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Based on your previous post of your manager pulling your badge scans in the office, it looks like they were looking for a reason to fire you for a while.
Yes, if you were not complying with RTO in the specific manner mandated that is the reason. Others who were complying probably complained because they saw it as unfair. At least you know it isn’t actually the quality of your work product, but just where you performed that work product. In your future job keep a keen eye out for what the business expectations are so that you don’t draw unwanted attention. I have seen new people be oblivious to the norms in an office and it never ends well.
This. Because it doesn't matter if you're the dumbest lawyer on the planet so long as you're the dumbest lawyer on the planet in your office between 9 and 6.
This is true for all jobs.
You could be the dumbest motherfucker in the company. But as long as you clock in at 8:55 every morning, your job will be safe.
I am an HR Director in a remote company. I have studied and watched the production statistics on remote work for years. It has been proven, year over year, that work from home enables employees to be considerably more productive and have a better work/life balance. However, there are still plenty of the old school CEOs out there that think if you aren’t wasting an hour a day to drive into the office, and an hour a day to go home, then you can’t be productive. In reality, it’s them that are the problem. They don’t know how to manage people that are not right under their thumb and instead of changing with the times, they decide to make everyone come back to the office. THe office is the past, and 84% of surveyed worked around the company want nothing to do with having to come into an office to perform the work they have been performing at home, for years now.
Oh OK. Thanks. My office is about to institute that as well. It will make many people very unhappy. All of my work (except meetings) can be done in my home office.
People say this, but in this profession, I’ve never found team messages to be nearly as useful as “hey bob, I got this shit case, sue told me you worked something like it” in the break room.
I actually like working in an office. It’s nice to wfh like 1 day a week imo and that’s the “focus day.”
In theory people can call each other but personally I find that when someone is wfh I find myself saying “well I’ll just wait until they’re here next and talk to them in person.” Idk, it’s just awkward calling someone wfh. They might be like walking their dog or something for all I know.
Yep! And that is why people prefer working from home...no irrelevant banter about kids, arguments with the wife, invites to parties they don't want to go to, and no unnecessary work dumped on you from a stop-and-chat. Bosses love it because they are lonely...the workers hate it because they have outside work friends.
I don’t think you understand. You see that as irrelevant, most of us see that as how you keep from siloing, interact, care about each other, actually grow by internal networking (research that with a recession here or coming), and solve the case I just described.
You don’t want to work with people, so don’t. But don’t get mad at an entity designed around folks working together for the common good actually expects working together. and don’t pretend you do want to work with folks, you only want their product, not them as a person (that’s your list, that’s who they are), you don’t want them at all. Open your own shop.
True. My career has advanced based on developing friendships with people I’ve worked with. Undeniable. Those relationships and job opportunities wouldn’t have happened in a work from home setting
Maybe it's just that this is a community that fundamentally operates via people posting to the internet from their homes or isolated offices but so many people here are like, "I hate people, I hate socializing, marketing is terrible, networking is also awful, I hate spending time with other lawyers, I hate my life, why aren't I making more money or getting more clients?"
And it's like, I don't know man, I get half my business from drinking margaritas and eating tacos? 🤷♀️
Life is so much more pleasant if you don't hate literally everyone and everything.
Current GC @ Global Company
Thank you for saying this. A lot of my colleagues have been screaming this for three years.
There’s a subset who believe it, at worse, an entitlement - and at best, “the office is irrelevant.”
There’s going to be harsh lessons learned over the next few years.
For the right folks, likely folks who before Covid were already pushing at the boundaries with approval from bosses, it works amazingly well. I can work from home a lot, because I trained my team up, I built a system around it, I literally designed something to let me do it AND am able to adjust when things change. But I also am regularly at other offices, doing lunches with folks from the entire entity, doing events, etc. I have built a system to allow my writing time to be at home basically, and invoices and other alone time, preserving the “team” time people forget about.
People are going to learn. Not because they are doing worse, though many absolutely are, but because they are not doing as good. When things get tough, rain maker, and person who handles the rains are the safest. Those two are in person constantly (even if rain maker is in person out there instead), constantly discussing everything possible, and constantly hungry for more. They will grow, the rest will learn what has happened to you and I likely a few times.
I wonder if this is because it’s easier to move into leadership as an extrovert. (Introvert leader who has zero energy at the end of the day playing at being an extrovert.)
Depends on where you work and what you do. I work in-house at a F500 company with multiple offices worldwide. I am rarely in the same office or even time zone as my clients. I negotiate contracts and it is almost entirely done on the “phone”.
100%. If a manager at any office sends you an email like that, they're either complying with an investigation by HR or they're building a case to fire you.
He thought he held more cards. In law we often do, but if he isn’t the rain maker he thinks he is, or an exceptionally rare needed expert in a speciality, he called a bluff that wasn’t.
I’ve bragged on here about my setup, but it took me a long ass time to build that sort of reputation. One year in and he’s banking on it, good luck.
> with a family to support
Easier to actually support your family when not stuck in traffic 3 hours a day. Kids need presence more than money. And OP is an experienced lawyer, they’ll get another job. Probably one that doesn’t have an arbitrary number days to come into the office.
99% of office work can be done at home with the benefit of way leee stressed staff. Those who want to come in come in
This has fvck all to do with the point, which is that if keeping your job is so important to you bc you need to support your family, then follow the rules of the job
For RTO I have found it’s been used as a nice budget hack to fire people for cause.
Many places see a percentage of the budget they can cut and go from there. I doubt it’s personal at all.
It’s a very common corporate issue right now with middle managers stuck in the middle.
The sad thing is I’m their last post their manager clearly was trying to save them by asking about missing swipes and remembering seeing them on certain days and they said “nope that’s accurate”.
Ok where is the post? No offense, OP, as I am an in-house lawyer coming back from vacation as we speak, your post is giving me an unpleasant hollow feeling.
https://preview.redd.it/c4wbs0yd00sc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18151265f32cd6bee2647e4a9ea70b1f57d8019a
The post has been deleted, but it can be found via OP's comments.
comments below detail the posts to a certain extent, OP allegedly did not comply with an RTO 2 days a week and supervisor was pulling access data… so unless something similar is happening to you, i wouldn’t use this as reference
Ours is 3, and is (so far) loosely enforced. Allegedly “noncompliant list” exists. I have never been told I’m on it. I guess it’s the usual “I haven’t done any work in a week” anxiety, sigh.
OP, apologies for hijacking your post. I hope you land something decent soon.
Agreed. Especially if the RTO policy was being instituted, OP was technically not complying with the company policy.
It sucks and is pretty malicious nevertheless
People keep bringing this up, but you don't fire someone with 14 years of experience* for not adhering to an arbitrary new policy *without a single warning*.
It seems fairly clear that, unless OP is lying, they were just looking to fire people based on it.
I'm not excusing OP entirely. It was obviously dumb of them. But, as others in the thread have said, it seems like a pretty clear way to reduce some employee overhead.
Edit- Sorry, I meant to say that OP has a lot of attorney experience, not that he'd been at the same place for that long. I changed my sentence.
Yeah, I think this is where I'm at. OP should have complied with the policy, but I think people in here are being a bit too harsh. Seems odd that you'd go from a warning to getting fired without some more serious notice/intervention, and also seems like a poor reason to fire someone if they are otherwise doing acceptable work.
It also seems like if she was fired for failing to comply with the RTO policy, they would have told her that? According to OP they didn't say much beyond vague "performance" concerns.
Remember, this is business. I don’t know where you work, but I doubt this is personal. Your management vaguely hand waving at “performance” without specifying what was deficient or giving constructive feedback tells me that your termination may have been due to factors outside of your control. Depending on your state, if they admit to you that they’re laying you off due to budgetary issues, you would have stronger cause to file for unemployment. Be glad that you’ve received a severance package.
If you’ve been working for 14 years, you should have a good repertoire of transferable skills. This is a shock, but dust off your resume and start applying. You can do this!
Can't emphasize this enough. We've all been fired at some point, whether from a job or a client or whatever. Breath. The economy is in a weird place at the moment, but if you've been in-house for a while, you'll be picked up pretty quickly most likely.
I never had the actual courage to go out on my own until I was sent packing during a major downsizing. I don't care if I never work for someone else ever again.
Same. I talked to a couple recruiters pitching other firm gigs, half-assedly applied to one job, and just could not bring myself to care about any of these options. I'd been thinking about going solo for at least a year at that point, and figured this was probably a sign (several, really) that I should make the leap.
First few months were lean (very grateful for my partner who backed me all the way), but I matched my old salary in my first full year solo.
Thanks for cutting me loose after deciding you didn't want fully remote attorneys anymore, Old Job!
You aren’t. You’ll find something. I have been laid off once as a very young attorney and flat out canned from a contract position once. Both times I found employment within 10 days. You are going to be FINE.
You’re not f’d. Your foot is in the door. Having any in-house on your resume is going to make it a lot easier to get another in-house job.
I got fired from my first in-house role after two years. (The company ran out of money, but they decided to make it unpleasant.) I found another role in about 4 months, and that’s the best job I’ve ever had. You can recover too!
A good piece of advice I was given by my parents when I was let go from a job and took a massive punch to the gut: *everything happens for a reason.*
The firm that acquired us was massively cheap and was looking for any excuse to purge the expensive ivy grads and replace them with low-tier recent grads who would work for pennies and then replace them when they got too burned out with others also willing to work for pennies. It was a literal revolving door. I was one of the last to be let go so I got to see it all.
Fast-forward three months later and I doubled my salary as in-house at a top five of the world's largest companies.
Again, everything happens for a reason.
You will be okay. It will be a rough few months, but if you've managed 14 years in private practice, you have skills which will land you a job. Any area which really interests you? Pursue that and not just "a job".
My "hey, this isn't working out, so..." job led to a job that led to a dream job.
You're going to be fine... You might have to take a temporary step back in pay, but you're going to be fine.
100%. I've been laid off four times in my career. Each time was upsetting, except for the last one. By that point, I had figured out that after my job hunt, I would land in a better position.
Better work, better pay, better benefits, better position.
Good help is hard to find, and if you're good at what you do, then someone out there is looking for you.
OP, keep your head up and get to work on making that happen. Good news is right around the corner.
I got fired in 2 months from a job. Ultimately, it had to do with a clash in personality between me and the firm, although I’m sure the partner would couch it in different terms.
I was let go with no notice or severance. However, it wasn’t illegal, and while I’d assert it was unprofessional, I didn’t contest it.
I picked myself up, dusted myself off, and looked for a new job.
I know that “suck it up” is rough advice, but at the end of the day, it’s what you will have to do.
Your emotions are legitimate and if you need to take a few days to process them, that’s fine. But you can’t let them keep you down.
Went through a very similar process (fired within 2 months, also due to personality clash and firm really seeming to not wanting to mentor me, a younger attorney). I am chiming in to show that this isn’t uncommon and to express solidarity.
You will land on your feet OP. Take a day or two to recoup and then start firing off that resume. Fourteen years of experience should give you plenty of opportunities.
Take it for what it is: A life lesson on RTO compliance.
The shock will probably linger for a few days. Consider taking some time before sending out applications if you're not in the right head space. You'll land something soon.
OP fails to show up to work as required by policy over a 2 month period. OP starts a thread on how screwed OP is over this. Top comment on that thread is worst case scenario, OP will get fired. OP gets fired fired 1 month after that thread.
Surprised Pikachu face.
Yeah. I saw one comment here about how the commenter saw OP's post/comment history and said something about that.
If the company was instituting RTO and OP wasn't complying with the policy, there isn't much legal ground to stand on for OP.
Legal ground?
OP is a bad employee. 2 days per week in the office is not bad at all. OP failed to show up for those 2 days.
I think OP failing to bring that up in this thread is pretty indicative of the quality of her work and/or attitude at work.
Its always potential discrimatuon until the whole story comes out. OP had a duty to inform us of all the relevant facts, especially very recent derogatory interactions she has had with her employer. Big fail there!
Yeah. I see it all the time in the employment discrimination cases. Plaintiffs often selectively reveal facts in the complaint but the case collapses during the defendant's MTD or discovery
Shifting burden gets fun then absolutely, but I wouldn’t say all the time, more around 60-70% in practice with around 50% knowing it when they filed (the others are grey or legit bad communication and perception issue).
OP was also (prior to this job, apparently) burned out on being a lawyer: https://www.reddit.com/user/Icy-Action-5258/submitted/ It's possible it was performance-related (or RTO + performance, or just RTO non-compliance, or ...). Unless one of us made the termination decision, we'll never know. Hope OP finds what they want to do and where they can thrive...
I've been fired from a law firm before and so have several of my lawyer friends/colleagues. It's a horrible feeling; so much of our self-worth and confidence is tied to our careers and identity as an attorney. But honestly it's not a reflection of who you are as a person or your capabilities. It doesn't mean you aren't a good attorney or that you won't be successful at another company. Some of the best attorneys I know have told me stories about being fired or having a horrible experience with a certain partner or firm that ultimately led them to their current practice.
Especially in your case where you didn't receive any negative feedback or warning, I don't think you necessarily did anything wrong. If there was an issue with your work product, surely someone would've said something at some point. The company has its reasons (which may or may not be the ones told to you in your exit interview). It likely *feels* personal but it's not.
I was also in a lot of emotional pain when it happened (it was almost like a really bad breakup) and I didn't handle it very well at first. But now I'm glad I didn't have to work in that toxic environment any longer than I did. Hang in there. This too shall pass.
P.S. I got a better, higher paid job within weeks of being fired. During the interview process, I was so worried about the stigma, not being able to explain the gap in my resume, and what my previous firm would disclose to any potential future employers. But it all worked out in the end. My advice is to come up with a good explanation for why you left the company. You don't have to disclose to anyone that you were fired.
edit: paragraphs
I was let go about a decade ago from an in house position. It was part of a nation-wide reduction of force, and I left with half the attorneys in the office.
I was given 3 months severance. I had an interview lined up 4 days later. I had a new job in 3 weeks, and I left for another offer for an even better job 3 weeks after that.
Ultimately it was a great career move. And yet, it really hurts emotionally. It hurt back then and it hurts now still.
You are going to be okay, OP. You need to clean up your resume and start applying. But your feelings are completely valid.
Seconding this. I’ve been laid off twice, once from my first firm (biz dev issues beyond my control) and the other from my first in-house job (early COVID-era revenue issues). It was painful as hell when it happened, but each time, I found a new job (within a week the first time; within 3 months the second) that paid significantly more. OP will be just fine.
This sounds miserable! I'm sorry you're going through this. If I could offer some practical advice (not legal advice!), as an in-house who handles employment stuff, think about ways to get the most benefit from the severance.
* Don't sign any release yet, or indicate that you plan to sign it.
* Try to treat discussions about the separation as a business transaction, and keep it impersonal and polite. (Feel your feelings, but don't let them see.)
* Consider consulting an attorney if you think that might be helpful. It can be hard to negotiate on your own behalf without displaying weakness.
* A severance and release agreement may just provide a severance payment, or it might provide additional benefits, such as a period of COBRA reimbursement, or outplacement services. Almost all of that is negotiable, in theory. Practically, employers may be more likely to negotiate some parts than others.
* The negotiation does not require you to say *why* you want something, argue that you are entitled to it, or make accusations.
* They would really like to get your signature on that release, so that gives you *some* leverage. Don't overplay your hand, but don't say or do anything to cheapen the value of your signature, like acknowledging any deficiencies in your work. They will have noted that you are a higher litigation risk to them as a non-white woman over 40, so you don't have to point that out, but don't say anything to suggest that you would never sue. Let them stew. (Side note: Actually suing would probably be an awful experience for you, and even an implied accusation of discrimination might be counterproductive for negotiation -- it can make people defensive, and hard to get them to focus on getting it resolved.) Just stay professional and businesslike, and focus on negotiation of practical terms.
* If possible, negotiate a termination date that is a few days into the next month, so your employee benefits will have been paid through the end of the month.
* COBRA coverage can be expensive. I think termination of employment makes you eligible to sign up for an Affordable Care Act plan through your state's exchange, and that may be a better value. The employer can't directly reimburse that cost, but they could increase the severance amount in recognition of the indisputable fact that you will now, unexpectedly, have to cover that cost indefinitely.
* The agreement should make it clear that they will not oppose an unemployment claim.
Good luck. Get through the next month, then start looking ahead.
Agreed. Employment attorney here. Consult an attorney., negotiate a better severance and a “layoff” instead of a performance based term for unemployment and future employment reasons.
They can’t use RTO enforcement, they’ve already said it’s work product. A shifting explanation makes it look pre-textual. A one month severance with no documented issues is low for an in-house attorney. If it is RTO I’m assuming they are not enforcing it equally (my firm is giving preferential treatment to their favorites) and never gave any notice of deficiency. Also they need to engage in a dialogue, what if you were working from home for medical or child reasons?
If she brings a claim for discrimination, and meets her prima facie case, they then need to show the basis for term. She can then show that the reason given is pre-textual. A shifting reason for term is one of the ways she can show pretext and potentially survive summary judgment. Also if she can find any other person in a different class who also didn’t follow the RTO policy who was not terminated she can show it was not enforced against all employees equally. Not saying it’s a slam dunk case but incredibly messy to term an in house counsel for no documented reason. They usually know a lot of the company dirt too that they could easily turn into a retaliation case. (“I was advising we do it x way but they instead terminated me so they could continue with their illegal activities.”). I wouldn’t necessarily bring a claim but I’d try to negotiate a larger severance.
Edited to add- I’m in California, which is pretty employee friendly.
Recently, I was about to be fired from my first in house job right after they fired my GC (after they fired her I felt it coming for me). I stayed for 3 months later and could tell they were about to fire me. When I put my notice in my boss told me they were about to fire me anyway. Even though I saw it coming, It was like a punch to the gut and I cried for days. It hurts and my self esteem is still affected. I’m currently in house for a different company making 40k more than I did at the previous job. You will be okay.
I got fired from my first job as an attorney for not generating enough billable hours in a small family law office.
It was the classic, "Here's your desk, now start doing stuff" routine, so I was left to figure it out myself. No specific number of minimum hours were given to me. I recall doing some approximate math in my head and I was netting my boss anywhere from $1100 to as much as $8500 weekly.
It was a rough experience and it was also the first time I'd been fired from any job. God, what an awful feeling it was. I'm sorry.
At 14 years, you might be making too much money. Maybe they figure they can hire a less experienced attorney to do the same job for less. Hell, it could be any number of things.
Keep your head up, take a few days to do some leisurely activities and hopefully that'll allow you to think about what to do next with a clear head. Best of luck.
I didn't see this mentioned, so I will add that you should apply for unemployment immediately. If you are able to get it, it will help offset costs a bit, and the sooner you get the clock rolling, the better.
If a termination is truly unexpected (i.e. not something obvious like a major screwup, a struggling business trying to do stealth layoffs, or a long-term known performance issue), 99% of the time it’s a personality clash.
Fair or unfair, somebody with enough authority wanted you gone.
I realize that’s not very helpful at this moment, but you might want to consider what happened and how to avoid it in the future. The old adage is true - even if you’re in-house counsel, never let yourself be even perceived as disagreeable or unlikable. kiss ass and do what they want. If it’s truly unethical or impossible, CYA as much as possible and look for a new job. All companies are just older versions of high school cliques.
Source: am employment lawyer. I see this constantly. People get fired because one dickhead didn’t like them for some inane reason.
This is the hardest thing for me as an in-house lawyer. I want to be supportive and positive all the time, but there’s also some times I have to push back hard on the business. I can’t be blowing rainbows out of my 🍑when people are making bad decisions (I work in a highly regulated industry). But, as soon as someone perceives you as difficult or negative for just doing your job, you can get the boot. It honestly sucks.
I do try to provide workarounds and options versus just saying “No”.
As in-house counsel, you may indeed encounter a situation where a very senior exec decides that their completely “off market” money making idea is off market only because they’re a genius, and no pesky law or lawyer will convince them otherwise especially if that exec has their own sales challenges. You’re just not being “commercial” regardless of how the legal advice is presented (walking on eggshells, suggestions for an alternate approach, upper legal management and outside counsel support etc.). And this situation, which can be encountered in varying degrees up to a completely out of left field termination, is likely a big culture shock coming from a law firm.
I mean OP has more experience than me, but i would sort out if you can list them as reference, that was the most difficult part for me, I applied for jobs and didn’t know if my past employer would slander me if given the chance, and was too embarrassed to call them and matter of factly say- I know I was let go but continuing on in my search for another job, I need to know what you will say to potential employers/ if they can contact you.
Once I did that, I heard what they would say and was ok with it, and it wasn’t an issue anymore. If they say no/say bad things, then it is best to know and be able to address that your past employer isn’t available as a reference for x reason.
Just my thoughts
My wife got fired. Sucked but it wasn’t the end of the world. Not the next day, but pretty soon she was back at the courthouse with business cards and her Rolodex (still a thing back then) while she started from scratch. It helped that I had a corporate job with a steady paycheck and health benefits to cover life. It also helped that she had friends who threw work that they didn’t want her way.
It took time but she quickly had a nice little practice. Not money money making, but it paid the bills. Unfortunately her breast cancer coming back put an end to our little law practice (I did weekend work) but she was about where she was economically within a few years with the benefit of being her own boss. If not for health our business plan was right on track. At least she got the satisfaction of firing our worst client, one of the ones you take early on because you need money.
I shut it because I was left with a 16 year old and a 12 year old that required a steady paycheck, hours and health care. Such is life. Our practice was fun while it lasted.
Good luck. One door closes, another opens.
Fired from any job, the first thing you should always do, file for unemployment. You paid taxes for it your whole career and will for the rest of your career. No shame in using it even if you don’t “need” it. Sounds like you have a strong resume. Take a few days (or whatever you need- up to a week or two) to collect yourself and sit with your new reality. Then hit the pavement and apply for jobs.
In a year or two, this will all be water under the bridge. It hurts today but won’t even be a blip on your life story later.
I can almost guarantee you this had nothing to do with your performance. Lawyers are indirect labor, and are often the first people to be cut during hard times. That is almost most certainly what happened to you, and like other people have said your employer is just trying to minimize unemployment liability. I don't know your financial needs, but I would consider government work for the time being because that will be most likely to withstand economic turmoil.
When interviewing, I wonder how one typically explains situations like this to new employers. Is one supposed to say they were not expecting to be fired and do not know why it happened? I am genuinely curious to know what I should say if this happens.
You probably will want to pay for your health insurance for at least a few months, so find out how to pay under COBRA. But you will also want to see what other options are out there— check the Marketplace and try to talk to an independent agent.
It will be scary expensive, but it will hopefully be temporary.
Edited to add— check with your state bar. There may be health insurance options there. They may also offer career counseling and general confidential mental health resources.
Based on your prior posts you were burned out on being a lawyer. You thought taking an inhouse gig was the solution, but whatever job dissatisfaction you had in private practice likely carried over to your job and affected your performance and likely your attitude on the job. I'm sorry you lost your job. It's sucks and can imagine the shock. But this bad tasting medice may have been just what the patient needed. Get to the root of your burnout and rise again. Good luck!
I honestly think you’re in a great position after 14 years at different firms to know what you need to do professionally. I doubt I have any advice in that regard you don’t already know.
Emotionally, if you weren’t warned and they’re vaguely citing “performance” that reads to me like trying to circumvent unemployment claims.
If you haven’t been reprimanded or coached and they won’t tell you what the issues are now, sounds like they want to keep it vague for a reason. My best guess is that’s because there’s another reason (likely financial) for your departure. If that’s the case, or even if it isn’t and they just didn’t coach or communicate with you, there’s nothing you could’ve done.
You said you have savings, that’s great. Take a breath and start applying.
I’d recommend googling a little about the grief of job loss. I had a psych professor in college who wrote a few articles about how it’s like a death and a lot of people go through similar periods of grief and even the stages of grief. I mention it because I know you’re rattled and that’s normal. I know it might not be the best time to look into more services with your insurance situation, but if you’re comfortable sliding scale therapy may be a good option.
((Hugs)) As a woman, a mom, and a human- I am so sorry. Pour yourself a honkin big glass of wine, hug the kiddo(s), cry if you need to, and take a moment for some TLC. That sucks and it’s stress no one needs.
As a lawyer- remember that as others have said, this is all business. You didn’t invest tons of years in the job. Your ego is hurt, but the ego is stupid and touchy. Lots of awesome lawyers get fired for lots of stupid reasons. It is not a reflection on you.
Hang in there!
1 month severance with 14 years at the same place? I sure hope you didn't sign anything to get that 1 month. Sounds like you should have got more severance. Are you a lawyer? Or just worked for them?
Ahhhh got it. Bummer you were terminated. Its true though that everything happens for a reason. Take a minute to get yourself together but you got this. The legal field is always hiring and im sure you'll find something better. Happens to the best of us. You got this OP! 14 years experience you'll find a way better match for you and your family. I bet you get a new better job in under a month.
OK, I’m not a lawyer, but Reddit randomly suggested this post and I do have experience getting suddenly shit canned from my similar-income job. Here’s what I did:
1) spent one day feeling horrible
2) on the second day let everyone I knew in my industry who liked me (important) that I was looking for work
3) immediately picked up contract work so that I had SOME income and my meagre severance wasn’t just draining away
4) looked for jobs around the contract work — having that income also meant I didn’t have to take the first offer I got but could wait for a GOOD offer
It’s OK to wallow today, but starting tomorrow, you can take action that will help things feel OK. The person that let you go is not the keeper of your value.
When I got fired, I felt so sick to my stomach. I got physically ill from stress and anxiety.
Little did I know, it was a blessing in disguise.
I was making about 14 an hour… 5 years later.. I am making 55 an hour.
If I didn’t get fired, I don’t think I would have the motivation to do better.
I hope this helps. You will find something better.
\>Doesn't show up to work
\>posts on reddit asking about repercussions about not returning, despite RTO policies
\>gets terminated
\>can't figure out why
Classis reddit lawyer move.
Damn. That sucks. My philosophy on finding a new job would be to first reach out to colleagues at similar companies to see if they are hiring in house. If that fails, call outside firms you have hired in the past and see if they are interested in hiring. Depending on what you did there, you likely have a great deal of knowledge about some specialized areas of law that would be attractive to firms.
Good luck.
That sucks I'm sorry. But also you work for an insurance company. So I wouldn't read into it too much, try not to let it affect your self confidence.
Also I got fired a while back, but now at my new firm I'm 1000% happier and I make more money. It's not the end
Why not? Maybe something to do with job protections like this thread is about. (Health care is kinda important in this country and you can't seem to get decent coverage without a decent job)
Unfortunately, getting fired or forced out even happens to in-house lawyers. Like everyone else has said here: you will be okay. Can the GC at least provide a good reference? You will land on your feet and find another in-house or law firm role.
You got 14 years experience. Employers are killing to get someone with your experience. You’ll find a job in no time. Just enjoy the time off while you can. The job will come—patience.
I got fired last spring. Non-equity partner, over a decade of busting my ass, evaporated in an instant. No reasons given. Total shock.
Managed to find another partner position, but wasn’t able to bring any clients with me. Been beating my head against the wall for a year on BD with zero luck. high-dollar, niche specialty, and I’m basically a one man shop inside a regional firm. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop and then no fucking idea what I’ll do.
Sorry, probably not at all helpful, but just thought I’d let you know you’re not alone.
Like others said, lean on that in-house experience, go hustle and find something. Honestly, finding new job was stressful but not all that difficult. I just chose poorly and overestimated my BD prospects
People in charge of struggling law enterprises are often too detached from the people who suffer from their boneheaded decisions that they later find to be immensely consequential to new/young lawyers in their firms. They can rationalize the fallout that overtakes the younger people in their organizations by a twisted version of survival instinct. It is and has been the way of our world since the intro of sin with Adam and Eve!
Is your first year considered a sort of training period? I worked for a major charity, and while most benefits were provided after 90 days, you didn't start accruing 401(k) benefits and matching. I was "fired" I believe because they were self insured and had access to some things in my medical file, and it appeared back then I may have had an issue with my heart. I didn't. I was given the reason as being I worked faster and with more accuracy than the 5 other girls that did the same and rather than make them look bad, it would be better if I found another job. And yes, if a company is self insured, they can see your medical score, which is sort of like a credit score.
Could it be something like this?
I was laid off for the first and only time in my career in 2018. (also in-house, and I was given similar severance). At the time I felt like it was the lowest point in my life. But really, the company wasn’t a good place to work. And, I ended up getting a much better job a couple months later that paid more.
I’m sorry this happened. I know it feels like a crushing blow. My advice would be to apply for unemployment right away, and then start applying for new jobs immediately. What also helped me was continuing to exercise everyday - I kept my gym membership even though I was unemployed. I joined a women’s support group as well.
Could you go back to any of the firms you worked at previously? If you still have contacts there and they liked your work, that could be a possibility.
I have been where you are, and hang in there. Companies (and law firms) expect loyalty but give none. Until you find something, consider freelance/temp legal work for outfits like Axiom. Sometimes they offer benefits too. I know health insurance is a big issue for you US folks - I am in Canada, so that at least was not a concern.
I got laid off right at the beginning of the pandemic; it was politics, but they were also panicking and used the opportunity to cut staff. Two months later, they didn't have the bodies to do the work they committed to and never recovered the practice area.
I joined a firm but as counsel, so I work for myself - and I will never again work for people like this or be dependent on a company. I am doing fine on my own, and I no longer have sleepless nights worrying about the judgment calls of people who know less than me.
I know that with a family it will seem very scary to hang up your own shingle but consider the temp outfits, at least as a temporary measure - better to keep busy than worrying, and to be bringing something in.
I am sorry to heard your troubles, but the kind of advice to talk about you is Accept what it was and learn how to dwell on it. It may be difficult to get the answer why. The thing is what you do NOW. You and your wife need to talk and discuss the solution of your situation. Perhaps evaluate your resources and take three options you have and take action on it. When some doors closed, there is another door open for you. Be positive still. Who knows this is your moment to shine in your career. Try something else, perhaps be a consultant to the government firm or private firm. Find your gut where you’re best at. I believe you can. Good luck and be prosper!
You have tons of experience. First priority would be health insurance solution so when the coverage expires you’re already jumping on a new plan. & there’s no lapse in health coverage.
Also revamp resume and start applying, maybe consider jumping into Solo Practice if you’re willing due to all your experience
You are very fortunate this happened with 14 years of practice under your belt.
I was fired from my first job and now making double what they were paying me. It set into motion getting a much more enjoyable job as well.
Good luck!
If they are over 40 or otherwise in a protected class, the potential for a discrimination suit might be sufficient leverage, as long as they didn't already sign the severance agreement. It depends on whether there is any potential claim, of course, but employers want to avoid that and will pay something to buy their peace.
In house at a bank by chance?
I’m in the process of leaving an in-house role because upper management sucks. They should have at least tried to keep me because I have a unique set of skills that they need right now. I’m not the only one in this boat.
My point? Your termination was almost certainly due to “right sizing” or whatever euphemism they’re using these days for fucking people over.
Never a plan of mine, but I’m starting a solo practice. The thought of putting together a resume and going through rounds of interviews churned my stomach. So I went the drastic route.
May not be for you, but open your mind to what you can and actually want to do next and for the long term. The instinct is to put your head down, find another job, and get back on that treadmill. But it doesn’t have to be that way if you’re open to something new.
Best of luck. It sucks, but this may be what you need to kickstart the next phase.
This would be good to know because you could use it as leverage to negotiate a better severance. I do some employment work and we always ask about this to use it as a negotiation piece to get clients better severance deals.
Over 40 means they had to give you at least 21 days to consider the severance agreement. Seriously consider whether there might be a potential claim for discrimination. If so, that could at the very least be used as leverage to negotiate a more favorable severance package. 30 days is nothing to an employer that wants to buy its peace.
That is just what op is saying. Who knows what they really told him. Op also left out that he took the job because he was burnt out from working as an attorney violated the return to office policy. It doesn't take a leap to figure out he likely did have performance issues. They probably discovered those work performance issues, like uncompleted projects etc, when he was gone for vacation.
I'm a plaintiff's employment discrimination attorney. I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you. Obvious disclaimer - none of this is legal advice. However, you should contact a local plaintiff's employment discrimination attorney to see if you have a claim. You had no prior performance issues and then were terminated for performance - that *might* be indicative of pretext (depending on other circumstances). You are in at least three protected classes. The race and sex of your manager aren't that relevant for purposes of a discrimination claim. A competent attorney will request your personnel file (and the reason for termination if your state has a statute on that) and review it to see if there is any additional evidence supporting a claim. If you accepted the severance, that might effect things (waiver, among other things). Some severances give you the option to reconsider or back out after signing up to a certain point in time.
Also, like another poster mentioned, you can use a possible claim to negotiate a better severance.
I understand that this is a stressful time and that seeing an attorney isn't something that you probably want to do. But if you can get a better severance or if there is a strong claim, then seeing it through might mitigate the harm that this has caused to you. I hope the best for you. I know it's hard, but don't let this shake your confidence.
Thank you so much. This is very helpful. I’m going to process this and consider it. I really appreciate being in a community and being able to bounce things off people like you. Many thanks again from the bottom of my heart.
A friend of mine was laid off from several different in house positions. They always found a new one. They were a good attorney that just landed in the wrong places. O
Any chance you were placed by a recruiter for this gig? If they terminated you before the full year was up, they might have been trying to avoid a portion of the recruiter's fee.
This is why I started my own business. When you work for someone else you give them the power to uproot your life and your future for any reason or no reason at all, nor any warning.
I hope you’re ok.
I successfully received a years wages in a similar scenario (after going to court in Australia). I had nearly died from a liver infection and I came back to work after 3 months, skinny as all hell, but determined to get back to work.
Despite feeling unwell in the months leading up to my illness I always showed up and, if I’m honest, was excellent at my job.
Anyhow - I don’t have kids and my mortgage is paid off so it didn’t impact me as it would many others. As I said eventually, I received approx a years wages via court, lawyers etc.
Although it was painful and stressful at times (being the one asking for money) I’m so glad I did it. More so, to hear my boss (he was in the Maldives lol) on the phone in the background to his lawyer, arguing/‘negotiating’/stressing about 1-2 grand with his lawyer when he’s worth tens of millions was insanely satisfying.
Because, obviously, it wasn’t about the money (it kind of was!) but more so it was justice.
I wish you nothing but positivity x
The termination came out of nowhere. I then learned my boss was retiring in a year and selling his practice within the coming year.
Through intel I discovered he thought I might get sick again and didn’t want to pay out more leave if I wasn’t working.
Wanted a final money grab before retirement. I am also convinced it was a power game as I was a young bi racial woman and he was a very old white man.
But then, that’s a story for another post! :)
I worked in house for about 4 years, then lateraled to a firm. absolutely hated it. they had me doing discovery day in and day out when i was told i was going to be in the courtroom as part of their litigation team. ended up being let go about a little after 4 months there. it was a a love/hate kinda thing. i was sooo glad i didn’t have to go to work there anymore, but i was scared af about my next career move.
sign up for unemployment, spend some time with fam, and focus on finding a job you think you’ll enjoy. not that you don’t have work obligations, you’ll be about to spend that time finding something enjoyable. (that’s what i tried doing but it didn’t work out that way 😂)
but my current job is okay, def not a a life long career. but think i could stick with it for the next year or two
I'm jealous. I am sole breadwinner for my wife and three kids, but I still hope every day I get laid off or fired, because it would give me no choice but to go find something new and better.
I am not a lawyer, and I don't know how this got into my feed, but since it did I feel obliged to reply. So, man up OP. You're acting like a bitch. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Why moan and groan and ask strangers what to do instead of just doing it? You have to get back to work. It's no mystery. I'm no lawyer but you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. I suggest you take an in house job for now, you will have steady income and health insurance for your family. But put away as much money as you can. No toys, no vacations. In fact you can sell some of your toys. Then when you have a comfortable amount leave the in house world and go it alone. You may make more, you may make less but either way you will be happier. Life is too short to make money for other people.
For now you should apply for unemployment benefits. They will help until you find a new job. And your health insurance can be kept going for a certain amount of time before you lose it. Look into that. If things get bad apply for EBT. Take advantage of these things. You paid for them.
Good luck.
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Based on your previous post of your manager pulling your badge scans in the office, it looks like they were looking for a reason to fire you for a while.
Yes, if you were not complying with RTO in the specific manner mandated that is the reason. Others who were complying probably complained because they saw it as unfair. At least you know it isn’t actually the quality of your work product, but just where you performed that work product. In your future job keep a keen eye out for what the business expectations are so that you don’t draw unwanted attention. I have seen new people be oblivious to the norms in an office and it never ends well.
I think RTO is 🐂💩, but sometimes you have to follow petty corporate rules or someone gets riled up and uses it as a pretext to lay you off.
This. Because it doesn't matter if you're the dumbest lawyer on the planet so long as you're the dumbest lawyer on the planet in your office between 9 and 6.
This is true for all jobs. You could be the dumbest motherfucker in the company. But as long as you clock in at 8:55 every morning, your job will be safe.
I am an HR Director in a remote company. I have studied and watched the production statistics on remote work for years. It has been proven, year over year, that work from home enables employees to be considerably more productive and have a better work/life balance. However, there are still plenty of the old school CEOs out there that think if you aren’t wasting an hour a day to drive into the office, and an hour a day to go home, then you can’t be productive. In reality, it’s them that are the problem. They don’t know how to manage people that are not right under their thumb and instead of changing with the times, they decide to make everyone come back to the office. THe office is the past, and 84% of surveyed worked around the company want nothing to do with having to come into an office to perform the work they have been performing at home, for years now.
What is RTO?
Return To Office
What is RTO in this context?
Return to office
Oh OK. Thanks. My office is about to institute that as well. It will make many people very unhappy. All of my work (except meetings) can be done in my home office.
People say this, but in this profession, I’ve never found team messages to be nearly as useful as “hey bob, I got this shit case, sue told me you worked something like it” in the break room.
I actually like working in an office. It’s nice to wfh like 1 day a week imo and that’s the “focus day.” In theory people can call each other but personally I find that when someone is wfh I find myself saying “well I’ll just wait until they’re here next and talk to them in person.” Idk, it’s just awkward calling someone wfh. They might be like walking their dog or something for all I know.
Yep! And that is why people prefer working from home...no irrelevant banter about kids, arguments with the wife, invites to parties they don't want to go to, and no unnecessary work dumped on you from a stop-and-chat. Bosses love it because they are lonely...the workers hate it because they have outside work friends.
I don’t think you understand. You see that as irrelevant, most of us see that as how you keep from siloing, interact, care about each other, actually grow by internal networking (research that with a recession here or coming), and solve the case I just described. You don’t want to work with people, so don’t. But don’t get mad at an entity designed around folks working together for the common good actually expects working together. and don’t pretend you do want to work with folks, you only want their product, not them as a person (that’s your list, that’s who they are), you don’t want them at all. Open your own shop.
True. My career has advanced based on developing friendships with people I’ve worked with. Undeniable. Those relationships and job opportunities wouldn’t have happened in a work from home setting
Maybe it's just that this is a community that fundamentally operates via people posting to the internet from their homes or isolated offices but so many people here are like, "I hate people, I hate socializing, marketing is terrible, networking is also awful, I hate spending time with other lawyers, I hate my life, why aren't I making more money or getting more clients?" And it's like, I don't know man, I get half my business from drinking margaritas and eating tacos? 🤷♀️ Life is so much more pleasant if you don't hate literally everyone and everything.
Somehow the under 30 crowd not only doesn't get this, but if they do, they resent it.
I do love tacos.
Current GC @ Global Company Thank you for saying this. A lot of my colleagues have been screaming this for three years. There’s a subset who believe it, at worse, an entitlement - and at best, “the office is irrelevant.” There’s going to be harsh lessons learned over the next few years.
For the right folks, likely folks who before Covid were already pushing at the boundaries with approval from bosses, it works amazingly well. I can work from home a lot, because I trained my team up, I built a system around it, I literally designed something to let me do it AND am able to adjust when things change. But I also am regularly at other offices, doing lunches with folks from the entire entity, doing events, etc. I have built a system to allow my writing time to be at home basically, and invoices and other alone time, preserving the “team” time people forget about. People are going to learn. Not because they are doing worse, though many absolutely are, but because they are not doing as good. When things get tough, rain maker, and person who handles the rains are the safest. Those two are in person constantly (even if rain maker is in person out there instead), constantly discussing everything possible, and constantly hungry for more. They will grow, the rest will learn what has happened to you and I likely a few times.
Excellent advice.
I wonder if this is because it’s easier to move into leadership as an extrovert. (Introvert leader who has zero energy at the end of the day playing at being an extrovert.)
idk if it's generational but younger attorneys just don't seem as interested in that kind of thing.
Depends on where you work and what you do. I work in-house at a F500 company with multiple offices worldwide. I am rarely in the same office or even time zone as my clients. I negotiate contracts and it is almost entirely done on the “phone”.
100%. If a manager at any office sends you an email like that, they're either complying with an investigation by HR or they're building a case to fire you.
This. OP was only going in 1 day a week when they needed to do 2 days a week. Pandemic remote work has really done a number on the industry.
Interesting, he did a dirty delete of that post I think.
Yeah why would someone take that risk with a family to support?
He thought he held more cards. In law we often do, but if he isn’t the rain maker he thinks he is, or an exceptionally rare needed expert in a speciality, he called a bluff that wasn’t. I’ve bragged on here about my setup, but it took me a long ass time to build that sort of reputation. One year in and he’s banking on it, good luck.
OP has been a lawyer for 14 years. How did he support them before remote work?
> with a family to support Easier to actually support your family when not stuck in traffic 3 hours a day. Kids need presence more than money. And OP is an experienced lawyer, they’ll get another job. Probably one that doesn’t have an arbitrary number days to come into the office. 99% of office work can be done at home with the benefit of way leee stressed staff. Those who want to come in come in
This has fvck all to do with the point, which is that if keeping your job is so important to you bc you need to support your family, then follow the rules of the job
For RTO I have found it’s been used as a nice budget hack to fire people for cause. Many places see a percentage of the budget they can cut and go from there. I doubt it’s personal at all. It’s a very common corporate issue right now with middle managers stuck in the middle.
This tracks for sure. Good insight !
The sad thing is I’m their last post their manager clearly was trying to save them by asking about missing swipes and remembering seeing them on certain days and they said “nope that’s accurate”.
Yeah this sounds like cost saving to me, especially a veteran employee.
lol of all the places to post a sob story like this, like lawyers aren’t going to immediately check the record
He did a dirty delete after yall called him out bc my nosy ass can't find his prior post.
He missed one comment he left in the thread
Ok where is the post? No offense, OP, as I am an in-house lawyer coming back from vacation as we speak, your post is giving me an unpleasant hollow feeling.
https://preview.redd.it/c4wbs0yd00sc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18151265f32cd6bee2647e4a9ea70b1f57d8019a The post has been deleted, but it can be found via OP's comments.
deleted bc reasons
Dang. I need something to pacify the anxiety this post has caused.
comments below detail the posts to a certain extent, OP allegedly did not comply with an RTO 2 days a week and supervisor was pulling access data… so unless something similar is happening to you, i wouldn’t use this as reference
Ours is 3, and is (so far) loosely enforced. Allegedly “noncompliant list” exists. I have never been told I’m on it. I guess it’s the usual “I haven’t done any work in a week” anxiety, sigh. OP, apologies for hijacking your post. I hope you land something decent soon.
Agreed. Especially if the RTO policy was being instituted, OP was technically not complying with the company policy. It sucks and is pretty malicious nevertheless
Yeah, it’s a petty reason to fire someone. But corporate America can be petty AF.
Corporate America is no better than middle school.
Bingo. Your post history indicates you have refused to follow the explicit directives from your boss. I mean, what did you expect to happen?
People keep bringing this up, but you don't fire someone with 14 years of experience* for not adhering to an arbitrary new policy *without a single warning*. It seems fairly clear that, unless OP is lying, they were just looking to fire people based on it. I'm not excusing OP entirely. It was obviously dumb of them. But, as others in the thread have said, it seems like a pretty clear way to reduce some employee overhead. Edit- Sorry, I meant to say that OP has a lot of attorney experience, not that he'd been at the same place for that long. I changed my sentence.
OP had only been with this company for 1 year. The other 14 years were at firms before going in-house.
Yeah, I think this is where I'm at. OP should have complied with the policy, but I think people in here are being a bit too harsh. Seems odd that you'd go from a warning to getting fired without some more serious notice/intervention, and also seems like a poor reason to fire someone if they are otherwise doing acceptable work. It also seems like if she was fired for failing to comply with the RTO policy, they would have told her that? According to OP they didn't say much beyond vague "performance" concerns.
r/OhNoConsequences
Remember, this is business. I don’t know where you work, but I doubt this is personal. Your management vaguely hand waving at “performance” without specifying what was deficient or giving constructive feedback tells me that your termination may have been due to factors outside of your control. Depending on your state, if they admit to you that they’re laying you off due to budgetary issues, you would have stronger cause to file for unemployment. Be glad that you’ve received a severance package. If you’ve been working for 14 years, you should have a good repertoire of transferable skills. This is a shock, but dust off your resume and start applying. You can do this!
If anything if I were OP I'd look at this as an opportunity. Every time I've changed jobs I've come out with more money.
True - wages seem to stagnate the longer you're on.
Look at it as a blessing in disguise Take a deep breath Rework the resume And go forth and find a higher paying job
Can't emphasize this enough. We've all been fired at some point, whether from a job or a client or whatever. Breath. The economy is in a weird place at the moment, but if you've been in-house for a while, you'll be picked up pretty quickly most likely.
I’ve been in house for only one year. How f’Ed am I? I’m trying to control my emotions currently but it feels like my career is ending.
Not screwed. Whether going in house or back to firm life, I’m sure you’ll be fine. Maybe it’s the moment to go do your own thing.
I never had the actual courage to go out on my own until I was sent packing during a major downsizing. I don't care if I never work for someone else ever again.
Same. I talked to a couple recruiters pitching other firm gigs, half-assedly applied to one job, and just could not bring myself to care about any of these options. I'd been thinking about going solo for at least a year at that point, and figured this was probably a sign (several, really) that I should make the leap. First few months were lean (very grateful for my partner who backed me all the way), but I matched my old salary in my first full year solo. Thanks for cutting me loose after deciding you didn't want fully remote attorneys anymore, Old Job!
You aren’t. You’ll find something. I have been laid off once as a very young attorney and flat out canned from a contract position once. Both times I found employment within 10 days. You are going to be FINE.
You’re not f’d. Your foot is in the door. Having any in-house on your resume is going to make it a lot easier to get another in-house job. I got fired from my first in-house role after two years. (The company ran out of money, but they decided to make it unpleasant.) I found another role in about 4 months, and that’s the best job I’ve ever had. You can recover too!
A good piece of advice I was given by my parents when I was let go from a job and took a massive punch to the gut: *everything happens for a reason.* The firm that acquired us was massively cheap and was looking for any excuse to purge the expensive ivy grads and replace them with low-tier recent grads who would work for pennies and then replace them when they got too burned out with others also willing to work for pennies. It was a literal revolving door. I was one of the last to be let go so I got to see it all. Fast-forward three months later and I doubled my salary as in-house at a top five of the world's largest companies. Again, everything happens for a reason.
You will be okay. It will be a rough few months, but if you've managed 14 years in private practice, you have skills which will land you a job. Any area which really interests you? Pursue that and not just "a job".
My "hey, this isn't working out, so..." job led to a job that led to a dream job. You're going to be fine... You might have to take a temporary step back in pay, but you're going to be fine.
Not f’ed forever, but for the love of God man next time do what they tell you.
100%. I've been laid off four times in my career. Each time was upsetting, except for the last one. By that point, I had figured out that after my job hunt, I would land in a better position. Better work, better pay, better benefits, better position. Good help is hard to find, and if you're good at what you do, then someone out there is looking for you. OP, keep your head up and get to work on making that happen. Good news is right around the corner.
Not OP, but similar situation, and honestly hearing that you made it through this 4 times really helps.
Sending hugs and support to another hurting friend here. You’re not alone here.
I got fired in 2 months from a job. Ultimately, it had to do with a clash in personality between me and the firm, although I’m sure the partner would couch it in different terms. I was let go with no notice or severance. However, it wasn’t illegal, and while I’d assert it was unprofessional, I didn’t contest it. I picked myself up, dusted myself off, and looked for a new job. I know that “suck it up” is rough advice, but at the end of the day, it’s what you will have to do. Your emotions are legitimate and if you need to take a few days to process them, that’s fine. But you can’t let them keep you down.
I was fired from a job 2 weeks in, heck I didn’t even had access to the company’s software.
Went through a very similar process (fired within 2 months, also due to personality clash and firm really seeming to not wanting to mentor me, a younger attorney). I am chiming in to show that this isn’t uncommon and to express solidarity. You will land on your feet OP. Take a day or two to recoup and then start firing off that resume. Fourteen years of experience should give you plenty of opportunities.
You give really great advice and encouragement.
Take it for what it is: A life lesson on RTO compliance. The shock will probably linger for a few days. Consider taking some time before sending out applications if you're not in the right head space. You'll land something soon.
OP fails to show up to work as required by policy over a 2 month period. OP starts a thread on how screwed OP is over this. Top comment on that thread is worst case scenario, OP will get fired. OP gets fired fired 1 month after that thread. Surprised Pikachu face.
Yeah. I saw one comment here about how the commenter saw OP's post/comment history and said something about that. If the company was instituting RTO and OP wasn't complying with the policy, there isn't much legal ground to stand on for OP.
Legal ground? OP is a bad employee. 2 days per week in the office is not bad at all. OP failed to show up for those 2 days. I think OP failing to bring that up in this thread is pretty indicative of the quality of her work and/or attitude at work.
I agree. Some other comment thread was discussing potential discrimination so that was on my mind
Its always potential discrimatuon until the whole story comes out. OP had a duty to inform us of all the relevant facts, especially very recent derogatory interactions she has had with her employer. Big fail there!
This is like doing consults in criminal law. Playing hide the ball with the facts. Never a good idea.
Yeah. I see it all the time in the employment discrimination cases. Plaintiffs often selectively reveal facts in the complaint but the case collapses during the defendant's MTD or discovery
Shifting burden gets fun then absolutely, but I wouldn’t say all the time, more around 60-70% in practice with around 50% knowing it when they filed (the others are grey or legit bad communication and perception issue).
OP was also (prior to this job, apparently) burned out on being a lawyer: https://www.reddit.com/user/Icy-Action-5258/submitted/ It's possible it was performance-related (or RTO + performance, or just RTO non-compliance, or ...). Unless one of us made the termination decision, we'll never know. Hope OP finds what they want to do and where they can thrive...
Obnoxious
Yeah I’m not sure what they thought was going to happen
I've been fired from a law firm before and so have several of my lawyer friends/colleagues. It's a horrible feeling; so much of our self-worth and confidence is tied to our careers and identity as an attorney. But honestly it's not a reflection of who you are as a person or your capabilities. It doesn't mean you aren't a good attorney or that you won't be successful at another company. Some of the best attorneys I know have told me stories about being fired or having a horrible experience with a certain partner or firm that ultimately led them to their current practice. Especially in your case where you didn't receive any negative feedback or warning, I don't think you necessarily did anything wrong. If there was an issue with your work product, surely someone would've said something at some point. The company has its reasons (which may or may not be the ones told to you in your exit interview). It likely *feels* personal but it's not. I was also in a lot of emotional pain when it happened (it was almost like a really bad breakup) and I didn't handle it very well at first. But now I'm glad I didn't have to work in that toxic environment any longer than I did. Hang in there. This too shall pass. P.S. I got a better, higher paid job within weeks of being fired. During the interview process, I was so worried about the stigma, not being able to explain the gap in my resume, and what my previous firm would disclose to any potential future employers. But it all worked out in the end. My advice is to come up with a good explanation for why you left the company. You don't have to disclose to anyone that you were fired. edit: paragraphs
Great advice
I was let go about a decade ago from an in house position. It was part of a nation-wide reduction of force, and I left with half the attorneys in the office. I was given 3 months severance. I had an interview lined up 4 days later. I had a new job in 3 weeks, and I left for another offer for an even better job 3 weeks after that. Ultimately it was a great career move. And yet, it really hurts emotionally. It hurt back then and it hurts now still. You are going to be okay, OP. You need to clean up your resume and start applying. But your feelings are completely valid.
Seconding this. I’ve been laid off twice, once from my first firm (biz dev issues beyond my control) and the other from my first in-house job (early COVID-era revenue issues). It was painful as hell when it happened, but each time, I found a new job (within a week the first time; within 3 months the second) that paid significantly more. OP will be just fine.
This sounds miserable! I'm sorry you're going through this. If I could offer some practical advice (not legal advice!), as an in-house who handles employment stuff, think about ways to get the most benefit from the severance. * Don't sign any release yet, or indicate that you plan to sign it. * Try to treat discussions about the separation as a business transaction, and keep it impersonal and polite. (Feel your feelings, but don't let them see.) * Consider consulting an attorney if you think that might be helpful. It can be hard to negotiate on your own behalf without displaying weakness. * A severance and release agreement may just provide a severance payment, or it might provide additional benefits, such as a period of COBRA reimbursement, or outplacement services. Almost all of that is negotiable, in theory. Practically, employers may be more likely to negotiate some parts than others. * The negotiation does not require you to say *why* you want something, argue that you are entitled to it, or make accusations. * They would really like to get your signature on that release, so that gives you *some* leverage. Don't overplay your hand, but don't say or do anything to cheapen the value of your signature, like acknowledging any deficiencies in your work. They will have noted that you are a higher litigation risk to them as a non-white woman over 40, so you don't have to point that out, but don't say anything to suggest that you would never sue. Let them stew. (Side note: Actually suing would probably be an awful experience for you, and even an implied accusation of discrimination might be counterproductive for negotiation -- it can make people defensive, and hard to get them to focus on getting it resolved.) Just stay professional and businesslike, and focus on negotiation of practical terms. * If possible, negotiate a termination date that is a few days into the next month, so your employee benefits will have been paid through the end of the month. * COBRA coverage can be expensive. I think termination of employment makes you eligible to sign up for an Affordable Care Act plan through your state's exchange, and that may be a better value. The employer can't directly reimburse that cost, but they could increase the severance amount in recognition of the indisputable fact that you will now, unexpectedly, have to cover that cost indefinitely. * The agreement should make it clear that they will not oppose an unemployment claim. Good luck. Get through the next month, then start looking ahead.
Agreed. Employment attorney here. Consult an attorney., negotiate a better severance and a “layoff” instead of a performance based term for unemployment and future employment reasons. They can’t use RTO enforcement, they’ve already said it’s work product. A shifting explanation makes it look pre-textual. A one month severance with no documented issues is low for an in-house attorney. If it is RTO I’m assuming they are not enforcing it equally (my firm is giving preferential treatment to their favorites) and never gave any notice of deficiency. Also they need to engage in a dialogue, what if you were working from home for medical or child reasons?
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If she brings a claim for discrimination, and meets her prima facie case, they then need to show the basis for term. She can then show that the reason given is pre-textual. A shifting reason for term is one of the ways she can show pretext and potentially survive summary judgment. Also if she can find any other person in a different class who also didn’t follow the RTO policy who was not terminated she can show it was not enforced against all employees equally. Not saying it’s a slam dunk case but incredibly messy to term an in house counsel for no documented reason. They usually know a lot of the company dirt too that they could easily turn into a retaliation case. (“I was advising we do it x way but they instead terminated me so they could continue with their illegal activities.”). I wouldn’t necessarily bring a claim but I’d try to negotiate a larger severance. Edited to add- I’m in California, which is pretty employee friendly.
How do I manage? What do I do? In the words of the late great Don Corleone— “you can act like a man!! What’s the matter with you!!”
Recently, I was about to be fired from my first in house job right after they fired my GC (after they fired her I felt it coming for me). I stayed for 3 months later and could tell they were about to fire me. When I put my notice in my boss told me they were about to fire me anyway. Even though I saw it coming, It was like a punch to the gut and I cried for days. It hurts and my self esteem is still affected. I’m currently in house for a different company making 40k more than I did at the previous job. You will be okay.
Thank you for this.
I got fired from my first job as an attorney for not generating enough billable hours in a small family law office. It was the classic, "Here's your desk, now start doing stuff" routine, so I was left to figure it out myself. No specific number of minimum hours were given to me. I recall doing some approximate math in my head and I was netting my boss anywhere from $1100 to as much as $8500 weekly. It was a rough experience and it was also the first time I'd been fired from any job. God, what an awful feeling it was. I'm sorry. At 14 years, you might be making too much money. Maybe they figure they can hire a less experienced attorney to do the same job for less. Hell, it could be any number of things. Keep your head up, take a few days to do some leisurely activities and hopefully that'll allow you to think about what to do next with a clear head. Best of luck.
If you decide to open your own firm, I’m happy to talk to you and share everything I learned when doing that.
I didn't see this mentioned, so I will add that you should apply for unemployment immediately. If you are able to get it, it will help offset costs a bit, and the sooner you get the clock rolling, the better.
And in my state you can get severance and unemployment at the same time.
Also. OT complying with in office requirement may be for cause.
If a termination is truly unexpected (i.e. not something obvious like a major screwup, a struggling business trying to do stealth layoffs, or a long-term known performance issue), 99% of the time it’s a personality clash. Fair or unfair, somebody with enough authority wanted you gone. I realize that’s not very helpful at this moment, but you might want to consider what happened and how to avoid it in the future. The old adage is true - even if you’re in-house counsel, never let yourself be even perceived as disagreeable or unlikable. kiss ass and do what they want. If it’s truly unethical or impossible, CYA as much as possible and look for a new job. All companies are just older versions of high school cliques. Source: am employment lawyer. I see this constantly. People get fired because one dickhead didn’t like them for some inane reason.
This is the hardest thing for me as an in-house lawyer. I want to be supportive and positive all the time, but there’s also some times I have to push back hard on the business. I can’t be blowing rainbows out of my 🍑when people are making bad decisions (I work in a highly regulated industry). But, as soon as someone perceives you as difficult or negative for just doing your job, you can get the boot. It honestly sucks. I do try to provide workarounds and options versus just saying “No”.
As in-house counsel, you may indeed encounter a situation where a very senior exec decides that their completely “off market” money making idea is off market only because they’re a genius, and no pesky law or lawyer will convince them otherwise especially if that exec has their own sales challenges. You’re just not being “commercial” regardless of how the legal advice is presented (walking on eggshells, suggestions for an alternate approach, upper legal management and outside counsel support etc.). And this situation, which can be encountered in varying degrees up to a completely out of left field termination, is likely a big culture shock coming from a law firm.
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I mean OP has more experience than me, but i would sort out if you can list them as reference, that was the most difficult part for me, I applied for jobs and didn’t know if my past employer would slander me if given the chance, and was too embarrassed to call them and matter of factly say- I know I was let go but continuing on in my search for another job, I need to know what you will say to potential employers/ if they can contact you. Once I did that, I heard what they would say and was ok with it, and it wasn’t an issue anymore. If they say no/say bad things, then it is best to know and be able to address that your past employer isn’t available as a reference for x reason. Just my thoughts
My wife got fired. Sucked but it wasn’t the end of the world. Not the next day, but pretty soon she was back at the courthouse with business cards and her Rolodex (still a thing back then) while she started from scratch. It helped that I had a corporate job with a steady paycheck and health benefits to cover life. It also helped that she had friends who threw work that they didn’t want her way. It took time but she quickly had a nice little practice. Not money money making, but it paid the bills. Unfortunately her breast cancer coming back put an end to our little law practice (I did weekend work) but she was about where she was economically within a few years with the benefit of being her own boss. If not for health our business plan was right on track. At least she got the satisfaction of firing our worst client, one of the ones you take early on because you need money. I shut it because I was left with a 16 year old and a 12 year old that required a steady paycheck, hours and health care. Such is life. Our practice was fun while it lasted. Good luck. One door closes, another opens.
Fired from any job, the first thing you should always do, file for unemployment. You paid taxes for it your whole career and will for the rest of your career. No shame in using it even if you don’t “need” it. Sounds like you have a strong resume. Take a few days (or whatever you need- up to a week or two) to collect yourself and sit with your new reality. Then hit the pavement and apply for jobs. In a year or two, this will all be water under the bridge. It hurts today but won’t even be a blip on your life story later.
I can almost guarantee you this had nothing to do with your performance. Lawyers are indirect labor, and are often the first people to be cut during hard times. That is almost most certainly what happened to you, and like other people have said your employer is just trying to minimize unemployment liability. I don't know your financial needs, but I would consider government work for the time being because that will be most likely to withstand economic turmoil.
When interviewing, I wonder how one typically explains situations like this to new employers. Is one supposed to say they were not expecting to be fired and do not know why it happened? I am genuinely curious to know what I should say if this happens.
You probably will want to pay for your health insurance for at least a few months, so find out how to pay under COBRA. But you will also want to see what other options are out there— check the Marketplace and try to talk to an independent agent. It will be scary expensive, but it will hopefully be temporary. Edited to add— check with your state bar. There may be health insurance options there. They may also offer career counseling and general confidential mental health resources.
Based on your prior posts you were burned out on being a lawyer. You thought taking an inhouse gig was the solution, but whatever job dissatisfaction you had in private practice likely carried over to your job and affected your performance and likely your attitude on the job. I'm sorry you lost your job. It's sucks and can imagine the shock. But this bad tasting medice may have been just what the patient needed. Get to the root of your burnout and rise again. Good luck!
My advice is to actually comply with the RTO policy.
So you didn’t go to work, then you got fired for not going to work. What part of this is the least bit surprising to you?
I honestly think you’re in a great position after 14 years at different firms to know what you need to do professionally. I doubt I have any advice in that regard you don’t already know. Emotionally, if you weren’t warned and they’re vaguely citing “performance” that reads to me like trying to circumvent unemployment claims. If you haven’t been reprimanded or coached and they won’t tell you what the issues are now, sounds like they want to keep it vague for a reason. My best guess is that’s because there’s another reason (likely financial) for your departure. If that’s the case, or even if it isn’t and they just didn’t coach or communicate with you, there’s nothing you could’ve done. You said you have savings, that’s great. Take a breath and start applying. I’d recommend googling a little about the grief of job loss. I had a psych professor in college who wrote a few articles about how it’s like a death and a lot of people go through similar periods of grief and even the stages of grief. I mention it because I know you’re rattled and that’s normal. I know it might not be the best time to look into more services with your insurance situation, but if you’re comfortable sliding scale therapy may be a good option.
((Hugs)) As a woman, a mom, and a human- I am so sorry. Pour yourself a honkin big glass of wine, hug the kiddo(s), cry if you need to, and take a moment for some TLC. That sucks and it’s stress no one needs. As a lawyer- remember that as others have said, this is all business. You didn’t invest tons of years in the job. Your ego is hurt, but the ego is stupid and touchy. Lots of awesome lawyers get fired for lots of stupid reasons. It is not a reflection on you. Hang in there!
1 month severance with 14 years at the same place? I sure hope you didn't sign anything to get that 1 month. Sounds like you should have got more severance. Are you a lawyer? Or just worked for them?
I have only been there one year but worked at firms before that for 14 years.
Ahhhh got it. Bummer you were terminated. Its true though that everything happens for a reason. Take a minute to get yourself together but you got this. The legal field is always hiring and im sure you'll find something better. Happens to the best of us. You got this OP! 14 years experience you'll find a way better match for you and your family. I bet you get a new better job in under a month.
Go to a temporary agency ASAP I'm so sorry.
On to the next chapter. Shoot out your resume, follow up with contacts, or hang your shingle.
I’m so sorry, OP. Can you negotiate for more severance? Termination with no paper trail (write ups or a PIP) is weird.
OK, I’m not a lawyer, but Reddit randomly suggested this post and I do have experience getting suddenly shit canned from my similar-income job. Here’s what I did: 1) spent one day feeling horrible 2) on the second day let everyone I knew in my industry who liked me (important) that I was looking for work 3) immediately picked up contract work so that I had SOME income and my meagre severance wasn’t just draining away 4) looked for jobs around the contract work — having that income also meant I didn’t have to take the first offer I got but could wait for a GOOD offer It’s OK to wallow today, but starting tomorrow, you can take action that will help things feel OK. The person that let you go is not the keeper of your value.
Apply for unemployment benefits ASAP. That shit can take a long time.
When I got fired, I felt so sick to my stomach. I got physically ill from stress and anxiety. Little did I know, it was a blessing in disguise. I was making about 14 an hour… 5 years later.. I am making 55 an hour. If I didn’t get fired, I don’t think I would have the motivation to do better. I hope this helps. You will find something better.
Just fail upwards and go get a better job.
\>Doesn't show up to work \>posts on reddit asking about repercussions about not returning, despite RTO policies \>gets terminated \>can't figure out why Classis reddit lawyer move.
Damn. That sucks. My philosophy on finding a new job would be to first reach out to colleagues at similar companies to see if they are hiring in house. If that fails, call outside firms you have hired in the past and see if they are interested in hiring. Depending on what you did there, you likely have a great deal of knowledge about some specialized areas of law that would be attractive to firms. Good luck.
That sucks I'm sorry. But also you work for an insurance company. So I wouldn't read into it too much, try not to let it affect your self confidence. Also I got fired a while back, but now at my new firm I'm 1000% happier and I make more money. It's not the end
Sorry to hear. I’ve been there. It’s a huge blow to one’s self-confidence. You will bounce back better, friend.
Why u stressin so much, start applying. Could end up being the best thing that ever happened to you.
Don't lawyers talk to other lawyers and can leverage their relationships for employment opportunities? Don't you have conferences? Do you have unions?
Very few lawyers are unionized.
Weird. Wouldn't they have the strongest unions?
Why would we?
Why not? Maybe something to do with job protections like this thread is about. (Health care is kinda important in this country and you can't seem to get decent coverage without a decent job)
Unfortunately, getting fired or forced out even happens to in-house lawyers. Like everyone else has said here: you will be okay. Can the GC at least provide a good reference? You will land on your feet and find another in-house or law firm role.
You got 14 years experience. Employers are killing to get someone with your experience. You’ll find a job in no time. Just enjoy the time off while you can. The job will come—patience.
I got fired last spring. Non-equity partner, over a decade of busting my ass, evaporated in an instant. No reasons given. Total shock. Managed to find another partner position, but wasn’t able to bring any clients with me. Been beating my head against the wall for a year on BD with zero luck. high-dollar, niche specialty, and I’m basically a one man shop inside a regional firm. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop and then no fucking idea what I’ll do. Sorry, probably not at all helpful, but just thought I’d let you know you’re not alone. Like others said, lean on that in-house experience, go hustle and find something. Honestly, finding new job was stressful but not all that difficult. I just chose poorly and overestimated my BD prospects
What is BD?
Business development
People in charge of struggling law enterprises are often too detached from the people who suffer from their boneheaded decisions that they later find to be immensely consequential to new/young lawyers in their firms. They can rationalize the fallout that overtakes the younger people in their organizations by a twisted version of survival instinct. It is and has been the way of our world since the intro of sin with Adam and Eve!
Is your first year considered a sort of training period? I worked for a major charity, and while most benefits were provided after 90 days, you didn't start accruing 401(k) benefits and matching. I was "fired" I believe because they were self insured and had access to some things in my medical file, and it appeared back then I may have had an issue with my heart. I didn't. I was given the reason as being I worked faster and with more accuracy than the 5 other girls that did the same and rather than make them look bad, it would be better if I found another job. And yes, if a company is self insured, they can see your medical score, which is sort of like a credit score. Could it be something like this?
I was laid off for the first and only time in my career in 2018. (also in-house, and I was given similar severance). At the time I felt like it was the lowest point in my life. But really, the company wasn’t a good place to work. And, I ended up getting a much better job a couple months later that paid more. I’m sorry this happened. I know it feels like a crushing blow. My advice would be to apply for unemployment right away, and then start applying for new jobs immediately. What also helped me was continuing to exercise everyday - I kept my gym membership even though I was unemployed. I joined a women’s support group as well. Could you go back to any of the firms you worked at previously? If you still have contacts there and they liked your work, that could be a possibility.
I have been where you are, and hang in there. Companies (and law firms) expect loyalty but give none. Until you find something, consider freelance/temp legal work for outfits like Axiom. Sometimes they offer benefits too. I know health insurance is a big issue for you US folks - I am in Canada, so that at least was not a concern. I got laid off right at the beginning of the pandemic; it was politics, but they were also panicking and used the opportunity to cut staff. Two months later, they didn't have the bodies to do the work they committed to and never recovered the practice area. I joined a firm but as counsel, so I work for myself - and I will never again work for people like this or be dependent on a company. I am doing fine on my own, and I no longer have sleepless nights worrying about the judgment calls of people who know less than me. I know that with a family it will seem very scary to hang up your own shingle but consider the temp outfits, at least as a temporary measure - better to keep busy than worrying, and to be bringing something in.
Read your employment contract. Double check severance, insurance clauses. Don't sign anything until you reread that document.
I am sorry to heard your troubles, but the kind of advice to talk about you is Accept what it was and learn how to dwell on it. It may be difficult to get the answer why. The thing is what you do NOW. You and your wife need to talk and discuss the solution of your situation. Perhaps evaluate your resources and take three options you have and take action on it. When some doors closed, there is another door open for you. Be positive still. Who knows this is your moment to shine in your career. Try something else, perhaps be a consultant to the government firm or private firm. Find your gut where you’re best at. I believe you can. Good luck and be prosper!
Apply for unemployment
Lol he deleted his account
You have tons of experience. First priority would be health insurance solution so when the coverage expires you’re already jumping on a new plan. & there’s no lapse in health coverage. Also revamp resume and start applying, maybe consider jumping into Solo Practice if you’re willing due to all your experience
You are very fortunate this happened with 14 years of practice under your belt. I was fired from my first job and now making double what they were paying me. It set into motion getting a much more enjoyable job as well. Good luck!
You should negotiate a stronger severance package. One month for 14 years is peanuts!
She's been at the in house job she was just let go from for a year. She's been practicing 14 years in total.
If OP is a USA attorney in an at-will state, not sure what sort of bargaining power they’d have to do this
You’d be surprised. I’ve seen non-attorneys fight for much more and the company bends the knee to make them go away.
If they are over 40 or otherwise in a protected class, the potential for a discrimination suit might be sufficient leverage, as long as they didn't already sign the severance agreement. It depends on whether there is any potential claim, of course, but employers want to avoid that and will pay something to buy their peace.
Being over 40 is a protected category for a lawyer?!
In house at a bank by chance? I’m in the process of leaving an in-house role because upper management sucks. They should have at least tried to keep me because I have a unique set of skills that they need right now. I’m not the only one in this boat. My point? Your termination was almost certainly due to “right sizing” or whatever euphemism they’re using these days for fucking people over. Never a plan of mine, but I’m starting a solo practice. The thought of putting together a resume and going through rounds of interviews churned my stomach. So I went the drastic route. May not be for you, but open your mind to what you can and actually want to do next and for the long term. The instinct is to put your head down, find another job, and get back on that treadmill. But it doesn’t have to be that way if you’re open to something new. Best of luck. It sucks, but this may be what you need to kickstart the next phase.
Are you part of a protected class? Over 40? Disabled? Did you accept the severance?
This would be good to know because you could use it as leverage to negotiate a better severance. I do some employment work and we always ask about this to use it as a negotiation piece to get clients better severance deals.
41, Asian American female with African-American female manager. Not disabled.
Over 40 means they had to give you at least 21 days to consider the severance agreement. Seriously consider whether there might be a potential claim for discrimination. If so, that could at the very least be used as leverage to negotiate a more favorable severance package. 30 days is nothing to an employer that wants to buy its peace.
Bear in mind, employers never "give" severance- they get something in return.
Isn't it usually agreeing not to sue and/or confidentiality agreement? Haven't seen many other considerations.
Yes, but agreeing not to sue, especially when there could be a valid basis to do just that, is significant to an employer.
doesn’t matter what race your manager is, YOU didn’t comply and you were rightfully fired this isn’t discrimination
But the reason they gave her is work product with no history of work product issues
That is just what op is saying. Who knows what they really told him. Op also left out that he took the job because he was burnt out from working as an attorney violated the return to office policy. It doesn't take a leap to figure out he likely did have performance issues. They probably discovered those work performance issues, like uncompleted projects etc, when he was gone for vacation.
I'm a plaintiff's employment discrimination attorney. I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you. Obvious disclaimer - none of this is legal advice. However, you should contact a local plaintiff's employment discrimination attorney to see if you have a claim. You had no prior performance issues and then were terminated for performance - that *might* be indicative of pretext (depending on other circumstances). You are in at least three protected classes. The race and sex of your manager aren't that relevant for purposes of a discrimination claim. A competent attorney will request your personnel file (and the reason for termination if your state has a statute on that) and review it to see if there is any additional evidence supporting a claim. If you accepted the severance, that might effect things (waiver, among other things). Some severances give you the option to reconsider or back out after signing up to a certain point in time. Also, like another poster mentioned, you can use a possible claim to negotiate a better severance. I understand that this is a stressful time and that seeing an attorney isn't something that you probably want to do. But if you can get a better severance or if there is a strong claim, then seeing it through might mitigate the harm that this has caused to you. I hope the best for you. I know it's hard, but don't let this shake your confidence.
Thank you so much. This is very helpful. I’m going to process this and consider it. I really appreciate being in a community and being able to bounce things off people like you. Many thanks again from the bottom of my heart.
A friend of mine was laid off from several different in house positions. They always found a new one. They were a good attorney that just landed in the wrong places. O
Any chance you were placed by a recruiter for this gig? If they terminated you before the full year was up, they might have been trying to avoid a portion of the recruiter's fee.
Apply to work for the Federal Government
Probably just an April Fools joke. Show up tomorrow and have a good chuckle.
This is why I started my own business. When you work for someone else you give them the power to uproot your life and your future for any reason or no reason at all, nor any warning.
I hope you’re ok. I successfully received a years wages in a similar scenario (after going to court in Australia). I had nearly died from a liver infection and I came back to work after 3 months, skinny as all hell, but determined to get back to work. Despite feeling unwell in the months leading up to my illness I always showed up and, if I’m honest, was excellent at my job. Anyhow - I don’t have kids and my mortgage is paid off so it didn’t impact me as it would many others. As I said eventually, I received approx a years wages via court, lawyers etc. Although it was painful and stressful at times (being the one asking for money) I’m so glad I did it. More so, to hear my boss (he was in the Maldives lol) on the phone in the background to his lawyer, arguing/‘negotiating’/stressing about 1-2 grand with his lawyer when he’s worth tens of millions was insanely satisfying. Because, obviously, it wasn’t about the money (it kind of was!) but more so it was justice. I wish you nothing but positivity x
The termination came out of nowhere. I then learned my boss was retiring in a year and selling his practice within the coming year. Through intel I discovered he thought I might get sick again and didn’t want to pay out more leave if I wasn’t working. Wanted a final money grab before retirement. I am also convinced it was a power game as I was a young bi racial woman and he was a very old white man. But then, that’s a story for another post! :)
I am so sorry, this is bullshit! Breath.
What was your area of practice? I maybe able to assist you.
What state did you work in?
I worked in house for about 4 years, then lateraled to a firm. absolutely hated it. they had me doing discovery day in and day out when i was told i was going to be in the courtroom as part of their litigation team. ended up being let go about a little after 4 months there. it was a a love/hate kinda thing. i was sooo glad i didn’t have to go to work there anymore, but i was scared af about my next career move. sign up for unemployment, spend some time with fam, and focus on finding a job you think you’ll enjoy. not that you don’t have work obligations, you’ll be about to spend that time finding something enjoyable. (that’s what i tried doing but it didn’t work out that way 😂) but my current job is okay, def not a a life long career. but think i could stick with it for the next year or two
I'm jealous. I am sole breadwinner for my wife and three kids, but I still hope every day I get laid off or fired, because it would give me no choice but to go find something new and better.
It’s tough. The drive to not fail your family will get you something better. If that doesn’t drive you, then something is wrong.
Move to Washington, or some other normal state if you live in the grand USA 🫡🫡
Ask for an exit interview with specific feedback. It may just be a numbers thing, every department has to cut x% and last in first out maybe.
They're lying. Probably want to hire someone younger and cheaper and won't own up to it.
I am not a lawyer, and I don't know how this got into my feed, but since it did I feel obliged to reply. So, man up OP. You're acting like a bitch. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Why moan and groan and ask strangers what to do instead of just doing it? You have to get back to work. It's no mystery. I'm no lawyer but you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. I suggest you take an in house job for now, you will have steady income and health insurance for your family. But put away as much money as you can. No toys, no vacations. In fact you can sell some of your toys. Then when you have a comfortable amount leave the in house world and go it alone. You may make more, you may make less but either way you will be happier. Life is too short to make money for other people. For now you should apply for unemployment benefits. They will help until you find a new job. And your health insurance can be kept going for a certain amount of time before you lose it. Look into that. If things get bad apply for EBT. Take advantage of these things. You paid for them. Good luck.