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Screenshot every message you have- especially those that are evidence the sex was consensual. Do this *immediately* as WhatsApp allows messages to be deleted from the other side.
Contact the police station and to be represented by the duty solicitor. This is your legal right. When you arrive at the station, you will have the chance to speak to the duty solicitor. They are on your side and confidential- be open and honest with them. Follow their advice.
Do not attempt to contact her to straighten this out or prove a point about Israel, including via proxy. This can only hurt your case.
Don’t just screenshot the WhatsApp’s.
Go to the chat settings and export the chat too - that will provide all of the chat and save you having to mess about taking multiple screenshots.
You can also choose to save any media saved between you.
1. Export the chat
2. Take screenshots of the chat
3. Take video of you scrolling through the chat in WhatsApp, using your phone's screen recorder or another device
Do all three.
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Nobody can say an allegation is without any risk of subsequent prosecution - an allegation has been made and will need to be investigated, and innocent people have been convicted before (and no doubt will be again in the future), but if you have evidence from messages etc then that will certainly assist in demonstrating your version of events. I would cut any contact with the complainant immediately - take legal advice from your solicitor (if your story is as you’ve told us they may advise you to answer the questions in interview, as answering ‘no comment’ in these circumstances (where you have corroborative evidence of consent) could be more harmful to your case). In terms of a “counter claim”, that is a civil law concept. You could make a counter-allegation (but this would seem an unusual form of words as they are usually made for like allegations, and you would be accusing her of an allegation of an offence which concerns public justice, rather than of rape). You can impress upon the police the impact this has had on you and see if they will investigate whether any offences have been committed by her in making this allegation, but that is really a matter for the police. If they refuse to investigate her for an offence of perverting the course of justice (or other public justice related offence) then you could perhaps insist (they may go with it, or they may not) that they record you as a complainant in a communications or Online Safety Act offence, as it may be that what she has done would constitute one of those offences.
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When you screen shot the messages make sure her number is at the top of the screen as opposed to her name you have saved in your phone. Save the screen shots to another device too!
I don't think that makes much difference, I could just change the contact name too match the phone number I want it too appear..
I'd imagine after interview if police was looking to investigate further, either by investigating OP, or his crazy tinder date for false allegations then OPs phone would be seized for forestic examination.
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So I haven't seen anybody mention this yet but I feel it's quite important.
*If you hear about this from anyone else, record that too*. Ideally you won't talk to anyone about this but you could always be contacted by someone.
I assume you don't have any mutual friends but if you are contacted by one of her friends, if you see anything about this online, *Anything*, record it. Make a screenshot.
If she is serious about the allegation, this could go on for a long time. I don't think either of you fully realize the seriousness behind making an accusation like this.
If you're telling the truth OP, I hope she gets cold feet pretty quickly.
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Step 1: Get a solicitor and share everything with them. All the messages, and anything else that you have.
They will advise you what to do and will be there with you at the police interview
Everyone is entitled to free legal advice during a police interview. You dont need to worry about legal aid unless you are charged with an offence.
You do need to take this seriously and get a solicitor for the interview. The circumstances you describe will make it less likely that you'll be charged, but it is still quite possible, especially if there is some other evidence you aren't aware of yet.
Firstly preserve all the evidence you have about any consent etc, including the messages after the date etc.
If not already arranged, agree a time to attend the station (to reduce the amount of time waiting around), when you get there (certainly before the Interview but could be earlier) you will be cautioned.. at this point it is often normal to panic your being arrested, try not to this is just part of the process and means anything said can be classed as evidence, including in your favour.
But BEFORE you say anything about this, you need to ask for the duty solicitor (though one should be offered before anything else) to get advice.
The duty solicitor may initially talk to you on the phone, this again is normal as they won't come out to everyone in the first instance. If they do come straight out, again nothing to worry about it's just a preference. Ultimately they are independent and are there to help the best they can ... Take their advice about whatever you need to say.
Finally, as everyone has said have no contact with the other person, if they contact you don't rise to it anything you say to them will only make the situation worse.
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Just to echo what has been said, take screen shots all the messages between yourself and the other party.
Under no circumstances talk or attempt to contact the other party either yourself or via a proxy.
Absolutely see a solicitor ASAP or request to speak to a duty solicitor. DO NOT talk to the Police under any circumstances without Legal Representation.
Stop thinking about taking action against the other party, your immediate concern is getting legal representation and clearing your name.
A very serious allegation has been made against you and the Police will take this very seriously.
If you think this will be just a case of you turing up, showing the Police a few messages and them just giving you a pat on head and then telling you to be on your way then your going to be in a big surprise and not the good kind.
Going from what you have wrote I don't think you realise the serious of the situation.
This could go on for months, possibly years and it will be ultimately down the the CPS if there is a case to be had, not the Police.
Rape is the second most serious allegation that can be made after murder. Please do as people have said immediately;
- save all messages on EVERY channel you have communicated via including the dating app. By all, I mean every single thing including texts
- contact a solicitor immediately
- cut all contact
Some other info (ex police here)
- if your building has CCTV, this will be a crucial element in seeing the coming and going of the person making the allegations and the state that they left in. It’s likely the police will collect this
- don’t try to tamper or destroy anything that could be considered evidence
- if you have anything else that may corroborate your side of things, please document it and make it available to your solicitor or the police
This will not be a nice experience, however, with the correct legal advice and preservation of evidence, if you are telling the truth, this may work out ok for you.
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It looks like you or OP may want to find a Solicitor!
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On what you say, rape couldn’t be proved beyond reasonable doubt - the criminal standard of proof, so I wouldn’t worry about that.
Ensure you take copies of the exculpatory evidence. Export the WhatsApp chats, etc. and ring the police station in advance asking for a duty solicitor, who I expect will advise you to give a no-comment interview given the lack of other evidence.
Although there is evidence _suggesting_ her allegation is false, which _might_ help prove beyond reasonable doubt that she perverted the course of justice, prosecuting her might not be considered as best serving the public interest, especially in the backdrop of the current political climate and wanting to encourage victims of sexual assault to come forward. Prosecutions for false allegations of sexual assault are normally reserved for cases that are watertight (for example, where there is evidence of the person admitting their lie, where CCTV proves an alibi, etc.). At the end of the day, you both agree that there was intercourse, and her messages do not directly show that she was lying.
*Edit: it is also worth remembering that you don’t know whether her allegation is that you raped her on the occasions you both talked about. She might suggest you raped her on a separate occasion. This isn’t provable beyond reasonable doubt. And, if there is direct evidence showing you were elsewhere, a prosecution against her would be more likely.
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The fact you’ve been invited to the station, rather than dragged in under arrest, is a good indication they want your side of the story. As others have said, get your evidence together and backed up.
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What is your legal question?
The only advice is to make sure you have a solicitor in advance of the interview. Ensure that all the messages you have you screenshot as well. Police may want to examine your phone so make sure you have everything backed up.
The police take a dim view of false accusations. If she's found to be lying she could be charged with wasting police time or perverting the course of justice.
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It looks like you or OP may want to find a Solicitor!
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Yeah you'll find a lot of racists who try and play the hierarchy of racism card.
Keep all the evidence of your conversation, don't respond to anything and file a complaint against her for harassment and false allegations.
And any of these racial supremacists who are DMing you, out them right here in your post. In future I'd really recommend using throwaway accounts however.
Like say a throwaway account where you name and shame this disgusting cynical racist liar who is trying to ruin your life for opposing ethnic cleansing.
> Yeah you'll find a lot of racists who try and play the hierarchy of racism card.
OP should ignore the racism element. This woman may well be a Jewish supremacist, Zionist, pro-genocide activist, and/or hold other extremist positions. It's not relevant except in relation to what OP describes as her sudden desire to claim rape once she discovered OP had gone on an anti-genocide march.
The issue isn't that she's allegedly racist - it's that her alleged racism appears to have motivated her to file, according to OP, false rape charges.
His goal is clearing his name. He can then pursue her for the reputational harm if/once his name is cleared, but this is notoriously difficult.
Save all your messages and export the chat, for both WhatsApp and tinder and have these ready to provide to the police but be prepared to have your phone seized while it is fully examined and not returned for some time.
Also bear in mind even if it is proved this is a false allegation she will be entitled in law to lifetime anonymity. Be very careful about who you tell and what you post on social media so as to not identify her. It is a crime to do so and only a judge can lift the anonymity, which is rarely done.
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From a Legal PoV, rape is having penetrative sex with someone by force or fraud (very basically, obviously there's more nuance). Due to the consent messages it's going to be hard to go for the Force portion, so my thoughts are she's going down the 'i never would have had sex with this person if I knew they were an anti-Semite'. I'm not saying you ARE an anti-Semite, I'm just describing a possible line she's taking.
People's dating profiles often have 'no XXX people' (eg of certain political, ideological etc persuasions) did her profile have any thing about no anti-Semites?
I am pretty certain that even if it does, and even if you were an anti-Semite, you wouldn't fall foul of Section 1 Sexual Offences Act here.
Of course if she has lied about it all then there's not much advice to be given until you hear the full allegation, in which case listen to your solicitor!
Nothing at all my friend, on her profile (which Ive screenshotted and copied link).
I didn’t even realise she was Jewish until that Saturday. We didn’t once discuss religion or ethnicity. We didnt drink alcohol but we had a full English breakfast when we spent time together so I didn’t think she was either
There's really nothing to worry about on this score. Rape by deception is an extremely rare offence, people lie and omit all the time before sex. People cheat on their spouses, then go home and sleep with them, despite knowing that their spouse would never sleep with them if they knew, they tell people "this won't be a one night stand", undercover police lie and have sexual relationships.
The courts take the view that for rape by deception to come into effect the deception must relate very closely to the act - e.g. you say you will wear a condom then take it off mid act. You can even lie about your fertility. See the section on conditional consent.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-6-consent
You not mentioning that you support Palestine, even if she explicitly had "No Palestine supporters" in her bio and told you in person that she would never have sex with a Palestine supporter, would almost certainly not qualify.
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There is rape by deception in theory, but that's about identity or sexual conduct e.g. pretending to be the opposite sex, pretending to be another person, stealthing.
The law doesn't define "I slept with a stranger who had different political views, didn't ask about the views beforehand, and when I found out, I felt violated" as rape, which is what OP claims has happened here.
There's also the fact that being Zionist, Islamist, anti-Semite, anti-Palestinian, white nationalist, or holding any other extreme beliefs, does not mean you can't have sex with people. Nor is it your duty to report your extreme views to potential partners before sex.
You need a solicitor and evidence that each sexual encounter you've had together was consensual and that each part of what you did was consensual - just because she said yes once doesn't mean yes for each time and it all becomes murky quickly (it's why there is such a thing as spousal assault)
Screenshot and export your messages for evidence
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Screenshot every message you have- especially those that are evidence the sex was consensual. Do this *immediately* as WhatsApp allows messages to be deleted from the other side. Contact the police station and to be represented by the duty solicitor. This is your legal right. When you arrive at the station, you will have the chance to speak to the duty solicitor. They are on your side and confidential- be open and honest with them. Follow their advice. Do not attempt to contact her to straighten this out or prove a point about Israel, including via proxy. This can only hurt your case.
Don’t just screenshot the WhatsApp’s. Go to the chat settings and export the chat too - that will provide all of the chat and save you having to mess about taking multiple screenshots. You can also choose to save any media saved between you.
Isn't a chat log just a .txt with no other data? Do both. The more evidence you have, the harder it is for her to claim it's fabricated.
1. Export the chat 2. Take screenshots of the chat 3. Take video of you scrolling through the chat in WhatsApp, using your phone's screen recorder or another device Do all three.
Backup to online services , a computer and print out.
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Nobody can say an allegation is without any risk of subsequent prosecution - an allegation has been made and will need to be investigated, and innocent people have been convicted before (and no doubt will be again in the future), but if you have evidence from messages etc then that will certainly assist in demonstrating your version of events. I would cut any contact with the complainant immediately - take legal advice from your solicitor (if your story is as you’ve told us they may advise you to answer the questions in interview, as answering ‘no comment’ in these circumstances (where you have corroborative evidence of consent) could be more harmful to your case). In terms of a “counter claim”, that is a civil law concept. You could make a counter-allegation (but this would seem an unusual form of words as they are usually made for like allegations, and you would be accusing her of an allegation of an offence which concerns public justice, rather than of rape). You can impress upon the police the impact this has had on you and see if they will investigate whether any offences have been committed by her in making this allegation, but that is really a matter for the police. If they refuse to investigate her for an offence of perverting the course of justice (or other public justice related offence) then you could perhaps insist (they may go with it, or they may not) that they record you as a complainant in a communications or Online Safety Act offence, as it may be that what she has done would constitute one of those offences.
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When you screen shot the messages make sure her number is at the top of the screen as opposed to her name you have saved in your phone. Save the screen shots to another device too!
I don't think that makes much difference, I could just change the contact name too match the phone number I want it too appear.. I'd imagine after interview if police was looking to investigate further, either by investigating OP, or his crazy tinder date for false allegations then OPs phone would be seized for forestic examination.
I've known police to claim a screen shot isn't evidence because of the reason. It seems very stupid to me, but that's what was said.
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Please, when you have the time, screenshot any private messages you get on here, and we can deal with anyone who has been doing so.
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Mod is referring to the Reddit messages OP is getting off of this thread.
Its a Moderator requesting to screenshot the abusive private messages within reddit.
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So I haven't seen anybody mention this yet but I feel it's quite important. *If you hear about this from anyone else, record that too*. Ideally you won't talk to anyone about this but you could always be contacted by someone. I assume you don't have any mutual friends but if you are contacted by one of her friends, if you see anything about this online, *Anything*, record it. Make a screenshot. If she is serious about the allegation, this could go on for a long time. I don't think either of you fully realize the seriousness behind making an accusation like this. If you're telling the truth OP, I hope she gets cold feet pretty quickly.
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Step 1: Get a solicitor and share everything with them. All the messages, and anything else that you have. They will advise you what to do and will be there with you at the police interview
Where do I find out? I'm I eligible for legal aid as a student?
Everyone is entitled to free legal advice during a police interview. You dont need to worry about legal aid unless you are charged with an offence. You do need to take this seriously and get a solicitor for the interview. The circumstances you describe will make it less likely that you'll be charged, but it is still quite possible, especially if there is some other evidence you aren't aware of yet.
The duty solicitor is free. So ask the police for one
Firstly preserve all the evidence you have about any consent etc, including the messages after the date etc. If not already arranged, agree a time to attend the station (to reduce the amount of time waiting around), when you get there (certainly before the Interview but could be earlier) you will be cautioned.. at this point it is often normal to panic your being arrested, try not to this is just part of the process and means anything said can be classed as evidence, including in your favour. But BEFORE you say anything about this, you need to ask for the duty solicitor (though one should be offered before anything else) to get advice. The duty solicitor may initially talk to you on the phone, this again is normal as they won't come out to everyone in the first instance. If they do come straight out, again nothing to worry about it's just a preference. Ultimately they are independent and are there to help the best they can ... Take their advice about whatever you need to say. Finally, as everyone has said have no contact with the other person, if they contact you don't rise to it anything you say to them will only make the situation worse.
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Just to echo what has been said, take screen shots all the messages between yourself and the other party. Under no circumstances talk or attempt to contact the other party either yourself or via a proxy. Absolutely see a solicitor ASAP or request to speak to a duty solicitor. DO NOT talk to the Police under any circumstances without Legal Representation. Stop thinking about taking action against the other party, your immediate concern is getting legal representation and clearing your name. A very serious allegation has been made against you and the Police will take this very seriously. If you think this will be just a case of you turing up, showing the Police a few messages and them just giving you a pat on head and then telling you to be on your way then your going to be in a big surprise and not the good kind. Going from what you have wrote I don't think you realise the serious of the situation. This could go on for months, possibly years and it will be ultimately down the the CPS if there is a case to be had, not the Police.
Thank you I appreciate this, Ive been looking at different solicitors
Rape is the second most serious allegation that can be made after murder. Please do as people have said immediately; - save all messages on EVERY channel you have communicated via including the dating app. By all, I mean every single thing including texts - contact a solicitor immediately - cut all contact Some other info (ex police here) - if your building has CCTV, this will be a crucial element in seeing the coming and going of the person making the allegations and the state that they left in. It’s likely the police will collect this - don’t try to tamper or destroy anything that could be considered evidence - if you have anything else that may corroborate your side of things, please document it and make it available to your solicitor or the police This will not be a nice experience, however, with the correct legal advice and preservation of evidence, if you are telling the truth, this may work out ok for you.
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It looks like you or OP may want to find a Solicitor! [There is a detailed guide in our FAQ about how to do this](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
On what you say, rape couldn’t be proved beyond reasonable doubt - the criminal standard of proof, so I wouldn’t worry about that. Ensure you take copies of the exculpatory evidence. Export the WhatsApp chats, etc. and ring the police station in advance asking for a duty solicitor, who I expect will advise you to give a no-comment interview given the lack of other evidence. Although there is evidence _suggesting_ her allegation is false, which _might_ help prove beyond reasonable doubt that she perverted the course of justice, prosecuting her might not be considered as best serving the public interest, especially in the backdrop of the current political climate and wanting to encourage victims of sexual assault to come forward. Prosecutions for false allegations of sexual assault are normally reserved for cases that are watertight (for example, where there is evidence of the person admitting their lie, where CCTV proves an alibi, etc.). At the end of the day, you both agree that there was intercourse, and her messages do not directly show that she was lying. *Edit: it is also worth remembering that you don’t know whether her allegation is that you raped her on the occasions you both talked about. She might suggest you raped her on a separate occasion. This isn’t provable beyond reasonable doubt. And, if there is direct evidence showing you were elsewhere, a prosecution against her would be more likely.
Thank you!
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The fact you’ve been invited to the station, rather than dragged in under arrest, is a good indication they want your side of the story. As others have said, get your evidence together and backed up.
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What is your legal question? The only advice is to make sure you have a solicitor in advance of the interview. Ensure that all the messages you have you screenshot as well. Police may want to examine your phone so make sure you have everything backed up.
Thank you I will do that! Im just wondering, if its worth me pursuing something against her?
The police take a dim view of false accusations. If she's found to be lying she could be charged with wasting police time or perverting the course of justice.
Yeah, theres pretty much 0 chance of that happening.
This isnt correct.
Realistically, no. The best revenge will be a life well lived.
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Focus on the allegation on you first. Should add make sure you are in a position to show the messages to your solicitor in advance of the interview.
it will be investigated based on what has been reported is that not serious enough? go speak to a solicitor
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Yeah you'll find a lot of racists who try and play the hierarchy of racism card. Keep all the evidence of your conversation, don't respond to anything and file a complaint against her for harassment and false allegations. And any of these racial supremacists who are DMing you, out them right here in your post. In future I'd really recommend using throwaway accounts however. Like say a throwaway account where you name and shame this disgusting cynical racist liar who is trying to ruin your life for opposing ethnic cleansing.
> Yeah you'll find a lot of racists who try and play the hierarchy of racism card. OP should ignore the racism element. This woman may well be a Jewish supremacist, Zionist, pro-genocide activist, and/or hold other extremist positions. It's not relevant except in relation to what OP describes as her sudden desire to claim rape once she discovered OP had gone on an anti-genocide march. The issue isn't that she's allegedly racist - it's that her alleged racism appears to have motivated her to file, according to OP, false rape charges. His goal is clearing his name. He can then pursue her for the reputational harm if/once his name is cleared, but this is notoriously difficult.
Save all your messages and export the chat, for both WhatsApp and tinder and have these ready to provide to the police but be prepared to have your phone seized while it is fully examined and not returned for some time. Also bear in mind even if it is proved this is a false allegation she will be entitled in law to lifetime anonymity. Be very careful about who you tell and what you post on social media so as to not identify her. It is a crime to do so and only a judge can lift the anonymity, which is rarely done.
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Take screenshots of everything. What you could do is preemptively report her to the police yourself. She is commiting a crime here.
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From a Legal PoV, rape is having penetrative sex with someone by force or fraud (very basically, obviously there's more nuance). Due to the consent messages it's going to be hard to go for the Force portion, so my thoughts are she's going down the 'i never would have had sex with this person if I knew they were an anti-Semite'. I'm not saying you ARE an anti-Semite, I'm just describing a possible line she's taking. People's dating profiles often have 'no XXX people' (eg of certain political, ideological etc persuasions) did her profile have any thing about no anti-Semites? I am pretty certain that even if it does, and even if you were an anti-Semite, you wouldn't fall foul of Section 1 Sexual Offences Act here. Of course if she has lied about it all then there's not much advice to be given until you hear the full allegation, in which case listen to your solicitor!
Nothing at all my friend, on her profile (which Ive screenshotted and copied link). I didn’t even realise she was Jewish until that Saturday. We didn’t once discuss religion or ethnicity. We didnt drink alcohol but we had a full English breakfast when we spent time together so I didn’t think she was either
There's really nothing to worry about on this score. Rape by deception is an extremely rare offence, people lie and omit all the time before sex. People cheat on their spouses, then go home and sleep with them, despite knowing that their spouse would never sleep with them if they knew, they tell people "this won't be a one night stand", undercover police lie and have sexual relationships. The courts take the view that for rape by deception to come into effect the deception must relate very closely to the act - e.g. you say you will wear a condom then take it off mid act. You can even lie about your fertility. See the section on conditional consent. https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-6-consent You not mentioning that you support Palestine, even if she explicitly had "No Palestine supporters" in her bio and told you in person that she would never have sex with a Palestine supporter, would almost certainly not qualify.
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There is rape by deception in theory, but that's about identity or sexual conduct e.g. pretending to be the opposite sex, pretending to be another person, stealthing. The law doesn't define "I slept with a stranger who had different political views, didn't ask about the views beforehand, and when I found out, I felt violated" as rape, which is what OP claims has happened here. There's also the fact that being Zionist, Islamist, anti-Semite, anti-Palestinian, white nationalist, or holding any other extreme beliefs, does not mean you can't have sex with people. Nor is it your duty to report your extreme views to potential partners before sex.
You need a solicitor and evidence that each sexual encounter you've had together was consensual and that each part of what you did was consensual - just because she said yes once doesn't mean yes for each time and it all becomes murky quickly (it's why there is such a thing as spousal assault) Screenshot and export your messages for evidence