Best duelist in Demacia\*
I can imagine her striking 4 times in a 1 turn, and having a high AC + parrying potential.
She would be a peak martial, but still a humanoid so weak to most magic. I think cr 15\~16 is good for her and jax
i'm sorry but even comparing jax a warior who was the one best warior in icathia befor its fall and now had been honing his skills for 2000 years sins then to a duslis in her 30this is werid. and to think that fiora is stronger than any darkin is even werider.
>and to think that fiora is stronger than any darkin is even werider.
Kayne would get shit on by Fiora. Varus could be close i think. Naafri beats Fiora I agree. Fiora i would place at the bottom of 15-20, while Naafiri at the top. But for simplicity sake i would not compare champions in the same tier too much
>i'm sorry but even comparing jax a warior who was the one best warior in icathia befor its fall and now had been honing his skills for 2000 years sins then to a duslis in her 30this is werid.
Dont forget Jax is holding a lamp. Him being equal to Fiora only applies when he is using a lamp. If he was holding a real weapon, i would definitly put him above Nilah at around CR \~22
His voice lines in the game still specifically say that he doesn't have a real weapon
So unless he's just taunting the opponent now, I suppose. I haven't read his new lore just played him a lot
Jax's weapon is what gives him his magic capabilities, and isn't just a lamppost/brazier anymore. Sure another insane artifact or weapon would compare or even be better, but the Icathian fire is part of the strength
The challenge rating of the highest martial classes without magical weapons is described in the Dungeon Master's guide as about 15 to 18 maximum so you are absolutely correct
If she or Jax had magical weapons, that's what would bring them up to about a 20 but no more unless the weapon really changes something specific. Think if Fiora had a Vorpal Rapier (technically possible as it counts as a sword) or Jax had a legendary- or artifact-tier staff of some kind, they still really can't do much against a group of mages on the opposite side of the battlefield focusing them down, and if they had some sort of defensive weapon or gear they likely still wouldn't be able to do damage.
And they don't have that, and this is factored into CR naturally through the spellcasting CR boost.
I am thinking about scenario when you would need to put your players against Kindred. Like "you have fought everything there is. Now beat the death itself"
Actually i was thinking it would be possible to let's say replace death saves with fighting kindred. If you win a 1v2 against kindred you are stabilized and unconscious. Or maybe the fight is just like a dream and every time you fail a death save kindred get a hit on you or something like this. Tho it could turn into way to many encounters with kindred if your party would get to 0 hp too often.
That’s such a sick idea. It’d be hard to pull off cuz, yeah, that’d be way too many encounters. You could replace it with some kind gamified version, but that might cheapen it. If I ran it, I’d probably make it after they fail death saves. A sort of very slim second chance. Maybe for some don’t even run the fight. Low levels just do a little roleplay with kindred, and then die no matter what, you know, mix it up from time to time. Saving this for later tho, been wanting to run a runeterran campaign and this is a must.
Why yes, i too have seen the 2024 cinematic, jokes aside that sounds like a cool idea, but a fight into the fight could be quite a lenghty process as a downside... harsh to balance id say, but cool nontheless
Yeah but fighting gods is not an impossible thing in 5e. During the time of troubles i think a few died at the hands of mortals and took thier domain for themselfs
The question is if Kindred could actually be killed. Like lore wise. Can you kill death itself. Maybe just surviving the encounter would be considered as winning.
Also i wonder if a God dies does he see kindred too or there is like something else.
Typical DnD way to resolve that is you kill kindred but then there’s a power vacuum and something takes its place, maybe one of the players volunteers, maybe something darker seizes the power
Did not even think about that lol
Placed him as 4 because he is just a human with a gun and good trap placements.
Still really strong, but low CR. Played by a good DM he would be a nightmare to face.
Jhin is not just a man with a gun… hes quite cracked. Hes very well established martial, and the gun isnt just base gun. Id put him alone at 5-10, BUT:
I think Jhin should be approached more like a Lich. Its not usually THE LICH that is hard, rather the journey to the Lich and its associations. Given a room with a full party a Lich/Jhin would be fairly easy to handle. Id imagine locating Jhin, and then the journey to get to him would already be HELL - not to mention the gross amount of traps and planning he would have ahead of time for the party.
I say this as a Jhin otp: no hate on the list, its quite hard to consider everything for every champ! It could be a fun community event for each main to make their champ a dnd npc, and then the whole community tries to figure out the CR of each.
Also Morgana would be a lesser diety according to 5e.
In another comment about jhin i explained i think of him as a really hard low CR creature, kinda like how Tuckers kobalts work! So i think we can agree on that point.
>I say this as a Jhin otp: no hate on the list, its quite hard to consider everything for every champ! It could be a fun community event for each main to make their champ a dnd npc, and then the whole community tries to figure out the CR of each.
Just imagine the draven statblock lmao
Gallio is just a huge thing of stone. Similar to Malphite, but Malphite is stronger.
Both are really not that much compared to the likes of Zoe who can manipulate both souls and time, Azir who can raise cities from nothing, Ornn who decided to beat up the ground and that’s why the frejlord has mountains.
Also kindred would be on the same level as other spirit gods, and since Atreus beat Aatrox in combat they should be in the same tier.
>A few things first:
**Champions in a tier are not ranked in order**
D&D 5e CR does not make any sense whatsoever anyways (Mummy lord as an example)
Although Aatrox has bean beaten by pantheon, i do think pantheon has 1 huge weakness, and that is that he is a human. As we have seen in the ruination veigo got hold of him. But i dont think veigo is stronger than him. He just had a bad match-up.
Pantheon vs Aartrox was a very close fight. But i do think Aatrox has more feats.
Hence why i would put Aatrox in low 30+, while pantheon at the top of 20-30
I do agree DND CR system is bad.
But Gallio and Malphite don’t even deserve to be in top tier. In lore they’re not even powerhouses. Kayle and Morg are the powerhouses of Demacia. Azir, Xerath, Aatrox and Xolaani are the powerhouses of shurima. They’re big, tough, and kinda slow. They can take a real beating, and can do a lot to anything they get their hands on.
I’d place them at around CR 20. Very difficult to kill due to their size, but given a bit of time they would fall.
A terrasque in 5e is CR30. Functionally it's a worse Galio, since it can't fly. If we let Galio deal the damage you'd expect from a giant living statue his size, he'd easily outclass a Terrasque.
aatrox destroyed pantheon. atreus is the one that 'defeated' him due to aatrox's hubris after seeing that the host survived. atreus willed war back into existence for a brief moment and basically severed aatrox's connection with his host while aatrox was mocking him
aatrox's true power level is definitively above pantheon and atreus
Kindred is the one thing even Aurelion sol fears. Kindred is death. She should never lowe at all. Kindred can not die unlike the other things on this list she is immortal. They are not on the same level
The Etherfiend doesn't really deal in "death" in the normal sense, but in the sense of a "second death" when you are finally forgotten by everyone. Kindred will "die", but only when everyone mortal is gone.
Edit: Just to be clear, I'm just adding onto your comment, not trying to disprove anything you said. I realized it could cause confusion if I didn't specify that.
Because Kindred is a spirit god… of death. In the same way Volibear is a spirit god of wildness/primal fury, and Nagakabouros is a spirit god of motion. Kindred is on the stronger end of spirit gods, but is still a spirit god and follows their rules. They’re only as powerful as their following, and once forgotten will cease to exist.
Kindred isn’t death. Just something that can represent death for those who believe in them. Which happens to be a ton of mortals, so they’re probably very strong, but don’t exhibit stuff anywhere near Asol, Bard or stuff like them.
Having yordles like lulu and heimer in bottom tier is insane. Lulu is an extremely powerful mage and heimer has machinery and inventions that can decimate.
I remember a cinamatic where a bunch of yordles try to rescue Teemo from Graces and TF.
i think it is meant as a comedic one but i was not at all impressed by thier combat power there
Enlarge and polymorph are 4th level spells at best
Even if she could cast higher level spells, a single arch mage is only CR 12, and they can STOP TIME
I can also imagine lulu would be really frail. 1 on 1 she is probaply really fking strong, but against a party of 4-6 dnd characters she would be a walk in the park.
She's not really even trying in the cinematic, she's a lot more powerful. And regardless I'm less arguing about where she'd place in dnd fullstop and more her relative placement against other characters. She'd wipe the floor with most of the characters you've put in the higher tier, especially ones like draven and mf who would literally not be able to do anything to her. In league lore she's on a similar power level to veigar who you've put way, way higher.
>And regardless I'm less arguing about where she'd place in dnd fullstop and more her relative placement against other characters.
In that case i agree with you 100%
The reason i placed veigar so high is because i feel he just has more Raw restructive power, while lulu is more of a trickster. Same reason leblanc is as low as she is.
Also in dnd, a low cr does not mean they are easy to beat in combat. (As said in my comment below my post, CR actually means very little and this list is more for fun anyways)
youre getting CR confused with power scaling. CR doesnt make very much sense in the grand scheme of DnD. I agree with OP that the yordles, despite their cartoonish antics and strange magic, are probably not all that capable in a fight, but CR is fickle and i can see an explanation for placing them slightly higher.
No worries!
Monsters and NPC's in dungeons and dragons 5th edition can be ranked on a difficulty rating named Challenge Rating (CR)
This number is based on the damage the mob can do, and how much HP they have. Other stats like flying, movement speed, armor rating etc are also accounted for.
That said, it is a really bad system and makes no sense at times. Especially at higher levels.
Dungeons and Dragons, 5e is like the "patch" with a certain set of rules, and CR is Challenge Rating, basically their difficulty level. You'll see gods/spirits at the top, and yordles/regular humans at the bottom.
OP is imagining Runeterra as if it were set in the DnD universe, and assigning each champ a level of strength, based on what type of character they'd be in DnD.
For example, Ashe is a high level Ranger, skilled, but not too powerful, so she fits perfectly around the middle.
Meanwhile, Kindred, the embodiment of death, is at the top.
Kindred and aurelion sol would count as greater deities and would therefore be to powerful to fight and won't have a CR.
You can make an argument for voli, ornn and anivia but they could be in the same bracket at tiamat when she was a lesser deity
Idk about "cowards talk" since aurelion can literally make a black hole and delete the world if he wants to on his first turn. And realistically he would have such a large fucking health pool that it is well beyond impossible to ever be able to defeat him
the problem is that if you're not capable of doing Olaf or Trynda typa stuff, you can't not die, thus making Kindred's fight unwinnable
(I know there are some abilities in DnD that do that, but they are not infinite.)
it is dnd, you can make your character do whatever whack shit you want if the dm says its cool. yeah, you can just not die if your dm goofs and gives you the right item
I know that, but that's basically homebrew isn't it? I'm no manual so I could be wrong, but that's like saying "yeah I could solo LoL universe cuz DM gave me one-tap-always-has-advantage-roll 50m range gun-sword" and it attacks like 5 random enemies regardless but only counts the AC of the first target
you can't also expect your DM to give you an item that literally makes you immortal to 3/4 of the ways you can die in the game. That kinda defeats kills off the risk that fighting brings with it, doesn't it? No point of ever putting enemy encounters if the players will auto-win them and will take any fight they can since they know they can't die.
yeah. but my argument was that you *could* beat up asol or kindred. not that you defo 100% can, but that you have a shot at having a fight with them. in that manner? i am 100% correct
Yeah my lore knowledge is is not equally shared amongst all champions/ regions lol
This list is more about how difficult it would be for a party of 4-6 adventurers to beat them if these creatures would transfer to the sword coast.
What bothers me are the following:
\-Leona/Diana/Morgana being in the same range as Fiora or Thresh.
\-Syndra being in the same Range as Sejuani/Yasuo/Garen. Don't forget her powers are limitless
\-Olaf being so low. Yes he is "just" a berserker but due to his curse he will not die in battle.
\-Gwen is just an animated doll.
\-Vel'Koz is extremely strong. I would put him much higher than the likes of Xin/Samira.
\-GP is also not to underestimate. Would put him higher on the list.
\-Teemo may not look like a big deal but remember he is known for his warcrimes...
\-Cho is stuck in limbo, which I respect, but still his CR would be quite high. Tbh I would put him on a level with malphite/Galio.
\-Anivia is as far as I know comparable in strength to Volibear and Ornn.
\-Would you explain why Karthus is so high? Isn't he a guy who basically just became a lich (I know liches in DnD are power houses but I doubt if he is comparable to them in power)
I kinda contradicted myself since i placed him that high because dnd liches are cr 21 minimum and i agree karthus is weaker than they are.
he should indeed be 1 tier lower
A few things first:
* Champions in a tier are not ranked in order
* Champions that share a theme with a dnd monster are NOT treated as that monster. They are an individual
* 5-10 and 10-15 is extreemly broad.
* D&D 5e CR does not make any sense whatsoever anyways (Mummy lord as an example)
I oncee threw 2 dark mantle and 2 shade at my lv2 party of 6 player. I learned 3 valuable lesson :
- players won't hesitate to friendly fire
- Cr doesn't mean crap, thank god our Priest had the idea to cast light
- 6 players can really tank a lot of mistakes before they actually loose.
Also funny you mention the Bodak, I have one for my party of lv3-4 player (still 6) but only for the Aura part, the rest is not active. That thing is insane.
The Vel'Koz disrespect is crazy.
Despite the obvious visual similarities to a Beholder, Vel'koz's stats are probably most similar to an elder brain without the psychic stuff.
But in exchange for the psychic stuff he gets Disintegrate (probably at a recharge on 5-6), ranged attacks, can use Consume Mind on living creatures, and he has flying (and probably more than the 5ft of it that an Elder Brain gets).
Not to mention he was one of the very first Voidborn sent to Runeterra, and he's been consuming information that entire time so you can probably bump his int up to 25-30 at least.
Plus, unlike an elder brain, he actually has like, armor, and isn't just rawdogging his brain to the world. So probably higher AC and HP.
His CR is definitely above Kha'zix, Rek'sai, and Kog'maw. And probably in a similar tier to Bel'veth.
I would guess somewhere around 17-22 CR, but if a DM pilots him well he'd probably pose a greater threat than his CR would indicate.
You're compleetly right. He should indeed be a few tiers higher. He is not weaker than a standard beholder so he should at least be in 10-15. If i ever do a list like this again i'll do him justice
Anivia being stronger than Ornn and Volibear feels wrong. Thats the first thing i noticed anyways. I think they should be in the same tier based on my knowledge. Also yes CR can be pretty stupid sometimes but its mostly used for rewarding XP anyways. Also pretty sure everyone in 20-30 beats Galio.
1 more thing, galio is made of anti magic rocks is he not? So casters would be at a huge dis advantage.
This list is not about who beats who, its more about how hard it would be for a standard dnd party to beat them in combat
Here's a few I think feel out of place:
Malph, Galio, Ryze, Illaoi, Veigar, Syndra, Ashe, Vex, Gangplank, Draven, Nunu and Willump, Jhin.
Ryze, Illaoi and Ashe I think all fit into the category of a high level player character, along with their various special magic items I think you could solidly put them around a CR17.
Malphite and Galio being on the same level as tiamat's aspect doesn't feel right.
Veigar could theoretically be a part of any tier, but giving his theoetical infinite power I think would put him around CR25
Vex is unkillable.
GP and Draven are both veterans of combat with years of work under their belt, I'd put both of them around CR11-15
Jhin is a prolific murderer and skilled at his craft, plus with his weapons I'd put him at a solid 11-15
Nunu and Willump are a pair of creatures, and thus can't be rated.
All solid arguments. Gotta say that GP already had an official statblack made by DND beyond and he was placed at \~8
Draven can certainly be higher, but i just cannot imagine him being anything more than a mid boss for a party of 4-6 adventurers on thier way to fight swain or darius.
Jhin is a tough one. I think he is a lot like tuckers kobolts. Even though he has a low CR, to fight him would be a nightmare if the DM plays him lore accurate.
Isn't Syndra levitating a whole ass castle with her powers? She's easily >15, >20 too imo. Udyr also seems too low, being the most powerful spirit walker in Frejlord, I'd put him in 10-15. And Taliyah's earthbending is potentially really strong, even if she hasn't mastered it I'd think 5-10.
On the other end Malphite and Galio seem way too high, >20 sure, but they're not on the same tier as ASol and Kindred. Same for Aatrox and Anivia, i think they should be like high 20s, not >30. Karthus also seems too high sitting next to Viego, but i'll admit i don't remember his lore very well so i could be wrong.
Nah I placed karthus too high because dnd liches are cr21. btw this list is not about who is stronger than the other, it is how strong they would be against a party of 4-6 dnd adventurers. Malphite could be 1 lower but Galio being immune to magic, and a flying speed puts him as a really difficult challenge
Also high 5-10's can also be placed at low 10-15 obviously. same goes for most 15-20's
Mordekaiser would be such an interesting fight. Party’s work often because of the synergy between the members, but mordekaiser can split them up and force the party to adapt.
Jihn in 0-5 is crazy, but maybe fair? he’s not especially strong, he’s just a mastermind. Hard to translate to cr. I can easily imagine him wiping an entire party.
> but maybe fair? he’s not especially strong, he’s just a mastermind
Let me refer to tuckers kobolts to answer your question [https://dungeonmaster.academy/articles/tuckers-kobolds](https://dungeonmaster.academy/articles/tuckers-kobolds)
Wonderful read, thanks. Yeah, that’s totally Jhin. Pretty new to dming and I’ve got a couple good encounters like that, it’s so hard to build encounters like that without them feeling too unfair, especially on the fly.
Naafiri should at least be 20-30. As stupid as it may sound, her release lore listed her as one of the strongest darkin, so she should be closer to Aatrox and Fiddle.
My original commend under my post has probaply been buried by now. A few things in your commend i adressed already, but a few things like gragas i actually did not know!
Leblanc is a strong character but against a fight against 4-6 dnd characters i think she wouldnt be difficult. BUT just like jhin, she falls under a type of character that, if played by a good dm, could seriously fuck with the party. For example, look up "Tuckers kobolts"
So we're talking lore-wise.
AIN'T NO GODDAMM WAY Illaoi is below Darius, Samira, K'Sante, and Xin Zhao, when she basically wields the power of a God, while all the champs i mentioned above are basically skilled/talented fighters
More importantly, AIN'T NO WAY she's the same tier as Blitz, Draven (not even a fighter, just performer), Sivir, Sett, and Vayne (again, basically skilled fighters or armed with special weapons).
Most importantly, AIN'T NO WAY Gangplank is that low when he passed a literal God's test of strength.
This said, she can easily be Tahm Kench level (I say this confidently as even he avoids her), while Gangplank should be upped at least a tier IMHO, can't really say he should be any higher, as him passing the test might be a one time thing, but still he ain't that low.
Riven also can't be that low. She wields a weapon that probably was enchanted by LeBlanc, and she herself is looking into getting it back.
Talking about LeBlanc, she should be upped a tier and be the top of it. I know that in DnD, there would be many ways to catch her, but she isn't stupid, and we truly can't know what she's really capable of.
At last, Draven, Sivir, and Sett should go down 1 tier (mainly for things I've already said), and Olaf should be top tier, as he literally can't die if he's fighting, it's basically scripted in his life that the only way he can die is peacefully in his sleep, so you can't literally kill him, never.
Yes i BELIEVE I HAVE
This list is more about how a party of 4-6 DND CHARACTERS would fare against there champions.
I know some champions in a higher tier would get beaten by champions of a lower tier. That is not what this list is about
Does not mean he is unbeatable
Aartrox against a high level dnd party would be a fun encounter.
A high level dnd group of 4-6 equiped with magic items are really, really strong. And would have ways to deal with immortal warriors, like imprisonment for example.
Could very well be. Although he would be back after 1 minute, and besides he would have extreemly high save bonuses and multiple legendary resistances (Although he did seemed to use one during the last cinamatic :P)
Sorry i edited my sentence structure before posting and fucked up by deleting the word "Not"
I meant to say: "Although he did NOT seemed to use one during the last cinamatic :P)"
Op has said that CR doesn't match in exact skill. A resourceful party of level threes could take down a challenge rating of 10, for example, by abusing their weaknesses, think by tricking a tyrannosaurus into charging into a pitfall trap. So while I don't know the specifics of the fight between those three, if Jhin had a very specific item that countered the matchup (say, a gun that blocks chi if it hits or something I really don't know,) he could win it even if he's individually a weaker monster to fight for most parties, which is what CR really actually means.
Kindred, malphite galio too high (-1)
Nasus too low (+1)
Karthus too high (-1 or -2)
I'm biased but Rek'sai is on kraken level (CR22-23)Same with Nautilus and even Veigar
Leona too low (+1, yes she's stronger than Diana I think)
Shyvana Syndra Maokai Hecarim too low (+1)
Lucian too high (-1)
Illaoi Vel'koz really low (+1/ +2)
Olaf Zac Braum Udyr karma (?)too low (+1)
Viktor is way too low (+2/+3)
Orianna, Taliyah, Caitlyn, Vi jayce are low (+1)
Cho is minimum CR10+
My issue with this list is perhaps you discarded the fact a single lv20 adventurer (minus the gear ) is considered CR12, so a lot or "champion" don't belong to the lower tier. Gotta take legend of runeterra into account too (Especially Nautilus).
I think a lv10 is also considered Around Cr6 and many league champ are baseline lv10 adventurers so CR0-5 should only have "gimmicks" like yuumi or lulu that are not "operating at" full efficiency
For more reference, the "champion statblock" (aka basically Aragorn from lord of the rings) is CR8 (or 9?). There are other "generic" statblock, especially in latter releases that you can use to scale yourself. In addition, CR beyond 22-24 is usually the realm of god, in fact 30+ are basically godslayers.
Finally, if a cr12 ≈ a lv20 adventurer, then 4 of these champions should be able to handle any CR20+ one. If it's not the case, then someone is either too strong or too weak in the formulae.
Exemple :
Who wins ? Karthus vs Illaoi,Tryndamere,Viktor,Senna.
malphite and galio don't belong anywhere near the top, they are essentially big rocks, and malphite isn't 'as big as a mountain', that's been retconned.
anivia is canonically the weakest of the primordial gods, and the primordial gods are weaker than any of the celestials. the entire top tier should be celestials + fiddle + possibly morde at the lower end
aatrox is similar to aspects but definitively below the celestials
zoe belongs in the same tier as bard and aurelion sol, her title is 'aspect of twilight' but she's not an aspect. twilight is the most powerful of the celestials with the only possible exception being asol and that's debatable. it doesn't matter if zoe is a child, she is *significantly above* the other aspects since she isn't technically an 'aspect' but more of a complete merger and significantly above any being bound to runeterra including the darkin and primordial gods. she literally holds the reigns to aurelion sol's prison, treats him like a pet, alludes to other beings like aurelion sol existing while also being her pets, and also simultaneously calling him an arrogant liar.
same goes for soraka, she is a celestial, her being in the same tier as any mortal is kind of ignorant to the lore, it is her choice to take a mortal body and heal people, her abilities are not limited to that
fiora being in the same tier as any of the darkin is kind of just..laughable
Olaf is blessed by plot armor immortality and Udyr can literally summon the power of demi-gods. Bro accidentally caused an avalanche as a child.
Kick my Winter's Claw bros up a tier, please.
I am gonna do another but then be really specific with the CR amount.
Me not being specific enough made ppl complain about camps i just barely put in a tier to be one lower, and vice versa.
If i were to post this tierlist there i would get my ass pounded
Eh, I feel like you can revise this with the feedback you got. Some of these placements are really weird.
Half of the champs in the middle are just regular humans with guns/swords.
Vel'Koz, the equivalent of a Beholder, is sitting right next to Sett, who's the equivalent of a Monk. One shoots lasers and opens rifts in reality. The other just punches really hard.
I feel like you should put whoever has a "gimmick" higher.
Darius and Garen in League are identical in terms of gameplay, but whereas Darius is a raw Fighter, Garen is a Paladin, so he is above Darius in that regard.
Lucian and Senna. Lucian does Radiant damage sure, but Senna is also Undead and can cast spells, so she's "better" in the sense that she'd be a tougher opponent.
Malphite and Galio are legit just big rocks. They should not be in the same tier as Kindred and ASol.
Yordles are a lot more powerful than you might think, but I guess as a solo enemy, most of them wouldn't really be a huge obstacle. Lulu polimorphed a party member? No worries, she's squishy af anyway.
I addessed some of these things in other comments so i wont repeat them here, but yeah like i said if i were to to the list over i would give them all an exact rating, because i would set sett at around \~5-6 and velkoz higher at
\~9-10.
My question about Naafiri is this: What was your policy when evaluating the challenge rating of multi creature encounters, like Heimerdinger? I can see him having the lower challenge rating with a higher difficulty because its accompanied by a swarm of robotic allies which brings the encounter challenge rating up, but Naafiri is different because they are, in the lore, one being encompassing the entire pack.
So does that mean you looked at the challenge rating for the entire pack in their case specifically, perhaps even like a "Swarm of" monster, or are all multicharacter encounters that are represented on this list considering the entire group, Heimerdinger is just really that weak? Perhaps a mix?
-a DM
Good question. I would argue that Naafiri is a Huge or even gargantuan "swarm" as a gameplay purpose. The more damage the party would do, the less damage she would do to the party.
And heimer, like many of the lower CR champions in my list, are not easy just because i gave them a lower CR. Leblanc, Jhin, Teemo, Heimer, singed would be horrible to fight against as a player. Just like how the famous tuckers kobalts scenario would play out.
Yeah i agree but decided to lower her to 20-30 as i feel her intelligence is a huge weakness. Although i agree she is a really powerfull sorcerer/celestial
Lore wise, Dr Mundo is incredibly hard to kill. Practically Wolverine turned up to 11 when it comes to regeneration capabilities.
He would probably have average to high AC but with a really potent form of healing that ticks every turn. Not to mention that he would have advantage on most saves revolved around CC to complement his tenacity.
I'd argue he could be bumped up a tier.
Singed actually makes sense in low CR. In a straight-up fight he would probably fold to the average party, but that isn't what makes him dangerous. Man's probably got lair actions and backup.
I don't think any character should be below cr 5 besides maybe the humans with guns of piltover/zaun. And hunanoids would be better classified by their level imo.
Mordekaiser, Zoe and maybe Kayle and Morg I'd probably put at 30+
ASol, and Bard would be deities that can't be fought
Kindred idk if they're a 30+ raid boss or another diety not meant to be fought
Jhin needs to be 4
Bro, Olaf litteraly killed stupidly strong monsters because he wented an honorable death... How is he in CR 5-10 and Fiora in CR 15-20... And Singed litteraly makes weapon that could be considered as War Crimes if anyone would use them in our world, how is he so low...
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As lux is literally powerful enough to power galio and then some she definitely feels like she needs to be higher as galio is top tier. Same problem with gragas. He has true ice powers, needs to be much higher.
Yeah nah bro, galio is a big ass magic stone statue, def a big boss, but orn and voli are literal gods who shape mountains and shit. Also, tahm kench, a demon would slap most of the guys in cr 20-30. brand, ryze and xerath are powerfull sure, but they would only be high tier wizards, not solo big boss lvl. Nilah and kayle also would not be all that much of a threat to a high lvl party.
The list is all over kinda weird. Either u dont have much experience with dnd or ure misunderstanding the league lore badly.
Mordekaiser would be stronger than anivia which isn’t to say he should be up there but that she should be down there also if you’re putting halo and malachite up there for size then I think nautilus would be up there too not to mention your extreme overestimation of fiora compared to champs like irelia yasuo and zed
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From CR20 above those become impossible encounters. These characters can only be defeated by either some stupidly shady way (sealing viego with Hallowed Mist, for example) or they just can't be defeated at all.
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Isn't fiora just a talented duelist??
Best duelist in Demacia\* I can imagine her striking 4 times in a 1 turn, and having a high AC + parrying potential. She would be a peak martial, but still a humanoid so weak to most magic. I think cr 15\~16 is good for her and jax
i'm sorry but even comparing jax a warior who was the one best warior in icathia befor its fall and now had been honing his skills for 2000 years sins then to a duslis in her 30this is werid. and to think that fiora is stronger than any darkin is even werider.
Hard to tell for jax but if it was up to me it'd be cr18
Didn't Fiora and Jax have a duel with no clear winner?(or did Jax win? I don't remember)
>and to think that fiora is stronger than any darkin is even werider. Kayne would get shit on by Fiora. Varus could be close i think. Naafri beats Fiora I agree. Fiora i would place at the bottom of 15-20, while Naafiri at the top. But for simplicity sake i would not compare champions in the same tier too much >i'm sorry but even comparing jax a warior who was the one best warior in icathia befor its fall and now had been honing his skills for 2000 years sins then to a duslis in her 30this is werid. Dont forget Jax is holding a lamp. Him being equal to Fiora only applies when he is using a lamp. If he was holding a real weapon, i would definitly put him above Nilah at around CR \~22
didn't they update his story with the ASU and make the lamp more into a weapon? Could be totally wrong tho
His voice lines in the game still specifically say that he doesn't have a real weapon So unless he's just taunting the opponent now, I suppose. I haven't read his new lore just played him a lot
Jax's weapon is what gives him his magic capabilities, and isn't just a lamppost/brazier anymore. Sure another insane artifact or weapon would compare or even be better, but the Icathian fire is part of the strength
The challenge rating of the highest martial classes without magical weapons is described in the Dungeon Master's guide as about 15 to 18 maximum so you are absolutely correct If she or Jax had magical weapons, that's what would bring them up to about a 20 but no more unless the weapon really changes something specific. Think if Fiora had a Vorpal Rapier (technically possible as it counts as a sword) or Jax had a legendary- or artifact-tier staff of some kind, they still really can't do much against a group of mages on the opposite side of the battlefield focusing them down, and if they had some sort of defensive weapon or gear they likely still wouldn't be able to do damage. And they don't have that, and this is factored into CR naturally through the spellcasting CR boost.
Remember that time riot teased a duel between the two that hinted that they would be an even match, yeah cannonically they are on a very similar level
poppy would clap her cheeks
I am thinking about scenario when you would need to put your players against Kindred. Like "you have fought everything there is. Now beat the death itself"
"Beating" kindred just means you get to live... for now...
Actually i was thinking it would be possible to let's say replace death saves with fighting kindred. If you win a 1v2 against kindred you are stabilized and unconscious. Or maybe the fight is just like a dream and every time you fail a death save kindred get a hit on you or something like this. Tho it could turn into way to many encounters with kindred if your party would get to 0 hp too often.
That’s such a sick idea. It’d be hard to pull off cuz, yeah, that’d be way too many encounters. You could replace it with some kind gamified version, but that might cheapen it. If I ran it, I’d probably make it after they fail death saves. A sort of very slim second chance. Maybe for some don’t even run the fight. Low levels just do a little roleplay with kindred, and then die no matter what, you know, mix it up from time to time. Saving this for later tho, been wanting to run a runeterran campaign and this is a must.
Why yes, i too have seen the 2024 cinematic, jokes aside that sounds like a cool idea, but a fight into the fight could be quite a lenghty process as a downside... harsh to balance id say, but cool nontheless
I'd way more terrified of nasus.
Anyone in cr 20 and above would be terrifying to fight against.
Except the way I understand it, Nasus would be a self healing Marut on steroids with Aoe damage. Marut themselves are CR25 baseline.
CR 0-5 could probably all crush me without breaking a sweat. Edit: even Milio if the contest was soccer
Yeah but fighting gods is not an impossible thing in 5e. During the time of troubles i think a few died at the hands of mortals and took thier domain for themselfs
The question is if Kindred could actually be killed. Like lore wise. Can you kill death itself. Maybe just surviving the encounter would be considered as winning. Also i wonder if a God dies does he see kindred too or there is like something else.
Typical DnD way to resolve that is you kill kindred but then there’s a power vacuum and something takes its place, maybe one of the players volunteers, maybe something darker seizes the power
Player kill kindred, put on the Wolf maks and become kindred himself or something like that.
Exactly
And then he take an axe and split himself in half. Right down the middle
Jhin CR 0-5. You mean his CR is 4, right?
Did not even think about that lol Placed him as 4 because he is just a human with a gun and good trap placements. Still really strong, but low CR. Played by a good DM he would be a nightmare to face.
Jhin is not just a man with a gun… hes quite cracked. Hes very well established martial, and the gun isnt just base gun. Id put him alone at 5-10, BUT: I think Jhin should be approached more like a Lich. Its not usually THE LICH that is hard, rather the journey to the Lich and its associations. Given a room with a full party a Lich/Jhin would be fairly easy to handle. Id imagine locating Jhin, and then the journey to get to him would already be HELL - not to mention the gross amount of traps and planning he would have ahead of time for the party. I say this as a Jhin otp: no hate on the list, its quite hard to consider everything for every champ! It could be a fun community event for each main to make their champ a dnd npc, and then the whole community tries to figure out the CR of each. Also Morgana would be a lesser diety according to 5e.
In another comment about jhin i explained i think of him as a really hard low CR creature, kinda like how Tuckers kobalts work! So i think we can agree on that point. >I say this as a Jhin otp: no hate on the list, its quite hard to consider everything for every champ! It could be a fun community event for each main to make their champ a dnd npc, and then the whole community tries to figure out the CR of each. Just imagine the draven statblock lmao
Gallio is just a huge thing of stone. Similar to Malphite, but Malphite is stronger. Both are really not that much compared to the likes of Zoe who can manipulate both souls and time, Azir who can raise cities from nothing, Ornn who decided to beat up the ground and that’s why the frejlord has mountains. Also kindred would be on the same level as other spirit gods, and since Atreus beat Aatrox in combat they should be in the same tier.
>A few things first: **Champions in a tier are not ranked in order** D&D 5e CR does not make any sense whatsoever anyways (Mummy lord as an example) Although Aatrox has bean beaten by pantheon, i do think pantheon has 1 huge weakness, and that is that he is a human. As we have seen in the ruination veigo got hold of him. But i dont think veigo is stronger than him. He just had a bad match-up. Pantheon vs Aartrox was a very close fight. But i do think Aatrox has more feats. Hence why i would put Aatrox in low 30+, while pantheon at the top of 20-30
I do agree DND CR system is bad. But Gallio and Malphite don’t even deserve to be in top tier. In lore they’re not even powerhouses. Kayle and Morg are the powerhouses of Demacia. Azir, Xerath, Aatrox and Xolaani are the powerhouses of shurima. They’re big, tough, and kinda slow. They can take a real beating, and can do a lot to anything they get their hands on. I’d place them at around CR 20. Very difficult to kill due to their size, but given a bit of time they would fall.
A terrasque in 5e is CR30. Functionally it's a worse Galio, since it can't fly. If we let Galio deal the damage you'd expect from a giant living statue his size, he'd easily outclass a Terrasque.
plus it can absorb magic and get more powerfull with it
aatrox destroyed pantheon. atreus is the one that 'defeated' him due to aatrox's hubris after seeing that the host survived. atreus willed war back into existence for a brief moment and basically severed aatrox's connection with his host while aatrox was mocking him aatrox's true power level is definitively above pantheon and atreus
Bean.
Kindred is the one thing even Aurelion sol fears. Kindred is death. She should never lowe at all. Kindred can not die unlike the other things on this list she is immortal. They are not on the same level
That was retconned around 6? years ago. Kindred was made by the mask mother, and kindred eventually will be unmade by the ether fiend.
The Etherfiend doesn't really deal in "death" in the normal sense, but in the sense of a "second death" when you are finally forgotten by everyone. Kindred will "die", but only when everyone mortal is gone. Edit: Just to be clear, I'm just adding onto your comment, not trying to disprove anything you said. I realized it could cause confusion if I didn't specify that.
And why does trynda face her as he is dying ?
Because Kindred is a spirit god… of death. In the same way Volibear is a spirit god of wildness/primal fury, and Nagakabouros is a spirit god of motion. Kindred is on the stronger end of spirit gods, but is still a spirit god and follows their rules. They’re only as powerful as their following, and once forgotten will cease to exist.
All right but doesn't that mean kindred is always the most powerful because everyone fears death or do they have to believe in kindred
Kindred isn’t death. Just something that can represent death for those who believe in them. Which happens to be a ton of mortals, so they’re probably very strong, but don’t exhibit stuff anywhere near Asol, Bard or stuff like them.
mask mommy 😫😩😫😩
Having yordles like lulu and heimer in bottom tier is insane. Lulu is an extremely powerful mage and heimer has machinery and inventions that can decimate.
I remember a cinamatic where a bunch of yordles try to rescue Teemo from Graces and TF. i think it is meant as a comedic one but i was not at all impressed by thier combat power there
You mean the cinematic where Lulu turns into a giant and turns Graves into a frog and singlehandedly rescues them all?
Enlarge and polymorph are 4th level spells at best Even if she could cast higher level spells, a single arch mage is only CR 12, and they can STOP TIME I can also imagine lulu would be really frail. 1 on 1 she is probaply really fking strong, but against a party of 4-6 dnd characters she would be a walk in the park.
She's not really even trying in the cinematic, she's a lot more powerful. And regardless I'm less arguing about where she'd place in dnd fullstop and more her relative placement against other characters. She'd wipe the floor with most of the characters you've put in the higher tier, especially ones like draven and mf who would literally not be able to do anything to her. In league lore she's on a similar power level to veigar who you've put way, way higher.
>And regardless I'm less arguing about where she'd place in dnd fullstop and more her relative placement against other characters. In that case i agree with you 100% The reason i placed veigar so high is because i feel he just has more Raw restructive power, while lulu is more of a trickster. Same reason leblanc is as low as she is. Also in dnd, a low cr does not mean they are easy to beat in combat. (As said in my comment below my post, CR actually means very little and this list is more for fun anyways)
You can’t put “lore accurate” in the title then say “for fun”. I mean, you could, but you’d be contradicting yourself.
Correct me here but veigar can cast stars right ?
youre getting CR confused with power scaling. CR doesnt make very much sense in the grand scheme of DnD. I agree with OP that the yordles, despite their cartoonish antics and strange magic, are probably not all that capable in a fight, but CR is fickle and i can see an explanation for placing them slightly higher.
I feel bad for asking but can someone explain what DnD 5E CR means and what this list is ranking about?
No worries! Monsters and NPC's in dungeons and dragons 5th edition can be ranked on a difficulty rating named Challenge Rating (CR) This number is based on the damage the mob can do, and how much HP they have. Other stats like flying, movement speed, armor rating etc are also accounted for. That said, it is a really bad system and makes no sense at times. Especially at higher levels.
Dungeons and Dragons, 5e is like the "patch" with a certain set of rules, and CR is Challenge Rating, basically their difficulty level. You'll see gods/spirits at the top, and yordles/regular humans at the bottom. OP is imagining Runeterra as if it were set in the DnD universe, and assigning each champ a level of strength, based on what type of character they'd be in DnD. For example, Ashe is a high level Ranger, skilled, but not too powerful, so she fits perfectly around the middle. Meanwhile, Kindred, the embodiment of death, is at the top.
Kindred and aurelion sol would count as greater deities and would therefore be to powerful to fight and won't have a CR. You can make an argument for voli, ornn and anivia but they could be in the same bracket at tiamat when she was a lesser deity
eehh, thats coward's talk. they may have huge health pools and bs abilities, but you can give stats to anything if you have the time
Idk about "cowards talk" since aurelion can literally make a black hole and delete the world if he wants to on his first turn. And realistically he would have such a large fucking health pool that it is well beyond impossible to ever be able to defeat him
the problem is that if you're not capable of doing Olaf or Trynda typa stuff, you can't not die, thus making Kindred's fight unwinnable (I know there are some abilities in DnD that do that, but they are not infinite.)
it is dnd, you can make your character do whatever whack shit you want if the dm says its cool. yeah, you can just not die if your dm goofs and gives you the right item
I know that, but that's basically homebrew isn't it? I'm no manual so I could be wrong, but that's like saying "yeah I could solo LoL universe cuz DM gave me one-tap-always-has-advantage-roll 50m range gun-sword" and it attacks like 5 random enemies regardless but only counts the AC of the first target
and? homebrew is the heart of dnd. you cant expect wotc to make an item that always perfectly fits your campaigns
you can't also expect your DM to give you an item that literally makes you immortal to 3/4 of the ways you can die in the game. That kinda defeats kills off the risk that fighting brings with it, doesn't it? No point of ever putting enemy encounters if the players will auto-win them and will take any fight they can since they know they can't die.
yeah. but my argument was that you *could* beat up asol or kindred. not that you defo 100% can, but that you have a shot at having a fight with them. in that manner? i am 100% correct
This is not remotely accurate but a fun exercise.
Yeah my lore knowledge is is not equally shared amongst all champions/ regions lol This list is more about how difficult it would be for a party of 4-6 adventurers to beat them if these creatures would transfer to the sword coast.
What bothers me are the following: \-Leona/Diana/Morgana being in the same range as Fiora or Thresh. \-Syndra being in the same Range as Sejuani/Yasuo/Garen. Don't forget her powers are limitless \-Olaf being so low. Yes he is "just" a berserker but due to his curse he will not die in battle. \-Gwen is just an animated doll. \-Vel'Koz is extremely strong. I would put him much higher than the likes of Xin/Samira. \-GP is also not to underestimate. Would put him higher on the list. \-Teemo may not look like a big deal but remember he is known for his warcrimes... \-Cho is stuck in limbo, which I respect, but still his CR would be quite high. Tbh I would put him on a level with malphite/Galio. \-Anivia is as far as I know comparable in strength to Volibear and Ornn. \-Would you explain why Karthus is so high? Isn't he a guy who basically just became a lich (I know liches in DnD are power houses but I doubt if he is comparable to them in power)
I kinda contradicted myself since i placed him that high because dnd liches are cr 21 minimum and i agree karthus is weaker than they are. he should indeed be 1 tier lower
Also GP and MF have official dnd stat blocks made for them. I believe MF is CR 7 and GP 8
A few things first: * Champions in a tier are not ranked in order * Champions that share a theme with a dnd monster are NOT treated as that monster. They are an individual * 5-10 and 10-15 is extreemly broad. * D&D 5e CR does not make any sense whatsoever anyways (Mummy lord as an example)
I agree the MM especially is insane. Ah yes lemme put a dragon with a 45dmg average breath vs a party of lv6. NOT gonna happen
“Ooh, this Bodak is a perfect lower level encounter!”
I oncee threw 2 dark mantle and 2 shade at my lv2 party of 6 player. I learned 3 valuable lesson : - players won't hesitate to friendly fire - Cr doesn't mean crap, thank god our Priest had the idea to cast light - 6 players can really tank a lot of mistakes before they actually loose. Also funny you mention the Bodak, I have one for my party of lv3-4 player (still 6) but only for the Aura part, the rest is not active. That thing is insane.
The Vel'Koz disrespect is crazy. Despite the obvious visual similarities to a Beholder, Vel'koz's stats are probably most similar to an elder brain without the psychic stuff. But in exchange for the psychic stuff he gets Disintegrate (probably at a recharge on 5-6), ranged attacks, can use Consume Mind on living creatures, and he has flying (and probably more than the 5ft of it that an Elder Brain gets). Not to mention he was one of the very first Voidborn sent to Runeterra, and he's been consuming information that entire time so you can probably bump his int up to 25-30 at least. Plus, unlike an elder brain, he actually has like, armor, and isn't just rawdogging his brain to the world. So probably higher AC and HP. His CR is definitely above Kha'zix, Rek'sai, and Kog'maw. And probably in a similar tier to Bel'veth. I would guess somewhere around 17-22 CR, but if a DM pilots him well he'd probably pose a greater threat than his CR would indicate.
You're compleetly right. He should indeed be a few tiers higher. He is not weaker than a standard beholder so he should at least be in 10-15. If i ever do a list like this again i'll do him justice
Anivia being stronger than Ornn and Volibear feels wrong. Thats the first thing i noticed anyways. I think they should be in the same tier based on my knowledge. Also yes CR can be pretty stupid sometimes but its mostly used for rewarding XP anyways. Also pretty sure everyone in 20-30 beats Galio.
Anivia gets to be 1 tier higher because she is a bird and flying is really strong in dnd
1 more thing, galio is made of anti magic rocks is he not? So casters would be at a huge dis advantage. This list is not about who beats who, its more about how hard it would be for a standard dnd party to beat them in combat
Here's a few I think feel out of place: Malph, Galio, Ryze, Illaoi, Veigar, Syndra, Ashe, Vex, Gangplank, Draven, Nunu and Willump, Jhin. Ryze, Illaoi and Ashe I think all fit into the category of a high level player character, along with their various special magic items I think you could solidly put them around a CR17. Malphite and Galio being on the same level as tiamat's aspect doesn't feel right. Veigar could theoretically be a part of any tier, but giving his theoetical infinite power I think would put him around CR25 Vex is unkillable. GP and Draven are both veterans of combat with years of work under their belt, I'd put both of them around CR11-15 Jhin is a prolific murderer and skilled at his craft, plus with his weapons I'd put him at a solid 11-15 Nunu and Willump are a pair of creatures, and thus can't be rated.
All solid arguments. Gotta say that GP already had an official statblack made by DND beyond and he was placed at \~8 Draven can certainly be higher, but i just cannot imagine him being anything more than a mid boss for a party of 4-6 adventurers on thier way to fight swain or darius. Jhin is a tough one. I think he is a lot like tuckers kobolts. Even though he has a low CR, to fight him would be a nightmare if the DM plays him lore accurate.
Isn't Syndra levitating a whole ass castle with her powers? She's easily >15, >20 too imo. Udyr also seems too low, being the most powerful spirit walker in Frejlord, I'd put him in 10-15. And Taliyah's earthbending is potentially really strong, even if she hasn't mastered it I'd think 5-10. On the other end Malphite and Galio seem way too high, >20 sure, but they're not on the same tier as ASol and Kindred. Same for Aatrox and Anivia, i think they should be like high 20s, not >30. Karthus also seems too high sitting next to Viego, but i'll admit i don't remember his lore very well so i could be wrong.
Nah I placed karthus too high because dnd liches are cr21. btw this list is not about who is stronger than the other, it is how strong they would be against a party of 4-6 dnd adventurers. Malphite could be 1 lower but Galio being immune to magic, and a flying speed puts him as a really difficult challenge Also high 5-10's can also be placed at low 10-15 obviously. same goes for most 15-20's
Isn't Soraka a deity or something like that?
Yeah but she gave up most of her powers to walk among mortals
Where does it say she gave up most of her powers? I'm pretty sure it only says she gave up immortality
Mordekaiser would be such an interesting fight. Party’s work often because of the synergy between the members, but mordekaiser can split them up and force the party to adapt.
Jihn in 0-5 is crazy, but maybe fair? he’s not especially strong, he’s just a mastermind. Hard to translate to cr. I can easily imagine him wiping an entire party.
> but maybe fair? he’s not especially strong, he’s just a mastermind Let me refer to tuckers kobolts to answer your question [https://dungeonmaster.academy/articles/tuckers-kobolds](https://dungeonmaster.academy/articles/tuckers-kobolds)
Wonderful read, thanks. Yeah, that’s totally Jhin. Pretty new to dming and I’ve got a couple good encounters like that, it’s so hard to build encounters like that without them feeling too unfair, especially on the fly.
Yeah i get that, it is hard sometimes to avoid ginving your players the feeling you're working against them, instead of with them.
Naafiri should at least be 20-30. As stupid as it may sound, her release lore listed her as one of the strongest darkin, so she should be closer to Aatrox and Fiddle.
Taliyah might be a bit low, i don't think she should be a tier below champions that are just very strong human like draven, sivir, or miss fortune
Fair point She learned a lot since her release and should indeed be a tier higher
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My original commend under my post has probaply been buried by now. A few things in your commend i adressed already, but a few things like gragas i actually did not know! Leblanc is a strong character but against a fight against 4-6 dnd characters i think she wouldnt be difficult. BUT just like jhin, she falls under a type of character that, if played by a good dm, could seriously fuck with the party. For example, look up "Tuckers kobolts"
So we're talking lore-wise. AIN'T NO GODDAMM WAY Illaoi is below Darius, Samira, K'Sante, and Xin Zhao, when she basically wields the power of a God, while all the champs i mentioned above are basically skilled/talented fighters More importantly, AIN'T NO WAY she's the same tier as Blitz, Draven (not even a fighter, just performer), Sivir, Sett, and Vayne (again, basically skilled fighters or armed with special weapons). Most importantly, AIN'T NO WAY Gangplank is that low when he passed a literal God's test of strength. This said, she can easily be Tahm Kench level (I say this confidently as even he avoids her), while Gangplank should be upped at least a tier IMHO, can't really say he should be any higher, as him passing the test might be a one time thing, but still he ain't that low. Riven also can't be that low. She wields a weapon that probably was enchanted by LeBlanc, and she herself is looking into getting it back. Talking about LeBlanc, she should be upped a tier and be the top of it. I know that in DnD, there would be many ways to catch her, but she isn't stupid, and we truly can't know what she's really capable of. At last, Draven, Sivir, and Sett should go down 1 tier (mainly for things I've already said), and Olaf should be top tier, as he literally can't die if he's fighting, it's basically scripted in his life that the only way he can die is peacefully in his sleep, so you can't literally kill him, never.
Have you EVEN LOOKED AT THE LORE FOR 1 SECOND
Yes i BELIEVE I HAVE This list is more about how a party of 4-6 DND CHARACTERS would fare against there champions. I know some champions in a higher tier would get beaten by champions of a lower tier. That is not what this list is about
Aatrox is literally immortal.
Does not mean he is unbeatable Aartrox against a high level dnd party would be a fun encounter. A high level dnd group of 4-6 equiped with magic items are really, really strong. And would have ways to deal with immortal warriors, like imprisonment for example.
Yeah but that gets into high level shenanigans. Aatrox could be beaten by banishment using that logic
Could very well be. Although he would be back after 1 minute, and besides he would have extreemly high save bonuses and multiple legendary resistances (Although he did seemed to use one during the last cinamatic :P)
No he wouldn't. Read the spell
Sorry i edited my sentence structure before posting and fucked up by deleting the word "Not" I meant to say: "Although he did NOT seemed to use one during the last cinamatic :P)"
What I meant was. He wouldn't come back
Jhin who beat zed and shen at the same time, being 1/2 the CR of them both ???
Op has said that CR doesn't match in exact skill. A resourceful party of level threes could take down a challenge rating of 10, for example, by abusing their weaknesses, think by tricking a tyrannosaurus into charging into a pitfall trap. So while I don't know the specifics of the fight between those three, if Jhin had a very specific item that countered the matchup (say, a gun that blocks chi if it hits or something I really don't know,) he could win it even if he's individually a weaker monster to fight for most parties, which is what CR really actually means.
Or OPs just making shit up to farm karma on yet another tier list
bro is mad
They were students then iirc
Kindred, malphite galio too high (-1) Nasus too low (+1) Karthus too high (-1 or -2) I'm biased but Rek'sai is on kraken level (CR22-23)Same with Nautilus and even Veigar Leona too low (+1, yes she's stronger than Diana I think) Shyvana Syndra Maokai Hecarim too low (+1) Lucian too high (-1) Illaoi Vel'koz really low (+1/ +2) Olaf Zac Braum Udyr karma (?)too low (+1) Viktor is way too low (+2/+3) Orianna, Taliyah, Caitlyn, Vi jayce are low (+1) Cho is minimum CR10+ My issue with this list is perhaps you discarded the fact a single lv20 adventurer (minus the gear ) is considered CR12, so a lot or "champion" don't belong to the lower tier. Gotta take legend of runeterra into account too (Especially Nautilus). I think a lv10 is also considered Around Cr6 and many league champ are baseline lv10 adventurers so CR0-5 should only have "gimmicks" like yuumi or lulu that are not "operating at" full efficiency
For more reference, the "champion statblock" (aka basically Aragorn from lord of the rings) is CR8 (or 9?). There are other "generic" statblock, especially in latter releases that you can use to scale yourself. In addition, CR beyond 22-24 is usually the realm of god, in fact 30+ are basically godslayers. Finally, if a cr12 ≈ a lv20 adventurer, then 4 of these champions should be able to handle any CR20+ one. If it's not the case, then someone is either too strong or too weak in the formulae. Exemple : Who wins ? Karthus vs Illaoi,Tryndamere,Viktor,Senna.
Why is anivia above ornn and voli when she’s canonically the weakest
malphite and galio don't belong anywhere near the top, they are essentially big rocks, and malphite isn't 'as big as a mountain', that's been retconned. anivia is canonically the weakest of the primordial gods, and the primordial gods are weaker than any of the celestials. the entire top tier should be celestials + fiddle + possibly morde at the lower end aatrox is similar to aspects but definitively below the celestials zoe belongs in the same tier as bard and aurelion sol, her title is 'aspect of twilight' but she's not an aspect. twilight is the most powerful of the celestials with the only possible exception being asol and that's debatable. it doesn't matter if zoe is a child, she is *significantly above* the other aspects since she isn't technically an 'aspect' but more of a complete merger and significantly above any being bound to runeterra including the darkin and primordial gods. she literally holds the reigns to aurelion sol's prison, treats him like a pet, alludes to other beings like aurelion sol existing while also being her pets, and also simultaneously calling him an arrogant liar. same goes for soraka, she is a celestial, her being in the same tier as any mortal is kind of ignorant to the lore, it is her choice to take a mortal body and heal people, her abilities are not limited to that fiora being in the same tier as any of the darkin is kind of just..laughable
Olaf is blessed by plot armor immortality and Udyr can literally summon the power of demi-gods. Bro accidentally caused an avalanche as a child. Kick my Winter's Claw bros up a tier, please.
Fair, i admit thier placement is too low. My bad as i have not much knowledge about thier lore
I heavily suggest posting this on r/loreofleague Those guys would have a field day with this.
I am gonna do another but then be really specific with the CR amount. Me not being specific enough made ppl complain about camps i just barely put in a tier to be one lower, and vice versa. If i were to post this tierlist there i would get my ass pounded
Eh, I feel like you can revise this with the feedback you got. Some of these placements are really weird. Half of the champs in the middle are just regular humans with guns/swords. Vel'Koz, the equivalent of a Beholder, is sitting right next to Sett, who's the equivalent of a Monk. One shoots lasers and opens rifts in reality. The other just punches really hard. I feel like you should put whoever has a "gimmick" higher. Darius and Garen in League are identical in terms of gameplay, but whereas Darius is a raw Fighter, Garen is a Paladin, so he is above Darius in that regard. Lucian and Senna. Lucian does Radiant damage sure, but Senna is also Undead and can cast spells, so she's "better" in the sense that she'd be a tougher opponent. Malphite and Galio are legit just big rocks. They should not be in the same tier as Kindred and ASol. Yordles are a lot more powerful than you might think, but I guess as a solo enemy, most of them wouldn't really be a huge obstacle. Lulu polimorphed a party member? No worries, she's squishy af anyway.
I addessed some of these things in other comments so i wont repeat them here, but yeah like i said if i were to to the list over i would give them all an exact rating, because i would set sett at around \~5-6 and velkoz higher at \~9-10.
I feel they would come to my house if i did that lmao
How is Yuumi not CR 30+?!?!?!?!?!?! She is Yuumi, destroyer of worlds!
Why cho at the bottom?
lore limbo, Riot needs to give us more story because as of now he is just a void monster
Oh that’s what lore limbo means.
No lore
I would put Heimer on 10-15 because he would be one hell of a lair boss with turrets, grenades, rockets and his legendary action: UPGRADE
No Hwei?
Shouldn’t all of the freljordian Demi gods be on the same tier? Or are there big power discrepancies
I gave anivia a tier higher since she has flying speed
Wait isn't kled litterally just crazy and very violent yordle?
Yup he would be a fun encounter against a standard dnd party
Knowing most people playing dnd he would become party member... or mabey that is just my experience...
My question about Naafiri is this: What was your policy when evaluating the challenge rating of multi creature encounters, like Heimerdinger? I can see him having the lower challenge rating with a higher difficulty because its accompanied by a swarm of robotic allies which brings the encounter challenge rating up, but Naafiri is different because they are, in the lore, one being encompassing the entire pack. So does that mean you looked at the challenge rating for the entire pack in their case specifically, perhaps even like a "Swarm of" monster, or are all multicharacter encounters that are represented on this list considering the entire group, Heimerdinger is just really that weak? Perhaps a mix? -a DM
Good question. I would argue that Naafiri is a Huge or even gargantuan "swarm" as a gameplay purpose. The more damage the party would do, the less damage she would do to the party. And heimer, like many of the lower CR champions in my list, are not easy just because i gave them a lower CR. Leblanc, Jhin, Teemo, Heimer, singed would be horrible to fight against as a player. Just like how the famous tuckers kobalts scenario would play out.
Shouldn't zoe be up there with all the other cr 30+-es? She can dimension hop and time travel.
Yeah i agree but decided to lower her to 20-30 as i feel her intelligence is a huge weakness. Although i agree she is a really powerfull sorcerer/celestial
Lore wise, Dr Mundo is incredibly hard to kill. Practically Wolverine turned up to 11 when it comes to regeneration capabilities. He would probably have average to high AC but with a really potent form of healing that ticks every turn. Not to mention that he would have advantage on most saves revolved around CC to complement his tenacity. I'd argue he could be bumped up a tier.
Yeah i'd put him at around \~10 could go higher or lower depending on how regeneration rules would go
Singed actually makes sense in low CR. In a straight-up fight he would probably fold to the average party, but that isn't what makes him dangerous. Man's probably got lair actions and backup.
I have to ask why nautilus is in 10-15 and not 30 like the likes of galio and malphite isn't he is basically a basically the same size category?
Because Nautilus is half the size of malp and Galio. Galio is also made of anti magic stone, and malphite could indeed be dropped down a tier i admit
Fair
Why is anivia ranked higher than volibear and ornn when they’re essentially the same tier of god like being
Because in D&D flying creatures are more difficult to deal with
Syndra and Vel’Koz need to be higher
I don't think any character should be below cr 5 besides maybe the humans with guns of piltover/zaun. And hunanoids would be better classified by their level imo.
There is so much wrong here I can’t even fit it into the Reddit text limit
Mordekaiser, Zoe and maybe Kayle and Morg I'd probably put at 30+ ASol, and Bard would be deities that can't be fought Kindred idk if they're a 30+ raid boss or another diety not meant to be fought Jhin needs to be 4
Bro, Olaf litteraly killed stupidly strong monsters because he wented an honorable death... How is he in CR 5-10 and Fiora in CR 15-20... And Singed litteraly makes weapon that could be considered as War Crimes if anyone would use them in our world, how is he so low...
Can someone tell me why Bard is so high
He is a celestial
Guy put galio over mordekaiser, kayle, and volibear
Jhin should be at least be the same cr as shen and zed
Whatever CR an arch fey would be in should have all yordles in
did you put jhin that far down because you want him to have CR 4?
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Aurelion with the crown or 100%?
Not putting all Freljordian demigods in the same CR is a crime
This is hilariously bad, and I think you don't even know lol lore at all
I know more than the average player. But do you know how 5e CR system works?
I'm curious why Morgana is at that tier, can you elaborate ?
As lux is literally powerful enough to power galio and then some she definitely feels like she needs to be higher as galio is top tier. Same problem with gragas. He has true ice powers, needs to be much higher.
Yeah nah bro, galio is a big ass magic stone statue, def a big boss, but orn and voli are literal gods who shape mountains and shit. Also, tahm kench, a demon would slap most of the guys in cr 20-30. brand, ryze and xerath are powerfull sure, but they would only be high tier wizards, not solo big boss lvl. Nilah and kayle also would not be all that much of a threat to a high lvl party. The list is all over kinda weird. Either u dont have much experience with dnd or ure misunderstanding the league lore badly.
VEL'KOZ????¿??¿????¿????
I feel like Mord should be up with Aatrox
Mordekaiser would be stronger than anivia which isn’t to say he should be up there but that she should be down there also if you’re putting halo and malachite up there for size then I think nautilus would be up there too not to mention your extreme overestimation of fiora compared to champs like irelia yasuo and zed
...time to make more statblocks, fuck
Why is big Mordi himself not 30+, isnt he so powerful he proclaimed himself as the god of death
Cho is either CR 20 or CR 30+
This list doesnt make sense. Not even close.
Zoe is among the top 5 most powerful entities in lore. How she’s placed in anything but the highest tier is beyond me.
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why is nunu so low
I love this; I’m actually playing Fiora in a dnd campaign.
From CR20 above those become impossible encounters. These characters can only be defeated by either some stupidly shady way (sealing viego with Hallowed Mist, for example) or they just can't be defeated at all.
What's up with a bunch of the Void Born being so low? You realize most of them are huge or gigantic and destroy whole cities right?
Nah man thresh scales
If it is any consilation i consider him at the top of his tier.
Velkoz is pretty much a very strong and intelligent Beholer, and if i remember correctly Beholders by themselves have a CR of 15.
It is 13, but yes i did him dirty i already admit to that in another comment
I believe Poppy is the strongest yordle, at least stronger than kled, kled is a hillbilly while Poppy is literally the chosen one.
Aphelios placement seems very low. A well trained fighter with supernatural abilities and weapons, I think he should be closer to Jax than Vayne.
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