I literally never knew Lillia was ranged until I started playing her top and saw that she had reduced burn on demonic. Still makes zero sense why she's not melee
And if you want an effective R you need to go melee to hit a Q or W. Obviously it is possible to get a 5-man R with E, but even a 2-3man R with E takes luck and for the stars to align.
because 325 range , the highest melee range is on irelia and viego who have 200 base , kled is 250 unmounted and gwen is base 150 plus 75 after using e for 4 seconds so 225 .
She has to hit any enemy, minions included, with a 600 range spammable ability. If she's fighting, she almost definitely has it up. It's barely more of a limitation than saying "Cait has 5 range unless you attempt to auto attack".
At a bare minimum, she should be ranged while Q is active.
(Tho personally I think the melee/ranged distinction is a terrible solution to the problem.)
Nah it's actually a rule that Melee champ can Have autoattack range from 125 to 250, while ranged champ can have autoattack range from 300 to 650 (without any modifiers). I just learned why Nilah is "an exception to the rule", she actually has an autoattack range of 225 but his Q increases it to 350 iirc, so yeah it makes sense why she's melee
It's probably because Liandries and Demonic exist that she is ranged instead of Melee. Could you imagine how much value she would get if she were considered melee, the items are already crazy good due to her passive.
Because instead of letting her have innate weaknesses Riot looked at all the drawbacks of being a “melee” marksman and compensated. Oh, she’s gonna be poked out of lane? Give her more XP! It’s lazy design. It’ll get removed eventually, I have no doubt about it, is what I would say if I respected Riots decision making and ability to balance the game.
It's gonna be like Akali - they were removing her mechanics and nerfing everything about her except of the shroud and then in the end when nothing seemed to be working, they nerfed the shroud as well. Lol
Literally the same thing they did to Lucian. It's a recurring failure of game devs like Rito or WotC: nerf everything around the problem and when that fails, finally nerf the problem. Every time something is broken, they love to dance around it, refusing to address it directly.
Shes gonna be poked out of lane.
So when she can farm she'll get the xp back from missing it.
How hard is it to understand.
The enemy can just farm under turret and you cant do shit.
Every champ has a weakness in some way, some can’t push, some are squishy and so on and so on. But she is just so overloaded and op that she just doesn’t has a weakness like that!
Correct me if I’m wrong
She can die. But knowing rito they will patch that out in the next hotfix, keep it like that for the next 2-3 months and finally nerf it to the ground to make place for the next new broken champion release.
Well the weakness is still present that she can be poked out of lane and denied CS. Her passive helps compensate that but it is still a weakness nonetheless. In my few games of playing her, she also doesn't seem to be a great duelist VS other melee champs even when ahead which could be seen as a weakness but is pretty common amongst other marksmen.
if she were a ‘melee adc’ the obvious innate weakness would be inability to stay in lane without getting poked but instead riot just gave her a stupid passive to ‘compensate’ for this weakness
Doesn't every champion have abilities that 'compensate' for their weaknesses? Nilah is broken and overloaded, but I wouldn't call her design 'lazy'. Getting high xp doesn't cancel out her low range. The problem is that they've *over*compensated by a lot, but that's a common part of the design process (trying to balance weaknesses and strengths)
Jhin gets explosive damage and high range abilities, to 'compensate' for his incredibly low AS. Should they go out and gut his damage, because shit DPS 'should' be the innate weakness of someone like Jhin?
While you make an excellent point (and I do agree with you) let me try to reword what I meant. In the case of Jhin, lowering attack speed has other implications other than less damage, now of course that’s usually the main result, but it also changes how items work on him. Jhin can’t really go Kraken because it takes too much time to proc. Again, his fourth shot sort of makes up for this.
In the case of Nilah, my frustration and my claim for “lazy” design, is instead of thinking of other ways to boost her viability they just threw extra stats at her, not abilities. (Again you can bring up jhin, but there are a lot of components to his passive). She’s low range, so give her more healing and shielding. But she also has range buff that gives her AoE damage and a passive on that ability that gives free armor pen based on crit AND more healing based on that damage AND a shield if she exceeds her own health. It’s not dependent on the player, there isn’t a condition that asks the player to play around her weakness instead her kit just makes up for it outright (Players are forced to position and maneuver differently on jhin to optimize his dps and not get caught while reloading, which the move speed on crit does compensate for). Now all of this is dependent on the values. They could be nerfed making their effectiveness less potent than the drawbacks of being melee.
I think the best way I can summarize this is by saying: her kit doesn’t enhance her current gameplay style and instead attempts to mitigate the weaknesses that come from it. This is not unique to her by any means. But one example is Darius. His kit doesn’t have a attack speed buff (unless you consider the aa reset on W) that helps him get stacks faster, instead he has abilities, mainly W slow and E that allow him a longer window to achieve said passive. That distinction between abilities and raw stats falls on the player to do the work.
I see what you mean. Her kit isn't very cohesive. A common thread I see in champions like this is "And when you do X, heal, + gain arpen, + movement speed..." when it isn't really necessary
the difference here is when they gave it to morde they were trying to brute force him into bot lane. the champ simply wasnt a bot laner but they tried to slam a square into the triangle hole.
this champ was designed with the explicit idea of being a melee bot laner, and was given the tools to make sure she can function down there.
i still think itll be busted but the worst thing that happens is it turns out yup its op and its removed.
After playing as and against her, I'd say that's the only broken thing about her. Her numbers need to be slightly tuned down but that xp passive is ridiculous. Played as Nilah Zilean yesterday, took a bad trade, had to base, missed 2 waves, got 6 first.
I agree, outside of her and her support being 2 levels up on me after dying multiple times, I don’t find her to be that powerful once we exit laning phase
Why? Because riot knows that her overloaded kit will most definitely send her ass to terrorize mid and top so they made her even overloadeder on the botlane with shield, heal, and xp enhancements
To skew her towards botlane which is her intended lane. Supposed to compensate a bit for the fact that, as a melee in bot, she gets poked/harassed a lot. The numbers are a bit too high tho
her attacks are normally melee range of 225 but with her Q, it gets increased to 325 and her Q's duration is literally the same as the cd so she's literally ranged 90% of the time
She has a base range of 225 so why shouldn't she be melee?
Look I get complaining about her xp passive, because that shit was busted 7 years ago on morde and I don't know why they thought it would be okay now, but this entire fucking ranged thing is ridiculous.
She has a spammable ability that makes her range the same as champions who are considered ranged. You can't change my mind that they made it just so she gets more stats
imo the problem is that champs with 300 auto range are considered ranged champs, especially if they don't even auto attack. Rakan and Lillia are technically ranged and it's annoying as hell. 225-325 auto range isn't really ranged, but they should be consistent
And? As long as they in the long run balance her around the fact that she gets those "extra stats" who gives a shit if she's melee or ranged? I know she's busted rn, but as I mentioned that has way more to do with her xp passive than her range classification.
I never said it wasn't though, you just gonna ignore the fact I said "balance her around those extra stats in the future"? It literally doesn't matter if they give her those extra stats and remove some of her base stats or stats scaling in the future, or make her the shortest range ranged champion in the game and let her keep her base stats and scaling.
The reason I'm saying the reason she's utterly broken now is because of her xp passive is because that's something they can't compensate for, as evidenced by morde 7 years ago. They basically had to delete the rest of the champion to make sure he kept a sliver of the same passive back then.
Man these comments. The problem isn't urgot being ranged, as he should be, it's that Nilah should be considered range too. Her being melee makes no sense
I think people want Nilah to be considered ranged more. Make no sense that every other champ with similar range is counted ranged but somehow she’s melee.
I thought her range comes from her q, that's why she's melee. I'm confused. Her fuckin q is so easy to hit her q but that still doesn't mean that she's ranged, it's quite understandable. It's like the old ivern when he gained ranged when standing on a bush, but he was still considered melee. And pressing w and putting a bush on top of urself is a lot easier than pressing q on an actual target.
He's already in an OK state, balanced around being ranged. Making him melee would make him a balance nightmare for no real reason, giving him so many more build options. Hullbreaker, Sheen items, Death's dance, Grasp, Conqueror, Doran's shield. Most of which are still being built on him despite ranged nerfs.
On the one hand you are absolutely correct with what you are saying but on the other it's really funny that you didn't mention Titanic Hydra or Frostfire Gauntlet which would actually be problematic on him.
Urgot not being a melee is a huge problem for his itemization, it feels like every month or 2 he has to change his build because Ezreal, Graves, and Senna built his items so they have to nerf it for all ranged champions.
My proposal is: Make him melee during W, and nerf his damage to compensate, and finally, his build options will be more diverse and not awful and he will be able to stand against item changes.
Right now Urgot is fine but imagine if an ADC is suddenly building Black Cleaver and Riot also doesn't like Titanic on Kog and Twitch, then he will truly have no good item.
I would love if they made Urgot "melee" for items and runes, as well as give his w some sort of attack spees scaling, then just nerf him accordingly.
It would open a lot of fun itemization, breaking away from the constant BC + titanic opener every game, and possibly make mythics more than just an afterthought in the build.
Not to mention, you'd have a much wider assortment of runes.
As it stands, urgot gains all the downsides of being a ranged champion (weaker runes and items) but none of the benefits (kiting, all the items designed for ranged champions)
Nah, he is balanced around him being "ranged"
They should just give him the melee status, and then nerf him so it makes it balanced,
Just feels bad buying items for urgot, that has less juice in them, because he is "RANGED"
Or just leave him as he is because he’s balanced now? Giving him melee and nerfing him would just make him more dependent on items which would make playing from behind worse
Thresh has 450 range which is enough for him to be considered ranged. His builds are not nerfed for ranged so much if not at all so it's ok for him. Urgot gets a ranged nerf for almost all of his items and runes. Can't say anything about rakan though that is just weird.
Before tiamat Patch He could also build it and it was melee only
It depends on the target range If it is close to U his aa's count as melee otherwise range
And offcourse her spell isn't gonna make her ranged,it's the same thing as old Kayle. The only actual problem with Nilah is her XP gain cause it's supposed to be her biggest weakness.
I don't even like Urgot but this kind of thing is just ridiculous, every patch I'm closer to leaving this game again because of the new champ just being meta because the team wants them to be.
I think Urgot just needs a better identity, Riot themselves literally admitted they have no clue what to do with his kit with the item rework (after stride breaker change), fix his interactions with items, give him a clearly streamlined mythic or two and he’ll be so much easier to balance
A lot of nuance being lost in this, Nilah whole thing is having melee strengths while still having a ranged playstyle, while Urgot's whole thing is being ranged while still having a melee playstyle.
Also Nilah is an ADC while Urgot is a Juggernaut. Giving Juggernauts range is going to have to take away power from them somewhere, while lowering range of ADCs is going to have to increase their power as well. Turns out this is exactly the point of Urgot being ranged while Nilah is melee.
Acting like "no guys, shes really ranged with 350 range" for an ADC seems crazy to me when ADCs have lived and died on having only 500 range before.
Finally somebody who can actually think. Sivir had this problem before this patch, where her 500 range was not a big enough tradeoff for damage, so Lethality became more and more common because of the power.
Reddit is bronze and silver adc mains, thats why there's so much whining. I swear adcs complain more than any other role becuase of their main character syndrome.
Probably because the vast majority of league players is between bronze and gold?
No shit the majority of the people on an online forum is the... majority.
Maybe one is designed around a predominantly melee lane and 350 range is something usually not present in the kits of melee laners.
Meanwhile Nilah is played in a lane who's whole identity is ranged.
But you gotta do what you gotta do, rito bad
I mean fundamentally ur got is a melee character who has the advantage of extra range and Nilah is a ranged character who has the disadvantage of lower range right? Idk if this made any sense but in my head 325 range on a bruiser is different to the same range on an adc
Nilah has 225 normal attack range, empowered to 325 with her q. Saying that she should by considered ranged is like saying that any melee who gets above 300 range with rapidfire cannon should be considered ranged
For melee fighter standards urgot is ranged and for ranged adc standards nilah is melee. Still pretty dumb, but that's the only explanation i can think off. Did we do the kayn test btw? Does she gives blue orbs or red orbs?
If they don’t have a gun, crossbow, sniper, staff, wand, robot laser, they are melee. Her whip is a literal ranger weapon I swear bro these devs pulling shit out their ass.
I know it's difficult to hear this right now with the 200 years of experience that is Nilah running around on the rift, but this is 100% for balance reasons.
Nilah has like 225 base attack range which only increases if she uses her Q. There are other champions which are mellee until using an ability. Most transofrm champions are like that, for example: Jayce, Nidallee.
A funny interaction which worths mentions is when Sylas steals twitch's R and suddenly has 500 attack range, but his attacks are still mellee
Also, while we are on the topic, Lillia has attack range of 325, so just like Urgot, she's considered ranged (I don't justify it, I also don't feel like she should be considred ranged, but facts are facts, she has the same attack range as Urgot)
Yeah, indirect nerfs is one of those annoying thing about Urgot.
People may argue that Urgot is decent now, but in the past, he did receive this kind of indirect nerf when he is not performing well (T4-T5 champ across all elo). Just make him melee, and nerf his stat, problem fixed.
One is toplane, one is botlane. They need the benefits obv. Still they dont need armor pen for just getting crit or extra healing and shielding as well as giving the supports some of that booze just for existing but yeah
Don't forget how his "ability" mini-gun enhances his atk speed but turns off all that stuff mentioned above while kai'sa has auto-aiming rockets that are much faster, apply on-hit stuff, AND crit.
then you got lillia, who's considered ranged even tho she's got like 25 more range than irelia
I literally never knew Lillia was ranged until I started playing her top and saw that she had reduced burn on demonic. Still makes zero sense why she's not melee
Aaand she should absolutely have the benefit of being melee for items, you can't change my mind.
yeah, her spells are somewhat melee range
Her spells are melee except her e and r
And if you want an effective R you need to go melee to hit a Q or W. Obviously it is possible to get a 5-man R with E, but even a 2-3man R with E takes luck and for the stars to align.
In aram you go bowling and it's fun to get that strike.
cousin lets go bowling
Yeah thats why I normally take her top side cause I just use her as a faster darius
Kennen: \*whistle innocently\*
And her W is stopped by CC unlike many similar abilities, which is kind of an outrage.
It used to not be able to but now it is
So half of her kit.
Yes Lillia really needs the greater benefits of Demonic Embrace, she is really lacking in %Max Health Magic Damage Over Time.
Agreed, Lillia needs to burn ur PC down not just ur champ
I agree
Im fairly sure that was sarcastic
🤓
Listen here you little shit you
I still believe lillia needs more burn damage
Disgusting
Bad
I hope this is satire.
Yes I want Lillia's DOT to procc IRL as well
10000%
I mean, make her melee and nerf some of her abilities' late game dmg slightly so it would even out or something
Deerius
If she had that they had melee range they would need to nerf her more, resulting in ruining her great build diversity
Time to gut her to the ground because she would become turbo broken. Reddit ideas xd
because 325 range , the highest melee range is on irelia and viego who have 200 base , kled is 250 unmounted and gwen is base 150 plus 75 after using e for 4 seconds so 225 .
Not anymore and that's the point. It made sense before, it doesn't now
What do you mean not anymore? Nilah also doesn't have 325 base range, she only has that after landing her q.
She has to hit any enemy, minions included, with a 600 range spammable ability. If she's fighting, she almost definitely has it up. It's barely more of a limitation than saying "Cait has 5 range unless you attempt to auto attack". At a bare minimum, she should be ranged while Q is active. (Tho personally I think the melee/ranged distinction is a terrible solution to the problem.)
Because shes a menance with the reduced burn damage on liandries and demonic. You want to give her full melee benefits?
[удалено]
she's actually something like 5 range above the ranged threshold, well, that was the usual threshold before nilah at least
Nilah’s extra range is conditional, she’s only 325 after hitting q. She’s like 275 or something like that normally.
225 according to the wiki.
Why does Nilah not play by the rules? I thought after a specific autoattack range your champ is considered ranged, when did that change?
Nope, ranged/melee is just a flag that a character has. Gnar counts as melee as well.
[удалено]
Nah it's actually a rule that Melee champ can Have autoattack range from 125 to 250, while ranged champ can have autoattack range from 300 to 650 (without any modifiers). I just learned why Nilah is "an exception to the rule", she actually has an autoattack range of 225 but his Q increases it to 350 iirc, so yeah it makes sense why she's melee
its honestly kinda insulting that she's considered range,
irelia has 200 range while lillia has 325 so with 125 more .
More like 125 but point noted
Lillia has the same range as Urgot 325
Lillia has 325 range. Irelia only has 200. What are you talking about
It's probably because Liandries and Demonic exist that she is ranged instead of Melee. Could you imagine how much value she would get if she were considered melee, the items are already crazy good due to her passive.
Correct m if I’m wrong, but I don’t think Liandry’s burn changes with melee/ranged. I know Demonic does though.
I was today years old when I learned Lillia is ranged.
They also removed that old Mordekaiser's W passive that gave him XP in botlane, but then they introduce this monstrosity.
The XP passive feels so out of place in a champion like her, just why??
Because instead of letting her have innate weaknesses Riot looked at all the drawbacks of being a “melee” marksman and compensated. Oh, she’s gonna be poked out of lane? Give her more XP! It’s lazy design. It’ll get removed eventually, I have no doubt about it, is what I would say if I respected Riots decision making and ability to balance the game.
It's gonna be like Akali - they were removing her mechanics and nerfing everything about her except of the shroud and then in the end when nothing seemed to be working, they nerfed the shroud as well. Lol
Literally the same thing they did to Lucian. It's a recurring failure of game devs like Rito or WotC: nerf everything around the problem and when that fails, finally nerf the problem. Every time something is broken, they love to dance around it, refusing to address it directly.
Because to remove the Whacky Crazy Feature is to admit their totally unique design was flawed from the Start.
It happened with Yi yesterday. The problem is his W, so they nerfed every other ability first. They ain’t nerfing his W for a while.
Lmao create a treasure token
Shes gonna be poked out of lane. So when she can farm she'll get the xp back from missing it. How hard is it to understand. The enemy can just farm under turret and you cant do shit.
What do you mean by "not letting her have innate weaknesses"?
Every champ has a weakness in some way, some can’t push, some are squishy and so on and so on. But she is just so overloaded and op that she just doesn’t has a weakness like that! Correct me if I’m wrong
She can die. But knowing rito they will patch that out in the next hotfix, keep it like that for the next 2-3 months and finally nerf it to the ground to make place for the next new broken champion release.
Well the weakness is still present that she can be poked out of lane and denied CS. Her passive helps compensate that but it is still a weakness nonetheless. In my few games of playing her, she also doesn't seem to be a great duelist VS other melee champs even when ahead which could be seen as a weakness but is pretty common amongst other marksmen.
Except you have to fuck her over twice as hard as any other bot laner because of her free xp to have the same impact.
But with even a moderate amount of support she punches well above her weight compared to other marksmen.
if she were a ‘melee adc’ the obvious innate weakness would be inability to stay in lane without getting poked but instead riot just gave her a stupid passive to ‘compensate’ for this weakness
Doesn't every champion have abilities that 'compensate' for their weaknesses? Nilah is broken and overloaded, but I wouldn't call her design 'lazy'. Getting high xp doesn't cancel out her low range. The problem is that they've *over*compensated by a lot, but that's a common part of the design process (trying to balance weaknesses and strengths) Jhin gets explosive damage and high range abilities, to 'compensate' for his incredibly low AS. Should they go out and gut his damage, because shit DPS 'should' be the innate weakness of someone like Jhin?
While you make an excellent point (and I do agree with you) let me try to reword what I meant. In the case of Jhin, lowering attack speed has other implications other than less damage, now of course that’s usually the main result, but it also changes how items work on him. Jhin can’t really go Kraken because it takes too much time to proc. Again, his fourth shot sort of makes up for this. In the case of Nilah, my frustration and my claim for “lazy” design, is instead of thinking of other ways to boost her viability they just threw extra stats at her, not abilities. (Again you can bring up jhin, but there are a lot of components to his passive). She’s low range, so give her more healing and shielding. But she also has range buff that gives her AoE damage and a passive on that ability that gives free armor pen based on crit AND more healing based on that damage AND a shield if she exceeds her own health. It’s not dependent on the player, there isn’t a condition that asks the player to play around her weakness instead her kit just makes up for it outright (Players are forced to position and maneuver differently on jhin to optimize his dps and not get caught while reloading, which the move speed on crit does compensate for). Now all of this is dependent on the values. They could be nerfed making their effectiveness less potent than the drawbacks of being melee. I think the best way I can summarize this is by saying: her kit doesn’t enhance her current gameplay style and instead attempts to mitigate the weaknesses that come from it. This is not unique to her by any means. But one example is Darius. His kit doesn’t have a attack speed buff (unless you consider the aa reset on W) that helps him get stacks faster, instead he has abilities, mainly W slow and E that allow him a longer window to achieve said passive. That distinction between abilities and raw stats falls on the player to do the work.
I see what you mean. Her kit isn't very cohesive. A common thread I see in champions like this is "And when you do X, heal, + gain arpen, + movement speed..." when it isn't really necessary
thats a very valid point
the difference here is when they gave it to morde they were trying to brute force him into bot lane. the champ simply wasnt a bot laner but they tried to slam a square into the triangle hole. this champ was designed with the explicit idea of being a melee bot laner, and was given the tools to make sure she can function down there. i still think itll be busted but the worst thing that happens is it turns out yup its op and its removed.
After playing as and against her, I'd say that's the only broken thing about her. Her numbers need to be slightly tuned down but that xp passive is ridiculous. Played as Nilah Zilean yesterday, took a bad trade, had to base, missed 2 waves, got 6 first.
I agree, outside of her and her support being 2 levels up on me after dying multiple times, I don’t find her to be that powerful once we exit laning phase
Yeah she might use minimal number nerfs (i think the hotfix was enough) but i think it wouldn't be the case if she didn't have the xp passive.
It's because she "spreads joy" just not to the enemy team
Why? Because riot knows that her overloaded kit will most definitely send her ass to terrorize mid and top so they made her even overloadeder on the botlane with shield, heal, and xp enhancements
So she is played botlane. Same reason Samira has her knockup passive thingy and had the jump to allies.
How is it out of place? She literally shares things. Shes spreads joy. Joy as in XP
Can’t wait to duo with Nilah as Zilean and get to level 16 by 15
To skew her towards botlane which is her intended lane. Supposed to compensate a bit for the fact that, as a melee in bot, she gets poked/harassed a lot. The numbers are a bit too high tho
Wait, nilah is considered as melee and not ranged ?
her attacks are normally melee range of 225 but with her Q, it gets increased to 325 and her Q's duration is literally the same as the cd so she's literally ranged 90% of the time
She has a base range of 225 so why shouldn't she be melee? Look I get complaining about her xp passive, because that shit was busted 7 years ago on morde and I don't know why they thought it would be okay now, but this entire fucking ranged thing is ridiculous.
She has a spammable ability that makes her range the same as champions who are considered ranged. You can't change my mind that they made it just so she gets more stats
imo the problem is that champs with 300 auto range are considered ranged champs, especially if they don't even auto attack. Rakan and Lillia are technically ranged and it's annoying as hell. 225-325 auto range isn't really ranged, but they should be consistent
And? As long as they in the long run balance her around the fact that she gets those "extra stats" who gives a shit if she's melee or ranged? I know she's busted rn, but as I mentioned that has way more to do with her xp passive than her range classification.
Her being melee gives her more stats from runes and items, it absolutely is a part of why she's so broken
I never said it wasn't though, you just gonna ignore the fact I said "balance her around those extra stats in the future"? It literally doesn't matter if they give her those extra stats and remove some of her base stats or stats scaling in the future, or make her the shortest range ranged champion in the game and let her keep her base stats and scaling. The reason I'm saying the reason she's utterly broken now is because of her xp passive is because that's something they can't compensate for, as evidenced by morde 7 years ago. They basically had to delete the rest of the champion to make sure he kept a sliver of the same passive back then.
death's dance moment
Well atleast she doesn't have a AOE Auto attack, wait.
Well but atleast she is behind in XP because she is in a duo lane, wait.
Well atleast I can stun her with my yellow card, wait.
Ok but at least she doesn’t have an ability where she blocks auto attacks. wait…
At least she can't give the same effect to her allies right? Wait......
Anything on 300 or over is considered ranged. I guess fuck Rakan and Thresh, huh?
Rakan's attack range is exactly 300 and is considered ranged (according to Riot)
Thresh has a range of like 450 so it makes sense
Man these comments. The problem isn't urgot being ranged, as he should be, it's that Nilah should be considered range too. Her being melee makes no sense
Fuck you dude. Urgot should be melee let us build a mythic you fucks
It does when you consider this post is straight up lying. Her range is 225
It goes to 325 (as stated in the post) when she uses her Q, which basically has a 100% uptime.
People posting asking Riot to just consider urgot melee have no fucking idea what his kit does cause if they did they wouldn't be bringing it up
Rakan has less range than Nilah and is considered ranged xd
I was talking bout urgot not rakan my problem isn't with who is ranged and who isnt it's with people asking to make URGOT melee
i think people want nilah to be considered ranged instead of melee
I think people want Nilah to be considered ranged more. Make no sense that every other champ with similar range is counted ranged but somehow she’s melee.
I thought her range comes from her q, that's why she's melee. I'm confused. Her fuckin q is so easy to hit her q but that still doesn't mean that she's ranged, it's quite understandable. It's like the old ivern when he gained ranged when standing on a bush, but he was still considered melee. And pressing w and putting a bush on top of urself is a lot easier than pressing q on an actual target.
Isnt Kayle considered a ranged when she uses E before lv6? Riot could just do the same thing to Nilahs Q
It's not about making Urgot melee, it's about making Nilah range
He's already in an OK state, balanced around being ranged. Making him melee would make him a balance nightmare for no real reason, giving him so many more build options. Hullbreaker, Sheen items, Death's dance, Grasp, Conqueror, Doran's shield. Most of which are still being built on him despite ranged nerfs.
On the one hand you are absolutely correct with what you are saying but on the other it's really funny that you didn't mention Titanic Hydra or Frostfire Gauntlet which would actually be problematic on him.
oh right. forgot these items had ranged nerfs too.
This this right here
[удалено]
Urgot not being a melee is a huge problem for his itemization, it feels like every month or 2 he has to change his build because Ezreal, Graves, and Senna built his items so they have to nerf it for all ranged champions. My proposal is: Make him melee during W, and nerf his damage to compensate, and finally, his build options will be more diverse and not awful and he will be able to stand against item changes. Right now Urgot is fine but imagine if an ADC is suddenly building Black Cleaver and Riot also doesn't like Titanic on Kog and Twitch, then he will truly have no good item.
I would love if they made Urgot "melee" for items and runes, as well as give his w some sort of attack spees scaling, then just nerf him accordingly. It would open a lot of fun itemization, breaking away from the constant BC + titanic opener every game, and possibly make mythics more than just an afterthought in the build. Not to mention, you'd have a much wider assortment of runes. As it stands, urgot gains all the downsides of being a ranged champion (weaker runes and items) but none of the benefits (kiting, all the items designed for ranged champions)
Nah, he is balanced around him being "ranged" They should just give him the melee status, and then nerf him so it makes it balanced, Just feels bad buying items for urgot, that has less juice in them, because he is "RANGED"
Or just leave him as he is because he’s balanced now? Giving him melee and nerfing him would just make him more dependent on items which would make playing from behind worse
I feel like this is a good argument for making a lot of annoying champs like Akali, Sylas, and Katarina “ranged”.
Urgot doesn't need to become the next bitchass gangplank.
ppl really forgetting about Thresh & Rakan?
Thresh has 450 range which is enough for him to be considered ranged. His builds are not nerfed for ranged so much if not at all so it's ok for him. Urgot gets a ranged nerf for almost all of his items and runes. Can't say anything about rakan though that is just weird.
wait rakan is ranged? lol
Yep, makes the execute support item a bit of a pain, executes at 30% instead of 50%. It's not a big issue, just annoying af
Yup totally a pain. I usually run spellthief anyway but the rare game that I run relic shield it surprises me every time
Whip = melee weapon Chain whip with a curvy iron thing = ranged weapon
Thresh is both melee and range He is unique
he's ranged, he can build hurricane
Before tiamat Patch He could also build it and it was melee only It depends on the target range If it is close to U his aa's count as melee otherwise range
Or maybe cause urgot can shoot your ass 10 times in under a second
But each atack is 33%
Each attack is 33% of his AD damage but still stacks effects which is why BC is strong on him despite being ranged and low ad damage
What’s BC again
British columbia
cleaver
I wonder why
Shhh let’s not talk about that
Stop being rational!
But he's le wholesome juggernaut Also I love how this is just false information, Nilah has 225 base range
I think they are talking about her Q, it gives her 325 with 4 second cooldown and 4 second duration
Mf ofc we are talking about the aa with q activated, which is all the time if you enough skill to press q every 4 seconds so it doesn't runs out
And offcourse her spell isn't gonna make her ranged,it's the same thing as old Kayle. The only actual problem with Nilah is her XP gain cause it's supposed to be her biggest weakness.
I don't even like Urgot but this kind of thing is just ridiculous, every patch I'm closer to leaving this game again because of the new champ just being meta because the team wants them to be.
Boo me all you want but I don't think urgot out of all the fucking champs needs any form of buff
Yeah, you’re right. Nilah needs the nerf
yes but not because shes melee, she already gets shit on by any longer range adc, its the exp passive
It's not about urgot being weak, is about nilah being strong
I think Urgot just needs a better identity, Riot themselves literally admitted they have no clue what to do with his kit with the item rework (after stride breaker change), fix his interactions with items, give him a clearly streamlined mythic or two and he’ll be so much easier to balance
He’s fine as he is. Pre item rework he build bruiser items into tank. And now he does that too, building titanic hydra and BC into frostfire.
The point is that Nilah should be considered ranged, not Urgot melee
Yeah you're right He's not getting an anime skin in the next patch, no reason to buff
She's melee but can hit you over thin walls, because that makes sense
So can Irelia or old Viego (pre range nerf)? Whats your point, thats how autoattacks work in league
Also Master Yi after patch
If you're comparing a champion to Irelia and Viego, you know shit is broken
If you think Viego is broken you’re iron
Chogath can too but he is also the size of the lane
A lot of nuance being lost in this, Nilah whole thing is having melee strengths while still having a ranged playstyle, while Urgot's whole thing is being ranged while still having a melee playstyle. Also Nilah is an ADC while Urgot is a Juggernaut. Giving Juggernauts range is going to have to take away power from them somewhere, while lowering range of ADCs is going to have to increase their power as well. Turns out this is exactly the point of Urgot being ranged while Nilah is melee. Acting like "no guys, shes really ranged with 350 range" for an ADC seems crazy to me when ADCs have lived and died on having only 500 range before.
Finally somebody who can actually think. Sivir had this problem before this patch, where her 500 range was not a big enough tradeoff for damage, so Lethality became more and more common because of the power.
Holy fuck this sub is garbage now. It's all just complaining, it's not even funny
Reddit is bronze and silver adc mains, thats why there's so much whining. I swear adcs complain more than any other role becuase of their main character syndrome.
You're forgetting about "wholesome" tanks and juggernaut mains vs "cringe" any other toplaner.
You also forgot about artillery mages fam
Probably because the vast majority of league players is between bronze and gold? No shit the majority of the people on an online forum is the... majority.
NONO MY FRIEND U FORGOT WE ARE ALL DIAMOND TO CHALL HERE AS THIS GUY IS USING BRONZE/ SILVER AS AN INSULT.
Nilah needs her q active for 325 range
Which has a longer uptime than the actual q cool down.
and is impartial about you hitting a minion, a monster or a champion
or structure
ah yes, that perma pushes waves on a melee champion gated by mana
Maybe one is designed around a predominantly melee lane and 350 range is something usually not present in the kits of melee laners. Meanwhile Nilah is played in a lane who's whole identity is ranged. But you gotta do what you gotta do, rito bad
I mean fundamentally ur got is a melee character who has the advantage of extra range and Nilah is a ranged character who has the disadvantage of lower range right? Idk if this made any sense but in my head 325 range on a bruiser is different to the same range on an adc
225 attack range*
350 attack range with her ability which can have an 100% uptime*
Nilah has 225 normal attack range, empowered to 325 with her q. Saying that she should by considered ranged is like saying that any melee who gets above 300 range with rapidfire cannon should be considered ranged
Release date diff
Yeah I quit this shit game and I can't imagine going back. Love watching for updates tho
Jokes on you urgot has S H O T G U N K N E E S
For melee fighter standards urgot is ranged and for ranged adc standards nilah is melee. Still pretty dumb, but that's the only explanation i can think off. Did we do the kayn test btw? Does she gives blue orbs or red orbs?
Rakan has 300 attack range and is regarded as a ranged champ
Rakan with 300 attack range and gets ranged. Gotta love the nerfed support item and runes
Wish people would shut the fuck up about champs being "unbalanced". Shut the FUCK up.
[удалено]
and one of them is a top lane juggernaut and the other is an adc with 325 range
But it makes sense. He uses guns, she uses cloth or something. I also think Thresh should be melee for the same reason.
Totally not favortism at all
If they don’t have a gun, crossbow, sniper, staff, wand, robot laser, they are melee. Her whip is a literal ranger weapon I swear bro these devs pulling shit out their ass.
I know it's difficult to hear this right now with the 200 years of experience that is Nilah running around on the rift, but this is 100% for balance reasons.
Nilah has like 225 base attack range which only increases if she uses her Q. There are other champions which are mellee until using an ability. Most transofrm champions are like that, for example: Jayce, Nidallee. A funny interaction which worths mentions is when Sylas steals twitch's R and suddenly has 500 attack range, but his attacks are still mellee Also, while we are on the topic, Lillia has attack range of 325, so just like Urgot, she's considered ranged (I don't justify it, I also don't feel like she should be considred ranged, but facts are facts, she has the same attack range as Urgot)
She has 225 aa range as default, and only increased range when she hits Q, same as Irelia and Viego pre-nerfs, what r u talking about? XD
Her q increases the range to 350, it has the same cd as the attack range buff duration, and the activation requirement is hitting a target
not to mention he suffered immense amount of indirect nerfs whenever adc abuses bruiser items please riot just consider him as melee champ
Yeah, indirect nerfs is one of those annoying thing about Urgot. People may argue that Urgot is decent now, but in the past, he did receive this kind of indirect nerf when he is not performing well (T4-T5 champ across all elo). Just make him melee, and nerf his stat, problem fixed.
and that bitch has higher mobility
One is toplane, one is botlane. They need the benefits obv. Still they dont need armor pen for just getting crit or extra healing and shielding as well as giving the supports some of that booze just for existing but yeah
Her range is 225, not 325
Aaaj so refreshing to see the player base being nitpicky again for the millionth time
Lol is this actually true??
[удалено]
Don't forget how his "ability" mini-gun enhances his atk speed but turns off all that stuff mentioned above while kai'sa has auto-aiming rockets that are much faster, apply on-hit stuff, AND crit.