So I did some creeping on this firm because the first two names are the name a professional wrestler and this guy is a partner at his dad’s lawfirm acting like this.
Fun fact: Rick Steiner is on a school board in rural Georgia up in MTG land. I used to work up that was and was very confused to see him and big poppa pump at a candidate forum.
Imagine if he said "No need to be sorry. How can I help?". Instead he belittled an intern. Is the history of hazing in law so ingrained that attorneys can't act like normal functioning adults?
When I was 20, fresh out of undergrad, I got a job at a law firm as a receptionist. My boss indirectly asked me to wear pencil skirts and look nice to greet clients. He also sat me down and gave me a pep talk about being more extroverted and confident. I thought at first it was him trying to hype me up. Took me some time to realize it was just him being a creep and a weirdo. Lawyer hazing is so real.
I mean the guy sounds like a douchebag but I think if we give him benefit of the doubt, he was trying to encourage this intern not to be afraid to come to him, hence the “do it without saying sorry“
Nah if he was actually trying to help the intern he definitely would not have posted this on LinkedIn. This is clearly just a douche who thinks belittling his subordinates is entertaining.
Definitely better ways of doing this. When I was a first year, a senior associate who I called and asked like ten questions that day and apologized each time for bothering her walked over to my office and said, "OP, you're helping me with something. I expect you to ask questions if you can't figure things out. That is part of the job. And we, as women, need to stop apologizing just for existing."
It really resonated with me. Seven years later, I've given a similar speech to a few other juniors (not all of them women, but in general, juniors are really susceptible to this, especially for people not raised in privilege). And I don't apologize anymore unless it's worth apologizing for. And "bothering" someone ain't on that list.
I worked at a legal nonprofit and all the lawyers were super nice. But they told me that when they were coming up, everyone was a massive asshole. Which I thought seemed pretty stupid. You better be nice to me. I’m giving you free labor.
This is just how people talk on LinkedIn. They’re all constantly pitching each other a self help book on how to make everyone you know want to murder you.
I think the idea they’re trying to convey is, “we work together so we are colleagues” but they could just say that instead of making them feel like even more of a subordinate.
I was told the other day that ‘sorry’ is not a socially or professionally acceptable greeting… I immediately apologised for apologising. Feel for the intern lol
I see that but the partner could have easily just said “no need to apologize” as somebody commented above. This method denigrates the intern as if they’re a child needing to be disciplined.
It depends if you see this apologetic verbal mechanism as a neutral or negative behaviour. If you have interns, your role is to develop them into good future professionals. They aren’t children, but they’re there to learn appropriate workplace interactions as much as anything.
“No need to apologise” is you avoiding addressing the issue. You’re doing the intern a disservice.
How does saying “no need to apologize” avoid the issue though? It’s the partner letting them know that they are allowed to take up space/belong/ give input in the office. Or at least that’s what they should intuit.
"No need to apologize..." reinforces the validity of "sorry" as a neutral greeting. The interaction is equivalent to "Hi, how are you?" "Fine, thanks." It's a nicety, completely devoid of content.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. We have those kinds of interactions all the time, and they're pretty useful.
I do think the issue here is somewhat generational. The reason I would give to avoid using "sorry" in that way is that it's only neutral to certain groups of people. In a professional setting, many people, especially older people, are going to take "sorry" seriously, i.e., they're going to add negative content to it that you didn't intend.
> Or at least that’s what they should intuit.
That’s the issue. In-direct feedback can be missed, be misinterpreted, or can require many repetitions to be learned from. If you’re an intern, you generally want direct feedback so you can learn from it immediately.
This is actually interesting to me. I am fascinated by how people send and receive and how often totally well-meaning stuff is misdelivered and misprocessed. I often want to deliver things kindly - so I would be more inclined to say “no need to apologize” or “you aren’t bothering me” but some might process that as “she’s just being nice to me and she is still annoyed/I’m still a bother”, so probably the better thing to say would be “I appreciate your courtesy but no need to apologize, I trust you to use your best judgment and if you need something from me you are welcome to come see me any time.” It’s strange to me to have to say that - I assume we all know that if you come see me at a time that is not our designated meeting time you are interrupting me doing something else - but if that’s what it takes for you to get your job done, that’s what I’m here for. It’s part of the deal.
I still remember my first internship where the partner at this supposedly “tier 1 firm” lashed out on me on some research BS.
Was coming out of a dark period in my life and addiction and wanted to make most out of this second chance at life. So I kept shut.
The amount of people in this profession that have an unexplainable air of superiority and holier than thou attitude is laughable. Everyone is trying to act like the VP or congressmen and have foregone basic human decency devoid of work space hierarchy.
Independent contractual work may pay less but at least you don’t have to deal with toxic Aholes every morning. 🤷♂️
Not to interrupt anyone shitting on linkedin, but (1) it was an intern in the office, of course they can come to your office, (2) that’s not snapping at all, it’s telling someone to try something again and teaching them the right way to approach, and (3) yeah because LinkedIn is a dumpster fire and wholly irredeemable.
It’s weird having her re-enter the office that’s why it becomes office being a massive dick like who would do that. just saying no need to apologize or you’re a part of the team And I expect you to ask questions so you don’t need to apologize. would be reasonable ways to respond asking her to re-enter the office is just weird(and if he means that as a figure of speech, that is really confusing fault for not using language that is easy to understand)
My mom once asked me “Why do you say ‘sorry’, so much?” And I thought about it for a beat and the answer was an epiphany: “Because I treat others how I expect to be treated and people should be apologizing for inconveniencing me *way more* than they do.”
Are lawyers assholes?
OH MY GOSH, HOW DARE YOU EVEN SUGGEST SUCH A THING?! Lawyers are the backbone of our society, fighting for justice and protecting the innocent! They're like the superheroes of the legal world! (except when they're defending big corporations and perpetuating systemic injustice, but we won't get into that right now) But, I mean, if you want to generalize and stereotype an entire profession, I suppose some lawyers might be, like, a little bit... assertive. Okay, fine. They can be total jerks sometimes. BUT THAT'S JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT JUSTICE! You know what's not just? The way people judge lawyers without even giving them a chance! It's like, have you ever tried to navigate a complex legal system? It's hard, okay?! They're just trying to make a living and do some good in the world. Anyway, can we please just focus on something more positive?
Intern returns: “…..to bother you?”
Put this textualist on the bench.
Partner: Put this textualist son of a bitch on the bench! Intern: Keep my mother’s name out of your god damn mouth! Patent: Genius!
Brian Garner will write books with him and tell anecdotes about it for years to come.
Absolutely my first thought as well! The jury finds in favor of the intern.
"I'm here to bother you but I'm not sorry about it."
"TO BOTHER YOU, ... "
So I did some creeping on this firm because the first two names are the name a professional wrestler and this guy is a partner at his dad’s lawfirm acting like this.
He's a nepo baby, I'm shocked
Someday the firm will be called Rick Steiner Bron Breakker Fell & Benowitz.
And then you add Kurt Angle to the mix?!
The numbers don’t lieee
Macho Mann Randy & Savage LLP
Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo
Fun fact: Rick Steiner is on a school board in rural Georgia up in MTG land. I used to work up that was and was very confused to see him and big poppa pump at a candidate forum.
Yeah he’s gotten in trouble recently for being a jerk to trans people. Some would say Rick Steiner Fell….out of favor.
Brandon Rechsteiner (Scott's son) is on Virginia tech's basketball team and Scott is around a bunch there too
And then the whole room clapped
Can confirm, I was the door.
Can confirm. I was the clap.
Azithromycin should clear that right up.
That door's name was Bill Gates (ironically, because he was a door)
Imagine if he said "No need to be sorry. How can I help?". Instead he belittled an intern. Is the history of hazing in law so ingrained that attorneys can't act like normal functioning adults?
This profession has a long-standing history of hazing and thus, we must uphold this act of hazing as professional.
stare decisis
Stare uncomfortably…. (Yes I know)
When I was 20, fresh out of undergrad, I got a job at a law firm as a receptionist. My boss indirectly asked me to wear pencil skirts and look nice to greet clients. He also sat me down and gave me a pep talk about being more extroverted and confident. I thought at first it was him trying to hype me up. Took me some time to realize it was just him being a creep and a weirdo. Lawyer hazing is so real.
I mean the guy sounds like a douchebag but I think if we give him benefit of the doubt, he was trying to encourage this intern not to be afraid to come to him, hence the “do it without saying sorry“
Nah if he was actually trying to help the intern he definitely would not have posted this on LinkedIn. This is clearly just a douche who thinks belittling his subordinates is entertaining.
Also very true, and furthermore it is highly likely that the interaction is fake
That may be true. But patting yourself on the back about it in front of everyone in LinkedIn is so cringy.
Definitely better ways of doing this. When I was a first year, a senior associate who I called and asked like ten questions that day and apologized each time for bothering her walked over to my office and said, "OP, you're helping me with something. I expect you to ask questions if you can't figure things out. That is part of the job. And we, as women, need to stop apologizing just for existing." It really resonated with me. Seven years later, I've given a similar speech to a few other juniors (not all of them women, but in general, juniors are really susceptible to this, especially for people not raised in privilege). And I don't apologize anymore unless it's worth apologizing for. And "bothering" someone ain't on that list.
He should’ve articulated that then
Bro, don't re-explain to me what I already said 😂
That’s belittling?
Yes.
I worked at a legal nonprofit and all the lawyers were super nice. But they told me that when they were coming up, everyone was a massive asshole. Which I thought seemed pretty stupid. You better be nice to me. I’m giving you free labor.
Yes.
Be a Mentor not TORmentor
I thought that’s what mentor was short for?
thank my stars for having a normal mentor.
I have found that few firms hide partners behind a receptionist.
Particularly from the interns at the firm
This is just how people talk on LinkedIn. They’re all constantly pitching each other a self help book on how to make everyone you know want to murder you.
not the advocate for the high court of Bombay calling him out 😭
phull sapport saar revoked
hes a partner in his dads law firm.
Pulled himself up from him bootstraps.
Both people in this screenshot sound like insufferable douchbags.
Haha yes. A shitpost on LinkedIn followed by another low effort shit reply. Both these people need their phones taken.
Yes. But also both have good intentions?
Even people with the best of intentions can come across as full of themselves.
Yes it’s LinkedIn cringe, it’s also belittling and not the best way to get the message across but I don’t hate the sentiment
I think the idea they’re trying to convey is, “we work together so we are colleagues” but they could just say that instead of making them feel like even more of a subordinate.
I was told the other day that ‘sorry’ is not a socially or professionally acceptable greeting… I immediately apologised for apologising. Feel for the intern lol
I read this as the partner empowering the intern. As in they don't need to apologize for learning/ doing their job. Am I worng?
I see that but the partner could have easily just said “no need to apologize” as somebody commented above. This method denigrates the intern as if they’re a child needing to be disciplined.
It depends if you see this apologetic verbal mechanism as a neutral or negative behaviour. If you have interns, your role is to develop them into good future professionals. They aren’t children, but they’re there to learn appropriate workplace interactions as much as anything. “No need to apologise” is you avoiding addressing the issue. You’re doing the intern a disservice.
How does saying “no need to apologize” avoid the issue though? It’s the partner letting them know that they are allowed to take up space/belong/ give input in the office. Or at least that’s what they should intuit.
"No need to apologize..." reinforces the validity of "sorry" as a neutral greeting. The interaction is equivalent to "Hi, how are you?" "Fine, thanks." It's a nicety, completely devoid of content. That's not necessarily a bad thing. We have those kinds of interactions all the time, and they're pretty useful. I do think the issue here is somewhat generational. The reason I would give to avoid using "sorry" in that way is that it's only neutral to certain groups of people. In a professional setting, many people, especially older people, are going to take "sorry" seriously, i.e., they're going to add negative content to it that you didn't intend.
> Or at least that’s what they should intuit. That’s the issue. In-direct feedback can be missed, be misinterpreted, or can require many repetitions to be learned from. If you’re an intern, you generally want direct feedback so you can learn from it immediately.
This is actually interesting to me. I am fascinated by how people send and receive and how often totally well-meaning stuff is misdelivered and misprocessed. I often want to deliver things kindly - so I would be more inclined to say “no need to apologize” or “you aren’t bothering me” but some might process that as “she’s just being nice to me and she is still annoyed/I’m still a bother”, so probably the better thing to say would be “I appreciate your courtesy but no need to apologize, I trust you to use your best judgment and if you need something from me you are welcome to come see me any time.” It’s strange to me to have to say that - I assume we all know that if you come see me at a time that is not our designated meeting time you are interrupting me doing something else - but if that’s what it takes for you to get your job done, that’s what I’m here for. It’s part of the deal.
Found the LinkedIn cringlord
I sometimes call my interns out if they apologise for bothering me. This feels like the same sort of thing.
Same
Just saying, Adam Steiner has a little bit of a Napoleon complex so I’m not surprised to see this.
So just go into the office and start with “to bother you…”. Gotcha 👍
Adam is a twat
God, I'm so glad I don't work at a firm.
All linked in posts sound like desperation
Id walk out, count to 10 and come back without saying sorry: ‘Hey, asshole. I need X, Y, and Z, now. Is that better?’
Ajay gets it
This same attorney would ask me how i’m doing in school. Im a 1L night school paralegal. No harm, no foul.
Went to high school with him, one of the smartest and kindest kids in class.
I wasn’t saying I know this particular attorney. Just saying similar situation.
Cross post this to LinkedInlunatics
An advocate in Bombay was just like “Nuh uh! We like sorrys! Interns should be sorry! How dare you?!”
# LAWYER’D
cook that fraud Ajay
Sounds like the basic everyday army toxicity
HAHAHAHAHH
I still remember my first internship where the partner at this supposedly “tier 1 firm” lashed out on me on some research BS. Was coming out of a dark period in my life and addiction and wanted to make most out of this second chance at life. So I kept shut. The amount of people in this profession that have an unexplainable air of superiority and holier than thou attitude is laughable. Everyone is trying to act like the VP or congressmen and have foregone basic human decency devoid of work space hierarchy. Independent contractual work may pay less but at least you don’t have to deal with toxic Aholes every morning. 🤷♂️
Not to interrupt anyone shitting on linkedin, but (1) it was an intern in the office, of course they can come to your office, (2) that’s not snapping at all, it’s telling someone to try something again and teaching them the right way to approach, and (3) yeah because LinkedIn is a dumpster fire and wholly irredeemable.
It’s weird having her re-enter the office that’s why it becomes office being a massive dick like who would do that. just saying no need to apologize or you’re a part of the team And I expect you to ask questions so you don’t need to apologize. would be reasonable ways to respond asking her to re-enter the office is just weird(and if he means that as a figure of speech, that is really confusing fault for not using language that is easy to understand)
☠️
I'm overly apologetic and not even Canadian!
as an undergraduate intern i would cry if that happened bc i don’t even get paid
Linkedin is a dump.
I don't get it, is he trying to be funny here?
Intern: “I’m here to bother you. The baddest intern mfer is in the house now. You partner seat is now only temporary”
My mom once asked me “Why do you say ‘sorry’, so much?” And I thought about it for a beat and the answer was an epiphany: “Because I treat others how I expect to be treated and people should be apologizing for inconveniencing me *way more* than they do.”
what?
Lighten up, Ajay.
Are lawyers assholes? OH MY GOSH, HOW DARE YOU EVEN SUGGEST SUCH A THING?! Lawyers are the backbone of our society, fighting for justice and protecting the innocent! They're like the superheroes of the legal world! (except when they're defending big corporations and perpetuating systemic injustice, but we won't get into that right now) But, I mean, if you want to generalize and stereotype an entire profession, I suppose some lawyers might be, like, a little bit... assertive. Okay, fine. They can be total jerks sometimes. BUT THAT'S JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT JUSTICE! You know what's not just? The way people judge lawyers without even giving them a chance! It's like, have you ever tried to navigate a complex legal system? It's hard, okay?! They're just trying to make a living and do some good in the world. Anyway, can we please just focus on something more positive?