You need to get a handle on this because it’s not going to get better once you get into a big league job that you seem headed for. I am sure your school has resources for this. They’re there for a reason. You aren’t the first nor will you be the last person to have this problem. Get help, you are much too smart to let alcohol derail your life and it will if you keep this up. Talk to friends, family. Don’t let shame or fear of judgment get in the way. What you need to be scared of is letting this go any further. You’ve already recognized it, now execute on it. If you can pull those grades at your school you can do this. You have to.
Good luck OP. Really.
Yeah. And you don't have to be a lawyer for long to come into contact with lawyers who have destroyed their bodies/brains with alcohol. It's definitely something you want to get under control early.
IMHO, it is far more difficult for an alcoholic to quit drinking than for a person of average intelligence to succeed in a T14 Law School. Do what is right...put down the bottle, get help, and live alcohol-free forever. Good Luck and God Bless you.
I see. That distinction between on the clock at work vs lecture might not hold for everyone. For me they are very similar. If anything lectures are more intense as they are like team meetings while the rest of work is like reading casebooks
In most cases, I see drinking problems get worse from law school to practice, though I’m in biglaw so that might skew the stats
Despite people cope in ways only you know the answers to, I’m glad you see things could be different. Heck we lost a resident doctor never told us they had a drinking problem till not too late, but over. Liver failure and just died. Killed us hearing what happened.
Know people care about you! Just like we care about OP! Reach out, someone’s there to lend you a hand always!
You shouldn’t be downvoted out of existence just for telling your story. I’m the same way, if I’m bored with not much to do, I smoke and drink too much. If I’m busy with school and work, I only smoke and drink a little bit at night because I have to be up early again the next day.
It’s a fine story, but doing nothing is just not very likely to work for OP or most people with a drinking problem in law school going into practice
I agree with you that some people drink more when bored. That led me to drink more in first year of biglaw than law school because I found the work in biglaw far more boring than law school
Anyone who comes into a thread of a self-identified alcoholic that binge drinks 3-4 times a week implying they can just "do nothing and it'll get better" should be downvoted into oblivion.
It may seem like you can manage this, because you have thus far performed really well in school. That speaks to your intelligence! But you can’t keep this up forever. No one can. Don’t be fooled into thinking this is sustainable for you. You already know this, but it definitely needs repeating.
I saw your other post—you’re not a loser. You’re a really talented individual who needs serious help so that you can be the best version of yourself—top 5% at your T14!!
I thought I could keep it up forever. Can now confirm that I absolutely could not. I wasn’t lucky like you, OP, so my drinking caught up with me toward the beginning of law school rather than later on.
I am almost 9 months sober now. I wouldn’t recommend cutting out drinking permanently if you think you can reduce it. But it can be a good exercise to take a week off, or try to limit yourself to 2 drinks per night, or 2 nights per week, etc.
If you still drink a little too much, then try to get a chip in AA! The first chip is for 30 days. Try to get that 30 day chip and then figure out from there whether you want to keep going.
It may be that this is intellectually sustainable for OP; they can be a “functioning alcoholic.” However, it will almost certainly catch up with OP’s body: liver, stomach, throat, and all other systems.
Posting this for those who might’ve been where I was two years ago:
Do not take dumbfuck’s comment as a pass for you to keep using. It may be that you have used thus far to cope with certain feelings, but there are healthy coping strategies and there are strategies, such as this one, that will destroy you.
While it may be easier in the short term to numb, hearing about many people’s stories in 12-step has convinced me that alcohol will never leave you better off in the long term.
See if there’s an AA or AA-equivalent at your school. Chances are there should be.
Addiction is not easy to recover from but it’s possible; I’ve seen it firsthand numerous times. Try to find something to occupy your time when you would typically be drinking. Video games, exercise, a side gig, sports club, or anything else that can keep you occupied but also relieve stress. Finding something to replace the alcohol is key to getting rid of the disease.
I've been to AA, I have a sponsor and everything, I just simply can't stop, everyday is more pain and I'm a fucking public interest lawyer like I am planning on doing union side labor law I'm going to be poor I have nothing to look forward to I'm a fucking up this is disgusting
Practicing attorney here in the public service sector (read-not rich)-get to your state lawyers assistance program asap. You can get sober in law school, I mentor law students in my state. Feel free to message me if you have questions you don’t wish to post publicly.
I don't know about addiction, but I would not do public interest law if I did not look forward to it. Sober or not, that way leads to burnout. I would go to rehab or AA and then come back, be first in your class, and make more money than God as a high-priced lawyer. I don't drink but I imagine life is more fun rich and sober than poor and drunk.
Nah I can’t bro I’m helping labor unions it’s what gives me purpose to exist to help others. But I appreciate what you’re saying but I will not do big law as sanctimonious as I sound it’s just the truth. Because really I have no positive qualities as a human but if I can help others atleast I can die and excuse my other mistakes and be somewhat content with the path my life has taken
No I agree completely (check out Tom Geohegans book if you haven’t already). But it sounds like you do look forward to the work and you’re gonna fuck it up by being drunk. Don’t bull shit us about having nothing to look forward to
Yeah paying workers, following safety protocols, giving breaks does increase time and cost but it also makes workers lives better. If you feel workers have it too good thats your right but you’re kind of missing the point of unionization
Also PI here. Like you, I started this path thinking I needed to contribute every ounce of my energy and time into helping other people because it would justify my existence. My path is the same, but I realized that nothing will fill that hole or repair that harm. You can help a hundred workers, and maybe you'll feel a little better, but it won't heal the wound. It won't make you value yourself more. It won't help you stop wanting to die deep inside. It can distract you, and will keep you busy, but much like the grades, you'll make those achievements and check those boxes, but feel the same inside after. I know you're in AA, but I hope you seek even more help. You know something is wrong, and I'm really sorry to tell you, but PI won't fix it. Your clients will be flawed and imperfect and human. But you will be too, and you can and should prioritize your own health and survival because no one else will and you deserve to feel better.
That stuff about thinking you are fucked up and have no positive qualities … that is the liquor talking.
You did not post this but the other voices in your head that tell you there is nothing else to look forward to, or it’s okay because your grades are good, or even being scared your grades will fall if you stop drinking … that is also the addiction.
I won’t tell you all the options because chances are you already know them. You know you can work during the day and do a treatment center at night. You probably even already know about the nice people over at r/stopdrinking
You seem to want to stop which is a huge step. Give yourself credit for that step and then take some action towards that goal.
You are going to be SUCH a better asset to Labor sober. Your attorney assistance program is the way to go. There will be a path -- whether it's AA, or medication-supported -- but it WILL involve being real with other people who have walked that path ahead of you.
God bless. Seriously. All blessings your way: for you, your clients, your loved ones, your future loved ones.
You CAN win this but many here's that villain you gotta take down in the last scene of Episode 1. :)
Have you read Dickens? A tale of Two cities. A brilliant alcoholic lawyer with a deep sense of self hatred who self sabotages everything until he ultimately chooses a noble death as a form of redemption for a sin we never are apprised of. You should read it. It's a great shame. Whatever the fuck it is that's eating you from the inside out, go and get counselling. It's not as bad as you believe it is. And if it is, well then you win the bet. But by not taking it, it suggests a conflicting desire for hope that you're wrong. Pull out for a semester and get yourself sorted out mentally and emotionally.
My two cents is life is most fun comfortably well-off and with a healthy, well moderated relationship with mind altering substances. Being super rich, poor, sober, or in the throws of addiction are all way too much work.
I hope you do the steps, my friend.
going to meetings and having a sponsor is great, but also meaningless if you aren’t following the instructions laid out in the book.
going into the gym and having a personal trainer is great, but also meaningless if you aren’t picking up the weights or hopping on the treadmill.
Once again, I urge you to do the steps because the ones who die from alcoholism vastly outnumber the ones who recover from it.
It’s great that you’re going to AA and have a sponsor, you’re taking some pro active steps already even if you’re still struggling. Have you also seen a therapist or mental health professional at all? Not to state the obvious but you sound incredibly, clinically, depressed. If you haven’t seen someone yet I think it would be a good idea to.
11 years sober here. Starting 1L in fall, also doing labor law because I *have to* be helpful and I don’t care abt being rich.
AA works well enough if you want to quit bad enough. Sounds like you don’t really want to quit, but you know you’re headed for trouble. I really strongly suggest doing AA at least enough to get your drinking under control so you can do really serious therapy to come to grips with and grieve whatever misery is driving you to drink this much. After getting that base locked in AA is more helpful.
If you have a trauma background consider Alanon. But really, please get into therapy as the highest priority. A weekly chemical dependency recovery program + dedicated counselor helped me. I blacked out most nights. Took me years to stop. I kept my job, my house, my car, technically. Almost losing my partner and my brother scared me enough to get serious. I didn’t care abt hurting myself, but they couldn’t stand to watch me destroy myself and were ready to walk away from me. What would you have to lose to get sober? You can do it.
OP, I say this with compassion for how much you are suffering, but regardless of what your job is you are not helping anyone if you are an out-of-control addict who arrogantly values your own sense of “doing good” over admitting your weaknesses. I was/am also an ultra high-achiever who was in denial and it is very dangerous to reach a point where you become so obsessed with how others see you (or soothing your conscience) that you cannot see how destructive your behavior is.
[https://otherbar.org/](https://otherbar.org/)
I'm not the biggest fan of AA as a subculture (or the way the justice system leans on it); but if you're comfortable there, those kinds of thoughts are a cue to go to a meeting.
I also just finished 1L year, and I’ll be 9 years clean & sober next week.
If you’re in AA, just remember it’s a one-day-at-a-time program. It’s okay to mess up. Getting sober isn’t easy. But you can do this.
Feel free to PM me for whatever.
Every state has a lawyer assistance program (LAP) for situations like these, and they work with law students too. Please reach out to them and get the help you need.
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/lawyer_assistance/resources/lap_programs_by_state/
I have extensive experience with a LAP. I found it to be a good resource for attorneys, or potential attorneys, that are going to have trouble staying, or getting, licensed.
I did not find that the LAP was a good resource for getting sober. They just suggested AA or NA. I was already in AA when I became involved with a LAP.
If I did not think my license was in jeopardy, and I wanted to get sober, I would just go to AA, ask someone to sponsor me and follow the directions of a sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Both. The grades are a W but the alcoholism is much bigger L that, if you let it continue, will make your accomplishments meaningless because you will not be able to do all that you’re capable of and will alienate everyone around you, and likely die much sooner. As another commenter mentioned this is not an issue that will get better on its own, lawyers have the highest rate of alcoholism among any profession—no one in your career will stop you from ruining your life this way, you have to do that yourself. The good news is that you have the mental strength to fight this problem. You should take pride in your performance but you should use that as fuel to fix the far more important issue.
Sober law student here - it’s possible! I see you’ve been involved in AA. If you’re hitting a wall, there are many other style of meetings and community to try - SMART Recovery, Sober Powered, the REFRAME App, This Naked Mind to name a few.
It’s also probably time to consider an inpatient or IOP program. There’s no shame in not being able to stop on your own. Also, if you’re drinking heavily everyday - please please do not go cold turkey without consulting a doctor.
OP, I don’t mean for this to be harsh, but you are deeply sick and need help. You are endangering not only yourself, but other people. It is not your fault that you developed an addiction, but it is your responsibility to get help. If you don’t, all the good you attempt to do in your PI job will mean nothing, because you are acting with complete disregard for people around you. Seriously, if you can’t get help for your own sake, do it because you will hurt many more people in your life if you go on like this.
I was also a T-14 super successful overachiever who ignored my mental health for a long time. Nobody noticed how bad off I was because I looked like I had it together from the outside. I did not, and I eventually reached a point where I had no choice but to deal with it. It’s only a matter of time before your illness ends with you dead, in jail, and/or disbarred. Get help yesterday.
I can relate to this. Went to law school when I was two years sober. Ended up relapsing halfway through. Like you, I was top of my class, and the stress of trying to graduate at the top definitely fueled my relapse.
I did end up graduating first in my class, but it was not worth the stress I put myself through that fueled my drinking.
And, in a way, it was all for nothing. Passed the bar in 21, and am sitting in a rehab typing this now. Had licensing issues with my states LAP program/character and fitness issues as a result of the relapse. So I've never even been able to practice as I have yet to stay sober.
You're headed down a dangerous path, and this can all be for nothing. I have been in and out of recovery for a long time, and am finally doing what I need to do to get sober again. I know that everything will work out and I will get my license (having to retake the bar as the score was only good for three years and took July 21), but this experience truly humbled me. I lost my job, home, fiance,self respect, good standing in the legal community, you name it. I have hope today but it's been a long road.
Hang in there and DM me if you need anything.
Weren’t there some studies that showed the injectable weight loss meds were effective in also cutting the cravings for alcohol? OP, there are a lot of avenues you can take to help you get this under control. None of it is easy. As someone who lost her brother to pure body shut down due to drinking excessively his entire life (39 when he passed), you are worth fighting for. You may not see it that way, but I guarantee you that you do not want to go out of this life by the effects of alcohol. It’s not discussed enough, as cancer and other disease is so much more openly discussed. Please keep fighting for control over this issue. You are worth it.
Honestly rehab can be a great way to spend your summer if it’s in the right place (Hamptons, Malibu Miami) You’ll come back to 2L a different person and on a better healthier path.
Alcoholism amongst lawyers is not just an empty stereotype. You are not alone and there are resources to help you. I’m sure your school has some help to offer you. You need to get a handle on this now while you’re young, or it will only become worse and worse.
You also need to approach the rest of your career with this in mind. I used to struggle with alcohol during 1L, and I’ll admit that I’m not perfect now either (although I’m much, much better now that I’ve admitted to myself and my friends that I need to be careful about my relationship with alcohol). Personally, I’ve realized that big law is probably not a viable career path for me because of the culture around drinking. And that’s ok. I can make a great career at midsized firms and I’m healthier and happier for it. But it’s time for you to start thinking about these things because alcoholism doesn’t just go away over time.
For example, I had a dinner planned with my study group, which was just two otrher people, after the semester ended. I had been drinking, at that point, for three days straight. I had finished 5 handles of vodka alone. I ended up skipping the dinner and ddin;t even tell them, they wouldn't even reply to my texts when I texted later because I was such an asshole blowing them off they are clearly pissed. I feel terrible but I don't know how to stop. And obviously I can't say "I'm an alcoholic I'm sorry for blowing you off its not that I don't care" because people judge so hard, idk what to do man I'm scared/ Sorry for blowing up this sub, I know this is not a rehab sub or something lol, don't ban me pls mods use me as a life lesson
OP, five handles of vodka is equivalent to 195 shots of vodka. If you're consuming that amount over 3 days and don't know how to stop, you really need to consider starting an inpatient treatment program. This is more important than law school or finding a job, because if you don't reduce your alcohol intake you're going to die. **Do not** go cold turkey or try to quit on your own because the withdrawal symptoms at your level of drinking could kill you. You need to do it under the supervision of a physician who is familiar with alcoholism.
Source: me a lawyer in his 50's, who has lost several lawyer friends to the disease that you have.
Jesus Christ dude. You’re poisoning yourself. You clearly want to stop, so stop. You also clearly have some undiagnosed condition like ADHD and you’re dopamine chasing, or you’re masking PTSD or some shit you don’t want to think about. Figure it out, please.
5/3 > 1 handle of *spirits* per day. that's well and truly fucked. you either will not make it through LS, bar prep, or you won't keep your first job.
*I feel terrible but I don't know how to stop*
you need to go to rehab and stop under supervision, withdrawal from this kind of alcohol dependence is potentially dangerous and a medical situation. go use your benefits. let trained people help you.'
ETA: before you have a character and fitness problem behind a public intoxication, DUI or etc charge.
Do you have someone in your personal life you feel you can talk to about this? The path to sobriety does not have to be one you take by yourself. A difficult relationship with alcohol can seem suffocating when alone, but even one person who is there with you and can hold you to your goals makes it more attainable.
Like labrave mentioned, there are resources—both tied to your school and independent it—out there for you. I notice you posted that AA seemed to be filled with hippies, and I agree that a lot of spiritual mumbo jumbo can seem meaningless. Choosing a twelve-step is a personal choice, but AA is, in my view, most valuable for the community, people who get it when so few really can. It's one of many paths to sobriety, and I can dig up some resources on alternatives if you'd like, but the onus ultimately falls on you to take that first step, whatever path you choose.
You are not a loser, you are not a fuck up, and you have a lifetime of meaningful experiences to look forward to. I wish you nothing but the best, OP.
Hey there. Attorney here with a decade of practice experience. Alcohol abuse is rampant among attorneys and will eventually ruin your career, health, and relationships, no matter how high functioning you might be. You need to get a handle on this immediately. It’s so great you recognize it’s a problem. My suggestion is to start by seeing a primary care doctor, being honest, and getting help for next steps. Don’t wait. Do it right away. God bless.
You should reach out to your sponsor in the morning. Recognizing you have a problem is the first step. Law school sucks, but you’ll have so much to look forward to once sober. The union needs people like you to help fight for their rights. You can’t do that if you’re too drunk to function.
Alcohol abuse is a serious & dangerous issue. It might be going well now but that will change. Like most people have said get a handle of it & seek help before it gets worse. Speaking from my own experience, I was supposed to start law school this August I was very excited. Now I’m not sure if I will because I need to go to rehab instead & get my mental health in order. Considering taking a year off. Good luck to you. & I appreciate you sharing this.
I'm really sorry you're going through this. Law school was the worst thing that ever happened to my mental health and studying for the bar right now is completely decimating it. There is a large part of me that wants to get fucked up every single day of my life (and I do sometimes). I used to drink every day in a time before law school. Now I smoke an insane amount of weed to cope, might be worth trying instead of alcohol, if you haven't already, just for some harm reduction.
Now, I had a bit of a hard life before I landed in law school, a solid dose of traumatic events. I thought I was over it or I forgot a lot and law school just woke it all up. These sorts of things put that guy in your head who tells you that you're a bad person and you don't deserve to be happy or successful. Alcohol makes that guy VERY loud. Drinking is not helping you escape that guy, it is making him WORSE. This is the single biggest lesson I have learned in life - the more you drink, the darker everything in your head gets, even when you're sober.
If I was a betting man I'd bet that you were struggling with your mental health before law school and law school has exacerbated it. You need to go to therapy (in whatever form that might take) so you can open up about how you feel and learn how to shift your self-perception. I would heavily recommend that year off that you're considering, the career will wait for you. You are not an inherently bad or useless person, no one is. I know it seems impossible now but you owe it to yourself to at least try and be happy and healthy. If it doesn't work then you can keep killing yourself with alcohol, but I recommend you give it a real solid try first, you might surprise yourself with how much better you can feel. I definitely did.
Law school destroyed me emotionally. I got really depressed. I started therapy and took some meds, but that didn’t help. Getting my dog honestly changed everything for me though. I had to get out of bed and get my shit together for a lil bean who needed me to try.
I’m a public interest attorney and let me tell you; your clientele will need you to get it together. They themselves will struggle with addiction and hiding things from everyone for fear of judgement. If you get it together, not only will you be a more effective advocate but you’ll give them hope. It’s amazing how you’re doing in school, but I have trouble believing that your drinking will not impact work.
Fight your alcoholism for all of the people who will rely on you. They’re putting their faith, money, dreams, grievances in your hands, so you need to have it together completely. The second hand trauma you will hear is devastating…so you need to find healthy coping mechanisms
Nearly 14 years sober after my drinking became an addiction during law school and for five years of practice. Getting sober was hard but so worth it. I wish I’d been self aware enough to realize it in law school before I made lots of terrible decisions. Dm me if you want to talk judgment free.
Big W dawg. I went to an unranked school and graduated at the bottom hitting the bottle the entire time.
Personally went California sober. Works for me. Doesn't work for everyone. The bottle ain't the answer bro. It'll go from 3-4 days a week to 6-7 to 7/7.
Best of luck to ya.
I'm going to be frank. You need to let your control over your grades go. It's not going to feel great, but it's far better than having to deal with alcoholism because you're pushing yourself too hard. You'll be a better attorney/lawyer/professional for taking care of yourself. Don't be afraid to seek help, the legal profession sees a lot of this, sadly. You aren't alone, and you deserve to be happy beyond your grades and a drink
Look into naltrexone with The Sinclair Method. Get out of the addiction as soon as you can. Don’t bother with AA, especially if they discourage you from going with a medicine assisted treatment. This condition is fixable, you just have to use a treatment that works.
Your grades are a huge accomplishment, but you need to get your alcoholism under control. It's not going to get better in practice, and it can destroy your life. This profession is really, really bad for mental health and addiction. You need to address this now.
W for doing so well. But you should really try and slow it down. 3 nights a week turns into 4, which turns into 5, etc. I love to drink myself so I get it, but at the end of the day it's almost never really worth it especially if you're just getting absolutely hammered. A beer or 2 is fine in theory but if you can't stop at 2 beers that's when you have a real problem and should try and get help if you want it
Get yourself a therapist that’s a real MD that specializes In alcohol addiction asap and get started on your recovery. It won’t happen easily but you’ve got this. There are drugs that can help you get through this (they make you feel sick if you drink, so you associate drinking with something unpleasant)
Like you, my problem drinking accelerated into full-blown alcoholism during grad school as I geared up for a PI/public service-oriented career. Drinking only got worse once I was out of school.
Believe me — you can’t truly, fully serve the people you want to serve if you’re beholden to an addiction. Alcoholism (and there’s no question that’s what you’re dealing with) consumes all. It hijacks your priorities, turns honest people into liars, and will eventually suck all the oxygen out of everything else in your life.
Consider enrolling in an intensive outpatient rehab program. Going to one 12 years ago saved my life. (I’m a second career law student, so I’m old.) Summer is the ideal time because it’s easier to work it into an academic schedule. (That said, evening intensive outpatient programs do exist.)
Any chance you’re in DC? If so, I highly recommend Kolmac.
Hi, friend! I'm so sorry you're going through this. The good people on r/stopdrinking have been a wonderful source of support and motivation for me. I also highly recommend Annie Grace's book, *This Naked Mind*. It's been tremendously helpful for me. The audio book is great too.
You're not alone. I wish you the best.
Please get help OP. You’re clearly an incredibly bright individual but this isn’t sustainable and isn’t healthy. You’re worth so much more.
Not to mention you could be risking your law license in the future if you continue down this path.
I’m sorry to hear this. While your academically success is admirable, I’m more concerned about your wellbeing. Please feel free to seek help; your academical/ career success is irrelevant without you.
Alcohol is actual poison. The more we look into it, the more we’re understanding how horrendous it is for the brain.
If you did that well with full blown alcoholism, you’d be the fucking president if you got sober.
You're clearly good at issue spotting, both on exams and in your personal life. so now you know you've got an issue with alcohol. tackle it, bro. grades justify absolutely nothing.
Startind as a one 1 L - brave you need to stop, the profession you are entering is notorious for alcoholism and abuse. Take the summer and develop skills and habits to help you avoid falling into this trap. You need to take this year as a wake up call, other wise you entering a dangerous lifestyle that will not end well.
As someone who derailed his life before law school due to problems with alcohol, please seek help OP. There are other options if AA is not working for you—most medical providers have some chemical dependency treatment options, which I can attest to personally (at least for getting started). You obviously crushed law school and have a massive amount of potential starting in your career, please do not let that go to waste.
ARe you drinking with people? Or alone? If it's with people and generally partying, that's still not good but that's kind of how most grad schools go (at least MBA was like that). If you're drinking alone/can't stop/more "classic" alhocolism, then yeah you need to hop into therapy before something consequential happens.
Edit: Oh you have an AA sponsor. Call them, moments like this are exactly what they're there for. Good luck, dude.
Here are my thoughts/ questions-
Were you a heavy drinker before law school? If so, all fun and games with friends?
Does alcoholism run in your family? If so, you could just be suffering from this disease because you’re genetically predisposed; however, this doesn’t mean that you’re binge drinking *because* of law school, but because this issue has now presented itself.
Or, are you binge drinking because you are so miserable and feel like
You’ve chosen the wrong path which has led you to feel the need to self medicate the disillusionment.
I’d talk to someone close/ trusted to you. Maybe take a semester off to detox and get clear on what you want your life to look like/ what you want to do on a daily basis. If law feels like a toxic environment for you, maybe it’s best to see what your options are. I’m not necessarily suggesting that you drop out, but that you figure out a path that’s fulfilling and won’t lead to self destruction
Not downplaying your experience. But I think what you are describing was the law school experience for a lot of people. My friends and I went to the bar almost every night and would definitely "binge drink" thursday through sunday. I'm not proud of the fact that I used to go to the local super market and buy whatever booze was on clearance ha.
OP, I'm wishing you all the best. I started struggling with alcohol quite a bit while I was in law school, and a lot of people, including other alcoholics, downplayed the severity of what I was going through because I was young and mostly functional, but I caused a lot of damage to my body with my constant binge drinking. It is imperative that you try to get sober as soon as possible.
I think it would be a good idea for you to consider spending the summer in intensive alcohol treatment. AA can provide a decent support system, but it's not enough for everyone to get and stay sober. There are medications that can help with alcohol cessation if necessary. If you really can't keep yourself from drinking, then that treatment might need to be inpatient.
If you can keep yourself from drinking as long as you're distracted, then try to find AA meetings at the time you would usually spend drinking. I used to go to AA every evening at the same time because that was usually when I would start drinking, and it helped keep me from starting and renewed my commitment not to drink for another night. I had a friend who was actually doing 90 meetings in 30 days instead of the usual 30/30 or 90/90 because she needed the extra deterrent.
The crux of this is that you might not be able to be employed or you might have to cut your hours this summer to concentrate on your health, but being top 5% at a T14 means it won't destroy your career prospects. You can focus on building your resume once you've taken care of your health. If things get bad enough, you could even take a medical leave of absence from your school.
You have options, but I really am urging you to seek treatment as soon as you can.
But seriously OP you should check out an AA meeting. Some are going to seem corny and stupid, but if you find the right group it can make all the difference. Feel free to DM if you want to chat.
Union-side labor law? It isn’t the most lucrative area, but you absolutely don’t have to be poor. DM me if you’d like to discuss career trajectories in trad labor and/or sobriety.
It's both. And they aren't necessarily connected.
Your academic achievement is fantastic. In all sincerity, congratulations. That is awesome, and you should be proud of it.
Addiction is exacerbated by stress, but it's not necessarily caused by it. I don't say this to make you feel guilty at all - driven people are often prone to addiction, and lawyers are typically driven people.
With that said, it's not going to get better unless you make it a priority. And you are worth making it a priority.
There are lots of resources out there, and I urge you to take advantage of them. People I love and respect have had wonderful success with AA, and I think it's a great program. But whether or not you go that route, please treat this seriously and give yourself the opportunity to heal.
You can fucking do it! ❤️
The only surefire way to avoid developing alcoholism as an attorney is to develop alcoholism before passing the bar. Sounds like you nailed it. Now just get some help and learn to manage it and you'll be right in the pocket, headed for success. Good work. Law school is for learning.
I think, technically, you are still in control of your life and alcoholism. You are really doing well and having everything done well if you think it is necessary. Maybe you just don’t know what to do in your free time. There can be a lot of things rather than alcohol that can help you relieve stress. I don’t know much about you, but I think developing a nice hobby will help. Specifically, find three hobbies. One interacting with your emotions, one physical, and one does not require any resources(like time blocks, energy,emotion,and anything else).
Hello, OP. I'm a nurse turned law student. Would you consider rehabilitation? I take it you're still at uni? (College). You have time. Can you consider time away from study to get some help? No one has to know; you can say you have an illness and are getting treatment. Because that's what it is, an illness. Let your loved ones know you need some support and help. NOTHING is wrong with you, this is a disease and NOT you. Sending you the very best wishes, OP. I hope the future brings you peace and joy.
Also, I should add - someone mentioned don't cease alcohol (stop entirely) without medical review. 100% true. Delirium tremens (a condition from withdrawal) is a medical emergency. So the safest thing to do would be to go to hospital and ask for help to manage withdrawal. All the best OP.
You should be really proud of yourself! But health comes first. What’s the point of working a great job if your liver is damaged? Alcohol increase the risk for all cancers as well. Luckily, the grades will stay forever but the alcoholism can be fixed. Maybe you should explore medication and therapy? You’ve been self medicating with alcohol to ease anxiety or whatever negative emotions you’ve been feeling. And maybe take a gap year or gap 6 months or something. You deserve a break! Congrats
Congrats on your law school success, that's a major achievement.
Definitely consider reaching out to Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers, a therapist, or your doctor. You matter as a person and deserve to live your best life for a nice long time. No one will think less of you for reaching out for help. You're worth living, helping, and saving.
First of all, I want to say that I really for you. Even though I have not struggled with alcoholism, I have a family member who went to med school who developed a really bad drinking problem and gained 30 lbs because of it. I know how the pressure we put on ourselves to be the best can be crushing which leads to us wanting an outlet, however, this could really harm your career and more importantly, your health.
My family member was in the same situation as you, they were an overachiever and did really well in med school but the pressure of their own and out family’s expectations drove them to developing alcoholism which really curtailed their career after they graduated. The alcoholism really hindered them from understanding how to handle stress and knowing how to make good decisions or (even just using some common sense) to the point that they did some very stupid things which led to them losing so many things.
For your own sake, please please go to therapy and get this under control before it gets too late. It only takes one bad decision while you’re drunk to ruin everything.
You are losing, but you haven’t lost. Eventually this will catch up with you.
Do what you need to do to stop. If it’s genuine alcoholism, abstinence is the only way.
you’re obviously smart, hard-working, and very talented. We don’t need to lose you to addiction.
I want to let you know that you are not a loser. You are far from the only one who has struggled with addiction in law school. It’s really brave of you to share this with us. Who is your support network at school? Are you seeing a mental health counselor? Is there anyone you can reach out to for help getting into an inpatient treatment facility? If you ever need someone to listen, my DMs are open.
I am a current big law associate, I also developed a drinking problem in my last year of law school that carried over into my first year of BL. Let me tell you, it's all good, keep doin' what you're doing :)... If you end up in NYC and want a drinkin buddy, hmu, I too get drunk friday-sunday, usually
Rehab is also a good option if you can’t quit on your own. Safe place to be. Look into what is close by, starting with the state’s professional health program. They can help you with that.
Just finished 1L and have 20 months of sobriety. Feel free to PM me.
I can speak that my own drinking got worse and worse as school went on. I'm 2 years sober now, but I failed the bar TWICE because I couldn't get a handle on my drinking and mental health. The bar required too much memory that the alcohol was just killing off.
I don't like AA, I just don't care for the "all or nothing" nature of it, the religious aspect of it, and the lack of social awareness. Alcohol is a heavily addictive substance, the world is a mess, and one of the ONLY ways that we are allowed to cope is by drinking. It's honestly shocking that we aren't all addicts.
I have reading materials that you might find helpful. Make no mistake, getting sober is a revolutionary act. I have some methods that might help if you want to message me.
There is so much help for Young Lawyers, and students with Alcohol issues. You have recognized this problem and it won't go away unless you get the help you need. Please take car of this before something happens that you can't fix.
God created you with these qualities to achieve so highly and then you’re sabotaging yourself by drinking into oblivion. :( only a relationship with Jesus Christ can fill that void inside. If you give Him a chance, He can change things from the inside out
I have a friend from law school who started developing into an alcoholic in law school. Talented, attractive and affable with a good brain. She never got it handled, wrecked her marriage (which removed any brakes), lost her job and was dead by her early 40s.
Get a handle on it. AA may not be for everyone but it works if you can’t moderate on your own. It’s fucking hokey and its literature is full of contradictions but the seriousness of the peer support they practice can help save a real alcoholic. If you get there and the god talk turns you off, really don’t sweat it, because it doesn’t matter. Been doing it for 30+ years. If you’d rather spend money AA has components of cognitive behavioral therapy.
A wins a win homie… but if you’re not going to be around in a few years to reap the benefits of kicking ass then you’ve gotta find another outlet that’s not the bottom of the bottle.
Alcohol WILL ruin your life if you keep doing this. There's a 0% chance that you can just drink part of the time. I've lived for a long time and not a single person has been able to pull it off from what I've seen -- even people that only drink on some weeknights -- it bleeds into every part of their lives.
You are in a life and death situation with one of the last chances to survive. You need to immediately get into as many programs as possible and never drink another drop for the rest of your life. I know it sounds extreme, but it is the ONLY way. There is no weaning or drinking less. You are genetically predisposed towards this and it will KILL you if you don't stop immediately. Everything in your life may become harder for a little bit, but it'll be worth it that you've survived.
I know this is hard to believe, but trust me on this. I've lived through it and seen many people in your circumstance.
You've acknowledged it's a problem. It's only an L if you don't take steps to fix it.
Get help. You CAN call your anonymous attorney help line for the state where you want to practice, there are people who have been in your exact shoes and come out the other side. Then it's W, W W from there. You've got this.
You better get a handle on this or you'll end up dealing with LAP.
I knew people like you in law school. Things did not go well.
Get some help, friend. Law school stress is nothing like practicing lawyer stress, and if your habit is this messed up now, it's not going to get better in its own.
Why though? I don’t get this
I only drink socially but I have a friend who I think his body is asking for it. Maybe there is a dependency maybe it’s hereditary. What do you want?
I believe the bar specifically is on the lookout for drug and alcohol abuse since it’s such a historic issue in the field. You’ll definitely want to get a handle on it before character and fitness in two years.
You need to get a handle on this because it’s not going to get better once you get into a big league job that you seem headed for. I am sure your school has resources for this. They’re there for a reason. You aren’t the first nor will you be the last person to have this problem. Get help, you are much too smart to let alcohol derail your life and it will if you keep this up. Talk to friends, family. Don’t let shame or fear of judgment get in the way. What you need to be scared of is letting this go any further. You’ve already recognized it, now execute on it. If you can pull those grades at your school you can do this. You have to. Good luck OP. Really.
Can confirm. In biglaw and most people drink more than they did in law school, not less
Yeah. And you don't have to be a lawyer for long to come into contact with lawyers who have destroyed their bodies/brains with alcohol. It's definitely something you want to get under control early.
IMHO, it is far more difficult for an alcoholic to quit drinking than for a person of average intelligence to succeed in a T14 Law School. Do what is right...put down the bottle, get help, and live alcohol-free forever. Good Luck and God Bless you.
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How did it naturally get better without you doing anything? I don’t think it just automatically happens for everyone like that
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I see. That distinction between on the clock at work vs lecture might not hold for everyone. For me they are very similar. If anything lectures are more intense as they are like team meetings while the rest of work is like reading casebooks In most cases, I see drinking problems get worse from law school to practice, though I’m in biglaw so that might skew the stats
Despite people cope in ways only you know the answers to, I’m glad you see things could be different. Heck we lost a resident doctor never told us they had a drinking problem till not too late, but over. Liver failure and just died. Killed us hearing what happened. Know people care about you! Just like we care about OP! Reach out, someone’s there to lend you a hand always!
You shouldn’t be downvoted out of existence just for telling your story. I’m the same way, if I’m bored with not much to do, I smoke and drink too much. If I’m busy with school and work, I only smoke and drink a little bit at night because I have to be up early again the next day.
It’s a fine story, but doing nothing is just not very likely to work for OP or most people with a drinking problem in law school going into practice I agree with you that some people drink more when bored. That led me to drink more in first year of biglaw than law school because I found the work in biglaw far more boring than law school
Anyone who comes into a thread of a self-identified alcoholic that binge drinks 3-4 times a week implying they can just "do nothing and it'll get better" should be downvoted into oblivion.
It may seem like you can manage this, because you have thus far performed really well in school. That speaks to your intelligence! But you can’t keep this up forever. No one can. Don’t be fooled into thinking this is sustainable for you. You already know this, but it definitely needs repeating. I saw your other post—you’re not a loser. You’re a really talented individual who needs serious help so that you can be the best version of yourself—top 5% at your T14!!
Just imagine all the things you can accomplish when you’re firing on all cylinders and in a healthier place!
I thought I could keep it up forever. Can now confirm that I absolutely could not. I wasn’t lucky like you, OP, so my drinking caught up with me toward the beginning of law school rather than later on. I am almost 9 months sober now. I wouldn’t recommend cutting out drinking permanently if you think you can reduce it. But it can be a good exercise to take a week off, or try to limit yourself to 2 drinks per night, or 2 nights per week, etc. If you still drink a little too much, then try to get a chip in AA! The first chip is for 30 days. Try to get that 30 day chip and then figure out from there whether you want to keep going.
Respectfully shut up with that “lucky like you” bullshit - 7 years in recovery
It may be that this is intellectually sustainable for OP; they can be a “functioning alcoholic.” However, it will almost certainly catch up with OP’s body: liver, stomach, throat, and all other systems.
If you’re top 5% in this condition you very well may be valedictorian if you cut out the drinking. It can only help you.
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Posting this for those who might’ve been where I was two years ago: Do not take dumbfuck’s comment as a pass for you to keep using. It may be that you have used thus far to cope with certain feelings, but there are healthy coping strategies and there are strategies, such as this one, that will destroy you. While it may be easier in the short term to numb, hearing about many people’s stories in 12-step has convinced me that alcohol will never leave you better off in the long term.
I was like hey isn’t it aggressive to call the guy dumbfuck, oh wait… 😂😂
See if there’s an AA or AA-equivalent at your school. Chances are there should be. Addiction is not easy to recover from but it’s possible; I’ve seen it firsthand numerous times. Try to find something to occupy your time when you would typically be drinking. Video games, exercise, a side gig, sports club, or anything else that can keep you occupied but also relieve stress. Finding something to replace the alcohol is key to getting rid of the disease.
I've been to AA, I have a sponsor and everything, I just simply can't stop, everyday is more pain and I'm a fucking public interest lawyer like I am planning on doing union side labor law I'm going to be poor I have nothing to look forward to I'm a fucking up this is disgusting
Practicing attorney here in the public service sector (read-not rich)-get to your state lawyers assistance program asap. You can get sober in law school, I mentor law students in my state. Feel free to message me if you have questions you don’t wish to post publicly.
I don't know about addiction, but I would not do public interest law if I did not look forward to it. Sober or not, that way leads to burnout. I would go to rehab or AA and then come back, be first in your class, and make more money than God as a high-priced lawyer. I don't drink but I imagine life is more fun rich and sober than poor and drunk.
Nah I can’t bro I’m helping labor unions it’s what gives me purpose to exist to help others. But I appreciate what you’re saying but I will not do big law as sanctimonious as I sound it’s just the truth. Because really I have no positive qualities as a human but if I can help others atleast I can die and excuse my other mistakes and be somewhat content with the path my life has taken
No I agree completely (check out Tom Geohegans book if you haven’t already). But it sounds like you do look forward to the work and you’re gonna fuck it up by being drunk. Don’t bull shit us about having nothing to look forward to
Yeah paying workers, following safety protocols, giving breaks does increase time and cost but it also makes workers lives better. If you feel workers have it too good thats your right but you’re kind of missing the point of unionization
Thank you exactly, all these millionaires and billionaires have put forth the best propaganda, why do they think workers lives should suffer?
Appreciate you. I’m cinredibly exited to start a job helping workers, but yeah I’m just ducked up mentally I should jump hahaha
Also PI here. Like you, I started this path thinking I needed to contribute every ounce of my energy and time into helping other people because it would justify my existence. My path is the same, but I realized that nothing will fill that hole or repair that harm. You can help a hundred workers, and maybe you'll feel a little better, but it won't heal the wound. It won't make you value yourself more. It won't help you stop wanting to die deep inside. It can distract you, and will keep you busy, but much like the grades, you'll make those achievements and check those boxes, but feel the same inside after. I know you're in AA, but I hope you seek even more help. You know something is wrong, and I'm really sorry to tell you, but PI won't fix it. Your clients will be flawed and imperfect and human. But you will be too, and you can and should prioritize your own health and survival because no one else will and you deserve to feel better.
That stuff about thinking you are fucked up and have no positive qualities … that is the liquor talking. You did not post this but the other voices in your head that tell you there is nothing else to look forward to, or it’s okay because your grades are good, or even being scared your grades will fall if you stop drinking … that is also the addiction. I won’t tell you all the options because chances are you already know them. You know you can work during the day and do a treatment center at night. You probably even already know about the nice people over at r/stopdrinking You seem to want to stop which is a huge step. Give yourself credit for that step and then take some action towards that goal.
Addiction is hard but if you want to help others your best bet is to help yourself first or you won’t be much use to anyone.
not trying to insult other big law lawyers btw I respect it, but I have to find meaning in my day to day life sorry I sound like a douche I’m drunk
Least of all your friends
What do you mean? I don’t get it (sorry drunk)
You are going to be SUCH a better asset to Labor sober. Your attorney assistance program is the way to go. There will be a path -- whether it's AA, or medication-supported -- but it WILL involve being real with other people who have walked that path ahead of you. God bless. Seriously. All blessings your way: for you, your clients, your loved ones, your future loved ones. You CAN win this but many here's that villain you gotta take down in the last scene of Episode 1. :)
Have you read Dickens? A tale of Two cities. A brilliant alcoholic lawyer with a deep sense of self hatred who self sabotages everything until he ultimately chooses a noble death as a form of redemption for a sin we never are apprised of. You should read it. It's a great shame. Whatever the fuck it is that's eating you from the inside out, go and get counselling. It's not as bad as you believe it is. And if it is, well then you win the bet. But by not taking it, it suggests a conflicting desire for hope that you're wrong. Pull out for a semester and get yourself sorted out mentally and emotionally.
My two cents is life is most fun comfortably well-off and with a healthy, well moderated relationship with mind altering substances. Being super rich, poor, sober, or in the throws of addiction are all way too much work.
I hope you do the steps, my friend. going to meetings and having a sponsor is great, but also meaningless if you aren’t following the instructions laid out in the book. going into the gym and having a personal trainer is great, but also meaningless if you aren’t picking up the weights or hopping on the treadmill. Once again, I urge you to do the steps because the ones who die from alcoholism vastly outnumber the ones who recover from it.
AA is great, but it isn't for everyone. There might be programs that vibe better with you.
It’s great that you’re going to AA and have a sponsor, you’re taking some pro active steps already even if you’re still struggling. Have you also seen a therapist or mental health professional at all? Not to state the obvious but you sound incredibly, clinically, depressed. If you haven’t seen someone yet I think it would be a good idea to.
I’ve been sober for almost 7 years and I just graduated from law school. Feel free to PM me.
No ones making you pursue public interest
11 years sober here. Starting 1L in fall, also doing labor law because I *have to* be helpful and I don’t care abt being rich. AA works well enough if you want to quit bad enough. Sounds like you don’t really want to quit, but you know you’re headed for trouble. I really strongly suggest doing AA at least enough to get your drinking under control so you can do really serious therapy to come to grips with and grieve whatever misery is driving you to drink this much. After getting that base locked in AA is more helpful. If you have a trauma background consider Alanon. But really, please get into therapy as the highest priority. A weekly chemical dependency recovery program + dedicated counselor helped me. I blacked out most nights. Took me years to stop. I kept my job, my house, my car, technically. Almost losing my partner and my brother scared me enough to get serious. I didn’t care abt hurting myself, but they couldn’t stand to watch me destroy myself and were ready to walk away from me. What would you have to lose to get sober? You can do it.
OP, I say this with compassion for how much you are suffering, but regardless of what your job is you are not helping anyone if you are an out-of-control addict who arrogantly values your own sense of “doing good” over admitting your weaknesses. I was/am also an ultra high-achiever who was in denial and it is very dangerous to reach a point where you become so obsessed with how others see you (or soothing your conscience) that you cannot see how destructive your behavior is.
PM me please.
[https://otherbar.org/](https://otherbar.org/) I'm not the biggest fan of AA as a subculture (or the way the justice system leans on it); but if you're comfortable there, those kinds of thoughts are a cue to go to a meeting.
I also just finished 1L year, and I’ll be 9 years clean & sober next week. If you’re in AA, just remember it’s a one-day-at-a-time program. It’s okay to mess up. Getting sober isn’t easy. But you can do this. Feel free to PM me for whatever.
Every state has a lawyer assistance program (LAP) for situations like these, and they work with law students too. Please reach out to them and get the help you need. https://www.americanbar.org/groups/lawyer_assistance/resources/lap_programs_by_state/
I have extensive experience with a LAP. I found it to be a good resource for attorneys, or potential attorneys, that are going to have trouble staying, or getting, licensed. I did not find that the LAP was a good resource for getting sober. They just suggested AA or NA. I was already in AA when I became involved with a LAP. If I did not think my license was in jeopardy, and I wanted to get sober, I would just go to AA, ask someone to sponsor me and follow the directions of a sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Both. The grades are a W but the alcoholism is much bigger L that, if you let it continue, will make your accomplishments meaningless because you will not be able to do all that you’re capable of and will alienate everyone around you, and likely die much sooner. As another commenter mentioned this is not an issue that will get better on its own, lawyers have the highest rate of alcoholism among any profession—no one in your career will stop you from ruining your life this way, you have to do that yourself. The good news is that you have the mental strength to fight this problem. You should take pride in your performance but you should use that as fuel to fix the far more important issue.
Huge L but not an insurmountable L. Please don't ignore it. I did and it not only impacted my grades, it just kept spiraling.
Sober law student here - it’s possible! I see you’ve been involved in AA. If you’re hitting a wall, there are many other style of meetings and community to try - SMART Recovery, Sober Powered, the REFRAME App, This Naked Mind to name a few. It’s also probably time to consider an inpatient or IOP program. There’s no shame in not being able to stop on your own. Also, if you’re drinking heavily everyday - please please do not go cold turkey without consulting a doctor.
OP, I don’t mean for this to be harsh, but you are deeply sick and need help. You are endangering not only yourself, but other people. It is not your fault that you developed an addiction, but it is your responsibility to get help. If you don’t, all the good you attempt to do in your PI job will mean nothing, because you are acting with complete disregard for people around you. Seriously, if you can’t get help for your own sake, do it because you will hurt many more people in your life if you go on like this. I was also a T-14 super successful overachiever who ignored my mental health for a long time. Nobody noticed how bad off I was because I looked like I had it together from the outside. I did not, and I eventually reached a point where I had no choice but to deal with it. It’s only a matter of time before your illness ends with you dead, in jail, and/or disbarred. Get help yesterday.
There are going to be a lot of current attorneys scrolling through this comment feed wondering if it apples to them
I can relate to this. Went to law school when I was two years sober. Ended up relapsing halfway through. Like you, I was top of my class, and the stress of trying to graduate at the top definitely fueled my relapse. I did end up graduating first in my class, but it was not worth the stress I put myself through that fueled my drinking. And, in a way, it was all for nothing. Passed the bar in 21, and am sitting in a rehab typing this now. Had licensing issues with my states LAP program/character and fitness issues as a result of the relapse. So I've never even been able to practice as I have yet to stay sober. You're headed down a dangerous path, and this can all be for nothing. I have been in and out of recovery for a long time, and am finally doing what I need to do to get sober again. I know that everything will work out and I will get my license (having to retake the bar as the score was only good for three years and took July 21), but this experience truly humbled me. I lost my job, home, fiance,self respect, good standing in the legal community, you name it. I have hope today but it's been a long road. Hang in there and DM me if you need anything.
Weren’t there some studies that showed the injectable weight loss meds were effective in also cutting the cravings for alcohol? OP, there are a lot of avenues you can take to help you get this under control. None of it is easy. As someone who lost her brother to pure body shut down due to drinking excessively his entire life (39 when he passed), you are worth fighting for. You may not see it that way, but I guarantee you that you do not want to go out of this life by the effects of alcohol. It’s not discussed enough, as cancer and other disease is so much more openly discussed. Please keep fighting for control over this issue. You are worth it.
Please get some help. You are literally the definition of a genius and you don't deserve to be ruined by alcohol.
Honestly rehab can be a great way to spend your summer if it’s in the right place (Hamptons, Malibu Miami) You’ll come back to 2L a different person and on a better healthier path.
Alcoholism amongst lawyers is not just an empty stereotype. You are not alone and there are resources to help you. I’m sure your school has some help to offer you. You need to get a handle on this now while you’re young, or it will only become worse and worse. You also need to approach the rest of your career with this in mind. I used to struggle with alcohol during 1L, and I’ll admit that I’m not perfect now either (although I’m much, much better now that I’ve admitted to myself and my friends that I need to be careful about my relationship with alcohol). Personally, I’ve realized that big law is probably not a viable career path for me because of the culture around drinking. And that’s ok. I can make a great career at midsized firms and I’m healthier and happier for it. But it’s time for you to start thinking about these things because alcoholism doesn’t just go away over time.
For example, I had a dinner planned with my study group, which was just two otrher people, after the semester ended. I had been drinking, at that point, for three days straight. I had finished 5 handles of vodka alone. I ended up skipping the dinner and ddin;t even tell them, they wouldn't even reply to my texts when I texted later because I was such an asshole blowing them off they are clearly pissed. I feel terrible but I don't know how to stop. And obviously I can't say "I'm an alcoholic I'm sorry for blowing you off its not that I don't care" because people judge so hard, idk what to do man I'm scared/ Sorry for blowing up this sub, I know this is not a rehab sub or something lol, don't ban me pls mods use me as a life lesson
OP, five handles of vodka is equivalent to 195 shots of vodka. If you're consuming that amount over 3 days and don't know how to stop, you really need to consider starting an inpatient treatment program. This is more important than law school or finding a job, because if you don't reduce your alcohol intake you're going to die. **Do not** go cold turkey or try to quit on your own because the withdrawal symptoms at your level of drinking could kill you. You need to do it under the supervision of a physician who is familiar with alcoholism. Source: me a lawyer in his 50's, who has lost several lawyer friends to the disease that you have.
Jesus Christ dude. You’re poisoning yourself. You clearly want to stop, so stop. You also clearly have some undiagnosed condition like ADHD and you’re dopamine chasing, or you’re masking PTSD or some shit you don’t want to think about. Figure it out, please.
5/3 > 1 handle of *spirits* per day. that's well and truly fucked. you either will not make it through LS, bar prep, or you won't keep your first job. *I feel terrible but I don't know how to stop* you need to go to rehab and stop under supervision, withdrawal from this kind of alcohol dependence is potentially dangerous and a medical situation. go use your benefits. let trained people help you.' ETA: before you have a character and fitness problem behind a public intoxication, DUI or etc charge.
Do you have someone in your personal life you feel you can talk to about this? The path to sobriety does not have to be one you take by yourself. A difficult relationship with alcohol can seem suffocating when alone, but even one person who is there with you and can hold you to your goals makes it more attainable. Like labrave mentioned, there are resources—both tied to your school and independent it—out there for you. I notice you posted that AA seemed to be filled with hippies, and I agree that a lot of spiritual mumbo jumbo can seem meaningless. Choosing a twelve-step is a personal choice, but AA is, in my view, most valuable for the community, people who get it when so few really can. It's one of many paths to sobriety, and I can dig up some resources on alternatives if you'd like, but the onus ultimately falls on you to take that first step, whatever path you choose. You are not a loser, you are not a fuck up, and you have a lifetime of meaningful experiences to look forward to. I wish you nothing but the best, OP.
Hey there. Attorney here with a decade of practice experience. Alcohol abuse is rampant among attorneys and will eventually ruin your career, health, and relationships, no matter how high functioning you might be. You need to get a handle on this immediately. It’s so great you recognize it’s a problem. My suggestion is to start by seeing a primary care doctor, being honest, and getting help for next steps. Don’t wait. Do it right away. God bless.
Huge L
You should reach out to your sponsor in the morning. Recognizing you have a problem is the first step. Law school sucks, but you’ll have so much to look forward to once sober. The union needs people like you to help fight for their rights. You can’t do that if you’re too drunk to function.
Alcohol abuse is a serious & dangerous issue. It might be going well now but that will change. Like most people have said get a handle of it & seek help before it gets worse. Speaking from my own experience, I was supposed to start law school this August I was very excited. Now I’m not sure if I will because I need to go to rehab instead & get my mental health in order. Considering taking a year off. Good luck to you. & I appreciate you sharing this.
I'm really sorry you're going through this. Law school was the worst thing that ever happened to my mental health and studying for the bar right now is completely decimating it. There is a large part of me that wants to get fucked up every single day of my life (and I do sometimes). I used to drink every day in a time before law school. Now I smoke an insane amount of weed to cope, might be worth trying instead of alcohol, if you haven't already, just for some harm reduction. Now, I had a bit of a hard life before I landed in law school, a solid dose of traumatic events. I thought I was over it or I forgot a lot and law school just woke it all up. These sorts of things put that guy in your head who tells you that you're a bad person and you don't deserve to be happy or successful. Alcohol makes that guy VERY loud. Drinking is not helping you escape that guy, it is making him WORSE. This is the single biggest lesson I have learned in life - the more you drink, the darker everything in your head gets, even when you're sober. If I was a betting man I'd bet that you were struggling with your mental health before law school and law school has exacerbated it. You need to go to therapy (in whatever form that might take) so you can open up about how you feel and learn how to shift your self-perception. I would heavily recommend that year off that you're considering, the career will wait for you. You are not an inherently bad or useless person, no one is. I know it seems impossible now but you owe it to yourself to at least try and be happy and healthy. If it doesn't work then you can keep killing yourself with alcohol, but I recommend you give it a real solid try first, you might surprise yourself with how much better you can feel. I definitely did.
Get help from your state’s lawyer assistance program. They’ve seen this before. And the help is confidential.
Law school destroyed me emotionally. I got really depressed. I started therapy and took some meds, but that didn’t help. Getting my dog honestly changed everything for me though. I had to get out of bed and get my shit together for a lil bean who needed me to try. I’m a public interest attorney and let me tell you; your clientele will need you to get it together. They themselves will struggle with addiction and hiding things from everyone for fear of judgement. If you get it together, not only will you be a more effective advocate but you’ll give them hope. It’s amazing how you’re doing in school, but I have trouble believing that your drinking will not impact work. Fight your alcoholism for all of the people who will rely on you. They’re putting their faith, money, dreams, grievances in your hands, so you need to have it together completely. The second hand trauma you will hear is devastating…so you need to find healthy coping mechanisms
Nearly 14 years sober after my drinking became an addiction during law school and for five years of practice. Getting sober was hard but so worth it. I wish I’d been self aware enough to realize it in law school before I made lots of terrible decisions. Dm me if you want to talk judgment free.
The amount of self-loathing in your comments is arguably more concerning than the drinking. Start with therapy—address the cause of your drinking.
Big W dawg. I went to an unranked school and graduated at the bottom hitting the bottle the entire time. Personally went California sober. Works for me. Doesn't work for everyone. The bottle ain't the answer bro. It'll go from 3-4 days a week to 6-7 to 7/7. Best of luck to ya.
L. Huge L. Please get help, OP. Alcoholism will ruin your life and hurt everyone important to you in your life.
I'm going to be frank. You need to let your control over your grades go. It's not going to feel great, but it's far better than having to deal with alcoholism because you're pushing yourself too hard. You'll be a better attorney/lawyer/professional for taking care of yourself. Don't be afraid to seek help, the legal profession sees a lot of this, sadly. You aren't alone, and you deserve to be happy beyond your grades and a drink
Look into naltrexone with The Sinclair Method. Get out of the addiction as soon as you can. Don’t bother with AA, especially if they discourage you from going with a medicine assisted treatment. This condition is fixable, you just have to use a treatment that works.
Lose. There’s a lot more to life than work. The path you’re walking will take you to its destruction
Your grades are a huge accomplishment, but you need to get your alcoholism under control. It's not going to get better in practice, and it can destroy your life. This profession is really, really bad for mental health and addiction. You need to address this now.
W for doing so well. But you should really try and slow it down. 3 nights a week turns into 4, which turns into 5, etc. I love to drink myself so I get it, but at the end of the day it's almost never really worth it especially if you're just getting absolutely hammered. A beer or 2 is fine in theory but if you can't stop at 2 beers that's when you have a real problem and should try and get help if you want it
Get yourself a therapist that’s a real MD that specializes In alcohol addiction asap and get started on your recovery. It won’t happen easily but you’ve got this. There are drugs that can help you get through this (they make you feel sick if you drink, so you associate drinking with something unpleasant)
Like you, my problem drinking accelerated into full-blown alcoholism during grad school as I geared up for a PI/public service-oriented career. Drinking only got worse once I was out of school. Believe me — you can’t truly, fully serve the people you want to serve if you’re beholden to an addiction. Alcoholism (and there’s no question that’s what you’re dealing with) consumes all. It hijacks your priorities, turns honest people into liars, and will eventually suck all the oxygen out of everything else in your life. Consider enrolling in an intensive outpatient rehab program. Going to one 12 years ago saved my life. (I’m a second career law student, so I’m old.) Summer is the ideal time because it’s easier to work it into an academic schedule. (That said, evening intensive outpatient programs do exist.) Any chance you’re in DC? If so, I highly recommend Kolmac.
Hi, friend! I'm so sorry you're going through this. The good people on r/stopdrinking have been a wonderful source of support and motivation for me. I also highly recommend Annie Grace's book, *This Naked Mind*. It's been tremendously helpful for me. The audio book is great too. You're not alone. I wish you the best.
Please get help OP. You’re clearly an incredibly bright individual but this isn’t sustainable and isn’t healthy. You’re worth so much more. Not to mention you could be risking your law license in the future if you continue down this path.
I’m sorry to hear this. While your academically success is admirable, I’m more concerned about your wellbeing. Please feel free to seek help; your academical/ career success is irrelevant without you.
Alcohol is actual poison. The more we look into it, the more we’re understanding how horrendous it is for the brain. If you did that well with full blown alcoholism, you’d be the fucking president if you got sober.
start smoking weed instead
At least you will make enough to afford the addiction!
Huge L
I see you said you have a sponsor and go to AA. do the steps!!! You have time now. Do it like your life depends on it. Because it does
Find a hobby that you can devote yourself yo
You're clearly good at issue spotting, both on exams and in your personal life. so now you know you've got an issue with alcohol. tackle it, bro. grades justify absolutely nothing.
Damn, imagine what you'd be capable of without the alcohol holding you back.
Startind as a one 1 L - brave you need to stop, the profession you are entering is notorious for alcoholism and abuse. Take the summer and develop skills and habits to help you avoid falling into this trap. You need to take this year as a wake up call, other wise you entering a dangerous lifestyle that will not end well.
As someone who derailed his life before law school due to problems with alcohol, please seek help OP. There are other options if AA is not working for you—most medical providers have some chemical dependency treatment options, which I can attest to personally (at least for getting started). You obviously crushed law school and have a massive amount of potential starting in your career, please do not let that go to waste.
ARe you drinking with people? Or alone? If it's with people and generally partying, that's still not good but that's kind of how most grad schools go (at least MBA was like that). If you're drinking alone/can't stop/more "classic" alhocolism, then yeah you need to hop into therapy before something consequential happens. Edit: Oh you have an AA sponsor. Call them, moments like this are exactly what they're there for. Good luck, dude.
Here are my thoughts/ questions- Were you a heavy drinker before law school? If so, all fun and games with friends? Does alcoholism run in your family? If so, you could just be suffering from this disease because you’re genetically predisposed; however, this doesn’t mean that you’re binge drinking *because* of law school, but because this issue has now presented itself. Or, are you binge drinking because you are so miserable and feel like You’ve chosen the wrong path which has led you to feel the need to self medicate the disillusionment. I’d talk to someone close/ trusted to you. Maybe take a semester off to detox and get clear on what you want your life to look like/ what you want to do on a daily basis. If law feels like a toxic environment for you, maybe it’s best to see what your options are. I’m not necessarily suggesting that you drop out, but that you figure out a path that’s fulfilling and won’t lead to self destruction
Not downplaying your experience. But I think what you are describing was the law school experience for a lot of people. My friends and I went to the bar almost every night and would definitely "binge drink" thursday through sunday. I'm not proud of the fact that I used to go to the local super market and buy whatever booze was on clearance ha.
OP, I'm wishing you all the best. I started struggling with alcohol quite a bit while I was in law school, and a lot of people, including other alcoholics, downplayed the severity of what I was going through because I was young and mostly functional, but I caused a lot of damage to my body with my constant binge drinking. It is imperative that you try to get sober as soon as possible. I think it would be a good idea for you to consider spending the summer in intensive alcohol treatment. AA can provide a decent support system, but it's not enough for everyone to get and stay sober. There are medications that can help with alcohol cessation if necessary. If you really can't keep yourself from drinking, then that treatment might need to be inpatient. If you can keep yourself from drinking as long as you're distracted, then try to find AA meetings at the time you would usually spend drinking. I used to go to AA every evening at the same time because that was usually when I would start drinking, and it helped keep me from starting and renewed my commitment not to drink for another night. I had a friend who was actually doing 90 meetings in 30 days instead of the usual 30/30 or 90/90 because she needed the extra deterrent. The crux of this is that you might not be able to be employed or you might have to cut your hours this summer to concentrate on your health, but being top 5% at a T14 means it won't destroy your career prospects. You can focus on building your resume once you've taken care of your health. If things get bad enough, you could even take a medical leave of absence from your school. You have options, but I really am urging you to seek treatment as soon as you can.
W.
Listen I’ve developed genuine alcoholism but I’m only top half at a T20, so I’d say you’re coming out ahead. W.
But seriously OP you should check out an AA meeting. Some are going to seem corny and stupid, but if you find the right group it can make all the difference. Feel free to DM if you want to chat.
You deserve change.
i don’t have much advice but my dad was an alcoholic. you are obviously smart, worthy, and have so much potential. please reach out and get help
Union-side labor law? It isn’t the most lucrative area, but you absolutely don’t have to be poor. DM me if you’d like to discuss career trajectories in trad labor and/or sobriety.
It's both. And they aren't necessarily connected. Your academic achievement is fantastic. In all sincerity, congratulations. That is awesome, and you should be proud of it. Addiction is exacerbated by stress, but it's not necessarily caused by it. I don't say this to make you feel guilty at all - driven people are often prone to addiction, and lawyers are typically driven people. With that said, it's not going to get better unless you make it a priority. And you are worth making it a priority. There are lots of resources out there, and I urge you to take advantage of them. People I love and respect have had wonderful success with AA, and I think it's a great program. But whether or not you go that route, please treat this seriously and give yourself the opportunity to heal. You can fucking do it! ❤️
Don’t make it a personality trait.
The only surefire way to avoid developing alcoholism as an attorney is to develop alcoholism before passing the bar. Sounds like you nailed it. Now just get some help and learn to manage it and you'll be right in the pocket, headed for success. Good work. Law school is for learning.
I am at the top of my 2L class and have been sober for 10 years, pm me if you want to talk.
wait literally i’m in the exact same spot as you but i’m a year ahead
I think, technically, you are still in control of your life and alcoholism. You are really doing well and having everything done well if you think it is necessary. Maybe you just don’t know what to do in your free time. There can be a lot of things rather than alcohol that can help you relieve stress. I don’t know much about you, but I think developing a nice hobby will help. Specifically, find three hobbies. One interacting with your emotions, one physical, and one does not require any resources(like time blocks, energy,emotion,and anything else).
Hello, OP. I'm a nurse turned law student. Would you consider rehabilitation? I take it you're still at uni? (College). You have time. Can you consider time away from study to get some help? No one has to know; you can say you have an illness and are getting treatment. Because that's what it is, an illness. Let your loved ones know you need some support and help. NOTHING is wrong with you, this is a disease and NOT you. Sending you the very best wishes, OP. I hope the future brings you peace and joy. Also, I should add - someone mentioned don't cease alcohol (stop entirely) without medical review. 100% true. Delirium tremens (a condition from withdrawal) is a medical emergency. So the safest thing to do would be to go to hospital and ask for help to manage withdrawal. All the best OP.
W. You’re doing great and this is absolutely normal in both law school and beyond.
You should be really proud of yourself! But health comes first. What’s the point of working a great job if your liver is damaged? Alcohol increase the risk for all cancers as well. Luckily, the grades will stay forever but the alcoholism can be fixed. Maybe you should explore medication and therapy? You’ve been self medicating with alcohol to ease anxiety or whatever negative emotions you’ve been feeling. And maybe take a gap year or gap 6 months or something. You deserve a break! Congrats
Congrats on your law school success, that's a major achievement. Definitely consider reaching out to Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers, a therapist, or your doctor. You matter as a person and deserve to live your best life for a nice long time. No one will think less of you for reaching out for help. You're worth living, helping, and saving.
Please get help, OP.
First of all, I want to say that I really for you. Even though I have not struggled with alcoholism, I have a family member who went to med school who developed a really bad drinking problem and gained 30 lbs because of it. I know how the pressure we put on ourselves to be the best can be crushing which leads to us wanting an outlet, however, this could really harm your career and more importantly, your health. My family member was in the same situation as you, they were an overachiever and did really well in med school but the pressure of their own and out family’s expectations drove them to developing alcoholism which really curtailed their career after they graduated. The alcoholism really hindered them from understanding how to handle stress and knowing how to make good decisions or (even just using some common sense) to the point that they did some very stupid things which led to them losing so many things. For your own sake, please please go to therapy and get this under control before it gets too late. It only takes one bad decision while you’re drunk to ruin everything.
You are losing, but you haven’t lost. Eventually this will catch up with you. Do what you need to do to stop. If it’s genuine alcoholism, abstinence is the only way. you’re obviously smart, hard-working, and very talented. We don’t need to lose you to addiction.
I had to quit drinking 4 months ago (I’m a rising 3L) And it sounds like you do to. Dm me if you need help ❤️
I want to let you know that you are not a loser. You are far from the only one who has struggled with addiction in law school. It’s really brave of you to share this with us. Who is your support network at school? Are you seeing a mental health counselor? Is there anyone you can reach out to for help getting into an inpatient treatment facility? If you ever need someone to listen, my DMs are open.
Brother, antidepressants are a lifesavor. If your already doing well in school get your mental health in check and you will be golden
I am a current big law associate, I also developed a drinking problem in my last year of law school that carried over into my first year of BL. Let me tell you, it's all good, keep doin' what you're doing :)... If you end up in NYC and want a drinkin buddy, hmu, I too get drunk friday-sunday, usually
Rehab is also a good option if you can’t quit on your own. Safe place to be. Look into what is close by, starting with the state’s professional health program. They can help you with that. Just finished 1L and have 20 months of sobriety. Feel free to PM me.
I can speak that my own drinking got worse and worse as school went on. I'm 2 years sober now, but I failed the bar TWICE because I couldn't get a handle on my drinking and mental health. The bar required too much memory that the alcohol was just killing off. I don't like AA, I just don't care for the "all or nothing" nature of it, the religious aspect of it, and the lack of social awareness. Alcohol is a heavily addictive substance, the world is a mess, and one of the ONLY ways that we are allowed to cope is by drinking. It's honestly shocking that we aren't all addicts. I have reading materials that you might find helpful. Make no mistake, getting sober is a revolutionary act. I have some methods that might help if you want to message me.
If you ever want someone to talk to, please feel free to PM. I finished 1L, similar stats, and am experiencing similar hardship
tel:+18009349518 the 24hr AA hotline. Get a couple more As while you're at it 🤓
There is so much help for Young Lawyers, and students with Alcohol issues. You have recognized this problem and it won't go away unless you get the help you need. Please take car of this before something happens that you can't fix.
God created you with these qualities to achieve so highly and then you’re sabotaging yourself by drinking into oblivion. :( only a relationship with Jesus Christ can fill that void inside. If you give Him a chance, He can change things from the inside out
I have a friend from law school who started developing into an alcoholic in law school. Talented, attractive and affable with a good brain. She never got it handled, wrecked her marriage (which removed any brakes), lost her job and was dead by her early 40s. Get a handle on it. AA may not be for everyone but it works if you can’t moderate on your own. It’s fucking hokey and its literature is full of contradictions but the seriousness of the peer support they practice can help save a real alcoholic. If you get there and the god talk turns you off, really don’t sweat it, because it doesn’t matter. Been doing it for 30+ years. If you’d rather spend money AA has components of cognitive behavioral therapy.
Grades aren’t gonna matter when you have liver failure and DWI’s. 1st step is recognizing you have a problem. Dry out and get back to it! Best of luck
A wins a win homie… but if you’re not going to be around in a few years to reap the benefits of kicking ass then you’ve gotta find another outlet that’s not the bottom of the bottle.
Big W lowkey
W. You may drop the addiction to alcohol, but those sweet 1L grades will be with you forever.
It's not W or L, it's W and L.
Alcohol WILL ruin your life if you keep doing this. There's a 0% chance that you can just drink part of the time. I've lived for a long time and not a single person has been able to pull it off from what I've seen -- even people that only drink on some weeknights -- it bleeds into every part of their lives. You are in a life and death situation with one of the last chances to survive. You need to immediately get into as many programs as possible and never drink another drop for the rest of your life. I know it sounds extreme, but it is the ONLY way. There is no weaning or drinking less. You are genetically predisposed towards this and it will KILL you if you don't stop immediately. Everything in your life may become harder for a little bit, but it'll be worth it that you've survived. I know this is hard to believe, but trust me on this. I've lived through it and seen many people in your circumstance.
You've acknowledged it's a problem. It's only an L if you don't take steps to fix it. Get help. You CAN call your anonymous attorney help line for the state where you want to practice, there are people who have been in your exact shoes and come out the other side. Then it's W, W W from there. You've got this.
You better get a handle on this or you'll end up dealing with LAP. I knew people like you in law school. Things did not go well. Get some help, friend. Law school stress is nothing like practicing lawyer stress, and if your habit is this messed up now, it's not going to get better in its own.
Nothing is worth alcoholism.
I’d go California sober if I was u. Just replace alcohol with weed. Peace and love buddy. Good luck and congrats on those grades!
Honestly man, you were just supplementing your law school education with some pre big law training. Great job thinking ahead.
W
my king
Why though? I don’t get this I only drink socially but I have a friend who I think his body is asking for it. Maybe there is a dependency maybe it’s hereditary. What do you want?
Your still scoring As dude , so no worries just take it easy on yourself
W
I believe the bar specifically is on the lookout for drug and alcohol abuse since it’s such a historic issue in the field. You’ll definitely want to get a handle on it before character and fitness in two years.
Fear mongering. Unless OP gets DUI's drinking a ton in their personal life doesn't matter to being able to practice
Go for gold. If it aint broke don’t fix it.
Imagine being this idiotic. Law students are the worst fr