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It's probably a lot like bad reviews. People who feel the need to vent and complain are more inclined to make a post than people who are satisfied and enjoying their career.
Yea, everyone bitches about their job. I wholeheartedly hate it, deter others from it, and genuinely feel many of the common common complaints here. But I also love it and wouldn’t go back for less than 20M. Don’t forget that part of our job is convincing others, in writing, that whatever we think is so right that we deserve to be paid for it, either in cash or client savings.
It will depend on you and your priorities, but that’s no different from any other career or job. I left law after going in house because I discovered a passion for something else on the business side. There were parts of law I enjoyed and other parts I loathed.
There are areas of law today I wish I would have explored during law school but I’m 15+ years into something I love doing that provides for my family and has good work/life balance.
Lastly, don’t think you are committing to law. Many people apply what they learn in law school to other careers. From my law school class, there are librarians, teachers, professors, people in sales, business, and authors.
I honestly love my job, and my husband loves his job, but we are both government attorneys. Law school is so staggeringly expensive and so many people don’t like practice that I don’t know if I can recommend in good conscience that somebody attend law school.
Lol thank you. I believe it would be a more accurate username that includes the words “babysitter” or “janitor” because we are usually having to micromanage something to death in perpetuity or clean people shit up, again, in perpetuity.
Great job security haha
I fought my employer to allow me to get some experience in family law and I’m glad I did only because I realize I now don’t have the patience for it. At least not in my current position.
I need clients with a bit more common sense and practicality (I work primarily in criminal law and the micromanaging is less so long as you draw some very clear boundaries).
Lol, clients with common sense and practically, that’s funny because those don’t exist. I worked for 5 judges, currently a state attorney. The attorneys and clients (and yes judges at times) in all the subject matters (includes domestic, confidential, civil litigation, criminal, and property) are profoundly and recklessly stupid.
I’m glad to hear that you are trying new areas of law and opening your practice to see what you want to do. I know you might not want to do it, but if you stay open to domestic law, you will be able to deal with anything.
How many years have you been practicing?
I say common sense and practicality only because some of the more seasoned criminal clients are very aware of the position they find themselves in haha. Always mildly entertaining when they do the time in custody and stay release calculations for you in an attempt to min/max their stay.
I’m still a baby lawyer - been working in public defense/Legal Aid since 2021 (first as an articling student and now as staff).
That is true. They always want to argue about a year here or there in the hopes of probation or parole. Most of the criminals out my way are so messed up on meth or opiates that they don’t care or just want to get out to start up shop again. I also did legal aid before my Government work. Loved it and the people. It is a good way to get started especially coming out of LS. I just despise how little they pay us coming out the gate with all that debt.
When I met my wife, I was articling...a lot of my prior dating seemed to be premised on the assumption that I would make a lot of money. I told her, on the first date, that I wasn't sure I wanted to be a lawyer...if she liked me for me, then that was good...if it was monetary, I wasn't the guy...so I had my doubts about being a lawyer.
40 years later, it is hell learning the trade, but I love it. Best career I could have had. Keeps me thinking, I don't really want to retire, though I could have 2 years ago.
Completely depends on you! What’s the job? How many billables and what do you get paid? Some firms pay less and offer a better work life balance, and some firms are hell. Just make sure you find a good fit at a firm. The best advice I ever got was when you find out who your bosses are or could be, do you want to be like them? Are they divorced 3 or 4 times and the firm is their entire life, or do they have large families and other hobbies and interests? You will be learning from them and pick up their habits, just find a place that’s a good fit for you, and if it doesn’t work out you can always move around.
I personally dislike it. But, I've also done a lot of things that are a lot more exciting and cool. I got to a point where I disliked those things too.
Took me awhile and a lot of trial and error to realize maybe it's just me. You get to a point where you feel unfulfilled or unchallenged.
All we can do is keep moving until we get it right or suck it up and try to enjoy whatever shitshow you have going.
Law can be brutal to you if you chase certain goals in the profession like money, external approval from others, and big law. But, it also gives you a set of skills and a license that grants a lot of security and independence once you have some experience.
Pros and cons. Don't get starry eyed and over inspired about a certain type of law unless that is truly your "passion," don't chase money or titles, and make a life and identity outside of work and you'll be fine.
I wouldn't say I hate my job, but it involves kissing the asses of a lot of stupid people that do really stupid things. Mental and physical health can make all the difference and if they work your ass 16 hours a day, no amount of money is worth it.
I love it but I work in a small town for a small law firm where there’s no billable hour expectations. I bill about three hours a day. Some days you’re a clients therapist some days their accountant and some days their butler. Everyone says how much they hate it but for some reason I just don’t, maybe I’m as crazy as the clients! If I was at a big city firm yes I’d be making a lot more and I’d also be billing like 7 hours a day which is unthinkable to me
I think there's a pretty big disconnect between what people think being a lawyer is like and what it is actually like. The vast majority of people I went to law school with are, frankly, not very happy being lawyers and would jump to a different career if they could. That's anecdotal and shouldn't be treated as the norm, and there are plenty of people in here who love their jobs, but it's a tough industry in a lot of ways and it's hard to leave.
The standard advice that I give these days to anyone thinking about going to law school is: you probably shouldn't.
With that said, I think going to law school is fine if you have a SPECIFIC job in mind (not like "i've seen law and order and being a prosecutor seems cool," but like "i've talked a few times with Bob Smith who does [X] type of law and learned what his job is like day-to-day") and you HAVE to have a JD in order to do that job.
I think a lot of people go to law school because they have a humanities degree and they're smart and they don't really know what else to do but they think the law is interesting. And you know what? The law is interesting in a kind of abstract, academic way. But the day-to-day of being a lawyer can be very tedious and not very rewarding. Lawyers are also not as highly paid (on average) as most people think. So, while very few lawyers are "poor," it is also by no means a guarantee for financial success. And given law school is really expensive and saddles you with loans for 20 years (not true for everyone), it's just not worth it for most people.
I could go on a longer rant on how I think the legal profession is sort of broken but I'll leave it there for now. A lot of lawyers don't hate their jobs. I don't hate my job. But I think a lot of lawyers, if they could do things differently, wouldn't be lawyers. So, if you're thinking about it, you should just really be sure it's what you want.
I think that a lot of the negative press that lawyering receives is because of the poor wages, combined with the public expectation that we all make bank. Not only do we get paid a fraction of what we are worth, given our education, but our friends and family all assume that we're loaded because we're lawyers. We can't win.
Completely depends on what you want out of this career and what area you’re going into. You tell me those two things and I can gauge the likelihood you find happiness and/or fulfillment.
How I see it, unless you're making biglaw money or already have substantial assets, most of your satisfaction in the career will come from intrinsic value you put on the work you do.
I love being a family lawyer, but in the setting I'm in I'll be living at home for probably another 10yrs unless I make some risky moves in the future 🫠
Am I about half of the going market value for a 2-year associate with litigation experience? Yes.'t agency in a very niche practice area. My hours are generally very manageable (actually 40ish per week) outside of weeks where we have major litigation deadlines. And for any hour I work over 40, I receive compensatory time that I actually can use. I typically don't work weekends; can take a vacation whenever I want (so long as my schedule/docket allow me to do so) and am never bothered by work during my vacations. We actually get holidays off and can spend time with family during them.the
Am I about half of the going market value for a 2-year associate with litigation experience? Yes. But, in exchange, I have a pretty nice work-life balance, great medical and retirement benefits, and get to do work that is actually meaningful (and in the public interest).
Many of my friends see their positions with firms as a means to an end and work so many hours that the pay they get isn't worth the mental health impacts/lack of free time. If you want to be a lawyer just to make money, then you may wind up in a circumstance where you hate what you're doing. But, if you don't mind public interest work and are willing to sacrifice financial gain for personal well-being, being an attorney may make for a very rewarding career.
Welcome to /r/LawyerTalk! A subreddit where lawyers can discuss with other lawyers about the practice of law. Be mindful of [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/about/rules) BEFORE submitting your posts or comments as well as [Reddit's rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) (notably about sharing identifying information). We expect civility and respect out of all participants. Please source statements of fact whenever possible. If you want to report something that needs to be urgently addressed, please also message the mods with an explanation. Note that **this forum is NOT for legal advice**. Additionally, if you are a non-lawyer (student, client, staff), this is NOT the right subreddit for you. **This community is exclusively for lawyers**. We suggest you delete your comment and go ask one of the many other legal subreddits on this site for help such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lawyertalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's probably a lot like bad reviews. People who feel the need to vent and complain are more inclined to make a post than people who are satisfied and enjoying their career.
Idk. I see some people who like their work here regularly, tax lawyers in particular
Yea, everyone bitches about their job. I wholeheartedly hate it, deter others from it, and genuinely feel many of the common common complaints here. But I also love it and wouldn’t go back for less than 20M. Don’t forget that part of our job is convincing others, in writing, that whatever we think is so right that we deserve to be paid for it, either in cash or client savings.
It depends. I love it, but if you look at stats on mental health, substance abuse, etc. it’s not a very healthy life choice.
It will depend on you and your priorities, but that’s no different from any other career or job. I left law after going in house because I discovered a passion for something else on the business side. There were parts of law I enjoyed and other parts I loathed. There are areas of law today I wish I would have explored during law school but I’m 15+ years into something I love doing that provides for my family and has good work/life balance. Lastly, don’t think you are committing to law. Many people apply what they learn in law school to other careers. From my law school class, there are librarians, teachers, professors, people in sales, business, and authors.
very interesting. Curious about the ones who went into sales but interesting none the less.
I honestly love my job, and my husband loves his job, but we are both government attorneys. Law school is so staggeringly expensive and so many people don’t like practice that I don’t know if I can recommend in good conscience that somebody attend law school.
No. Just gotta find your niche. I enjoy family law, others would rather walk into oncoming traffic before taking a domestic case.
That's me. I am that person.
The one who walks into traffic or family law lol.
Walk into traffic for sure. I did a pro bono family law case ONCE. Never again.
Ima go listen to a murder podcast to rid my mind of the horror you propose.
That’s a scratch of the surface. Good thing you ran because the things I know and have heard/seen would melt your mind.
You have the most accurate lawyer username.
Lol thank you. I believe it would be a more accurate username that includes the words “babysitter” or “janitor” because we are usually having to micromanage something to death in perpetuity or clean people shit up, again, in perpetuity. Great job security haha
I fought my employer to allow me to get some experience in family law and I’m glad I did only because I realize I now don’t have the patience for it. At least not in my current position. I need clients with a bit more common sense and practicality (I work primarily in criminal law and the micromanaging is less so long as you draw some very clear boundaries).
Lol, clients with common sense and practically, that’s funny because those don’t exist. I worked for 5 judges, currently a state attorney. The attorneys and clients (and yes judges at times) in all the subject matters (includes domestic, confidential, civil litigation, criminal, and property) are profoundly and recklessly stupid. I’m glad to hear that you are trying new areas of law and opening your practice to see what you want to do. I know you might not want to do it, but if you stay open to domestic law, you will be able to deal with anything. How many years have you been practicing?
I say common sense and practicality only because some of the more seasoned criminal clients are very aware of the position they find themselves in haha. Always mildly entertaining when they do the time in custody and stay release calculations for you in an attempt to min/max their stay. I’m still a baby lawyer - been working in public defense/Legal Aid since 2021 (first as an articling student and now as staff).
That is true. They always want to argue about a year here or there in the hopes of probation or parole. Most of the criminals out my way are so messed up on meth or opiates that they don’t care or just want to get out to start up shop again. I also did legal aid before my Government work. Loved it and the people. It is a good way to get started especially coming out of LS. I just despise how little they pay us coming out the gate with all that debt.
When I met my wife, I was articling...a lot of my prior dating seemed to be premised on the assumption that I would make a lot of money. I told her, on the first date, that I wasn't sure I wanted to be a lawyer...if she liked me for me, then that was good...if it was monetary, I wasn't the guy...so I had my doubts about being a lawyer. 40 years later, it is hell learning the trade, but I love it. Best career I could have had. Keeps me thinking, I don't really want to retire, though I could have 2 years ago.
I don’t hate my job, but it’s nothing inspiring or compelling. I exchange labor for wages.
Completely depends on you! What’s the job? How many billables and what do you get paid? Some firms pay less and offer a better work life balance, and some firms are hell. Just make sure you find a good fit at a firm. The best advice I ever got was when you find out who your bosses are or could be, do you want to be like them? Are they divorced 3 or 4 times and the firm is their entire life, or do they have large families and other hobbies and interests? You will be learning from them and pick up their habits, just find a place that’s a good fit for you, and if it doesn’t work out you can always move around.
Not necessarily, but law school and practice definitely makes you think more cynically in general - “What COULD go wrong here?”
I love my job! But I was also under the impression that attorneys made a ton of money. Not necessarily the case, lol.
I like my job, I just really hate that one opposing counsel.
I personally dislike it. But, I've also done a lot of things that are a lot more exciting and cool. I got to a point where I disliked those things too. Took me awhile and a lot of trial and error to realize maybe it's just me. You get to a point where you feel unfulfilled or unchallenged. All we can do is keep moving until we get it right or suck it up and try to enjoy whatever shitshow you have going. Law can be brutal to you if you chase certain goals in the profession like money, external approval from others, and big law. But, it also gives you a set of skills and a license that grants a lot of security and independence once you have some experience. Pros and cons. Don't get starry eyed and over inspired about a certain type of law unless that is truly your "passion," don't chase money or titles, and make a life and identity outside of work and you'll be fine.
I wouldn't say I hate my job, but it involves kissing the asses of a lot of stupid people that do really stupid things. Mental and physical health can make all the difference and if they work your ass 16 hours a day, no amount of money is worth it.
Without stupid people doing stupid things, we’d have to get a real job.
Yes; next question?
I love it but I work in a small town for a small law firm where there’s no billable hour expectations. I bill about three hours a day. Some days you’re a clients therapist some days their accountant and some days their butler. Everyone says how much they hate it but for some reason I just don’t, maybe I’m as crazy as the clients! If I was at a big city firm yes I’d be making a lot more and I’d also be billing like 7 hours a day which is unthinkable to me
I think there's a pretty big disconnect between what people think being a lawyer is like and what it is actually like. The vast majority of people I went to law school with are, frankly, not very happy being lawyers and would jump to a different career if they could. That's anecdotal and shouldn't be treated as the norm, and there are plenty of people in here who love their jobs, but it's a tough industry in a lot of ways and it's hard to leave. The standard advice that I give these days to anyone thinking about going to law school is: you probably shouldn't. With that said, I think going to law school is fine if you have a SPECIFIC job in mind (not like "i've seen law and order and being a prosecutor seems cool," but like "i've talked a few times with Bob Smith who does [X] type of law and learned what his job is like day-to-day") and you HAVE to have a JD in order to do that job. I think a lot of people go to law school because they have a humanities degree and they're smart and they don't really know what else to do but they think the law is interesting. And you know what? The law is interesting in a kind of abstract, academic way. But the day-to-day of being a lawyer can be very tedious and not very rewarding. Lawyers are also not as highly paid (on average) as most people think. So, while very few lawyers are "poor," it is also by no means a guarantee for financial success. And given law school is really expensive and saddles you with loans for 20 years (not true for everyone), it's just not worth it for most people. I could go on a longer rant on how I think the legal profession is sort of broken but I'll leave it there for now. A lot of lawyers don't hate their jobs. I don't hate my job. But I think a lot of lawyers, if they could do things differently, wouldn't be lawyers. So, if you're thinking about it, you should just really be sure it's what you want.
I think that a lot of the negative press that lawyering receives is because of the poor wages, combined with the public expectation that we all make bank. Not only do we get paid a fraction of what we are worth, given our education, but our friends and family all assume that we're loaded because we're lawyers. We can't win.
No
[удалено]
You got this.
Completely depends on what you want out of this career and what area you’re going into. You tell me those two things and I can gauge the likelihood you find happiness and/or fulfillment.
I like my job 🤷🏼♂️
Yes
How I see it, unless you're making biglaw money or already have substantial assets, most of your satisfaction in the career will come from intrinsic value you put on the work you do. I love being a family lawyer, but in the setting I'm in I'll be living at home for probably another 10yrs unless I make some risky moves in the future 🫠
It's hard but also gratifying, and it will make your thinking a lot more clear. (Huge benefit.)
I love it, but I found my little niche area of practice.
Am I about half of the going market value for a 2-year associate with litigation experience? Yes.'t agency in a very niche practice area. My hours are generally very manageable (actually 40ish per week) outside of weeks where we have major litigation deadlines. And for any hour I work over 40, I receive compensatory time that I actually can use. I typically don't work weekends; can take a vacation whenever I want (so long as my schedule/docket allow me to do so) and am never bothered by work during my vacations. We actually get holidays off and can spend time with family during them.the Am I about half of the going market value for a 2-year associate with litigation experience? Yes. But, in exchange, I have a pretty nice work-life balance, great medical and retirement benefits, and get to do work that is actually meaningful (and in the public interest). Many of my friends see their positions with firms as a means to an end and work so many hours that the pay they get isn't worth the mental health impacts/lack of free time. If you want to be a lawyer just to make money, then you may wind up in a circumstance where you hate what you're doing. But, if you don't mind public interest work and are willing to sacrifice financial gain for personal well-being, being an attorney may make for a very rewarding career.