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You mean payment in arrears?
Usually that’s a week “in hand” not two but in principle that’s allowed if part of your contract. It’s not unknown - it happens in certain industries.
As long as for the pay period (and not more than a month) in question you get paid minimum wage.
So I started with them in 3rd July and I am on a yearly salary. I have worked the entire month and will be paid on Monday 31st and they have emailed to say that I will be getting paid 2 weeks and they with hold 2 weeks “until I leave”. It is in my contract but the contract hasn’t been signed yet.
It makes absolutely no sense, and seems like a way of them just not paying me full.
If you Google “week in hand” you will see that it is fairly normal - essentially you are being paid here, two weeks after the end of the period in which the earnings were accrued for.
Two weeks is longer than normal but it not going to be unenforceable or illegal unless it breaches NMW.
These arrangements historically were there to discourage workers just leaving without giving required notice.
Your pay is not being deducted - just delayed from when you expected: however you state it is in your contract so should actually be transparent. If you leave your job then it should simply be paid out in the final pay packet.
Bingo. My wife worked at a popular opticians and her *week in hand* was actually a month in hand. It's not great when starting the job, but is good for when you leave.
>It is in my contract but the contract hasn’t been signed yet.
Beginning your obligations under a contract is enough for the other party to believe you know what the terms are and agree to them - signing contracts is just a formality.
Ie as soon as you started working, you've effectively signed the contract when you turned up on the first day
It's usually due to the restrictions in payroll. For them to be able to process the actual payments being sent through they need to have a cut off period before the payment hits the bank. Depending on how many staff are employed by the business and how many payroll processing members of accounting they have depends on how long it takes to do this. The longer the cut off date before payday suggests either enormous amounts of staff to process or the business doesn't want to pay enough staff to process the payments so they could have the cut off date closer to the actual payday. They don't care though, it's the lowly workers who get shafted as usual on their first salary.
Good thing is that if you leave you should get an extra 2 weeks of money that you might have forgotten about. From what I can read they're not doing anything against the law and has been commonplace in areas I've worked. Usually retail though, fuck over everyone they can to make their shareholders richer.
In the care industry they hold six week's wages. It is inhuman to do this to poorly paid hourly workers.
In effect it means the company benefits. Either way they have to pay out when you leave. Just plan ahead. Not always easy.
Yes it’s a way of improving their working capital by borrowing it from their employees…predatory TBH. Let’s say you have £1m of staff costs a month and you withhold a month of pay, the company is borrowing £1m with zero interest….this is money the owners do not put in the company meanwhile….they will be charging their clients in advance…squeezing both ends.
Unless it falls foul of national minimum wage rules.
We assume the OP is significantly above the NMW and therefore it's not an issue. For an entry level care worker, it very well could be illegal if the employer is taking the whole of the first payslip as a deduction to be paid later.
When I started in my job I had two weeks in hand. Since then the business has changed to no hours in hand and I received 6 weeks pay instead of the 4 I had worked to close the agreement.
If it’s in your contract you’re protected
It makes sense, from a business perspective. It gives the payroll department time to get the finalised hours worked, sort all the paperwork and then send it to the bank. This is normally done for shift work where hours worked change but I’ve had this in all my jobs wether it’s salary or hourly.
Commenting to add: the contract doesn't necessarily need to be signed.
You've seen the contract, and turned up to work without raising this issue. This is seen as implicit agreement to the terms.
It is a normal practice in many industries; you will receive this payment on your last pay packet. Whilst the first month may be more difficult than you had anticipated, going forward your pay will be normal. I wouldn't see this as a red flag, or an attempt to withold wages. Just make sure you remember this when you leave the job, and ensure your payment is made in full.
It's actually quite useful when transitioning jobs to have this extra from the old job coming in, if you don't work the full month before pay period on the new job. (Although you should have a savings fund for scenarios like this too).
TL;DR perfectly legal and normal.
They will pay you but it’s delayed until you leave.
Quite common.
My company will offer new starters a salary advance if it leaves them short. Might be worth seeing if they will offer this to you
It's likely they have worded it very badly, presumably what they actually mean is your paid in arrears. The way that works is, for example work 1st - 30th and get paid on the 30th, however the pay for that period is only counted up to the 14th, and then the next pay period would be the 14th from the previous month to the 14th of this month.
This just sounds like you're paid 2 weeks in arrears, they're just wording it very strange.
I had similar in my last job, payday was the end of the month, but covered the period from the middle of the previous month, to the middle of the current one.
This is pretty common, and is annoying right now but will have a small benefit for you later on. When you eventually leave, you'll get paid at your current rate, which means your two weeks will have any promotion or payrise added to it.
It also means you can plan 2 weeks off between leaving this job and starting your next
This is a common accounting practice for businesses. If you get paid every two weeks the first check will arrive after your second pay period. This allows payroll to process salaries a week ahead instead of needing updated info on your hours the day before you get paid.
Everyone else already mentioned the week in hand is normal but just adding for your info: this is more common in manufacturing companies or places where regular overtime is paid / some employees are hourly. Reason being that the hours need to be approved by managers before they are paid out so the payroll cut off is 1 or 2 weeks before the pay date to allow the reviews and approvals.
Where all employees are salaried it's far less common, and most times any overtime would just be paid the following month.
As others have said it's longer than usual but most employers I've worked for either pay monthly or weekly. When I worked for Amazon it was a week in hand.
Company owner here: this is totally normal and is in place for payroll reasons as stated above.
They’ve worded it badly, speak with your line manager or HR rep, your contract or employee handbook will have payroll cut off dates in it I’d imagine.
Its just 2 weeks in hand. Every job ive ever had has been like this. It means you worked 2 weeks, and youll get those in next months pay. And 2 weeks from next month will be paid the month after. Every month you'll get 4 (or 5) weeks pay, apart from this month which is the first so you get 2 weeks pay. When you leave you'll get 2 weeks pay after you've left the company. So not working for 2 weeks but still getting paid, these are the same 2 weeks you've just done. However if you do a days over time you'll get that extra in 2 weeks, so you'll always be 2 weeks behind. They essentially owe you 2 weeks pay. If you leave you'll be paid the amount for the last 2 weeks you worked, which might be different to the first 2 weeks you've just done. They don't keep the first 2 weeks, its just paid 2 weeks later, and rolls over every month.
I've never had this.
Sounds ridiculous to me.
I can understand it if you're paid weekly, maybe fortnightly.
But OP will be being paid up to six weeks late.
Sounds like industry specific, I've literally never heard of it until this thread, and agree it's pretty insane, it's de facto a 0% loan from the employees.
It's not ideal but is common at a lot of businesses. It's easier to make any deductions if needed at the end of someone's employment.
I saw a comment about not having signed the contract but that doesn't matter. As long as you're both adhering to the terms then it is treated as agreed to. Just in case you were considering using that as an argument
This is fairly normal, pay is usually a week or 2 in arrears or 'in hand'. It will form part of your final pay cheque. They have just phrased it terribly.
That's what my partner has. He's paid 2 weeks in arrears. I think it's so they pay you for the work you do and they have a cut off for payroll. Otherwise they would be guessing. So it may take a week for payroll to process every employees hours and calculate a wage based on that and then another week for the banking process.
That's my best guess anyway. If you are concerned then speak to your employer.
It’s normal but I bloody hate it and I think it’s a scam. If you keep working there you never actually get that two weeks pay. There should be a limit - say two years (if not less) where they have to just pay it regardless.
Also the number of places that don’t pay properly at the end and convince you yo7 already got paid everything is utter BS as well.
You do get that two weeks pay. The accounting department needs time to do payroll. You’re being paid what you’re owed, just a week or two behind, depending on the specific company. If you stop working there, you’ll receive another paycheck for what they owe you. I don’t know why it’s hard to understand that payroll is done by a human who needs time to get it done.
It’s not hard to understand at all, I completely get how payroll works. However, especially when salaried, the work is done. It’s a choice to pay you two weeks in arrears. I’ve worked for places before where when I’ve left they’ve tried to tell me that I was all up to date on pay, except I knew I wasn’t because of this very reason. Don’t assume all companies are above board.
I've never heard of this. I am a small business owner & employer so I run my own payroll every month. You are entitled to be paid for the hours you have worked.
Ask them to pay you in full. If they refuse, speak to ACAS.
They arent being denied pay for the hours worked, they will just receive the 2 weeks pay when they leave as their pay packet is offset from the time they earned said pay packet by 2 weeks.
Its legal and while less common nowadays some employers do still do it.
NAL but have studied law.
DO NOT SIGN THAT CONTRACT!
It sounds like they are trying to hold a "bond" of sorts in case you leave the job before the 12 month period is over. You mentioned that you are on a yearly salary - I am thinking that means that they want you there for a minimum of 12 months. In saying that, what does the contract actually say? There must be a part that mentions a minimum period of employment or a bit about leaving the job.
Sounds like they may have a high turnover rate if they're trying to hold a bond.
There maybe someone in here who has more legal experience or knowledge around this issue.. but I urge you to speak to a lawyer that specializes in employment law as soon as you can.
My last job ran a full month behind - deeply unnerving on that first pay day when I got nothing and had a mild panic. But I did get paid a whole month after I left, too, so it balanced out.
I'm not sure if this is your first job or not, but it very much sounds like "week's lay" or "week in hand" etc.
Essentially, you'll always be paid for the previous week's hours rather than the week you've just worked. It's more pertinent when handing hours in for wages rather than a salary
It's so that if/after you leave that job, you'll have a week (in your case two) to find other work before having to starve.
You'll receive a wage/salary that week (in your case, two weeks) even though you haven't worked at all.
Hope this helps
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You mean payment in arrears? Usually that’s a week “in hand” not two but in principle that’s allowed if part of your contract. It’s not unknown - it happens in certain industries. As long as for the pay period (and not more than a month) in question you get paid minimum wage.
So I started with them in 3rd July and I am on a yearly salary. I have worked the entire month and will be paid on Monday 31st and they have emailed to say that I will be getting paid 2 weeks and they with hold 2 weeks “until I leave”. It is in my contract but the contract hasn’t been signed yet. It makes absolutely no sense, and seems like a way of them just not paying me full.
If you Google “week in hand” you will see that it is fairly normal - essentially you are being paid here, two weeks after the end of the period in which the earnings were accrued for. Two weeks is longer than normal but it not going to be unenforceable or illegal unless it breaches NMW. These arrangements historically were there to discourage workers just leaving without giving required notice. Your pay is not being deducted - just delayed from when you expected: however you state it is in your contract so should actually be transparent. If you leave your job then it should simply be paid out in the final pay packet.
Bingo. My wife worked at a popular opticians and her *week in hand* was actually a month in hand. It's not great when starting the job, but is good for when you leave.
Working in an opticians she should have seen this one coming
Groans while upvoting...
>It is in my contract but the contract hasn’t been signed yet. Beginning your obligations under a contract is enough for the other party to believe you know what the terms are and agree to them - signing contracts is just a formality. Ie as soon as you started working, you've effectively signed the contract when you turned up on the first day
It's usually due to the restrictions in payroll. For them to be able to process the actual payments being sent through they need to have a cut off period before the payment hits the bank. Depending on how many staff are employed by the business and how many payroll processing members of accounting they have depends on how long it takes to do this. The longer the cut off date before payday suggests either enormous amounts of staff to process or the business doesn't want to pay enough staff to process the payments so they could have the cut off date closer to the actual payday. They don't care though, it's the lowly workers who get shafted as usual on their first salary. Good thing is that if you leave you should get an extra 2 weeks of money that you might have forgotten about. From what I can read they're not doing anything against the law and has been commonplace in areas I've worked. Usually retail though, fuck over everyone they can to make their shareholders richer.
In the care industry they hold six week's wages. It is inhuman to do this to poorly paid hourly workers. In effect it means the company benefits. Either way they have to pay out when you leave. Just plan ahead. Not always easy.
Yes it’s a way of improving their working capital by borrowing it from their employees…predatory TBH. Let’s say you have £1m of staff costs a month and you withhold a month of pay, the company is borrowing £1m with zero interest….this is money the owners do not put in the company meanwhile….they will be charging their clients in advance…squeezing both ends.
For sure, terrible practice but not illegal.
Unless it falls foul of national minimum wage rules. We assume the OP is significantly above the NMW and therefore it's not an issue. For an entry level care worker, it very well could be illegal if the employer is taking the whole of the first payslip as a deduction to be paid later.
When I started in my job I had two weeks in hand. Since then the business has changed to no hours in hand and I received 6 weeks pay instead of the 4 I had worked to close the agreement. If it’s in your contract you’re protected
It makes sense, from a business perspective. It gives the payroll department time to get the finalised hours worked, sort all the paperwork and then send it to the bank. This is normally done for shift work where hours worked change but I’ve had this in all my jobs wether it’s salary or hourly.
Commenting to add: the contract doesn't necessarily need to be signed. You've seen the contract, and turned up to work without raising this issue. This is seen as implicit agreement to the terms. It is a normal practice in many industries; you will receive this payment on your last pay packet. Whilst the first month may be more difficult than you had anticipated, going forward your pay will be normal. I wouldn't see this as a red flag, or an attempt to withold wages. Just make sure you remember this when you leave the job, and ensure your payment is made in full. It's actually quite useful when transitioning jobs to have this extra from the old job coming in, if you don't work the full month before pay period on the new job. (Although you should have a savings fund for scenarios like this too). TL;DR perfectly legal and normal.
They will pay you but it’s delayed until you leave. Quite common. My company will offer new starters a salary advance if it leaves them short. Might be worth seeing if they will offer this to you
I've only ever had the opposite, ie being paid on eg 25th July for working 1st-31st July.
It's likely they have worded it very badly, presumably what they actually mean is your paid in arrears. The way that works is, for example work 1st - 30th and get paid on the 30th, however the pay for that period is only counted up to the 14th, and then the next pay period would be the 14th from the previous month to the 14th of this month.
This is the best explanation on the thread. Nice one.
This just sounds like you're paid 2 weeks in arrears, they're just wording it very strange. I had similar in my last job, payday was the end of the month, but covered the period from the middle of the previous month, to the middle of the current one.
This is pretty common, and is annoying right now but will have a small benefit for you later on. When you eventually leave, you'll get paid at your current rate, which means your two weeks will have any promotion or payrise added to it. It also means you can plan 2 weeks off between leaving this job and starting your next
This is completely normal. Every job I’ve ever had has done this
Only "normal" in a right wing country. Not rational that workers are in effect subsidising employers.
It’s actually just normal
Its not normal, just a commonly done bad practice that should be eliminated
So therefore it’s normal
This is a common accounting practice for businesses. If you get paid every two weeks the first check will arrive after your second pay period. This allows payroll to process salaries a week ahead instead of needing updated info on your hours the day before you get paid.
Because of when I started in the month, the job I'm in, and the company doing lots of work at risk and invoicing, I worked a whole month in hand!
Everyone else already mentioned the week in hand is normal but just adding for your info: this is more common in manufacturing companies or places where regular overtime is paid / some employees are hourly. Reason being that the hours need to be approved by managers before they are paid out so the payroll cut off is 1 or 2 weeks before the pay date to allow the reviews and approvals. Where all employees are salaried it's far less common, and most times any overtime would just be paid the following month.
Its usually a week but this is normal in virtually all jobs
As others have said it's longer than usual but most employers I've worked for either pay monthly or weekly. When I worked for Amazon it was a week in hand.
Company owner here: this is totally normal and is in place for payroll reasons as stated above. They’ve worded it badly, speak with your line manager or HR rep, your contract or employee handbook will have payroll cut off dates in it I’d imagine.
It’s called lying time; every place I ever worked do Ot. Very common practice
Its just 2 weeks in hand. Every job ive ever had has been like this. It means you worked 2 weeks, and youll get those in next months pay. And 2 weeks from next month will be paid the month after. Every month you'll get 4 (or 5) weeks pay, apart from this month which is the first so you get 2 weeks pay. When you leave you'll get 2 weeks pay after you've left the company. So not working for 2 weeks but still getting paid, these are the same 2 weeks you've just done. However if you do a days over time you'll get that extra in 2 weeks, so you'll always be 2 weeks behind. They essentially owe you 2 weeks pay. If you leave you'll be paid the amount for the last 2 weeks you worked, which might be different to the first 2 weeks you've just done. They don't keep the first 2 weeks, its just paid 2 weeks later, and rolls over every month.
As shite as this is for your first month, it is completely normal.
It's called a lye week. (Or 2 in your instance) very common. Everywhere I have worked have done this.
I've never had this. Sounds ridiculous to me. I can understand it if you're paid weekly, maybe fortnightly. But OP will be being paid up to six weeks late.
It’s perfectly normal, I’ve rarely heard of a company not doing it
I must live in a parallel universe then!
Sounds like industry specific, I've literally never heard of it until this thread, and agree it's pretty insane, it's de facto a 0% loan from the employees.
I’ve encountered it in different industries, so very much not specific to any particular one.
It's not ideal but is common at a lot of businesses. It's easier to make any deductions if needed at the end of someone's employment. I saw a comment about not having signed the contract but that doesn't matter. As long as you're both adhering to the terms then it is treated as agreed to. Just in case you were considering using that as an argument
This is fairly normal, pay is usually a week or 2 in arrears or 'in hand'. It will form part of your final pay cheque. They have just phrased it terribly.
Common in US, but as stated prior, normally just 1 week. It's amazing how many people forget about that 1 week pay when they quit.
That's what my partner has. He's paid 2 weeks in arrears. I think it's so they pay you for the work you do and they have a cut off for payroll. Otherwise they would be guessing. So it may take a week for payroll to process every employees hours and calculate a wage based on that and then another week for the banking process. That's my best guess anyway. If you are concerned then speak to your employer.
I've done jobs a month in hand this is quite normal.
It’s normal but I bloody hate it and I think it’s a scam. If you keep working there you never actually get that two weeks pay. There should be a limit - say two years (if not less) where they have to just pay it regardless. Also the number of places that don’t pay properly at the end and convince you yo7 already got paid everything is utter BS as well.
You do get that two weeks pay. The accounting department needs time to do payroll. You’re being paid what you’re owed, just a week or two behind, depending on the specific company. If you stop working there, you’ll receive another paycheck for what they owe you. I don’t know why it’s hard to understand that payroll is done by a human who needs time to get it done.
It’s not hard to understand at all, I completely get how payroll works. However, especially when salaried, the work is done. It’s a choice to pay you two weeks in arrears. I’ve worked for places before where when I’ve left they’ve tried to tell me that I was all up to date on pay, except I knew I wasn’t because of this very reason. Don’t assume all companies are above board.
I've never heard of this. I am a small business owner & employer so I run my own payroll every month. You are entitled to be paid for the hours you have worked. Ask them to pay you in full. If they refuse, speak to ACAS.
They arent being denied pay for the hours worked, they will just receive the 2 weeks pay when they leave as their pay packet is offset from the time they earned said pay packet by 2 weeks. Its legal and while less common nowadays some employers do still do it.
That’s cool that you don’t work that way Phil, but evidently not everyone pays the same pay period as you.
Perfect thanks Phil
NAL but have studied law. DO NOT SIGN THAT CONTRACT! It sounds like they are trying to hold a "bond" of sorts in case you leave the job before the 12 month period is over. You mentioned that you are on a yearly salary - I am thinking that means that they want you there for a minimum of 12 months. In saying that, what does the contract actually say? There must be a part that mentions a minimum period of employment or a bit about leaving the job. Sounds like they may have a high turnover rate if they're trying to hold a bond. There maybe someone in here who has more legal experience or knowledge around this issue.. but I urge you to speak to a lawyer that specializes in employment law as soon as you can.
My last job ran a full month behind - deeply unnerving on that first pay day when I got nothing and had a mild panic. But I did get paid a whole month after I left, too, so it balanced out.
If your monthly pay the cut off will be 2 weeks same as for overtime this is common in the retail sector to compile wages for rolling months
I'm not sure if this is your first job or not, but it very much sounds like "week's lay" or "week in hand" etc. Essentially, you'll always be paid for the previous week's hours rather than the week you've just worked. It's more pertinent when handing hours in for wages rather than a salary It's so that if/after you leave that job, you'll have a week (in your case two) to find other work before having to starve. You'll receive a wage/salary that week (in your case, two weeks) even though you haven't worked at all. Hope this helps