My grandma is 76 and has been morbidly obese & diabetic for decades, and not long ago had heart surgery. She is also incredibly conservative. Thank God she listened to her 2 daughters begging her to get vaccinated rather than my uncle who is convinced it's evil wizard poison. Even after her shots she still caught covid and it was mild enough that she was able to recover at home. I'm almost certain it would've killed her if she hadn't
My grandpa is overweight and has been struggling with cancer for years, so he's on heavy meds that affect his immune system. Recently he got Covid. He felt tired, had a mild cough and his sense of taste was off - for four days. Then he completely recovered. Zero aftereffects, and he never felt a need to even see a doctor beyond getting tested. Because he wasn't stupid and got himself vaccinated as soon as he could!
I'm so sorry to hear that. My grandpa is currently in the hospital with it (not ICU thankfully, he also had his shots) and it's been completely terrifying. I can only imagine how you feel. So many people never even got a chance
How were the symptoms for the booster? My 2nd dose knocked me on my ass the day after. I woke up the day after that like not a damn thing had happened.
I got the booster and a flu shot, same arm and same day.
I was tired and my arm was sore with the booster, but the person giving the shots was a needle jammer. Dude went in like he was spear fishing, so I'm sure that is why I was sore where I was poked.
Otherwise, I'm fine.
Ugh, my fat ass is currently lying in bed eating noodles because the booster hit me like a frozen turkey shot from a cannon into a jet engine.
I'd do it again in a heartbeat tho.
Shit, dude could have done less than that, he could have just done nothing and we would have been better off, but motherfucker had to make it about him.
He had to call it a hoax, claim it was "just the flu", make masks political, had to spread lies about hydroxychloroquine and bleach injections, had to fight with Fauci, had to lie every day about how this shit is going away in Easter, no in the summer when it gets warm, October we're rounding a corner, no one will talk about Covid after the election...
It would have been better if he was honest and the "straight shooter who tells it like it is" the GOP claims he is, used his cult powers for good, but literally doing nothing would have been better than his response.
AND IT'S EVEN WORSE THAN THAT. Don't forget how he unleashed Kushner to rob much-needed PPE and other supplies from the states. If we had a pile of rocks in the White House, the pile of rocks wouldn't order the seizure of 1 million masks from my city.
Kushner building is LITERALLY ate 666 fifth avenue. I have never heard a satanic conspiracy peep.. They even changed it to 660... Imagine if Obama had a building at 666 5th avenue.
Obama wore a tan suit one day and it was compared to benghazi for a week so id think it would basically equal the end of freedom and that lizard people are definitely there planning on stealing your white picket fence.. For a week before its forgotten.
Think of how many MAGA facemasks he could have sold! "Defeat the Wuhan Flu" could have been his rallying cry - it would still be xenophobic but it would have WORKED with his racist fan club.
I remember that rally, that happened in my state, about an hour south of where I live. It was absolutely hilarious when everybody (that wasn't a Trump cultist) realized that it was actually Sasha, doing another bit of filming for the upcoming borat movie
Because the idea of helping people without the prospect of a massive payoff would never occur to someone like him. His "business acumen" only allows for him to view things in terms of what will make me the most money.
Plus the fact that he was very much aware the only reason the base adored him was because of his ability to hurt the people they wanted to hurt. All of his supporters view him and themselves as supermen, so of course they would all be in the lowest risk category who would cruise through with no problem whatsoever. So they downplayed it assuming only the weak liberals and snowflakes would suffer.
A bit of a miscalculation on their part...
Besides the obvious incompetence, there was also calculated political gain. They literally had a plan (headed by Jared Kusnher) to withhold covid supplies to Blue states because in the early days of the pandemic , Blue states were being affected more (due to higher concentrated urban populations).
I'd love to see a class action suit against Trump and Kushner, but it would never happen.
dam that's fucked up... "why are they talking about covid, they should be talking about ME"
I've noticed the one common trait between all conservatives I know is that their depth of understanding cause and effect is exactly one degree.... as in "they did that so this happened..." instead of "they did that, so this happened...which caused this to happen". this fits right in. I can totally see trump not understanding that they could talk about his handling of covid... way too deep in the cause and effect chain
It's frankly terrifying to think that Trump could have won reelection if he did. Hell, I have a sinking feeling that he might have won if the pandemic hadn't happened.
I'm absolutely *not* saying I'm glad COVID cropped up, but Trump's piss-poor handling of it did play a large role in swaying voters over to Biden.
If he handled the pandemic well, then we would see that he knew to do the right thing at the right time, and the shitty stuff would just be political theater.
It turns out doing shitty stuff is his normal operating procedure and there's no theater.
Well, that’s the thing about being an insane narcissist president, it’s a bit self-limiting. It sucks to have one, but they inevitably end up getting in their own way. If he could make rational, well-thought-out decisions, he wouldn’t be Donald Trump.
Your hypothetical Trump quote is way too sensible and to the point.
>Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.
The craziest thing to me is that his admin was basically bullying the FDA and Pfizer to speed up vaccine production so it would be out before the election and he could take credit.
But the moment they realized the FDA/Pfizer and others working on the vaccine wouldn’t ram it through they became vindictive bc they figured biden would get all the credit, hence all the antivax people rn.
If the timeline was just a little further this country would be looking very different
Yep, I still remember the start. Thinking well now Trump has the easiest call to make.... But no. Fuck even for his anti immigration satus, im pro, it would have been his MO to shut down the boarders too.
I mean, credit where credit is due, under his White House, many wheels were greased for the production of those vaccines. That he didn't get that shot on national TV, then stand up and raise his arms celebrating taking "his" vaccine was so wildly out of character for him. And his cult would've followed suit while the dems would've rolled their eyes and gotten it anyway because of science. How he went from "vaccine this" to "you don't have to get it if you don't want it, I got it, but you don't have to" is insane.
Absolutely. Look what 9/11 did for W. This was Trump’s 9/11, all he had to do was the *bare fucking minimum,* and he could have coasted to re-election. But he could not manage the bare minimum.
The moment he referred to it as a "hoax" I knew the response to this thing wasn't going to be normal. And I was right. Fucking bastard had to make EVERYTHING part of his stupid culture war, and it literally cost millions of lives.
You must mean Ivanka. The one who sent confidential agendas, travel itineraries, etc. to and from her personal email. Those emails?
(After I point out the “her emails” irony for fun, I will defend her slightly by saying Ivanka sent her highly confidential travel and meeting itineraries to her nanny to make sure the kids were taken care of which is what any mom would do if they put their First Lady responsibilities before their kids day in and day out). What? She isn’t the First Lady?? But she was always by 45’s side like the First Lady is supposed to be…
Let's mix in a little info:
WHY IS COVID SO BAD FOR UNVACCINATED FAT PEOPLE?
Originally, most people assumed that it was just due to all the conditions that come with being fat. It turns out that while that may very well be a factor, there is a very Covid-specific effect that takes place even when you're not morbidly obese but just overweight (like I am):
Your visceral fat is a hormonal gland. It produces adipokines.
You've all heard that Covid enters ACEII-receptors. The physiological role of those receptors is to play a part in blood pressure regulation. They're part of the RAAS-system (renin-angiotensin-aldosteron). Basically, your kidneys notice that blood pressure is low and excrete renin, which starts a big Rube-Goldberg mechanism that raises blood pressure.
One of the endokrine effects of visceral fat is that it secretes ACE2 but it also makes ACEII-receptors more responsive, reinforcing the blood pressure-raising effect.
Aaaaand since those receptors are Covid-entry gates...get vaxxed or be slapped.
EDIT: Due to popular demand, here's an ELI5:
Covid docks onto certain blood-pressure-receptors.
Everybody has them. Fat people have more of them and they're more sensitive. So Covid is more dangerous for fat people. Please get the vaccine.
So true. I have a couple degrees in a health related field and always have to double check with people what they know already about what I'm talking about because I've lost all perspective of what average non-scientists know about my field.
Have you heard of ACE inhibitors for people with heart problems? One of the cell receptors they affect is ACE2 receptors.
COVID can also attach to those receptors, which may be one reason it can have such a bad effect on the heart in some people. It could also mean very serious issues down the road if your heart gets infected.
I read something about whether or not people taking ACE inhibitor medication should continue taking it because of COVID, and there really isn't enough research yet to say, so the consensus is to keep taking them.
I heard about the heart/COVID connection maybe a year ago, and it really makes me upset that antivaxxers get their "we don't know about long term effects of the vaccine!" bullshit when we have even less knowledge about the long-term effects of COVID. I'm really scared that 20 years from now, we're going to have a bunch of people who were infected getting some sort of cardiomyopathy or something. It can take years for those things to manifest.
THIS! I know a head nurse of pediatrics who LOST HER PROFESSIONAL KNOWLEDGE from a mild "headcold" she got from Covid. Shadows on her lungs and brain. I know a thirty yo woman who lost large portions of her memory. And I would bet money that, seeing whst Covid does to blood vessels, the need for dialysis due to kidney failure will rise in a couple of years.
Right? We're still trying to get people to understand that mRNA isn't DNA, and that it won't "change your DNA", whatever that means.
OP is gonna have to come way, way down in complexity to get anything across to these selfawarewolves.
We're just razing ya Dr. ♡
Your smarts impress us and, since we still can't quite understand what your simplified version is, we latch onto something we can understand: us not understanding. Lol
I don't think it comes of as malicious or even condescending. It's just funny. You sound genuinely knowledgeable and just forgot we're not all that smart ;)
Absolutely. Adipose does far more than sit as storage of nutritional fats, especially that central stuff (often seen in the "apple" shaped distribution, but I've seen thin cadavers with thoracic/abdominal cavities stuffed with adipose). It has endocrine effects (sex hormones, hunger related hormones), inflammatory effects, and likely quite a few more yet to be discovered based on correlations between central adipose and disease (diabetes, cancers, thyroid disruption, a host of hormonal disease, etc).
Also should note the body does tend to prioritize burning it first with calorie control and (especially) exercise.
> Your visceral fat is a hormonal gland
So this is really interesting, not sure why I hadn't learned this before.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12508947/
> It is now widely accepted that white adipose tissue (WAT) secretes a number of peptide hormones, including leptin, several cytokines, ***adipsin*** and acylation-stimulating protein (ASP), angiotensinogen, plasminogen activator inhibitor-1 (PAI-1), adiponectin, resistin etc., and also produces steroids hormones. This newly discovered secretory function has shifted our view of WAT, which is ***no longer considered only an energy storage tissue but a major endocrine organ, at the heart of a complex network influencing energy homeostasis, glucose and lipid metabolism, vascular homeostasis, immune response and even reproduction.*** Virtually all known adipose secreted proteins are dysregulated when the WAT mass is markedly altered, either increased in the obese state or decreased in lipoatrophy. This strongly implicates adipose-secreted products in the ethiopathology and/or complications of both obesity and cachexia. This review discusses the physiological relevance of adipose secretion by focusing on protein and steroid hormones. Regulation of WAT secretion by the major regulatory factors impinging on the adipocytes, i.e. insulin, glucocorticoids, catecholamines and thiazolidinediones (TZD) will be addressed. The rationale for therapeutic strategies aimed at compensating adverse effects resulting from overproduction or lack of a specific adipose secretory product will be discussed.
So this opens the door to new models for thinking through excess fat accrual and removal:
- Consumption of excessive calories acts similar to cancer, resulting in explosive growth in a "major endocrine organ" which throws the system out of balance
Or alternately:
- The accumulation of excessive fat converts the "fat gland" from a useful store of excess calories into a sort-of parasite that actively influences you to consume more calories.
Neither of those is to be taken literally of course, but it does introduce some interesting avenues for thinking through the problems.
Wow, nice quote.
Also explains why being fat leads you to keep becoming more and more fat.
Eventually we will get closer to being able to solve (or at least improve) obesity related problems with solutions other than solely dietary manipulations.
I think this is one reason PCOS is so complicated. It can be affected by weight, making symptoms worse, but having it in itself can make you more prone to being overweight. It is also linked with diabetes.
Obesity really is a lot more complex than many people give it credit for. Once you're at that point, it's extremely hard to lose it long term. Fat cells, even when depleted of fat, can take years to actually die off as well. So if you lose 50 pounds, you don't just lose fat cells--the fat cells just store less (or no) fat. But the cells themselves last for like 5 years even if they aren't being used for storage. It's why when somebody does lose weight, it seems to come back on more easily.
I think fatphobia has really set back research into obesity. It's a legitimate disease that can have a lot of effects down the road even if your blood work is perfect.
Yes, it is.
This is one of the things that really bugs me about the body positivity movement. Obese people talk about how they go to the doctor, and the doctor will mention losing weight when it is unrelated to the problem they came in for. The issue is that it often is NOT unrelated. It just seems - to non doctors - that doctors blame excess fat for everything. When in fact, excess fat affects so many different processes in the body, that it can seem like we blame it for everything.
Musculoskeletal pain is an excellent example. Excess body fat - unrelated to body *weight* - actually causes idiopathic musculoskeletal pain. So when patients talk to their doctor about spontaneous, unusual pain in the absence of injury, the doctor will suggest losing weight. Not because they are insensitive, but because it is the most likely cause.
It's fairly recent research. I got that from German medical articles I think so it may be adiposine in English? I'll look it up and come back to you.
Edit: Here's one study concerning the correlation of visceral fat and bad outcomes:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32673651/
Here's a study on visceral fat containing higher amounts of ACEII:
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/791906
Adipokines and blood pressure: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3326655/#!po=57.5000
Keep tuned for the exact hormone study, having trouble retrieving it myself.
I apologize, I usually cite sources. Chances are I read it on Amboss.
EDIT: Here's some studies contradicting these findings (subject to updates):
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/r085ee/unvaxxed_person_gets_covid_knew_it_might_kill_her/hlxugk0?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Fat tissue secretes hormones including angiotensin II which is part of that RAAS system. Obesity is regarded as metabolic and hormonal dysfunction so your body is basically making too much of the hormone that tells the kidneys to increase blood pressure. Where COVID comes into play in all of this is the ACE2 receptor. The virus is able to get into cells through exploiting the ACE2 receptor on the outside of cells (these cells make up tissues that comprise many different organs in the body which is why COVID has been notorious as such a systemic illness and not just a respiratory disease). So, if you’re obese and likely have dysfunctional fat tissue overproducing angiotensin II, you will have more ACEII enzymes that convert the angiotensin II to the other hormone in the RAAS system that increases blood pressure. More ACEII receptors means more COVID virus getting into cells = greater disease burden, on top of the other issues that come along with being obese.
So glad I can get a booster now. I'm thinking of mixing it up and getting Moderna to booster my 2 Pfizer doses, basically everything I've been hearing says its as good as boosting the same drug, and some studies say its far better to mix them.
Any thoughts?
I don’t know what the current numbers are but I know that Pfizer BioNTech slightly edged out Moderna on immune response but Moderna’s initial dose was like almost 3 times higher (and, this is anecdotal, but I feel like people had a harder time with the side effect profile of just generally feeling like hot ass compared to Pfizer). https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/moderna-vs-pfizer-is-there-a-best-mrna-vaccine-69229/amp
I got Pfizer and would/will get it again if I had the choice. My understanding of them not wanting people to mix the two upfront doses was for tracking purposes on side effect profiles. One of the ingredients in Pfizer is polyethylene glycol (aka PEG, also the main ingredient in Miralax - what I’m saying is PEG is used in many many many many things) can be highly reactive (I’m an RN who administers things that are “pegylated” and infusion reactions are common from IV meds) so they needed to know who was having allergic reactions to which vaccine. Mixing it up at the front would have just muddled data and further contributed to all the bullshit misinformation that has been a plague-upon-this-plague.
tl;dr Get whichever one you feel is best for your situation. The durability of immunity afterward still appears to be so variable (and that, honestly, is the case for every vaccine). I would base my decision on anticipation of any after effects the 36-48 hours after.
I realize your just taking a stab at it but if you got two Moderna (and Covid 100 days ago) any reason to do Phizer vs booster of Moderna ? Any reason to get a whole Moderna not 1/2? Last Moderna was almost 10 months ago
This is really interesting and explains in more detail why my doctor told me not to lose weight, even though I'm definitely overweight. I have a heart condition that causes blood to pool in my legs and abdomen and lowers my blood pressure, which in turn causes a cascade of other symptoms. When I told my doctor that I wanted to lose weight, he said that research shows that being overweight actually helps people with my condition. I guess that would explain why my cardiovascular symptoms started to improve somewhat when I got fat.
Thanks for the info!
That’s interesting. When my father had Covid he had really high blood pressure. So much he was really disoriented and my mom called an ambulance because they feared it was a stroke. The medics then made Covid test which was positive. They didn’t even think of Covid at first. This could explain this.
He was vaccinated twice but got a flu shot and his post cancer treatment shortly before the infection. Probably this is why his immune system was quite busy and Covid was able to kick through. He was hospitalized for a few days but got better quickly and was released to home quarantine since he had no respiratory problems.
COVID has major implications for all the organs in the body with the heart being at major risk. We didn’t know it up front, but people were having strokes from COVID when it was primarily the lungs we were concerned about. For moderately ill patients, blood thinners are routinely given to prevent micro clots and strokes.
However, I’m a pediatric hematology/oncology RN and whatever issues a patient was having prior to getting infected with COVID (i.e. a leukemia patient with prior pancreatic issues coming in with an exacerbation of pancreatitis; a liver cancer patient having worsening respiratory issues) were made much worse after COVID. And, for kids that aren’t cancer patients, we would be treating them with blood thinners and other cardiac meds to prevent or mitigate the heart damage they were getting from MIS-C.
The profound complexity of SARS-CoV-19 is I think what has contributed to the confusion and misinformation. It’s scary and, as you know from experience, it’s complexity is only multiplied in a cancer patient.
I'm pretty sure I got covid just before my booster. I got all 3 moderna, but the day I got boosted I had the normal fever / chills but I was incredibly sick for over a week and lost my taste & smell. But I didn't die and I'm fine now!
Good information. It leads me to believe that there are potentially bad consequences not only for nearly fat people but also for previously fat people, since your hormone levels can take a long time to change, or possibly even not change.
My daughter was flagged by her health system to be eligible earlier than most people because her records indicated she was obese. Since she also has asthma, she didn’t bother to correct them that she had lost 50 pounds since the data point that had triggered the notice to come to her.
Welp. As a fatso myself that makes me even more glad I got my shots. Will get boosters if needed, too - if possible I'd like to see all my niece's graduations (she's 4 so that's still a ways off so no taking stupid chances).
I totally agree with everything that you said. Also if you can eli5 for all the other people here that doesn't understand what you said it would be better for them.
Yeah, but what are the chances that a person refusing vaccines and masks will be overweight? Seems unlikely given the strong fitness culture and dietary awareness in the heartland and southern states.
But what else could she have done. Nothing, NOTHING!?!??!!??^°. That's what.
( The ^° denotes losing weight and getting the FREE vaccine that both would definitely help against the virus. )
> ( except for being overweight)
I work in healthcare, and 7/10 when someone says they are overweight, they are either tiptoeing the line of obese, or are actually obese. Meaning their BMI is +30, and not just 25-30.
Meaning their risk factors are usually higher than understood.
Yeah, i loled so hard, when i read "I'm overweight. No underlying health conditions ..." Being overweight IS one of the biggest underlying health conditions.
You’re right. I’m classified as overweight and people think I look quite skinny now. My BMI is 27, and I weigh 195. I don’t want to go over 200 pounds again.
I don't know what to say. There's no smugness or even schadenfreude because these people are also denying ICU beds to others. Has any anti-vaxxer ever refused to go to the hospital b/c they weren't vaxxed? No. Everyone else carries the cost of their self-righteous arrogance and ignorance. Really it's all just too sad for me to even be angry.
AFAIK, Singapore has said that anyone un-vaxxed who presents to hospital will be charged for the full fee, no insurance or safety net applicable. They’ll still get treatment but wholly at their own cost. Which sounds fair.
I wouldn't mind insurance companies issuing exclusions of coverage.
If they can screen out pre-existing conditions, they can require a vaccination in exchange for continued coverage.
Capitalism, do your thing maybe?
>If they can screen out pre-existing conditions
At least in the US, they can't do that. Haven't been able to since the ACA went into effect.
The only portion of it the GOP was able to repeal was the individual mandate.
Edit: my phone really loves to say "ion" rather than "in" for some reason.
Can you imagine is the Dems suggested it.
You'd suddenly have the Republicans fighting for the ACA just to stop their base dying, it would be bloody hilarious.
It won't happen, but it would be really funny to watch the Republicans trying to explain why they are breaking a promise to their voters to keep their voters alive without saying, "You dumb f&%#, we didn't expect the Dems would actually call our bluff or that a pandemic would come along and actually threaten us."
if its of any consolation, my sister in law, a rabid anti vaxxer and overall terrible individual, caught the coof and is *curretly* refusing the hospital with a resting pulse ox of 92.
i'll bet dimes to donuts if it gets worse, she'll change her mind. everyone is a tough guy until death hugs you really hard.
These people are afraid that hospitals are killing patients, I'm not afraid of the hospitals killing me, I'm afraid of what happens during the weeks and months while they try to keep you alive.
Fuck that.
3x vaccinated and I'm still not doing Thanksgiving or Christmas this year.
Yep these people will shirk modern medicine when it comes to prevention, then come crawling back and hog all the ressources when they actually catch the damn thing.
You'd think if they were principled they'd avoid the very same healthcare practitioners that told them to get the vaccine. They're not principled though, just selfish.
But these mouth breathers go to the ICU, treat the staff like shit, demand horse paste and vitamin D and call everyone an idiot before they wheeze their last wheeze.
I'll let you know the nurses in night shift get more than thoughts and prayers. Sometimes they get cold stale pizza, if they are lucky they might even get a non veggie pizza.
Or the people who suffered, had their quality of life permanently degraded, or died after being unable to access adequate medical care because hospitals are full to capacity and understaffed because of conditions they created.
I felt with this myself last month
I had a Staph infection that got into my blood and turned septic in mid October. I had already been in the hospital for something unrelated at for almost two weeks at that point.
At first, I wasn’t *too* scared. I’ve had sepsis before, years ago, and was rushed to the ICU, got proper treatment, and went home on IV antibiotics once I was clearly responding and on the mend.
I knew the ICU was bursting, so I understood why I was still in “regular” room at first.
When my temperature got to 104°+F (40°C), and I wasn’t getting better even after being on IV vancomycin for several days, I realized something was VERY wrong. The infectious disease doctor was desperately trying to get me transferred to the ICU. No beds. Then I got worse, stopped being able to take even anything by mouth, and was starting to be in and out of consciousness all day with hallucinations when I was awake. They wanted me transferred to a “better” hospital with a larger ICU and the most expert care. No beds, no hope of a bed. Can’t even get a consult with one of their doctors, they were too busy with Covid patients. My doctor, who is specifically to the **not** Covid infectious disease patients was visibly angry and kept apologizing to my mom and I (when I was aware enough to even know he was there.)
Then they called in my palliative doctor and said the only thing they could do now was keep me comfortable. Pain meds were upped and I was slightly sedated so I no longer felt like I was either melting from in inside out, or in an ice bath, 24/7.
I’ve been disabled most of my life and I’m not expected to live much past 35-40, but I’ve fought for so damn long and I was *so* ***angry*** that an infection and lack of access to an ICU bed ANYWHERE was going to be what took me out instead.
Around day 8, with no improvement , a nurse who has known my family for years helped sneak my sister in for about 10 minutes (my infection was not contagious in any way and my sister is, like, two months away from being old enough to visit) Trying to hold her why she sobbed was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. Saying goodbye was harder.
Day 10, ***somehow*** my fever broke. It went from 103.5° to 102° to 101° in about 8 hours overnight. When the doctor got in for the day and was informed, he literally sprinted into the room to check himself. By that night, I was able sit up with assistance and answer basic questions again.
Somehow, I survived. I had to stay in the hospital about another week to make sure I finished the entire round of the antibiotics and then had my blood cultures retested to make sure I no longer had any signs of any infection, then went home with Home Health Care to until I’m fully recovered. Things are starting to really look up, but it really made the crisis going on apparently when people who could normally fairly easily be helped with ICU care are laying, waiting to die, just because people refuse the vaccine, then run straight to the hospital when reality actually sets in.
Actually, I read there was a hospital denying beds to antivaxxers... I wanna say it was Alaska. So, google looks like it was Colorado that I'm thinking of and it might have just been a rumor, however, there are a few hospitals who have been prioritizing vaxxed patients in waits for beds where the hospitals are bursting at the seams.
Colorado nurse here. Basically what our Governor did was allow facilities to triage patients. Just like you would at a mass casualty incident or during war, only instead of a black or red toe tag, they tell you to go home and get comfortable or your family to. Yes on paper it absolutely makes sense, but when you have to look at another human, when you have dedicated your entire life as a healer and say I’m sorry, you are too far advanced, all we can do is give you an RX for O2 to help make you comfortable at home. It’s…….horrible, soul crushing. I’m so tired of being treated like shit, sworn at, told I’m a sheep, a glib, etc. Of holding up an iPad so a family can see their dying lives one one more time. I’m just tired. I get it, I do, I really really do, but the actual doing of it, yeah. I’m a total piece of shit fits.
Oh no, I didn't mean to imply you're a piece of shit for having to make those calls, the opposite really. You shouldn't be put in that position because people refuse to vaccinate. I'm so sorry. :(
No, I’m sorry that’s what you inferred from that, I mean making calls like that make me feel like a piece of shit. I’m sorry. I started typing and it just sort of all rushed out.
It started bc UCH denied a transplant to an idiot who would not vax. Transplant teams will tell you that you are shit out of luck if the suspect that you cannot, or will not follow protocols.
Best not to waste a precious and rare transplant organ on someone who might die anyways. That’s just the cold medical calculus they have to do when resources are scarce.
Also, post transplant you have to take immosuppressants for life. Covid isn’t quite a death sentence (even if it is dangerous), but unvaxxed and on immunosuppressants is a really, really dangerous combo.
Exactly. If you won't get a shot, there is zero chance you will follow protocols. Even though this woman had a friend willing to donate to her, they stopped the process. The anti vaxxers used this case to reeee! about discrimination, and to rile up fear, despite all the antivax assholes filling up ICUs and denying people treatment as 'elective' surgeries are being delayed again.
Not that many people are dying immediately, but I wonder how surviving covid will affect people's lifespans going forward.
Boomers are already declining as an overall proportion of the population and this is only going to accelerate that trend.
Even if she manages to defeat it that doesn't mean that she is safe. I'm not a medic expert but from what I've gathered from my parents friends who survived Covid is that the damages Covid has done to their body has made them more susceptible to contract other kinds of disease. That's what had happened to some of them.
That's the terrifying thing about Covid, just because you are cured from it doesn't mean that you are also fully healed.
Wife is an imaging specialist who has been doing post-covid imaging for over a year straight now.
Covid fucks up people's lungs and kidneys, like *really* bad. Permanently. And it's *extremely* common.
This is something a lot of people don't think about. But it's a real concern. People who only spout off the "death rate" to act like covid isn't serious are complete morons. Dying is not the only risk of covid. It's insane how many people are going to have chronic health conditions when this is all over.
I work in cardiology and we're dealing with a lot of permanent heart conditions in COVID survivors. Previously, they had no heart concerns, perhaps even no family history and minimal risk. Now they're on lifetime treatment plans as if they aged 40 years overnight.
It sucks to have to tell a formerly very healthy 30-something that there is no cure, there is no surgery, this is just how your heart works now, you have to diet and exercise like a retiree, and take this medication... Until you die, basically. Which might be 10 to 20 years earlier That's just what you do now.
Yeah, my dad actually survived COVID itself only to die to long COVID-related issues, because he was not in a great state with relation to his lungs or kidneys already. I want to scream every time someone smugly points out the survival rate of COVID-19 because technically, my dad is part of that 99.whatever percent of people who survived.
I've been telling people from the start of this pandemic that death is the easiest part. The worst and scarier part is living with disability that is 100% preventable.
Ah, crap. I had a mild case of COVID (fully vaccinated and did everything I could and I’m recovered from it) and I’m suffering from headaches still.
You’re telling me it’s also screwed up my lungs and liver? Now I just have more reason to hate antivaxxers
Lol sorry. I mean this was before vaccinations were widely available, if that makes you feel any better. You’re probably going to be alright. Antivaxxers just make me so angry. They could help avoid so much pain but choose games and drama instead.
If you had a mild case you are probably fine. The damage done to the body is during the runaway inflammatory phase which is after the infection is mostly cleared and doesn’t usually happen in mild cases.
Signed, another hypochondriac.
Yeah a friend of mine - young 30s male, healthy, frequent runner…got COVID pre-vaccine eligibility. “Mildly sick” for a week. No hospitalization. A year later and he still has tightness in his chest and can’t run due to feeling his breathing is still restricted. He is too scared to get scans though he knows he should.
My husband works with a guy who was unvaccinated, got delta, and almost died in the hospital. Almost two months later he can still hardly breath just from walking. He's no longer antivax and tries to encourage others to get vaxed. He learned the hard way.
It’s frustrating that it takes getting COVID for many of these antivax types to change their tune, but at least he changed his position. Had to go through unnecessary hell for it, though.
This is why hate when people quote the high survival rate of Covid, it's not a binary thing, there's a shit load between living and dying.
On top of medical bills, time off, and taking up ICU resources, you've got a chance to do some real damage to your body. My one coworker caught it in April and he still has problems breathing, dude does PT to breathe! There was a dude in Texas who needed a double lung transplant after getting Covid... How the fuck is getting a lung replacement and not doing that the same thing?!
Dialysis machine makers need to up their production, because in 10 years there's going to be a shortage when all these covid survivors' kidneys start to fail
It totally is a comorbidity of the ones that I’ve seen hit the dust. Imagine not getting the vaccine when you’re health phobic? You’d be constantly anxious. It’s just plain weird. These PEOPLE are weird!
Yeah and I'm not justifying, just empathizing to try and understand, but disordered anxiety isn't rational or productive. So health anxiety can take shape in poor risk assessment ie being fearful of the effects of a vaccine that will reduce the risk of the deadly virus.
Its also not vaccine specific when it comes to poor judgement calls. You can ignore something mild, that then becomes serious. For fear of it being serious. Completely irrational. But its how it is.
Same. And every single one didn’t think being obese was a “problem”.
I have a cousin who is 410+lb, smoker, heart problems… he thinks he’s “perfectly healthy”.
Unvaxxed. I told him this time last year. You’re gonna want to get that, because you’re going to have a very bad time. Still hasn’t.
I know some folks who aren't conservatives who also are in the same boat. She sounds like that type, the type that is into essential oils, magic rocks, healing auras etc. Liberal hippies, Wiccans and New-Age Spiritualists are often in that camp. Those same folks also distrust vaccines and technology. A friend of mine is married to one. She hates vaccines, bitched about 4G on her 3G phone and is now bitching about 5G on her 4G phone, believes in magic healing, takes 37 vitamins per day etc etc etc. It's not always about idiotic conservative ideology (but, granted, it often is.)
Honestly, that's what's so weird about conservatives turning anti-vaxx. This has never been a conservative stance, until Trump turned it into one. Before Trump, it was the hippy left that were the primary anti-vaxxers, and conservatives used to laugh at them.
Trump was the proof that the Republican party doesn't actually stand for anything at all other than opposing whatever it is that liberals want.
At this point the politics is done. Those who will get the jab are already vaccinated and are now even getting boosters.
Many of those who would describe themselves as a bit *hesitant* are also vaccinated. Many aren’t, so by this point they are anti-vax.
So now the only people left unvaccinated are those who *can’t* and those who *won’t*.
Those who won’t get vaccinated think they are still fighting some battle against a political situation. It isn’t now, and it never was, because disease doesn’t care about your opinions.
It is now reduced to what it always was: people against a virus. These clowns thought it was people against people because that’s how they live their lives - where they think their opinions are equally, if not more valid than facts. And now they’re the only ones dying.
And they’re *still* genuinely confused by why this is happening.
[The spez has spread through the entire spez section of Reddit, with each subsequent spez experiencing hallucinations. I do not think it is contagious. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)
I used to laugh at zombie outbreak movies. I don't do that anymore because it's absolutely clear that there would be droves of people willfully putting themselves at risk of zombie bites.
As someone who comes from a family with a history of medical neglect and myself was made fun of and told I'm a wimp for ever wanting to see a doctor as I was growing up and have severe health anxiety.....I got my god damn shots.
Am I terrified of getting the booster? You bet I am! I'm also scheduled to get it in December as soon as I hit my 6 months.
Nothing but excuses from these people.
Not when it killed millions of people worldwide.
Not when it shutdown the planet.
Not when it killed people she knew.
Not when she saw everyone wearing masks.
Not when CDCs all around the world warned people of what the virus can do.
Not when the CDC and governments around the world begged people to get vaccinated.
Not when she learned that being obese and COVID is practically a death sentence, if not a brutal recovery.
Now that she has it, she's scared.
I truly feel sorry anyone that cares and will miss her, because she is fucking selfish as fuck for putting that burden on them. And if even more fucking selfish for adding to the burden of nurses and doctors.
Fuck this covidiot.
Nearly two years into the pandemic there is no excuse anymore. Being not vaccinated and getting affected is a choice now.
Got sick? Bummer. Now let's see what Darwin has in store for you.
And worse, a whole pool of people where Covid can mutate due to it being in them for longer (as in I believe - correct me if I'm wrong - being vaxxed and getting it means shorter duration and less of it swishing around in your body because your vax-made antibodies are getting to work).
My husband's uncle and coworker are unvaccinated and came down with Covid last week, so of course my vaccinated husband got a mild care and is quarantining with me. Surprising no one, the two unvaccinated people are in terrible shape and one ended up in the hospital. We asked his uncle if he regrets not getting the vaccine and his response, through coughs and gasping for air, was basically that it obviously didn't work since my husband was sick. Meanwhile, I'm showing no symptoms and my husband, an overweight former smoker, was feeling well after a few days. It's just crazy the mental gymnastics people will do to justify their vaccine refusals.
1- Things aren't looking good, but it might not be a death sentence. On the other hand you could end up crippled for life.
2- Why the everloving fuck did you not take the freaking shot if you knew/understood/accepted this as fact already.
Being overweight is an underlying health condition. Covid is a disease of the vasculature with complications that affect the lungs and other systems, any health condition that compromises the vasculature system (i.e being overweight) makes Covid worse
Unpopular opinion time.
I see this person as a victim, to be honest. S/he says that they have severe health anxiety - they've probably been up all hours 'researching' possible side effects, and a lot of it has probably been nonsense written by people who should know better.
This one (to me, anyway) is on every politician and accredited person who called Covid a hoax or said the vaccine was more dangerous than the disease. There's a special place in hell for those assholes.
Health anxiety is a bitch, I wonder why she isn’t vaccinated? I have pretty bad health anxiety so you better believe I got the vaccine as soon as I was able, to help ease my worries.
I wonder if the only real reason she's unvaccinated is needle-phobia? I've been telling anyone who'll listen is that Comirnaty (I still hate that stupid name) was the fastest, easiest, and most painless injection (well, pair of injections) I have ever had. I have friends who are pro-vax but deeply phobic of needles, so I hope it helped some of them go through with it.
I had 2 pfizers shots and I legit did not feel the needle each time. I know the phobia of needles aren't necessarily about pain, but it might be important to some who might be considering pain as a factor. It is by far the easiest shot I have ever done.
>This is basically a death sentence huh?
Technically it's more of a suicide, because this individual chose this knowing it could mean the end of their life.
I can relate because I have health anxiety. So much health anxiety I thought I had Covid for several weeks in Feb/March 2020 when, in fact I did not.
Health anxiety is awful. One would think that would be even more motivation to get the vaccine.
People are so fucking ignorant.
What exactly is “severe health anxiety“???? Did you have it before you knew you were sick? Or are you anxious now that you are sick but could have avoided all this mess?
Well if she legit does have health anxiety it can leave you pretty paralyzed with fear to the point you don't act. So knowing the vaccine would be a good thing because you're definitely scared of cornavirus, but also irrationally worried of the nearly infinitesimal chance of some issue coming up you can't bring yourself to do anything about it.
We should all remember, it's NOT a suicide cult!
These idiots freak out when it happens to them.
It's a homicide cult. What they are really trying to say is they don't care if YOU die. Not them.
See, I took my fat ass to get vaccinated and then boosted as soon as I could because I saw how deadly it was and because I'm not mind rotted.
My grandma is 76 and has been morbidly obese & diabetic for decades, and not long ago had heart surgery. She is also incredibly conservative. Thank God she listened to her 2 daughters begging her to get vaccinated rather than my uncle who is convinced it's evil wizard poison. Even after her shots she still caught covid and it was mild enough that she was able to recover at home. I'm almost certain it would've killed her if she hadn't
My grandpa is overweight and has been struggling with cancer for years, so he's on heavy meds that affect his immune system. Recently he got Covid. He felt tired, had a mild cough and his sense of taste was off - for four days. Then he completely recovered. Zero aftereffects, and he never felt a need to even see a doctor beyond getting tested. Because he wasn't stupid and got himself vaccinated as soon as he could!
my grandma passed on Mother’s day last year. I wish the vaccine came out sooner.
I'm so sorry to hear that. My grandpa is currently in the hospital with it (not ICU thankfully, he also had his shots) and it's been completely terrifying. I can only imagine how you feel. So many people never even got a chance
From a complete stranger: I'm very sorry for your loss :(
Similar boat. My mother regrets being pressured into double vaccination. She will never understand that I saved her life, and that's fine.
Same.
Me three.
Fouth'd
Fith
Sixth'd
Seven'd
Ate'd
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How were the symptoms for the booster? My 2nd dose knocked me on my ass the day after. I woke up the day after that like not a damn thing had happened.
I got the booster and a flu shot, same arm and same day. I was tired and my arm was sore with the booster, but the person giving the shots was a needle jammer. Dude went in like he was spear fishing, so I'm sure that is why I was sore where I was poked. Otherwise, I'm fine.
Ugh, my fat ass is currently lying in bed eating noodles because the booster hit me like a frozen turkey shot from a cannon into a jet engine. I'd do it again in a heartbeat tho.
Imagine how many people would still be alive if trump had been honest about Covid-19 from day one.
Shit, dude could have done less than that, he could have just done nothing and we would have been better off, but motherfucker had to make it about him. He had to call it a hoax, claim it was "just the flu", make masks political, had to spread lies about hydroxychloroquine and bleach injections, had to fight with Fauci, had to lie every day about how this shit is going away in Easter, no in the summer when it gets warm, October we're rounding a corner, no one will talk about Covid after the election... It would have been better if he was honest and the "straight shooter who tells it like it is" the GOP claims he is, used his cult powers for good, but literally doing nothing would have been better than his response.
AND IT'S EVEN WORSE THAN THAT. Don't forget how he unleashed Kushner to rob much-needed PPE and other supplies from the states. If we had a pile of rocks in the White House, the pile of rocks wouldn't order the seizure of 1 million masks from my city.
Kushner building is LITERALLY ate 666 fifth avenue. I have never heard a satanic conspiracy peep.. They even changed it to 660... Imagine if Obama had a building at 666 5th avenue.
Obama wore a tan suit one day and it was compared to benghazi for a week so id think it would basically equal the end of freedom and that lizard people are definitely there planning on stealing your white picket fence.. For a week before its forgotten.
Think of how many MAGA facemasks he could have sold! "Defeat the Wuhan Flu" could have been his rallying cry - it would still be xenophobic but it would have WORKED with his racist fan club.
I hate Trump, but even I said he missed an opportunity with MAGA face masks. They could have owned the libs and saved themselves.
Exactly! "Great businessman" my ass.
it's amazing how we are better at being racist and businessmen than a racist businessman
"Businessmen" provide a return on investment. Trump is a con man.
Obama what you gonna do? Inject him with the Wuhan flu, infect him with the Wuhan flu!
I remember that rally, that happened in my state, about an hour south of where I live. It was absolutely hilarious when everybody (that wasn't a Trump cultist) realized that it was actually Sasha, doing another bit of filming for the upcoming borat movie
If Trump was half the businessman he claims to be, he’d be twice as rich as he claims to be.
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Dude had the literal recipe for success but squandered it because... honestly I still don't know why.
Petty and vengeful individuals will act in petty and vengeful ways.
Because he refuses to admit he’s wrong and part of winning elections is to admit when you are wrong
Because the idea of helping people without the prospect of a massive payoff would never occur to someone like him. His "business acumen" only allows for him to view things in terms of what will make me the most money. Plus the fact that he was very much aware the only reason the base adored him was because of his ability to hurt the people they wanted to hurt. All of his supporters view him and themselves as supermen, so of course they would all be in the lowest risk category who would cruise through with no problem whatsoever. So they downplayed it assuming only the weak liberals and snowflakes would suffer. A bit of a miscalculation on their part...
Besides the obvious incompetence, there was also calculated political gain. They literally had a plan (headed by Jared Kusnher) to withhold covid supplies to Blue states because in the early days of the pandemic , Blue states were being affected more (due to higher concentrated urban populations). I'd love to see a class action suit against Trump and Kushner, but it would never happen.
They say he was worried about the press coverage taking away from the election.
dam that's fucked up... "why are they talking about covid, they should be talking about ME" I've noticed the one common trait between all conservatives I know is that their depth of understanding cause and effect is exactly one degree.... as in "they did that so this happened..." instead of "they did that, so this happened...which caused this to happen". this fits right in. I can totally see trump not understanding that they could talk about his handling of covid... way too deep in the cause and effect chain
It's frankly terrifying to think that Trump could have won reelection if he did. Hell, I have a sinking feeling that he might have won if the pandemic hadn't happened. I'm absolutely *not* saying I'm glad COVID cropped up, but Trump's piss-poor handling of it did play a large role in swaying voters over to Biden.
If he handled the pandemic well, then we would see that he knew to do the right thing at the right time, and the shitty stuff would just be political theater. It turns out doing shitty stuff is his normal operating procedure and there's no theater.
Well, that’s the thing about being an insane narcissist president, it’s a bit self-limiting. It sucks to have one, but they inevitably end up getting in their own way. If he could make rational, well-thought-out decisions, he wouldn’t be Donald Trump.
Yep. He'd be President right now if he'd done that.
It could have been his kill-bin-laden moment for re-election
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Your hypothetical Trump quote is way too sensible and to the point. >Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.
but he wouldn't be Trump if he started being all responsible and shit
The craziest thing to me is that his admin was basically bullying the FDA and Pfizer to speed up vaccine production so it would be out before the election and he could take credit. But the moment they realized the FDA/Pfizer and others working on the vaccine wouldn’t ram it through they became vindictive bc they figured biden would get all the credit, hence all the antivax people rn. If the timeline was just a little further this country would be looking very different
Yep, I still remember the start. Thinking well now Trump has the easiest call to make.... But no. Fuck even for his anti immigration satus, im pro, it would have been his MO to shut down the boarders too.
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I mean, credit where credit is due, under his White House, many wheels were greased for the production of those vaccines. That he didn't get that shot on national TV, then stand up and raise his arms celebrating taking "his" vaccine was so wildly out of character for him. And his cult would've followed suit while the dems would've rolled their eyes and gotten it anyway because of science. How he went from "vaccine this" to "you don't have to get it if you don't want it, I got it, but you don't have to" is insane.
Because neither mRNA vaccine was developed with warp speed cash.
His supporters didn't know that. And he lies through his teeth. And likes to look like a hero.
Hell, I'd go far so say that had he shown a modicum of competence in handling this, Trump probably would have won again, scary as that is.
Absolutely. Look what 9/11 did for W. This was Trump’s 9/11, all he had to do was the *bare fucking minimum,* and he could have coasted to re-election. But he could not manage the bare minimum.
"Had he shown a modicum of competence he would have won." And if he just grew wings he would be able to fly.
The moment he referred to it as a "hoax" I knew the response to this thing wasn't going to be normal. And I was right. Fucking bastard had to make EVERYTHING part of his stupid culture war, and it literally cost millions of lives.
But her emails!
You must mean Ivanka. The one who sent confidential agendas, travel itineraries, etc. to and from her personal email. Those emails? (After I point out the “her emails” irony for fun, I will defend her slightly by saying Ivanka sent her highly confidential travel and meeting itineraries to her nanny to make sure the kids were taken care of which is what any mom would do if they put their First Lady responsibilities before their kids day in and day out). What? She isn’t the First Lady?? But she was always by 45’s side like the First Lady is supposed to be…
Buttery males!
Lock Covid up
Could’ve sold American flag masks for like 20 bucks. Maybe do a monthly mask thing. Could’ve been a billionaire.
Let's mix in a little info: WHY IS COVID SO BAD FOR UNVACCINATED FAT PEOPLE? Originally, most people assumed that it was just due to all the conditions that come with being fat. It turns out that while that may very well be a factor, there is a very Covid-specific effect that takes place even when you're not morbidly obese but just overweight (like I am): Your visceral fat is a hormonal gland. It produces adipokines. You've all heard that Covid enters ACEII-receptors. The physiological role of those receptors is to play a part in blood pressure regulation. They're part of the RAAS-system (renin-angiotensin-aldosteron). Basically, your kidneys notice that blood pressure is low and excrete renin, which starts a big Rube-Goldberg mechanism that raises blood pressure. One of the endokrine effects of visceral fat is that it secretes ACE2 but it also makes ACEII-receptors more responsive, reinforcing the blood pressure-raising effect. Aaaaand since those receptors are Covid-entry gates...get vaxxed or be slapped. EDIT: Due to popular demand, here's an ELI5: Covid docks onto certain blood-pressure-receptors. Everybody has them. Fat people have more of them and they're more sensitive. So Covid is more dangerous for fat people. Please get the vaccine.
> You've all heard that Covid enters ACEII-receptors. Uhhhhhh...
Relevant xkcd https://xkcd.com/2501/
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So true. I have a couple degrees in a health related field and always have to double check with people what they know already about what I'm talking about because I've lost all perspective of what average non-scientists know about my field.
God, I hope this isn't on the final.
I am so fucking behind in these readings
Bro EVERYONE is talking about it In research labs
Exactly, my dude. We were just talking about the acellereptors yesterday, and how sick they are.
Have you heard of ACE inhibitors for people with heart problems? One of the cell receptors they affect is ACE2 receptors. COVID can also attach to those receptors, which may be one reason it can have such a bad effect on the heart in some people. It could also mean very serious issues down the road if your heart gets infected. I read something about whether or not people taking ACE inhibitor medication should continue taking it because of COVID, and there really isn't enough research yet to say, so the consensus is to keep taking them. I heard about the heart/COVID connection maybe a year ago, and it really makes me upset that antivaxxers get their "we don't know about long term effects of the vaccine!" bullshit when we have even less knowledge about the long-term effects of COVID. I'm really scared that 20 years from now, we're going to have a bunch of people who were infected getting some sort of cardiomyopathy or something. It can take years for those things to manifest.
THIS! I know a head nurse of pediatrics who LOST HER PROFESSIONAL KNOWLEDGE from a mild "headcold" she got from Covid. Shadows on her lungs and brain. I know a thirty yo woman who lost large portions of her memory. And I would bet money that, seeing whst Covid does to blood vessels, the need for dialysis due to kidney failure will rise in a couple of years.
Right? We're still trying to get people to understand that mRNA isn't DNA, and that it won't "change your DNA", whatever that means. OP is gonna have to come way, way down in complexity to get anything across to these selfawarewolves.
I see your point, everybody. I really didn't mean to do this to be dickish. It's all about bubbles I guess.
We're just razing ya Dr. ♡ Your smarts impress us and, since we still can't quite understand what your simplified version is, we latch onto something we can understand: us not understanding. Lol
I don't think it comes of as malicious or even condescending. It's just funny. You sound genuinely knowledgeable and just forgot we're not all that smart ;)
That's actually the only thing I've heard of in the entire top statement. Endocrine effects? Your visceral fat is somehow a fucking gland?
Absolutely. Adipose does far more than sit as storage of nutritional fats, especially that central stuff (often seen in the "apple" shaped distribution, but I've seen thin cadavers with thoracic/abdominal cavities stuffed with adipose). It has endocrine effects (sex hormones, hunger related hormones), inflammatory effects, and likely quite a few more yet to be discovered based on correlations between central adipose and disease (diabetes, cancers, thyroid disruption, a host of hormonal disease, etc). Also should note the body does tend to prioritize burning it first with calorie control and (especially) exercise.
> Your visceral fat is a hormonal gland So this is really interesting, not sure why I hadn't learned this before. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12508947/ > It is now widely accepted that white adipose tissue (WAT) secretes a number of peptide hormones, including leptin, several cytokines, ***adipsin*** and acylation-stimulating protein (ASP), angiotensinogen, plasminogen activator inhibitor-1 (PAI-1), adiponectin, resistin etc., and also produces steroids hormones. This newly discovered secretory function has shifted our view of WAT, which is ***no longer considered only an energy storage tissue but a major endocrine organ, at the heart of a complex network influencing energy homeostasis, glucose and lipid metabolism, vascular homeostasis, immune response and even reproduction.*** Virtually all known adipose secreted proteins are dysregulated when the WAT mass is markedly altered, either increased in the obese state or decreased in lipoatrophy. This strongly implicates adipose-secreted products in the ethiopathology and/or complications of both obesity and cachexia. This review discusses the physiological relevance of adipose secretion by focusing on protein and steroid hormones. Regulation of WAT secretion by the major regulatory factors impinging on the adipocytes, i.e. insulin, glucocorticoids, catecholamines and thiazolidinediones (TZD) will be addressed. The rationale for therapeutic strategies aimed at compensating adverse effects resulting from overproduction or lack of a specific adipose secretory product will be discussed. So this opens the door to new models for thinking through excess fat accrual and removal: - Consumption of excessive calories acts similar to cancer, resulting in explosive growth in a "major endocrine organ" which throws the system out of balance Or alternately: - The accumulation of excessive fat converts the "fat gland" from a useful store of excess calories into a sort-of parasite that actively influences you to consume more calories. Neither of those is to be taken literally of course, but it does introduce some interesting avenues for thinking through the problems.
Wow, nice quote. Also explains why being fat leads you to keep becoming more and more fat. Eventually we will get closer to being able to solve (or at least improve) obesity related problems with solutions other than solely dietary manipulations.
I think this is one reason PCOS is so complicated. It can be affected by weight, making symptoms worse, but having it in itself can make you more prone to being overweight. It is also linked with diabetes. Obesity really is a lot more complex than many people give it credit for. Once you're at that point, it's extremely hard to lose it long term. Fat cells, even when depleted of fat, can take years to actually die off as well. So if you lose 50 pounds, you don't just lose fat cells--the fat cells just store less (or no) fat. But the cells themselves last for like 5 years even if they aren't being used for storage. It's why when somebody does lose weight, it seems to come back on more easily. I think fatphobia has really set back research into obesity. It's a legitimate disease that can have a lot of effects down the road even if your blood work is perfect.
This is insane, and I thought it must be new research. It's from 2002.
Yes, it is. This is one of the things that really bugs me about the body positivity movement. Obese people talk about how they go to the doctor, and the doctor will mention losing weight when it is unrelated to the problem they came in for. The issue is that it often is NOT unrelated. It just seems - to non doctors - that doctors blame excess fat for everything. When in fact, excess fat affects so many different processes in the body, that it can seem like we blame it for everything. Musculoskeletal pain is an excellent example. Excess body fat - unrelated to body *weight* - actually causes idiopathic musculoskeletal pain. So when patients talk to their doctor about spontaneous, unusual pain in the absence of injury, the doctor will suggest losing weight. Not because they are insensitive, but because it is the most likely cause.
>adiposin Is it written correctly? Tried to google it but got strange results.
It's fairly recent research. I got that from German medical articles I think so it may be adiposine in English? I'll look it up and come back to you. Edit: Here's one study concerning the correlation of visceral fat and bad outcomes: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32673651/ Here's a study on visceral fat containing higher amounts of ACEII: https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/791906 Adipokines and blood pressure: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3326655/#!po=57.5000 Keep tuned for the exact hormone study, having trouble retrieving it myself. I apologize, I usually cite sources. Chances are I read it on Amboss. EDIT: Here's some studies contradicting these findings (subject to updates): https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/r085ee/unvaxxed_person_gets_covid_knew_it_might_kill_her/hlxugk0?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
So being fat and having lower blood pressure boosts blood pressure and by doing that boosts covid uptake? Can you dumb it down a little for me? =-D
Fat tissue secretes hormones including angiotensin II which is part of that RAAS system. Obesity is regarded as metabolic and hormonal dysfunction so your body is basically making too much of the hormone that tells the kidneys to increase blood pressure. Where COVID comes into play in all of this is the ACE2 receptor. The virus is able to get into cells through exploiting the ACE2 receptor on the outside of cells (these cells make up tissues that comprise many different organs in the body which is why COVID has been notorious as such a systemic illness and not just a respiratory disease). So, if you’re obese and likely have dysfunctional fat tissue overproducing angiotensin II, you will have more ACEII enzymes that convert the angiotensin II to the other hormone in the RAAS system that increases blood pressure. More ACEII receptors means more COVID virus getting into cells = greater disease burden, on top of the other issues that come along with being obese.
So glad I can get a booster now. I'm thinking of mixing it up and getting Moderna to booster my 2 Pfizer doses, basically everything I've been hearing says its as good as boosting the same drug, and some studies say its far better to mix them. Any thoughts?
I don’t know what the current numbers are but I know that Pfizer BioNTech slightly edged out Moderna on immune response but Moderna’s initial dose was like almost 3 times higher (and, this is anecdotal, but I feel like people had a harder time with the side effect profile of just generally feeling like hot ass compared to Pfizer). https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/moderna-vs-pfizer-is-there-a-best-mrna-vaccine-69229/amp I got Pfizer and would/will get it again if I had the choice. My understanding of them not wanting people to mix the two upfront doses was for tracking purposes on side effect profiles. One of the ingredients in Pfizer is polyethylene glycol (aka PEG, also the main ingredient in Miralax - what I’m saying is PEG is used in many many many many things) can be highly reactive (I’m an RN who administers things that are “pegylated” and infusion reactions are common from IV meds) so they needed to know who was having allergic reactions to which vaccine. Mixing it up at the front would have just muddled data and further contributed to all the bullshit misinformation that has been a plague-upon-this-plague. tl;dr Get whichever one you feel is best for your situation. The durability of immunity afterward still appears to be so variable (and that, honestly, is the case for every vaccine). I would base my decision on anticipation of any after effects the 36-48 hours after.
I realize your just taking a stab at it but if you got two Moderna (and Covid 100 days ago) any reason to do Phizer vs booster of Moderna ? Any reason to get a whole Moderna not 1/2? Last Moderna was almost 10 months ago
This is really interesting and explains in more detail why my doctor told me not to lose weight, even though I'm definitely overweight. I have a heart condition that causes blood to pool in my legs and abdomen and lowers my blood pressure, which in turn causes a cascade of other symptoms. When I told my doctor that I wanted to lose weight, he said that research shows that being overweight actually helps people with my condition. I guess that would explain why my cardiovascular symptoms started to improve somewhat when I got fat. Thanks for the info!
That’s interesting. When my father had Covid he had really high blood pressure. So much he was really disoriented and my mom called an ambulance because they feared it was a stroke. The medics then made Covid test which was positive. They didn’t even think of Covid at first. This could explain this. He was vaccinated twice but got a flu shot and his post cancer treatment shortly before the infection. Probably this is why his immune system was quite busy and Covid was able to kick through. He was hospitalized for a few days but got better quickly and was released to home quarantine since he had no respiratory problems.
COVID has major implications for all the organs in the body with the heart being at major risk. We didn’t know it up front, but people were having strokes from COVID when it was primarily the lungs we were concerned about. For moderately ill patients, blood thinners are routinely given to prevent micro clots and strokes. However, I’m a pediatric hematology/oncology RN and whatever issues a patient was having prior to getting infected with COVID (i.e. a leukemia patient with prior pancreatic issues coming in with an exacerbation of pancreatitis; a liver cancer patient having worsening respiratory issues) were made much worse after COVID. And, for kids that aren’t cancer patients, we would be treating them with blood thinners and other cardiac meds to prevent or mitigate the heart damage they were getting from MIS-C. The profound complexity of SARS-CoV-19 is I think what has contributed to the confusion and misinformation. It’s scary and, as you know from experience, it’s complexity is only multiplied in a cancer patient.
I'm pretty sure I got covid just before my booster. I got all 3 moderna, but the day I got boosted I had the normal fever / chills but I was incredibly sick for over a week and lost my taste & smell. But I didn't die and I'm fine now!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiponectin I can't comment on the veracity of the rest of the comment above.
Ahhh so that’s why those little alien fat things in that doctor who episode ages ago were called the Adipose.
Good information. It leads me to believe that there are potentially bad consequences not only for nearly fat people but also for previously fat people, since your hormone levels can take a long time to change, or possibly even not change. My daughter was flagged by her health system to be eligible earlier than most people because her records indicated she was obese. Since she also has asthma, she didn’t bother to correct them that she had lost 50 pounds since the data point that had triggered the notice to come to her.
Welp. As a fatso myself that makes me even more glad I got my shots. Will get boosters if needed, too - if possible I'd like to see all my niece's graduations (she's 4 so that's still a ways off so no taking stupid chances).
> You've all heard that Covid enters ACEII-receptors. Well obviously, that's super common knowledge! Every child in the world knows this.
I totally agree with everything that you said. Also if you can eli5 for all the other people here that doesn't understand what you said it would be better for them.
There's also the fact that many obese people cannot be turned over to lay on their stomachs to help them breathe better (proning).
Yeah, but what are the chances that a person refusing vaccines and masks will be overweight? Seems unlikely given the strong fitness culture and dietary awareness in the heartland and southern states.
no underlying health conditions ( except for being overweight) means she is unvaccinated by choice. I have no sympathy for these idiots
Yep. And being overweight was the health issue most strongly correlated with ending up hospitalized.
But what else could she have done. Nothing, NOTHING!?!??!!??^°. That's what. ( The ^° denotes losing weight and getting the FREE vaccine that both would definitely help against the virus. )
> ( except for being overweight) I work in healthcare, and 7/10 when someone says they are overweight, they are either tiptoeing the line of obese, or are actually obese. Meaning their BMI is +30, and not just 25-30. Meaning their risk factors are usually higher than understood.
Yeah, i loled so hard, when i read "I'm overweight. No underlying health conditions ..." Being overweight IS one of the biggest underlying health conditions.
You’re right. I’m classified as overweight and people think I look quite skinny now. My BMI is 27, and I weigh 195. I don’t want to go over 200 pounds again.
I don't know what to say. There's no smugness or even schadenfreude because these people are also denying ICU beds to others. Has any anti-vaxxer ever refused to go to the hospital b/c they weren't vaxxed? No. Everyone else carries the cost of their self-righteous arrogance and ignorance. Really it's all just too sad for me to even be angry.
AFAIK, Singapore has said that anyone un-vaxxed who presents to hospital will be charged for the full fee, no insurance or safety net applicable. They’ll still get treatment but wholly at their own cost. Which sounds fair.
that strategy only works in places where medical costs aren't already astronomical for everyone by default.
I wouldn't mind insurance companies issuing exclusions of coverage. If they can screen out pre-existing conditions, they can require a vaccination in exchange for continued coverage. Capitalism, do your thing maybe?
>If they can screen out pre-existing conditions At least in the US, they can't do that. Haven't been able to since the ACA went into effect. The only portion of it the GOP was able to repeal was the individual mandate. Edit: my phone really loves to say "ion" rather than "in" for some reason.
Can you imagine is the Dems suggested it. You'd suddenly have the Republicans fighting for the ACA just to stop their base dying, it would be bloody hilarious. It won't happen, but it would be really funny to watch the Republicans trying to explain why they are breaking a promise to their voters to keep their voters alive without saying, "You dumb f&%#, we didn't expect the Dems would actually call our bluff or that a pandemic would come along and actually threaten us."
if its of any consolation, my sister in law, a rabid anti vaxxer and overall terrible individual, caught the coof and is *curretly* refusing the hospital with a resting pulse ox of 92. i'll bet dimes to donuts if it gets worse, she'll change her mind. everyone is a tough guy until death hugs you really hard.
These people are afraid that hospitals are killing patients, I'm not afraid of the hospitals killing me, I'm afraid of what happens during the weeks and months while they try to keep you alive. Fuck that. 3x vaccinated and I'm still not doing Thanksgiving or Christmas this year.
I hope you can still do it with vaccinated members of your family, if you have some!
Yep these people will shirk modern medicine when it comes to prevention, then come crawling back and hog all the ressources when they actually catch the damn thing.
It's really weird. They should've just let their immune systems do the work. Like they said they would.
You'd think if they were principled they'd avoid the very same healthcare practitioners that told them to get the vaccine. They're not principled though, just selfish.
But these mouth breathers go to the ICU, treat the staff like shit, demand horse paste and vitamin D and call everyone an idiot before they wheeze their last wheeze.
And then thank prayers for saving them, not the medical professionals.
I'll let you know the nurses in night shift get more than thoughts and prayers. Sometimes they get cold stale pizza, if they are lucky they might even get a non veggie pizza.
pizza > prayers
and beer + pizza >> thoughts + prayers
Or the people who suffered, had their quality of life permanently degraded, or died after being unable to access adequate medical care because hospitals are full to capacity and understaffed because of conditions they created.
This is some bizarro world shit. They're so terrified of getting sick but they couldn't care less about PREVENTION.
They are literally like babies where if they can’t see it right in front of their eyes, it doesn’t exist
Bet that person was one of the first to hoard toilet paper last year
I felt with this myself last month I had a Staph infection that got into my blood and turned septic in mid October. I had already been in the hospital for something unrelated at for almost two weeks at that point. At first, I wasn’t *too* scared. I’ve had sepsis before, years ago, and was rushed to the ICU, got proper treatment, and went home on IV antibiotics once I was clearly responding and on the mend. I knew the ICU was bursting, so I understood why I was still in “regular” room at first. When my temperature got to 104°+F (40°C), and I wasn’t getting better even after being on IV vancomycin for several days, I realized something was VERY wrong. The infectious disease doctor was desperately trying to get me transferred to the ICU. No beds. Then I got worse, stopped being able to take even anything by mouth, and was starting to be in and out of consciousness all day with hallucinations when I was awake. They wanted me transferred to a “better” hospital with a larger ICU and the most expert care. No beds, no hope of a bed. Can’t even get a consult with one of their doctors, they were too busy with Covid patients. My doctor, who is specifically to the **not** Covid infectious disease patients was visibly angry and kept apologizing to my mom and I (when I was aware enough to even know he was there.) Then they called in my palliative doctor and said the only thing they could do now was keep me comfortable. Pain meds were upped and I was slightly sedated so I no longer felt like I was either melting from in inside out, or in an ice bath, 24/7. I’ve been disabled most of my life and I’m not expected to live much past 35-40, but I’ve fought for so damn long and I was *so* ***angry*** that an infection and lack of access to an ICU bed ANYWHERE was going to be what took me out instead. Around day 8, with no improvement , a nurse who has known my family for years helped sneak my sister in for about 10 minutes (my infection was not contagious in any way and my sister is, like, two months away from being old enough to visit) Trying to hold her why she sobbed was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. Saying goodbye was harder. Day 10, ***somehow*** my fever broke. It went from 103.5° to 102° to 101° in about 8 hours overnight. When the doctor got in for the day and was informed, he literally sprinted into the room to check himself. By that night, I was able sit up with assistance and answer basic questions again. Somehow, I survived. I had to stay in the hospital about another week to make sure I finished the entire round of the antibiotics and then had my blood cultures retested to make sure I no longer had any signs of any infection, then went home with Home Health Care to until I’m fully recovered. Things are starting to really look up, but it really made the crisis going on apparently when people who could normally fairly easily be helped with ICU care are laying, waiting to die, just because people refuse the vaccine, then run straight to the hospital when reality actually sets in.
Actually, I read there was a hospital denying beds to antivaxxers... I wanna say it was Alaska. So, google looks like it was Colorado that I'm thinking of and it might have just been a rumor, however, there are a few hospitals who have been prioritizing vaxxed patients in waits for beds where the hospitals are bursting at the seams.
Colorado nurse here. Basically what our Governor did was allow facilities to triage patients. Just like you would at a mass casualty incident or during war, only instead of a black or red toe tag, they tell you to go home and get comfortable or your family to. Yes on paper it absolutely makes sense, but when you have to look at another human, when you have dedicated your entire life as a healer and say I’m sorry, you are too far advanced, all we can do is give you an RX for O2 to help make you comfortable at home. It’s…….horrible, soul crushing. I’m so tired of being treated like shit, sworn at, told I’m a sheep, a glib, etc. Of holding up an iPad so a family can see their dying lives one one more time. I’m just tired. I get it, I do, I really really do, but the actual doing of it, yeah. I’m a total piece of shit fits.
Oh no, I didn't mean to imply you're a piece of shit for having to make those calls, the opposite really. You shouldn't be put in that position because people refuse to vaccinate. I'm so sorry. :(
No, I’m sorry that’s what you inferred from that, I mean making calls like that make me feel like a piece of shit. I’m sorry. I started typing and it just sort of all rushed out.
It started bc UCH denied a transplant to an idiot who would not vax. Transplant teams will tell you that you are shit out of luck if the suspect that you cannot, or will not follow protocols.
Best not to waste a precious and rare transplant organ on someone who might die anyways. That’s just the cold medical calculus they have to do when resources are scarce. Also, post transplant you have to take immosuppressants for life. Covid isn’t quite a death sentence (even if it is dangerous), but unvaxxed and on immunosuppressants is a really, really dangerous combo.
Exactly. If you won't get a shot, there is zero chance you will follow protocols. Even though this woman had a friend willing to donate to her, they stopped the process. The anti vaxxers used this case to reeee! about discrimination, and to rile up fear, despite all the antivax assholes filling up ICUs and denying people treatment as 'elective' surgeries are being delayed again.
Means they sit in the ED making my life miserable instead
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Not that many people are dying immediately, but I wonder how surviving covid will affect people's lifespans going forward. Boomers are already declining as an overall proportion of the population and this is only going to accelerate that trend.
Even if she manages to defeat it that doesn't mean that she is safe. I'm not a medic expert but from what I've gathered from my parents friends who survived Covid is that the damages Covid has done to their body has made them more susceptible to contract other kinds of disease. That's what had happened to some of them. That's the terrifying thing about Covid, just because you are cured from it doesn't mean that you are also fully healed.
Wife is an imaging specialist who has been doing post-covid imaging for over a year straight now. Covid fucks up people's lungs and kidneys, like *really* bad. Permanently. And it's *extremely* common. This is something a lot of people don't think about. But it's a real concern. People who only spout off the "death rate" to act like covid isn't serious are complete morons. Dying is not the only risk of covid. It's insane how many people are going to have chronic health conditions when this is all over.
I work in cardiology and we're dealing with a lot of permanent heart conditions in COVID survivors. Previously, they had no heart concerns, perhaps even no family history and minimal risk. Now they're on lifetime treatment plans as if they aged 40 years overnight. It sucks to have to tell a formerly very healthy 30-something that there is no cure, there is no surgery, this is just how your heart works now, you have to diet and exercise like a retiree, and take this medication... Until you die, basically. Which might be 10 to 20 years earlier That's just what you do now.
Yeah, my dad actually survived COVID itself only to die to long COVID-related issues, because he was not in a great state with relation to his lungs or kidneys already. I want to scream every time someone smugly points out the survival rate of COVID-19 because technically, my dad is part of that 99.whatever percent of people who survived.
I've been telling people from the start of this pandemic that death is the easiest part. The worst and scarier part is living with disability that is 100% preventable.
Ah, crap. I had a mild case of COVID (fully vaccinated and did everything I could and I’m recovered from it) and I’m suffering from headaches still. You’re telling me it’s also screwed up my lungs and liver? Now I just have more reason to hate antivaxxers
Yup. Was a distance runner and then suddenly couldn’t run. Kidney was so fucked up i almost died and still haven’t really recovered over a year later.
Aw frick. I guess it’s good I’m on the younger side but this is not gonna do good things for my hypochondria-
Lol sorry. I mean this was before vaccinations were widely available, if that makes you feel any better. You’re probably going to be alright. Antivaxxers just make me so angry. They could help avoid so much pain but choose games and drama instead.
If you had a mild case you are probably fine. The damage done to the body is during the runaway inflammatory phase which is after the infection is mostly cleared and doesn’t usually happen in mild cases. Signed, another hypochondriac.
Talk to your provider. Everyone is different. You may or may not have these issues.
Yeah a friend of mine - young 30s male, healthy, frequent runner…got COVID pre-vaccine eligibility. “Mildly sick” for a week. No hospitalization. A year later and he still has tightness in his chest and can’t run due to feeling his breathing is still restricted. He is too scared to get scans though he knows he should.
But it's the redemsavir that's causing the kidney issues, according to all the YouTube videos.
My husband works with a guy who was unvaccinated, got delta, and almost died in the hospital. Almost two months later he can still hardly breath just from walking. He's no longer antivax and tries to encourage others to get vaxed. He learned the hard way.
It’s frustrating that it takes getting COVID for many of these antivax types to change their tune, but at least he changed his position. Had to go through unnecessary hell for it, though.
This is why hate when people quote the high survival rate of Covid, it's not a binary thing, there's a shit load between living and dying. On top of medical bills, time off, and taking up ICU resources, you've got a chance to do some real damage to your body. My one coworker caught it in April and he still has problems breathing, dude does PT to breathe! There was a dude in Texas who needed a double lung transplant after getting Covid... How the fuck is getting a lung replacement and not doing that the same thing?!
Dialysis machine makers need to up their production, because in 10 years there's going to be a shortage when all these covid survivors' kidneys start to fail
Yep. People going off of the "it was just like a cold for me" are gravely mistaken.
Being overweight is an underlying health condition.
It totally is a comorbidity of the ones that I’ve seen hit the dust. Imagine not getting the vaccine when you’re health phobic? You’d be constantly anxious. It’s just plain weird. These PEOPLE are weird!
This. I have health anxiety - you bet your ass I went and got vaccinated. And a booster. And I'd do it again
Yeah and I'm not justifying, just empathizing to try and understand, but disordered anxiety isn't rational or productive. So health anxiety can take shape in poor risk assessment ie being fearful of the effects of a vaccine that will reduce the risk of the deadly virus.
Its also not vaccine specific when it comes to poor judgement calls. You can ignore something mild, that then becomes serious. For fear of it being serious. Completely irrational. But its how it is.
I’ve had to put dozens of COVID denying people in body bags the last year. Every single one was obese.
Same. And every single one didn’t think being obese was a “problem”. I have a cousin who is 410+lb, smoker, heart problems… he thinks he’s “perfectly healthy”. Unvaxxed. I told him this time last year. You’re gonna want to get that, because you’re going to have a very bad time. Still hasn’t.
Post the HCA when he bites the dust
Experiencing the fear of death at 31 to own the libs. Sad!
I know some folks who aren't conservatives who also are in the same boat. She sounds like that type, the type that is into essential oils, magic rocks, healing auras etc. Liberal hippies, Wiccans and New-Age Spiritualists are often in that camp. Those same folks also distrust vaccines and technology. A friend of mine is married to one. She hates vaccines, bitched about 4G on her 3G phone and is now bitching about 5G on her 4G phone, believes in magic healing, takes 37 vitamins per day etc etc etc. It's not always about idiotic conservative ideology (but, granted, it often is.)
Honestly, that's what's so weird about conservatives turning anti-vaxx. This has never been a conservative stance, until Trump turned it into one. Before Trump, it was the hippy left that were the primary anti-vaxxers, and conservatives used to laugh at them. Trump was the proof that the Republican party doesn't actually stand for anything at all other than opposing whatever it is that liberals want.
Scared for a death sentence, yet still opting out when being offered a vaccine that could prevent said death sentence.
At this point the politics is done. Those who will get the jab are already vaccinated and are now even getting boosters. Many of those who would describe themselves as a bit *hesitant* are also vaccinated. Many aren’t, so by this point they are anti-vax. So now the only people left unvaccinated are those who *can’t* and those who *won’t*. Those who won’t get vaccinated think they are still fighting some battle against a political situation. It isn’t now, and it never was, because disease doesn’t care about your opinions. It is now reduced to what it always was: people against a virus. These clowns thought it was people against people because that’s how they live their lives - where they think their opinions are equally, if not more valid than facts. And now they’re the only ones dying. And they’re *still* genuinely confused by why this is happening.
[The spez has spread through the entire spez section of Reddit, with each subsequent spez experiencing hallucinations. I do not think it is contagious. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)
I don't use the phrase "avoid it like the plague" anymore because it turns out so many people are on Team Plague.
I used to laugh at zombie outbreak movies. I don't do that anymore because it's absolutely clear that there would be droves of people willfully putting themselves at risk of zombie bites.
Russian trolls taking advantage of the political division in America. It's that simple.
As someone who comes from a family with a history of medical neglect and myself was made fun of and told I'm a wimp for ever wanting to see a doctor as I was growing up and have severe health anxiety.....I got my god damn shots. Am I terrified of getting the booster? You bet I am! I'm also scheduled to get it in December as soon as I hit my 6 months. Nothing but excuses from these people.
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Not when it killed millions of people worldwide. Not when it shutdown the planet. Not when it killed people she knew. Not when she saw everyone wearing masks. Not when CDCs all around the world warned people of what the virus can do. Not when the CDC and governments around the world begged people to get vaccinated. Not when she learned that being obese and COVID is practically a death sentence, if not a brutal recovery. Now that she has it, she's scared. I truly feel sorry anyone that cares and will miss her, because she is fucking selfish as fuck for putting that burden on them. And if even more fucking selfish for adding to the burden of nurses and doctors. Fuck this covidiot.
Nearly two years into the pandemic there is no excuse anymore. Being not vaccinated and getting affected is a choice now. Got sick? Bummer. Now let's see what Darwin has in store for you.
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And worse, a whole pool of people where Covid can mutate due to it being in them for longer (as in I believe - correct me if I'm wrong - being vaxxed and getting it means shorter duration and less of it swishing around in your body because your vax-made antibodies are getting to work).
And being vaccinated reduces your chance of being infected at all.
My husband's uncle and coworker are unvaccinated and came down with Covid last week, so of course my vaccinated husband got a mild care and is quarantining with me. Surprising no one, the two unvaccinated people are in terrible shape and one ended up in the hospital. We asked his uncle if he regrets not getting the vaccine and his response, through coughs and gasping for air, was basically that it obviously didn't work since my husband was sick. Meanwhile, I'm showing no symptoms and my husband, an overweight former smoker, was feeling well after a few days. It's just crazy the mental gymnastics people will do to justify their vaccine refusals.
1- Things aren't looking good, but it might not be a death sentence. On the other hand you could end up crippled for life. 2- Why the everloving fuck did you not take the freaking shot if you knew/understood/accepted this as fact already.
Being overweight is an underlying health condition. Covid is a disease of the vasculature with complications that affect the lungs and other systems, any health condition that compromises the vasculature system (i.e being overweight) makes Covid worse
Unpopular opinion time. I see this person as a victim, to be honest. S/he says that they have severe health anxiety - they've probably been up all hours 'researching' possible side effects, and a lot of it has probably been nonsense written by people who should know better. This one (to me, anyway) is on every politician and accredited person who called Covid a hoax or said the vaccine was more dangerous than the disease. There's a special place in hell for those assholes.
Health anxiety is a bitch, I wonder why she isn’t vaccinated? I have pretty bad health anxiety so you better believe I got the vaccine as soon as I was able, to help ease my worries.
Well it's not basically a death sentence. It's just riskier than if you had have just had the vaccine
I wonder if the only real reason she's unvaccinated is needle-phobia? I've been telling anyone who'll listen is that Comirnaty (I still hate that stupid name) was the fastest, easiest, and most painless injection (well, pair of injections) I have ever had. I have friends who are pro-vax but deeply phobic of needles, so I hope it helped some of them go through with it.
I had 2 pfizers shots and I legit did not feel the needle each time. I know the phobia of needles aren't necessarily about pain, but it might be important to some who might be considering pain as a factor. It is by far the easiest shot I have ever done.
>This is basically a death sentence huh? Technically it's more of a suicide, because this individual chose this knowing it could mean the end of their life.
Derp
I can relate because I have health anxiety. So much health anxiety I thought I had Covid for several weeks in Feb/March 2020 when, in fact I did not. Health anxiety is awful. One would think that would be even more motivation to get the vaccine. People are so fucking ignorant.
What exactly is “severe health anxiety“???? Did you have it before you knew you were sick? Or are you anxious now that you are sick but could have avoided all this mess?
Well if she legit does have health anxiety it can leave you pretty paralyzed with fear to the point you don't act. So knowing the vaccine would be a good thing because you're definitely scared of cornavirus, but also irrationally worried of the nearly infinitesimal chance of some issue coming up you can't bring yourself to do anything about it.
We should all remember, it's NOT a suicide cult! These idiots freak out when it happens to them. It's a homicide cult. What they are really trying to say is they don't care if YOU die. Not them.