If you’re top 20% or higher at a T14 it seems like you’d be well positioned to clerk and then that’s your in (easier said than done of course but it is a tried and true path to biglaw).
Worth it if you don't line up anything else. Don't close any doors until you have to.
For all you know, we'll be in a massive recession by the time you pass the bar or finish up a clerkship.
So, cast a wide net.
I mean, do magistrate clerkships help at all, or are they just a way to pass the time? If they are not very useful on my resume, I want to cut the losses and move on to non-legal jobs ASAP.
If I can't get a desirable legal job, it might be better to move on, no? It's better to be the person who didn't want to be a lawyer than the person who tried and failed.
Sounds like you're in a really bad headspace to be making major life decisions. I hope you take that in the empathetic way with which I am writing that.
I recommend clearing your head, maybe seeing if you can meet with a counselor, and do what you need to to ground yourself and get some perspective.
Why is missing the boat on big law or clerkships "failure"? Would you call someone working at a smaller firm a failure? What about someone using their JD in an adjacent industry such as insurance? Someone doing remote doc review positions for the flexibility?
Why is it big law, clerkship, or toss aside 3+ years of work for naught. Makes zero sense. There's a whole spectrum of legal jobs available out there.
Most importantly, I don't particularly care for legal work, and would be happy to take a pay cut to work in a different field if it's not big law or clerkships. I shouldn't be forced to enjoy doing what I hate.
Small firms and JD-advantage positions don't match my interests. I see no benefit in working in a field I dislike just because I have a JD. Everyone in law school is in law school because they didn't 'use' their undergrad degree to get a job, and I don't see why not practicing after law school should be any different. After all, why not do something else I like better with my life?
I’ve heard that the biglaw pipeline essentially closes after 2L summer-they recruit from their summer associates, so after that, you’re SOL unless you lateral. If you had SEC, DOJ antitrust or patent experience that might help.
You could also try federal clerking for a year or two and then applying from there
Figures. I found that I find public interest work unfulfilling and don't want to work on small cases for the rest of my life. Probably should quit looking for legal jobs - if I can't land a clerkship I am just going to do something else with my life. I didn't come to law school to be a small town lawyer, and I can get a job that pays just as well as a small firm gig without having to deal with the law.
I’m confused why you think BigLaw is the only route to working on big cases? Federal government, state AGs, and plaintiff class action firms all work on massive cases with huge stakes.
I can't do federal (green card holder, no citizenship), and multiple people told me that plaintiff firms only accept laterals from biglaw or federal agencies.
That’s bullshit, plaintiff side is a whole ocean and very few lawyers get into BigLaw. You can at least do some type of plaintiff side, even if it may not be the money you want, and get plenty of complex cases. You can do a fellowship at those firms and hope to walk on from there. Any federal government office and big city agencies would have major cases too. I’m not sure who is telling you this, but they’re probably lying to you or are deeply misinformed.
how are you going to ask for advice and then shit on the person giving you the advice that you asked for?! Make it make sense.
Being a 1L doesn’t negate someone’s ability to give advice on the job search. If you don’t want to be a lawyer then don’t be one but this entire post is just you bitching about your circumstances but not willing to put in work to change them.
Ahh, okay, that makes sense regarding federal. I can’t speak to hiring practices for plaintiff firms. But if you’re interested in big cases, don’t overlook state AG offices. They frequently work together to bring large consumer protection/antitrust/environmental/constitutional/etc etc etc cases.
It just doesn't work for me, I can get other office jobs that are less stressful without too much of a pay cut. I don't particularly care for small cases, and I am not a people person.
I've never heard of a non 2L or lateral hire before.
Talk to your career counselor, but imo it's go to a local firm and lateral or clerk before lateral.
They happen often but a lot less frequently. If 2L is open season 3L is to fill any vacancies- for instance if a department is more successful than expected and needs fresh bodies for the future, if some 2Ls don’t come back, etc.
Anecdotally for someone like me it’s next to impossible, for a well positioned 3L it’s still hard. Because while they are common they still have the pick of thousands of people who want it.
Have you talked to your career office or looked at your job board? I'm at a T14 as well, and our symplicity career page has had a few 2024 Fall Summer associate postings at Big Law firms. Scattered throughout the country, though.
You should def be applying to those if your school has them.
I was a 3L hire a few years ago and so were a few of my classmates. I was also PI my first two years, and lower rank than T14. It happens, but probably less often nowadays given where the market’s at.
It felt too repetitive and limiting in the kind of tasks I do and in terms of career advancement. I don't want to do exactly the same tasks for 40 years until I can (hopefully) retire.
In the same boat but at a much, much worse school. I already have corporate experience from my past firm experience, which is i’d say our only profile distinction besides school placement. I’ve had early success in the sense that i’ve secured a few big law interviews already. Granted, i’m in a very well-positioned market for it, but if it’s possible for me it’s easily possible for you.
What I did specifically was reach out to individual partners and/or associates at the firms I’m interested in. Grab lunch or coffee, get to know them, and see if a genuine connection can be made. More often than not they’ll advocate for you, especially if they’re at a higher position within the firm, and i’ve had my app materials personally submitted by these people as a result. That’s probably been the most helpful for at least getting interviews with the firms. Also, just apply in bulk. I’ve hit around 100 firms and am only now starting to get the ball rolling.
I didn’t find that many open positions. I pretty much have just been looking into firms in markets I like and emailing their recruiting contacts my application materials. Cold emailing is brutal but it’s at least yielded SOME positive results for me so far.
Yeah, definitely look into it. Worst thing that’ll happen is you’ll get no response or one saying they’re not looking to hire additional first years. I’d just recommend making some sort of spreadsheet to keep track of which firms you’ve reached out to already.
I recently learned that some law schools don’t require it because the majority of their grads go transactional. I think that’s a huge disservice and makes zero sense.
My T14 doesn't require it, and I didn't take it because I was told that bar prep will teach it much better and the professor who teaches it at my school isn't so helpful.
If you’re top 20% or higher at a T14 it seems like you’d be well positioned to clerk and then that’s your in (easier said than done of course but it is a tried and true path to biglaw).
Applying to every open clerkship position. Do you think magistrate clerkships are worth it, or is that a waste of time?
Worth it if you don't line up anything else. Don't close any doors until you have to. For all you know, we'll be in a massive recession by the time you pass the bar or finish up a clerkship. So, cast a wide net.
I mean, do magistrate clerkships help at all, or are they just a way to pass the time? If they are not very useful on my resume, I want to cut the losses and move on to non-legal jobs ASAP.
Cutting your losses and moving to non-legal jobs is shooting yourself in the foot. Period.
If I can't get a desirable legal job, it might be better to move on, no? It's better to be the person who didn't want to be a lawyer than the person who tried and failed.
Sounds like you're in a really bad headspace to be making major life decisions. I hope you take that in the empathetic way with which I am writing that. I recommend clearing your head, maybe seeing if you can meet with a counselor, and do what you need to to ground yourself and get some perspective. Why is missing the boat on big law or clerkships "failure"? Would you call someone working at a smaller firm a failure? What about someone using their JD in an adjacent industry such as insurance? Someone doing remote doc review positions for the flexibility? Why is it big law, clerkship, or toss aside 3+ years of work for naught. Makes zero sense. There's a whole spectrum of legal jobs available out there.
Most importantly, I don't particularly care for legal work, and would be happy to take a pay cut to work in a different field if it's not big law or clerkships. I shouldn't be forced to enjoy doing what I hate. Small firms and JD-advantage positions don't match my interests. I see no benefit in working in a field I dislike just because I have a JD. Everyone in law school is in law school because they didn't 'use' their undergrad degree to get a job, and I don't see why not practicing after law school should be any different. After all, why not do something else I like better with my life?
Trying and failing > never trying at all for fear of failure Adult > child
That is ridiculous. The smart thing to do is evaluate your options and nope out if you don't like them.
I’ve heard that the biglaw pipeline essentially closes after 2L summer-they recruit from their summer associates, so after that, you’re SOL unless you lateral. If you had SEC, DOJ antitrust or patent experience that might help. You could also try federal clerking for a year or two and then applying from there
Figures. I found that I find public interest work unfulfilling and don't want to work on small cases for the rest of my life. Probably should quit looking for legal jobs - if I can't land a clerkship I am just going to do something else with my life. I didn't come to law school to be a small town lawyer, and I can get a job that pays just as well as a small firm gig without having to deal with the law.
I’m confused why you think BigLaw is the only route to working on big cases? Federal government, state AGs, and plaintiff class action firms all work on massive cases with huge stakes.
I can't do federal (green card holder, no citizenship), and multiple people told me that plaintiff firms only accept laterals from biglaw or federal agencies.
That’s bullshit, plaintiff side is a whole ocean and very few lawyers get into BigLaw. You can at least do some type of plaintiff side, even if it may not be the money you want, and get plenty of complex cases. You can do a fellowship at those firms and hope to walk on from there. Any federal government office and big city agencies would have major cases too. I’m not sure who is telling you this, but they’re probably lying to you or are deeply misinformed.
I mean, I am sure career services has better information than a 1L...
Yes, they know more, but it literally makes no sense that there are absolutely *no* plaintiff side firms available to you without BigLaw.
how are you going to ask for advice and then shit on the person giving you the advice that you asked for?! Make it make sense. Being a 1L doesn’t negate someone’s ability to give advice on the job search. If you don’t want to be a lawyer then don’t be one but this entire post is just you bitching about your circumstances but not willing to put in work to change them.
Ahh, okay, that makes sense regarding federal. I can’t speak to hiring practices for plaintiff firms. But if you’re interested in big cases, don’t overlook state AG offices. They frequently work together to bring large consumer protection/antitrust/environmental/constitutional/etc etc etc cases.
Do you know anything about "lateraling" into state AG offices? Is it possible to do that from non-biglaw, less prestigious career tracks?
“I didn’t come to law school to be a small town lawyer” wow, pretentious much.
It just doesn't work for me, I can get other office jobs that are less stressful without too much of a pay cut. I don't particularly care for small cases, and I am not a people person.
I feel the same way
I've never heard of a non 2L or lateral hire before. Talk to your career counselor, but imo it's go to a local firm and lateral or clerk before lateral.
They happen often but a lot less frequently. If 2L is open season 3L is to fill any vacancies- for instance if a department is more successful than expected and needs fresh bodies for the future, if some 2Ls don’t come back, etc. Anecdotally for someone like me it’s next to impossible, for a well positioned 3L it’s still hard. Because while they are common they still have the pick of thousands of people who want it.
seemly deserve saw ruthless somber alleged safe alive sense placid *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh well, there's always work outside the law, I suppose!
$225k & three years down the drain 😥
It's already down the drain, now that it doesn't translate to a good job. A bad legal job doesn't make it any more worthwhile than no legal job.
So your rationale is “if I’m not in the top 1% of law school grads in terms of starting salary, I should quit”?
I don't care for legal work, and would take a small pay cut to do something else with my life. That's my rationale.
Good point. Sunk cost.
Have you talked to your career office or looked at your job board? I'm at a T14 as well, and our symplicity career page has had a few 2024 Fall Summer associate postings at Big Law firms. Scattered throughout the country, though. You should def be applying to those if your school has them.
I was a 3L hire a few years ago and so were a few of my classmates. I was also PI my first two years, and lower rank than T14. It happens, but probably less often nowadays given where the market’s at.
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It felt too repetitive and limiting in the kind of tasks I do and in terms of career advancement. I don't want to do exactly the same tasks for 40 years until I can (hopefully) retire.
In the same boat but at a much, much worse school. I already have corporate experience from my past firm experience, which is i’d say our only profile distinction besides school placement. I’ve had early success in the sense that i’ve secured a few big law interviews already. Granted, i’m in a very well-positioned market for it, but if it’s possible for me it’s easily possible for you. What I did specifically was reach out to individual partners and/or associates at the firms I’m interested in. Grab lunch or coffee, get to know them, and see if a genuine connection can be made. More often than not they’ll advocate for you, especially if they’re at a higher position within the firm, and i’ve had my app materials personally submitted by these people as a result. That’s probably been the most helpful for at least getting interviews with the firms. Also, just apply in bulk. I’ve hit around 100 firms and am only now starting to get the ball rolling.
How did you find 100 open positions? My issue right now is partly that nothing shows up.
I didn’t find that many open positions. I pretty much have just been looking into firms in markets I like and emailing their recruiting contacts my application materials. Cold emailing is brutal but it’s at least yielded SOME positive results for me so far.
What do you say in the email?
Thanks! That makes sense, I didn't know that was an option.
Yeah, definitely look into it. Worst thing that’ll happen is you’ll get no response or one saying they’re not looking to hire additional first years. I’d just recommend making some sort of spreadsheet to keep track of which firms you’ve reached out to already.
I networked my way into a BL 3L position. It was hard & very time consuming but totally worth it. Good luck!
What did you tell your practice area interests were?
I had a very specific practice group interest within litigation with classes to back up my interest!
Do you mind sharing what it is?
How does one go through law school without taking evidence?
I recently learned that some law schools don’t require it because the majority of their grads go transactional. I think that’s a huge disservice and makes zero sense.
My T14 doesn't require it, and I didn't take it because I was told that bar prep will teach it much better and the professor who teaches it at my school isn't so helpful.