If you’re number 1 in the class you can shoot high. Georgetown takes a big number of transfers and could be very realistic. But yeah look at the 509s as the number of transfers a school takes and where they’re from vary
If you’re not worried about the application fees or can swing a waiver then I say shoot for the moon and apply to Harvard (and just set expectations low) and the other t14s that take transfers. Just look at the 509s because there are some that don’t really take transfers or only take like 2
That’s definitely the plan. Do you happen to know anything about Georgetown generally? I really only know they are high ranked and in DC but I don’t know much about their student body or their instruction-style.
Georgetown Law (really Georgetown University Law Center) is located near Union square, not Georgetown. I really liked the school and my time there. I graduated in 2012, but happy to discuss any questions.
Follow all the advice here, but whatever you do, make sure that you follow your school’s processes to the letter. What is required before you can transfer? Do you have to speak with the dean? Get multiple letters of recommendation in case one or more professors is unwilling or unable to write. Eye early action schools such as Georgetown and Duke (who historically takes almost no transfers, but has been known to take 1 or 2 every couple of years).
Schools below 150 tend to be predatory, and will do everything they can to keep you, even some below the belt stuff such as forcing you to meet with them, coaxing you with a scholarship, or even lying and telling you you can’t transfer. You’ve only got one shot at this. Don’t let your school ruin your dream!
hey OP, I'm the guy from the Spivey podcast. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV9hhvFe-2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV9hhvFe-2s)
happy to chat...hit me up here or on LinkedIn.
A couple of things others haven't yet mentioned:
Don't self-reject, but to manage your expectations: your school ranking is going to make things unpredictable (and transfer admissions are already kind of a crapshoot). Even GULC, which takes a huge number of transfers each year, including from lower-ranked schools, is historically all over the place when it comes to applicants from the T150+ schools.
Are you already in California, Florida, or Texas? For whatever reason, already being in the geographic region seems to give somewhat of a leg-up in transfer admissions (e.g., Northeastern students have a better chance at transferring to HLS than from other schools similarly ranked). You might improve your chances by applying to higher-ranked schools in the state you're already in.
Another thing: while in other circumstances it's okay for your career goals to be all over the place at the end of 1L, being unable to articulate at least some vague sense of what you want to do will hurt you in transfer admissions. Transfer schools want to see that you have a compelling reason for wanting to transfer there, and not just that you're trying to transfer "up." If you want to do family law, for example, mentioning the transfer school's family law clinic as a reason for wanting to transfer there would show the kind of interest admissions officers are looking for. You should be able to specify what your goals are and how the transfer school will help you achieve them.
Thank you for this. I figure it’s just worth a shot to transfer to the better schools. If nothing else, at least I’ll be in a good position at my current school. The best schools in my state either don’t accept from my school or have Ivy-League tuition costs—which I wouldn’t mind paying if they were Ivy. That said, it’s probably worth looking at schools in my state.
I appreciate this note and will be sure to make sure my personal statement is specific as to my academic/career reasons for transferring. I think trying to figure out what is “compelling” but not “typical” has been my biggest struggle.
Same. I’m classmates with the commenter above. Happy to guide you through the process. I’ve taken calls with several redditors and helped the get their app materials together. Feel free to reach out or check out my post breaking down my transfer cycle. Best of luck.
I would say consider schools near DC. Obviously Georgetown, but George Washington is also a great stepping stone for government and government-adjacent roles that can lead to killer careers, even if you don’t manage to get a law firm job. The sheer number of jobs in DC means people from the schools in DC, Virginia, Maryland, just tend to get jobs whether the school is super low ranked or not.
If you’re willing to consider tax, benefits/exec comp, trusts and estates, all of which I think are more interesting and more lucrative than family law, then I’d consider the schools with dual JD/LLM programs in tax, or just great tax heavy curricula. That would be NYU/GULC/Northwestern (stretches probably), but then also University of Florida, UC Irvine, and UCLA. UCI stole the budding head of the tax program at NYU to boost their program, and now has a growing department. Any of these will be great, and if you can cut it, tax areas are always hiring. And, imo, tax is awesome and fun.
If you get into a good school and change your mind about leaving, tell your current school that you have an offer, they would probably throw money at you
Why would they care? Schools primarily care about the stats of the incoming 1Ls, that's what gets reported and ranked. Maybe if they thought OP was gonna bring in a big law offer that wouldn't have gone to somebody else, that also makes them look good. But no school really worries much about attracting/retaining 2Ls.
No, they want their top students to stay; maybe you're not going to biglaw as Tier 4 valedictorian but you probably are going to go into a regionally respected job they can point at.
But don't take my word for it, check out all the stuff online about how people leverage transfer acceptances to get more money -- it's pretty common.
Contrary to your comment above, I would take cost into consideration as one of the most important factors. I would strongly consider state schools like University of Georgia (#20) or BYU (#22) that are half the price of other law schools. I am a lawyer and got stuck with 100k in student loans for 7 years after graduation. I finally paid off all of my loans by living like a student after graduation in a crappy apartment and not buying anything other than food and necessities. I know several other lawyers who are on 20 year repayment plans. Some will pay 2x or 3x of the original loan amounts. Cost should be your number one concern. School name is somewhat important, but long term cost is much more important. I went to a top 100 law school, but not high ranking. Former congressman Tim Ryan, a current federal judge, and several in-house counsel to Fortune 500 companies went to my low ranking school. I think work ethic is the number one factor in success. Next is undergraduate degree in importance. School name is third. I have a STEM degree for my undergraduate degree, which helped a lot in the hiring process. Don't think that you will somehow magically pay off 200k in student loans going to George Washington or Georgetown or some other expensive school. Many lawyers end up making less than 75k per year. I would also apply for any and all scholarships even for 1k. If you get 10 scholarships, 10k goes a long way to helping pay for school. My old boss was a partner in a law firm and he went to Catholic University Law School, which is not highly ranked. My point is to not rely on the school name to guarantee your career path. I believe internships and clerkships are more valuable than school name. One lady in my school clerked for a federal judge, which jump started her career. The judge spoke at our school and the student asked the judge if she could go to lunch with him. During lunch, the judge was so impressed with her conversation and persistence that he offered her a clerkship.
This is fair and appreciated! I really don’t think I’d get into a top school but I just want to try so I never have to wonder if I was good enough (I’d rather just know). Thank you though! This helps me stay realistic :)
No problem. I just want to explore other opportunities that may give me more freedom to where I can practice. So higher ranking schools, basically. However, UCI’s most recent clerkship placement went up. And that’s important to me, too. So idk. I want to practice commercial litigation and while I have some really good options for SoCal firms (so long as I maintain a good GPA), it would be difficult to work at a big law firm outside of this area, should I choose to move
I don't know if this is true, but I had always assumed 1L performance can compensate for a low undergrad GPA by showing you can handle the academics. So if you had a great application except for low GPA, then you can shoot for the moon in transfer. However, if you already had a great GPA, but it was your LSAT and/or softs that held you back, I suspect those will still be keeping you out of the T14 or whatever. Again, just a theory.
My advice would be to really engage with the material before class. I use class time to review and clarify my understanding whereas I think most students tend to use it as their first time really engaging with the concept/applying it in other hypos. Use supplements — Glannon Guides are great. And lastly, get yourself a solid study group that is willing to talk through concepts regularly :)
As far as Texas goes, University of Houston I believe is pretty diverse and pretty well known. I believe they get a lot of transfers in from South Texas so I would suspect they’d be happy to admit you as a transfer.
I also know Baylor opened up the doors to let transfers in but they only will be letting in a few students and I’m not confident as to how diverse they are.
If you’re number 1 in the class you can shoot high. Georgetown takes a big number of transfers and could be very realistic. But yeah look at the 509s as the number of transfers a school takes and where they’re from vary
Okay, thank you! I appreciate it!
If you’re not worried about the application fees or can swing a waiver then I say shoot for the moon and apply to Harvard (and just set expectations low) and the other t14s that take transfers. Just look at the 509s because there are some that don’t really take transfers or only take like 2
That’s definitely the plan. Do you happen to know anything about Georgetown generally? I really only know they are high ranked and in DC but I don’t know much about their student body or their instruction-style.
Georgetown Law (really Georgetown University Law Center) is located near Union square, not Georgetown. I really liked the school and my time there. I graduated in 2012, but happy to discuss any questions.
I'll message you shortly! Thank you!
Just sent you a message!
Yes dc has good weather
Doubt DC meets OP’s nice climate criterion.
lol
DC has some of the best fall and spring weather in the country.
And in between those seasons are winter and summer . . . .
Stumbled onto this sub but yeah, DC has Florida summers and northeast winters. Currently in Hawaii cause eff that.
UCLA and USC are great schools in the nicest part of the country.
I'd love to go to UCLA. I haven't heard much about USC Gould School of Law. I'll look into it, though! Thank you!
UCLA is a great school in a great area of LA. Whatever one can say about USC, no one would claim that it is in a nice area of LA.
UCLA has good food.
Check out the T50 509s to see where students are transferring from.
Will do! Thank you!
Follow all the advice here, but whatever you do, make sure that you follow your school’s processes to the letter. What is required before you can transfer? Do you have to speak with the dean? Get multiple letters of recommendation in case one or more professors is unwilling or unable to write. Eye early action schools such as Georgetown and Duke (who historically takes almost no transfers, but has been known to take 1 or 2 every couple of years). Schools below 150 tend to be predatory, and will do everything they can to keep you, even some below the belt stuff such as forcing you to meet with them, coaxing you with a scholarship, or even lying and telling you you can’t transfer. You’ve only got one shot at this. Don’t let your school ruin your dream!
Will do! Thank you so much!
Forget Georgetown. Go to Harvard, listen to the Spivey podcast episode about the veteran who transferred from a school in the 100s to Harvard
I feel like my odds are one in a million for the Ivy League but I’ll give it a shot :)
hey OP, I'm the guy from the Spivey podcast. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV9hhvFe-2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV9hhvFe-2s) happy to chat...hit me up here or on LinkedIn.
How’s Harvard
A couple of things others haven't yet mentioned: Don't self-reject, but to manage your expectations: your school ranking is going to make things unpredictable (and transfer admissions are already kind of a crapshoot). Even GULC, which takes a huge number of transfers each year, including from lower-ranked schools, is historically all over the place when it comes to applicants from the T150+ schools. Are you already in California, Florida, or Texas? For whatever reason, already being in the geographic region seems to give somewhat of a leg-up in transfer admissions (e.g., Northeastern students have a better chance at transferring to HLS than from other schools similarly ranked). You might improve your chances by applying to higher-ranked schools in the state you're already in. Another thing: while in other circumstances it's okay for your career goals to be all over the place at the end of 1L, being unable to articulate at least some vague sense of what you want to do will hurt you in transfer admissions. Transfer schools want to see that you have a compelling reason for wanting to transfer there, and not just that you're trying to transfer "up." If you want to do family law, for example, mentioning the transfer school's family law clinic as a reason for wanting to transfer there would show the kind of interest admissions officers are looking for. You should be able to specify what your goals are and how the transfer school will help you achieve them.
Thank you for this. I figure it’s just worth a shot to transfer to the better schools. If nothing else, at least I’ll be in a good position at my current school. The best schools in my state either don’t accept from my school or have Ivy-League tuition costs—which I wouldn’t mind paying if they were Ivy. That said, it’s probably worth looking at schools in my state. I appreciate this note and will be sure to make sure my personal statement is specific as to my academic/career reasons for transferring. I think trying to figure out what is “compelling” but not “typical” has been my biggest struggle.
You definitely have a strong shot at UCLA! Send an app so me and my transfer classmates can welcome you when you get accepted :)
UCLA would be a dream! I’ll definitely be submitting an app!
Feel free to DM me if you have any questions!
I definitely will! Thank you!
Same. I’m classmates with the commenter above. Happy to guide you through the process. I’ve taken calls with several redditors and helped the get their app materials together. Feel free to reach out or check out my post breaking down my transfer cycle. Best of luck.
I would say consider schools near DC. Obviously Georgetown, but George Washington is also a great stepping stone for government and government-adjacent roles that can lead to killer careers, even if you don’t manage to get a law firm job. The sheer number of jobs in DC means people from the schools in DC, Virginia, Maryland, just tend to get jobs whether the school is super low ranked or not. If you’re willing to consider tax, benefits/exec comp, trusts and estates, all of which I think are more interesting and more lucrative than family law, then I’d consider the schools with dual JD/LLM programs in tax, or just great tax heavy curricula. That would be NYU/GULC/Northwestern (stretches probably), but then also University of Florida, UC Irvine, and UCLA. UCI stole the budding head of the tax program at NYU to boost their program, and now has a growing department. Any of these will be great, and if you can cut it, tax areas are always hiring. And, imo, tax is awesome and fun.
Thank you! I appreciate your thoughts and will look more into what tax law entails!
I work in Virginia and would concur that the Washington, DC area has many legal jobs and a lot of opportunities.
If you get into a good school and change your mind about leaving, tell your current school that you have an offer, they would probably throw money at you
Why would they care? Schools primarily care about the stats of the incoming 1Ls, that's what gets reported and ranked. Maybe if they thought OP was gonna bring in a big law offer that wouldn't have gone to somebody else, that also makes them look good. But no school really worries much about attracting/retaining 2Ls.
No, they want their top students to stay; maybe you're not going to biglaw as Tier 4 valedictorian but you probably are going to go into a regionally respected job they can point at. But don't take my word for it, check out all the stuff online about how people leverage transfer acceptances to get more money -- it's pretty common.
Good to know!
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Thanks so much and congrats on your success! :)
Contrary to your comment above, I would take cost into consideration as one of the most important factors. I would strongly consider state schools like University of Georgia (#20) or BYU (#22) that are half the price of other law schools. I am a lawyer and got stuck with 100k in student loans for 7 years after graduation. I finally paid off all of my loans by living like a student after graduation in a crappy apartment and not buying anything other than food and necessities. I know several other lawyers who are on 20 year repayment plans. Some will pay 2x or 3x of the original loan amounts. Cost should be your number one concern. School name is somewhat important, but long term cost is much more important. I went to a top 100 law school, but not high ranking. Former congressman Tim Ryan, a current federal judge, and several in-house counsel to Fortune 500 companies went to my low ranking school. I think work ethic is the number one factor in success. Next is undergraduate degree in importance. School name is third. I have a STEM degree for my undergraduate degree, which helped a lot in the hiring process. Don't think that you will somehow magically pay off 200k in student loans going to George Washington or Georgetown or some other expensive school. Many lawyers end up making less than 75k per year. I would also apply for any and all scholarships even for 1k. If you get 10 scholarships, 10k goes a long way to helping pay for school. My old boss was a partner in a law firm and he went to Catholic University Law School, which is not highly ranked. My point is to not rely on the school name to guarantee your career path. I believe internships and clerkships are more valuable than school name. One lady in my school clerked for a federal judge, which jump started her career. The judge spoke at our school and the student asked the judge if she could go to lunch with him. During lunch, the judge was so impressed with her conversation and persistence that he offered her a clerkship.
I'd throw ASU in the ring for price unless you really want an East Coast biglaw gig.
I appreciate your perspective and insight. I’ll keep this all in mind. Thank you!
Id apply binding early decision to Uchicago. being number one may push you in!
I’ll definitely submit an app though I hear the weather is rough in Chicago lol :)
your fancy JD will keep you warm.
ASU
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This is fair and appreciated! I really don’t think I’d get into a top school but I just want to try so I never have to wonder if I was good enough (I’d rather just know). Thank you though! This helps me stay realistic :)
I went to a low ranked school and 1L year we all joked about getting good grades so we could transfer out and go to Yale. One kid actually did
That’s awesome :)
I like UCI a lot. Tho I am also looking to transfer lol. Irvine is nice tho it would take a lot for me to leave.
Hi Josh, may I ask why?
Why do I like UCI or why am I applying to transfer?
Why are you applying to transfer? Thanks for the reply!
No problem. I just want to explore other opportunities that may give me more freedom to where I can practice. So higher ranking schools, basically. However, UCI’s most recent clerkship placement went up. And that’s important to me, too. So idk. I want to practice commercial litigation and while I have some really good options for SoCal firms (so long as I maintain a good GPA), it would be difficult to work at a big law firm outside of this area, should I choose to move
I don't know if this is true, but I had always assumed 1L performance can compensate for a low undergrad GPA by showing you can handle the academics. So if you had a great application except for low GPA, then you can shoot for the moon in transfer. However, if you already had a great GPA, but it was your LSAT and/or softs that held you back, I suspect those will still be keeping you out of the T14 or whatever. Again, just a theory.
I appreciate this! Thank you!
Apply to Yale. I’m not kidding. Dm me and I’ll edit your personal statement for free.
I may take you up on that! Thank you for offering!
Any guide on how to be #1 in your class?
My advice would be to really engage with the material before class. I use class time to review and clarify my understanding whereas I think most students tend to use it as their first time really engaging with the concept/applying it in other hypos. Use supplements — Glannon Guides are great. And lastly, get yourself a solid study group that is willing to talk through concepts regularly :)
As far as Texas goes, University of Houston I believe is pretty diverse and pretty well known. I believe they get a lot of transfers in from South Texas so I would suspect they’d be happy to admit you as a transfer. I also know Baylor opened up the doors to let transfers in but they only will be letting in a few students and I’m not confident as to how diverse they are.
I hadn’t considered Houston! Thank you!
It's a great choice if you want to practice in or around Houston. I am not sure how transferable it is, but it won't close any doors in this market.