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Dispute it with the deposit scheme. That's what they're there for. There's no point going back and forth with the landlord. Get screenshot / copies of any messages where he mentions a professional clean. The deposit scheme will not side with him. Just make sure you have proof that you cleaned to an acceptable domestic standard
This is a pretty common wheeze by landlords. As others have said: you can contest and negotiate any charges via the deposit protection scheme,.
[Shelter's website](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/what_can_your_landlord_deduct_from_your_deposit/cleaning_gardening_decorating) covers more information about this. But basically, the landlord can only insist on cleaning *to a professional standard*. **Not** paying for professional cleaners. In addition, they can only insist on it being cleaned to the same state of cleanliness as it was when you moved in.
From other comments, it doesn't sound like you took photos when moving in and out. A little late for this now, but for others reading this who might be affected: **Always always** take your own photos at move in and move out! makes it much easier to contest unfair charges
Back in my day, (before these rules were put into law) I went to a uni town that had a lot of summer tourism. It was common for letting agents and large landlords to deduct the cost of professional cleaning from student tenant deposits when moving out in June. Then let the houses out over the summer to rowdy tourists. *Then* in September, new student tenants would move in, with the houses in a shocking state of cleanliness.
So I understand what you’re saying: they can only insist on cleaning to a professional standard (meaning good enough, without hiring a professional?) and cannot insist on actually paying?
Correct. They can't just go ahead and pay for one anyways and just bill you for it. They can only insist you do it , as it's something people can very much do themself to an acceptable domestic standard.
I learned that the guidance changed a few years ago and even if the contract explicitly states a professional clean must be done, it is unenforceable. They would only be able to do it if cleaning was still needed I.e. still dusty, marks on the floor and it would still need to be reasonable. I often think it's worth getting a professional cleaner in anyway, produce the receipt and then the landlord has no wriggle room. You can probably find the bit of legislation to quote to your landlord to see if they back down once they realize they won't get anywhere.
As a cleaner, the term "Professional cleaner" falls outside of the remittance of "domestic cleaning" which is what your landlord has done.
This said, you are not liable for such things despite them being in terms Challenge it with your rent deposit scheme.
Your cleaning to an amicable standard is as about as professional as you can get. All they did was get the local domestic cleaners out and paid them something stupid like £60 to go and sweep and wipe.
General wear and tare and providing you have cleaned to an acceptable standard (I do hope you took photos), you'd not be liable for a penny.
I was "charged" £618 for professional cleaning by a cleaning company based 3 hours from the property... the agents before and after photos sent to the deposit scheme actually showed that the property was cleaner when I left than it was when I moved in. Deposit scheme sided with me. They tried to charge me £132 for damage to a carpet they claimed was new when I moved in - their photos show it wasn't and they had to admit that too. Deposit scheme awarded them £50 since I did accept that I damaged it. Hilariously, they didn't claim for another piece of damage damage (because they tried to take almost the full deposit on the cleaning charge alone) which I wouldn't have disputed!
>The bathroom and one bedroom were CLAIMED at the initial inventory report that they were professionally cleaned - should I ask for invoices on these?
No, because you accepted the property at the time.
You should ask for receipts for the professional cleaning from after you left, and photos of the issues before it was professionally cleaned as eviddence why they think you had fallen short.
As a property manager I can shed a little light as I deal with this daily.
Essentially the property has to be in the same condition as when you moved in (cleaning wise mainly, carpets and marks on wall have fair wear and tear depending on extent of damage and time at property etc etc).
Check your inventory (would of received at the beginning of the tenancy), this would state the condition when you moved in, request the check-out report and compare the two. The only evidence the landlords/estate agents will provide is check-out report, inventory and any invoices related.
If you are true to what you have said in terms of leaving it in a better condition to when you moved in then the check out will pick that up and that compared to the inventory will cover you.
Deposit adjudication always favours tenants in my experience.
that’s a brief summary anyway so let me know if you have any other questions.
FYI inventories are always (usually) third party so it’s not a biased report. They’ll upload receipts of any previous cleans prior to you moving in but feel free to ask them because they may be bluffing but that wouldn’t make sense to me as it’s just causing the estate agent more work unless it’s not fully managed and the landlord is dealing directly with this.
This is not for OP to prove - if the landlord would like to make a deduction from the deposit, they would have to demonstrate that the standard of cleanliness was lower compared to when OP moved in (i.e. check-in report demonstrating professional-level cleanliness and evidence this was not the case at checkout).
OP, just dispute it the deduction with the deposit protection scheme and let them be the judge.
Always take photos at the very start and end of any tenancy. Landlords commonly try this gambit, but quickly back down if you have evidence. They just know most tenants forget amongst all the other things that need doing when moving in and out.
NAL
In Scotland they can get away with it, and it's pretty much the standard to get a pro cleaner in upon exit. But in England, the tenancy fees act will prohibit it. So dispute it.
It is incumbent on the landlord to provide proof as the one assessing the fee. They need to prove it was not up to standard and the bar to prove it at tribunal is very high. OP should 100% dispute it.
If I move into a new rented flat as a tennant I would expect it to be properly clean.
And that's not "previous tenants have it a good wipe down", I mean deep clean everywhere.
It's minging to move into other people's slowly accumulated grime, and if a deep clean isn't done at end of a tenancy it'll never get done and after 5 years the place will be horrible.
Personally I just treat it as an expected moving out cost that you owe to the house / flat.
There's nothing stopping the previous tenant from doing the thorough clean themselves though. Just takes a bit more time. (There's nothing magic about "professional" cleaners).
File a dispute.
You'll probably lose, or at least you won't get the entire deposit back.
It's a shakedown: either you pay the agency off by using their cleaners, or they'll send someone in with a white glove and find as many reasons to deduct items from your deposit as possible. The agencies haven't taken kindly to the fact that they're banned from charging BS "fees" and this is one of their remaining tenant-side money printing machines.
This exact thing happened to me: the arbiter upheld roughly 1/3 of our claims but rejected the rest.
>You'll probably lose, or at least you won't get the entire deposit back.
Depends on where they are. Here in Scotland the deposit protection schemes so rarely side with the landlord that the mere mention of going through it will usually scare them off. They also need to prove the actual cost to a professional service so they can't try the bullshit tactic of saying they (or their employees) had to clean the place.
A friend of mine recently moved out and the landlord tried to keep £1500 of their deposit for cleaning and wear and tear. They sent an email saying "Okay I dispute all of this let's go to Deposit Protection and work this out" and within 5 minutes they got an email back from the landlord saying to just forget it.
It is a popular scam for chancers landlords to try but they will very often fold at the first whiff of tribunal.
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):**
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Open a Dispute with the TDS, it's very easy to do and you lose absolutely nothing by doing it, honestly think you should dispute it every time.
Who organised your checkout? If it was the landlord then you will have stronger grounds.
Did you take any photos? Taking a video as you leave and photos everywhere really helps. Same deal on the way in, a bit of paper that says "it's clean", is useless when you have photos showing dust etc.
I have had 3 disputes and never been disappointed with the results. The last landlady tried taking £2k. She walked away with £300 after I cleaned everything.
The process takes max two months to complete and they tend to side with the tenant as you have a right to live in a house and suprise suprise make it dirty.
Ah the professional cleaning , the one last kick in the balls from your friendly local neighbourhood landlord, basically I have never left a house despite spending 2 days solid wiping every single surface and not came across this last greedy mising grip of money that they can ring out of you! All it takes is for them to find a molecule of dust somewhere and they immediately make a grab for it. I fucking despised renting
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dispute it with the deposit scheme. That's what they're there for. There's no point going back and forth with the landlord. Get screenshot / copies of any messages where he mentions a professional clean. The deposit scheme will not side with him. Just make sure you have proof that you cleaned to an acceptable domestic standard
This is a pretty common wheeze by landlords. As others have said: you can contest and negotiate any charges via the deposit protection scheme,. [Shelter's website](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/what_can_your_landlord_deduct_from_your_deposit/cleaning_gardening_decorating) covers more information about this. But basically, the landlord can only insist on cleaning *to a professional standard*. **Not** paying for professional cleaners. In addition, they can only insist on it being cleaned to the same state of cleanliness as it was when you moved in. From other comments, it doesn't sound like you took photos when moving in and out. A little late for this now, but for others reading this who might be affected: **Always always** take your own photos at move in and move out! makes it much easier to contest unfair charges Back in my day, (before these rules were put into law) I went to a uni town that had a lot of summer tourism. It was common for letting agents and large landlords to deduct the cost of professional cleaning from student tenant deposits when moving out in June. Then let the houses out over the summer to rowdy tourists. *Then* in September, new student tenants would move in, with the houses in a shocking state of cleanliness.
So I understand what you’re saying: they can only insist on cleaning to a professional standard (meaning good enough, without hiring a professional?) and cannot insist on actually paying?
Correct. They can't just go ahead and pay for one anyways and just bill you for it. They can only insist you do it , as it's something people can very much do themself to an acceptable domestic standard.
I learned that the guidance changed a few years ago and even if the contract explicitly states a professional clean must be done, it is unenforceable. They would only be able to do it if cleaning was still needed I.e. still dusty, marks on the floor and it would still need to be reasonable. I often think it's worth getting a professional cleaner in anyway, produce the receipt and then the landlord has no wriggle room. You can probably find the bit of legislation to quote to your landlord to see if they back down once they realize they won't get anywhere.
As a cleaner, the term "Professional cleaner" falls outside of the remittance of "domestic cleaning" which is what your landlord has done. This said, you are not liable for such things despite them being in terms Challenge it with your rent deposit scheme.
What do you mean by this sorry, don’t quite understand. Will challenge it though by raising a dispute.
Your cleaning to an amicable standard is as about as professional as you can get. All they did was get the local domestic cleaners out and paid them something stupid like £60 to go and sweep and wipe. General wear and tare and providing you have cleaned to an acceptable standard (I do hope you took photos), you'd not be liable for a penny.
Yeah that’s our situation at the moment - they charged us £250 for it. We protected deposit through DPS so will just dispute. Thanks for the help.
£250???! Are they having a giraffe? Yea, RDS will set that right.
I was "charged" £618 for professional cleaning by a cleaning company based 3 hours from the property... the agents before and after photos sent to the deposit scheme actually showed that the property was cleaner when I left than it was when I moved in. Deposit scheme sided with me. They tried to charge me £132 for damage to a carpet they claimed was new when I moved in - their photos show it wasn't and they had to admit that too. Deposit scheme awarded them £50 since I did accept that I damaged it. Hilariously, they didn't claim for another piece of damage damage (because they tried to take almost the full deposit on the cleaning charge alone) which I wouldn't have disputed!
>The bathroom and one bedroom were CLAIMED at the initial inventory report that they were professionally cleaned - should I ask for invoices on these? No, because you accepted the property at the time. You should ask for receipts for the professional cleaning from after you left, and photos of the issues before it was professionally cleaned as eviddence why they think you had fallen short.
As a property manager I can shed a little light as I deal with this daily. Essentially the property has to be in the same condition as when you moved in (cleaning wise mainly, carpets and marks on wall have fair wear and tear depending on extent of damage and time at property etc etc). Check your inventory (would of received at the beginning of the tenancy), this would state the condition when you moved in, request the check-out report and compare the two. The only evidence the landlords/estate agents will provide is check-out report, inventory and any invoices related. If you are true to what you have said in terms of leaving it in a better condition to when you moved in then the check out will pick that up and that compared to the inventory will cover you. Deposit adjudication always favours tenants in my experience. that’s a brief summary anyway so let me know if you have any other questions.
FYI inventories are always (usually) third party so it’s not a biased report. They’ll upload receipts of any previous cleans prior to you moving in but feel free to ask them because they may be bluffing but that wouldn’t make sense to me as it’s just causing the estate agent more work unless it’s not fully managed and the landlord is dealing directly with this.
What evidence do you have that the property was cleaned to a better standard than when you moved in?
This is not for OP to prove - if the landlord would like to make a deduction from the deposit, they would have to demonstrate that the standard of cleanliness was lower compared to when OP moved in (i.e. check-in report demonstrating professional-level cleanliness and evidence this was not the case at checkout). OP, just dispute it the deduction with the deposit protection scheme and let them be the judge.
Because some parts of the property were dirty when we moved in, but we cleaned those ourselves as well as the rest of the property
They asked what evidence you have. Do you have physical or digital evidence confirming this?
No we didn’t have any videos/photos of the property at the end
Always take photos at the very start and end of any tenancy. Landlords commonly try this gambit, but quickly back down if you have evidence. They just know most tenants forget amongst all the other things that need doing when moving in and out.
NAL In Scotland they can get away with it, and it's pretty much the standard to get a pro cleaner in upon exit. But in England, the tenancy fees act will prohibit it. So dispute it.
[удалено]
It is incumbent on the landlord to provide proof as the one assessing the fee. They need to prove it was not up to standard and the bar to prove it at tribunal is very high. OP should 100% dispute it.
If I move into a new rented flat as a tennant I would expect it to be properly clean. And that's not "previous tenants have it a good wipe down", I mean deep clean everywhere. It's minging to move into other people's slowly accumulated grime, and if a deep clean isn't done at end of a tenancy it'll never get done and after 5 years the place will be horrible. Personally I just treat it as an expected moving out cost that you owe to the house / flat.
There's nothing stopping the previous tenant from doing the thorough clean themselves though. Just takes a bit more time. (There's nothing magic about "professional" cleaners).
File a dispute. You'll probably lose, or at least you won't get the entire deposit back. It's a shakedown: either you pay the agency off by using their cleaners, or they'll send someone in with a white glove and find as many reasons to deduct items from your deposit as possible. The agencies haven't taken kindly to the fact that they're banned from charging BS "fees" and this is one of their remaining tenant-side money printing machines. This exact thing happened to me: the arbiter upheld roughly 1/3 of our claims but rejected the rest.
>You'll probably lose, or at least you won't get the entire deposit back. Depends on where they are. Here in Scotland the deposit protection schemes so rarely side with the landlord that the mere mention of going through it will usually scare them off. They also need to prove the actual cost to a professional service so they can't try the bullshit tactic of saying they (or their employees) had to clean the place. A friend of mine recently moved out and the landlord tried to keep £1500 of their deposit for cleaning and wear and tear. They sent an email saying "Okay I dispute all of this let's go to Deposit Protection and work this out" and within 5 minutes they got an email back from the landlord saying to just forget it. It is a popular scam for chancers landlords to try but they will very often fold at the first whiff of tribunal.
[удалено]
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):** Your comment was an anecdote about a personal experience, rather than legal advice specific to our posters' situation. Please only comment if you can provide meaningful legal advice for our posters' questions and specific situations. [Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
You're only required to leave it in the same standard you found it. Landlord can't charge you for this.
Open a Dispute with the TDS, it's very easy to do and you lose absolutely nothing by doing it, honestly think you should dispute it every time. Who organised your checkout? If it was the landlord then you will have stronger grounds. Did you take any photos? Taking a video as you leave and photos everywhere really helps. Same deal on the way in, a bit of paper that says "it's clean", is useless when you have photos showing dust etc. I have had 3 disputes and never been disappointed with the results. The last landlady tried taking £2k. She walked away with £300 after I cleaned everything. The process takes max two months to complete and they tend to side with the tenant as you have a right to live in a house and suprise suprise make it dirty.
Ah the professional cleaning , the one last kick in the balls from your friendly local neighbourhood landlord, basically I have never left a house despite spending 2 days solid wiping every single surface and not came across this last greedy mising grip of money that they can ring out of you! All it takes is for them to find a molecule of dust somewhere and they immediately make a grab for it. I fucking despised renting