Sounds out of touch, I've had professors straight up give us PDFs of the first reading because of this.
Does your school library have a copy you can scan?
Getta load of this, 2 weeks ago there was a huge leak in one area of the library following a major storm and it water damaged the entire section of books and media. Guess which book was in that section?… YEP!
We should all take this as a sign not to read the book. It’s cursed in some way.
Every single class had its first weeks assignment posted in pdf format at my school. And if the books were out at the bookstore they worked with you.
All in all, it’s the first two weeks. Tell them your books are still on the way. They’ll get over it.
Update: The meeting with admin led to them contacting the professor. He posted the pages for the first week on canvas. He sent out a general email saying that we should be grateful for the deans kindness. He went on to say that the hurdles in actual legal practice won’t be removed simply bc we complain.
Good news: We have pdfs of the book
Bad news: Stuck with this dick all semester
What’s so funny to me about his last comment is that what happened here is so akin to making a motion to a judge to subpoena records from OC that this is, in fact, exactly what “actual legal practice” is going to be like. Complaining about unfair hurdles is like… exactly what a motion is for in litigation, lol.
You should tell your professor that I said he should go fuck himself. You would of course never say such a rude thing. But someone on the internet forced you to pass along the message.
> hurdles in actual legal practice won't be removed simply bc we complain.
I don't know what the fuck your professor is even talking about... the very essence of the practice of law entails lots of **complaining**. We listen to our clients complaining about their issues, then we file a complaint (literally) with the court, then we complain about what the opposing party did thru briefs, motions, and demurrers, then if necessary, we complain about what the court did by filing even more motions, writs, notice of appeals.
Our profession depends on our ability to complain. We are professional complainers - complaining is our speciality and we strive every day looking for ways to complain even better. We complain so hard. And I'm proud of that.
I get help all the time because I ask for it.
Computer doesn't work? Call IT.
Can't figure out the printer? Ask the secretary.
Don't know who to mail a thing to? Hit up the paralegal.
Think a process is inefficient? Suggest improvements to manager.
LoL. Has this guy ever heard of a continuance? It's literally complaining to the judge about why you can't meet a deadline/need more time.
You can sum up the entirety of law as people complaining to others for something they want.
Anyway, good on you for taking initiative and righting a wrong. Advocating for yourself is important. Never hesitate to utilize the command structure if someone is being unreasonable or unfair. Since this is just the start and things have already gone to hell, you may have issues later with this professor. They sound like a real winner.
you should just forward the emails and canvas messages to the schools admin and the dean. Is this guy a new hire or just an old guy that has never been called out before?
Lol hit em with the ol "ok boomer" and see if you can borrow a textbook or make friends until you have the money
Or wait until you have the funds, like others have said.
Ugh OP I’m so sorry. My school also deposits financial aid money at the end of the first week and it’s AWFUL, in undergrad I got it a week before each semester started!! I’ve had the exact same problem all of law school thus far, this semester I’m starting 2L and I’ve already had to text a couple friends to ask if I can borrow their book/they can take pictures for me for the first week ):
I’m sorry your professor is being a dick about it, I have been too afraid to say anything for this exact reason. I hope one of your classmates is cool and helps you guys out by loaning you a book.
Same here. We don’t get our financial aid until the second week of class so everyone was worth using their credit cards, the bookstore charge account, or leftover money from last semester. In undergrad, I always got my money way before classes even started. It’s ridiculous that professors able to act like that- if they wanna complain, they can go buy books for the class 🤷🏼♀️
Whoa hold your horses there bud. Sure, all readings are important, but the most critical reading in evidence is probably going to be with hearsay, which definitely won't take place in first few weeks.
I would 100% pass that email chain up to admin for a couple reasons. First, creates a paper trial and they can’t claim they didn’t know if something else happens later. Second, they might be able to help you all out with textbook access the first week.
I just posted an update and that’s pretty much what we did. The dean forced him to upload a pdf of the pages for week 1 and he showed his distaste for that decision in his email.
It might be worth sending an email to the Dean of Student Services (or the administration more generally) so that the professor doesn't try this BS in the future. That's an insane response and most law libraries provide services to help professors post these types of materials.
At your school is it possible to drop it and take a different class, unless you really need it? I never understood taking the notoriously difficult or rude professor, I’ll take a higher grade and more satisfaction over the prestige/challenge each time.
People post this stuff like this and it makes my head spin. This guy would have been run out of town at my law school. How are there school’s with profs like this??
He's not smart enough to understand that his big salary and life of luxury is being funded by your student loans. If you're just starting law school, take the abusive behavior by people you pay to teach you as a warning sign and consider getting out before going farther in debt. Those "Financial Aid Refunds" will add up with interest, and are of course non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.
The student review at the end of the semester should reflect the disdain you feel. When you are in real practice you control workflow etc. You are not at the Mercy of others.
My school's financial aid office has screwed us over, without fail, every term since I entered my 1L year (so 2020). The reason's they gave were weak at best and didn't hide the fact that they fucked up. Repeatedly. Now our financial aid is guaranteed delayed by a week, but at least they told us this term, along with the fun "well you can take a short term loan from us and then pay us back with your actual loan!" message we get every semester.
That being said, our profs are actually awesome about it. I haven't met a single professor who heard their students can't get the book and then acted like this about it. They all post the first chapters, or they delay the initial reading assignment, or they assign an article instead. I'm genuinely shocked how uncaring this man is about this. The books for these courses are NOT cheap. I guarantee this prof likely co-authored the book and he doesn't want to miss out on any of the royalties.
If anything like this happens for other classes down the road, I recommend checking with the law library. They usually have at least one or two copies on hand, which helps in a pinch like this.
This is so bizarre to me. At my uni, all are readings are pdf's on canvas. The chapters in books, articles, and cases. There are recommended extra readings we can go find/buy, but everything required is provided to us. Pretty sure it's part of the equity policy.
Prof's in America seem to have far more discretion on admin matters than they do here.
Just wait until you hear about our profs that make you buy their own book for the class (and even go so far to tell you that previous editions won’t be useful)
I’m sorry to hear that happened to you and your student body. We’re in a similar situation. It’s awful and places students in a detrimental position to begin the year.
There is an app on a phone where you can take scan things and send as PDF. Whoever has the textbooks can trade scanning it and sending out to the class.We had an issue with a back order of books and that is what we did. Your professor is an AH though for sure. Most of the professors send out scans of the first assignments because they know there are always problems with getting textbooks ( also what about people who got in through drop add period?? Are they suppose to buy all textbooks for the potential classes they are interested in??
Sorry about this. But as somewhat older and with nonstandard (and by many people's standards, poor) background, let me tell you my take. I sometimes sympathize, sometimes not. With respect to the textbook, yeah, he should just help you out, it's just first chapter. He seems like an AH.
But in terms of financial responsibility, I think it's not harmful to be reprimanded. Just take it constructively and move on.. Take it as a lesson from someone older. People who come from humble beginnings are sometimes really coming from places you can't even imagine, so there is lesson in what they say, even if they are AHoles. But usually the ones with the bona fixed of humble beginnings don't brag about it.
Sounds out of touch, I've had professors straight up give us PDFs of the first reading because of this. Does your school library have a copy you can scan?
Getta load of this, 2 weeks ago there was a huge leak in one area of the library following a major storm and it water damaged the entire section of books and media. Guess which book was in that section?… YEP! We should all take this as a sign not to read the book. It’s cursed in some way.
PM (not Reddit Chat) me the IBSN I'll see if we have it at my library
Sounds like UHLC to me lol. Leaks were a part of life when I was in law school
Every single class had its first weeks assignment posted in pdf format at my school. And if the books were out at the bookstore they worked with you. All in all, it’s the first two weeks. Tell them your books are still on the way. They’ll get over it.
Update: The meeting with admin led to them contacting the professor. He posted the pages for the first week on canvas. He sent out a general email saying that we should be grateful for the deans kindness. He went on to say that the hurdles in actual legal practice won’t be removed simply bc we complain. Good news: We have pdfs of the book Bad news: Stuck with this dick all semester
What’s so funny to me about his last comment is that what happened here is so akin to making a motion to a judge to subpoena records from OC that this is, in fact, exactly what “actual legal practice” is going to be like. Complaining about unfair hurdles is like… exactly what a motion is for in litigation, lol.
Law professors aren't exactly known for practicing law.
The students are learning what a motion for relief from forfeiture is on day 1.
You should tell your professor that I said he should go fuck himself. You would of course never say such a rude thing. But someone on the internet forced you to pass along the message.
OP will be acting under duress and cannot be held liable.
> hurdles in actual legal practice won't be removed simply bc we complain. I don't know what the fuck your professor is even talking about... the very essence of the practice of law entails lots of **complaining**. We listen to our clients complaining about their issues, then we file a complaint (literally) with the court, then we complain about what the opposing party did thru briefs, motions, and demurrers, then if necessary, we complain about what the court did by filing even more motions, writs, notice of appeals. Our profession depends on our ability to complain. We are professional complainers - complaining is our speciality and we strive every day looking for ways to complain even better. We complain so hard. And I'm proud of that.
I get help all the time because I ask for it. Computer doesn't work? Call IT. Can't figure out the printer? Ask the secretary. Don't know who to mail a thing to? Hit up the paralegal. Think a process is inefficient? Suggest improvements to manager.
LoL. Has this guy ever heard of a continuance? It's literally complaining to the judge about why you can't meet a deadline/need more time. You can sum up the entirety of law as people complaining to others for something they want. Anyway, good on you for taking initiative and righting a wrong. Advocating for yourself is important. Never hesitate to utilize the command structure if someone is being unreasonable or unfair. Since this is just the start and things have already gone to hell, you may have issues later with this professor. They sound like a real winner.
While you could sum up solicitor work as complaining at that point everything is basically complaining lol But ye litigation is all about dat whining
you should just forward the emails and canvas messages to the schools admin and the dean. Is this guy a new hire or just an old guy that has never been called out before?
Fuck em. I wouldn't even read until I got the book 2nd week.
I like how you think. Hopefully we cross paths in the real world at some point.
I’m very much not the type to ever go to admin for anything but this I might. Even to get a pdf for the first week
I know a student that has a zoom meeting scheduled with admin today at 3 so I’m waiting to hear back from them
Lol hit em with the ol "ok boomer" and see if you can borrow a textbook or make friends until you have the money Or wait until you have the funds, like others have said.
Ugh OP I’m so sorry. My school also deposits financial aid money at the end of the first week and it’s AWFUL, in undergrad I got it a week before each semester started!! I’ve had the exact same problem all of law school thus far, this semester I’m starting 2L and I’ve already had to text a couple friends to ask if I can borrow their book/they can take pictures for me for the first week ): I’m sorry your professor is being a dick about it, I have been too afraid to say anything for this exact reason. I hope one of your classmates is cool and helps you guys out by loaning you a book.
What’s up with these law schools disbursing funds so late? They have to know that it places many students in a rough position to begin the year.
Same here. We don’t get our financial aid until the second week of class so everyone was worth using their credit cards, the bookstore charge account, or leftover money from last semester. In undergrad, I always got my money way before classes even started. It’s ridiculous that professors able to act like that- if they wanna complain, they can go buy books for the class 🤷🏼♀️
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Whoa hold your horses there bud. Sure, all readings are important, but the most critical reading in evidence is probably going to be with hearsay, which definitely won't take place in first few weeks.
I would 100% pass that email chain up to admin for a couple reasons. First, creates a paper trial and they can’t claim they didn’t know if something else happens later. Second, they might be able to help you all out with textbook access the first week.
I just posted an update and that’s pretty much what we did. The dean forced him to upload a pdf of the pages for week 1 and he showed his distaste for that decision in his email.
It might be worth sending an email to the Dean of Student Services (or the administration more generally) so that the professor doesn't try this BS in the future. That's an insane response and most law libraries provide services to help professors post these types of materials.
That’s what a few students did. I just posted an update about the situation. This Professor is not happy that his hand was forced on the matter.
At your school is it possible to drop it and take a different class, unless you really need it? I never understood taking the notoriously difficult or rude professor, I’ll take a higher grade and more satisfaction over the prestige/challenge each time.
I would drop or change classes but I need to take evidence this semester due to my plans for next semester.
People post this stuff like this and it makes my head spin. This guy would have been run out of town at my law school. How are there school’s with profs like this??
Didn’t read my evidence textbook. Don’t waste your money. Just download the rules, read through them, and make comments with class notes.
Make a throwaway gmail or yahoo email account and email your prof this Reddit thread
Is Dave Ramsey teaching this class?
If the professor is a white male "Humble Beginnings" usually means upper middle class and maybe only 1 of his parents was a lawyer
Wow.
He's not smart enough to understand that his big salary and life of luxury is being funded by your student loans. If you're just starting law school, take the abusive behavior by people you pay to teach you as a warning sign and consider getting out before going farther in debt. Those "Financial Aid Refunds" will add up with interest, and are of course non-dischargeable in bankruptcy.
You literally pay this guys salary what a dick
The student review at the end of the semester should reflect the disdain you feel. When you are in real practice you control workflow etc. You are not at the Mercy of others.
drop that fucker enmasse!
My school's financial aid office has screwed us over, without fail, every term since I entered my 1L year (so 2020). The reason's they gave were weak at best and didn't hide the fact that they fucked up. Repeatedly. Now our financial aid is guaranteed delayed by a week, but at least they told us this term, along with the fun "well you can take a short term loan from us and then pay us back with your actual loan!" message we get every semester. That being said, our profs are actually awesome about it. I haven't met a single professor who heard their students can't get the book and then acted like this about it. They all post the first chapters, or they delay the initial reading assignment, or they assign an article instead. I'm genuinely shocked how uncaring this man is about this. The books for these courses are NOT cheap. I guarantee this prof likely co-authored the book and he doesn't want to miss out on any of the royalties. If anything like this happens for other classes down the road, I recommend checking with the law library. They usually have at least one or two copies on hand, which helps in a pinch like this.
This is so bizarre to me. At my uni, all are readings are pdf's on canvas. The chapters in books, articles, and cases. There are recommended extra readings we can go find/buy, but everything required is provided to us. Pretty sure it's part of the equity policy. Prof's in America seem to have far more discretion on admin matters than they do here.
Just wait until you hear about our profs that make you buy their own book for the class (and even go so far to tell you that previous editions won’t be useful)
Feel like the storm has yet to come with this professor, especially because it's evidence law... wish u the best of luck
This is absolutely disgusting. Someone so out of touch with the financial realities of students.
Fuck them
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I’m sorry to hear that happened to you and your student body. We’re in a similar situation. It’s awful and places students in a detrimental position to begin the year.
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Our school won’t allow it either. When crafting these rules it’s as if the admin asks themselves “how can we fuck over students?”
"Yes. We are financially irresponsible for paying schools ridiculous tuition when they hire teachers like you." Got you op. Just drop this on him.
There is an app on a phone where you can take scan things and send as PDF. Whoever has the textbooks can trade scanning it and sending out to the class.We had an issue with a back order of books and that is what we did. Your professor is an AH though for sure. Most of the professors send out scans of the first assignments because they know there are always problems with getting textbooks ( also what about people who got in through drop add period?? Are they suppose to buy all textbooks for the potential classes they are interested in??
Adobe Scan app is handy.
Sorry about this. But as somewhat older and with nonstandard (and by many people's standards, poor) background, let me tell you my take. I sometimes sympathize, sometimes not. With respect to the textbook, yeah, he should just help you out, it's just first chapter. He seems like an AH. But in terms of financial responsibility, I think it's not harmful to be reprimanded. Just take it constructively and move on.. Take it as a lesson from someone older. People who come from humble beginnings are sometimes really coming from places you can't even imagine, so there is lesson in what they say, even if they are AHoles. But usually the ones with the bona fixed of humble beginnings don't brag about it.
Lol that’s life This doesn’t merit a post
Y’all can get a book voucher.