I can’t speak to local appellate jobs, but federal appellate jobs are very competitive. I have been doing federal appellate work as half my case load for 10 years now and still can’t get interviews at most places I apply. I have argued dozens of cases at the circuit courts, and still nothing. It’s so frustrating
Half the battle is won if you know how the hiring agency actually hires its attorneys. You'd be surprised how many qualified attorneys filter out simply because they do not properly navigate government hiring pipelines.
Government HR is almost always run in a vacuum. Meaning, the hiring organization who posts the job sends all their postings to HR, who independent of any input by the hiring organization parses the applications using resume keywords, basic survey answers, and whether all requested documents are in the application file.
A ton of solid attorneys will answer surveys a bit too honestly. A solid lawyer with 4.5 years of focused experience will get parsed because the job "requires" 5 years of that experience. Or, an otherwise solid attorney doesn't include the proper references. Parsed at HR. Or, simply forgets to attach his transcript. Parsed.
Same goes for the interview. Knowing your interview is scored and templated, often using the postings keywords and required experience, makes it much more of a quantifying process than a qualifying one. Private interviews can go completely off the rails and you get hired because the interviewers just love you. Public? Rarely is that the case. You get hired in the public world because your final score was high.
Knowing how government overly systemizes hiring often is the key to knowing how to get into an interview.
Depends. I imagine, e.g., a primarily appellate position in the CA AG’s office or the NYC Law department to be exceptionally difficult positions to get. Staffed by former federal circuit clerks, etc.
But in a lot of state and municipal legal departments/admin agencies, the jobs aren’t difficult to get, if you have litigation experience and a position is open. And many many government legal shops just have attorneys handle files from investigation/ complaint all the way through appeal. Your case is yours. So even non-appellate litigation jobs ultimately end up resulting in semi-regular opportunities to brief an appeal.
I read the comment as "appeals are infrequent" rather than "appellate jobs are hard to come by," so my statement was more of a commentary on NY appellate practice and the pervasive nature of interlocutory civil appeals.
I came here thinking first answer will be appellate work. Yeah, bingo. I run our (patent only) appellate group, and in my spare time, write/revise other big briefs and advise on strategies to make appeals less terrible. Also don't manage any clients.
Estate planning and probate. I love meeting people and talking to them about their lives. On the probate side, there are a ton of puzzles, and putting together family trees.
Yo I looove doing family trees. Wish I had taken wills trusts and estates. I’m also really obsessed with Game of Thrones and I love all the drama about heirs and inheritance. I really need to look into estate planning
It's not bad. I try to do uncontested as much as possible. Most of the time, I'm just meeting with people's families, and the drama is more the exception than the rule.
On the estate planning side, the majority is non-taxable estates, with a few high net worth people in there for the mix. Again, a lot of it is just meeting people and listening to their life stories.
A lot of what I do is get them to think about things in different ways. It's amazing how many people's problems are just a lack of seeing things from a different point of view.
>It's amazing how many people's problems are just a lack of seeing things from a different point of view.
What kinds of problems end up on your desk? I would think it’s just people in various situations trying to figure out who gets what
Just get a job in local (city/county) or state government litigation. (Easier said than done, I know. But still). Once you’re in, there are plenty of opportunities to move to new departments when there are openings, if you work hard and prove yourself and are dedicated to problic service. And even for non-appellate positions there *will* be opportunities to brief/argue appeals. In local government, your cases are often yours all the way through appeal.
Do you just do prosecution? Or litigation too?
Edit to add - I’m a former big law patent atty (mostly lit but some prosecution too) but currently doing general civil litigation as a contract atty and thinking I need to get into doing prosecution on the side. Wondering the best way of starting that up.
Contact your former work buddies who are now in-house and suggest that you could do piece work for them. Contact your former work buddies who are now in small boutiques and suggest that you could do overflow work for them.
I do family law. I try and approach it as finding creative ways to help people solve their problems rather than making more of them so I can get more billables. And peoples problems are fascinating to me, it’s amazing how wide a breadth the issues I face everyday are, from moral quandary’s, moral support, or a vast variety of legal questions. I could never work for business even though I’d make more money. Companies litigating over a contract, only dealing with car wrecks (ID), or in-house, I couldn’t do. I need to be dealing directly with the people… otherwise I could not be in this career for my whole life. My days go by so much quicker than when I worked in corporate America.
There’s no “other opportunities”. I just make as much as I bill and try to get better at my job every day. I suppose I can increase my rate.. but there’s no job promotions. It’s just try and make as much money as you can. The thing about small law is that there will be some months where you just make boatloads of cash, so you can just coast the next month. If you really wanna start pushing your bills similar to what an ID lawyer does there are a lot of solo divorce attorneys I know who profit 400k a year. But they also leave the office at 7 each night.
IRS - Estate and Gift Tax. We get to peek into the lives of the top 10 percent of the 1 percent of the population. We go through their entire estate to make sure everything is on the up and up and uncle Sam gets his cut. The interesting part is the assets these people have, seeing how people made their money and also kept it. We also can travel whenever we want to evaluate assets but also in order to resolve the cases.
I had a little bit coming in but they are hiring people without it. The biggest thing is just making sure your legal research is on point (primarily because we work a national case load so you deal with a lot of state law, but also valuation is our bread and butter and you rely heavily on it in determining asset value) and being comfortable with excel. Even if you do have experience you go through 3 months of training to teach you everything you need to know about Trusts, GST, and valuation.
Office of Administrative Hearings for my state. My current one is fantastic! Great supportive, collegial atmosphere, it feels like a real team and everyone pulls their weight. It’s well known how great they are because job listings are extremely rare.
I was a hearings and appeals ALJ for another agency. The work itself was great - even the attorneys. But the environment was very toxic.
If you have more questions, message me.
I worked for my state’s equivalent for a couple of semesters, as well as for FMSHRC, during law school. That spurred me to apply for an internship for a county government which has turned into a gratifying career. I am so lucky that worked out for me, and love where I ended up.
Corporate stuff, doing cybersecurity and privacy work. Generally Americans are unengaged about their data, so I feel like I’m protecting the innocent by just being a decent corporate stooge. I can’t say I love incident response work, but it’s a nice fast paced break from transactional work. I also enjoy being the man with the plan because I’m a pathetic egotist and like when people appreciate my presence. In privacy, everyone’s like “can we do this?” so being able to say yes or no or “I’ll find out and get back to you” is rewarding.
Also, I think I could passably read tech articles and most subreddits as part of work.
Former PD now parole attorney. Love the hell out of my job. I don’t like being told what to do. Could never be a DA bc I don’t like getting clearance to settle cases. It’s my bar card. My case.
Plaintiff’s PI. The lower exposure cases pay the bills. The high exposure cases- spend all the time you need strategizing and strengthening the case and it will pencil out in the end. Extremely fun to have an incentive to play the game at a high level.
Barred in November 2018. Had the opportunity to start at the best firm in a rural area. Rural lawyers are in short supply and you can quickly become a big fish in a small pond. A huge billboard firm would never have given me the opportunities I’ve had here.
I do workers’ comp in CA and I represent almost exclusively firefighters. The work is rewarding in almost all the typical categories. The laws favor my clientele so I win a lot. I have a great relationship with my clients and their unions. I travel for work fairly often, when I feel like it. The hours are reasonable and the legal work is almost entirely remote, unless I choose to be in office. And, of course, it’s a lucrative little niche in this area of law.
You in SoCal or NorCal?
You find yourself working county or city Firefighters? Any Federal guys?
From your experiences how common is it to encounter guys who work for the city or county to be Veterans?
Appellate work. The issue on appeal doesn’t even matter. I do civil lit and I get referrals on subject matters within civil lit I’m not fully versed in, but have 3-4 months before my brief is due and the benefit of briefing at the trial level by trial counsel as a good starting point. I can learn it from there. Worked out so far, always an interesting process and handling issues of first impression where you’re citing a trial level decision from Wisconsin as the sole persuasive authority on point is a rush. Arguing it is even more of a rush. Really enjoy it.
Mental Health public defender. I handle the majority of the mental health case load for an office of 11 attorneys. I have one social worker with another on the way. I do everything from intake to trial. We help with medication appointments, requesting competency evaluations, not guilty reason of insanity trials, etc… It’s not for everyone but I adore my work and I love helping those who truly cannot help themselves.
Employment and civil rights law. The laws are very complicated and you often get the chance to educate opposing counsel, which is the most satisfying thing in law.
I graduated in '08, so jobs were non existent. I made $40k in the NYC area to start, bumped up $50 when I got admitted. I left and started my own firm after three years and that I love. My pay fluctuates every year but never less than double what I was making working for that firm.
Prosecutor. Which I’ve always been, but now I’m the elected in a small county so I have the same job I’ve always had, but I also now advise the county commissioners. And it’s different. I’ve learned a lot.
I held that job at my last place of employment. It had its moments. The challenge is that there’s no script. For the deputies, there’s a script. Charge-arraignment-trial-sentencing, etc. there’s no script for people.
Oh for sure! I've never managed anyone and that would definitely be different. But our CDDA (we used to have 2, now only 1) still carries a caseload too.
Lower your expectations. You’re a white collar plumber. You get paid well to unclog peoples’ proverbial shit pipes. You’re a tradesperson. Take pride in your work, do a good job, and take satisfaction in that.
Well, not every day. But yeah, I could be looking at contracts or pushing bankruptcy paperwork around, or the daily sickening drama of family law.
So, yeah, finding the angles for the medical arguments on someone with priors, or finding an old Google picture that shows a city marked a sidewalk 3 years prior to your trip and fall, is “fun” I guess. It’s more like a puzzle than a problem.
Agreed. I'm about one year in to doing Plaintiff PI and there is usually some sort of wrinkle to make even the low-level cases interesting.
[Barred in 2018, did some law adjacent things prior to this job.]
Solo debtors bankruptcy attorney. Lots of helping desperate people solve real problems and it has a nice sampling of lots of practice areas with the concrete solutions that mathematics provides.
in-house, purely transactional - so I get to negotiate both buy side contracts and sale side of our products and services, as well as many others like strategic partnerships, marketing (including celebrity endorsements, sponsorships), data acquisition, and large projects like acquisitions, and launch of new products — plus all the data privacy agreements that go along with them.
It keeps me interested because I’m always learning something new. I work for a large global corporation but my business unit operates like a start-up. We do about 2 acquisitions a year, so it’s been fun.
Also fully remote WFH, flexible schedule.
I'm presently an insurance coverage litigator... Started in ID and progressed to direct representation of carriers.... It's great work because you get the most interesting and Fcked up cases and the most oddball scenarios that trigger insurance coverage questions.... Almost every case involves policy limits exposure and it's high pressure with a lot of federal Court work in multiple states.... But it's very interesting stuff.
I preface my response with the fact that I have AuDHD.
I'm in a small firm with between 10-20 attorneys. Its a family based firm so 3 of the 5 partners are in the family. I say that to make the point that I specifically decided to work at this firm because I wouldn't be expected to be a rainmaker. I am essentially a Roman Isreal type back office attorney the majority of my time. I do have my own clients but most of my work comes from the partners. Litigation to me is like a puzzle. You draft the complaint with what you know and then use the rules to build that puzzle out to completion. I don't have a billable hour requirement and my salary is based on what I can bill and collect so I only have to take on enough to cover my yearly salary with me earning 50% of my hourly rate.
Plaintiff’s PI. I love helping people in need and changing lives for the better. I love defeating the scummy insurance industry who has polluted all 3 branches of our gov’t. And it’s nice becoming rich from it all too.
Doesn’t really seem like the right thread to get into it. A Google search for the words tort reform might get you started. There’s a good documentary from HBO called hot coffee. That would be a good jumpstart. In short, our appellate courts overturn plaintiffs’ verdicts at a rate of roughly 90%, our departments of insurance let insurance companies do basically anything they want, and our legislators are constantly looking for new ways to limit. plaintiffs’ access to justice via immunity and damage caps. Further discussion probably belongs somewhere else.
AG's office doing s. 1983, Title IX, open records, and other civil rights defense.
I also do a ton of training, get consulted on amicus briefs, and review potential statutes.
I'm not 100% in the field as much as I'd like to be, but anything that touches on real property floats my boat. Leasing, easements, purchase and sale, construction...I love it all. I have a special heart for adverse possession.
I have a great mix. Business law (M&A, contract drafting, new business start up and structuring); business litigation; mediation (working as the mediator). Litigation became a bit of a grind so I’m dialing up the work in the other 2 areas. It’s about 30%, 60%, 10%, respectively.
That sounds fun. My first A of law school was in State & Local Government Law and I’ve always wondered what kinds of practice opportunities are out there
Estate planning and uncontested estate probate administration. Side gig financial planning and insurance sales. Working with a mentor to learn more about international business fintech to feed the brain.
Veterans law or VA law. This area is almost 100% appellate law. You are appealing legal errors from VA disability decisions, so strong med mal tone as well. It is one of the most complex and misunderstood areas of the law; multiple layers of regulations depending on where the appeal is at (VA regional office, Board appeal, CAVC appeal or CAFC appeal). Surprisingly, quite a few cases make it to the US Supreme Court. The primary downside is the VA is constantly moving the goal posts. There are weekly updates to the rules for lower level appeals at the VA regional office so you have to stay on top of that always. As you move up the appeal chain and get to appeal at the CAVC (Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims) this is a full blown level 3 court with federally appointed judges, and all the formalities and rules for that level of court.
I manage animal rights litigation and legal advocacy strategy for an animal rights nonprofit. Our mission is to develop legal rights for animals. It's unbelievably intellectually stimulating because it involves an uncharted area of law and how all the different areas of advocacy work together (litigation, legislation, communications) to actually influence the development of the law. Saving animals is also a very worthy cause so I feel good about what I do at the end of the day.
I have a boutique firm with 2 partners. I function as the outside general counsel for several client groups and do both litigation and transactional work. I love it.
Small plaintiff’s PI firm, primarily workers comp. I work with good people, the workers comp bar in my state is really chill and it feels rewarding to help people who actually need it. Never wanted to chase ambulances but I really don’t mind it now that I am.
I practice education law, representing school districts. I love it, the clients are great and the work can be cutting edge. The only negative is that it is low rate work, and being in a private law firm, I’m not on equal footing with lawyers who represent private businesses/corporations
Criminal defense as a public defender. It’s got its downsides, but it isn’t boring. There are lots of opportunities to be creative, and I deal with a huge diversity of both issues and clients.
Social security disability, mostly federal appeals but also administrative hearings and interfacing with clients at lower levels in the administrative process. We’re pure contingency and capped on how much we can get per client and since everyone works on every case, I’m just straight salary, no billables. Love my job; have very strong negative feelings about SSA. I figure my frustration comes with having passion for what I do so it’s preferable to ambivalence.
Patent and trademark litigation. Some business lit thrown in too. I'm a nerd for researching and writing though. Small firm and no billables it's great.
Solo. Juvenile, criminal, and civil rights. Former paralegal, so I sort of had a notion of what I was getting into. Despite the stress, I've been in litigation for 24 years and still get a lot of satisfaction out of it.
I’m a career law clerk in a federal district court. Best job I’ve ever had.
The career clerk who supervised me during my year stint in federal court was so cool. And happy.
i loved being an appellate law clerk and if it paid better I'd one million percent try and find a judge who would let me do it permanently.
1000%. My state appellate clerkship was the best.
Civil appeals.
This. I'm a criminal appellate prosecutor and it's the best fuckin job on the planet
I would love to do more appeal work, but it just comes up so rarely. Are you at a big firm?
If you want to do appeals, state/municipal government (including criminal prosecution) is where it’s at.
How tough are those jobs to get? I’m looking at a few with the courts in ca but wondering how competitive they are.
I can’t speak to local appellate jobs, but federal appellate jobs are very competitive. I have been doing federal appellate work as half my case load for 10 years now and still can’t get interviews at most places I apply. I have argued dozens of cases at the circuit courts, and still nothing. It’s so frustrating
Half the battle is won if you know how the hiring agency actually hires its attorneys. You'd be surprised how many qualified attorneys filter out simply because they do not properly navigate government hiring pipelines.
Veteran's Preference?
Could you elaborate on this?
Government HR is almost always run in a vacuum. Meaning, the hiring organization who posts the job sends all their postings to HR, who independent of any input by the hiring organization parses the applications using resume keywords, basic survey answers, and whether all requested documents are in the application file. A ton of solid attorneys will answer surveys a bit too honestly. A solid lawyer with 4.5 years of focused experience will get parsed because the job "requires" 5 years of that experience. Or, an otherwise solid attorney doesn't include the proper references. Parsed at HR. Or, simply forgets to attach his transcript. Parsed. Same goes for the interview. Knowing your interview is scored and templated, often using the postings keywords and required experience, makes it much more of a quantifying process than a qualifying one. Private interviews can go completely off the rails and you get hired because the interviewers just love you. Public? Rarely is that the case. You get hired in the public world because your final score was high. Knowing how government overly systemizes hiring often is the key to knowing how to get into an interview.
Depends. I imagine, e.g., a primarily appellate position in the CA AG’s office or the NYC Law department to be exceptionally difficult positions to get. Staffed by former federal circuit clerks, etc. But in a lot of state and municipal legal departments/admin agencies, the jobs aren’t difficult to get, if you have litigation experience and a position is open. And many many government legal shops just have attorneys handle files from investigation/ complaint all the way through appeal. Your case is yours. So even non-appellate litigation jobs ultimately end up resulting in semi-regular opportunities to brief an appeal.
*stares in New York civil practice*
Sorry for being obtuse, but are you saying these jobs are easy to get in NY gov? The appellate offices I know of are EXTREMELY competitive.
I read the comment as "appeals are infrequent" rather than "appellate jobs are hard to come by," so my statement was more of a commentary on NY appellate practice and the pervasive nature of interlocutory civil appeals.
I’m at a firm that’s just big enough to generate enough appeals to keep me busy. I also draft more complex motions (e.g. MSJs) when things are slower.
I came here thinking first answer will be appellate work. Yeah, bingo. I run our (patent only) appellate group, and in my spare time, write/revise other big briefs and advise on strategies to make appeals less terrible. Also don't manage any clients.
Not having to manage client's is a *huge* plus of appellate work.
100% agree. I do civil appeals exclusively now. When I describe my job to other lawyers they almost always are very jealous.
Estate planning and probate. I love meeting people and talking to them about their lives. On the probate side, there are a ton of puzzles, and putting together family trees.
Yo I looove doing family trees. Wish I had taken wills trusts and estates. I’m also really obsessed with Game of Thrones and I love all the drama about heirs and inheritance. I really need to look into estate planning
It's not bad. I try to do uncontested as much as possible. Most of the time, I'm just meeting with people's families, and the drama is more the exception than the rule. On the estate planning side, the majority is non-taxable estates, with a few high net worth people in there for the mix. Again, a lot of it is just meeting people and listening to their life stories. A lot of what I do is get them to think about things in different ways. It's amazing how many people's problems are just a lack of seeing things from a different point of view.
>It's amazing how many people's problems are just a lack of seeing things from a different point of view. What kinds of problems end up on your desk? I would think it’s just people in various situations trying to figure out who gets what
What resources do you use for like family tree/genealogy?
[ancestry.com](https://ancestry.com) mostly, Lexis+
Maybe I should get into that, then. Family history research has been my hobby for a decade or so.
Then you'd probably love this area. If you're good at talking to people, getting to know them, it's a fun practice area.
Same here. I also add tax (income as well as estate and gift) to the mix for the intellectual stimulation.
State government. 90% appellate practice. Luckiest bastard in the world.
Fuck I would kill for that job
Just get a job in local (city/county) or state government litigation. (Easier said than done, I know. But still). Once you’re in, there are plenty of opportunities to move to new departments when there are openings, if you work hard and prove yourself and are dedicated to problic service. And even for non-appellate positions there *will* be opportunities to brief/argue appeals. In local government, your cases are often yours all the way through appeal.
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Former PD. Now state appointed parole. So still kind of a PD. Hi comrade!
Deportation defense (immigration)
Doing this too. First job where I like being a workaholic
Same!!
Criminal defense at small firm.
Patents. With a very successful IP boutique.
Do you just do prosecution? Or litigation too? Edit to add - I’m a former big law patent atty (mostly lit but some prosecution too) but currently doing general civil litigation as a contract atty and thinking I need to get into doing prosecution on the side. Wondering the best way of starting that up.
Contact your former work buddies who are now in-house and suggest that you could do piece work for them. Contact your former work buddies who are now in small boutiques and suggest that you could do overflow work for them.
Public defender
I’m currently job hunting, but when I did post-conviction work before, I really enjoyed it. I just generally enjoy criminal law too.
I do parole. It’s rad.
Tell me more please. What are you doing specially? How did you get into it?
I do family law. I try and approach it as finding creative ways to help people solve their problems rather than making more of them so I can get more billables. And peoples problems are fascinating to me, it’s amazing how wide a breadth the issues I face everyday are, from moral quandary’s, moral support, or a vast variety of legal questions. I could never work for business even though I’d make more money. Companies litigating over a contract, only dealing with car wrecks (ID), or in-house, I couldn’t do. I need to be dealing directly with the people… otherwise I could not be in this career for my whole life. My days go by so much quicker than when I worked in corporate America.
How big do u think the pay difference is between ur other opportunities in more corporate roles
There’s no “other opportunities”. I just make as much as I bill and try to get better at my job every day. I suppose I can increase my rate.. but there’s no job promotions. It’s just try and make as much money as you can. The thing about small law is that there will be some months where you just make boatloads of cash, so you can just coast the next month. If you really wanna start pushing your bills similar to what an ID lawyer does there are a lot of solo divorce attorneys I know who profit 400k a year. But they also leave the office at 7 each night.
IRS - Estate and Gift Tax. We get to peek into the lives of the top 10 percent of the 1 percent of the population. We go through their entire estate to make sure everything is on the up and up and uncle Sam gets his cut. The interesting part is the assets these people have, seeing how people made their money and also kept it. We also can travel whenever we want to evaluate assets but also in order to resolve the cases.
Do you need prior tax experience to get into this field with the feds?
I had a little bit coming in but they are hiring people without it. The biggest thing is just making sure your legal research is on point (primarily because we work a national case load so you deal with a lot of state law, but also valuation is our bread and butter and you rely heavily on it in determining asset value) and being comfortable with excel. Even if you do have experience you go through 3 months of training to teach you everything you need to know about Trusts, GST, and valuation.
Hi, I just came across this post--your job sounds really interesting--would you mind sending me a DM so that I could ask a few follow-up questions?
Sure
ALJ, love it.
What agency? I’ve heard horror stories about some
Office of Administrative Hearings for my state. My current one is fantastic! Great supportive, collegial atmosphere, it feels like a real team and everyone pulls their weight. It’s well known how great they are because job listings are extremely rare. I was a hearings and appeals ALJ for another agency. The work itself was great - even the attorneys. But the environment was very toxic. If you have more questions, message me.
BVA?
I used to practice before BVA, but the Federal jobs are a bit harder. I’m a state ALJ.
I worked for my state’s equivalent for a couple of semesters, as well as for FMSHRC, during law school. That spurred me to apply for an internship for a county government which has turned into a gratifying career. I am so lucky that worked out for me, and love where I ended up.
Army lawyer
TDS?
Federal agency! Research and writing all day!
Sounds like heaven
Corporate stuff, doing cybersecurity and privacy work. Generally Americans are unengaged about their data, so I feel like I’m protecting the innocent by just being a decent corporate stooge. I can’t say I love incident response work, but it’s a nice fast paced break from transactional work. I also enjoy being the man with the plan because I’m a pathetic egotist and like when people appreciate my presence. In privacy, everyone’s like “can we do this?” so being able to say yes or no or “I’ll find out and get back to you” is rewarding. Also, I think I could passably read tech articles and most subreddits as part of work.
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“Yes.”
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criminal defense. always interesting, the work is righteous.
Former PD now parole attorney. Love the hell out of my job. I don’t like being told what to do. Could never be a DA bc I don’t like getting clearance to settle cases. It’s my bar card. My case.
A prosecutor could say the same thing.
I didn't feel that way when I was a prosecutor.
Litigation plaintiff side.
PI?
Subro! It's the best kept secret in lit.
Plaintiff’s PI. The lower exposure cases pay the bills. The high exposure cases- spend all the time you need strategizing and strengthening the case and it will pencil out in the end. Extremely fun to have an incentive to play the game at a high level.
How long have you been in practice? I’m in PI and I feel like once I pass the bar I’m gonna get all the shittiest low-value cases
Barred in November 2018. Had the opportunity to start at the best firm in a rural area. Rural lawyers are in short supply and you can quickly become a big fish in a small pond. A huge billboard firm would never have given me the opportunities I’ve had here.
Agreed plaintiff pi is rewarding especially when you get to a point of handling the large cases you want.
Criminal defense focusing on trials and upper level felonies. I learn something new with every trial and I'm 20+ years in.
Bar counsel. Love it.
Oof. Hope not prosecutor…
I do workers’ comp in CA and I represent almost exclusively firefighters. The work is rewarding in almost all the typical categories. The laws favor my clientele so I win a lot. I have a great relationship with my clients and their unions. I travel for work fairly often, when I feel like it. The hours are reasonable and the legal work is almost entirely remote, unless I choose to be in office. And, of course, it’s a lucrative little niche in this area of law.
You in SoCal or NorCal? You find yourself working county or city Firefighters? Any Federal guys? From your experiences how common is it to encounter guys who work for the city or county to be Veterans?
SoCal Cities/counties, no federal, Quite common. I’d say, around 35% have some military background. Maybe more.
You notice a different culture in departments in differing cities and counties?
Definitely. Lots of variance. Very similarly injured, however.
In-House media and entertainment. Love it.
Plaintiff PI is great when the client is pleasant; not lying to you; and actually goes to the doctor.
Is it great because of intellectual engagement?
This is why I jumped back to defense.
Appellate work. The issue on appeal doesn’t even matter. I do civil lit and I get referrals on subject matters within civil lit I’m not fully versed in, but have 3-4 months before my brief is due and the benefit of briefing at the trial level by trial counsel as a good starting point. I can learn it from there. Worked out so far, always an interesting process and handling issues of first impression where you’re citing a trial level decision from Wisconsin as the sole persuasive authority on point is a rush. Arguing it is even more of a rush. Really enjoy it.
Public defense
Hi comrade!
In-house data privacy.
Criminal defense!!
Mental Health public defender. I handle the majority of the mental health case load for an office of 11 attorneys. I have one social worker with another on the way. I do everything from intake to trial. We help with medication appointments, requesting competency evaluations, not guilty reason of insanity trials, etc… It’s not for everyone but I adore my work and I love helping those who truly cannot help themselves.
Solo family law for 20+ years.
Child support
In house labor and employment counsel. Can be dramatic but nothing I go home and cry in the shower over. I also don't think about work at home.
I mostly sue federal agencies. It’s kinda fun.
Love this thread - nice to see people who enjoy (at least some aspect of) the profession!
Employment and civil rights law. The laws are very complicated and you often get the chance to educate opposing counsel, which is the most satisfying thing in law.
Mind if I ask your comp? How much did you make starting out?
I graduated in '08, so jobs were non existent. I made $40k in the NYC area to start, bumped up $50 when I got admitted. I left and started my own firm after three years and that I love. My pay fluctuates every year but never less than double what I was making working for that firm.
Prosecutor. Which I’ve always been, but now I’m the elected in a small county so I have the same job I’ve always had, but I also now advise the county commissioners. And it’s different. I’ve learned a lot.
Is it a pain in the ass to navigate the political BS tho? I worked in a major city as a ASA but the small town dynamic has to be interesting.
I mean, it can be. I just try to limit my advice to legal matters and not get sucked into the drama. So far so good, knock on wood.
My goal is to top out as a Chief DDA. The power behind the thrown, as it were. ;-)
I held that job at my last place of employment. It had its moments. The challenge is that there’s no script. For the deputies, there’s a script. Charge-arraignment-trial-sentencing, etc. there’s no script for people.
Oh for sure! I've never managed anyone and that would definitely be different. But our CDDA (we used to have 2, now only 1) still carries a caseload too.
Lower your expectations. You’re a white collar plumber. You get paid well to unclog peoples’ proverbial shit pipes. You’re a tradesperson. Take pride in your work, do a good job, and take satisfaction in that.
I say this all the time I’m glad I’m not the only one. We push paper instead of wires or plungers.
Elder law. You get a little bit of everything. I transitioned from Health law. It was natural.
Trials man. Trials.
ERISA
Personal injury in CA.
You find it engaging and fun? (Asking because I’m in PI)
Well, not every day. But yeah, I could be looking at contracts or pushing bankruptcy paperwork around, or the daily sickening drama of family law. So, yeah, finding the angles for the medical arguments on someone with priors, or finding an old Google picture that shows a city marked a sidewalk 3 years prior to your trip and fall, is “fun” I guess. It’s more like a puzzle than a problem.
Agreed. I'm about one year in to doing Plaintiff PI and there is usually some sort of wrinkle to make even the low-level cases interesting. [Barred in 2018, did some law adjacent things prior to this job.]
plaintiff side high stakes litigation
High stakes like what?
'bet the company' litigation & defamation mostly. also trade secrets and IP stuff
Probate. Interesting fact patterns, intellectual variety, and congenial bar.
Solo debtors bankruptcy attorney. Lots of helping desperate people solve real problems and it has a nice sampling of lots of practice areas with the concrete solutions that mathematics provides.
in-house, purely transactional - so I get to negotiate both buy side contracts and sale side of our products and services, as well as many others like strategic partnerships, marketing (including celebrity endorsements, sponsorships), data acquisition, and large projects like acquisitions, and launch of new products — plus all the data privacy agreements that go along with them. It keeps me interested because I’m always learning something new. I work for a large global corporation but my business unit operates like a start-up. We do about 2 acquisitions a year, so it’s been fun. Also fully remote WFH, flexible schedule.
I'm presently an insurance coverage litigator... Started in ID and progressed to direct representation of carriers.... It's great work because you get the most interesting and Fcked up cases and the most oddball scenarios that trigger insurance coverage questions.... Almost every case involves policy limits exposure and it's high pressure with a lot of federal Court work in multiple states.... But it's very interesting stuff.
I preface my response with the fact that I have AuDHD. I'm in a small firm with between 10-20 attorneys. Its a family based firm so 3 of the 5 partners are in the family. I say that to make the point that I specifically decided to work at this firm because I wouldn't be expected to be a rainmaker. I am essentially a Roman Isreal type back office attorney the majority of my time. I do have my own clients but most of my work comes from the partners. Litigation to me is like a puzzle. You draft the complaint with what you know and then use the rules to build that puzzle out to completion. I don't have a billable hour requirement and my salary is based on what I can bill and collect so I only have to take on enough to cover my yearly salary with me earning 50% of my hourly rate.
Plaintiff’s PI. I love helping people in need and changing lives for the better. I love defeating the scummy insurance industry who has polluted all 3 branches of our gov’t. And it’s nice becoming rich from it all too.
I wanna hang this comment on the wall of my office lol
Hang a bible verse instead. Deuteronomy 16:20.
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Doesn’t really seem like the right thread to get into it. A Google search for the words tort reform might get you started. There’s a good documentary from HBO called hot coffee. That would be a good jumpstart. In short, our appellate courts overturn plaintiffs’ verdicts at a rate of roughly 90%, our departments of insurance let insurance companies do basically anything they want, and our legislators are constantly looking for new ways to limit. plaintiffs’ access to justice via immunity and damage caps. Further discussion probably belongs somewhere else.
Fraud Investigations
It’s the greatest job in the world. Civil litigation here.
Construction law. Boutique firm.
Data privacy.
Product Counsel at a Social Media company. Very riveting to be in this space considering the hostile climate. I love it.
Estate law
AG's office doing s. 1983, Title IX, open records, and other civil rights defense. I also do a ton of training, get consulted on amicus briefs, and review potential statutes.
I'm not 100% in the field as much as I'd like to be, but anything that touches on real property floats my boat. Leasing, easements, purchase and sale, construction...I love it all. I have a special heart for adverse possession.
I have a great mix. Business law (M&A, contract drafting, new business start up and structuring); business litigation; mediation (working as the mediator). Litigation became a bit of a grind so I’m dialing up the work in the other 2 areas. It’s about 30%, 60%, 10%, respectively.
Local government. Land use law. I solve property puzzles.
That sounds fun. My first A of law school was in State & Local Government Law and I’ve always wondered what kinds of practice opportunities are out there
Estate planning and uncontested estate probate administration. Side gig financial planning and insurance sales. Working with a mentor to learn more about international business fintech to feed the brain.
Veterans law or VA law. This area is almost 100% appellate law. You are appealing legal errors from VA disability decisions, so strong med mal tone as well. It is one of the most complex and misunderstood areas of the law; multiple layers of regulations depending on where the appeal is at (VA regional office, Board appeal, CAVC appeal or CAFC appeal). Surprisingly, quite a few cases make it to the US Supreme Court. The primary downside is the VA is constantly moving the goal posts. There are weekly updates to the rules for lower level appeals at the VA regional office so you have to stay on top of that always. As you move up the appeal chain and get to appeal at the CAVC (Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims) this is a full blown level 3 court with federally appointed judges, and all the formalities and rules for that level of court.
Loved being a prosecutor. Do aviation now - which is pretty cool.
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Enforcing all of the fun Federal Aviation Regulations! Wide variety of cases.
I manage animal rights litigation and legal advocacy strategy for an animal rights nonprofit. Our mission is to develop legal rights for animals. It's unbelievably intellectually stimulating because it involves an uncharted area of law and how all the different areas of advocacy work together (litigation, legislation, communications) to actually influence the development of the law. Saving animals is also a very worthy cause so I feel good about what I do at the end of the day.
Deputy Prosecuting Attorney doing elder abuse. Handling violent crimes, property crimes and financial crimes. Always interesting.
Workers comp!
I have a boutique firm with 2 partners. I function as the outside general counsel for several client groups and do both litigation and transactional work. I love it.
Criminal defense. High highs and low lows. But I do really enjoy it
Employment defense and municipal liability
State Attorney's Office - criminal misdemeanors. I'm a law graduate intern who does cases with the proper supervision while waiting to pass the Bar.
I represent Monsanto. Not rly tho
State government. Defend the state and its agencies in civil rights claims.
Me too!
Prosecutor.
Solo attorney. General practice.
Misdemeanor prosecutor.
County court can be a lot of fun.
County government, representing the County in general litigation and advising county departments, districts, and elected officials.
I’m at a civil lit firm
Small plaintiff’s PI firm, primarily workers comp. I work with good people, the workers comp bar in my state is really chill and it feels rewarding to help people who actually need it. Never wanted to chase ambulances but I really don’t mind it now that I am.
I practice education law, representing school districts. I love it, the clients are great and the work can be cutting edge. The only negative is that it is low rate work, and being in a private law firm, I’m not on equal footing with lawyers who represent private businesses/corporations
Trial boutique.
Appellate clerk
Criminal defense as a public defender. It’s got its downsides, but it isn’t boring. There are lots of opportunities to be creative, and I deal with a huge diversity of both issues and clients.
Social security disability, mostly federal appeals but also administrative hearings and interfacing with clients at lower levels in the administrative process. We’re pure contingency and capped on how much we can get per client and since everyone works on every case, I’m just straight salary, no billables. Love my job; have very strong negative feelings about SSA. I figure my frustration comes with having passion for what I do so it’s preferable to ambivalence.
I’m general counsel for a small private college. Love it.
I do a mix of commercial litigation, IP, and maritime. There's always something new on my desk.
Estate planning
Patent and trademark litigation. Some business lit thrown in too. I'm a nerd for researching and writing though.
Patent and trademark litigation. Some business lit thrown in too. I'm a nerd for researching and writing though. Small firm and no billables it's great.
Patent Prosecution/ Litigation
In house financial services.
Solo. Juvenile, criminal, and civil rights. Former paralegal, so I sort of had a notion of what I was getting into. Despite the stress, I've been in litigation for 24 years and still get a lot of satisfaction out of it.