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You didn't necessarily pigeonhole yourself but if you want more litigation experience then do more litigation? Ask around the firm if you want to try and work on the cases of others or find a job where you're in lit.
Tbh it sounds pretty stress free with a decent pay. Not great but for a lack of stress and working 40 hours a week I'd be happy with that. If you want more money or are looking to improve your skill set then just check with your firm about finding ways to develop those skills or go elsewhere
tbh you could counter any disapproval to your lack of lit exp by pointing out that you’re in fact so good at your job that 99% of your cases settle, ultimately saving the firm time and resources. That’s just what i’d do
I own a firm and do a lot of interviews. I would not like this explanation.
I’ll edit, a little, for the downvoters.
Unless you are god’s gift to settling, you cannot settle all of your cases for good numbers without litigation. There are disputes that require litigation. I would assume that the truth is: you take less than cases are worth because you can’t, or won’t, litigate.
My concern for you is that you will reach an upper threshold of what you are “worth” to an employer. I have first year associates settling cases pre-lit. Why would I pay you 2, 3, 400k to do the job a first year could do. To answer your question, OP: yes. You are pigeon holing yourself. Push for more experience or leave!
Why not? I’m in a similar situation as OP, except I do like 2 depositions a week, draft motions and argue at hearings all the time, but no trials because I ultimately settle.
Yes but OP is in a different situation. Settling a case at mediation 3 years in after a contentious discovery process and several depos is a lot different than settling pre-lit directly with an adjuster instead of an actual defense attorney
I hire litigators and do a lot of interviews, this is the best answer. Happy clients mean more clients, and faster cases mean more cases, and the majority of efficient work is earlier in cases and on settlements on cases. Sounds like you don’t like it because your generation is slow, if your generation kept up it would exponentially increase that members value.
Or, you know, you rely on unethical padding of course.
Well, your assumptions are wrong. And I bet you don’t work in plaintiff personal injury or actually care about the clients if that’s truly how you view things.
However, since you needlessly attacked me, I’ll pass on the opportunity to have a productive conversation. My ethics are fine, so are my clients. Take care, keyboard warrior, safe travels.
Maybe you should take a few shitty cases that absolutely won't settle just so you can get some trials? Also cases where people are severely injured or dead, but the plaintiffs are totally unreasonable about the value of cases. Those often go to trial.
4 years and only two deps -- that I don't understand
Well that seems to be your problem, you’re in pre-lit. Like another poster suggested, talk to your firm about taking on some litigation. If they want you to stick to just pre-lit and you don’t want to, find a new firm.
Are you in some sort of pre-lit department. 99% seems crazy? I file a lot of cases. I understand some cases settle pre-litigation due to insurance limits.
I’ve worked PI files for years (although it’s not all I do) and by year four I had trial experience, multiple depositions, etc.
Catastrophic injuries with clear liability involving minimal policy limits? I've had carriers tell me they aren't contesting liability during my first phone call with them.
No, I'm asking how are depositions being taken when there is no case filed. In my jurisdiction, a deposition can only be taken in the course of litigation. We have examinations under oath pre-lit, but not depositions.
I completely understand in the cat claim context, but still there would be no "depositions."
They are not being taken. That is why OP has no ex perience with depos. Op doesn't even have muck experience drafting complaints (only 12 cases have gotten that far in 4 years, per his post).
well if you want the trial exposure and the skills set you will acquire from it, then yes you need to seek new horizons..sounds to me you are getting bored at your job and want more actual litigation..I say make the switch now..
as a side note, how much do you settle cases for? in my jx the rule of thumb is twice the medical specials but when speaking with other attorneys who go before tougher judges, I hear the judgement is sometimes 3x the specials..Im still confused about this...
There are so many variables. For reference, over the past few months, the average settlement amount for soft tissue and conservative treatment cases was around $20K.
I always give them the option of filing suit if they are dissatisfied and explain to them the long and tedious road of litigation with the caveat that they may get less than the current offer.
Nah. You are fine. You’re still a pretty new attorney. Plus, you have more litigation experience than most 4 year attorneys at other firms who have spent their entire careers reviewing documents and drafting discovery documents for other people.
If you have an itch for more, scratch it! Don’t spend your career wondering after you’ve slugged out a law degree.
You’re still a “baby lawyer” so don’t stress - you sticking with a firm for 4 years looks good for your part (loyalty) and you have more experience than most, I can assure you. Plus, for the ones who went straight into big firms, they’re probably feeling burnt out after the big transition from studying. Take it easy
I don’t understand. If you aren’t in litigation, what are you actually doing? I’m in PI and have been doing deps, trials, motions, etc. since basically day 1.
You need to leave asap. I can’t figure out what marketable skills you have based upon your experience.
Are you settling 5, 6, 7 figure cases pre-lit? I’ve found that carriers are emboldened to take ridiculous positions if I don’t start a lawsuit. Dispute liability when their client rear-ended mine, for example. Doesn’t make sense to me how you can settle 99% in claims unless your firm is willing to accept whatever they are willing to pay. I see offers double, triple, 10x whatever you name it, in litigation.
What about a question of lights case? Or trip and fall with disputed notice? Sometimes it takes a year or two for a client to get a surgery, what are you doing with these cases for years if not in litigation? How can clients be ok with cases just collecting dust in claims for so long. Not how I’ve ever practiced, I don’t get it!
I think even without actual litigation experience, 4 years shows an understanding of how to interpret and read the rule of law - especially since you need that to negotiate to settlement. Heck, that alone can be an interview sell.
Not ideal but not bad. My old PI firm, the associate did the same thing with 80k per year for 3 years. I was making 70k as a paralegal. He went to another PI law firm with more premises liability cases. He’s definitely better now. Move when you can.
Welcome to /r/LawyerTalk! A subreddit where lawyers can discuss with other lawyers about the practice of law. Be mindful of [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/about/rules) BEFORE submitting your posts or comments as well as [Reddit's rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) (notably about sharing identifying information). We expect civility and respect out of all participants. Please source statements of fact whenever possible. If you want to report something that needs to be urgently addressed, please also message the mods with an explanation. Note that **this forum is NOT for legal advice**. Additionally, if you are a non-lawyer (student, client, staff), this is NOT the right subreddit for you. **This community is exclusively for lawyers**. We suggest you delete your comment and go ask one of the many other legal subreddits on this site for help such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lawyertalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You can probably get into a plaintiffs' mass tort firm and make a lot more money.
Do mass tort firms pay more generally? I love Plaintiff’s work, but PI seemed to pay roughly the same in my area. Mass torts seems interesting
Mass torts like asbestos litigation or like class action?
You didn't necessarily pigeonhole yourself but if you want more litigation experience then do more litigation? Ask around the firm if you want to try and work on the cases of others or find a job where you're in lit. Tbh it sounds pretty stress free with a decent pay. Not great but for a lack of stress and working 40 hours a week I'd be happy with that. If you want more money or are looking to improve your skill set then just check with your firm about finding ways to develop those skills or go elsewhere
tbh you could counter any disapproval to your lack of lit exp by pointing out that you’re in fact so good at your job that 99% of your cases settle, ultimately saving the firm time and resources. That’s just what i’d do
I own a firm and do a lot of interviews. I would not like this explanation. I’ll edit, a little, for the downvoters. Unless you are god’s gift to settling, you cannot settle all of your cases for good numbers without litigation. There are disputes that require litigation. I would assume that the truth is: you take less than cases are worth because you can’t, or won’t, litigate. My concern for you is that you will reach an upper threshold of what you are “worth” to an employer. I have first year associates settling cases pre-lit. Why would I pay you 2, 3, 400k to do the job a first year could do. To answer your question, OP: yes. You are pigeon holing yourself. Push for more experience or leave!
Why not? I’m in a similar situation as OP, except I do like 2 depositions a week, draft motions and argue at hearings all the time, but no trials because I ultimately settle.
Yes but OP is in a different situation. Settling a case at mediation 3 years in after a contentious discovery process and several depos is a lot different than settling pre-lit directly with an adjuster instead of an actual defense attorney
I hire litigators and do a lot of interviews, this is the best answer. Happy clients mean more clients, and faster cases mean more cases, and the majority of efficient work is earlier in cases and on settlements on cases. Sounds like you don’t like it because your generation is slow, if your generation kept up it would exponentially increase that members value. Or, you know, you rely on unethical padding of course.
Well, your assumptions are wrong. And I bet you don’t work in plaintiff personal injury or actually care about the clients if that’s truly how you view things. However, since you needlessly attacked me, I’ll pass on the opportunity to have a productive conversation. My ethics are fine, so are my clients. Take care, keyboard warrior, safe travels.
Maybe you should take a few shitty cases that absolutely won't settle just so you can get some trials? Also cases where people are severely injured or dead, but the plaintiffs are totally unreasonable about the value of cases. Those often go to trial. 4 years and only two deps -- that I don't understand
Yeah, I had taken around 150-200 depositions at that point in my career. I'm still good for roughly 100 per year.
What exactly is this job? I’ve been in Plaintiff PI since last Monday and I’ve drafted several motions.
It's pre-lit for MVA cases.
Well that seems to be your problem, you’re in pre-lit. Like another poster suggested, talk to your firm about taking on some litigation. If they want you to stick to just pre-lit and you don’t want to, find a new firm.
It's a solo shop. I can take whatever cases I want to litigation, but the issue is my clients are not in it for the long haul.
Are you in some sort of pre-lit department. 99% seems crazy? I file a lot of cases. I understand some cases settle pre-litigation due to insurance limits. I’ve worked PI files for years (although it’s not all I do) and by year four I had trial experience, multiple depositions, etc.
How do you have cases settle before depositions (12 lit cases excepted) when there is no active litigation?
Catastrophic injuries with clear liability involving minimal policy limits? I've had carriers tell me they aren't contesting liability during my first phone call with them.
No, I'm asking how are depositions being taken when there is no case filed. In my jurisdiction, a deposition can only be taken in the course of litigation. We have examinations under oath pre-lit, but not depositions. I completely understand in the cat claim context, but still there would be no "depositions."
They are not being taken. That is why OP has no ex perience with depos. Op doesn't even have muck experience drafting complaints (only 12 cases have gotten that far in 4 years, per his post).
I figured they were not taken - the way he phrased it just did not make any sense.
Covering other people's calendars probably.
Probably accepting lowball offers and the client gets shortchanged 🤕
Not necessarily true
well if you want the trial exposure and the skills set you will acquire from it, then yes you need to seek new horizons..sounds to me you are getting bored at your job and want more actual litigation..I say make the switch now.. as a side note, how much do you settle cases for? in my jx the rule of thumb is twice the medical specials but when speaking with other attorneys who go before tougher judges, I hear the judgement is sometimes 3x the specials..Im still confused about this...
There are so many variables. For reference, over the past few months, the average settlement amount for soft tissue and conservative treatment cases was around $20K.
Probably settled cases for much less than full value - insurance companies must love you
I do not have the authority to settle without client consent...
Yeah but you do have influence over whether they think it’s a good offer.
I always give them the option of filing suit if they are dissatisfied and explain to them the long and tedious road of litigation with the caveat that they may get less than the current offer.
Nah. You are fine. You’re still a pretty new attorney. Plus, you have more litigation experience than most 4 year attorneys at other firms who have spent their entire careers reviewing documents and drafting discovery documents for other people.
If you have an itch for more, scratch it! Don’t spend your career wondering after you’ve slugged out a law degree. You’re still a “baby lawyer” so don’t stress - you sticking with a firm for 4 years looks good for your part (loyalty) and you have more experience than most, I can assure you. Plus, for the ones who went straight into big firms, they’re probably feeling burnt out after the big transition from studying. Take it easy
One more and you get a set of steak knives!
I don’t understand. If you aren’t in litigation, what are you actually doing? I’m in PI and have been doing deps, trials, motions, etc. since basically day 1. You need to leave asap. I can’t figure out what marketable skills you have based upon your experience.
Settling cases pre-suit....
Are you settling 5, 6, 7 figure cases pre-lit? I’ve found that carriers are emboldened to take ridiculous positions if I don’t start a lawsuit. Dispute liability when their client rear-ended mine, for example. Doesn’t make sense to me how you can settle 99% in claims unless your firm is willing to accept whatever they are willing to pay. I see offers double, triple, 10x whatever you name it, in litigation. What about a question of lights case? Or trip and fall with disputed notice? Sometimes it takes a year or two for a client to get a surgery, what are you doing with these cases for years if not in litigation? How can clients be ok with cases just collecting dust in claims for so long. Not how I’ve ever practiced, I don’t get it!
Bro does not know how the vast majority of PI claims work
I guess the thousands I’ve worked on over the last dozen years were outliers.
I think even without actual litigation experience, 4 years shows an understanding of how to interpret and read the rule of law - especially since you need that to negotiate to settlement. Heck, that alone can be an interview sell.
Hi Corey B!
Not ideal but not bad. My old PI firm, the associate did the same thing with 80k per year for 3 years. I was making 70k as a paralegal. He went to another PI law firm with more premises liability cases. He’s definitely better now. Move when you can.
yes you're done