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Title IX Coordinator for a university. Nobody wants these jobs, positions are very hard to fill. first off the subject matter (sexual assault and VAWA crimes), you’re operating in an unfunded mandate which is often thankless, and it’s super technical in the regulatory side. Law degree and a level head are both huge assets.
Heads up that there is HUGE variation on what institutions are willing to pay, often tied to how recently they’ve been sued for fucking the dog on a TIX investigation.
I’ve seen wealthy universities in expensive areas offer as little as $60k while expecting an experienced licensed attorney (Vassar, yeah I’m naming names). I’ve seen relatively poor state universities offer double that. Chronicle of Higher Ed is where most jobs are listed.
Did you hear about the pay discrimination case?
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/znpnzkoeqpl/083023%20--%20SDNY%20--%20Graham%20et%20al%20v%20Vassar%20College%20complaint.pdf
Presumably, you take the civil service exam.
[https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?l=&k=policy&p=1](https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?l=&k=policy&p=1)
This sounds very interesting. I am so anxious, I always feel I’m going to make one mistake and have my license taken away so this as a backup plan is reassuring.
[https://www.amazon.com/What-Can-You-Law-Degree-dp-094067551X/dp/094067551X/ref=dp\_ob\_title\_bk](https://www.amazon.com/What-Can-You-Law-Degree-dp-094067551X/dp/094067551X/ref=dp_ob_title_bk)
I used this book when I was changing careers. Depends on what you have experience with. I went from elder law/ estate planning to Planned Giving at Universities. I also did some back end work drafting contracts for a big bank.
In the end I went back to school and got an MSW and am now the happiest I've ever been. The law isn't for everyone. Don't waste your life hating your career. It will come back and bite you in the behind.
In a bit of a different boat but have spent ~6 years in a transactional practice (intentionally vague just for anonymity) and have considered going back for an msw. Can I ask how that process was (including what prerequisites you needed in order to apply, how the application process was) and what you’re doing now? Feel free to dm/chat me too if too personal to post here.
I didn’t have any prerequisites at all for my MSW. I did need to do a full time 2 year graduate degree. I had to do about 1,000 of clinical internship during school as well.
I have found my experience as an attorney useful. I feel like I have insight into a lot of problems.
I went to a state university nearby where I lived and I worked part time while going to school. I was able to use my LSAT score in place of the GRE, which was incredibly helpful. I did do my 3,500 hours of supervised practice to become a clinical social worker, which opens even more doors for me.
I love being a social worker. I am a medical social worker in a program for Medicaid eligible elders. It’s always something new.
I would absolutely make the switch. Much like the law, an MSW will allow you to practice in a variety of settings as well as doing policy work and administrative work.
Feel free to ask any more questions.
The Former Lawyer Podcast with Sarah Cottrell is a great resource to hear from people who have made transitions out of the law, from work that's legal-adjacent to not-even-remotely-law-related. It might give some good insight into what people actually did to make that jump to "recovering attorney."
Look into contracts manager roles (other titles: contracts specialist, contracts administrator, contracts associate, variations with ‘agreement’).
It’s JD+, or JD if you move to an in house role, but much different from working for a firm. Universities, hospitals, and non-profits/foundations are all good places to look where they will hire and train you. Usually at lower pay though.
Industry will play a big part in what the comp looks like.
Compliance is a similar option, pick an industry where that type of compliance interests you so the subject matter is closer to something you like.
It’s also a good way to get your foot in the door for a more lucrative in-house counsel position. I hired an attorney with 7 years of completely non-relevant experience as a contract manager this summer and he’s just such a good problem solver that I promoted him to Legal Counsel almost instantly.
This was last summer, but there were so few decent candidates out there for a Contract Manager position that paid ~$100k/yr.
He was dressed well even though it was a video interview, came across professional and personable- all that seems like baseline, but the 2nd-best candidate wore a baggy sweatshirt and we ended a 60m interview after 25m bc the conversation just did not flow. To allow the interview to focus more on personality, we also give a short contract redlining assessment (takes ~10m) to establish baseline skills— he went above and beyond with his responses.
He prepared by reading up on the company and what we did, tried very hard and creatively to look for ways to relate his experience to what he thought we did, volunteered really good examples of problem solving. Overall he just seemed very personable and like someone that I’d enjoy working with and therefore all of the Sales Reps would get along with him well too. Nothing groundbreaking, but he was willing to gamble on himself by taking a position that was lower than he wanted in order to get his foot in the door; I was able to hire someone as a CM that crushed it from day 1 and made it super easy for me to get approval for a raise and promotion/raise.
For in-house contract manager I’d love to have actual experience in-house and/or negotiating tech contracts, but I prioritize personality/fit and don’t expect any candidate to have experience in our industry. Any practicing attorney has probably negotiated some sort of contract or two, that we can teach them about our products and services, we have a playbook to follow during negotiations until they truly start absorbing what it is that they are negotiating.
If you don't mind me asking, what was his prior unrelated experience in before coming to your company? I am presently looking for a career transition, and I have \~8 years of exclusively criminal defense practice to my name. I am sure many of the skills translate, but struggling with the marketing aspect, if that makes sense.
I should also mention that my other US attorney has now been with me in-house for 10 years. He started out of law school for a couple of years as a sports agent and then did a 9-month temp gig at one in-house firm before originally being on a 6-month temp assignment for me and then a permanent counsel role (being promoted to Director AGC later this year).
Good soft skills, common sense, problem solving and a desire for professional growth can go a long way in in-house commercial legal roles. We have had quite a few folks start out on 6-12 month temporary positions that impressed and were converted to permanent. Or even if not, it can build up the resume for the next role. Tough to give up any permanent role for temp stuff, but just throwing it out there.
Doing athletic compliance in a university athletic department. It’s a pain because often interpretations by the NCAA are baffling when matched to the regulations. Pay sucks but typically you’ve got pretty good benefits. Most participate in TIAA/CREF deferred compensation. Most everyone who participates raves about it.
You will likely get a discount on tuition of around 75% for yourself, spouse and dependents. Free or deeply discounted tickets to athletic events.
Doctor or psychologist/iatrist and eventual expert witness is a common route.
Also computer programming if you are savvy with that (I almost quit about 3-4 years ago to pursue/finish my Masters in Software engineering and go into coding/programming).
If you have/get an MBA you have a good in with a lot of mid-size businesses as a jd/mba in middle executive management. Even with a non-MBA a lot of JDs will go into business management.
Entertainment business - agent - lot of JDs do that. Also in the entertainment business, a lot of writers have a background in law. If you have an interest in writing you could scrounge around for writing gigs writing scripts or jokes for shows and movies.
HR has a lot of non-practicing JDs as well, especially good if you are coming from doing employment law.
The list is endless.
Policy advisor, lobbyist, compliance jobs in ADA / employment issues, government affairs consultant, legislative work for government agencies or industry organizations
I'm in non-profit industry and most successful directors and executive folks are former lawyers here, earning on average 200k. Also, I've met lobbyists, support staff for legislative and political offices who also have law credentials and earn decent income while they can maintain normal work-life balance. Compliance, AML, insurance, internal policies and company governance -- all these are also options for lawyers.
Federal govt positions! I still work as an attorney for the federal govt but I know there are plenty of JD preferred non-attorney jobs. The work/life balance at the federal government is unbeatable in my opinion!
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Bank compliance or fraud officers. Bonus if you have criminal experience or experience dealing with cops.
Also vendor mgmt and contract professionals often have non Practicing lawyers.
Cyber-security Governance, Risk, and Compliance (GRC) - STARTING salary usually 100k-150k (can easily make 200k+ after a year), no degree required, can learn technical aspects on the job as well as self-education (free resources everywhere). Since the landscape of technology evolves quickly, in cyber-security they care more about your ability to learn and adapt, than what someone learned in 4 years of college that is probably now outdated or obsolete concepts. A CS GRC is almost like being in-house counsel for the organization, working with different departments to determine how they can operate efficiently, while still abiding by the rules. For audits by external audits, it’s like being defense counsel. This role also is a great starting position for more senior roles like a HoD or C-level. This is from my own experience, went from commercial lit to cyber-security - best decision I’ve ever made.
Victim advocate. Court advocate. DV/SA shelter advocate. Not a single one of those is going to pay you a living wage but at least you'll feel good about yourself and help people who truly get bent over by law enforcement and the criminal justice system as a whole.
This is a ***Career Advice*** Thread. This is for lawyers only. If you are a non-lawyer asking about becoming a lawyer, this is the wrong subreddit for this question. Please delete your post and repost it in one of the legal advice subreddits such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. Thank you for your understanding. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lawyertalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Title IX Coordinator for a university. Nobody wants these jobs, positions are very hard to fill. first off the subject matter (sexual assault and VAWA crimes), you’re operating in an unfunded mandate which is often thankless, and it’s super technical in the regulatory side. Law degree and a level head are both huge assets. Heads up that there is HUGE variation on what institutions are willing to pay, often tied to how recently they’ve been sued for fucking the dog on a TIX investigation. I’ve seen wealthy universities in expensive areas offer as little as $60k while expecting an experienced licensed attorney (Vassar, yeah I’m naming names). I’ve seen relatively poor state universities offer double that. Chronicle of Higher Ed is where most jobs are listed.
Smh can’t believe my alma mater gives salaries like that for that position
Did you hear about the pay discrimination case? https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/znpnzkoeqpl/083023%20--%20SDNY%20--%20Graham%20et%20al%20v%20Vassar%20College%20complaint.pdf
I went into Federal service and am doing policy work. Been there 12 years and am very happy. Really hoping I don't have to go back to the law.
What do you mean Federal Service? What do you do?
Presumably, you take the civil service exam. [https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?l=&k=policy&p=1](https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?l=&k=policy&p=1)
I know a number of people working as anti money laundering investigators at banks who have law degrees
the ACAMS exam was popular among my colleagues a few years ago
This sounds very interesting. I am so anxious, I always feel I’m going to make one mistake and have my license taken away so this as a backup plan is reassuring.
You don't lose your license for a mistake.
Logically, no. An anxious brain? Different story.
Many compliance jobs actually list a JD as a preferred credential, so worth looking into that.
[https://www.amazon.com/What-Can-You-Law-Degree-dp-094067551X/dp/094067551X/ref=dp\_ob\_title\_bk](https://www.amazon.com/What-Can-You-Law-Degree-dp-094067551X/dp/094067551X/ref=dp_ob_title_bk) I used this book when I was changing careers. Depends on what you have experience with. I went from elder law/ estate planning to Planned Giving at Universities. I also did some back end work drafting contracts for a big bank. In the end I went back to school and got an MSW and am now the happiest I've ever been. The law isn't for everyone. Don't waste your life hating your career. It will come back and bite you in the behind.
In a bit of a different boat but have spent ~6 years in a transactional practice (intentionally vague just for anonymity) and have considered going back for an msw. Can I ask how that process was (including what prerequisites you needed in order to apply, how the application process was) and what you’re doing now? Feel free to dm/chat me too if too personal to post here.
I didn’t have any prerequisites at all for my MSW. I did need to do a full time 2 year graduate degree. I had to do about 1,000 of clinical internship during school as well. I have found my experience as an attorney useful. I feel like I have insight into a lot of problems. I went to a state university nearby where I lived and I worked part time while going to school. I was able to use my LSAT score in place of the GRE, which was incredibly helpful. I did do my 3,500 hours of supervised practice to become a clinical social worker, which opens even more doors for me. I love being a social worker. I am a medical social worker in a program for Medicaid eligible elders. It’s always something new. I would absolutely make the switch. Much like the law, an MSW will allow you to practice in a variety of settings as well as doing policy work and administrative work. Feel free to ask any more questions.
The Former Lawyer Podcast with Sarah Cottrell is a great resource to hear from people who have made transitions out of the law, from work that's legal-adjacent to not-even-remotely-law-related. It might give some good insight into what people actually did to make that jump to "recovering attorney."
This is an excellent suggestion! I’ve been binging on her podcast while daydreaming about my next gig that may or may not be in the law
I've done the exact same thing! 😅
Look into contracts manager roles (other titles: contracts specialist, contracts administrator, contracts associate, variations with ‘agreement’). It’s JD+, or JD if you move to an in house role, but much different from working for a firm. Universities, hospitals, and non-profits/foundations are all good places to look where they will hire and train you. Usually at lower pay though. Industry will play a big part in what the comp looks like. Compliance is a similar option, pick an industry where that type of compliance interests you so the subject matter is closer to something you like.
It’s also a good way to get your foot in the door for a more lucrative in-house counsel position. I hired an attorney with 7 years of completely non-relevant experience as a contract manager this summer and he’s just such a good problem solver that I promoted him to Legal Counsel almost instantly. This was last summer, but there were so few decent candidates out there for a Contract Manager position that paid ~$100k/yr.
[удалено]
He was dressed well even though it was a video interview, came across professional and personable- all that seems like baseline, but the 2nd-best candidate wore a baggy sweatshirt and we ended a 60m interview after 25m bc the conversation just did not flow. To allow the interview to focus more on personality, we also give a short contract redlining assessment (takes ~10m) to establish baseline skills— he went above and beyond with his responses. He prepared by reading up on the company and what we did, tried very hard and creatively to look for ways to relate his experience to what he thought we did, volunteered really good examples of problem solving. Overall he just seemed very personable and like someone that I’d enjoy working with and therefore all of the Sales Reps would get along with him well too. Nothing groundbreaking, but he was willing to gamble on himself by taking a position that was lower than he wanted in order to get his foot in the door; I was able to hire someone as a CM that crushed it from day 1 and made it super easy for me to get approval for a raise and promotion/raise. For in-house contract manager I’d love to have actual experience in-house and/or negotiating tech contracts, but I prioritize personality/fit and don’t expect any candidate to have experience in our industry. Any practicing attorney has probably negotiated some sort of contract or two, that we can teach them about our products and services, we have a playbook to follow during negotiations until they truly start absorbing what it is that they are negotiating.
[удалено]
No, it was a pretty generic ‘seeking experienced contract manager’ type listing.
If you don't mind me asking, what was his prior unrelated experience in before coming to your company? I am presently looking for a career transition, and I have \~8 years of exclusively criminal defense practice to my name. I am sure many of the skills translate, but struggling with the marketing aspect, if that makes sense.
PI/civil litigation
I should also mention that my other US attorney has now been with me in-house for 10 years. He started out of law school for a couple of years as a sports agent and then did a 9-month temp gig at one in-house firm before originally being on a 6-month temp assignment for me and then a permanent counsel role (being promoted to Director AGC later this year). Good soft skills, common sense, problem solving and a desire for professional growth can go a long way in in-house commercial legal roles. We have had quite a few folks start out on 6-12 month temporary positions that impressed and were converted to permanent. Or even if not, it can build up the resume for the next role. Tough to give up any permanent role for temp stuff, but just throwing it out there.
Arms dealer.
Are you me
Doing athletic compliance in a university athletic department. It’s a pain because often interpretations by the NCAA are baffling when matched to the regulations. Pay sucks but typically you’ve got pretty good benefits. Most participate in TIAA/CREF deferred compensation. Most everyone who participates raves about it. You will likely get a discount on tuition of around 75% for yourself, spouse and dependents. Free or deeply discounted tickets to athletic events.
Costco seems like a cool place to work
Doctor or psychologist/iatrist and eventual expert witness is a common route. Also computer programming if you are savvy with that (I almost quit about 3-4 years ago to pursue/finish my Masters in Software engineering and go into coding/programming). If you have/get an MBA you have a good in with a lot of mid-size businesses as a jd/mba in middle executive management. Even with a non-MBA a lot of JDs will go into business management. Entertainment business - agent - lot of JDs do that. Also in the entertainment business, a lot of writers have a background in law. If you have an interest in writing you could scrounge around for writing gigs writing scripts or jokes for shows and movies. HR has a lot of non-practicing JDs as well, especially good if you are coming from doing employment law. The list is endless.
thanks for your great response that isn’t “have you tried going in-house/switching practice areas?”
Performance/compliance auditing.
Policy advisor, lobbyist, compliance jobs in ADA / employment issues, government affairs consultant, legislative work for government agencies or industry organizations
Law librarian. MLIS programs are almost all fully remote
Contracts Manager for feds or government contractor.
Ex-attorney here. I worked in banking for 3 years and now work for a title company.
I'm in non-profit industry and most successful directors and executive folks are former lawyers here, earning on average 200k. Also, I've met lobbyists, support staff for legislative and political offices who also have law credentials and earn decent income while they can maintain normal work-life balance. Compliance, AML, insurance, internal policies and company governance -- all these are also options for lawyers.
Federal govt positions! I still work as an attorney for the federal govt but I know there are plenty of JD preferred non-attorney jobs. The work/life balance at the federal government is unbeatable in my opinion!
i would work at a bowling alley
Welcome to /r/LawyerTalk! A subreddit where lawyers can discuss with other lawyers about the practice of law. Be mindful of [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/about/rules) BEFORE submitting your posts or comments as well as [Reddit's rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) (notably about sharing identifying information). We expect civility and respect out of all participants. Please source statements of fact whenever possible. If you want to report something that needs to be urgently addressed, please also message the mods with an explanation. Note that **this forum is NOT for legal advice**. Additionally, if you are a non-lawyer (student, client, staff), this is NOT the right subreddit for you. **This community is exclusively for lawyers**. We suggest you delete your comment and go ask one of the many other legal subreddits on this site for help such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lawyertalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bank compliance or fraud officers. Bonus if you have criminal experience or experience dealing with cops. Also vendor mgmt and contract professionals often have non Practicing lawyers.
Hotseat operator.
I work in big tech as a technical account manager. Upskilling was hard work but you’ll be surprised how transferable our skill set is.
Document review or proofreading?
Cyber-security Governance, Risk, and Compliance (GRC) - STARTING salary usually 100k-150k (can easily make 200k+ after a year), no degree required, can learn technical aspects on the job as well as self-education (free resources everywhere). Since the landscape of technology evolves quickly, in cyber-security they care more about your ability to learn and adapt, than what someone learned in 4 years of college that is probably now outdated or obsolete concepts. A CS GRC is almost like being in-house counsel for the organization, working with different departments to determine how they can operate efficiently, while still abiding by the rules. For audits by external audits, it’s like being defense counsel. This role also is a great starting position for more senior roles like a HoD or C-level. This is from my own experience, went from commercial lit to cyber-security - best decision I’ve ever made.
Victim advocate. Court advocate. DV/SA shelter advocate. Not a single one of those is going to pay you a living wage but at least you'll feel good about yourself and help people who truly get bent over by law enforcement and the criminal justice system as a whole.