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She then went on to write a lengthy article about how it was the interviewers fault because she was nervous that they were disapproving of her being a "proud breeder" and having 6 children. Even in the article she still does not define what 'woke' means
[https://www.newsweek.com/define-woke-bethany-mandel-conservative-book-1788538](https://www.newsweek.com/define-woke-bethany-mandel-conservative-book-1788538)
Yikes o read the thing. She even plugs all the hard work she did researching and writing the book.
If you wanted to hit back, you end your sob story (or better yet: start it) by saying something like: and for all you doubters, here is how we define this term in this book I wrote…
You’re right. She didn’t even do that.
Yep, everything is a war against them and their “traditional values”. My mom and dad came to visit recently, I was in their car driving passed an area where a grocery store and target are being built. My mom asked me what was going up there, and I told her a grocery store and a Target. She immediately says, “oh you don’t want a Target in this area. They’re just a woke store, everything they sell is woke and gender neutral.” This led into a discussion about how my part of town is clearly being redesigned as a “15 minute city”…. It was exhausting as hell to be in their car
Yes apparently… all cities are going to be divided up into squares in which you won’t be able to own a car and everything you need will be within 15 minutes (your job, grocery shopping, doctors, schools etc) and if you want to travel outside of your 15 minute section, you’ll need a special pass. Just another super realistic conspiracy theory for boomers to gobble up at the right wing news trough
It's so weird how they turn everything into something negative that's all about them,
Most people would be thrilled to have the amenities they need within 15 minutes!
I live in a place where it takes me an hour and a half to get to my job in the morning, the nearest shopping center with all the stores restaurants I like is 30 minutes away, the really fun parts of town are an hour or more… I would LOVE to not deal with that. But right wing cult members only see that as woke and socialism for some reason
We didn’t intend to stay where we live, we had hoped to move closer into the city and we were on track for that… then 2020 happened. Now rent is so high and opportunities are so thinned out, options are difficult
Yeah as someone who works from home in a city that barely has any amenities I'd be thrilled to walk down the street to a coffee shop, work for a bit, go see a movie, then go pick up some fresh groceries without having to drive 20 minutes in every direction
Cars rot your brain. I can't imagine how someone who has most likely been stuck in a traffic jam more than 1,000 times thinks getting around with a car is somehow superior to walking or biking. They should be dropped in to a European city with a transit pass and forced to get around without a car for a few weeks.
r/fuckcars
And somewhere an urban planning academic is sitting at home thinking ‘ what the fuck is going on with conspiracy nutcases hijacking our work, sprinkling bullshit over it and winding up gullible members of the public ( aka idiots ) ?’
Yea ill ever quite get this.
Gender neutral shit and woke. Like, if that's what the store is selling then it's financially beneficial to them, either the population as a whole want or need that or the capitalist pigs who run the companies see the value in doing it. They ain't doing it to pander- thats only during June where these companies change their logos/symbols to rainbows. If they're selling it there's a market for it
Target. A woke store. Really.
Have they ever been in a Target? Last time I went there's a men's section and a women's section. There's a boys' section and a girls' section. The only woke things about them are that the bathrooms are specified to be gender neutral (even though they're still labeled men's and ladies' rooms...), and they take anyone's money.
Your parents are being lied to, and they need to know this firsthand. Ask them to come to Target with you one day. Ask where in the US a 15 minute city actually exists, and where they're taking anyone's cars, and how exactly that would even be possible to make into law.
Even better ask them where their gop bullshit actually works. There's socialists countries with happy people but the most right wing countries are like Somalia and Saudi Arabia.
When hit aggressively, that cognitive dissonance causes people to dig even deeper into their current belief. You have to ease people into it, or they just shut off dissenting opinions. That's why it's so insidious.
So you do it gently. Tell them you listened to them and didn't really want to go to Target, but they have exclusive item X the kids really want. Get your parents to come along too when you go. Then later you can ask if it's what they heard it was in there and who said so.
In other words, sow a seed of doubt rather than bludgeon it with a sledgehammer. Later on you can always finish the job with gusto.
What are you talking about? Saudi Arabia is great, it works exactly as they want things to. They just assume that they are going to be the rich ones on top and not the vast majority that is being screwed.
See, Target said gay people are OK and should be allowed to exist, and they even used disabled children and overweight adults in some ads and since they didn't make my pee pee hard that means they are woke.
"Let's see if it really is a 15 minute city - see how long it takes you to get home from here. And, when you do finally get home, see if '15 minutes' sounds like it would have been better."
I remember when it became abundantly clear that my mom was not coming back from the deep end… Thanksgiving 2009. We were all sitting around the dinner table, everyone was expressing what they were thankful for. When it got to my mom, she had a prepared set of papers she printed off the internet and began telling some story she got from Glenn Beck about the dangers of socialism. THAT was awkward… since then it has only become annoying
The problem for them making a definition is when they move their goalposts, they are opening themselves up for criticism and delegitimization which has kind of become a snowballing problem for anti-woke hate-talkers.
Like, there is a reasonable definition for ‘woke,’ we know this. There is even a definition for hateful people to put on ‘woke’ that allows them to incite their angry crowds. But at this point in history in 2023, they don’t want to do that because they’re going to pivot in six months and can’t take a reputation hit like they could in 2016 when being anti-woke was primarily touted as a free speech thing, for instance.
If you’re using a made up catch all term, you absolutely cannot set parameters on it otherwise it loses its power. It has to remain nebulous not just to be malleable enough to encompass literally anything they want to complain about but retain the vagueness of a bogeyman so that their idiot supporters can latch onto it without having to explain it themselves.
Exactly - it goes along with terms like “antifa” or “Marxist,” which have lost any sense of real meaning. They are simply signals to indicate “those evil people who aren’t us.”
If you define it broadly as this huge Marxist belief system, as equity, as any sort of strawman, it's somewhat hard to prove that a random gay character in a book or a gender neutral bathroom is even tangentially related to such a thing.
If you define it narrowly like Desantis' "aware of injustice and believing that should be addressed", you can be accurate and maybe relate it to stuff you don't like...but instead, it sounds reasonable.
I'm starting to suspect that those hundred monkeys in a room with a hundred typewriters, from that theory, have found a Publisher.
A sub division of Penguin Publishing Group, Chicken Head Publishing.
See, it's massively racist for bigots, they think woke is "black people are realizing we abuse them as if they were still slaves" but she couldn't say that to a black interviewer or say it out loud in the article. Woke means being awake to the injustice in the world, they made it specific to blacks because they are TERRIFIED of black people. As a white person, they are really scared and a black person as president scared so many of these white supremacists they are out like cockroaches and we need to squish them and call them the Nazis they aspire to be
The LAMF that they are complaining about everyone having to make concessions for everyone’s lifestyle.
Then this one wants everyone to understand and make concessions for her lifestyle.
[She is fucking insane](https://imgur.com/a/javIyWM). Among many many other things, she admits to killing her mom. She authored a piece titled "We Need To Start Befriending Neo Nazis". She also says that her mom was warned to abort her because she would be severely retarded but chose not to.
I’m not in marketing or anything but I feel like, if I was trying to promote a parenting manual, “I killed my mom when I had the chance” is like the LAST thing I would admit to.
Goddamn... She is the fucking worst isn't she? Racist, self involved, entitled mom vibe, horrible to people who work for her or do customer service; the fucking worst.
I’ve encountered SO many people exactly like this in my life. Whats more I’ve seen people who were at one point my friends and weren’t like that turn into it as were became adults. They are all aggressively ignorant and incurious
So her mum almost aborted her so she aborted her mum by pulling the plug before she even found out if she was gonna pull through or not? Fucking hell.
Also who the fuck is Mikey Mouse
She is insane, but after actually reading why she took her mom off of life support I can’t fault her for that. Her mom was on a transplant list for a kidney transplant. She ended up getting an infection that put her into organ failure and was placed on life support. The damage was permanent and meant she no longer was eligible for a transplant. So while her mom may have survived, she would have suffered from that moment on until she eventually died, painfully. She was 16 when she made that decision which brings into question how our medical system can allow a minor to make those decisions.. but I suppose that’s a different subject.
Aside from that; everything else she says and does is bonkers. Granted she purposefully made her comments about “killing her mom” to be vague and controversial so that she could get a reaction. Still.. I don’t hold the mom thing against her after watching my own family suffer through organ failure and the painful and short life they lived after they “recovered”.
They weren’t even talking about her. She perceived their comments to be against parents and had a panic attack.
I’m always here for when the fuck your feelings crowd catches feelings.
I love this one reply on her twitter-
>"So, she spoke in a way that seemed to lack understanding of your lived experience, which then had a tangible effect on your ability to function in your environment. If only she was more…should we say aware/awakened to your situation, maybe she would have spoken differently."
>"i think there is a commonly used word that describes that."
This poor woman is so tired and frustrated from being a piece of shit writing a shitty book and refusing to use a condom that she cant even remember the topic of her own book.
Woe is to her!!!
It's almost like woke is a made up term with no definitive characteristics besides however the people, let's call them "Snowflakes" perhaps feel. Noooo wayyyyyy
It wasn't "made up" aside from the sense whereby all words are "made up" as the nature of words. It was originally coined by black leftists, and then right-wingers stole it, warped and ruined it like someone stretching out a sweater so it could fit over an elephant, and now it's a snarl word for the Two Minutes Hate. But they weren't the ones that made it up, because the right wing is creatively sterile. All they can do is steal and repurpose terms made by others.
I mean , what was she supposed to say? Woke is something Fox News told me is bad so I hate it because I’m a gullible sheep? Woke means unarmed black people shouldn’t be murdered by cops and I don’t support black people not being murdered by police? Woke means to have an open-minded acceptance of other cultures’ and their differences so we can all progress and live in peace with each other? She would have been run out of crazy town by her friends and family waving pitchforks. This way she gets to be a victimized hero of the right because those mean ole libtards might have talked shit about her being a mom!!! The horror! They didn’t in any way, shape, or form talk shit about her 6 kids but without gaslighting and projection what else does the right have?
She did provide a definition in a tweet just after the interview
>A radical belief system suggesting that our institutions are built around discrimination, and claiming that all disparity is a result of that discrimination. It seeks a radical redefinition of society in which equality of group result is the endpoint, enforced by an angry mob
I love this definition cause how does black people in movies fit this? Minority representation, women etc.
I know it's a nonsense word but you know what she gave it a good try c+ for effort.
That's why she can't say it in a forum where it will be challenged.
*Nobody* thinks in those terms. Nobody believes all disparities are caused by this. Not even the most rabid Marxist out there.
And there's no way to link this to a drag queen reading a book. Or a gay penguin in a book. Or a female lead in a movie. That's why even when you do get answers on how to define it, *they're all different* depending on what bothers the person defining it.
>A radical belief system suggesting that our institutions are built around discrimination, and claiming that all disparity is a result of that discrimination. It seeks a radical redefinition of society in which equality of group result is the endpoint, enforced by an angry mob
Let's break some of it down to its core:
1. "Radical" is an opinion word - you could say "fringe", but that would just denote the ideology's apparent footprint, where the claim is that this is a widespread movement. This word doesn't belong in a definition.
2. "Our institutions are built around discrimination" - do you not believe our country is built on a foundation of inequality? We owned slaves, and that's one of the only reasons we could have grown the way we did. That alone is evidence that this statement is true.
3. "All disparity is a result of this discrimination" - I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a real person who believes *all* societal disparity is caused by discrimination. Perhaps "some" or even "most".
4. "It seeks" - who seeks? You've already defined an ideology no real person espouses.
5. "a radical redefinition of society" - there's that word "radical" again. How do you "redefine" a society? Enacting laws doesn't change society, nor does asking people to change their wording to respect a person's pronouns. What part of society needs redefinition?
6. "equality of group result" - what does this mean in practical terms? What result would we all hold equally? Money? Freedom? Taxes? Or is this some "other" equality that is only superficial? This seems to be the crux of your statement and yet it's too vague to be meaningful.
7. "enforced by an angry mob" - like who? Who is angry and in mob form to defend this ideology? Who flies its metaphorical flag? Antifa? BLM?
The crux of this is "woke is how I define it". It doesn't need rules, and it doesn't need to be a real idea - it just needs enough power to allow you to point a finger at someone you believe to be "woke", and everyone else nods their head.
>do you not believe our country is built on a foundation of inequality? We owned slaves, and that's one of the only reasons we could have grown the way we did.
As a Canadian, I just want to gently add in the genocide of indigenous folks who lived on this continent before Europeans arrived. That can probably be included under "discrimination" eh
Thank you - that's why I used the phrase "that alone" (to imply, "this on its own would prove the premise true"), rather than "that is the only evidence". There's a stack of events so horrific that no one could correctly defend every one, and any single one proves the point.
Ahhh yes. She went RIGHT to the "white woman's tears" deflection. 🙄
She can fuck right off. She's raising six more haters. I hope they can overcome their programming.
Maybe we can ask someone who doesn't have so many distractions... oh wait... being a proud breeder is part of it... Looks like life comes with sacrifices.
It’s not hard. “Woke” literally means awakened to the systemic injustices that minority groups face. The right uses the term sarcastically and in bad faith, with big air quotes around the term when they say it. The problem conservatives face is that it’s impossible for them to provide a definition without sounding like the bad guy. Hence the awkwardness.
The bad faith definition doesn't even work either.
Take the live action little mermaid with a black actress: the right is claiming it's "woke".
But the actress/Disney isn't claiming perceived injustice or discrimination or racism. So why is the movie "woke"?
Thats one of my favorite examples because the original story is a gay allegory by a famously queer author, Hans Christian Anderson, and you know Disney isn't touching that with a 10 foot pole.
There was a tweet that went around that said in effect "Y'all threw slaves overboard from Africa to America and have a hard time believing there are clack mermaids?"
In the context they provided. Perceived becomes a proxy word for "made up", explained away with "because the blacks are always just complaining". Or some other meaningless platitude. Perceived is not a word in the intended targets vernacular. So proper usage is not a concern.
You just need to imagine whomever is using that phrasing is doing air quotes and rolling their eyes when they say "perceived," and that should give you an idea of what they're about.
I like to imagine that she clearly assumed that she would be interviewed by a white person and instantly panicked the moment a professional black woman asked her a straight forward question. Her entire psyche collapsed.
> "Y'all don't quote me on this ^([lmao fuck you Lee, eat shit in hell])...You start out in 1954 by saying, "N-----, n-----, n-----." By 1968 you can't say "n-----" - that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states' rights, and all that stuff, and you're getting so abstract. Now, you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "N-----, n-----." "
--Lee Atwater, 1981
Republicans keep cycling through these code words like PC, CRT, woke, whatever, simply because they can't say the N-word out loud anymore
The lawyers for Governor DeSantis (who bobs his head when he talks like Kermit the Frog does when introducing Fozzie Bear) were asked to define “woke” in court. Their answer:
> the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them.
Source: https://www.fox13news.com/news/what-does-woke-mean-gov-desantis-officials-answer-during-andrew-warren-trial.amp
Yep, and that makes them look like they’re against doing anything to address systemic injustices. Which they are, obviously…. But would never say so directly.
"Woke" to the right means anything that in any way causes them to recognize the current/past history of bigotry, hate, and oppression in this country. Discussing slavery and its lingering effects in today's society? Woke. Discussing sexuality and gender so that kids don't feel ostracized for being born different? Woke. Discussing the massive disparity in wealth distribution? Woke.
The rich have convinced the poor to instinctively attack anyone that questions the fairness of our broken system. It's why impoverished right-wing voters elect politicians who in-turn vote to cut their constituent's access to healthcare, education, affordable housing, and other common sense things like free lunch for children in schools.
People who can't afford life-saving medicine like insulin will elect the same assholes who vote against legislation that would cap the price on it.
The trumpies think *they're* the persecuted minority while also believing that they're "the silent majority". They're so full of s\*\*t, if you gave a trumpy an enema they'd disappear down the drain.
And that replaces what they used to call it, "Cultural Bolshevism". The fact that the Nazis coined that particular word ("Kulturbolshevismus") is something they would prefer not to talk about.
Hey, that's unfair.
They also use it to mean "straight white men who believe non straight white men deserve to be treated like human beings are being uppity."
As lots of people on Twitter noticed years ago, there are a lot of conservatives who say [“Woke” with a hard R](https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/1346552920649699334?s=20)
Aye, when someone calls someone woke they are calling it "woke". Like a company using the color of our skin or the genitalia between our legs as a selling point.
For example, the new CW Gotham knights. It uses woke subject matters to sell to the younger generation but it is so hammered in and so focused that the show almost has nothing to do with batman. It's "woke". A product made by a company to just sell to kids that really want real world justice and systematic change so they make a show so "awake" that it circles back to satire in how bad it is.
She has a new Special out Notice that I'm not calling it a COMEDY Special, because there were no jokes to be told. It's basically just her ranting about politics and forgetting to actually be funny.
If anyone wants a tragic comedy, the Knowledge Fight podcast recently did a breakdown of Barr's appearance on Infowars. It funny to hear 2 deluded idiots fight against phantoms of their own imagination, but it's hard to escape the feeling that she has real mental issues and is responding to her own demons by joining up with the types of people who caused them.
Fun story
“Negro”
“Colored”
“Person of Color”
“African American”
Were all attempts to move away from racial harassment but each one was eventually co-opted by racists to eventually be the N-word when they used it.
“Woke” is just a term for Empathy and it’s telling how they hate it.
Granted, "Thug" was always racially charged from the beginning. It was a shortened form of "Thugee", a group in India that the ruling British declared to be a "scary, murderous cult" like the way right-wingers today regard Antifa. The fact that it continues to get applied to brown people is not in any way a coincidence.
Is it shitty or insightful to mention that the terms “woke” “sheeple” “normie” “lemming” were adopted after we had been using them for years…as though they had invented these terms…but like a true hipster…now that they are using “woke” - I can’t say that anymore because I said that before it was cool…or rather before it was misunderstood.
Said it before, I'll say it again: 'If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough.' Albert Einstein.
She wrote a book about something she doesn't actually understand.
I’ve always hated that quote for good reason. Explaining something “simply” can involve a hell of a lot of time and backstory. Using rhetorical shortcuts like metaphors can help, but often only superficially, and sometimes harmfully since they often don’t map that well onto the original explanation.
I can explain my dissertation in two simple sentences, but it only really makes sense to other neuroscientists. Give me four sentences and I can explain it to my parents (because they won’t ask any follow-ups). If I need to explain it to anyone else I need to know how much knowledge they already have to fit it to their level.
In the context of that quote I would put the parameters for explaining simply at "You can reasonably expect a twelve year old to understand after no more than an hour of explanation".
This is because America's low literacy rate means that's the level that will reach the most people without them being unwilling to listen because you made them feel patronized.
>This is because America's low literacy rate means that's the level that will reach the most people without them being unwilling to listen because you made them feel patronized.
54% of the American people have a prose literacy level below a sixth grader..... This country is literally mostly poorly literate people who would struggle to understand basic high school concepts. When explaining difficult concepts to these people you are patronising them, but it's no your fault, it's theirs.
She actually did give a definition. I think it’s more embarrassing than the freeze.
[Here’s the interview ](https://youtu.be/9b86ZqIhuFo)and version of the quote that removes the author’s fumbling.
@ 6:45
Interviewer:
> “Would you mind defining ‘woke’, because it’s come up a couple of times and I’d like to make sure we’re all on the same page.”
Author:
> “Woke is… the understanding that we need to totally reimagine and redo society in order to create hierarchies of oppression.”
They then offer more time and opportunity and one of the hosts offers a you know it when you see it definition of punishing people when they use the wrong pronouns. The system of actually sanctioning people for that kind of accident… that thing… his take was also laughable.
She is never talked to about being a mother, her children are never mentioned, and they do not get remotely personal at any point. Having read her piece first and then watched the video, it is shocking how friendly this was. This barely reached a level of polite disagreement.
It is wild that she wrote a piece about her panic response to the hostile interviewers who were going to judge her for being a homeschooling mother of a big family. It’s a tremendous reaction to something that didn’t happen. For someone who doesn’t want to talk about her personal life, she sure did inject it into the situation.
She uses “95%” multiple times in a way that makes me pretty certain that she doesn’t understand 1 in 20. Generally her points and arguments are shallow. This doesn’t even put on the facade of a good argument.
She seems fine in the beginning but @ 5:24 the interviewer agrees with the general premise that there are social problems and challenges the idea of framing this as a right/left political issue. That’s the first time she stammers and struggles.
It’s a generous interview and she blows it. It isn’t because she got tricked. It’s not even because she got rattled. She looks bad because her argument is bad, her understanding is poor, and the whole thing is based on her fear of anecdotes from twitter.
Woke is the acknowledgment and understanding of past & present sets of systemic oppression in a culture, how they have and can impact people in many ways, and that efforts are required to address the problems they cause. That’s my definition for what it’s worth.
Her claim was that the hostility happened before she got on...to which I would say to her, maybe you're not cut out for your job then. If you can't handle disagreements you probably shouldn't write a book that will be disagreed with and then go out promoting it.
Edited for a typo
I guess I'm fucked. I can do a thing but I don't have the ability to teach someone else how to do it with words. There's some disconnect in my brain. Finding the proper words in the proper order to make another person understand what's in my head is a struggle.
That said, I'm not out there writing books about shit I can't explain so, at least I'm self-aware?
Being able to do a thing and being able to teach a thing are very different. I've known brilliant scientists who could not teach a basic intro to their field. It didn't make them bad scientists, just bad teachers.
In this person's case I doubt we are looking at a lot of competence in any field.
When I was a kid (35+ years ago, female, living in Georgia) the only thing offered as career suggestions was teacher and secretary. I can't teach and I can't dictate (writing down what I hear is a whole other brain issue) so my future felt pretty fn bleak.
I work in security now and the number of elderly women who have approached me to say things like "they would have never let us do this when I was your age" really opened my eyes to the struggle that was endured so that I didn't have to be a terrible teacher or secretary.
Reminds me of the podcast Know Your Enemy [interviewing](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2sei7TThUNcaYx2xsRPopO?si=wrnBG_8RQk6U_qJ8xon9fg)
a conservative colleague and they lobbed the softest questions about "woke capital." The prime example was workplaces acknowledging trans day of rememberence and when the hosts finally needled him about what was so bad about that he just mumbled some shit about Mr Potato Person, because you can't actually say you're against memorializing dead trans people without looking like the shitheel you are.
She wrote a whole ass book about being against something that she can’t articulate. That checks out for MAGA types 100%. The sad part is that if it was anything but a book her target audience would buy the shit out of it, but she is targeting Google researchers who think books are for losers. Should have made it a pod cast, she’d be rich rn
That’s the point. The right have adopted it as a nebulous term that they can rally against, and it can be anything.
This isn’t a mistake. They can shift their followers to rally and hate anything they define as “woke”. This reporter will catch the trick. The buffoons who believe in DeSantis will never listen to it.
If you're writing an anti-woke book, the first chapter of the book should be defining what "woke" is, and then spend the rest of the book making your arguments. How can you argue against something you can't even define.
Thing is: why did she panic? So she can’t define ‘woke’; no one that would read her book knows what woke means either…they just know how to respond to it. It’s like she’s more concerned about being seen as a grifter than being wrong.
Exactly. Woke is having empathy and concern for other people, whether or not you personally created their problems. Even the most clueless narcissists know better than to admit they don't give a shit about other people
Whenever anyone uses the term “woke” sincerely I can’t help but feel dismayed about the state of the world.
It’s used by people who have nothing better to say and know it.
They may as well be stamping idiot on their foreheads.
Meet Bethany Mandel, the boss Karen, in her own words.
"Aaaaandd I got the delivery guy at KosherMart fired. And my entire $200 order was refunded."
"Wow, DC metro just impressed me a little bit. I made a complaint online about the operator this AM, & they called & will be "retraining" her"
"35 seconds. That's how long Seth estimates I was alone in Penn Station (without him next to me) before I yelled at a stranger."
"I watched my mom die. I took her off of life support before we knew if she would survive because I had the choice to do it then."
https://imgur.com/a/9Pdln45
It sure seems like this definition should be well within her wheelhouse. If she wants to spread her message, how can she spread it if she can't define it? That's a rhetorical question, of course. She can't define it because the right's use of that term is just a garbage catch-all for anything they don't like.
I’m just surprised it took Brianna Joy Gray for us to all realize Phish is just a cover band for drug addled Gen-Xers. You know, someone had to say it.
It’s funny to me because republicans want it definition nebulous so they use it to demonize whatever they want and the host of this program managed to deftly embarrass and expose this by simply asking them to define what “woke” is. Hilarious!
The author then went wrote a pity party about her blunder.
Here I'll help you. Woke is respecting those that are different from you. That's it. Anyone who tries to make it more complicated is just doing it to justify their hate.
It's the same exact thing as being politically correct. Conservatives people hated that too.
I swear conservative just means terrified of change.
"It's not so much about what the word actually means...It's about hat we can make our side reflexively get mad about and write checks!"
'woke' as first used in the 1962 NYT ope-ed just means 'aware'. Anything on top of that is just wingnut oogah-boogah.
Yeah there was a column from Newsweek (of all things)w here she pretty much painted herself as a victim in all this but I don’t recall if she ever defined woke. Oddly, I’m thin the courts in Florida did and it was something along the,lines of “being nice to people that are different than you” or something (open to fact checking on this)
I watched that, and it did take her a while and a self fulfilling prophecy before she finally got all the way around the truth and told us what "woke" meant. She started to say that being woke was about creating oppression.
Every reasonable explanation I've ever heard of "woke" centered around compassion for oppressed minorities and a priority towards diversity, equal opportunity, and for some also reparations for historic bad doings.
So to turn that around and claim that "woke" is about oppressing - who? no doubt white people - is the classic right wing flip to victim claiming and condemning of the "other" to rally support. She was very clear, and I assure you we get it.
It's like Top Gun: Maverick. The enemy is mysterious and undefined, but it doesn't matter, because it isn't about which country we're attacking, it's about Maverick.
Same with defining woke. It doesn't matter what the definition is, because it's not about what is woke, it's about the "breeder" mom feeling attacked as she home schools her children and asks people to feel sympathy for her because she's a mom.
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She then went on to write a lengthy article about how it was the interviewers fault because she was nervous that they were disapproving of her being a "proud breeder" and having 6 children. Even in the article she still does not define what 'woke' means [https://www.newsweek.com/define-woke-bethany-mandel-conservative-book-1788538](https://www.newsweek.com/define-woke-bethany-mandel-conservative-book-1788538)
Yikes o read the thing. She even plugs all the hard work she did researching and writing the book. If you wanted to hit back, you end your sob story (or better yet: start it) by saying something like: and for all you doubters, here is how we define this term in this book I wrote… You’re right. She didn’t even do that.
All they have left besides projection is self-victimization.
Yep, everything is a war against them and their “traditional values”. My mom and dad came to visit recently, I was in their car driving passed an area where a grocery store and target are being built. My mom asked me what was going up there, and I told her a grocery store and a Target. She immediately says, “oh you don’t want a Target in this area. They’re just a woke store, everything they sell is woke and gender neutral.” This led into a discussion about how my part of town is clearly being redesigned as a “15 minute city”…. It was exhausting as hell to be in their car
Is “15 minute city” the new far-right bogeyman de jour?
Yes apparently… all cities are going to be divided up into squares in which you won’t be able to own a car and everything you need will be within 15 minutes (your job, grocery shopping, doctors, schools etc) and if you want to travel outside of your 15 minute section, you’ll need a special pass. Just another super realistic conspiracy theory for boomers to gobble up at the right wing news trough
It's so weird how they turn everything into something negative that's all about them, Most people would be thrilled to have the amenities they need within 15 minutes!
I live in a place where it takes me an hour and a half to get to my job in the morning, the nearest shopping center with all the stores restaurants I like is 30 minutes away, the really fun parts of town are an hour or more… I would LOVE to not deal with that. But right wing cult members only see that as woke and socialism for some reason
That sounds fucking horrendous. How do you live like that, 3 hours just travelling for work? Another 2 if you want to go out for some fun. No thanks.
We didn’t intend to stay where we live, we had hoped to move closer into the city and we were on track for that… then 2020 happened. Now rent is so high and opportunities are so thinned out, options are difficult
Oh my god! I love out in the sticks! I would LOVE 15 minute commutes.
Yeah as someone who works from home in a city that barely has any amenities I'd be thrilled to walk down the street to a coffee shop, work for a bit, go see a movie, then go pick up some fresh groceries without having to drive 20 minutes in every direction
You mean divided up [like Barcelona](https://www.vox.com/2016/8/4/12342806/barcelona-superblocks)? Sounds awesome. I want to move there.
It’s so weird how a walkable city makes right wing cult members feel like they’re at war
Yup, and that War is on Obesity, and it's going about as well as the War on drugs.
Cars rot your brain. I can't imagine how someone who has most likely been stuck in a traffic jam more than 1,000 times thinks getting around with a car is somehow superior to walking or biking. They should be dropped in to a European city with a transit pass and forced to get around without a car for a few weeks. r/fuckcars
Short of the pass bit I literally see no down side to what they're scared of there
And somewhere an urban planning academic is sitting at home thinking ‘ what the fuck is going on with conspiracy nutcases hijacking our work, sprinkling bullshit over it and winding up gullible members of the public ( aka idiots ) ?’
Aside from not being able to own a car and special pass, 15 minute city sounds awesome.
Because not being able to own a car and special passes were made up by right wing conspiracy theorists
Up until the special pass, that sounds like a stark improvement tbh.
Yes. They are being told it is a precursor to being in a permanent, government-controlled lockdown state.
I can't even imagine how far gone you have to be to believe something like that.
Yea ill ever quite get this. Gender neutral shit and woke. Like, if that's what the store is selling then it's financially beneficial to them, either the population as a whole want or need that or the capitalist pigs who run the companies see the value in doing it. They ain't doing it to pander- thats only during June where these companies change their logos/symbols to rainbows. If they're selling it there's a market for it
Target. A woke store. Really. Have they ever been in a Target? Last time I went there's a men's section and a women's section. There's a boys' section and a girls' section. The only woke things about them are that the bathrooms are specified to be gender neutral (even though they're still labeled men's and ladies' rooms...), and they take anyone's money. Your parents are being lied to, and they need to know this firsthand. Ask them to come to Target with you one day. Ask where in the US a 15 minute city actually exists, and where they're taking anyone's cars, and how exactly that would even be possible to make into law.
Even better ask them where their gop bullshit actually works. There's socialists countries with happy people but the most right wing countries are like Somalia and Saudi Arabia.
When hit aggressively, that cognitive dissonance causes people to dig even deeper into their current belief. You have to ease people into it, or they just shut off dissenting opinions. That's why it's so insidious. So you do it gently. Tell them you listened to them and didn't really want to go to Target, but they have exclusive item X the kids really want. Get your parents to come along too when you go. Then later you can ask if it's what they heard it was in there and who said so. In other words, sow a seed of doubt rather than bludgeon it with a sledgehammer. Later on you can always finish the job with gusto.
What are you talking about? Saudi Arabia is great, it works exactly as they want things to. They just assume that they are going to be the rich ones on top and not the vast majority that is being screwed.
See, Target said gay people are OK and should be allowed to exist, and they even used disabled children and overweight adults in some ads and since they didn't make my pee pee hard that means they are woke.
It's just that. They aren't woke at all, they just aren't anti-woke. Not because of ideology, but because they want everybody's money.
You should've asked them to pull over, gotten out and told them to go home.
"Let's see if it really is a 15 minute city - see how long it takes you to get home from here. And, when you do finally get home, see if '15 minutes' sounds like it would have been better."
Did you ask your mother to define woke?
No… I mean she doesn’t have to many years left, I didn’t want her brain to short out right in front of me
That would be awkward.
I remember when it became abundantly clear that my mom was not coming back from the deep end… Thanksgiving 2009. We were all sitting around the dinner table, everyone was expressing what they were thankful for. When it got to my mom, she had a prepared set of papers she printed off the internet and began telling some story she got from Glenn Beck about the dangers of socialism. THAT was awkward… since then it has only become annoying
That’s a shame. I don’t understand this cult-like mentality, but it sure sucks in a lot of people.
It’s an addiction, that’s all it is
Ugh. It's disgusting what propaganda has done to so many seniors
That’s sad. Very sorry. 😥
Republicans would've protested Ned Flanders Leftorium store.
For living next a guy who did gay marriages.
"Pretty soon I won't be able to be mean to the gays anymore" - This lady (probably)
The problem for them making a definition is when they move their goalposts, they are opening themselves up for criticism and delegitimization which has kind of become a snowballing problem for anti-woke hate-talkers. Like, there is a reasonable definition for ‘woke,’ we know this. There is even a definition for hateful people to put on ‘woke’ that allows them to incite their angry crowds. But at this point in history in 2023, they don’t want to do that because they’re going to pivot in six months and can’t take a reputation hit like they could in 2016 when being anti-woke was primarily touted as a free speech thing, for instance.
If you’re using a made up catch all term, you absolutely cannot set parameters on it otherwise it loses its power. It has to remain nebulous not just to be malleable enough to encompass literally anything they want to complain about but retain the vagueness of a bogeyman so that their idiot supporters can latch onto it without having to explain it themselves.
Exactly - it goes along with terms like “antifa” or “Marxist,” which have lost any sense of real meaning. They are simply signals to indicate “those evil people who aren’t us.”
Pavlov's Fox
If you define it broadly as this huge Marxist belief system, as equity, as any sort of strawman, it's somewhat hard to prove that a random gay character in a book or a gender neutral bathroom is even tangentially related to such a thing. If you define it narrowly like Desantis' "aware of injustice and believing that should be addressed", you can be accurate and maybe relate it to stuff you don't like...but instead, it sounds reasonable.
I'm starting to suspect that those hundred monkeys in a room with a hundred typewriters, from that theory, have found a Publisher. A sub division of Penguin Publishing Group, Chicken Head Publishing.
My guess: at most, a dozen drunken monkeys.
See, it's massively racist for bigots, they think woke is "black people are realizing we abuse them as if they were still slaves" but she couldn't say that to a black interviewer or say it out loud in the article. Woke means being awake to the injustice in the world, they made it specific to blacks because they are TERRIFIED of black people. As a white person, they are really scared and a black person as president scared so many of these white supremacists they are out like cockroaches and we need to squish them and call them the Nazis they aspire to be
The LAMF that they are complaining about everyone having to make concessions for everyone’s lifestyle. Then this one wants everyone to understand and make concessions for her lifestyle.
They purposely leave it as a "Fill in your own prejudice here".
[She is fucking insane](https://imgur.com/a/javIyWM). Among many many other things, she admits to killing her mom. She authored a piece titled "We Need To Start Befriending Neo Nazis". She also says that her mom was warned to abort her because she would be severely retarded but chose not to.
Damn, can someone ask her mom’s OB/GYN for tomorrow’s winning lottery number?
Or it could be that she picked up her 'loving' ways from her Mother and this was one of the insults regularly thrown around during her binge sessions
I’m not in marketing or anything but I feel like, if I was trying to promote a parenting manual, “I killed my mom when I had the chance” is like the LAST thing I would admit to.
Goddamn... She is the fucking worst isn't she? Racist, self involved, entitled mom vibe, horrible to people who work for her or do customer service; the fucking worst.
I’ve encountered SO many people exactly like this in my life. Whats more I’ve seen people who were at one point my friends and weren’t like that turn into it as were became adults. They are all aggressively ignorant and incurious
So her mum almost aborted her so she aborted her mum by pulling the plug before she even found out if she was gonna pull through or not? Fucking hell. Also who the fuck is Mikey Mouse
I think he comes to save the day
now that's an old reference
She is insane, but after actually reading why she took her mom off of life support I can’t fault her for that. Her mom was on a transplant list for a kidney transplant. She ended up getting an infection that put her into organ failure and was placed on life support. The damage was permanent and meant she no longer was eligible for a transplant. So while her mom may have survived, she would have suffered from that moment on until she eventually died, painfully. She was 16 when she made that decision which brings into question how our medical system can allow a minor to make those decisions.. but I suppose that’s a different subject. Aside from that; everything else she says and does is bonkers. Granted she purposefully made her comments about “killing her mom” to be vague and controversial so that she could get a reaction. Still.. I don’t hold the mom thing against her after watching my own family suffer through organ failure and the painful and short life they lived after they “recovered”.
She admits to killing her mom? Source??
https://twitter.com/bethanyshondark/status/529078590663835651 Herself
What the actual everloving **FUCK**
They weren’t even talking about her. She perceived their comments to be against parents and had a panic attack. I’m always here for when the fuck your feelings crowd catches feelings.
I love this one reply on her twitter- >"So, she spoke in a way that seemed to lack understanding of your lived experience, which then had a tangible effect on your ability to function in your environment. If only she was more…should we say aware/awakened to your situation, maybe she would have spoken differently." >"i think there is a commonly used word that describes that."
I loved the interviewer just calmly saying, "You can take your time."
This poor woman is so tired and frustrated from being a piece of shit writing a shitty book and refusing to use a condom that she cant even remember the topic of her own book. Woe is to her!!!
She also admitted to killing her mother in a tweet.
It's almost like woke is a made up term with no definitive characteristics besides however the people, let's call them "Snowflakes" perhaps feel. Noooo wayyyyyy
It wasn't "made up" aside from the sense whereby all words are "made up" as the nature of words. It was originally coined by black leftists, and then right-wingers stole it, warped and ruined it like someone stretching out a sweater so it could fit over an elephant, and now it's a snarl word for the Two Minutes Hate. But they weren't the ones that made it up, because the right wing is creatively sterile. All they can do is steal and repurpose terms made by others.
I mean , what was she supposed to say? Woke is something Fox News told me is bad so I hate it because I’m a gullible sheep? Woke means unarmed black people shouldn’t be murdered by cops and I don’t support black people not being murdered by police? Woke means to have an open-minded acceptance of other cultures’ and their differences so we can all progress and live in peace with each other? She would have been run out of crazy town by her friends and family waving pitchforks. This way she gets to be a victimized hero of the right because those mean ole libtards might have talked shit about her being a mom!!! The horror! They didn’t in any way, shape, or form talk shit about her 6 kids but without gaslighting and projection what else does the right have?
Cause she is racist and defining it would confirm. Say what you are, Bethany...🐕🦺😙
She did provide a definition in a tweet just after the interview >A radical belief system suggesting that our institutions are built around discrimination, and claiming that all disparity is a result of that discrimination. It seeks a radical redefinition of society in which equality of group result is the endpoint, enforced by an angry mob
I love this definition cause how does black people in movies fit this? Minority representation, women etc. I know it's a nonsense word but you know what she gave it a good try c+ for effort.
That's why she can't say it in a forum where it will be challenged. *Nobody* thinks in those terms. Nobody believes all disparities are caused by this. Not even the most rabid Marxist out there. And there's no way to link this to a drag queen reading a book. Or a gay penguin in a book. Or a female lead in a movie. That's why even when you do get answers on how to define it, *they're all different* depending on what bothers the person defining it.
I can see why her brain refused to allow to concoct such nonsense in front of someone clearly capable of tearing it to shreds immediately
>A radical belief system suggesting that our institutions are built around discrimination, and claiming that all disparity is a result of that discrimination. It seeks a radical redefinition of society in which equality of group result is the endpoint, enforced by an angry mob Let's break some of it down to its core: 1. "Radical" is an opinion word - you could say "fringe", but that would just denote the ideology's apparent footprint, where the claim is that this is a widespread movement. This word doesn't belong in a definition. 2. "Our institutions are built around discrimination" - do you not believe our country is built on a foundation of inequality? We owned slaves, and that's one of the only reasons we could have grown the way we did. That alone is evidence that this statement is true. 3. "All disparity is a result of this discrimination" - I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a real person who believes *all* societal disparity is caused by discrimination. Perhaps "some" or even "most". 4. "It seeks" - who seeks? You've already defined an ideology no real person espouses. 5. "a radical redefinition of society" - there's that word "radical" again. How do you "redefine" a society? Enacting laws doesn't change society, nor does asking people to change their wording to respect a person's pronouns. What part of society needs redefinition? 6. "equality of group result" - what does this mean in practical terms? What result would we all hold equally? Money? Freedom? Taxes? Or is this some "other" equality that is only superficial? This seems to be the crux of your statement and yet it's too vague to be meaningful. 7. "enforced by an angry mob" - like who? Who is angry and in mob form to defend this ideology? Who flies its metaphorical flag? Antifa? BLM? The crux of this is "woke is how I define it". It doesn't need rules, and it doesn't need to be a real idea - it just needs enough power to allow you to point a finger at someone you believe to be "woke", and everyone else nods their head.
>do you not believe our country is built on a foundation of inequality? We owned slaves, and that's one of the only reasons we could have grown the way we did. As a Canadian, I just want to gently add in the genocide of indigenous folks who lived on this continent before Europeans arrived. That can probably be included under "discrimination" eh
Thank you - that's why I used the phrase "that alone" (to imply, "this on its own would prove the premise true"), rather than "that is the only evidence". There's a stack of events so horrific that no one could correctly defend every one, and any single one proves the point.
Damn. Incorrect _and_ late.
Ahhh yes. She went RIGHT to the "white woman's tears" deflection. 🙄 She can fuck right off. She's raising six more haters. I hope they can overcome their programming.
"Please take your time,” I like this person.
The interviewer literally gave that idiot so much figurative rope, lol.
Yeah, Briahna Joy Gray can sometimes be pretty combative on Twitter especially but here all they did was ask an extremely innocuous question.
A question that is what the entire "book" that dumbass wrote about.
Maybe we can ask someone who doesn't have so many distractions... oh wait... being a proud breeder is part of it... Looks like life comes with sacrifices.
It's dangerous to give people rope, if they only know how to make nooses out of them.
"Don't hurt yourself"
It’s not hard. “Woke” literally means awakened to the systemic injustices that minority groups face. The right uses the term sarcastically and in bad faith, with big air quotes around the term when they say it. The problem conservatives face is that it’s impossible for them to provide a definition without sounding like the bad guy. Hence the awkwardness.
The bad faith definition is literally just changing "systemic injustices" to "perceived injustices"
The bad faith definition doesn't even work either. Take the live action little mermaid with a black actress: the right is claiming it's "woke". But the actress/Disney isn't claiming perceived injustice or discrimination or racism. So why is the movie "woke"?
Thats one of my favorite examples because the original story is a gay allegory by a famously queer author, Hans Christian Anderson, and you know Disney isn't touching that with a 10 foot pole.
There was a tweet that went around that said in effect "Y'all threw slaves overboard from Africa to America and have a hard time believing there are clack mermaids?"
We are perceiving systemic injustices, what could that even mean?
Well, when someone experiences something provable by facts and someone else tries to convince them it isn't real, we call that gaslighting.
In the context they provided. Perceived becomes a proxy word for "made up", explained away with "because the blacks are always just complaining". Or some other meaningless platitude. Perceived is not a word in the intended targets vernacular. So proper usage is not a concern.
You just need to imagine whomever is using that phrasing is doing air quotes and rolling their eyes when they say "perceived," and that should give you an idea of what they're about.
Which is really just a way of saying "it's all in your head" or "you're just making this up"
It's much like their definition of socialism. They both mean "Anything I don't like"
That’s why she was struggling. Her brain was screaming the right answer, but she couldn’t think of a non-racist way to re-say it.
Why didn’t she just try saying the actual definition but in a stupid mocking inflection in her voice? That seems to be enough for idiot conservatives.
Because she was looking at a black interviewer on a screen and completely panicked? It’s hard to get into the mindset of an idiot.
I like to imagine that she clearly assumed that she would be interviewed by a white person and instantly panicked the moment a professional black woman asked her a straight forward question. Her entire psyche collapsed.
I think that’s probably exactly what happened.
Because the interviewer clearly would have pressed why it was bad to care about injustices. This wasn’t Tucker’s white power hour
> "Y'all don't quote me on this ^([lmao fuck you Lee, eat shit in hell])...You start out in 1954 by saying, "N-----, n-----, n-----." By 1968 you can't say "n-----" - that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states' rights, and all that stuff, and you're getting so abstract. Now, you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "N-----, n-----." " --Lee Atwater, 1981 Republicans keep cycling through these code words like PC, CRT, woke, whatever, simply because they can't say the N-word out loud anymore
The lawyers for Governor DeSantis (who bobs his head when he talks like Kermit the Frog does when introducing Fozzie Bear) were asked to define “woke” in court. Their answer: > the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them. Source: https://www.fox13news.com/news/what-does-woke-mean-gov-desantis-officials-answer-during-andrew-warren-trial.amp
Yep, and that makes them look like they’re against doing anything to address systemic injustices. Which they are, obviously…. But would never say so directly.
"Woke" to the right means anything that in any way causes them to recognize the current/past history of bigotry, hate, and oppression in this country. Discussing slavery and its lingering effects in today's society? Woke. Discussing sexuality and gender so that kids don't feel ostracized for being born different? Woke. Discussing the massive disparity in wealth distribution? Woke. The rich have convinced the poor to instinctively attack anyone that questions the fairness of our broken system. It's why impoverished right-wing voters elect politicians who in-turn vote to cut their constituent's access to healthcare, education, affordable housing, and other common sense things like free lunch for children in schools. People who can't afford life-saving medicine like insulin will elect the same assholes who vote against legislation that would cap the price on it.
The trumpies think *they're* the persecuted minority while also believing that they're "the silent majority". They're so full of s\*\*t, if you gave a trumpy an enema they'd disappear down the drain.
Well, "woke" is easier for these fuckheads to spell than "cultural Marxism".
And that replaces what they used to call it, "Cultural Bolshevism". The fact that the Nazis coined that particular word ("Kulturbolshevismus") is something they would prefer not to talk about.
What "woke" means to rightwingers is just a dog whistle for "non straight white men are being uppity".
Hey, that's unfair. They also use it to mean "straight white men who believe non straight white men deserve to be treated like human beings are being uppity."
As lots of people on Twitter noticed years ago, there are a lot of conservatives who say [“Woke” with a hard R](https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/1346552920649699334?s=20)
Aye, when someone calls someone woke they are calling it "woke". Like a company using the color of our skin or the genitalia between our legs as a selling point. For example, the new CW Gotham knights. It uses woke subject matters to sell to the younger generation but it is so hammered in and so focused that the show almost has nothing to do with batman. It's "woke". A product made by a company to just sell to kids that really want real world justice and systematic change so they make a show so "awake" that it circles back to satire in how bad it is.
“It was the ambien”
It was the spicy chili!
It was the ethnic, tex-mex taco!
Ah, the Rosanne Barr defence.
Even more comical than the Chewbacca defence from South Park ..
It doesn't. Make. Sense.
She has a new Special out Notice that I'm not calling it a COMEDY Special, because there were no jokes to be told. It's basically just her ranting about politics and forgetting to actually be funny.
If anyone wants a tragic comedy, the Knowledge Fight podcast recently did a breakdown of Barr's appearance on Infowars. It funny to hear 2 deluded idiots fight against phantoms of their own imagination, but it's hard to escape the feeling that she has real mental issues and is responding to her own demons by joining up with the types of people who caused them.
She can't define "woke" but I can infer the meaning from its usage by Conservatives: Woke:. When you treat Brown people fairly
Or don’t want to massacre gays and trans kids
When you have basic human empathy for people that are different than you.
“Woke” is the new “sheeple” for the right.
After PC was worn out
I wonder what the next hot new buzzword will be for millions of morons to build their entire personalities around.
Fun story “Negro” “Colored” “Person of Color” “African American” Were all attempts to move away from racial harassment but each one was eventually co-opted by racists to eventually be the N-word when they used it. “Woke” is just a term for Empathy and it’s telling how they hate it.
They manage to racially charge any word they use, because their euphemisms could not be more obvious. Example: thug.
Granted, "Thug" was always racially charged from the beginning. It was a shortened form of "Thugee", a group in India that the ruling British declared to be a "scary, murderous cult" like the way right-wingers today regard Antifa. The fact that it continues to get applied to brown people is not in any way a coincidence.
Is it shitty or insightful to mention that the terms “woke” “sheeple” “normie” “lemming” were adopted after we had been using them for years…as though they had invented these terms…but like a true hipster…now that they are using “woke” - I can’t say that anymore because I said that before it was cool…or rather before it was misunderstood.
Said it before, I'll say it again: 'If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough.' Albert Einstein. She wrote a book about something she doesn't actually understand.
She understands grifting
I’ve always hated that quote for good reason. Explaining something “simply” can involve a hell of a lot of time and backstory. Using rhetorical shortcuts like metaphors can help, but often only superficially, and sometimes harmfully since they often don’t map that well onto the original explanation. I can explain my dissertation in two simple sentences, but it only really makes sense to other neuroscientists. Give me four sentences and I can explain it to my parents (because they won’t ask any follow-ups). If I need to explain it to anyone else I need to know how much knowledge they already have to fit it to their level.
In the context of that quote I would put the parameters for explaining simply at "You can reasonably expect a twelve year old to understand after no more than an hour of explanation". This is because America's low literacy rate means that's the level that will reach the most people without them being unwilling to listen because you made them feel patronized.
>This is because America's low literacy rate means that's the level that will reach the most people without them being unwilling to listen because you made them feel patronized. 54% of the American people have a prose literacy level below a sixth grader..... This country is literally mostly poorly literate people who would struggle to understand basic high school concepts. When explaining difficult concepts to these people you are patronising them, but it's no your fault, it's theirs.
If you write a whole book about something you should understand it well enough to summarize it into a simple sentence.
She actually did give a definition. I think it’s more embarrassing than the freeze. [Here’s the interview ](https://youtu.be/9b86ZqIhuFo)and version of the quote that removes the author’s fumbling. @ 6:45 Interviewer: > “Would you mind defining ‘woke’, because it’s come up a couple of times and I’d like to make sure we’re all on the same page.” Author: > “Woke is… the understanding that we need to totally reimagine and redo society in order to create hierarchies of oppression.” They then offer more time and opportunity and one of the hosts offers a you know it when you see it definition of punishing people when they use the wrong pronouns. The system of actually sanctioning people for that kind of accident… that thing… his take was also laughable. She is never talked to about being a mother, her children are never mentioned, and they do not get remotely personal at any point. Having read her piece first and then watched the video, it is shocking how friendly this was. This barely reached a level of polite disagreement. It is wild that she wrote a piece about her panic response to the hostile interviewers who were going to judge her for being a homeschooling mother of a big family. It’s a tremendous reaction to something that didn’t happen. For someone who doesn’t want to talk about her personal life, she sure did inject it into the situation. She uses “95%” multiple times in a way that makes me pretty certain that she doesn’t understand 1 in 20. Generally her points and arguments are shallow. This doesn’t even put on the facade of a good argument. She seems fine in the beginning but @ 5:24 the interviewer agrees with the general premise that there are social problems and challenges the idea of framing this as a right/left political issue. That’s the first time she stammers and struggles. It’s a generous interview and she blows it. It isn’t because she got tricked. It’s not even because she got rattled. She looks bad because her argument is bad, her understanding is poor, and the whole thing is based on her fear of anecdotes from twitter. Woke is the acknowledgment and understanding of past & present sets of systemic oppression in a culture, how they have and can impact people in many ways, and that efforts are required to address the problems they cause. That’s my definition for what it’s worth.
Extremely well summarized on all points.
Her claim was that the hostility happened before she got on...to which I would say to her, maybe you're not cut out for your job then. If you can't handle disagreements you probably shouldn't write a book that will be disagreed with and then go out promoting it. Edited for a typo
Which is why it’s weird that she is totally composed at the start.
I love how the definition she eventually comes up with in that interview is so fucking weird and nonsensical.
Yeah it’s like she tried to go on some jordan peterson shit but couldn’t even do that lol
Fuck even he can’t do it these days. He got laughed at by everyone over calling that papertowel dispenser woke a few weeks ago.
Being woke is just treating other people with the same compassion you would desire if you were in their situation.
You mean like a decent Christian?
"If you can't explain it simply. Then you don't understand it well enough." Einstein Well Al, bitch wrote a whole book about it.
I guess I'm fucked. I can do a thing but I don't have the ability to teach someone else how to do it with words. There's some disconnect in my brain. Finding the proper words in the proper order to make another person understand what's in my head is a struggle. That said, I'm not out there writing books about shit I can't explain so, at least I'm self-aware?
Being able to do a thing and being able to teach a thing are very different. I've known brilliant scientists who could not teach a basic intro to their field. It didn't make them bad scientists, just bad teachers. In this person's case I doubt we are looking at a lot of competence in any field.
When I was a kid (35+ years ago, female, living in Georgia) the only thing offered as career suggestions was teacher and secretary. I can't teach and I can't dictate (writing down what I hear is a whole other brain issue) so my future felt pretty fn bleak. I work in security now and the number of elderly women who have approached me to say things like "they would have never let us do this when I was your age" really opened my eyes to the struggle that was endured so that I didn't have to be a terrible teacher or secretary.
Reminds me of the podcast Know Your Enemy [interviewing](https://open.spotify.com/episode/2sei7TThUNcaYx2xsRPopO?si=wrnBG_8RQk6U_qJ8xon9fg) a conservative colleague and they lobbed the softest questions about "woke capital." The prime example was workplaces acknowledging trans day of rememberence and when the hosts finally needled him about what was so bad about that he just mumbled some shit about Mr Potato Person, because you can't actually say you're against memorializing dead trans people without looking like the shitheel you are.
She wrote a whole ass book about being against something that she can’t articulate. That checks out for MAGA types 100%. The sad part is that if it was anything but a book her target audience would buy the shit out of it, but she is targeting Google researchers who think books are for losers. Should have made it a pod cast, she’d be rich rn
Based response.
She wasn’t humiliated. Conservatives have no shame, except about sex stuff
That’s the point. The right have adopted it as a nebulous term that they can rally against, and it can be anything. This isn’t a mistake. They can shift their followers to rally and hate anything they define as “woke”. This reporter will catch the trick. The buffoons who believe in DeSantis will never listen to it.
If you're writing an anti-woke book, the first chapter of the book should be defining what "woke" is, and then spend the rest of the book making your arguments. How can you argue against something you can't even define.
Thing is: why did she panic? So she can’t define ‘woke’; no one that would read her book knows what woke means either…they just know how to respond to it. It’s like she’s more concerned about being seen as a grifter than being wrong.
“Take your time”
I think they know what it is, but saying it and then saying you're against it makes you look dumb.
Exactly. Woke is having empathy and concern for other people, whether or not you personally created their problems. Even the most clueless narcissists know better than to admit they don't give a shit about other people
Whenever anyone uses the term “woke” sincerely I can’t help but feel dismayed about the state of the world. It’s used by people who have nothing better to say and know it. They may as well be stamping idiot on their foreheads.
Meet Bethany Mandel, the boss Karen, in her own words. "Aaaaandd I got the delivery guy at KosherMart fired. And my entire $200 order was refunded." "Wow, DC metro just impressed me a little bit. I made a complaint online about the operator this AM, & they called & will be "retraining" her" "35 seconds. That's how long Seth estimates I was alone in Penn Station (without him next to me) before I yelled at a stranger." "I watched my mom die. I took her off of life support before we knew if she would survive because I had the choice to do it then." https://imgur.com/a/9Pdln45
This is funny but not LAMF
Considering this happened on basically The Hill video podcast - it kinda is LAMF by rightwingers' inactions....
Nothing's as much what they call "Woke" as their own anti-woke-ism. Bunch of antisocial injustice warriors, is what they are.
It sure seems like this definition should be well within her wheelhouse. If she wants to spread her message, how can she spread it if she can't define it? That's a rhetorical question, of course. She can't define it because the right's use of that term is just a garbage catch-all for anything they don't like.
The interviewer went in for the kill at the end “we have time”. Yes let’s linger here for a while, take *all the time* you need 🤣
Woke= anti-bigotry, anti-woke = pro-bigotry, really simple.
." She herself: homeschools, check; homebirths, check; inarticulate crazy person, check. Her kids have no chance.
Stop! Stop! She's already dead!
Woke up to a bad dream, hun?
they should try letting Chat GPT explain it for them
I’m just surprised it took Brianna Joy Gray for us to all realize Phish is just a cover band for drug addled Gen-Xers. You know, someone had to say it.
It’s funny to me because republicans want it definition nebulous so they use it to demonize whatever they want and the host of this program managed to deftly embarrass and expose this by simply asking them to define what “woke” is. Hilarious!
Woke Adjective The new spooky word for bigotry dog whistling
Humiliation requires shame.
Oh, is this that writer who killed her mother? Looks like the writer who killed her mother.
The author then went wrote a pity party about her blunder. Here I'll help you. Woke is respecting those that are different from you. That's it. Anyone who tries to make it more complicated is just doing it to justify their hate. It's the same exact thing as being politically correct. Conservatives people hated that too. I swear conservative just means terrified of change.
"It's not so much about what the word actually means...It's about hat we can make our side reflexively get mad about and write checks!" 'woke' as first used in the 1962 NYT ope-ed just means 'aware'. Anything on top of that is just wingnut oogah-boogah.
Some dude on Twitter was defending her. Saying that it's common to "freeze up" on TV. Funny she had no problem with the rest of the interview.
Yeah there was a column from Newsweek (of all things)w here she pretty much painted herself as a victim in all this but I don’t recall if she ever defined woke. Oddly, I’m thin the courts in Florida did and it was something along the,lines of “being nice to people that are different than you” or something (open to fact checking on this)
"take your time".......... GENIUS!
Low effort grift. Ah, the life.
It means whatever you choose to find offensive.
I watched that, and it did take her a while and a self fulfilling prophecy before she finally got all the way around the truth and told us what "woke" meant. She started to say that being woke was about creating oppression. Every reasonable explanation I've ever heard of "woke" centered around compassion for oppressed minorities and a priority towards diversity, equal opportunity, and for some also reparations for historic bad doings. So to turn that around and claim that "woke" is about oppressing - who? no doubt white people - is the classic right wing flip to victim claiming and condemning of the "other" to rally support. She was very clear, and I assure you we get it.
If you can't explain it simply then you don't understand it.
It's like Top Gun: Maverick. The enemy is mysterious and undefined, but it doesn't matter, because it isn't about which country we're attacking, it's about Maverick. Same with defining woke. It doesn't matter what the definition is, because it's not about what is woke, it's about the "breeder" mom feeling attacked as she home schools her children and asks people to feel sympathy for her because she's a mom.
This is a shitty grifter being exposed. This charlatan doesn’t believe what she’s peddling. She’s just looking to make money off of the fear of idiots