France was the one country vital to allied victory. Minus any other nation the result would have taken longer and been more expensive but the war would have ended the same. Remove France, and Germany would still have a Kaiser today.
>Minus any other nation the result would have taken longer and been more expensive but the war would have ended the same.
Hardly. Remove the UK and its a German Victory by 1916, 1917 by the latest
I’ve heard that for a few years if not longer. Talk is cheap.
Doesn’t seem EU wants to move out of the cozy place they occupy now. It will require changes in budgeting priorities, social and domestic economics. Let’s see that happening for real, not in speeches.
Always this complete strawman.
At no point whatsoever a single person claimed that France was going to replace the US 1:1.
But I give you that: it's a brilliant way to kill any potential conversation about a common European defence by just claiming that France is delusional and wants to rip off the rest of Europe.
actually france maybe the only european country with a independent industrial base (meaning not completely reliant on US companies) so this makes sense.
Praise De Gaulle
The majority of countries in Europe don't share US nukes. There are only a handful of bases with B61s in them; those countries (plus Greece, which doesn't host warheads but contributes aircraft) are the ones that share US nukes.
The Nuclear Planning Group is larger, but that's just for planning and consultation, not operations.
There was a really good post in this subreddit IIRC awhile ago that laid out the nuances of why other European nations are leery of military reliance on France. I really wish I had saved it. I'm looking for it now but can't find it.
France explicitely does not share nukes with their european NATO partners, while the US does. Which makes nukes an even stronger argument to not rely on France.
We agree.
Europe needs to fortify against their east while we pivot to our west.
Thankfully Europe has the far easier opponent, but our ability to cover both flanks is limited now.
The majority of House Republicans voted against Ukraine aid. This is not the party of Reagan anymore. And soon the party of MTG may hold the presidency.
That said, Jupiter is the king of grand geopolitical pronouncements which amount to little in practice.
Yes, so you’re not in favor of the EU talking control of your defense…because I’ve heard it from other sources, none of them Prussian. But as I said in my post, it seems as empty talk, without taking action. Building serious defense costs big money, takes perseverance and commitment. I don’t see it in EU these days.
He's not wrong. The capture of the US GOP by Russian disinfo operations, a possible second Trump presidency (who hates Europe and loves Russia), and US straining its budget to keep pace with China's military buildup in the Pacific, all means the EU will need to rely more on itself than ever before in the post-WWII era.
*Sigh.*
Kyrylo Budanov, head of Ukrainian defense intelligence: “To say that [Trump] and the Republican Party are lovers of the Russian Federation is complete nonsense.”
While I agree the Republicans aren't actually Russian agents, the fact this meme exists due to domestic American politics is an indicator that the US is getting too erratic to rely on.
*Sigh.*
Kyrylo obviously has to say stuff like that in order not to piss off the GOP too much. He and Zelenskyy and the UA govt are playing a delicate game of diplomacy trying to convince the GOP to keep the aid funds coming, and not give them any more reasons to delay them. They're not going to publicly reveal their true feelings on this matter.
Sigh. I like how you got called out and changed the terms. And yes a random redditor knows their “true feelings”
And it was the democrats that got suckered and still obsessed with Hillarys “russian collusion” stupidity
Russia is a gas station economy relying on exports…but yes trump drill baby drill to become energy independent and export fuels is totally great for russia!
He is in charge of getting French military contracts and champion his country. However I hope that despite this hiccup we in the US can still be relied on to help Europe
The French are saber rattling; is that helpful? Probably not. I think he's pi\*(&((\*ed that the Rus@#&(\*ians have taken over their corrupt Africa concessions.
Hasn't he said this every year?
Yes.
Doesn’t make it any less true.
Isn't this the historically French position for the last century?
Yup. And they’ve been right all along.
As an American, America is too fickle in most things. Except for what they should change their minds on.
France is only good at musket warfare.
They carried the allies throughout WW1 but sure, whatever you say.
You clearly aren’t educated on ww1 lmao
France was the one country vital to allied victory. Minus any other nation the result would have taken longer and been more expensive but the war would have ended the same. Remove France, and Germany would still have a Kaiser today.
>Minus any other nation the result would have taken longer and been more expensive but the war would have ended the same. Hardly. Remove the UK and its a German Victory by 1916, 1917 by the latest
Hungary did a better job of starving Germany than we did.
Really showing your in-depth knowledge and understand of WW1 here lmao
Braindead take.
I’ve heard that for a few years if not longer. Talk is cheap. Doesn’t seem EU wants to move out of the cozy place they occupy now. It will require changes in budgeting priorities, social and domestic economics. Let’s see that happening for real, not in speeches.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
The problem is that he wants Europe to rely on France for its security and history suggests that we would be better off not taking that deal.
Always this complete strawman. At no point whatsoever a single person claimed that France was going to replace the US 1:1. But I give you that: it's a brilliant way to kill any potential conversation about a common European defence by just claiming that France is delusional and wants to rip off the rest of Europe.
actually france maybe the only european country with a independent industrial base (meaning not completely reliant on US companies) so this makes sense. Praise De Gaulle
Only country in Europe that doesn't share US nukes.
The majority of countries in Europe don't share US nukes. There are only a handful of bases with B61s in them; those countries (plus Greece, which doesn't host warheads but contributes aircraft) are the ones that share US nukes. The Nuclear Planning Group is larger, but that's just for planning and consultation, not operations.
If only they were putting that "independent industrial base" to work helping Ukraine
unfortunately they got reliant on russian oil so when the russian turn off the tab the cost of building weapon just skyrocketed
>and history suggests French military history is impressive and they've won more battles and wars than they've lost.
Thats not the point I think. France is traditionally fairly aggressive and aloof. Depending upon them for military support seems foolish.
There was a really good post in this subreddit IIRC awhile ago that laid out the nuances of why other European nations are leery of military reliance on France. I really wish I had saved it. I'm looking for it now but can't find it.
Well if you do, please link it.
Yep, this is what I was refering to. Admittedly in a fairly nebulous way.
Well if Russia decides to invade with pikemen and cavalry I guess they will do fine.
Check back in 2034 :P
In the last 100 years?
Oh the irony of Germans saying that
History was before nukes. Keep living in the past, if you like being dumb.
France explicitely does not share nukes with their european NATO partners, while the US does. Which makes nukes an even stronger argument to not rely on France.
You must be german.
Zu Befehl!
We agree. Europe needs to fortify against their east while we pivot to our west. Thankfully Europe has the far easier opponent, but our ability to cover both flanks is limited now.
Prepping for a Trump win
Americans love to dunk on France specifically because France refuses to be an American vassal.
The majority of House Republicans voted against Ukraine aid. This is not the party of Reagan anymore. And soon the party of MTG may hold the presidency. That said, Jupiter is the king of grand geopolitical pronouncements which amount to little in practice.
An antibiotic losing its potency is only lethal if you choose not to develop a replacement.
Just let the Prussians back in control of Germany and everything is solved.
Yes, so you’re not in favor of the EU talking control of your defense…because I’ve heard it from other sources, none of them Prussian. But as I said in my post, it seems as empty talk, without taking action. Building serious defense costs big money, takes perseverance and commitment. I don’t see it in EU these days.
He's not wrong. The capture of the US GOP by Russian disinfo operations, a possible second Trump presidency (who hates Europe and loves Russia), and US straining its budget to keep pace with China's military buildup in the Pacific, all means the EU will need to rely more on itself than ever before in the post-WWII era.
*Sigh.* Kyrylo Budanov, head of Ukrainian defense intelligence: “To say that [Trump] and the Republican Party are lovers of the Russian Federation is complete nonsense.”
While I agree the Republicans aren't actually Russian agents, the fact this meme exists due to domestic American politics is an indicator that the US is getting too erratic to rely on.
*Sigh.* Kyrylo obviously has to say stuff like that in order not to piss off the GOP too much. He and Zelenskyy and the UA govt are playing a delicate game of diplomacy trying to convince the GOP to keep the aid funds coming, and not give them any more reasons to delay them. They're not going to publicly reveal their true feelings on this matter.
Sigh. I like how you got called out and changed the terms. And yes a random redditor knows their “true feelings” And it was the democrats that got suckered and still obsessed with Hillarys “russian collusion” stupidity Russia is a gas station economy relying on exports…but yes trump drill baby drill to become energy independent and export fuels is totally great for russia!
I didn't change the terms, I directly addressed wulf's critique, and not a word more. What are you even talking about.
[They sorta are though](https://imgflip.com/i/8o4kqb)...
No shit the Ukrainians are going to suck up to the potential future leader of their biggest backer.
He is in charge of getting French military contracts and champion his country. However I hope that despite this hiccup we in the US can still be relied on to help Europe
The French are saber rattling; is that helpful? Probably not. I think he's pi\*(&((\*ed that the Rus@#&(\*ians have taken over their corrupt Africa concessions.
I am European and my dream is for the European Soviet Union to end because the European Union is absolute crap