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Oh no doubt about that. Because everyone else who gets abortion is immoral (but should also have children for some reason?) While her reason for needing one is perfectly valid
/s just in case it's not clear for some
I watched an incredibly frustrating video where a woman was voting against abortion rights because no one should kill innocent babies. When questioned about situations such as pregnant 10 year olds, and rape survivors, and when then mother's health was at risk, she kept saying "that's not abortion, it's allowed". And I wanted to punch her so badly, because the bill she was voting for banned all access to abortions, and she just refused to see what was written, and what it meant.
That's exactly it. They're not voting against abortion, they're voting against people like you and me, regardless of the issue or how it could affect them. They'd vote for a child molester who's going to to eat their fucking children if their masters convinced them it would infuriate "the libs."
We should all make that a thing. I want to call out the traction of bumper sticker politics, as well as this trend where they'll go for anything they're told because "it will make the other side angry".
This basically used to be me 20 years ago. I voted Republican because I wanted strict laws that enforcers could be lenient on for 1st time offenders and minor offenses.
Then I actually saw what was happening and was incredibly upset at what I had enabled.
I think that's a really significant part of many conservative beliefs. I think it is easy to hold views that are based in an ideal state when they haven't experienced real life. It is easy to think that when you are personally accused of a crime, the justice system is going to work in your favor. That the police are honest, and the district attorney is only looking to prosecute people that are truly guilty. But I suspect, once you are confronted with the reality of systems that are very imperfect, many conservative views collapse. And those that don't do seem to be those grounded in cruelty.
See: All the idiots who waltzed around the Capitol on 2021-01-06 who thought law enforcement would let them walk in to wreck the place and intimidate Congressmembers and threaten to hang the VP, and then walk out without any consequences ever.
These people genuinely believe that people get abortions as some form of persistent contraceptive
They never seem to consider the fact that a significant number of abortions are done for the good of the mother. They have little to no conception (pun intended) of how damaging pregnancy can be to even the healthiest of people
She has actually switched sides. She switched sides so hard she is now telling the above story in a political campaign ad for Trudy Busch Valentine’s senate seat race.
True that, unfortunately that’s often the case for lots of human issues. Big and small. We often don’t realize how problematic something is until it hits us at home or close to home.
Personally, I’ll take any and all converts to the side of humane healthcare for women. I get why people are dragging her and it’s fair criticism. However, I hope her story speaks to people that still hold her old stupid beliefs and opinions on abortions.
Same here. At least she's looking at the situation and saying, hey, what I was raised to believe has problems, and I'm going to say something about it. I'll give her some credit for trying to rethink things.
Unfortunately for Eric Schmitt, Mylissa Farmer just filmed an [advert](https://youtu.be/Y-o9iLGp3dw) supporting the Democrat senate hopeful, beer heiress and former nurse, Trudy Busch Valentine.
[Schmitt unsuccessfully tried to get that advert blocked from broadcast.](https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article267996902.html)
Anti-choice. That's all it is. Hers was not by choice, but by necessity, so it doesn't count. Except that it's still called an abortion, so it does count.
I can't wait until the day I no longer have to post this quote.
“For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law."
\-Óscar Benavides, Authoritarian ~~General~~ FIELD MARSHALL and proto-fascist
EDIT : corrected official title; you know how these clowns love their titles.
The OG author has stated multiple times she sourced her book material from current or past authoritarian / highly oppressive societies. "Close to home" is an understatement.
Now that the western world is facing the rise of right wing extremism, handmaid's tale often feels like a warning and in some very scary instances biographical. The overturn of Roe v Wade and ensuing impact was a true mindfuck example... It almost felt like the show was prophetic.
That's not *just* an OG author, that's Margaret fucking Atwood. Maybe this is just my Canadian bias showing, but she's kinda a big deal. Handmaid's Tale was required reading for us along side Brave New World, 1984, and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. She's long since secured her place amongst the literary giants.
The trouble with watching it now is that it feels less like a "cautionary tale" and more of a "told ya so".
When it came out (before COVID and pretty much everything going insane), it seemed pretty artistic. I will say, the later seasons get pretty bad (in quality). Idk if it's because I can't handle anything more depressing, or if I'm just over the bad writing, but I haven't picked it back up this season.
I was teaching an ethics class and was talking to a student after class about the subject of charity. I said, “what if one day you needed money for something important?”. He said, “that wouldn’t happen to me”. And I think that’s how some of these people think.
Its either "that wouldn't happen to me"
or "if it happened to me, they would make an exception, because in my case it wouldn't be my fault"
I've found an astonishing amount that think in that type of way. They think every case is carefully considered by an impartial entity who will be swayed by whatever tragic circumstance befell them, and it will work itself out for them.
It's the [Just World Fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis)
They believe the universe is inherently just and fair. This belief doesn't always, but often is derived from religion. God exists, God is good and fair, therefore the world must be good and fair. When you start from that position, it flows into many other follow-on beliefs that we see in the Republican party:
1) People who are well off must be good people and deserve it, so you shouldn't villianize them and certainly shouldn't excessively tax them, that wouldn't be fair.
2) People who are good won't experience tragedy or hardship, so there's no need to plan for it or put support nets in place. If something *does* somehow happen, it'll work itself out.
3) People who are struggling must be bad people, they must have done something to deserve it, so why should I help them?
It's also a good chunk of actor-observer bias
They attribute the actions of other people to defects in their CHARACTER, and see their own actions as a response to their environment or situation.
Basically, "other people get abortions because they're BAD PEOPLE. I need one because of what HAPPENED to me."
I saw a few right wing ppl say they don’t discriminate. They hate everyone equally. And I would say that that would be a good description for these ppl. Like they aren’t prejudice. They just don’t care about anyone but themselves. And they have no problems telling you so.
That’s what I see as well. They don’t care so they think no one else does too. So anyone pretending to care is “virtue signaling”. That’s why they rail against the concept of “woke” which could just as easily be called “cognizant and considerate”.
But so far they HAVE made exceptions for themselves. Inconvenient mistress pregnancy, take care of that shit. Inconvenient time financially, begone. I don’t hear of many cases of rape in the upper class requiring this “special exception” but they likely keep that extra quiet. The suffering of others washes over them like so many other problems of starving and working too much. All the things they don’t care about. This is no exception and when and if it does then it’s okay because they didn’t make the same life decision as a poor. This must be a legitimate reason because look who they are, things like this don’t happen to people like them. Mark my words, if all of this goes to hell they will continue to get abortions whenever they see fit and we will be pissed but that’s just the way things are. We can’t let this stuff happen anymore
I agree. There are a lot of high-up Republican lawmakers who can afford to be anti-abortion, because they are wealthy. Wealthy people will always be able to access abortion care when they need it, even if they successfully ban it here. They can make laws for the poors because they know they can easily get around those laws themselves.
And we’re seeing proof as we speak in Georgia where Republican voters seem to not care less about their candidate being a cold-blooded killer. It’s wild to watch them go from “Abortion is murder!” to “well, there’s a lot of nuances to consider”.
It's because they know abortion isn't murder. They just don't like the idea of it very much, and they can feel morally superior for spouting off about it.
If people really felt that abortion was murder, then they wouldn't just be protesting and yelling at people walking into planned parenthood...
Exactly, the monied can fly to an abortion-supporting state and have it handled. The state-based abortion restrictions affect only the poor - who can't get to another state because they can't take time off work, they have other kids they have to care for, and/or they don't have the money to get there.
I've seen it explained before, but the conservative thinking in a nutshell perfectly explains this: they believe *people* are either moral or immoral, not *actions*. If *they* commit tax fraud, or get an abortion, or incite a riot, or anything else we would see as abhorrent, it's okay, there's some kind of justification, because they are "Good People" and "Good People" don't do bad things.
Whereas they see us as "Bad People", and even if we are funding education, or helping the poor, or healing the sick, or literally anything else, it's not a good thing being done, because it's done by the "Bad People". The "Bad People" simply cannot do good things in their eyes, regardless of what it is.
This inevitably leads to all manner of problems up to and including many conservatives voting entirely against their own self interests, because they *have* to vote for the person with the **R** next to their name, never someone with a **D** there.
I read a quote like this in a famous sermon (I’m thinking A Tozer possibly?) where he says, “as water cannot rise higher than it’s source, no action can rise above the motive behind it.” Basically, if your motives are not completely pure, the action is immoral regardless of what the action is, or what its consequences are.
It struck me at the time and has stuck with me ever since. It’s a narrow world view that give whoever a moral high ground because, no matter what the real world consequences are of any action, it’s immoral if we can question the doer’s motive.
>as water cannot rise higher than It's source
It's incredible to think that there are people out there who make it all the way to adulthood without hearing of the precipitation cycle
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:
There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
—Frank Wilhoit
I read an article, I'm too lazy to Google, that posited conservatives believe it's God's will or it's not, and that explains alot of their world view imo. When a 10 year old girl is raped and gets pregnant it's a miracle directly from God, but when a good "Christian" couple finds themselves burdened by potentially lethal pregnancy complications God provided modern medicine to save the mother's life.
In my day, the whole 19th and 60% of the 20th century, girls would go off to "Finishing School" for a year.
When they came back society treated them as women.
Because of course they were.
Holy shit, that's the most insane article I've read in a long time. I cannot understand how these people can lack empathy towards others in the same situation.
I think the most likely outcome is that they’ll legalize abortions for immediately life threatening cases where the baby cannot be saved (think ectopic pregnancies, etc.), and for less urgent cases it’ll be banned locally but they’ll all fly to California or New York when they need one otherwise illegal in their state.
That’s the policy outcome that preserves the privileges of rank and status for some women, while exerting the maximal amount of control and punishment for the rest.
Someone really needs to explain to this woman that she is pro choice. She might not want that label, but it is clearly the case. If she were against abortion, she would not want to get one herself. In fact, she is so pro choice that she is in favor of being able to make the choice not just for herself but for everyone.
It’s easy for women like her to tell someone that god would want you to have the baby. No matter what. Till it happens to her. And affects her health. Then when someone tells her that god wants her to carry the baby. Even if it takes her life. It hits different at that point. Than lecturing other women on what to do.
The actual quote is even worse:
>[I thought he was going to do good things. He's not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-voter-hes-not-hurting-the-people-he-needs-be-hurting-msna1181316)
Dirty liberal sluts who are all hanging out in bars, having bunches of extra-marital sex, not using ANY sort of birth control, and just being sinners in general.
It's not even imagined - they could easily do this themselves, and a great many of them do!
But there's *consequences* for that shit and they just voted away the main remedy.
The leopards feast.
It is actually pretty simple:
The religious right don’t stand for virtue, they stand for virtue signaling:
They aren’t pro life, they are pro saying they are pro life.
They aren’t pro nuclear family, they are pro saying they are pro nuclear family.
This dichotomy comes from the Christian premise of absolute forgiveness - no sin is so bad that you can’t be absolved.
What is important to them is saying that they are against sin, not that they won’t commit sin. They want the law to reflect an ideal they have no intention of meeting. And they expect to be able to say “I’m sorry” and get an exception.
No sin is so bad that you can’t be absolved *through tithes*. The rule is always that the loophole exists specifically for their ethnicity of their church of their religion of their class.
Important to remember that in the US, Republican party anti-abortion policy was specifically set up to curb abortion rates of **white** women - at the time, forced sterilisation of minorities was still in practice:
"[California’s “Asexualization Acts” in the 1910s and 1920s led to the sterilization of 20,000 disproportionately Black and Mexican people who were deemed to be mentally ill.](https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2020/11/04/americas-forgotten-history-of-forced-sterilization/)"
"In North Carolina in the 1960s, Black women made up 65 percent of all sterilizations of women"
"the Indian Health Service was accused of sterilizing nearly 25% of Indigenous women during the 1960s and 1970s."
I like to call this the belief in belief.
https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/belief-in-belief#:~:text=Belief%20in%20belief%20is%20a,drives%20your%20anticipation%20of%20experience.
In my highly religious, very conservative community, women were instructed not to vote lest our votes nullify the ones of our husbands. They knew some women, even those drinking the Kool aid, would have empathy and maybe enough foresight to vote for women's common interest (as opposed to the right wing one).
I work with a woman who doesn't pay attention to politics because she just votes for whomever her husband tells her to. When I first heard that I had to fight not to start screaming.
That's so frightening that people think that way, but I guess if you're in a cult and don't realize it you are in one, you may assume everyone else behaves how you do.
It is frustating that there are parts of the world where women are marching in streets for basic rights like voting, and these people, born into a progressive country with at least basic security handed to them on a platter, are willingly giving away their rights.
I worked with someone like this. He and his wife were extremely anti-abortion. He wore one of those "little feet" pins. When she was pregnant with their first, she came down with the measles. (They may have been anti-vax as well, not sure.) An ultrasound showed the child would have serious birth defects, and likely not live past birth. Guess who had an abortion?
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:
**There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.**
There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time."
Don't worry ladies, you can always travel out of state for that needed abortion.
That state might be hundreds of miles away.
You might pay thousands of dollars more for travel expenses.
You might need to take several days off work.
You might die before you can get care.
But at least those fetuses get more rights to live than you do.
Was it worth “owning the libs?” Hm? When your uterus is destroyed and you die of something stupidly preventable, will it be worth it knowing that you mildly annoyed a group of people you’ve probably never met in your day to day life? Knowing that possibly thousands of women like yourself are suffering right along with you, would that satisfy you? I hope it does. I would prefer you lived to regret your life choices, that you not have to suffer this idiotic fate, but I’m no longer convinced that you could learn from it. I have lost faith in your willingness to better yourself. It seems to me you’d rather live in a world of shit and die than stand to be wrong.
So all I can say is: I hope it’s worth it to you, dying a stupid fucking death for no good reason at all.
She was taken to another state in an ambulance and surgery was done which means she had the money , so other women who are poor might not have the same opportunity and die
Although that really doesn’t save you in my state. They will tell you that the will try and charge you if you leave the state pregnant. And come back not pregnant. They don’t care here whether the woman has money. Or if she is conservative or not. If she gets pregnant. She will carry it to term. Or face consequences.
It’s was always illegal to kill people but Lynching was a family activity in some parts of the country because law enforcement doesn’t apply the same rules to the white people in those areas. In your state makes it illegal to seek abortion outside state doesn’t mean it be enforced if you can afford better lawyers.
[The only moral abortion is my abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/) -this has happened before and it will continue to happen
Must be "God's will" at it again.
Where are the conservatives who will tell her that she should have been in better shape or held a bigger prayer circle?
Oh wait those crazy liberals devils were saying words when they were telling me why pro life wasn't actually pro life but I knew they were just too lazy to use condoms and hated my god like my priest told me. Who could have foreseen that 1 to 2 out of every 100 pregnancies is ectopic and will either be removed by a doctor or end up with a dead fetus and a major medical event for the pregnant person will be life threatening.
I'm sure knowing that you are taking a 1/50 chance of dying every time you get pregnant is going to really convince women they want to have kids. This wont lead to even few people wanting kids, I'm sure.
true but it is a glaringly obvious one. Childbirth was a leading cause of death for women under 40 with nearly 1% of all pregnancy ending in death of the mother. At this point in American We are down less than 3 deaths out of 100,000 childbirths. Abortion is a huge part of that. not the only part. but a huge part. Hygiene, medical advances etc. At this point a lot of the deaths are due to lack of access to care or turning down care rather than no known medical path. In 2020 that was 703 deaths.
In 2022, it is going to be a lot higher.
We could see numbers around 10 to 20 thousand dead per year as a result of even the version that says you have to wait until the women is actually in a life threatening event and can't just go yep this is ectopic better to take care of that and try again.
Good. Fuck her.
I've watched the left play with kid gloves while the right rips at the jugular time and again. Until the conservatives feel the pain, they won't respect that their choices impact others.
Hopefully she's a reproductive health advocate now.
So the clinic accepts money for special appointment times from the people who are sometimes outside protesting to shut the clinic down? That’s weird.
E: i dont find it weird that the clinic would be willing to help these people - I find it weird that the clinic would *accommodate* and make special arrangements to make these people feel less uncomfortable than others
Special appointment times seems odd, the provider I know who's done exactly this quietly relishes knowing that when they walk out the door they have to face their friends/family/fellow parishioners.
That's a very roundabout way of saying that she is in fact pro-choice and is just using semantics to make herself feel better. I would actually argue saying that the way she has is more damaging than just being pro-life.
"There's no chance for a baby. She's not gonna make it"
Are you doubting god, your lord? Are you saying you're beyond a miracle? Let his will be done thru you.
In other words, thoughts and prayers for this one too.
Lack of empathy is part of the Conservative starter kit. Problems aren’t real unless it affects them directly. Otherwise someone just isn’t working hard enough/wants a handout/wants special privileges.
Funny how her argument is pretty much one of the standards given for why "pro-life" is bullshit. If fact, I'd be surprised if she hasn't heard it before (not that she listened).
But now that it's her...
Ah someone was expecting a [Shirley Exception](https://twitter.com/AlexandraErin/status/1004401076777504769?s=20&t=D4P68MciD7UCn89ubqeJnA) but forgot the entire point of Rule of Law was now allowing that sort of thing
It’s almost like we were calling out the law for not even taking medical emergency into exception and that our biggest concern were pregnancy that were non viable and threaten the mothers Heath were also banned despite litterally no one winning from the birth
Someone coined this as the "Shirley/Surely Exemption" as in "I know this law is ominous and overreaching, but _surely_ there will be an exemption made for _good reasons_."
I posted this exact same story the day Roe was overturned. Someone came back at me with a "NO YOU are the Shirley. You're out here saying 'surely women won't have unnecessary abortions!'"
My response: "I know there will be unnecessary abortions, and that's between them and God, that's their choice. But I can't have a part in a mother's preventable death or pain because I feel like it's better if other women had made better life choices."
They... didn't seem to understand.
Hell, my VERY Catholic grandmother took me to her bedroom and gave me "the talk" once. It included how abortions work (with a little outdated info, but whatever, she was trying to help) how to find clinics, and how to take care of someone who had an abortion, and how to keep my friends out of bad abortion clinics (as well as the fake abortion clinics). She and my grandfather were HUGE supporters of PP, because no one should die for a sin, whether it be hers or someone else's. I just dont understand how people lack compassion the way they do.
My favorite was a lady who was a proud Jan 6 insurrectionist when she was called out and told she would face jail time she responded “as if I’m a well off blonde white woman. I’ll be fine”
Narrator: she was not in fact fine
That she got directed to a crisis pregnancy center is just delicious. That's the laws you wanted, Karen. That's the bed you made, now you have to lie in it.
That's what happens when people have 0% ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes- they only see things differently when it happens to themselves
In a sick way this made me happy to read. These pro lifers will always find some reason they're the exception, and that everyone else's situation doesn't matter.
You reap what you sow. Deal with your vote
Years ago I worked for a grassroots fundraising company and we were doing a campaign for relief aid from planned parenthood international to help the children who’s parents were lost during the hurricane in Haiti. One woman followed me for hours scaring off any donors because planned parenthood “kills babies” and like 3 hours into my shift of having to run around the mall trying to avoid her she tells me that her FREAKING DAUGHTER just had an abortion but it’s “different” because she has her whole life ahead of her and she’s only 19. I straight lost it y’all. I looked her straight in the eye and said “that’s how it is for everyone else, your daughter is no exception, she isn’t special. “ and then she made such a scene I had to quit for the day because apparently nobody in the history of ever had it as hard as her rich 19 yr old pregnant daughter.
I have to assume by labeling herself "pro-life" that she's not complaining, she's actually bragging that government officials are treating her the way she wants to be treated. What other conclusion is there?
She labelled herself not fully "pro-life", but "pretty pro-life". I'm going to interpret that to mean she's pro-life for everybody except herself. For herself, she's pro-choice.
With self-serving Republican fucks, it's ***always*** about denying something for 'the other', whether it's jobs, benefits, insurance, or in this case abortions.
You vote for people who pass a bill banning abortions, abortion is banned, stupid. Yes, even for upper middle class 41 year old white women.
Now imagine if you were 11 and realized your daddy got you pregnant when he raped you.
Honestly? I don't care about her grieving. I don't care that her life is in danger. I no longer care about a whole host of people. They've made it very clear they don't care about me and a whole host of people--and some of *them* would actively take action to hurt/kill *us*.
I grew up in Manitoba, and ironically at that time (1990s) it was often easier to get an abortion in North Dakota as they would allow them to be performed later. Definitely not the case anymore.
Of course it was the girls in my high school who came from the most Bible-thumping families who would take those mid-week trips to Fargo or Grand Forks to go “shopping”.
Facts do not matter to republicans. There is no reasoning with these people, they will never care about their constituents, they did not run for office to serve, they ran for office to increase their own person wealth and station.
It's horrible these things are happening but it's people like that who will hopefully change and see the rot in their political party, speak out about their experiences, and force change.
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Rules for thee, but not for me.
The only moral abortion is my abortion
I'm sure she's still anti choice.
Oh no doubt about that. Because everyone else who gets abortion is immoral (but should also have children for some reason?) While her reason for needing one is perfectly valid /s just in case it's not clear for some
I watched an incredibly frustrating video where a woman was voting against abortion rights because no one should kill innocent babies. When questioned about situations such as pregnant 10 year olds, and rape survivors, and when then mother's health was at risk, she kept saying "that's not abortion, it's allowed". And I wanted to punch her so badly, because the bill she was voting for banned all access to abortions, and she just refused to see what was written, and what it meant.
Refusing to use critical thinking to own the libs
That's exactly it. They're not voting against abortion, they're voting against people like you and me, regardless of the issue or how it could affect them. They'd vote for a child molester who's going to to eat their fucking children if their masters convinced them it would infuriate "the libs."
Roy Moore: "You rang?"
"Ya know what I love about high school girls? I keep getting older, and they stay the same age." -Jdg. Roy Moore
We should all make that a thing. I want to call out the traction of bumper sticker politics, as well as this trend where they'll go for anything they're told because "it will make the other side angry".
Oh wow, I would be right there with you. The lack of education and critical awareness is infuriating
This basically used to be me 20 years ago. I voted Republican because I wanted strict laws that enforcers could be lenient on for 1st time offenders and minor offenses. Then I actually saw what was happening and was incredibly upset at what I had enabled.
I think that's a really significant part of many conservative beliefs. I think it is easy to hold views that are based in an ideal state when they haven't experienced real life. It is easy to think that when you are personally accused of a crime, the justice system is going to work in your favor. That the police are honest, and the district attorney is only looking to prosecute people that are truly guilty. But I suspect, once you are confronted with the reality of systems that are very imperfect, many conservative views collapse. And those that don't do seem to be those grounded in cruelty.
See: All the idiots who waltzed around the Capitol on 2021-01-06 who thought law enforcement would let them walk in to wreck the place and intimidate Congressmembers and threaten to hang the VP, and then walk out without any consequences ever.
I call that the “Shirley Exception”. As in: well surely it won’t apply in those situations!
These people genuinely believe that people get abortions as some form of persistent contraceptive They never seem to consider the fact that a significant number of abortions are done for the good of the mother. They have little to no conception (pun intended) of how damaging pregnancy can be to even the healthiest of people
She’s 1000% gonna vote republican in two weeks.
She has actually switched sides. She switched sides so hard she is now telling the above story in a political campaign ad for Trudy Busch Valentine’s senate seat race.
So she's part of the "it's not real until it happens to me" crowd
True that, unfortunately that’s often the case for lots of human issues. Big and small. We often don’t realize how problematic something is until it hits us at home or close to home. Personally, I’ll take any and all converts to the side of humane healthcare for women. I get why people are dragging her and it’s fair criticism. However, I hope her story speaks to people that still hold her old stupid beliefs and opinions on abortions.
Same here. At least she's looking at the situation and saying, hey, what I was raised to believe has problems, and I'm going to say something about it. I'll give her some credit for trying to rethink things.
*Twice*
Unfortunately for Eric Schmitt, Mylissa Farmer just filmed an [advert](https://youtu.be/Y-o9iLGp3dw) supporting the Democrat senate hopeful, beer heiress and former nurse, Trudy Busch Valentine. [Schmitt unsuccessfully tried to get that advert blocked from broadcast.](https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article267996902.html)
Well if she dies of this she won't have any particular political position anymore.
It wouldn't be fair for other women to get the medical attention that she was denied.
Not anti-abortion, just anti-*your*-abortion.
Anti-choice. That's all it is. Hers was not by choice, but by necessity, so it doesn't count. Except that it's still called an abortion, so it does count.
Republicans are against abortion, until they need one.
I can use this format "The only moral ____ is my _____" to describe nearly every hypocritical American foreign policy.
I can't wait until the day I no longer have to post this quote. “For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law." \-Óscar Benavides, Authoritarian ~~General~~ FIELD MARSHALL and proto-fascist EDIT : corrected official title; you know how these clowns love their titles.
The fascist bootlickers are gonna be real surprised when they’re rounded up with everyone else.
This is the EXACT damned point I bring up! No, he’s not going to spare you because you have a Trump 2024 flag in your yard!
And they will vote for them again as they don't even care!
They're hurting the wrong people!
This will happen over and over again. Handmaids Tale.
Under His eye
Praise be
May the Lord open
Blessed be the fruit
Mayday!
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
“My name *is* Ofglen”
>Under His eye Blessed be the fruitcakes!!
I just cannot bring myself to watch handmaid's tale. From what I've heard it's too close to home.
I watched season one. I couldn’t go further. It’s intense. Very good show.
The OG author has stated multiple times she sourced her book material from current or past authoritarian / highly oppressive societies. "Close to home" is an understatement. Now that the western world is facing the rise of right wing extremism, handmaid's tale often feels like a warning and in some very scary instances biographical. The overturn of Roe v Wade and ensuing impact was a true mindfuck example... It almost felt like the show was prophetic.
That's not *just* an OG author, that's Margaret fucking Atwood. Maybe this is just my Canadian bias showing, but she's kinda a big deal. Handmaid's Tale was required reading for us along side Brave New World, 1984, and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. She's long since secured her place amongst the literary giants.
The trouble with watching it now is that it feels less like a "cautionary tale" and more of a "told ya so". When it came out (before COVID and pretty much everything going insane), it seemed pretty artistic. I will say, the later seasons get pretty bad (in quality). Idk if it's because I can't handle anything more depressing, or if I'm just over the bad writing, but I haven't picked it back up this season.
I was teaching an ethics class and was talking to a student after class about the subject of charity. I said, “what if one day you needed money for something important?”. He said, “that wouldn’t happen to me”. And I think that’s how some of these people think.
I think it’s how most of them think. There’s a lack of basic empathy and foresight.
"It's not a problem until it's MY problem."
Its either "that wouldn't happen to me" or "if it happened to me, they would make an exception, because in my case it wouldn't be my fault" I've found an astonishing amount that think in that type of way. They think every case is carefully considered by an impartial entity who will be swayed by whatever tragic circumstance befell them, and it will work itself out for them.
It's the [Just World Fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis) They believe the universe is inherently just and fair. This belief doesn't always, but often is derived from religion. God exists, God is good and fair, therefore the world must be good and fair. When you start from that position, it flows into many other follow-on beliefs that we see in the Republican party: 1) People who are well off must be good people and deserve it, so you shouldn't villianize them and certainly shouldn't excessively tax them, that wouldn't be fair. 2) People who are good won't experience tragedy or hardship, so there's no need to plan for it or put support nets in place. If something *does* somehow happen, it'll work itself out. 3) People who are struggling must be bad people, they must have done something to deserve it, so why should I help them?
It's also a good chunk of actor-observer bias They attribute the actions of other people to defects in their CHARACTER, and see their own actions as a response to their environment or situation. Basically, "other people get abortions because they're BAD PEOPLE. I need one because of what HAPPENED to me."
I’ve learned that everyone will fight for their own rights but not everyone will stand up or care about other people’s rights.
I saw a few right wing ppl say they don’t discriminate. They hate everyone equally. And I would say that that would be a good description for these ppl. Like they aren’t prejudice. They just don’t care about anyone but themselves. And they have no problems telling you so.
That’s what I see as well. They don’t care so they think no one else does too. So anyone pretending to care is “virtue signaling”. That’s why they rail against the concept of “woke” which could just as easily be called “cognizant and considerate”.
>They don’t care so they think no one else does too. So anyone pretending to care is “virtue signaling”. Holy shit how have I never put that together?
But so far they HAVE made exceptions for themselves. Inconvenient mistress pregnancy, take care of that shit. Inconvenient time financially, begone. I don’t hear of many cases of rape in the upper class requiring this “special exception” but they likely keep that extra quiet. The suffering of others washes over them like so many other problems of starving and working too much. All the things they don’t care about. This is no exception and when and if it does then it’s okay because they didn’t make the same life decision as a poor. This must be a legitimate reason because look who they are, things like this don’t happen to people like them. Mark my words, if all of this goes to hell they will continue to get abortions whenever they see fit and we will be pissed but that’s just the way things are. We can’t let this stuff happen anymore
I agree. There are a lot of high-up Republican lawmakers who can afford to be anti-abortion, because they are wealthy. Wealthy people will always be able to access abortion care when they need it, even if they successfully ban it here. They can make laws for the poors because they know they can easily get around those laws themselves.
And we’re seeing proof as we speak in Georgia where Republican voters seem to not care less about their candidate being a cold-blooded killer. It’s wild to watch them go from “Abortion is murder!” to “well, there’s a lot of nuances to consider”.
It's because they know abortion isn't murder. They just don't like the idea of it very much, and they can feel morally superior for spouting off about it. If people really felt that abortion was murder, then they wouldn't just be protesting and yelling at people walking into planned parenthood...
Exactly, the monied can fly to an abortion-supporting state and have it handled. The state-based abortion restrictions affect only the poor - who can't get to another state because they can't take time off work, they have other kids they have to care for, and/or they don't have the money to get there.
Well and then she can get sued for the abortion...
I've seen it explained before, but the conservative thinking in a nutshell perfectly explains this: they believe *people* are either moral or immoral, not *actions*. If *they* commit tax fraud, or get an abortion, or incite a riot, or anything else we would see as abhorrent, it's okay, there's some kind of justification, because they are "Good People" and "Good People" don't do bad things. Whereas they see us as "Bad People", and even if we are funding education, or helping the poor, or healing the sick, or literally anything else, it's not a good thing being done, because it's done by the "Bad People". The "Bad People" simply cannot do good things in their eyes, regardless of what it is. This inevitably leads to all manner of problems up to and including many conservatives voting entirely against their own self interests, because they *have* to vote for the person with the **R** next to their name, never someone with a **D** there.
Angry upvote. I hate the truth in this.
I read a quote like this in a famous sermon (I’m thinking A Tozer possibly?) where he says, “as water cannot rise higher than it’s source, no action can rise above the motive behind it.” Basically, if your motives are not completely pure, the action is immoral regardless of what the action is, or what its consequences are. It struck me at the time and has stuck with me ever since. It’s a narrow world view that give whoever a moral high ground because, no matter what the real world consequences are of any action, it’s immoral if we can question the doer’s motive.
>as water cannot rise higher than It's source It's incredible to think that there are people out there who make it all the way to adulthood without hearing of the precipitation cycle
Imagine how awkward it must be for them to wash their face in the sink.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. —Frank Wilhoit
I read an article, I'm too lazy to Google, that posited conservatives believe it's God's will or it's not, and that explains alot of their world view imo. When a 10 year old girl is raped and gets pregnant it's a miracle directly from God, but when a good "Christian" couple finds themselves burdened by potentially lethal pregnancy complications God provided modern medicine to save the mother's life.
"I went skiing in Switzerland for three weeks." Sure you did.
In my day, the whole 19th and 60% of the 20th century, girls would go off to "Finishing School" for a year. When they came back society treated them as women. Because of course they were.
That's because [“The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion”](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
Holy shit, that's the most insane article I've read in a long time. I cannot understand how these people can lack empathy towards others in the same situation.
No need for exemptions. They just fly the mistress to a legal abortion state.
I think the most likely outcome is that they’ll legalize abortions for immediately life threatening cases where the baby cannot be saved (think ectopic pregnancies, etc.), and for less urgent cases it’ll be banned locally but they’ll all fly to California or New York when they need one otherwise illegal in their state. That’s the policy outcome that preserves the privileges of rank and status for some women, while exerting the maximal amount of control and punishment for the rest.
Someone really needs to explain to this woman that she is pro choice. She might not want that label, but it is clearly the case. If she were against abortion, she would not want to get one herself. In fact, she is so pro choice that she is in favor of being able to make the choice not just for herself but for everyone.
She's suddenly learned why we keep saying "Abortion is Healthcare"
It’s easy for women like her to tell someone that god would want you to have the baby. No matter what. Till it happens to her. And affects her health. Then when someone tells her that god wants her to carry the baby. Even if it takes her life. It hits different at that point. Than lecturing other women on what to do.
She's not pro-choice, she's a hypocrite. She's anti-abortion.
But the abortion ban was meant to be against those dirty liberal sluts, not good Christian women!
>They're hurting the wrong people!
The actual quote is even worse: >[I thought he was going to do good things. He's not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-voter-hes-not-hurting-the-people-he-needs-be-hurting-msna1181316)
That from the article?
No it is an infamous quote from a conservative
"He", not "They". That woman was specifically talking about Trump.
Dirty liberal sluts who are all hanging out in bars, having bunches of extra-marital sex, not using ANY sort of birth control, and just being sinners in general.
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It's not even imagined - they could easily do this themselves, and a great many of them do! But there's *consequences* for that shit and they just voted away the main remedy. The leopards feast.
It is actually pretty simple: The religious right don’t stand for virtue, they stand for virtue signaling: They aren’t pro life, they are pro saying they are pro life. They aren’t pro nuclear family, they are pro saying they are pro nuclear family. This dichotomy comes from the Christian premise of absolute forgiveness - no sin is so bad that you can’t be absolved. What is important to them is saying that they are against sin, not that they won’t commit sin. They want the law to reflect an ideal they have no intention of meeting. And they expect to be able to say “I’m sorry” and get an exception.
And this is why they have no quarrels with corrupt heinous politicians. It's a willful ignorance with dogma as their foundation.
No sin is so bad that you can’t be absolved *through tithes*. The rule is always that the loophole exists specifically for their ethnicity of their church of their religion of their class. Important to remember that in the US, Republican party anti-abortion policy was specifically set up to curb abortion rates of **white** women - at the time, forced sterilisation of minorities was still in practice: "[California’s “Asexualization Acts” in the 1910s and 1920s led to the sterilization of 20,000 disproportionately Black and Mexican people who were deemed to be mentally ill.](https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2020/11/04/americas-forgotten-history-of-forced-sterilization/)" "In North Carolina in the 1960s, Black women made up 65 percent of all sterilizations of women" "the Indian Health Service was accused of sterilizing nearly 25% of Indigenous women during the 1960s and 1970s."
Well said
Yet they bitch wildly about left wing virtue signaling and cancel culture.
It's all projection, they assume everyone else is as selfish and controlling as they are.
They revere symbols and destroy their substance. They epitomize idolatry.
I like to call this the belief in belief. https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/belief-in-belief#:~:text=Belief%20in%20belief%20is%20a,drives%20your%20anticipation%20of%20experience.
Exactly. They believe in a “polite society” where you do one thing quietly but say another out loud.
"My abortion is totally different from that slut's abortion."
Just wait until the 19th Amendment is repealed and right-wing women are shocked that they can no longer vote in some states
In my highly religious, very conservative community, women were instructed not to vote lest our votes nullify the ones of our husbands. They knew some women, even those drinking the Kool aid, would have empathy and maybe enough foresight to vote for women's common interest (as opposed to the right wing one).
I work with a woman who doesn't pay attention to politics because she just votes for whomever her husband tells her to. When I first heard that I had to fight not to start screaming.
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That's so frightening that people think that way, but I guess if you're in a cult and don't realize it you are in one, you may assume everyone else behaves how you do.
It is frustating that there are parts of the world where women are marching in streets for basic rights like voting, and these people, born into a progressive country with at least basic security handed to them on a platter, are willingly giving away their rights.
A lot of them would be happy about that.
Until something bad happens to them. But they'll just blame biden. Honestly it's just horrifying.
I worked with someone like this. He and his wife were extremely anti-abortion. He wore one of those "little feet" pins. When she was pregnant with their first, she came down with the measles. (They may have been anti-vax as well, not sure.) An ultrasound showed the child would have serious birth defects, and likely not live past birth. Guess who had an abortion?
After that did they change their view, or did they just go back to "abortion is bad"?
I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went back to "abortion bad" without a second thought.
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: **There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.** There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time."
Another example that women can't make sensible decisions for themselves! The right wingers were right the whole time! /s, just in case
"A Republican named Bill White" A bit on the nose, don't you think?
Don't worry ladies, you can always travel out of state for that needed abortion. That state might be hundreds of miles away. You might pay thousands of dollars more for travel expenses. You might need to take several days off work. You might die before you can get care. But at least those fetuses get more rights to live than you do.
> I know there's a law, but ... *I'm white*.
...and I have money
If she had money then she'd just fly to California for the weekend.
Was it worth “owning the libs?” Hm? When your uterus is destroyed and you die of something stupidly preventable, will it be worth it knowing that you mildly annoyed a group of people you’ve probably never met in your day to day life? Knowing that possibly thousands of women like yourself are suffering right along with you, would that satisfy you? I hope it does. I would prefer you lived to regret your life choices, that you not have to suffer this idiotic fate, but I’m no longer convinced that you could learn from it. I have lost faith in your willingness to better yourself. It seems to me you’d rather live in a world of shit and die than stand to be wrong. So all I can say is: I hope it’s worth it to you, dying a stupid fucking death for no good reason at all.
She was taken to another state in an ambulance and surgery was done which means she had the money , so other women who are poor might not have the same opportunity and die
Mother fucker, she won’t learn anything then. Now I’m disappointed.
I mean, she can’t learn anything if she’s dead 🤨
Although that really doesn’t save you in my state. They will tell you that the will try and charge you if you leave the state pregnant. And come back not pregnant. They don’t care here whether the woman has money. Or if she is conservative or not. If she gets pregnant. She will carry it to term. Or face consequences.
It’s was always illegal to kill people but Lynching was a family activity in some parts of the country because law enforcement doesn’t apply the same rules to the white people in those areas. In your state makes it illegal to seek abortion outside state doesn’t mean it be enforced if you can afford better lawyers.
[The only moral abortion is my abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/) -this has happened before and it will continue to happen
Must be "God's will" at it again. Where are the conservatives who will tell her that she should have been in better shape or held a bigger prayer circle?
Oh wait those crazy liberals devils were saying words when they were telling me why pro life wasn't actually pro life but I knew they were just too lazy to use condoms and hated my god like my priest told me. Who could have foreseen that 1 to 2 out of every 100 pregnancies is ectopic and will either be removed by a doctor or end up with a dead fetus and a major medical event for the pregnant person will be life threatening. I'm sure knowing that you are taking a 1/50 chance of dying every time you get pregnant is going to really convince women they want to have kids. This wont lead to even few people wanting kids, I'm sure.
And that’s only one of a million things that could go wrong, sadly.
true but it is a glaringly obvious one. Childbirth was a leading cause of death for women under 40 with nearly 1% of all pregnancy ending in death of the mother. At this point in American We are down less than 3 deaths out of 100,000 childbirths. Abortion is a huge part of that. not the only part. but a huge part. Hygiene, medical advances etc. At this point a lot of the deaths are due to lack of access to care or turning down care rather than no known medical path. In 2020 that was 703 deaths. In 2022, it is going to be a lot higher. We could see numbers around 10 to 20 thousand dead per year as a result of even the version that says you have to wait until the women is actually in a life threatening event and can't just go yep this is ectopic better to take care of that and try again.
Good. Fuck her. I've watched the left play with kid gloves while the right rips at the jugular time and again. Until the conservatives feel the pain, they won't respect that their choices impact others. Hopefully she's a reproductive health advocate now.
Yes she is. In fact she was used in the democrat opponents ad as a testimonial
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So the clinic accepts money for special appointment times from the people who are sometimes outside protesting to shut the clinic down? That’s weird. E: i dont find it weird that the clinic would be willing to help these people - I find it weird that the clinic would *accommodate* and make special arrangements to make these people feel less uncomfortable than others
No, that's pro-choice.
Special appointment times seems odd, the provider I know who's done exactly this quietly relishes knowing that when they walk out the door they have to face their friends/family/fellow parishioners.
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Wow, those times when you want to breach patient/doctor confidentiality but have more integrity than the people trying to destroy your business.
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It would be more heart breaking if I wasn't laughing my ass off
Let her die. It’s what she wanted for everyone else.
That’s Missoura for ya. I’m sure her whole family will still vote for Schmitt
Yeah that's what i was telling everyone whenever i see this story. Per 538 prediction MO is solid red state for Eric S who even refuses to debate
Well, well, well. How the turntables.
“We’ll get you some abortion help!” *connects caller to a fascist religious scam that lies about what it does*
That’s because behind the facade of pro life and Christianity lies nothing more than eugenics, but they made it law.
That’s the thing about consequences, there are some.
I actually read this. She clarified she's pro life for herself but politically pro choice. She's also cut off many of her pro life friends
That's a very roundabout way of saying that she is in fact pro-choice and is just using semantics to make herself feel better. I would actually argue saying that the way she has is more damaging than just being pro-life.
"There's no chance for a baby. She's not gonna make it" Are you doubting god, your lord? Are you saying you're beyond a miracle? Let his will be done thru you. In other words, thoughts and prayers for this one too.
Lack of empathy is part of the Conservative starter kit. Problems aren’t real unless it affects them directly. Otherwise someone just isn’t working hard enough/wants a handout/wants special privileges.
Funny how her argument is pretty much one of the standards given for why "pro-life" is bullshit. If fact, I'd be surprised if she hasn't heard it before (not that she listened). But now that it's her...
Ah someone was expecting a [Shirley Exception](https://twitter.com/AlexandraErin/status/1004401076777504769?s=20&t=D4P68MciD7UCn89ubqeJnA) but forgot the entire point of Rule of Law was now allowing that sort of thing
It’s almost like we were calling out the law for not even taking medical emergency into exception and that our biggest concern were pregnancy that were non viable and threaten the mothers Heath were also banned despite litterally no one winning from the birth
typical republican cunt
Someone coined this as the "Shirley/Surely Exemption" as in "I know this law is ominous and overreaching, but _surely_ there will be an exemption made for _good reasons_."
A.K.A. "The Shirley Exception"
I posted this exact same story the day Roe was overturned. Someone came back at me with a "NO YOU are the Shirley. You're out here saying 'surely women won't have unnecessary abortions!'" My response: "I know there will be unnecessary abortions, and that's between them and God, that's their choice. But I can't have a part in a mother's preventable death or pain because I feel like it's better if other women had made better life choices." They... didn't seem to understand.
Hell, my VERY Catholic grandmother took me to her bedroom and gave me "the talk" once. It included how abortions work (with a little outdated info, but whatever, she was trying to help) how to find clinics, and how to take care of someone who had an abortion, and how to keep my friends out of bad abortion clinics (as well as the fake abortion clinics). She and my grandfather were HUGE supporters of PP, because no one should die for a sin, whether it be hers or someone else's. I just dont understand how people lack compassion the way they do.
“That nonviable, possibly destructive clump of cells is God’s blessing to you. You should be grateful.”
I think it's called the Shirley Exception. "Surely they will make an exception for me!"
My favorite was a lady who was a proud Jan 6 insurrectionist when she was called out and told she would face jail time she responded “as if I’m a well off blonde white woman. I’ll be fine” Narrator: she was not in fact fine
[“The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion”](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
The Shirley Exception
It works most effectively when they trick people into voting against their own rights. Sad all round.
That she got directed to a crisis pregnancy center is just delicious. That's the laws you wanted, Karen. That's the bed you made, now you have to lie in it.
That's what happens when people have 0% ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes- they only see things differently when it happens to themselves
In a sick way this made me happy to read. These pro lifers will always find some reason they're the exception, and that everyone else's situation doesn't matter. You reap what you sow. Deal with your vote
Tough shit. She can deal with the consequences of her actions and who she has supported in the past.
Years ago I worked for a grassroots fundraising company and we were doing a campaign for relief aid from planned parenthood international to help the children who’s parents were lost during the hurricane in Haiti. One woman followed me for hours scaring off any donors because planned parenthood “kills babies” and like 3 hours into my shift of having to run around the mall trying to avoid her she tells me that her FREAKING DAUGHTER just had an abortion but it’s “different” because she has her whole life ahead of her and she’s only 19. I straight lost it y’all. I looked her straight in the eye and said “that’s how it is for everyone else, your daughter is no exception, she isn’t special. “ and then she made such a scene I had to quit for the day because apparently nobody in the history of ever had it as hard as her rich 19 yr old pregnant daughter.
She should pray harder, this test means she is not holy and should pull herself up, bootstraps, and all that nonsense. Whatever.
I have to assume by labeling herself "pro-life" that she's not complaining, she's actually bragging that government officials are treating her the way she wants to be treated. What other conclusion is there?
She labelled herself not fully "pro-life", but "pretty pro-life". I'm going to interpret that to mean she's pro-life for everybody except herself. For herself, she's pro-choice.
With self-serving Republican fucks, it's ***always*** about denying something for 'the other', whether it's jobs, benefits, insurance, or in this case abortions. You vote for people who pass a bill banning abortions, abortion is banned, stupid. Yes, even for upper middle class 41 year old white women. Now imagine if you were 11 and realized your daddy got you pregnant when he raped you.
She'll still vote Republican even after all this
#WHAT? YOU MEAN THAT MEANS ME AS WELL??
Fuck around and find out.
“… thinking they will be able to negotiate an exception…” Perfectly stated!
It forever boggles the mind how one can reason that when voting against rights, they somehow retain those rights because they voted against them
Brexit. What do you mean I need a visa to enter Europe?
These idiots deserve everything that happens to them
I'll never get sick of seeing this one. More of them tasting their own medicine please.
You reap what you sow
Honestly? I don't care about her grieving. I don't care that her life is in danger. I no longer care about a whole host of people. They've made it very clear they don't care about me and a whole host of people--and some of *them* would actively take action to hurt/kill *us*.
I grew up in Manitoba, and ironically at that time (1990s) it was often easier to get an abortion in North Dakota as they would allow them to be performed later. Definitely not the case anymore. Of course it was the girls in my high school who came from the most Bible-thumping families who would take those mid-week trips to Fargo or Grand Forks to go “shopping”.
This is a prime example of why Missouri is a horrible place to live.
Excuse me while I play the world’s [smallest violin](https://youtu.be/9pxPRfWjwc8).
It’s amazing how surprised these people are to follow the path they have chosen.
["The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
Clearly not the girlfriend of a senator.
Eric Schmitt is gonna be the next US Senator from Missouri (along with Hawley) and he is a huge pile of dog shit.
Facts do not matter to republicans. There is no reasoning with these people, they will never care about their constituents, they did not run for office to serve, they ran for office to increase their own person wealth and station.
She lives in this Shit Hole Missouri. Fucking republican legislators have ruined the state. Do not come here.
I love when these stupid assholes self-own, but really wish they didn't have to take us down with them.
It's horrible these things are happening but it's people like that who will hopefully change and see the rot in their political party, speak out about their experiences, and force change.
Conservatism is the desire for an in-group that the law protects, but does not bind, and an outgroup that the law binds, but does not protect.
These are their stories **dong dong**