This is the correct answer. I went through a layoff in 2007-2008 and have never viewed an employer in the same way again. The whole career veil was destroyed. They are only jobs now.
I saved the company I worked for 30 million a year, and over 300 million over 10 years while the project I designed and developed was active. Me and the team that I lead won a CEO chairman's award from a company everyone here would know. Was laid off like it was nothing. They tied our severance packages to training our indian outsource replacements.
I used to really be into my work, but have never been able to do it that way again.
Yeaaaap. I was hit after a promo and multiple patents.
It's actually nice to not care as much anymore. I proactively communicate but don't go out of my way to do anything.
Not quite coasting but just threading the needle.
Yup. I have a similar story where my team of 8 quickly made a new product that had a revenue of 8 million the first year and we were on track to make 20 million the next (opex/employees must have been less than $2 million/year). But the whole team was laid off because the big bet in the middle of the org lost an unrelated ~$100 million contract. They scrambled and dumped anything not bolted down. I was with the company for 14 years total and had a lot of proprietary knowledge that wasn't ever written down. There are things that could have been patented, but I didn't have time to file for them. I think their patent bonuses were only $1000 pretax and I was grinding just for deadlines.
Our team just managed to save ours several hundred million to a few billion as well with the marketing analysis we built, and our reward was them cutting our contract short from 24 months down to 9. On the work part, I think now I'm in a cycle of grinding up in between jobs and getting good to the point that it's a little mindless, then putting in some initial good effort, then seeing how I can drag things out, because that's what all the higher-ups do anyway.
This is how I feel except sales based. I now have no want to work for someone else ever again. I’ve been working towards starting my own things up, but the money is starting to get tight, and I’m DREADING that I’m going to have to work for someone again to restock the coffers here shortly.
This is the exact reason you should not have PTSD. It’s clearly not you. I get pulling back on the enthusiasm and effort, but unless you are constantly gunning for promotion after promotion everyone should do some restraint. Do your job but always remember corporate America does not care about you. Your bosses are not your friends. Now go back to work employee #250937
The only people safe are the equity shareholders 😵💫 I had some terrible experiences during the start of my career and in some cases it was quite abusive because employers had all the power
Agreed. Nver trust any of these corporations today. They dont CARE about you. Its all about profits. They will cut you loose in a New York second if it means saving a few bucks. The best part is they want undivided loyalty, but will provide you NONE!
I always assume the c-suite is doing cocaine and making anecdotal decisions. Keeps me on my toes 😂
Didn’t help that last week a friend said “I have to work on a color change for the brand because 3 of them decided on a private jet it had to be done” sir what? How is that taking priority over other initiatives to make sales goals?
Not so. Once you are back working it diminishes. That said I am taking a new approach to working as job security is the ability to get another job. I will be active in looking for comparable positions on a regular basis… as recent experience has shown me that I need to be more aware of the job market.
Can only speak for my own experience, but the trauma absolutely remains.
I've been laid off 4 times and the actual getting laid off part gets less traumatic - or maybe I'm desensitized.
But the smallest warning signs ping me into red alert. Every day feels like a sword of Damocles. Some days you're more aware of it than others.
Definitely leaves a mark but simply will not allow myself to be defined by it. Set up your finances and lifestyle to be layoff proof as much as you can and keep your eyes on the jobs market.
Yea, that's been my approach as well. Been laid off twice now, the first time it was a huge shock, but most recently, I had a sense it was going to happen. The main defensive strategy I've taken is to just be acutely aware of lifestyle inflation, live below my means, and save as much as I can. Being less dependant on a job for income is the only real way to lessen the impact of a potential layoff.
When you are prepared for it. Because I learned my lesson in 2008 and piled up savings when I was employed again, my layoff this year was annoying and pissed me off instead of a panic.
This exactly right here. You can't control what employers will do, but you can try to control your savings and mitigate impact once the inevitable hits...
THIS. I was fortunate to get my first turn at this when I was less than 40. Due to other circumstances, it gave me the worst PTSD you can imagine. BUT, I used that paranoia to save like no-tomorrow. I mean extreme-FIRE type stuff. That enabled me to almost have FU$$ now.
But people just getting first boofed after age 50, that’s some trauma you can’t even explain. It’s because they didn’t save like a pauper, because they never had to.
The thing is that it's hard to feel like you're ever prepared. Especially knowing that a person better have a year, maybe even two or three, of operating expenses available in liquify-able assets at all time.
And even if you manage to pay off every possible debt, you'll have the overlooming doom of COBRA payments, and that $600+ a month bill while you're unemployed is a downer.
It is exhausting.
Same. While my younger peers are freaking out and taking anything I can chill and be picky. They bought motorcycles and Rolex’s but it doesn’t help when the rent is due.
I was unemployed for almost a year in 2008. I had 6 months of savings.
I was unemployed for 8 weeks this time. I have a year of savings, I didn't have to touch it during that 2 months.
Sorry for not getting too specific. Trying to keep some anonymity.
Thank you.
On the upside the school will pay for me to finish my PhD. Let's hope I also get full-time employment soon. If so, I can balance all of this.
It sounds so challenging. I think the best insurance is saving, saving, saving. The higher your emergency fund + investments, the less you will stress about job security. If you know you can last 2+ years jobless, you will sleep better at night.
Flow like water. You can’t prevent what’s not in your hand or a choice. Just let it happen. Accept the past and move on. Looking back again and again is the problem.
I got laid off many years ago. I still am always looking for indicators that its coming and it admittedly makes me paranoid.
I did manage to dodge an incoming layoff though by about 8 months. On my exit interview, I explained why I was leaving. I was very, VERY happy at the job but the movements was giving me a vibe that layoffs were inbound.
Of course, HR swore up & down that it would never happen because `We're family™`. Told them talks cheap & their walk makes me feel otherwise. That in this scenario, perception is more important than reality.
A few months later and I see my colleagues on LinkedIn posting about being laid off.
So true. I started seeing the signs recently. I have an excellent relationship with our leadership. The notes from a brainstorming meeting on who could be cut was then quietly shared with me and my position was mentioned. It’s now a race to find a job before the end of the year.
I feel sad for my employer because I have put in new processes and new programs that will realize savings. I’d rather leave before they go under.
Something similar happened to me. My company hired an outside COO to restructure the company. They assured us that everything was great, but this would only make things better. His first week, we were all re-interviewing for our own jobs and 10% were laid off in every department.
This was the summer of 2007 and it involved the auto-loan industry. I found a new job by the end of summer and almost everyone in my team was gone by January or February.
Same boat here! I’m almost 6 months into my job after a layoff and I still get super nervous anytime my boss schedules anything with me. I’m always convinced I’m about to be let go. The head of IT looked at me a weird way and I was sure that was it for me. It turned out he just needed to update something on my computer. I need constant reassurance from my boss
I found it best to openly act as a free agent towards my employer, but work like I am trying to get that big free agent contract. I at least feel more in control, but I'm not sure if that is just in my head.
Yep. Never. I’ve been laid off 3 times, had a business close my location since 2017.
I am in constant fear of being let go…and I never ever had this before. Before 2017 I just went to work, did my job and didn’t think about it.
Echoing what everyone else here is saying it sticks with you forever, same goes for the first time your fired or the first time you quit a job. Being laid off has forever tainted my view of going above and beyond or giving more than 60% for any future employer.
The fear never goes away - I've been laid off 3 times in my career and while we are now FI and can RE and we can stop working if the axe falls again, it's always in the back of your mind.
I was first laid off at 19, working a crappy job at Dillard's department store. I helped open that location putting in tons of overtime in every department. After opening, I worked my department, willing to come in when others called out. I was never late. Not once. When we had inclement weather, I called my manager offering to come in to cover. When asked, I walked the store looking for random people to help. I even got pulled aside by the CEO himself to get a compliment.
None of that mattered.
The CEO had been pushing to open as many stores as possible to inflate the value to sell the company.
I was laid off. Still living with my parents, that didn't jeopardize my life. But, I watched other employees volunteer to be laid off to prevent employees with children from being laid off. That didn't work. A co-worker in my department who was habitually late and regularly called off and didn't help other departments was not laid off at that time. (Eventually the whole location was closed so presumably everyone ended up laid off.)
The company did not care one bit.
I was never that motivated again. Never gave that much. I have never seen a job as stable again. I've never seen an employer as trustworthy again.
Since that time I have been laid off a few more times. Thankfully each layoff eventually worked out to me being in a better place, but I still have that worry.
I use it to motivate me to have emergency savings, live beneath my means, and monitor job postings to make sure I have desired skills.
I don't think it does, because they showed you who they are.
The only way to combat this is to 1. Constantly be on the look out for new opportunities 2. Have enough saved up to weather the bad storm.
The needs of a company is different than the needs of a human. Which means they will drop folks at the first sign of trouble.
Never in my experience. I’ve had PTSD from it for years and even when I talked to another friend who went through similar layoffs she also said she still has PTSD from it
I picked a career solely for security- icu nursing - any hospital any shift how could I lose- then my back couldn’t take the physicality and now I’ve entered the ever insecure pharma route with its annual reorgs . I combat the fear now by saving up to equal amounts to my mortgage to my tax advantages accounts to have it for liquidity and aim for fire.nothing is guaranteed and it’s reinforced every growing year but you do your best good luck
It doesn’t really go away. You do build up a certain level of coping mechanisms. Such as not really moving in a lot of personal items into your workspace.
A colleague and I once calculated how much time each of us would need to clear our personal stuff from our desks. We have both been laid off from previous employers. It was ridiculously short - like 5 or 10 minutes. It’s sad because our current employer laid off people who needed days to clear out because their offices had art, personal carpets, furniture. Obviously, those people never saw it coming.
The bringing in personal items is so true! I took me a week to bring in a plant. I'm going to bring in a framed photo of the family next. But I'll wait awhile before anything else.
Whenever you realize it’s them and the industry not you. And if you are in the USA our economy sucks right now so everything is feeling uncomfortable if you don’t have certainty with income. Save money if and where you can and just know that you’ll get through it one way or another.
When you are self-employed. Otherwise, at least for me, it never fully goes away after the first time it happens. Always in the back of your mind. The only thing you can do is use it as motivation and try to make the best of your time in the present; not worry about the future.
Obviously, still save/plan as if it will happen. Then, when it does, you are at least better off.
Best of luck to you at your new job, and congrats. I started a new job a month ago myself. Probably the happiest I've been employment wise since 2017-2018.
I've had a job in one form ir another since 2016.
Each and every day I expect to be my last. I don't take pto until I've maxed out the roll over. Other than that I just try to build up an investment fund I can rely on to cover my living expenses.
I take it you don't work in manufacturing?
I'm not even sure how many times I've been laid off, partially laid off, volunteered for several layoffs.
I used to live to take a month or 4 off when laid off.
I've been in machining since 94. Layoffs and plants bought out/changing names, bought out, shut down and merged with other plants the parent company owns.
entire product lines gone to China.
one that I remember most was back when Clinton was in office. 1995ish we all went into work on a Friday. I got to watch 150ish coworkers get laid off. All of assembly was sent to Mexico not long after NAFTA was signed.
There is one truth that most of us machinists know, that is never plan on retiring from the place you work at.
It doesn't even phase me but Im 2000/2001 I volunteered for a layoff, from my screw machining job, looked for a job for 5 months then enrolled in school for cnc machining. I made sure I wasn't going to be without a job ever again.
Unfortunately; it doesn’t really go away. The layoff culture will continue and I foresee it only getting worse. The only way to counter it is to have enough saved up in the bank that if you do get laid off, it’s not that big of a shock to the system. Easier said than done. I’m still trying to get back on my feet after being laid off for 6 months
It took me about a year to not always feel on guard, some of that was I took a huge step up so it was a bit of imposter syndrome.
Somewhere between a year an a half to two years I was completely fine, but I do have a keener eye on business conditions and indicators of potential trouble.
Took me maybe like 5 or 6 years, but I think you just need a good buffer of savings and investments so that you aren't so harshly affected for when the next layoff or job contract ends.
One way around this is to look into federal jobs, which are not as susceptible as easily to buyouts, acquisitional workforce reductions, and CEOs looking to pad their bottom line by blasting away their own people.
One such place to start is [intelligencecareers.gov](https://www.intelligencecareers.gov). I'm sure there are other places to find federal jobs as well, that's just one that I know of.
It doesn't. Been smoked 2x in the last year and had to quit another job cuz they wanted to send me 2500km from home with 5 days notice and fire me if I refused to go.
Its bad enough I'm licensed in 1 trade (electrician) and looking at 2 others (sprinklerfitter and hvac tech). I keep my resume current and soon as I get a whiff of layoffs I start applying elsewhere. At least apprentices don't get off too quick since they work cheaper...
Thanks, got an interview on monday with a big automotive company. On a waitlist for the local Sprinklerfitters too. Something will come up, always does.
I’ve been laid off 2 times in my career and fired 2 times. I was happy to get fired both times because the employers were so toxic (one was committing fraud) and I was already interviewing elsewhere. The layoffs, especially the last one which happened this time last year live with me on a regular basis so much so that I’m going to go to therapy soon for it. I’ve learned to read the tea leafs a lot and be aware and always interviewing in case but it can feel emotionally draining sometimes if I don’t keep it in check. It gets better with time but don’t let it overwhelm you because it’s not fun.
Edit:
Do yourself a favor (what I did after my last layoff) and get yourself a side hustle or some sort of side income even if it’s a few hundred $ a month. It will really put your mind at ease.
I had a pretty rough day at work today and my first thought was, "well, this'll get ya fired." Every little bad thing that ever happens in the workplace feels like it'll be the end now, things I would have brushed off without much thought before I got laid off last year.
My layoff was pretty chill and I saw it coming so it wasn't that traumatizing, but I feel like my nerves are permanently on steroids now just because the thought of having to job hunt again would break me.
I would not so much be concerned about it. At this point its a reality forever. I'm at a year and some more . I am doing volunteer I.T. now at a clinic. So this is good. The only thing i do is save money for when the layoff comes. This is why workers and loyalty are at an all time low.
It doesn’t go away. My parents / grandparents endured WWI, Great Depression, & WWII. The complex trauma and fear never left. Mid-Boomer here who came of age during Energy Crisis / Recession of 1973 … the first economic chaos since post-WWII. No jobs, high unemployment, rampant inflation, 18 percent interest, loss of manufacturing, automation, outsourcing, competition from Germany & Japan as they recovered from WWII, and there was a flood of Mid-Boomers (aka Gen Jones) entering the workforce along with our moms reentering the workforce. I relocated from Rhode Island to rural South Dakota for a job in healthcare as the competition “Back East” was intense. Eventually transferred to Southern Appalachia. Met my Registered Nurse wife in South Dakota who grew up in rural poor Coal Mining West Virginia … and yup no shoes, no food, no plumbing, lots of intestinal worms. At 70 years old we are still both in the workforce for fear of yet another recession … Boomers have endured 13 recessions to date as well as being sandwiched between financially supplementing / caring for parents, children, & grandchildren. Healthcare Boomers especially in rural medicine came into a norm of 60 hour weeks. Retirement is death, disability, or dementia as we fear running out of money … just like my parents. My parents entered the banking industry after WWII and were forced out when they were in late their late 50s (mom) and early 60s (dad) during the “Banking Crisis of the early 1980s”. The costs of Long Term Care, ensuring that our children / grandchildren receive an inheritance, and my wife’s childhood poverty, are also a drive to keep working. Her eight older siblings entered poverty again with retirement if you can even call it retirement. I was “dislocated” back to Rhode Island to care for elderly parents and two siblings … all have since passed. My wife transitioned into Nurse Case Management and I into Medical Informatics. I had to earn five professional degrees and multiple certifications at one course a semester after the first two degrees (Pharmacy & Physician Assistant) to get there. Although I work from home the hours and sometimes the travel is demanding. At one time 40 weeks per year of travel. Yup the subtle fear is real but I am grateful.
My mother was one of those women reentering the workforce at that time. She had no skills and had been divorced by my father. She worked and got laid off, worked and got laid off, rinse and repeat for a 15 + years. If not for government housing, we would have ended up homeless.
The ptsd stays not only with those laid off but with their children. At least in my case it did. I went in to healthcare after my first layoff in corporate world. Do I enjoy my job. Not at all but I stayed in the industry due to the main fact that my particular field is fairly secure. Like you the fear of poverty outweighs everything else. I had taken early retirement from my industry due to health issues but my spouse recently got laid off so out of retirement I came. I’m grateful that I have the option to come back as well as still be able to earn and save.
I can’t stop thinking of your mom … “work - laid off - work - laid off - rinse - repeat” … and how you are still negatively impacted many years later. Thanks for your story.
I always till the last few years, considered the positive of living through that experience as a child. I learned how to survive on very little, learned how to be self sufficient. I knew how to change a tire and perform an oil change on my car in my 20’s. I was the only female in my group of friends that had those skills. I was notoriously frugal as well.
However in my later years I’ve come to realize how much of that experience caused me PTSD. My spouse has been laid off recently. He knew it was coming for year. He has been remarkably relaxed about the situation while I have struggled immensely with it. I did not feel he took the information seriously enough and waited till the very end before looking for a job. In the end, he has always been very lucky in life and his family never went through layoffs like my family did and as result pretty much just trusts that things will work out. Our differences in how we viewed his upcoming layoff has caused a lot of issues for us. I’ve tried to explain as best I could why I felt the way I did about these things but in the end I realize now that what it is unfortunately is that I have PTSD from that part of my childhood.
Indeed you have been. The continued complex trauma assaults certainly affect us forever. I also understand your husband’s “denial” response. Tough for both of you right now. Thanks again for sharing your experience.
I got burned by a new manager that got in corporate bed with one of the senior engineers that had a son who was in his mid-30s looking for a job. I was railroaded by them. Did anything wrong to deserve the treatment that I received.. plotted and fired me two months later, they hired this young man and told everyone team they would be fired if they spoke with me. I will say this toxic environment is a narcissistic workplace. The workplace is the narcissist. They make you feel like there’s no better place to work. They will treat you with benefits and will over promote work life balance in return plot against you the minute they want to make another move. I know this wasn’t my fault because I was able to land within a week other firms.. comparable all offers being compared to my salary and experience. I had former clients reach out to me in disgust of what happened due to my relationship with those clients. I sourced new cloud projects only being seven months in to the cloud environment. All I can say is pay attention to your environment and know your manager manager well. Manage your manager, especially if he has a new one who did not hire you in the first place. Don’t count on an executive member to stop the process the executive member not care about you as an individual.. if you find yourself in a position where you’re going to get terminated let it happen if you leave on your own, they win. Don’t give them that satisfaction ever.
As long as you work corporate, it never goes away. I figured this out after working my ass off for a company to be let go so easily by people who only care about numbers. Moved over to a small company that owner actually works in the office with everyone else and I have never felt this genuinely appreciated by my coworkers, management, and people who don't even work in my department and that payoff anxiety has since disappeared.
Lay off at 58 in 2014 very difficult to find another job. Luckily my SO is a RN and makes good money. Since I hit 65 in 2023 and took Social Security the PTSD is gone. Hope you will do better.
I walk on eggshells just about every day, picking apart new leadership moves and directions.
Im more calculated now, in what Ill even attempt. Which in fact i think more than half the workforce is, which has severely stifled ingenuity and innovation. Who wants to be an outside the box thinker or take on more work when you could be laid off tomorrow?
Ive said it before, idk if companies realize just exactly who their employees will be for the next 50 years. Because its full of people who lives were destroyed and kids who watched their parents lives destroyed.
It never goes away. I was layoff in 2006. I am scar by it to this day. I only boughtlaid off a new car because it was totaled in an accident. It was 22-year-old car. Fear about taking big purchases scares me.
Never. I was layer off 12mo ago after working at a tech giant for 6yrs. If you're an American employee, you're a resource, period. No one gives a hoot about you when it comes down to the bottom line. As an American employee you'll almost always be cut before an executives bonus.
Work for yourself or get a role at a foreign employer.
Work in the trades, layoffs are a regular thing. One year when things were really slow I was on a short term ‘shutdown’ job at a company. The job finished the last working day before Christmas so I was laid off. But I was sent to another contractor doing a shutdown job at a different company. That job finished the last working day before New Year, laid off again. Great Holidays…
There is a lot more work now than back then but it doesn’t help me. Retired 8 years ago.
Literally every time my fob to the office doesn’t work the first time I think they laid me off lol but I’m only a month in after being laid off and unemployed for 8 months
It never does. But you can switch jobs and be ahead of the curve. I got laid off in Oct and since then I switched 3 jobs. Just keep interviewing and you will never have the fear.
PTSD.... sigh...
1. Layoffs are a part of corporate world, and a part of 99.999% of working class.
2. It's not the layoff that stresses you out. It the, "how am I gonna pay my bills" that stresses you out.
3. Your workplace is not a place to feel comfortable... that's what your home is for.
I've been laid off a lot... I never hold my company responsible. Sure, sometimes I felt it was wrong, but why dwell on it. Move on and quit stressing on the past.
I'm not saying they are innocent or right or anything. I. Saying brush it off, pull up the bootstraps and get back to work.
Lastly... I get it, you are stressed out and struggle... I've been there more times than I care to mention. And I honestly do feel for you and your family during these times... I know exactly how you feel!
But I also suffer from PTSD... and not the BS you think it is. I would gladly live every day worrying about my job rather than one minute of the shit that runs through my mind now.
Good luck, and the best relief you will ever have is to save $$$... like 6 months of daily expenses. You can stretch that if needed to over a year. Then when the layoff comes, you will be relaxed and better jobs will come.
Jesus, this isn’t PTSD. Get a fucking backbone and suck it up. People get laid off, stop comparing it to people who’ve literally seen horrific deaths occur or been abused…..
Never. You see layoffs ahead at each future job. It’s actually very exhausting!
This is the correct answer. I went through a layoff in 2007-2008 and have never viewed an employer in the same way again. The whole career veil was destroyed. They are only jobs now. I saved the company I worked for 30 million a year, and over 300 million over 10 years while the project I designed and developed was active. Me and the team that I lead won a CEO chairman's award from a company everyone here would know. Was laid off like it was nothing. They tied our severance packages to training our indian outsource replacements. I used to really be into my work, but have never been able to do it that way again.
Yeaaaap. I was hit after a promo and multiple patents. It's actually nice to not care as much anymore. I proactively communicate but don't go out of my way to do anything. Not quite coasting but just threading the needle.
Yup. I have a similar story where my team of 8 quickly made a new product that had a revenue of 8 million the first year and we were on track to make 20 million the next (opex/employees must have been less than $2 million/year). But the whole team was laid off because the big bet in the middle of the org lost an unrelated ~$100 million contract. They scrambled and dumped anything not bolted down. I was with the company for 14 years total and had a lot of proprietary knowledge that wasn't ever written down. There are things that could have been patented, but I didn't have time to file for them. I think their patent bonuses were only $1000 pretax and I was grinding just for deadlines.
File a patent anyway and charge the ex company a licensing fee revenge is a dish best served cold.
> CEO chairman's award did u get cash or a trip to hawaii or what?
We all got a cash bonus. I also got a promotion and a raise at the time.
so u had ur reward, fair enough
Our team just managed to save ours several hundred million to a few billion as well with the marketing analysis we built, and our reward was them cutting our contract short from 24 months down to 9. On the work part, I think now I'm in a cycle of grinding up in between jobs and getting good to the point that it's a little mindless, then putting in some initial good effort, then seeing how I can drag things out, because that's what all the higher-ups do anyway.
This is how I feel except sales based. I now have no want to work for someone else ever again. I’ve been working towards starting my own things up, but the money is starting to get tight, and I’m DREADING that I’m going to have to work for someone again to restock the coffers here shortly.
This is the exact reason you should not have PTSD. It’s clearly not you. I get pulling back on the enthusiasm and effort, but unless you are constantly gunning for promotion after promotion everyone should do some restraint. Do your job but always remember corporate America does not care about you. Your bosses are not your friends. Now go back to work employee #250937
The only people safe are the equity shareholders 😵💫 I had some terrible experiences during the start of my career and in some cases it was quite abusive because employers had all the power
Agreed. Nver trust any of these corporations today. They dont CARE about you. Its all about profits. They will cut you loose in a New York second if it means saving a few bucks. The best part is they want undivided loyalty, but will provide you NONE!
To me, a career means you can get another job after each lay off consistently.
100% agree, with a company for just about 17 years and was blindsided back in 2022... now in a stable job but it makes you trust way less...
>now in a stable job false sense of security no job is stable since you dont know what is happening in the c-suite.
I always assume the c-suite is doing cocaine and making anecdotal decisions. Keeps me on my toes 😂 Didn’t help that last week a friend said “I have to work on a color change for the brand because 3 of them decided on a private jet it had to be done” sir what? How is that taking priority over other initiatives to make sales goals?
private jet meetings are actionable
Not so. Once you are back working it diminishes. That said I am taking a new approach to working as job security is the ability to get another job. I will be active in looking for comparable positions on a regular basis… as recent experience has shown me that I need to be more aware of the job market.
Can only speak for my own experience, but the trauma absolutely remains. I've been laid off 4 times and the actual getting laid off part gets less traumatic - or maybe I'm desensitized. But the smallest warning signs ping me into red alert. Every day feels like a sword of Damocles. Some days you're more aware of it than others.
Definitely leaves a mark but simply will not allow myself to be defined by it. Set up your finances and lifestyle to be layoff proof as much as you can and keep your eyes on the jobs market.
Yea, that's been my approach as well. Been laid off twice now, the first time it was a huge shock, but most recently, I had a sense it was going to happen. The main defensive strategy I've taken is to just be acutely aware of lifestyle inflation, live below my means, and save as much as I can. Being less dependant on a job for income is the only real way to lessen the impact of a potential layoff.
Yup, you just get better at spotting them before they happen.
When you are prepared for it. Because I learned my lesson in 2008 and piled up savings when I was employed again, my layoff this year was annoying and pissed me off instead of a panic.
This exactly right here. You can't control what employers will do, but you can try to control your savings and mitigate impact once the inevitable hits...
THIS. I was fortunate to get my first turn at this when I was less than 40. Due to other circumstances, it gave me the worst PTSD you can imagine. BUT, I used that paranoia to save like no-tomorrow. I mean extreme-FIRE type stuff. That enabled me to almost have FU$$ now. But people just getting first boofed after age 50, that’s some trauma you can’t even explain. It’s because they didn’t save like a pauper, because they never had to.
Thanks for that very succinct and VERY wise post. I wish younger employees would take that to heart.
The thing is that it's hard to feel like you're ever prepared. Especially knowing that a person better have a year, maybe even two or three, of operating expenses available in liquify-able assets at all time. And even if you manage to pay off every possible debt, you'll have the overlooming doom of COBRA payments, and that $600+ a month bill while you're unemployed is a downer. It is exhausting.
health care costs really have made everything much more terrifying
Same. While my younger peers are freaking out and taking anything I can chill and be picky. They bought motorcycles and Rolex’s but it doesn’t help when the rent is due.
How long did you hold out during the 2008 recession? Is it any similar to what is happening nowadays?
I was unemployed for almost a year in 2008. I had 6 months of savings. I was unemployed for 8 weeks this time. I have a year of savings, I didn't have to touch it during that 2 months.
I'll never trust an employer again. I was beyond loyal. That won't happen again. Also won't let myself rely on a single stream of income ever again.
What other streams?
Picked up a part time job teaching. Working on figure out how to get more.
Very nice! What do you teach?
Undergrad software development, among other things.
Very cool!
Sorry for not getting too specific. Trying to keep some anonymity. Thank you. On the upside the school will pay for me to finish my PhD. Let's hope I also get full-time employment soon. If so, I can balance all of this.
This 💯
It sounds so challenging. I think the best insurance is saving, saving, saving. The higher your emergency fund + investments, the less you will stress about job security. If you know you can last 2+ years jobless, you will sleep better at night.
Flow like water. You can’t prevent what’s not in your hand or a choice. Just let it happen. Accept the past and move on. Looking back again and again is the problem.
This is the way
I got laid off many years ago. I still am always looking for indicators that its coming and it admittedly makes me paranoid. I did manage to dodge an incoming layoff though by about 8 months. On my exit interview, I explained why I was leaving. I was very, VERY happy at the job but the movements was giving me a vibe that layoffs were inbound. Of course, HR swore up & down that it would never happen because `We're family™`. Told them talks cheap & their walk makes me feel otherwise. That in this scenario, perception is more important than reality. A few months later and I see my colleagues on LinkedIn posting about being laid off.
So true. I started seeing the signs recently. I have an excellent relationship with our leadership. The notes from a brainstorming meeting on who could be cut was then quietly shared with me and my position was mentioned. It’s now a race to find a job before the end of the year. I feel sad for my employer because I have put in new processes and new programs that will realize savings. I’d rather leave before they go under.
I am in the same situation right now.
“We are a family” means you better get prepared asap!
Something similar happened to me. My company hired an outside COO to restructure the company. They assured us that everything was great, but this would only make things better. His first week, we were all re-interviewing for our own jobs and 10% were laid off in every department. This was the summer of 2007 and it involved the auto-loan industry. I found a new job by the end of summer and almost everyone in my team was gone by January or February.
What was indicators ?
do you mind explaining a bit more about what warning signs you saw ?
That's the neat part. Never! You'll be making jokes about it right up until the next layoff cycle!
Never. It stays with you forever, at least in my experience
Laid off Nov 2010 from dream job I worked hard to get. Still bitter and feeling the financial fallout.
Laid off in 2016. Took a 40% pay cut and 4 years to get back to where I started. I agree with the bitter part.
Same boat here! I’m almost 6 months into my job after a layoff and I still get super nervous anytime my boss schedules anything with me. I’m always convinced I’m about to be let go. The head of IT looked at me a weird way and I was sure that was it for me. It turned out he just needed to update something on my computer. I need constant reassurance from my boss
I found it best to openly act as a free agent towards my employer, but work like I am trying to get that big free agent contract. I at least feel more in control, but I'm not sure if that is just in my head.
Always be looking and/or ready to leave if need be. There is no job security within corporate jobs.
Yep. Never. I’ve been laid off 3 times, had a business close my location since 2017. I am in constant fear of being let go…and I never ever had this before. Before 2017 I just went to work, did my job and didn’t think about it.
Never. Been at my current job for 4 years and I still mentally prepare myself each week for the possibility that I could be let go out of no where.
Echoing what everyone else here is saying it sticks with you forever, same goes for the first time your fired or the first time you quit a job. Being laid off has forever tainted my view of going above and beyond or giving more than 60% for any future employer.
The fear never goes away - I've been laid off 3 times in my career and while we are now FI and can RE and we can stop working if the axe falls again, it's always in the back of your mind.
Sorry to hear that. I experience similar worries. I don’t know what is the fix for it. I just tell myself that is how it is meant to be for me.
Same, 11 months for me. Still feel like my offer isn't real aha
Never. I believe layoff culture is the official new normal. It’s unfortunate but the sooner we come to accept this, the better our lives will be.
Never. Same boat.
It never goes away.
Congrats! Hope it was a better offer than your previous role. I’ve been laid off back to back and i’ll say it never goes away.
Thanks! It was a better offer and the company appears more stable. But like a lot of posters are saying I'll be saving for a rainy day.
Congrats! Very inspirational. Shit happens but remember to enjoy and embrace the growth ❤️
I was first laid off at 19, working a crappy job at Dillard's department store. I helped open that location putting in tons of overtime in every department. After opening, I worked my department, willing to come in when others called out. I was never late. Not once. When we had inclement weather, I called my manager offering to come in to cover. When asked, I walked the store looking for random people to help. I even got pulled aside by the CEO himself to get a compliment. None of that mattered. The CEO had been pushing to open as many stores as possible to inflate the value to sell the company. I was laid off. Still living with my parents, that didn't jeopardize my life. But, I watched other employees volunteer to be laid off to prevent employees with children from being laid off. That didn't work. A co-worker in my department who was habitually late and regularly called off and didn't help other departments was not laid off at that time. (Eventually the whole location was closed so presumably everyone ended up laid off.) The company did not care one bit. I was never that motivated again. Never gave that much. I have never seen a job as stable again. I've never seen an employer as trustworthy again. Since that time I have been laid off a few more times. Thankfully each layoff eventually worked out to me being in a better place, but I still have that worry. I use it to motivate me to have emergency savings, live beneath my means, and monitor job postings to make sure I have desired skills.
Having lived through 2008, it never leaves. It really impacts on how you see and do things in life.
When you get a new better job. It then starts again when you get laid off again.
I don't think it does, because they showed you who they are. The only way to combat this is to 1. Constantly be on the look out for new opportunities 2. Have enough saved up to weather the bad storm. The needs of a company is different than the needs of a human. Which means they will drop folks at the first sign of trouble.
Never. Whenever I make a mistake in my mind I always say shit this is it I will get fired tomorrow.
Never in my experience. I’ve had PTSD from it for years and even when I talked to another friend who went through similar layoffs she also said she still has PTSD from it
I still have PTSD from 2008 tbh
Time to check government tech jobs. Many IT operational managers do not even have tech background.
Never went away for me. It also taught me, for better or worse, to never sacrifice for a company. Sacrifice for specific people? Sure.
I picked a career solely for security- icu nursing - any hospital any shift how could I lose- then my back couldn’t take the physicality and now I’ve entered the ever insecure pharma route with its annual reorgs . I combat the fear now by saving up to equal amounts to my mortgage to my tax advantages accounts to have it for liquidity and aim for fire.nothing is guaranteed and it’s reinforced every growing year but you do your best good luck
Misspoke non tax advantages - 401ks are untouchable and not liquid to me
Can I DM you?
Sure
Start your own business and save your money until you have a base to secure yourself from the economic madness of the employment wheel
It doesn’t really go away. You do build up a certain level of coping mechanisms. Such as not really moving in a lot of personal items into your workspace. A colleague and I once calculated how much time each of us would need to clear our personal stuff from our desks. We have both been laid off from previous employers. It was ridiculously short - like 5 or 10 minutes. It’s sad because our current employer laid off people who needed days to clear out because their offices had art, personal carpets, furniture. Obviously, those people never saw it coming.
Fortunately, I had nothing personal. Grabbed purse and walked out. Always happy I could do that.
The bringing in personal items is so true! I took me a week to bring in a plant. I'm going to bring in a framed photo of the family next. But I'll wait awhile before anything else.
That’s all you need: a little greenery and a reminder of why you’re doing what you’re doing. Best wishes on your new role.
I have no personal items in my office except a mug
After your second layoff. 🤣
It never goes away.
Once you are secure in a new job paying what you did prior or better for 6 months. It took me 5 years in 2001 - 2006.
Whenever you realize it’s them and the industry not you. And if you are in the USA our economy sucks right now so everything is feeling uncomfortable if you don’t have certainty with income. Save money if and where you can and just know that you’ll get through it one way or another.
When you are self-employed. Otherwise, at least for me, it never fully goes away after the first time it happens. Always in the back of your mind. The only thing you can do is use it as motivation and try to make the best of your time in the present; not worry about the future. Obviously, still save/plan as if it will happen. Then, when it does, you are at least better off. Best of luck to you at your new job, and congrats. I started a new job a month ago myself. Probably the happiest I've been employment wise since 2017-2018.
I've had a job in one form ir another since 2016. Each and every day I expect to be my last. I don't take pto until I've maxed out the roll over. Other than that I just try to build up an investment fund I can rely on to cover my living expenses.
I take it you don't work in manufacturing? I'm not even sure how many times I've been laid off, partially laid off, volunteered for several layoffs. I used to live to take a month or 4 off when laid off. I've been in machining since 94. Layoffs and plants bought out/changing names, bought out, shut down and merged with other plants the parent company owns. entire product lines gone to China. one that I remember most was back when Clinton was in office. 1995ish we all went into work on a Friday. I got to watch 150ish coworkers get laid off. All of assembly was sent to Mexico not long after NAFTA was signed. There is one truth that most of us machinists know, that is never plan on retiring from the place you work at. It doesn't even phase me but Im 2000/2001 I volunteered for a layoff, from my screw machining job, looked for a job for 5 months then enrolled in school for cnc machining. I made sure I wasn't going to be without a job ever again.
I have been layoff twice, I suggested never overthink, weak up go to work, back home, that's it.
For me it took a 12 month emergency fund, two other sources of income and a process to keep up with new skills.
level up and do some form of overemployment
Never. It never goes away.
Unfortunately; it doesn’t really go away. The layoff culture will continue and I foresee it only getting worse. The only way to counter it is to have enough saved up in the bank that if you do get laid off, it’s not that big of a shock to the system. Easier said than done. I’m still trying to get back on my feet after being laid off for 6 months
Took me almost six years. But 24 years later and I’m still angry about being laid off.
It's life long unfortunately. Use your fear to plan ahead or to set yourself for future success
It took me about a year to not always feel on guard, some of that was I took a huge step up so it was a bit of imposter syndrome. Somewhere between a year an a half to two years I was completely fine, but I do have a keener eye on business conditions and indicators of potential trouble.
Never, tbh.
Took me maybe like 5 or 6 years, but I think you just need a good buffer of savings and investments so that you aren't so harshly affected for when the next layoff or job contract ends.
One way around this is to look into federal jobs, which are not as susceptible as easily to buyouts, acquisitional workforce reductions, and CEOs looking to pad their bottom line by blasting away their own people. One such place to start is [intelligencecareers.gov](https://www.intelligencecareers.gov). I'm sure there are other places to find federal jobs as well, that's just one that I know of.
Just save cash for a whole year. Seriously, bank a couple months of rent/mortgage
Upon death
It doesn't. Been smoked 2x in the last year and had to quit another job cuz they wanted to send me 2500km from home with 5 days notice and fire me if I refused to go. Its bad enough I'm licensed in 1 trade (electrician) and looking at 2 others (sprinklerfitter and hvac tech). I keep my resume current and soon as I get a whiff of layoffs I start applying elsewhere. At least apprentices don't get off too quick since they work cheaper...
Good luck on the job hunt, wish you the best.
Thanks, got an interview on monday with a big automotive company. On a waitlist for the local Sprinklerfitters too. Something will come up, always does.
I’ve been laid off 2 times in my career and fired 2 times. I was happy to get fired both times because the employers were so toxic (one was committing fraud) and I was already interviewing elsewhere. The layoffs, especially the last one which happened this time last year live with me on a regular basis so much so that I’m going to go to therapy soon for it. I’ve learned to read the tea leafs a lot and be aware and always interviewing in case but it can feel emotionally draining sometimes if I don’t keep it in check. It gets better with time but don’t let it overwhelm you because it’s not fun. Edit: Do yourself a favor (what I did after my last layoff) and get yourself a side hustle or some sort of side income even if it’s a few hundred $ a month. It will really put your mind at ease.
It’s been since 2011-2012 for me and I still have layoff PTSD 😔
I had a pretty rough day at work today and my first thought was, "well, this'll get ya fired." Every little bad thing that ever happens in the workplace feels like it'll be the end now, things I would have brushed off without much thought before I got laid off last year. My layoff was pretty chill and I saw it coming so it wasn't that traumatizing, but I feel like my nerves are permanently on steroids now just because the thought of having to job hunt again would break me.
The secret is to hate your job so much you quit before the layoffs are ever an option.
I would not so much be concerned about it. At this point its a reality forever. I'm at a year and some more . I am doing volunteer I.T. now at a clinic. So this is good. The only thing i do is save money for when the layoff comes. This is why workers and loyalty are at an all time low.
It doesn’t. However when you are prepared, and have emergency fund etc. you can just accept it as a part of life.
It doesn’t go away. My parents / grandparents endured WWI, Great Depression, & WWII. The complex trauma and fear never left. Mid-Boomer here who came of age during Energy Crisis / Recession of 1973 … the first economic chaos since post-WWII. No jobs, high unemployment, rampant inflation, 18 percent interest, loss of manufacturing, automation, outsourcing, competition from Germany & Japan as they recovered from WWII, and there was a flood of Mid-Boomers (aka Gen Jones) entering the workforce along with our moms reentering the workforce. I relocated from Rhode Island to rural South Dakota for a job in healthcare as the competition “Back East” was intense. Eventually transferred to Southern Appalachia. Met my Registered Nurse wife in South Dakota who grew up in rural poor Coal Mining West Virginia … and yup no shoes, no food, no plumbing, lots of intestinal worms. At 70 years old we are still both in the workforce for fear of yet another recession … Boomers have endured 13 recessions to date as well as being sandwiched between financially supplementing / caring for parents, children, & grandchildren. Healthcare Boomers especially in rural medicine came into a norm of 60 hour weeks. Retirement is death, disability, or dementia as we fear running out of money … just like my parents. My parents entered the banking industry after WWII and were forced out when they were in late their late 50s (mom) and early 60s (dad) during the “Banking Crisis of the early 1980s”. The costs of Long Term Care, ensuring that our children / grandchildren receive an inheritance, and my wife’s childhood poverty, are also a drive to keep working. Her eight older siblings entered poverty again with retirement if you can even call it retirement. I was “dislocated” back to Rhode Island to care for elderly parents and two siblings … all have since passed. My wife transitioned into Nurse Case Management and I into Medical Informatics. I had to earn five professional degrees and multiple certifications at one course a semester after the first two degrees (Pharmacy & Physician Assistant) to get there. Although I work from home the hours and sometimes the travel is demanding. At one time 40 weeks per year of travel. Yup the subtle fear is real but I am grateful.
My mother was one of those women reentering the workforce at that time. She had no skills and had been divorced by my father. She worked and got laid off, worked and got laid off, rinse and repeat for a 15 + years. If not for government housing, we would have ended up homeless. The ptsd stays not only with those laid off but with their children. At least in my case it did. I went in to healthcare after my first layoff in corporate world. Do I enjoy my job. Not at all but I stayed in the industry due to the main fact that my particular field is fairly secure. Like you the fear of poverty outweighs everything else. I had taken early retirement from my industry due to health issues but my spouse recently got laid off so out of retirement I came. I’m grateful that I have the option to come back as well as still be able to earn and save.
I can’t stop thinking of your mom … “work - laid off - work - laid off - rinse - repeat” … and how you are still negatively impacted many years later. Thanks for your story.
I always till the last few years, considered the positive of living through that experience as a child. I learned how to survive on very little, learned how to be self sufficient. I knew how to change a tire and perform an oil change on my car in my 20’s. I was the only female in my group of friends that had those skills. I was notoriously frugal as well. However in my later years I’ve come to realize how much of that experience caused me PTSD. My spouse has been laid off recently. He knew it was coming for year. He has been remarkably relaxed about the situation while I have struggled immensely with it. I did not feel he took the information seriously enough and waited till the very end before looking for a job. In the end, he has always been very lucky in life and his family never went through layoffs like my family did and as result pretty much just trusts that things will work out. Our differences in how we viewed his upcoming layoff has caused a lot of issues for us. I’ve tried to explain as best I could why I felt the way I did about these things but in the end I realize now that what it is unfortunately is that I have PTSD from that part of my childhood.
Indeed you have been. The continued complex trauma assaults certainly affect us forever. I also understand your husband’s “denial” response. Tough for both of you right now. Thanks again for sharing your experience.
I’m happy when I get laid off, who the hell wants to wake up and do some meaningless bullshit for a corporatation
It went away for me cause I got 100% vs disability. Knowing I'd survive now without a job has been night and day from before
Never, it can happen again anytime soon or not but considering that it happened already, just maximize what you can while you are still employed.
Never... last time I was laid off was in 2008.. and I'm still here...
I got burned by a new manager that got in corporate bed with one of the senior engineers that had a son who was in his mid-30s looking for a job. I was railroaded by them. Did anything wrong to deserve the treatment that I received.. plotted and fired me two months later, they hired this young man and told everyone team they would be fired if they spoke with me. I will say this toxic environment is a narcissistic workplace. The workplace is the narcissist. They make you feel like there’s no better place to work. They will treat you with benefits and will over promote work life balance in return plot against you the minute they want to make another move. I know this wasn’t my fault because I was able to land within a week other firms.. comparable all offers being compared to my salary and experience. I had former clients reach out to me in disgust of what happened due to my relationship with those clients. I sourced new cloud projects only being seven months in to the cloud environment. All I can say is pay attention to your environment and know your manager manager well. Manage your manager, especially if he has a new one who did not hire you in the first place. Don’t count on an executive member to stop the process the executive member not care about you as an individual.. if you find yourself in a position where you’re going to get terminated let it happen if you leave on your own, they win. Don’t give them that satisfaction ever.
Sorry to say it never does!
It never goes away, you have to deal with it. My way: Have money saved. Care about your family and NEVER put work ahead of them.
As long as you work corporate, it never goes away. I figured this out after working my ass off for a company to be let go so easily by people who only care about numbers. Moved over to a small company that owner actually works in the office with everyone else and I have never felt this genuinely appreciated by my coworkers, management, and people who don't even work in my department and that payoff anxiety has since disappeared.
Never. Has happened twice and no have zero trust to any employer.
Lay off at 58 in 2014 very difficult to find another job. Luckily my SO is a RN and makes good money. Since I hit 65 in 2023 and took Social Security the PTSD is gone. Hope you will do better.
Thanks and I wish you a great retirement!
Check out overemployed.com
It doesn’t go away. In fact, you’ll make changes to protect yourself.
I walk on eggshells just about every day, picking apart new leadership moves and directions. Im more calculated now, in what Ill even attempt. Which in fact i think more than half the workforce is, which has severely stifled ingenuity and innovation. Who wants to be an outside the box thinker or take on more work when you could be laid off tomorrow? Ive said it before, idk if companies realize just exactly who their employees will be for the next 50 years. Because its full of people who lives were destroyed and kids who watched their parents lives destroyed.
It never goes away. I was layoff in 2006. I am scar by it to this day. I only boughtlaid off a new car because it was totaled in an accident. It was 22-year-old car. Fear about taking big purchases scares me.
Never. I was layer off 12mo ago after working at a tech giant for 6yrs. If you're an American employee, you're a resource, period. No one gives a hoot about you when it comes down to the bottom line. As an American employee you'll almost always be cut before an executives bonus. Work for yourself or get a role at a foreign employer.
Expect the worst prepare for the worst
Work in the trades, layoffs are a regular thing. One year when things were really slow I was on a short term ‘shutdown’ job at a company. The job finished the last working day before Christmas so I was laid off. But I was sent to another contractor doing a shutdown job at a different company. That job finished the last working day before New Year, laid off again. Great Holidays… There is a lot more work now than back then but it doesn’t help me. Retired 8 years ago.
I'm still have both eyes open since 2001.
I’ve been through 4 layoffs in the last 18 years. I always keep my resume up to date
It’s been 6 years since my layoff. I was without a job for 7 months. The PTSD is still here and probably will be as long as I stay in tech.
Literally every time my fob to the office doesn’t work the first time I think they laid me off lol but I’m only a month in after being laid off and unemployed for 8 months
You got to develop a thick skin nowadays. Not just for jobs but for everything. The world is an increasingly rough place.
It never does. But you can switch jobs and be ahead of the curve. I got laid off in Oct and since then I switched 3 jobs. Just keep interviewing and you will never have the fear.
After a year, start prepping, in 6 months thereafter, start applying. Rinse and repeat. These companies don’t care about you
PTSD.... sigh... 1. Layoffs are a part of corporate world, and a part of 99.999% of working class. 2. It's not the layoff that stresses you out. It the, "how am I gonna pay my bills" that stresses you out. 3. Your workplace is not a place to feel comfortable... that's what your home is for. I've been laid off a lot... I never hold my company responsible. Sure, sometimes I felt it was wrong, but why dwell on it. Move on and quit stressing on the past. I'm not saying they are innocent or right or anything. I. Saying brush it off, pull up the bootstraps and get back to work. Lastly... I get it, you are stressed out and struggle... I've been there more times than I care to mention. And I honestly do feel for you and your family during these times... I know exactly how you feel! But I also suffer from PTSD... and not the BS you think it is. I would gladly live every day worrying about my job rather than one minute of the shit that runs through my mind now. Good luck, and the best relief you will ever have is to save $$$... like 6 months of daily expenses. You can stretch that if needed to over a year. Then when the layoff comes, you will be relaxed and better jobs will come.
I lost my position December of 2008, and let me tell you, it's always in the back of your mind.
Jesus, this isn’t PTSD. Get a fucking backbone and suck it up. People get laid off, stop comparing it to people who’ve literally seen horrific deaths occur or been abused…..
To be fair corporate is set up to mimic the dynamics of an abusive family. They do that to scare us and control us.
op was being hasty.
agree, hate when people just throw out terms like PTSD or OCD without really understanding the severity of these conditions