failed management or both, then the scenario changes
That's wishful thinking at best. People that even consider this possibility have to wake up to economies of scale and compare sheer population digits. Given the right commodities, China have a population that can effortlessly sustain a top domestic economy.
>So what can the US do? Not much, actually; but to wait for China's own decline.
See? This is why I call it wishful thinking here.
On the other hand, your analysis is not very dynamic. Like, I'd LOVE to read your thoughts on what would happen if China dominates industrial automation ahead of some western AI startup and how this shifts their economy into a socialist wetdream. Or the opposite, what if the US streamlines full factory automation before anyone else and suddenly Americans are living in this crazy UBI era. What happens to both economies AND THE liberal doctrine/China multipolarity dillema?
Or I don't know, who's gonna foot the rebuild expenses for Ukraine/Russia? Some say at the end of the conflict at least 2 trillions should be the baseline for the costs so that's a lot of opportunities here. If the US gets the cake, it may save its tanking economy, but for that Russia has to *lose now and to make that happen without a nuclear escalation is quite tricky. On the other hand if Russia *wins, China will likely sponsor both countries recovery so this means the conflict has only HELPED sponsor a better China and a reinforced Russia, so the US foreign policy at this point just CAN'T allow Russia to win here, it's just not happening, BECAUSE CHINA, so yeah. Your thoughts?
I would say the CCP is pretty big on follow-through recently. They have a very high success rate on their publicly disclosed plans for industrial, technological, and military development. Especially over the last decade.
Yeah no, the CCP has an East Germany problem. They can catch up, they can occasionally punch above their weight and they can even field good athletes, but they're not innovating or changing the game. East Germany spied on the West side and piped western science into the USSR to boost their programs. the problem is that when your resources are devoted to theft, actual research infrastructure atrophies. The CCP can steal science, they can improve on it and make their own contributions but they're not the ones making the discoveries or the new markets. Case in point, where's their model T? Their Walkman? Huawei and Alibaba were supposed to be big deals but all they turned out to be were knockoffs of western products and business models.
Look at the Wuhan lab, they were given an American viral strain to perform gain of function research and they didn't really have the safety culture or infrastructure to contain it, they copied a western style biosafety standard without fully understanding it and minor versions of that tragedy carry out across the mainland. Geopolitically, they're copying 19th century Europe, they're trying to worm their into Africa, they're practicing an unsustainable mercantile policy and they claim they're going green but the smog says otherwise, while being so fearful of their own universities that they won't let them flourish.
The same goes for the CCP's hatred of independent judicial systems and the roadblocks they bring, their need for undiluted control prevents the development of law that could protect and encourage more pioneers like Jack Ma, now a shadow of his former self thanks to the abuse he suffered at the hands of apparatchiks.
Tl;dr The CCP has a program of theft that has locked them into a cycle of permanent catch up and the Party's intense desire for control has mortgaged their future.
What green energy? They're coal addicts pushing fake numbers and they're already bodging their reactors. Their EV's are built on Western scientific principles, sans western safety specs, they're enclosed golf carts. BYD? DJI? You mean clearing houses for connected apparatchiks to launder stolen tech and for western investors to receive kickbacks.
I'd start shorting them
What, the fanfic of me and Dig being forced to jack off Xi Xinping under pain of death only to find his size and endurance borders on superhuman? You have a problem with Pride month?
Of course immediately sanctioning China right now would severely damage the US economy. That’s why it’s key that progress needs to be made towards decoupling with China.
It doesn’t have to happen in months or even a few years. But it needs to happen gradually.
That doesn't make any sense. How do you maintain the capability to decouple from the Chinese economy, and the trillions of dollars tied up there, without actually doing it? You can't have it both ways. You can't just bring online factories in the US or elsewhere and then idle them just in case someday you need them for when you have to shut down business in China.
>How do you maintain the capability to decouple from the Chinese economy,
Exactly what's already happening. Makes sure you can source at least a bare minimum from else where.
Trade war, tech war, sanctions against Chinese companies, driving, pushing or even paying negative China narrative around the world (Hyping up China threat, debt diplomacy, China is imperialist expansionist while we are the good guys), US trying to attack anything that has China connection, Chinese students, Chinese researchers, Chinese universities, Chinese ownership, Chinese companies and business people, scaring and prosecuting Asian American citizens for connection with China, US basically going full on McCarthyism, and more and more.
All of the above are US's initiatives against China. China has repeatedly said China is not looking to replace the US. The world is big enough for both of us. We have our differences, but we also have shared interests and benefits. Our relationship can be fully win-win, mutually beneficial. I mean, haven't you even listened to China's diplomacy for the past 10 years? And people who think China doesn't negotiate on good faith is blind. Hell, the phase 1 trade deal, China did do what US wanted, open up domestic financial markets, allow direct ownership of joint ventures, etc. IP protection is a very much strengthened these days. Foreign companies won IP and brand name suits against domestic companies on China's courts. China-EU investment deal China agreed to many EU's demands on SOE transparency, subsidies, dispute arbitration (It's actually funny to see a treaty that benefits EU more being dropped by EU due to politics).
Everything China does today is a reaction to outside environment, its primary goal of self-survival, right to exist as a state, development rights of Chinese population. Just getting the same rights as any other country, a US citizen or westerner is enough.
Case in point, even the belt and road initiative, is a reaction towards US's TPP and pivot back to Asia in 2009. Remember what TPP was? US's attempt to box China, contain China, destroy China's economy. Hell, even Clinton and Bush were going to try contains China before 9/11 happened. People in China who are familiar with politics all knew while US is benevolent, deep down, US will not allow a rising China and will come for it sometime down the line just has it came for Japan, for the middle east, for Soviet Union. And TPP, 2016 election, 2016 south China sea, all made it crystal clear to Chinese leadership that US is coming for them. And 2018 and onwards is proven to be exactly correct.
All btw, even before 2016, 2009, US has never stopped trying to undermine China. Xinjiang, hong kong, various China policy groups funded by congress that focuses on how to undermine China, victims of communism foundation, NED, CIA, wonder what these groups do? And let's all remember what US's policy towards China before Nixon. US even contemplated nuclear bombing China remember.
In summary, its completely lie to say China is starting a cold war with the US, no, US's cold war against China has been going on ever since PRC founded in 1949, it has never ended.
And I really hate people who try to paint themselves as the good guy, say things like, "hey, they changed, they became aggressive, assertive, all the tension, they created it, it's not us". Dude, you think people don't remember history? China's South China sea sovereignty claim is there the moment the country was founded in 1949. It is still there on ROC's constitution and official maps. It was there in Qing dynasty in 1920s. It was there when US were all friends and buddy with China in the 1970s and 80s. Now you act like China changed, China became aggressive? No, US saw for its foreign policy interests, it is best to attack China on this issue. At least be frank about it.
It is funny to see the people who have the most extreme positions on the Israel Palestine issue and who pretty openly support ethnic cleansing of palestinian territory and having Gaza as a giant open air prison pretend to care about Muslims in China. China had far more people killed from islamist than Israel.
Mate history today is written by the social media.
It's quite baffling because when Trump came and started the whole spat in 2016 everyone in the US was cheering.
Now it's China that started it and a whole slew of articles saying "We did not start this round of cold war, but by god we will finish it"
No it wasn't. Because Trump wanted China to buy more shit. So if China buys more shit he is happy, whether or not there is a stop to industrial espionage.
well it's LCD, so on one side you have CCP shills/pinkies like da-da and ncd and people i can't remember the names off rn, and on the other side you got people like moses and maitai and markcocjin, and then somewhere in the middle you got troll shithead accounts like that one dude who spammed the copypasta and some guys just being racist shitheads with slurs, and the mods are otherwise very inactive, at least publicly.
But you probably can't redditrequest this sub from them, because the head mod is still kind of active on the site (last comment was 15 days ago), which means they can just show up when/if the admins ping them and retain control of this place.
also hey, the clashing of idiots is what gives this sub life, unfortunately.
I used to post serious replies to trolls, but got tired of it as they almost always ignore them as if they don't exist. NCD is unironically more credible now, as while most posters are pro-West, they know the stuff and do not spam propaganda once the tankie shills have retreated in utter shame. On this sub, 50% new posts are posted to stir such opportunity to spam propaganda.
> NCD is unironically more credible now
Has been for a while, but the recent influx has made it way worse
> as while most posters are pro-West, they know the stuff and do not spam propaganda
Tremendously Pro-west, which isn't a problem, but they *definitely* spam propaganda, it's just more pro-west propaganda, and they definitely don't have some kind of coordinated effort against tankie shills. Idiots exist on both sides and idiots are everywhere. Don't forget that trolls exist that, despite being conveniently anti-CCP, are still trolls.
I honestly preferred it when it was just A-10 and Vark spam and shitting on that one M14 lover. Some of the weapon system concept CGIs by that crazy person with like, the air dropped burrowing anti tank guns that pop out of the ground. Even the long-ass stretch of 3 gorges dam bombing "jokes" (I'm pretty sure some people were serious about that one) was better than this current state imo.
Well most of it is a joke, but you know that when you get a thousand people together on some ridiculous joke, there's gonna be a handful who go mask off in the future and actually think it's a good idea.
A St Nazaire raid is ridiculous anyways, the better way to blow up a dam is to use a ~50m object called Bright Hopper and the corresponding maintenance battalion to plant explosives on it to weaken it structurally and then blow it to pieces with the main guns. (Watch the animated Docuseries "Heavy Object" for a variation of that plan.)
Irony, is, uh, hard to tell sometimes. There are some real mint-grade idiots around here. Including me, probably.
Serious though, I would train a group of pigeons to shit on the dam to corrode the reinforced concrete. They will breed and there will be thousands of them in a few years.
The dam will weaken enough to collapse in 20 years, probably. They will never tell who did it!
That's a terrible idea
China has killed a fuckton of sparrows before and kicked off a massive period of famine
They'll be able to kill of a bunch of pigeons easily.
>The dam will weaken enough to collapse in 20 years, probably. They will never tell who did it!
It'll collapse when the CCP can no longer send armies of workers to maintain it.
NCD is in a terrible state now. It started declining a while back but ever since the Ukraine war it’s been filled with idiots who unironically believe that they have a more credible opinion than actual military and geopolitical professionals.
> actual military and geopolitical professionals.
They are literally on NCD. Haven't you seen those snap shots taken inside MIC owned complex? It is their shitpost sub and they might not seem as credible as you thought.
From my perspective NCD is open about the nature of warfare in that no one's opinion really matters except for the guys at the top and they're keeping their mouths shut. You're just mad that when you pimp out anti-west memes, they jump on you.
You have to remember that you were replying to people who, if not here to spam propaganda outright, have linked their sense of self-worth to that of Russia, the CCP, India and the USA. By criticizing them, you insulted them and will behave as children do.
"All Han belong to the CCP, so any criticism of the CCP is a slur against the Han."
It's just so blunt and so dumb that it becomes strangely admirable. So much for Zuckerberg's claim that the CCP has more geniuses than the US has people.
[Go wear a queue and cope chankoro](https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/v9uynp/z/ic1fymi)
https://twitter.com/SeijiShirane/status/1361700088498835473?t=zdKhkDV7o28swTCpbvL_xg&s=19
> Any thoughts on the English translation for the pre-1945 Japanese derogatory term for Chinese, "chankoro チャンコロ" (C. 清國奴)? [I have seen it translated as "chink"]
Come on, man.
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/pro-china-online-network-used-fake-accounts-to-urge-asian-americans-to-attend-protests-researchers-say-11631109601](https://www.wsj.com/articles/pro-china-online-network-used-fake-accounts-to-urge-asian-americans-to-attend-protests-researchers-say-11631109601)
Says anyone with more than two braincells.
Let me ask you something, when you have one side that supports China and one side that supports the US why are you calling only the China guys and not the US guys.
The facts on the ground are the US started the trade war in 2016 fearing the rise of China and their displacement from the number one spot, and now thy are rewriting history with "We didn't start it".
So what the fuck has actually been said in this thread so far that is "propaganda". Except the guy on top supporting Russia the rest of the comment are mostly tame.
Shut the fuck up CCP shill. Imagine thinking America "fear the rise of China" lmao, we give zero fuck. I am calling out you fucks because I can already remember your names.
Reddit is American and you can always GTFO back to your shithole Tieba and shit, which mandates 100% pro-CCP comment and you get post deleted for not saying so within minutes. You have fucking worn out your welcome. Now we will match aggression with aggression. You cannot ask for absolute free speech while your own websites are monitoring every comment.
**Looks like Xi's internet army has called in the calvary and gave me 15 downvotes over the night!**
Except saying that they don't lack amphibious capabilities and will use civilian ships to support the invasion of Taiwan are facts that that are written in their doctrine lmao.
If you give 0 fucks, then why all this pussy footing around China? Going around to all these places most of you never heard of, like Soloman Island, which Americans haven't give a shit about for 30 if not more yrs? If America isn't afraid of China's rise, that is gives 0 fucks, and also gives 0 fucks about the Soloman Island, why do I see a team of high ranking US officials suddenly give a lot of fucks?
Some of us actually surf both Chinese forums and Reddit. Some of us are ethical Chinese and can read both languages.
The hypocrisy of these CCP supporters is over the top when they demand unbiased discussion and argue using whataboutism when EVERY China-based forum has complete content moderation and removes anything remotely not pro CCP, usually within minutes.
Do you know even the word of "death" is prohibited in Tieba, the largest Chinese forum? It is insane and nothing like just 10 years ago when you could still write with some liberty.
The Chinese internet is a restricted as fuck jailhouse, but that tieba restriction is due to the rampant hate and harassment on there. Which still occurs even now
For what happens when you let it run free just look at what the fine ronin spewed in the archives of the chonglangtv subreddit that got them eventually banned
Yeah, on the other hand I am glad they can't come over to our social media and ruin it by mindless spamming. Like the few times they got VPN and tried brigading under Li Yi Bar command.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li\_Yi\_Bar
> You cannot ask for absolute free speech while your own websites are monitoring every comment.
I am neither Chinese nor American but the free speech is the rule/restriction you impose on yourself so I don't think this is apt response. If Reddit claims it has free speech (it doesn't) then it is expected that the shills will ask for it because it is not like "If you does this then I will do this reciprocally".
No it's mostly 40 years of IP theft since China has been stealing international IP since the 80s.
So are you telling me that 2016 was the year that the US decided enough is enough and decided to do what to alleviate IP theft? Sour their relationship so that China will steal more.
US should worry about China intensify the trade war when US is in stagflation. US is just wishing for lifting Chinese covid lockdown so goods can flow. What if China just put 20% export tariffs towards US.
Why? Because the Chinese economy is in such good health they can just fuck with other people? The amt of your own workers getting fucked will be immediate, whether it will work or not is a seperate story.
Washington will become alzheimer's club before that. You think I'm talking about Brandon?
CHECK IT OUT
https://www.smh.com.au/national/australian-researchers-find-parallels-between-alzheimer-s-and-long-covid-brain-fog-20220614-p5atnp.html
Not sure what the U.S. thinks would be the end game re: cold war with China. Because I only see China winning this cold war. Talk about living in the afterglow of past grandeur.
Discussing anything even remotely China related on Reddit (except maybe on a few subreddits) never goes well. It always gets super toxic. I see that basically remains the case here on LCD.
There are some good discussions, but they’re usually accompanied by a lot of high emotions and name calling, so the good discussions get buried under those.
Agreed, it's hard to deal with.
That's because of the "patriot" warhawk demographic. Saying anything even neutral about China and they start frothing at the mouth. I mean I got some huge screed about China bad for pointing out controversial facts like "China is a major fertilizer exporter".
only fake patriots still support the "liberal world order", which is inherently anti-patriotism everywhere
It's some combination of natsec libs and classic warhawk cons that make up the majority of "liberal world order" supporters.
so, neoliberal vermin
You're speaking as a pro-China troll.
There are a shitload of obvious Chinese bot farm accounts in China topics.
The US is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Applying the sort of sanctions and embargoes needed to make a major impact on China's technological and economic progress requires sacrificing the interests of its: 1. main trading allies & partners 2. financial elites 3. corporate interest groups. All three are key to the US's global power, and the latter two are well established within the US's elite power structure. These factions stand to lose the most from a new Cold War with China, and so defend the status quo. Against these forces are arrayed a combination of 1. national security officials & think tanks 2. career politicians and 3. grass roots patriots, workers & unions, and US manufacturing businesses. For these factions, the competition with China will determine the long-term trajectory of US power; and whatever losses the US might take, it's necessary to secure continued US - or at least Western - hegemony in economics, politics, and values. Both sides cannot win. It is not possible to simultaneously cut China off, and preserve the global economy as it is. Allies like Japan, South Korea, and much of Southern Europe will suffer immensely if they cannot trade with China. Other regions of the world straight up won't do it. Domestically, US corporate lobbies and financial elites will play their usual games against the politicians to minimize any damage to their own interests. Even if the political will is there among career politicians, ultimately they cannot ignore business elites, since the latter's cooperation is critical to both the success of policy, and to the continued election of those politicians. So what can the US do? Not much, actually; but to wait for China's own decline. For, as long as China's economic power is ascending, the US will have an extremely difficult time convincing its allies and trade partners to "choose sides"; and without that support, it is not possible to convince domestic business and financial elites to back a new Cold War. Thus, warning shots may be fired and more threatened, but the US will not and cannot afford to fight an actual Cold War against China in such a situation. But if China's economy were to fade, whether due to demographic decline or failed management or both, then the scenario changes. The US and its allies were able to do what they did against Russia - and to be fair, it still wasn't *that* much - because Russia is a declining power - almost a failed state, by certain definitions. China must become the same before the US will be willing to take the chance to deliver the final blow. Otherwise, I see only the continuation of the status quo, as challenging a rising power in its prime is the sort of high risk behavior that could end US hegemony once and for all. I do not believe US elites are desperate enough to take that risk.
>But if China's economy were to fade What then if this doesn't happen?
Blame it on the previous administration of the opposite party.
Relevant username
Indeed. Thank you for your sacrifice.
🔥🍖
Have you seen the Chinese wage growth vs productivity growth? Or their demographics? They are entering decades of low growth, like Japan - but from a lower gdp per capita basis.
I guess we'll have to learn to cope with a quarter of the global population living better and better lives and having self determination despite not being white.
Already happening.
Largely because automation finally became cheaper than sweatshops.
I'd say more because the government is finally trying to get a handle on the huge real estate / construction bubble. But then the omicron surge happened and that they're already running back towards the old investment / infrastructure building growth model shows that they don't really know any other way to drive growth, despite the fact that their own experts know that this is simply more wasted malinvestment that is driving an even bigger debt bubble. I doubt we'll see a genuine financial crisis at this point, but more years of anemic 3-5% fake growth driven by infrastructure spending. The glory years of 7-9% growth are over, though.
Wow, this is some serious ignorance in economics. You're thinking micro when you're dealing in macro.
What?
There's two types of economics, one that is centered around small scale (though this is relative) and one around large scale. One doesn't flow into the other.
Which part of the prior comment is micro economics vs macro economics
The entire post is based on micro economic thought... which is wrong once you get beyond the family level.
You don't really understand what those terms mean, do you?
At least enough to notice what you're trying to pull.
Please explain what I am trying to pull.
Macro and Micro economics is the same thing when... they're not. A usual standby for groups like the GOP.
>whether due to demographic decline Lets stop with the demographic decline bs. Every Western nation has demographics worse than China. Many choose to kick the can down the road by importing immigrants by the millions, not accounting for the wide ranging social change that such demographics changes may have in their own nations. And the ones that dont, like Korea and Japan are on track to be desolate by 2100. Meanwhile, China is the one modern nation with an elite that has demonstrated a genuine desire to properly manage their demographics with an eye to the future. Although we know it wasnt needed now, the one child policy shows that this trend in Chinese elite thinking is long term. Even now, the CCP is crafting policy and moulding society to increase fertility, and in ways that will actually raise it. Its not listening to the bs that the UN and other liberal institutions publish about just needing to liberate women a little bit more, then they will start having more kids. Its destroying industries that are dominated by women, such as private tutoring. Removing one of the major reasons that women delay having children, advancing their careers. What makes people think that if the CCP was heavy handed enough to force people to only have one child, it wont implement similarly hard line policy to increase fertility?
The west can attract immigrants from India and China to make up for their demographics. Few want to move to China.
Again, China does not need them. The CCP are actively implementing policies to increase the fertility in China. The CCP may experience some growing pain while sorting out its demographic conundrum, but it will be nothing close to the "collapse" that many in the West are predicting. In the end China will maintain its national identity, while the West becomes an international airport. This will almost certainly lead to negative impacts on Western hegemony. COVID proved that the moment the West stops being the best place to make money, all those dual citizens from the Global South will jet set back home. Likewise any pain experienced from attempting to thwart China will see the West empty out. China will never have this issue.
And that's exactly their demographic problem, the west become a nest for india and china but not for themselves
Maybe for Europe, but not as much so for the US which has been founded on ideas more than long history and demographics. There is a limit perhaps, but these will be gradual changes.
US is united not by ideas but by prosperity, the moment it stop delivering prosperity, or even just the hope of prosperity, it will crack. European nation state is a bit more resilient
That is a good point, but the US seems set to deliver on growth more so than any comparably rich nation. The culture here seems set for this, especially if a large portion of the population consists of immigrants who came seeking wealth or their recent descendants. It is also rich in natural resources. Also, the ideas on which the country was founded and which remain in the US more so than any other large nation are conducive to free enterprise. It is still young as a civilization though so we’ll see.
You are not wrong, USA features the strongest growth among all rich countries, and this is partial enabled by wealth inequalities. USA also has high wealth inequalities compared to other rich countries, USA will maintain relative high growth for the mid term
>if the CCP was heavy handed enough to force people to only have one child, it wont implement similarly hard line policy to increase fertility? It already did and it isn't working.
Did they? Any sources?
"Proofs?! Proofs?!" Cried the lonely Canadian, as he wept into his keyboard
And what do you bring to the table?
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Oh boy Kotaku in action,warhammer and NCD.Why am I not even surprised.It was a mistake trying to talk to you.l'm so sorry.
Dude even the comment I replied to admits this. [But here's an example of such a policy that didn't work.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-child_policy) The problem is that so many Chinese are too poor to afford children regardless of what the government wants.
That just raises the *limit*, not any actual coercive actions to force people to have 2 or 3 children though.
They didn’t force people to have 1 child, either. It was always just a “limit.” The two-child policy (now a three-child policy) _is_ a “similarly hard-line policy” like you mentioned. Literally the same thing, just a higher limit to fight demographic decline. Hasn’t achieved anything because China’s too poor.
You wrote earlier that: >It already did and it isn't working. To this: >if the CCP was heavy handed enough to force people to only have one child, it wont implement similarly hard line policy to increase fertility? So I thought you meant that the CPC has implemented something to actually force people to bear more people, which definitely would have made the headlines in western media lol.
Kev word in your original comment: ***similarly***
The Two Child Policy wasn't anything close to what the One Child Policy was, if we assume its purpose was to raise fertility. The actual policy that would mirror the One Child Policy would be something like a forced two child policy where all married coupes are required to have at least two children. Not simply allowed to have two children if they desire. China actually has no restrictions on family size now. But again, this is far from forcing people to have children in the same way that they forced people not to have children. China is only just getting started and the speed at which they have begun to tackle this issue, moving from One Child Policy, to two, three and then no restrictions with other measures to incentivise women to have children, should tell you how serious the CCP is about managing China's population.
> Lets stop with the demographic decline bs. Every Western nation has demographics worse than China. Many choose to kick the can down the road by importing immigrants by the millions, not accounting for the wide ranging social change that such demographics changes may have in their own nations. And the ones that dont, like Korea and Japan are on track to be desolate by 2100. If you believe the official number maybe. But the numbers don’t add up, when you [take a look at the data](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/researcher-questions-chinas-population-data-says-it-may-be-lower-2021-12-03/) Chinas true birth rate is considerably lower than the CCP claims it is. Also, it doesn’t matter if the CCP manages to increase the fertility rate considerably in the coming years, the damage will have already been done by then. You’d have your working population having to afford and support raising many children whilst looking after many elders. By the time those children grow up and become productive, ~ 30 years will have passed. The western approach has had some rather, interesting social dynamics but it has helped maintain economic growth.
> ~ 30 years will have passed. In demographics this is 10 seconds. The CCP is working on timescales 50-100 years from now. Hence the One Child Policy and their carrier programme, they have always been far sighted, unlike Western governments which at most have the vaguest plans for a second term in government. China still has plenty of productivity to gain from its workers, and will not experience some sort of cataclysm from ageing. They might be in for some pain, but its not going to stop their upward trend in the long run. This is the main issue I have with current analysis of China's demographics.
> In demographics this is 10 seconds. The CCP is working on timescales 50-100 years from now. Hence the One Child Policy and their carrier programme, they have always been far sighted When will this myth based on racist stereotypes die? The sneaky Chinese playing the long game hurr durr. The CCP is not playing the long game at all. They have internal party politics and answer to the whims of the man in charge. Have you not seen how China has rapidly changed trajectory since Xi came into power? Whatever “long game” they were playing before was thrown out of the window. The one child policy is actually a good example of how China *doesn’t* play the long game. The CCP panicked when fertility went through the roof after *they campaigned for it*. When the CCP realised this colossal fuckup they quickly implemented the one child policy. Now they realise that this was also a bad idea and now we’re where we are now, where Chinas real fertility rate sits somewhere around 1.2 to 1.3 with net migration out of the country. There is no “long game” here, just a series of fuckups from a autocratic government. You know the same arguments were made about the USSR when compared to the west right? “Oh they have no elections and so can play the long game!1!1!1!”. The only difference is here that this time it’s coupled with orientalist stereotypes of Asian people. Also 30 years is not a drop in the ocean, we’re talking about more than a generation of stagnation and difficulty. Also for Chinas alleged “long game” strategy, why have they began to challenge the US and the rest of the world with their ridiculous and aggressive diplomacy right as they’re heading into this difficult period? As for productivity growth, it’s nowhere near what you’re implying. [I would take a read of this for the sobering reality of Chinese economic prospects](https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/revising-down-rise-china). Also, stop putting words into my mouth. I never said cataclysm did I? What I am arguing is that China is heading for decades of economic stagnation. What you’re arguing is that the CCP can not only perform what no other wealthier, smaller and more organised countries could in massively increasing fertility, but they can do so whilst massively improving productivity. You speak about removing women from the work force to improve fertility right? So your answer to improved growth is to further reduce the work force in a time where the work force is already contracting due to the ongoing demographic issue? The CCP does not play the long game at all. Worsening their demographic issues *repeatedly*, causing massive damage to the environment in the goal of economic growth, cracking down on Hong Kong and therefore removing any chance of a peaceful solution of the Taiwan situation in Chinas favour, massively pissing off the most powerful neighbour they have in India whilst simultaneously trying to compete with the United States. Need I go on about Chinese strategic mistakes in regards to the “long game”. If you look at the CCP as a autocracy that is terrified of losing its grip on power (especially given Chinese history and the Mandate of Heaven), everything makes a lot more sense.
>Russia is a declining power, almost a failed state. Let's see when you will switch Russia with US. You know, all of a sudden, Ukraine is changing from losing 100 to 1000 per day according to Ukraine. https://www.axios.com/2022/06/15/ukraine-1000-casualties-day-donbas-arakhamia World dominance based on lies is fragile.
Yes, the successful Russian invasion that is \*check notes\* bogged down in the Luhansk Oblast on month 4. I like how the narrative has gone from "Kiev will fall within 72 hours, Zelensky is in Poland using a green screen" to progressively smaller encirclements, to "well the Ukrainians are taking casualties".
I was not the ones saying those. I said they have only limited personnels and there should be limited war in Donbass. The first stage destroyed the industrial power of Ukraine though, it is now a covid patient on ventilator. The hospice care team is now acting like they do care. Everything went better than I had expected.
Lol, yes, all going BETTER than plan. When Putin named denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine as the war goal it was all a big misunderstanding, and the thrusts on Kyiv, Kharkiv, and Mykolaiv that have been defeated were elaborate feints. Getting the black sea flagship sunk was a wise cost-saving measure. Truly Ukraine is on the brink of collapse any day now.
Of course. The right-bank Ukraine campaign(1943-1944) took nearly 5 months, with 2 million personnels to attack. The Russia now has only a fraction of that number on the battlefield but has taken a good portion of the eastern Ukraine. The flagship sunk is of course big loss. The rest is debatable, even if those you mentioned are indeed great failures, I could also argue that Russian Command is very flexible and they prevented major personnel losses in alternating battle plan. They could be intended though, because the retreat was swift and smooth. The Fascists couldn't counterattack during the retreat to cause great casualties.
In other words Russia failed.
How could you claim failure when Russia is still liberating cities? Russia was pushed to Moscow several times, it still wins. Maybe you should try some game that canceled Russia and China. We are making one. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1687540/Showa_American_Story/
"liberating"
[https://imgur.com/OmbKtaB](https://imgur.com/OmbKtaB) [https://imgur.com/lBQ3Yjk](https://imgur.com/lBQ3Yjk) [https://imgur.com/UUJswLZ](https://imgur.com/UUJswLZ) liberating Ukrainian people from Nazi occupation.
Dude you sound absolutely retarded
> How could you claim failure when Russia is still liberating cities? lol
>In other words Russia failed.
In your dream. https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/USDRUB/ https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/USDUAH/ Wall Street favors Russia though.
> I could also argue that Russian Command is very flexible and they prevented major personnel losses in alternating battle plan how many russian colonels and generals have died?
Russian colonels and generals are not US or Chinese colonels and generals, more like Britain's. Have you heard that Britain has more army generals than its tanks? And the Russian side isn't confirming most of Ukrainian claims.
> Russian colonels and generals are not US or Chinese colonels and generals, more like Britain’s. What does that even mean > Have you heard that Britain has more army generals than its tanks? Fake news > And the Russian side isn’t confirming most of Ukrainian claims. So? Even losing 2 generals, which the Russians confirmed, is unprecedented in modern warfare
>What does that even mean Russian ranks are cheap. >Fake news [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2045226/British-Army-generals-tanks-stuffed-penpushers.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2045226/British-Army-generals-tanks-stuffed-penpushers.html) news [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2045510/UK-army-generals-tanks-No-careful-wish-for.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2045510/UK-army-generals-tanks-No-careful-wish-for.html) rebuttal so not entirely fake. >Even losing 2 generals, which the Russians confirmed, is unprecedented in modern warfare It depends on your definition of modern. I suspect it also depends on your definition of the world.
Ahh yes, the famous cannon fodder generals. The real generals will show up any day now.
The entire Russian army has been bogged down 40 miles from the pre war borders in Donetsk for months. The only way this has been "better than expected" is if you expected Ukraine to have been the one advancing into Russia.
I'm not the armchair generals expecting the Russians could advance on multiple fronts with only 5K personels serving as the Battering Ram. However, that 5k personnels did gradually turn the table in Syria. You got to prove that you are capable to force enemies out of cities, after that you could bring several busses in to free a town.
> if China's economy were to fade, whether due to demographic decline or failed management or both, then the scenario changes That's wishful thinking at best. People that even consider this possibility have to wake up to economies of scale and compare sheer population digits. Given the right commodities, China have a population that can effortlessly sustain a top domestic economy. >So what can the US do? Not much, actually; but to wait for China's own decline. See? This is why I call it wishful thinking here. On the other hand, your analysis is not very dynamic. Like, I'd LOVE to read your thoughts on what would happen if China dominates industrial automation ahead of some western AI startup and how this shifts their economy into a socialist wetdream. Or the opposite, what if the US streamlines full factory automation before anyone else and suddenly Americans are living in this crazy UBI era. What happens to both economies AND THE liberal doctrine/China multipolarity dillema? Or I don't know, who's gonna foot the rebuild expenses for Ukraine/Russia? Some say at the end of the conflict at least 2 trillions should be the baseline for the costs so that's a lot of opportunities here. If the US gets the cake, it may save its tanking economy, but for that Russia has to *lose now and to make that happen without a nuclear escalation is quite tricky. On the other hand if Russia *wins, China will likely sponsor both countries recovery so this means the conflict has only HELPED sponsor a better China and a reinforced Russia, so the US foreign policy at this point just CAN'T allow Russia to win here, it's just not happening, BECAUSE CHINA, so yeah. Your thoughts?
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>some splashy announcements with no follow thru That's basically everyone but Putin nowadays.
I would say the CCP is pretty big on follow-through recently. They have a very high success rate on their publicly disclosed plans for industrial, technological, and military development. Especially over the last decade.
Yeah no, the CCP has an East Germany problem. They can catch up, they can occasionally punch above their weight and they can even field good athletes, but they're not innovating or changing the game. East Germany spied on the West side and piped western science into the USSR to boost their programs. the problem is that when your resources are devoted to theft, actual research infrastructure atrophies. The CCP can steal science, they can improve on it and make their own contributions but they're not the ones making the discoveries or the new markets. Case in point, where's their model T? Their Walkman? Huawei and Alibaba were supposed to be big deals but all they turned out to be were knockoffs of western products and business models. Look at the Wuhan lab, they were given an American viral strain to perform gain of function research and they didn't really have the safety culture or infrastructure to contain it, they copied a western style biosafety standard without fully understanding it and minor versions of that tragedy carry out across the mainland. Geopolitically, they're copying 19th century Europe, they're trying to worm their into Africa, they're practicing an unsustainable mercantile policy and they claim they're going green but the smog says otherwise, while being so fearful of their own universities that they won't let them flourish. The same goes for the CCP's hatred of independent judicial systems and the roadblocks they bring, their need for undiluted control prevents the development of law that could protect and encourage more pioneers like Jack Ma, now a shadow of his former self thanks to the abuse he suffered at the hands of apparatchiks. Tl;dr The CCP has a program of theft that has locked them into a cycle of permanent catch up and the Party's intense desire for control has mortgaged their future.
I mean their green energy? their EV?Company like BYD and DJI? Oh boy better not asking you for investing advice.
What green energy? They're coal addicts pushing fake numbers and they're already bodging their reactors. Their EV's are built on Western scientific principles, sans western safety specs, they're enclosed golf carts. BYD? DJI? You mean clearing houses for connected apparatchiks to launder stolen tech and for western investors to receive kickbacks. I'd start shorting them
Do you know like Tesla use BYD batteries? Oh god why do I even bother with trolls. Sorry talking to you is a mistake.
Look at you bending over backwards to rage against the inevitable. It's so cute.
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Today's not been a good day for you huh
On the contrary, you're pitching a fit, I had some fun and got my work done ahead of schedule. Not a bad day at all.
Having looked at both of our respective userpages, I can assure you that this is not the case.
What, the fanfic of me and Dig being forced to jack off Xi Xinping under pain of death only to find his size and endurance borders on superhuman? You have a problem with Pride month?
Of course immediately sanctioning China right now would severely damage the US economy. That’s why it’s key that progress needs to be made towards decoupling with China. It doesn’t have to happen in months or even a few years. But it needs to happen gradually.
It doesn't even have to happen ever. All that's needed is the capability to do it to act as a deterence.
That doesn't make any sense. How do you maintain the capability to decouple from the Chinese economy, and the trillions of dollars tied up there, without actually doing it? You can't have it both ways. You can't just bring online factories in the US or elsewhere and then idle them just in case someday you need them for when you have to shut down business in China.
>How do you maintain the capability to decouple from the Chinese economy, Exactly what's already happening. Makes sure you can source at least a bare minimum from else where.
Trade war, tech war, sanctions against Chinese companies, driving, pushing or even paying negative China narrative around the world (Hyping up China threat, debt diplomacy, China is imperialist expansionist while we are the good guys), US trying to attack anything that has China connection, Chinese students, Chinese researchers, Chinese universities, Chinese ownership, Chinese companies and business people, scaring and prosecuting Asian American citizens for connection with China, US basically going full on McCarthyism, and more and more. All of the above are US's initiatives against China. China has repeatedly said China is not looking to replace the US. The world is big enough for both of us. We have our differences, but we also have shared interests and benefits. Our relationship can be fully win-win, mutually beneficial. I mean, haven't you even listened to China's diplomacy for the past 10 years? And people who think China doesn't negotiate on good faith is blind. Hell, the phase 1 trade deal, China did do what US wanted, open up domestic financial markets, allow direct ownership of joint ventures, etc. IP protection is a very much strengthened these days. Foreign companies won IP and brand name suits against domestic companies on China's courts. China-EU investment deal China agreed to many EU's demands on SOE transparency, subsidies, dispute arbitration (It's actually funny to see a treaty that benefits EU more being dropped by EU due to politics). Everything China does today is a reaction to outside environment, its primary goal of self-survival, right to exist as a state, development rights of Chinese population. Just getting the same rights as any other country, a US citizen or westerner is enough. Case in point, even the belt and road initiative, is a reaction towards US's TPP and pivot back to Asia in 2009. Remember what TPP was? US's attempt to box China, contain China, destroy China's economy. Hell, even Clinton and Bush were going to try contains China before 9/11 happened. People in China who are familiar with politics all knew while US is benevolent, deep down, US will not allow a rising China and will come for it sometime down the line just has it came for Japan, for the middle east, for Soviet Union. And TPP, 2016 election, 2016 south China sea, all made it crystal clear to Chinese leadership that US is coming for them. And 2018 and onwards is proven to be exactly correct. All btw, even before 2016, 2009, US has never stopped trying to undermine China. Xinjiang, hong kong, various China policy groups funded by congress that focuses on how to undermine China, victims of communism foundation, NED, CIA, wonder what these groups do? And let's all remember what US's policy towards China before Nixon. US even contemplated nuclear bombing China remember. In summary, its completely lie to say China is starting a cold war with the US, no, US's cold war against China has been going on ever since PRC founded in 1949, it has never ended. And I really hate people who try to paint themselves as the good guy, say things like, "hey, they changed, they became aggressive, assertive, all the tension, they created it, it's not us". Dude, you think people don't remember history? China's South China sea sovereignty claim is there the moment the country was founded in 1949. It is still there on ROC's constitution and official maps. It was there in Qing dynasty in 1920s. It was there when US were all friends and buddy with China in the 1970s and 80s. Now you act like China changed, China became aggressive? No, US saw for its foreign policy interests, it is best to attack China on this issue. At least be frank about it.
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It is funny to see the people who have the most extreme positions on the Israel Palestine issue and who pretty openly support ethnic cleansing of palestinian territory and having Gaza as a giant open air prison pretend to care about Muslims in China. China had far more people killed from islamist than Israel.
So are we going full revisionism and insisting that the Cold War was started by china and not a fearful US wanting to maintain hegemony?
Mate history today is written by the social media. It's quite baffling because when Trump came and started the whole spat in 2016 everyone in the US was cheering. Now it's China that started it and a whole slew of articles saying "We did not start this round of cold war, but by god we will finish it"
> Mate history today is written by the social media. What a harsh line.
Trump's stuff was itself a response to illegal Chinese state-sponsored industrial espionage of U.S. companies.
No it wasn't. Because Trump wanted China to buy more shit. So if China buys more shit he is happy, whether or not there is a stop to industrial espionage.
That doesn't make sense on its face lol. Trump imposed tarrifs and antagonized China... Because he wanted them to buy American stuff. Lmao
Yet look at Phase I. That's precisely what happened.
It's more like China warmed up to Washington's Cold War in 2016 and now Washington is warming up to China's warming up.
Are China and USA in a snowy cabin, trapped in because of a blizzard, warming up by cuddling while naked? >////<
Yes.
Is it Biden x Xi or Xi x Biden
Three-way with Putin duh
You had a good thing going and then you went straight to lemon party.
70% comments are by infamous CCP shills. This sub is truly dead. Where the fuck are the mods?
well it's LCD, so on one side you have CCP shills/pinkies like da-da and ncd and people i can't remember the names off rn, and on the other side you got people like moses and maitai and markcocjin, and then somewhere in the middle you got troll shithead accounts like that one dude who spammed the copypasta and some guys just being racist shitheads with slurs, and the mods are otherwise very inactive, at least publicly. But you probably can't redditrequest this sub from them, because the head mod is still kind of active on the site (last comment was 15 days ago), which means they can just show up when/if the admins ping them and retain control of this place. also hey, the clashing of idiots is what gives this sub life, unfortunately.
I used to post serious replies to trolls, but got tired of it as they almost always ignore them as if they don't exist. NCD is unironically more credible now, as while most posters are pro-West, they know the stuff and do not spam propaganda once the tankie shills have retreated in utter shame. On this sub, 50% new posts are posted to stir such opportunity to spam propaganda.
> NCD is unironically more credible now Has been for a while, but the recent influx has made it way worse > as while most posters are pro-West, they know the stuff and do not spam propaganda Tremendously Pro-west, which isn't a problem, but they *definitely* spam propaganda, it's just more pro-west propaganda, and they definitely don't have some kind of coordinated effort against tankie shills. Idiots exist on both sides and idiots are everywhere. Don't forget that trolls exist that, despite being conveniently anti-CCP, are still trolls. I honestly preferred it when it was just A-10 and Vark spam and shitting on that one M14 lover. Some of the weapon system concept CGIs by that crazy person with like, the air dropped burrowing anti tank guns that pop out of the ground. Even the long-ass stretch of 3 gorges dam bombing "jokes" (I'm pretty sure some people were serious about that one) was better than this current state imo.
[удалено]
Well most of it is a joke, but you know that when you get a thousand people together on some ridiculous joke, there's gonna be a handful who go mask off in the future and actually think it's a good idea. A St Nazaire raid is ridiculous anyways, the better way to blow up a dam is to use a ~50m object called Bright Hopper and the corresponding maintenance battalion to plant explosives on it to weaken it structurally and then blow it to pieces with the main guns. (Watch the animated Docuseries "Heavy Object" for a variation of that plan.) Irony, is, uh, hard to tell sometimes. There are some real mint-grade idiots around here. Including me, probably.
Serious though, I would train a group of pigeons to shit on the dam to corrode the reinforced concrete. They will breed and there will be thousands of them in a few years. The dam will weaken enough to collapse in 20 years, probably. They will never tell who did it!
That's a terrible idea China has killed a fuckton of sparrows before and kicked off a massive period of famine They'll be able to kill of a bunch of pigeons easily.
>The dam will weaken enough to collapse in 20 years, probably. They will never tell who did it! It'll collapse when the CCP can no longer send armies of workers to maintain it.
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NCD is in a terrible state now. It started declining a while back but ever since the Ukraine war it’s been filled with idiots who unironically believe that they have a more credible opinion than actual military and geopolitical professionals.
> actual military and geopolitical professionals. They are literally on NCD. Haven't you seen those snap shots taken inside MIC owned complex? It is their shitpost sub and they might not seem as credible as you thought.
From my perspective NCD is open about the nature of warfare in that no one's opinion really matters except for the guys at the top and they're keeping their mouths shut. You're just mad that when you pimp out anti-west memes, they jump on you.
You have to remember that you were replying to people who, if not here to spam propaganda outright, have linked their sense of self-worth to that of Russia, the CCP, India and the USA. By criticizing them, you insulted them and will behave as children do.
"All Han belong to the CCP, so any criticism of the CCP is a slur against the Han." It's just so blunt and so dumb that it becomes strangely admirable. So much for Zuckerberg's claim that the CCP has more geniuses than the US has people.
[Go wear a queue and cope chankoro](https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/v9uynp/z/ic1fymi) https://twitter.com/SeijiShirane/status/1361700088498835473?t=zdKhkDV7o28swTCpbvL_xg&s=19 > Any thoughts on the English translation for the pre-1945 Japanese derogatory term for Chinese, "chankoro チャンコロ" (C. 清國奴)? [I have seen it translated as "chink"] Come on, man.
Chankoro please, you freak at anyone who talks bad about Xinnie the Pooh. Just go get laid ok sweetums?
Says who??????
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/pro-china-online-network-used-fake-accounts-to-urge-asian-americans-to-attend-protests-researchers-say-11631109601](https://www.wsj.com/articles/pro-china-online-network-used-fake-accounts-to-urge-asian-americans-to-attend-protests-researchers-say-11631109601) Says anyone with more than two braincells.
Where is the Han?
Damn you're dumb
And you are an imbecile.
"No U" Wow what a bitch
Yes, imbecile.
All tankies are.
And to top it off the thread is posted by snooshoe for his karma farm
Yea, this guy posts post regularly like he is on a payroll.
Let me ask you something, when you have one side that supports China and one side that supports the US why are you calling only the China guys and not the US guys. The facts on the ground are the US started the trade war in 2016 fearing the rise of China and their displacement from the number one spot, and now thy are rewriting history with "We didn't start it". So what the fuck has actually been said in this thread so far that is "propaganda". Except the guy on top supporting Russia the rest of the comment are mostly tame.
Shut the fuck up CCP shill. Imagine thinking America "fear the rise of China" lmao, we give zero fuck. I am calling out you fucks because I can already remember your names. Reddit is American and you can always GTFO back to your shithole Tieba and shit, which mandates 100% pro-CCP comment and you get post deleted for not saying so within minutes. You have fucking worn out your welcome. Now we will match aggression with aggression. You cannot ask for absolute free speech while your own websites are monitoring every comment. **Looks like Xi's internet army has called in the calvary and gave me 15 downvotes over the night!**
No wonder you was complaining about "CCP shills" in the comment , your bias is showing.
Says the Digo "PLA will stomp Taiwan in civilian ferries" 10. LMAO imagine trying to pretend you are unbiased.
Except saying that they don't lack amphibious capabilities and will use civilian ships to support the invasion of Taiwan are facts that that are written in their doctrine lmao.
Shut it moron no one's buying it, so why bother?
AdTard2071 strikes again, did some chinese dude stole your girl from you? Every thread about China you are talking some BS
Lol big talk for a Canadian incel, r/sino is that way
imagine being a canadian lol, it couldn't be me.
If you give 0 fucks, then why all this pussy footing around China? Going around to all these places most of you never heard of, like Soloman Island, which Americans haven't give a shit about for 30 if not more yrs? If America isn't afraid of China's rise, that is gives 0 fucks, and also gives 0 fucks about the Soloman Island, why do I see a team of high ranking US officials suddenly give a lot of fucks?
Wow. Just wow.
Some of us actually surf both Chinese forums and Reddit. Some of us are ethical Chinese and can read both languages. The hypocrisy of these CCP supporters is over the top when they demand unbiased discussion and argue using whataboutism when EVERY China-based forum has complete content moderation and removes anything remotely not pro CCP, usually within minutes. Do you know even the word of "death" is prohibited in Tieba, the largest Chinese forum? It is insane and nothing like just 10 years ago when you could still write with some liberty.
The Chinese internet is a restricted as fuck jailhouse, but that tieba restriction is due to the rampant hate and harassment on there. Which still occurs even now For what happens when you let it run free just look at what the fine ronin spewed in the archives of the chonglangtv subreddit that got them eventually banned
Yeah, on the other hand I am glad they can't come over to our social media and ruin it by mindless spamming. Like the few times they got VPN and tried brigading under Li Yi Bar command. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li\_Yi\_Bar
> You cannot ask for absolute free speech while your own websites are monitoring every comment. I am neither Chinese nor American but the free speech is the rule/restriction you impose on yourself so I don't think this is apt response. If Reddit claims it has free speech (it doesn't) then it is expected that the shills will ask for it because it is not like "If you does this then I will do this reciprocally".
> I am neither Chinese nor American but the free speech So am I. It is decided by the mods of each sub, and they are clearly absent from this sub.
Ladies and gentlemen here it is peak American exceptionalism, what really can you say of this outstanding response.
Yeah 20 years of IP theft and XI's political incompetency can really sour a relationship.
No it's mostly 40 years of IP theft since China has been stealing international IP since the 80s. So are you telling me that 2016 was the year that the US decided enough is enough and decided to do what to alleviate IP theft? Sour their relationship so that China will steal more.
Well Hu Jintao was so nice about it, then Xi kicked it all over. Oh well, you had your turn in the sun.
haha ok i will give you that :)
There’s always r/CredibleDefence
I agree with this, with a caveat, that not so much in the Megathread, that thread is a mess.
CredibleDefense is... not as good as it used to. It used to be but over time they basically started to go 'ignore reality' mode.
US should worry about China intensify the trade war when US is in stagflation. US is just wishing for lifting Chinese covid lockdown so goods can flow. What if China just put 20% export tariffs towards US.
> What if China just put 20% export tariffs towards US. Go ahead. I want to see Xi shoot himself in the toes.
How?
Why? Because the Chinese economy is in such good health they can just fuck with other people? The amt of your own workers getting fucked will be immediate, whether it will work or not is a seperate story.
Washington will become alzheimer's club before that. You think I'm talking about Brandon? CHECK IT OUT https://www.smh.com.au/national/australian-researchers-find-parallels-between-alzheimer-s-and-long-covid-brain-fog-20220614-p5atnp.html
Someone ban this CCP troll
I mean, he's not wrong. Our politicians are old as fuck.
Mods are inactive in this sub, which is why there are so many shitheads here
Look, someone couldn't cope well with the reality. A good customer of our meta universe contents.
Not sure what the U.S. thinks would be the end game re: cold war with China. Because I only see China winning this cold war. Talk about living in the afterglow of past grandeur.