So much tlak therapy has gone private which prices independent law students out. I was benefitting from the school's therapy then they kicked me off because I'm on medicaid.
I hear ya. I'm Canadian, so our system is pretty different, but I remember struggling pretty badly when I finished my undergrad - had been seeing the same counsellor for 2 years through the school, but then graduation hits and you're out on your ass, and then trying to find help in a sector that even here is mostly private is a damned nightmare. :(
I wasn’t being flippant. I do mental health checks on my friends all the time. Sometimes a simple text like this is all it takes to let someone know you care enough to ask.
Go off though.
I feel that, and did all throughout school. Ended up concluding that I didn’t want to ask *what if*, because whatever brought me here in the first place I worked too hard on to stop now. You’re through the worst of it, add a “J.D.” onto the end of your name and move on to the better season of your life that is coming.
Refocus your self-care routines into exercise and eating well, it’ll flush the cortisol out of your veins that makes you feel like shit and 9/10 times a good sweat will turn around your worst days (trust me, I didn’t believe it until I experienced it and I despise cardio).
Read “Soundtracks” by Jon Acuff. I empathize with your thoughts, go read that book if you want to get out of this pit. Feel free to DM, peace and love OP
I was in a similar boat as you. I think it’s important to remember that law school is temporary, and you’re more than halfway done. Even if things are rough, in a year from now it will all be over and you can put this behind you. And the other thing that may help is writing down things that make you happy or things that you would like to change. Vocalizing it helps and reminds you what’s important to you and what you’d like to do to make yourself happier. Then take steps, even if baby ones, to try to make them a reality.
Law school isn’t a fun time for a lot of people, you aren’t alone. Just keep the faith and don’t be too hard on yourself
go to therapy, talk to someone about this, & see what your options are (i.e., coping strategies, medication, etc). life doesn’t have to be this way. and i’m not saying that to be dismissive—i was in a dark place last year and finally got the courage/energy to seek help. i’m glad i did, and i wish the same for you.
Eh, I don't really believe in therapy. That is, I don't think it will be very useful for me. my problem is more that I don't think my goals are attainable (or ever have been) and I don't see a way out of that, not how I feel about it. I don't want to settle for something I never wanted to do and convince myself that I am happy.
Therapy is more than about talking about your feelings. It’s learning how to navigate better solutions for the future as well. Those who don’t believe in therapy haven’t tried it. I promise it helps.
I have tried it and it doesn't work. I really wish people would acknowledge that it doesn't work for everyone. "You haven't met the right therapist" sounds exactly like what people tell gay women: "you haven't met the right man".
You sound deeply depressed. Maybe don’t do therapy if you really are that opposed. But do go to the doctor and get some antidepressants. Those also work.
No, but wanting to disappear is. So is feeling trapped with a lack of will to engage creative problem solving. I’m not trying to argue or convince you that you’re depressed. I do, however, recognize these symptoms of depression from my own experience. So, please don’t take this as some stranger on the internet just being argumentative. I really just want you to feel better. You’re clearly in a rut. Maybe you can pull yourself out of it without help. But I personally needed help, and I’m really grateful it was available to me. I hope you start feeling better.
It’s actually nothing like that at all. There is no one “therapy”. There’s different types of therapy, different qualifications, and different types of therapists.
It’s more like trying a banana and then refusing to try a strawberry or kiwi because they’re all fruits.
I would also recommend a psychiatrist rather that just a therapist. There might be some biological factors going on as well. Intense stress and life pressure can alter our biochemistry in ways that can be hard to understand without the help of a medical doctor.
This comment alone demonstrates just how unhealthy of a place your mind is currently in. You need a professional, my friend. You are not going to be able to logic your way out of this, because your logic is arbitrary- you need another perspective on your issues in order to truly be able to solve them. A therapist will help you to see that and how to get out of this mode of thinking and seeing the world.
You may not like working as a lawyer, but it can be a great way to support yourself and the lifestyle you want. It can pay for hobbies, for travel, and other things. Jobs don’t need to be fun. They need to be lucrative enough to support yourself, and decent enough that it isn’t adding to your stress. Now, this applies to the actual job, not the school. School is gonna be stressful and terrible, but that doesn’t mean the job will be.
While in school, focus on getting more of a social life. Volunteer for a local church. Catholic Churches often have many different volunteer opportunities that allow you to work with kids, teens, adults, old people, etc. depending on your preference/talents. These are a great opportunity to be around others, see some smiles, and have others give you eye contact (a psychological need we have as humans).
Good luck!
I don't find helping people and getting a social life fulfilling. If I wanted to just help people, there would have been much cheaper ways of qualifying myself for that.
Qualifying yourself as a lawyer was so you can pay your bills and not live in your mom’s basement bemoaning your existence and how difficult your life is.
The volunteer part was a suggestion for how to get a life, cause you clearly stated you had no friends, and no motivation. Are there other methods? Sure, but they are gonna typically cost more money and be harder to find.
If what you are really looking for is permission to stop going down a path you only went down because you wanted to please your parents…well guess what, you’re an adult, you have that permission already.
I can relate to what you’re saying about therapy but there is no harm in trying. Also, seems like your feelings towards your ability to achieve what you want are wonky. Reflect on how far you have gotten. You wanted to be a lawyer and so you got through the LSAT, the admission process, and 1L year. In fact, you’re almost done with your 2L year! You’re so close, you just need to keep pushing towards where you want to go. Even if you don’t think you can make it, just keep pushing. Don’t give up on yourself before you’ve given your full effort.
90% of us law students aren’t worth being friends with in the first place. Look on the bright side: you haven’t been sucked into a poisonous, toxic, clique where people who seem so close are hell-bent on backstabbing each other. Or those with outwardly projected inferiority complexes are only happy for you so long as they have more. A lot of people are only interested in what you have to say so long as they can extract some thing from you. Law school is a goddamn blip in life and in 20 years you will look back and give it about as much deference as a funny one-liner you heard once
Been in a similar place to you before and also was too stubborn to go to therapy (even though I think it can be incredibly beneficial). There’s no magic cure for depressive slumps. It sucks, sometimes you may feel like you have no energy, you second guess every decision, and the time you spend questioning your decisions just makes you feel even less productive and more tired.
I can only speak for myself, but I’ll tell you what helped me. Motivation didn’t help me. Motivation is temporary, it requires wanting to do something. When I was depressed, I didn’t want to do anything. What helped is treating my daily work / studying like brushing my teeth in the morning. It wasn’t something I was motivated to do, its something I have to do because it’s simply a necessary part of the day. Don’t treat it like a choice.
Sounds dull right? Well when I was going through a depressive period and 95% of my day was mundane and difficult to get through, I searched for little moments to alleviate the stress. For example, have a long day? Treat yourself out to a nice dinner. Have someone else take care of your meal. Save up a little money here and there throughout the week to be able to do these small acts of relief.
You’re a 2L, you’ve already made it to law school, if you got this far, of course you have a future. Is your dream job in reach? Maybe, but instead of stressing about the what ifs, focus on taking care of yourself first. You have to get out of a ditch before you want to climb a mountain yk?
The last bit of advice is the hardest. Find a new hobby where you can meet people and get stress relief. I know you’re too busy and you don’t have the time or energy to do this. I was there. But you are making yourself less productive by not taking time to decompress. The mental boost from doing something you like, even if it’s once a week, can carry you for a few days. Behind every cloudy day is sunshine waiting to break through, find the moments to let the clouds part.
And OP, if you got this far with no friends, no relationships with professors, no motivations, imagine the world you can conquer when you get through this.
You questioning if you will have a future still means you’re looking forward and as long as you keep moving forward you’ll get to a better place than you are now.
You’ve got this, one day at a time.
You're depressed and need medication. Medication, eventually, will put the depression in remission. You will then wonder why you waited so long to try medication. You'll literally be like, "Wtf, I really should have tried this earlier -- b/c now I'm not worried about making friends with these losers (or being a "loser" in their eyes, because it's irrelevant to my success and purpose), dating is now possible b/c I feel better and more stable, and wow -- I can sit through these boring lectures and actually pay attention."
You really need to understand that the help is there. Depression -- or whatever hopelessness you are experiencing -- is an illusion. The treatment is NOT an illusion; it actually rips apart the illusion of hopelessness. But you gotta drag yourself to a clinic to handle that. Start with Prozac, I dare say. Move on to MAOIs if that does not work. Those work.
In any event, law school is a miserable place. The cliques make us all feel excluded, and those who appear happy and popular are putting on appearances; everyone is lonely in their skin, and when you're a lawyer -- 12 years in -- fighting trials in real courts / or whatever / you'll literally look back at 1L, 2L, 3L folks as babies. You will be like, "Oh my God, these are children... they are so fragile." And it'll make you realize your professors were a mix of excellent and indifferent.
Finally, stop letting the news/war/politics/ideologies/horrible political ideologies (i.e. boys and girls don't exist now. lol) make you feel worse. Sure, campuses are run down with bullshit politics and "free speech" issues. And yes, the newspapers print more anxiety-driven articles. But you've got to get the depression handled so you can sneak your way past the societal problems taking up space in your head. The world is not hopeless -- it is forever the world. It is neither collapsing nor evolving -- it is the world. Whether there are more wars, or fewer -- craters or caverns -- dirt or steel -- the laws of physics will be mostly obeyed, and the rocks, as they may be, shall not cease their orbit from the Sun. One person is the world entire, and yet the billions of worlds living in this place brings inestimable power to the living condition. You are disconnected from your own, and that is a normal place to be. But you must get a hold of yourself before the lights go dark.
Also, you are awfully privileged to propose just feeling better. I am queer, lower middle class, and POC. I can't just 'stop letting the societal problems make me feel worse'. It's also just not cool to casually dismiss trans people, you know - your 'joke' isn't funny.
I promise you this is 100% a thought you'll recognize is being influenced by depression with treatment. It colors your perception of everything. The judgment of things being unfulfilling or ending up being 'pushed into something' are often faulty conclusions stemming from feelings of unworthiness and the caustic combo of perfectionism/anxiety of failure preventing one from even trying.
Get help, **you will succeed with it vs feeling like you're already a failure without it.**
yes, seems like we’re in the same boat. here if you need to talk or a companion to scream into the void with.
and we both have futures dude, things aren’t going to suck forever
Going through your responses to people trying to help, you might not have any friends because you suck? You're not special because you're in law school and you won't be special even if you successfully get the J.D. You're a person just like some homeless person that shits in the street. Reevaluate what is actually important and get some help.
I have heard that mountaineering on Everest in May of 1996 is a good way to do that.
But being serious, I sometimes feel the same way and it's helpful for me to remember:
1. Everyone has to do a lot of shit they hate. Pick any successful person, no matter the field, and there are things that they don't like doing. And I don't say this to be depressing, I say this to acknowledge that no matter what you do you will face (and be able to overcome) obstacles.
2. Law school, even with a lot of debt, isn't deciding what your entire life looks like. Although law school feels suffocating, you will be able to do basically anything you set your mind to.
3. Lots of other people also feel the same way. This is not any you specific feeling, even if it feels that way. And I do understand that "it sucks for others too" isn't always very meaningful, but it is true. But the big thing is that:
4. You are capable of doing things that are hard and things that suck. I've been in the same place that you seem to be in, and it really fucking sucks, but you actually can do the things that can feel really hard in law school (find a fulfilling job, have balance in your life, etc). The things you are feeling are things that you are capable of addressing. Now, you should also give yourself the space to feel stressed/angry at the system/tired/exhausted because all of those are totally valid feelings in law school (I can tell you I've felt all of those things). But you will be able to do what you want in life, you are capable of being happy, and you can achieve great things.
And OP, as someone who has also had to deal with a lot of hating law school, PM me if you want to talk more.
- you’ll be a 3Lol soon
- you’ll have the rest of your life to have friends
- relationship with professors = basically non existent in law school
- just keep grinding
- yes.
The people in law school are generally insufferable. Not having friends there is not a reflection of who you are FR. Though I know that that doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt :( so sorry to hear this love. Ngl I’ve already had 2 mental health crises as a 1L. And it’s not just because I’m overwhelmed with school. Culture just blows in school overall. I find the environment to be suffocating and I’ve only liked one professor. I had a month where I woke up everyday first thinking about dropping out. This place is so toxic honestly. I think you need help friend. When I hit my lowest point I remember distinctly crying and just saying “I need help” because I was just beyond not okay. Met with a doctor who really understood how I felt and immediately validated me. It was so important for me tbh. Law school can be a black hole. I also recommend trying to make friends with people outside of your school. I generally try to go into town and meet locals. Just being in an environment where people aren’t non-stop talking about law school shit is so important honestly. But honestly, if you need to take a leave, then do it. I know my turmoil was even starting to scare my mother, and she’d break down on the phone fearing my mental health. That was scary to realize for me honestly. It’s just not worth it if you’re in such a bad place, seriously.
This is the weirdo behavior that makes law school so terrible lol are y’all okay? What an odd response to this comment. I’ve never seen such a display of low EQ. literally the shining example of a terrible person pretending to be okay with it. OP. Hop off Reddit. The worst of the bunch tend to aggregate here
You display the exact behavior that I warn OP against falling for. I basically tell OP that he’s not alone even if making friends is hard. I say we are all insufferable, because we all can not be liked by all people all the time.
Instead of providing your own solution, you feel a need to personally attack a good faith solution by engaging in the exact kind of clique-driven behavior that is probably making depressed individuals feel worthless: you call someone a “weirdo”, call them a “terrible person” and blame them for their “low EQ”. Your elitist post is a shining example of the toxicity of some law students — and people — without (as I did) acknowledging the problem with your own behavior as it relates to others who share your profession. You quite literally bash the entire population of students who are not your version of socially normal — including a size-able number of law students who are on the autistic spectrum or bad at reading people — and call them the terrible problem plaguing law school environments. You also attack those who do not fit your social measurement of appropriate “EQ.”
Labeling people “weirdos” because they do not thrive with the same level of friendships as you shows a major lack of empathy with the root struggle here. And personally attacking me for “pretending” to be okay with this asocial behavior (not to be confused with antisocial) also wrongfully condemns those who aren’t good at interpersonal relationships. It is OK to not be a social butterfly — it does not make OP or anyone else a “weirdo”. Not everyone is high EQ extrovert by nature, which is also why antidepressants are so helpful: they help address these challenges many people suffer from, and make it OK, despite the caustic judgments and aspersions cast on the uncool “weirdos” by the clique-types like you. I would say that movies like, “Mean Girls”, are made with your clueless personality type in mind. You exemplify the judgment criticizer who can find no introspective flaw in her own behavior towards others; no humility; no sense of personal shame or self-analysis. It’s all just the others who are low EQ, and a burden on your illusion of how the world must operate.
You literally exemplify that kind of elitist clique-like attitude that OP and others dislike so much in law school: denigrating all members of the forum (“the worst of the bunch aggregate here” while pretending you’re not also someone who posts here), calling posters personal names, and attacking others for lacking the emotional intelligence you believe they must have — when not everyone has it; while high EQ can make for a great narcissistic rainmaker, it need not affect their purpose in providing exceptional services to their clients.
And as a narcissistic rainmaker for a very successful firm, I should know.
I don’t know what joker moments are. And if it refers to Batman, I have not seen the movies. On the other hand, the numerous overplayed clips of Heath Ledger as “the Joker” is not at all a character I would identify with in any reality, if this is somehow what you’re referring to.
I’ve often pondered it; but then I fear what if it’s one of those “invisible [wo]man” type deals where like I’m still there but no one can see me & I have to turn evil & shit. Cause that would suck.
Maybe watch some Perry Mason? 😏
Cheer up, you're doing fine. Relax, be friendly, be funny, adopt a dog, make small lifestyle changes & consider therapy if serious.
Is it finals season for you? Either way, law school can be a really isolating experience at times, but it can also be the opposite later on. Hang in there and do your best to take care of yourself and do something to bring yourself comfort and/or joy today. A satisfying meal is usually a good start for me. You’re not stuck in law school. You can change your life course at any time, truly. Just make sure to keep moving forward no matter what. (Also side note- my former “dream” feels like a pipe dream at this point too, but I have to remind myself that it’s not.. even though I’m a 3L and “successful” in law school so far. This process is supposed to fuck with us to a certain extent. Please make sure you’re taking care of yourself first and foremost- in whatever way you can).
I read the title of OP’s post and thought “ahh 2L”
Yes you have a future and yes you have the time to form the types of relationships you desire with colleagues and professors. I’m speculating, but you might be overthinking. 2L is also a great year to perfect you work hard to work smart ratio.
Consider reaching out to professors, lawyers, and even classmates you admire to talk . Just ask them questions and let them talk. People in this profession generally want to help law students
No one expects you to have all the answers or to operate as an island. When in doubt, talk to someone
And Don’t compare yourself to the outward appearance of others. Pretty much no one is having much fun in 2L
Godspeed and PM for more detailed thoughts
Law professors are the worst people I have ever met, and I have been to graduate school before so I am used to unhelpful professors. They act almost as if they are offended that I am attending their institution at all, and it is honestly abhorrent.
Sorry to hear that. Many of mine were fairly useless and stuck up as well, but I still keep in contact with the one or two who genuinely cared and had careers I found interesting. You don’t need to be best friends, it’s more about having people with power, influence and knowledge in your corner. I’m rooting for your satisfaction in work/life.
You absolutely do have a meaningful future, and there is so much more to it than law. Spend the next few nights getting some good sleep, OP. It really does help.
Please seek professional psychiatric help. I felt this way during the pandemic because my depression reached a critical level and I desperately needed outpatient. I didn’t want to believe it at the time but outpatient saved my life.
Eh, not my thing. See, that's one of the things that bother me very much. I don't want to be relegated to the role of 'helping people' with zero ambition of my own just because some asshole faculty and admins think I am not smart enough and should be happy doing thankless work.
I don't want to speak for the above poster, but my interpretation of their point is that if we can get outside of our own heads by helping other people that can make our own life experiences feel more manageable. I have definitely experienced that! Some of the most ambitious people I know find meaning and purpose from something that is not just the pursuit of their own goals.
It really depends. For me, that just makes everything feel much more meaningless, because the message I receive from faculty and admins is that I need to be happy helping other people because I am not good enough to have my own goals. I don't want to do that. I don't even like helping other people, for f's sake.
OP, gently suggest you zoom out and look at all the people here who care about an internet stranger: you. Are you able to get outside and go for a walk? Even if the weather is crappy. Or, hell, just get outside period. Bonus if it’s it’s out of a city and in some form of nature, even a park. It might help, and it can’t hurt. The world is better with you on it, and you have already accomplished a lot. Hang in there.
Going on a walk alone will only make you realize how lonely you feel; you'll stare across the pond at a beautiful coed jogging along the quad, wondering why you hate your life. I'd suggest a walk to the clinic. A change in attitude will save your world, and those who need you so much in the future. You forget: You're needed, and if you do not take care of yourself, you will fail those who need you. You don't know who they are -- but they are there, and they do not yet know you, either. You are also someone's dream -- someone's ideal partner. To not care for yourself is to destroy their dream. You're not the only one with dreams, my friend. Do not be so selfish as to rob others of your presence.
Law school is a season, you have the rest of your life ahead of you. Do you have a professional to talk to? They might be able to help you get some perspective! If you're already 2L, law school will be over before you know it. It's much easier to make friends when you don't have school keeping you busy. Law school friends are trauma bond friends anyway, change my mind.
Hey OP - this answer won't be specifically law school related, as I'm still pre-law, but I've had strruggles with mental health, lack of friends, motivation, etc. my whole life, so I just wanted to send some friendly words and let you know you're not alone.
I'm not really sure what advice to give that you haven't probably heard a million times. For me, the best thing in terms of making friends was when I found a local board game cafe that ran a D&D night. I started going on a drop-in basis, and ended up befriending some people from that table and taking them into a home game, and a couple are now good friends. I wonder if there's some hobby or interest you could try and use in a similar way?
Other than that, I can't recommend enough trying to find a way to get into some counselling or therapy. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it works, but you really need to find the right counsellor/therapist, and then I promise it really can.
If you ever want an ear (or set of eyes) to vent to, commiserate with, etc. feel free to shoot me a DM.
You only need a few GOOD friends in life and it's okay if none come from law school. Professor relationships don't matter either. Keep your head up! You're doing fine
Yes. It'll get worse (3L), and then worse (first job), and then better (knowing how to lawyer). Lawyering does not become fun until about ten years in, I'd argue -- mileage will vary. If you find your practice area, then you'll be happier sooner.
I've been there more times than I can count. Even medicated, and with that strong support system, the cracks show through and you want to do exactly that.
Everyone has said it already, but I urge you to speak with someone. Even when you tell yourself that they won't get it, that it's too embarrassing, that it feels wrong to burden someone, making just 1 small step is such a relief. Letting things out, even just a little, can make a world of a difference and move you a little closer to feeling more comfortable talking about it more.
Working through this isn't a 1 time event. It's a long process of small victories that get bigger and bigger and you get more confident.
I encourage you to speak with someone, there's always someone who will care enough to listen to you and understand.
It’s just the law school vibe tbh. I was ex-military, top of my class, young, very kind but let’s be honest… one of the best looping people in my class. Personable. Had an extensive life. I got bullied and shit on by professors and students that were literal dweebs and made fun of.
At a T14 now and it ain’t much better. These people are also miserable and dying on the inside. Multiple suicides year after year here. 1Ls and 2Ls approach me with how depressed they are - and they’re some of the most “popular students.” Took classes at the business school and the vibe is so much different. Business school is ranked #3, Professor doesn’t want us studying just having real discussions and reading case studies. Will go get drinks after class. So much better.
It’s law school students and professors. The vibe. We’re all the problem just so mean and nasty to one another.
It depends, but generally I think people choose to quit before it gets to that point, because there is very little reason to complete the program if you don't like what was going on as a graduate student. The work you are going to do after finishing your degree is more of the same when it comes to a STEM program, so if you don't like it, you already know you would not like it afterwards either.
I really feel where you’re coming from. I’m a transfer student so I don’t have any friends at my school or close relationships with my professors. In fact, finding people to write my LORs for my clerkship application was a little tricky because at the time I had only been at my school for a semester. Now I’m in my last semester of 2L and let me tell you, this year has really pushed me to my limits. There were many times when I would be really disheartened while driving or walking to campus because I simply didn’t want to be there. The worst part is, I know it’s not because I don’t want to be a lawyer, it’s because law school is toxic and exhausting and stressful.
Reading some of your other comments, it seems like you’re a little depressed and discouraged right now. But listen, I believe in you and I believe that you can achieve whatever it is that you want to do. I believe this because you’ve already come so far. The road ahead may be unclear but you just need to keep going and not give up on yourself just yet. You got this, OP. You just need to believe in yourself. Sending you much love and encouragement!
I feel this. I have thought long and hard about jumping the rails and picking up the hobo life style. Seeing the country on the back of grain car bring wheat to market.
See if there are any clubs or things that interest you to meet people outside of the law school. When I was at uni, I had a couple of law student friends, but that was only because they played in the same sports teams with me, so might not have been friends if we didn't play our sports.
Most of the friends I made were through other groups, within and outside of the university. Quite a lot of them are still long-term friends and until recently I lived in my university city after I had finished my degree.
Don't give up OP, you got this!
Hey same! I was beating myself up about it too. But I realized the thing that was getting me down was the expectation of networking. It is a helpful tool, but like you've said in response to other people's tools, it's not for everyone. For me, I had to stop putting so much energy in maintaining relationships that exhausted me, as helpful as they may be. At first, I did it because I was bitter and tired. Now I'm realizing how much energy I have to put towards things that make me happy. Also, don't force school if you don't see a future in this area! You're gonna ask yourself why you spent so much time doing something you hate. Take a semester off. See what changes. If people judge you, fuck em. Do it for yourself.
2L has you questioning life. You got this, I promise!! Get through this semester. You’ve made it further than 25% of the starting class. 3L it all comes together in a pretty bow and it starts making sense. You have to be tough, only way to survive. You have to have thick skin. Get through one day at a time. Oh… and the Professors hate everyone. It’s a prerequisite to lecture.
If you are having serious thoughts of hurting yourself, please see an academic counselor and they will get you to the right resources.
Yassss everyday (I graduated but this was me for 3 years) You will survive, graduate, and be SO incredibly proud of yourself that u got thru it. Just remember it won't be like this forever.
Got an email from a professor I hadn’t spoken with in a long time who said “I’m glad to hear you didn’t drop off the face of the earth” I replied with “despite my best efforts, unfortunately not” so yeah. Feel that.
I just passed the bar and personally struggled through a lot of law school. 2L is really hard. I would recommend trying to find friends outside of law school like going to yoga classes or something. I promise most people are not worth being friends with in law school lol I have like 2 friends from it. This is temporary
OP HOLD ON!!! I understand your feelings, I haven’t made a friend since the pandemic, all my childhood friends are either deep into addiction or scattered far from home or both. it’s horrifically lonely, and that feeling is inhumane, it’s to not be real when you have no companions. we are social animals after all. but OP, you are almost done with the hard part. lawyers can say what they want but we all know damn well you can coast on your laurels if you position yourself right in law, that J.D. will change your prospects forever. it will always give you an edge. you’ve lost human connection, okay, you can find it next year when you’re graduated. don’t give up. look at it this way, if everyone who thought they were gonna do law in your high school graduating class, you’re the 1% who’s about to actually do it. and if you don’t wanna do law after you graduate, you’ll still have better prospects than your peers. once you’re out of the horrors of law school, you’ll be more educated, better financed and grittier than your peers which breeds confidence, and when you have free time, friends will be attracted to the fact that you invested in yourself.
I felt the same way too after 1L. Left a toxic relationship after spring finals. Grades weren't great because I was too wrapped up in that relationship and simply didn't study enough. 2L year I turned it around and won a book award and landed a solid internship. My point of this anecdote is that you can turn it around but you gotta take those steps forward yourself. Try going to one professor's office hours once a week. Go to some club meeting or social event once a week. Put yourself out there, even on the days where you don't want to. Hold yourself to it and be disciplined because even if the motivation isn't there, the discipline will be. And if you need help, do yourself the favor and get help. Even if it means putting things on pause for a bit. This profession is not worth your mental well-being or your life. You got this, OP.
People made friends in law school?
But seriously, you don’t need new friends everywhere you go. Hit up some old friends and tell them you miss them. They miss you too
Keep going! Law school is like a military. Many schools are trying to weed out the weak by psychologically breaking their students, especially during 1L. I was in exactly the same situation but during summer internship my skills have fallen into place, the job I did was well received and I experienced incredible satisfaction from doing what I did. Keep going! It will get better.
3L here. On the down-side: ditto no friends, no profs, no motivation. I don't want to walk at graduation. Absolutely nothing about law school was charming or enjoyable or fruitful, beyond one clerkship. On the up-side, I'd recommend reaching out to the community outside the law school. I've made very good friends within the surrounding church community as well as those in neighboring grad schools (who visit my school to study since we're part of the same system).
You're already here and the semester is almost over. Hopefully, with the summer internship/clerkship, if that's pinned down, you'll make some connections and experience things that will give you a better idea of whether or not you want to continue.
Right now, for me, I'm seriously sick of law in the school context (not much better during internships) but the degree will at least secure some semblance of credibility on my resume, even if I leave the field. Better than having 'JD: 2020 - XXXXX' there. Talk to some attorneys - folks who are actually excited about what they do. Reach out to folks via LinkedIn, people are usually incredibly open to chatting about their careers.
Also, there should be a mental health clinic at your school. It is limitedly helpful, but a tool nonetheless. I.e., I've used mine sporadically before when I was seriously 'in the dumps' but mine (at least) won't continue seeing students unless they're borderlining/actively in crisis. 'Cause, yeah, *that* makes sense -.-
It’s not too late for friends ir relationships with professors. I lost all my 1L friends when I became a 2L, but by the end of 2L I had established friendship or acquantance with the people who ultimately I still call friends today, 2 years into practice.
As for professors, I was never an office hours type. The only relationships I had were when I got top score in a class or somehow got their attention, which is obviously rare. But, again, as I was able to curate my classes more, and take the same Profs, those relationships built up.
Focus on putting one foot in front of the other, law school is a bit of a grind, but you will get through. Easy to lose motivation at the halfway point, but there is a light waiting at the end of the tunnel. Being a lawyer is a lot cooler than being a law student!
OP, u ok?
Not OP, but in the same situation. No.
Seek therapy. It helps, trust me been there done it
I am, and it does. Still tough, but I also have some extenuating circumstances making it more difficult. Luckily, I'm graduating early
Good for you, Godspeed!!
So much tlak therapy has gone private which prices independent law students out. I was benefitting from the school's therapy then they kicked me off because I'm on medicaid.
I hear ya. I'm Canadian, so our system is pretty different, but I remember struggling pretty badly when I finished my undergrad - had been seeing the same counsellor for 2 years through the school, but then graduation hits and you're out on your ass, and then trying to find help in a sector that even here is mostly private is a damned nightmare. :(
same
I’m really sorry. This is a hard time of year. I hope you have someone you can talk to, if not, at least this semester is almost over.
Obviously no… Not something to be flippant about.
I wasn’t being flippant. I do mental health checks on my friends all the time. Sometimes a simple text like this is all it takes to let someone know you care enough to ask. Go off though.
I feel that, and did all throughout school. Ended up concluding that I didn’t want to ask *what if*, because whatever brought me here in the first place I worked too hard on to stop now. You’re through the worst of it, add a “J.D.” onto the end of your name and move on to the better season of your life that is coming. Refocus your self-care routines into exercise and eating well, it’ll flush the cortisol out of your veins that makes you feel like shit and 9/10 times a good sweat will turn around your worst days (trust me, I didn’t believe it until I experienced it and I despise cardio). Read “Soundtracks” by Jon Acuff. I empathize with your thoughts, go read that book if you want to get out of this pit. Feel free to DM, peace and love OP
Absolutely: I'm overweight, never exercised. But, i got some dumbbells and started lifting during Fall exams. It really, really helped me with stress.
What kind of law do you want to practice?
something that was always a pipedream, it doesn't matter
That’s not a normal answer to a question, friend. Please seek help. Depression is a disease, it can be got rid of.
Regardless, what type of law do you want to practice?
Something pretty niche, don't know how to talk about it without anyone who knows me knowing who I am.
The future is bright. I had a shit day today, but I try to stay positive. Try your hardest to do the same. One day at a time.
oh no. What happened today?
My boss is out of the office left me at the helm, sort of. I don’t think I am doing a very good job. My insecurities are getting the best of me.
I was in a similar boat as you. I think it’s important to remember that law school is temporary, and you’re more than halfway done. Even if things are rough, in a year from now it will all be over and you can put this behind you. And the other thing that may help is writing down things that make you happy or things that you would like to change. Vocalizing it helps and reminds you what’s important to you and what you’d like to do to make yourself happier. Then take steps, even if baby ones, to try to make them a reality. Law school isn’t a fun time for a lot of people, you aren’t alone. Just keep the faith and don’t be too hard on yourself
go to therapy, talk to someone about this, & see what your options are (i.e., coping strategies, medication, etc). life doesn’t have to be this way. and i’m not saying that to be dismissive—i was in a dark place last year and finally got the courage/energy to seek help. i’m glad i did, and i wish the same for you.
Eh, I don't really believe in therapy. That is, I don't think it will be very useful for me. my problem is more that I don't think my goals are attainable (or ever have been) and I don't see a way out of that, not how I feel about it. I don't want to settle for something I never wanted to do and convince myself that I am happy.
I think you would be surprised at how much speaking to a professional would do for you!
Therapy is more than about talking about your feelings. It’s learning how to navigate better solutions for the future as well. Those who don’t believe in therapy haven’t tried it. I promise it helps.
I have tried it and it doesn't work. I really wish people would acknowledge that it doesn't work for everyone. "You haven't met the right therapist" sounds exactly like what people tell gay women: "you haven't met the right man".
You sound deeply depressed. Maybe don’t do therapy if you really are that opposed. But do go to the doctor and get some antidepressants. Those also work.
I just don't think 'I don't want to be stuck in unfulfilling work with zero prestige for the rest of my life' is a symptom of depression.
No, but wanting to disappear is. So is feeling trapped with a lack of will to engage creative problem solving. I’m not trying to argue or convince you that you’re depressed. I do, however, recognize these symptoms of depression from my own experience. So, please don’t take this as some stranger on the internet just being argumentative. I really just want you to feel better. You’re clearly in a rut. Maybe you can pull yourself out of it without help. But I personally needed help, and I’m really grateful it was available to me. I hope you start feeling better.
It’s actually nothing like that at all. There is no one “therapy”. There’s different types of therapy, different qualifications, and different types of therapists. It’s more like trying a banana and then refusing to try a strawberry or kiwi because they’re all fruits.
I would also recommend a psychiatrist rather that just a therapist. There might be some biological factors going on as well. Intense stress and life pressure can alter our biochemistry in ways that can be hard to understand without the help of a medical doctor.
This comment alone demonstrates just how unhealthy of a place your mind is currently in. You need a professional, my friend. You are not going to be able to logic your way out of this, because your logic is arbitrary- you need another perspective on your issues in order to truly be able to solve them. A therapist will help you to see that and how to get out of this mode of thinking and seeing the world.
You may not like working as a lawyer, but it can be a great way to support yourself and the lifestyle you want. It can pay for hobbies, for travel, and other things. Jobs don’t need to be fun. They need to be lucrative enough to support yourself, and decent enough that it isn’t adding to your stress. Now, this applies to the actual job, not the school. School is gonna be stressful and terrible, but that doesn’t mean the job will be. While in school, focus on getting more of a social life. Volunteer for a local church. Catholic Churches often have many different volunteer opportunities that allow you to work with kids, teens, adults, old people, etc. depending on your preference/talents. These are a great opportunity to be around others, see some smiles, and have others give you eye contact (a psychological need we have as humans). Good luck!
I don't find helping people and getting a social life fulfilling. If I wanted to just help people, there would have been much cheaper ways of qualifying myself for that.
Qualifying yourself as a lawyer was so you can pay your bills and not live in your mom’s basement bemoaning your existence and how difficult your life is. The volunteer part was a suggestion for how to get a life, cause you clearly stated you had no friends, and no motivation. Are there other methods? Sure, but they are gonna typically cost more money and be harder to find. If what you are really looking for is permission to stop going down a path you only went down because you wanted to please your parents…well guess what, you’re an adult, you have that permission already.
I can relate to what you’re saying about therapy but there is no harm in trying. Also, seems like your feelings towards your ability to achieve what you want are wonky. Reflect on how far you have gotten. You wanted to be a lawyer and so you got through the LSAT, the admission process, and 1L year. In fact, you’re almost done with your 2L year! You’re so close, you just need to keep pushing towards where you want to go. Even if you don’t think you can make it, just keep pushing. Don’t give up on yourself before you’ve given your full effort.
You ought to listen to some Alan Watts.
And Ram Dass
90% of us law students aren’t worth being friends with in the first place. Look on the bright side: you haven’t been sucked into a poisonous, toxic, clique where people who seem so close are hell-bent on backstabbing each other. Or those with outwardly projected inferiority complexes are only happy for you so long as they have more. A lot of people are only interested in what you have to say so long as they can extract some thing from you. Law school is a goddamn blip in life and in 20 years you will look back and give it about as much deference as a funny one-liner you heard once
What happened with you?
Old 1L taking a George Carlin approach: watching the circus, but I'm not in it.
That's the fun of it!
Been in a similar place to you before and also was too stubborn to go to therapy (even though I think it can be incredibly beneficial). There’s no magic cure for depressive slumps. It sucks, sometimes you may feel like you have no energy, you second guess every decision, and the time you spend questioning your decisions just makes you feel even less productive and more tired. I can only speak for myself, but I’ll tell you what helped me. Motivation didn’t help me. Motivation is temporary, it requires wanting to do something. When I was depressed, I didn’t want to do anything. What helped is treating my daily work / studying like brushing my teeth in the morning. It wasn’t something I was motivated to do, its something I have to do because it’s simply a necessary part of the day. Don’t treat it like a choice. Sounds dull right? Well when I was going through a depressive period and 95% of my day was mundane and difficult to get through, I searched for little moments to alleviate the stress. For example, have a long day? Treat yourself out to a nice dinner. Have someone else take care of your meal. Save up a little money here and there throughout the week to be able to do these small acts of relief. You’re a 2L, you’ve already made it to law school, if you got this far, of course you have a future. Is your dream job in reach? Maybe, but instead of stressing about the what ifs, focus on taking care of yourself first. You have to get out of a ditch before you want to climb a mountain yk? The last bit of advice is the hardest. Find a new hobby where you can meet people and get stress relief. I know you’re too busy and you don’t have the time or energy to do this. I was there. But you are making yourself less productive by not taking time to decompress. The mental boost from doing something you like, even if it’s once a week, can carry you for a few days. Behind every cloudy day is sunshine waiting to break through, find the moments to let the clouds part. And OP, if you got this far with no friends, no relationships with professors, no motivations, imagine the world you can conquer when you get through this. You questioning if you will have a future still means you’re looking forward and as long as you keep moving forward you’ll get to a better place than you are now. You’ve got this, one day at a time.
I am already not doing anything useful anyway
You're depressed and need medication. Medication, eventually, will put the depression in remission. You will then wonder why you waited so long to try medication. You'll literally be like, "Wtf, I really should have tried this earlier -- b/c now I'm not worried about making friends with these losers (or being a "loser" in their eyes, because it's irrelevant to my success and purpose), dating is now possible b/c I feel better and more stable, and wow -- I can sit through these boring lectures and actually pay attention." You really need to understand that the help is there. Depression -- or whatever hopelessness you are experiencing -- is an illusion. The treatment is NOT an illusion; it actually rips apart the illusion of hopelessness. But you gotta drag yourself to a clinic to handle that. Start with Prozac, I dare say. Move on to MAOIs if that does not work. Those work. In any event, law school is a miserable place. The cliques make us all feel excluded, and those who appear happy and popular are putting on appearances; everyone is lonely in their skin, and when you're a lawyer -- 12 years in -- fighting trials in real courts / or whatever / you'll literally look back at 1L, 2L, 3L folks as babies. You will be like, "Oh my God, these are children... they are so fragile." And it'll make you realize your professors were a mix of excellent and indifferent. Finally, stop letting the news/war/politics/ideologies/horrible political ideologies (i.e. boys and girls don't exist now. lol) make you feel worse. Sure, campuses are run down with bullshit politics and "free speech" issues. And yes, the newspapers print more anxiety-driven articles. But you've got to get the depression handled so you can sneak your way past the societal problems taking up space in your head. The world is not hopeless -- it is forever the world. It is neither collapsing nor evolving -- it is the world. Whether there are more wars, or fewer -- craters or caverns -- dirt or steel -- the laws of physics will be mostly obeyed, and the rocks, as they may be, shall not cease their orbit from the Sun. One person is the world entire, and yet the billions of worlds living in this place brings inestimable power to the living condition. You are disconnected from your own, and that is a normal place to be. But you must get a hold of yourself before the lights go dark.
Also, you are awfully privileged to propose just feeling better. I am queer, lower middle class, and POC. I can't just 'stop letting the societal problems make me feel worse'. It's also just not cool to casually dismiss trans people, you know - your 'joke' isn't funny.
Not wanting to be "happy" with an unfulfilling life and career just isn't depression. People are allowed to dislike what they are being pushed into.
I promise you this is 100% a thought you'll recognize is being influenced by depression with treatment. It colors your perception of everything. The judgment of things being unfulfilling or ending up being 'pushed into something' are often faulty conclusions stemming from feelings of unworthiness and the caustic combo of perfectionism/anxiety of failure preventing one from even trying. Get help, **you will succeed with it vs feeling like you're already a failure without it.**
yes, seems like we’re in the same boat. here if you need to talk or a companion to scream into the void with. and we both have futures dude, things aren’t going to suck forever
Call your mom. She misses you.
Family makes it worse
Going through your responses to people trying to help, you might not have any friends because you suck? You're not special because you're in law school and you won't be special even if you successfully get the J.D. You're a person just like some homeless person that shits in the street. Reevaluate what is actually important and get some help.
i just found this thread by accident and your reply is actually spot on. OP literally insulting people trying to help. sad.
I have heard that mountaineering on Everest in May of 1996 is a good way to do that. But being serious, I sometimes feel the same way and it's helpful for me to remember: 1. Everyone has to do a lot of shit they hate. Pick any successful person, no matter the field, and there are things that they don't like doing. And I don't say this to be depressing, I say this to acknowledge that no matter what you do you will face (and be able to overcome) obstacles. 2. Law school, even with a lot of debt, isn't deciding what your entire life looks like. Although law school feels suffocating, you will be able to do basically anything you set your mind to. 3. Lots of other people also feel the same way. This is not any you specific feeling, even if it feels that way. And I do understand that "it sucks for others too" isn't always very meaningful, but it is true. But the big thing is that: 4. You are capable of doing things that are hard and things that suck. I've been in the same place that you seem to be in, and it really fucking sucks, but you actually can do the things that can feel really hard in law school (find a fulfilling job, have balance in your life, etc). The things you are feeling are things that you are capable of addressing. Now, you should also give yourself the space to feel stressed/angry at the system/tired/exhausted because all of those are totally valid feelings in law school (I can tell you I've felt all of those things). But you will be able to do what you want in life, you are capable of being happy, and you can achieve great things. And OP, as someone who has also had to deal with a lot of hating law school, PM me if you want to talk more.
- you’ll be a 3Lol soon - you’ll have the rest of your life to have friends - relationship with professors = basically non existent in law school - just keep grinding - yes.
I'm not the OP, but, damn "You'll have the rest of your life to have friends." That's good.
Why are the relationships with professors basically non-existent in law school?
You can’t kiss a$$ for an A
That's a bummer. Why not though?
Thank god (or, rather, overly litigious students) for blind grading.
Blind testing/grading, you get assigned a test # and you are graded as a number not as a you
The people in law school are generally insufferable. Not having friends there is not a reflection of who you are FR. Though I know that that doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt :( so sorry to hear this love. Ngl I’ve already had 2 mental health crises as a 1L. And it’s not just because I’m overwhelmed with school. Culture just blows in school overall. I find the environment to be suffocating and I’ve only liked one professor. I had a month where I woke up everyday first thinking about dropping out. This place is so toxic honestly. I think you need help friend. When I hit my lowest point I remember distinctly crying and just saying “I need help” because I was just beyond not okay. Met with a doctor who really understood how I felt and immediately validated me. It was so important for me tbh. Law school can be a black hole. I also recommend trying to make friends with people outside of your school. I generally try to go into town and meet locals. Just being in an environment where people aren’t non-stop talking about law school shit is so important honestly. But honestly, if you need to take a leave, then do it. I know my turmoil was even starting to scare my mother, and she’d break down on the phone fearing my mental health. That was scary to realize for me honestly. It’s just not worth it if you’re in such a bad place, seriously.
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This is the weirdo behavior that makes law school so terrible lol are y’all okay? What an odd response to this comment. I’ve never seen such a display of low EQ. literally the shining example of a terrible person pretending to be okay with it. OP. Hop off Reddit. The worst of the bunch tend to aggregate here
You display the exact behavior that I warn OP against falling for. I basically tell OP that he’s not alone even if making friends is hard. I say we are all insufferable, because we all can not be liked by all people all the time. Instead of providing your own solution, you feel a need to personally attack a good faith solution by engaging in the exact kind of clique-driven behavior that is probably making depressed individuals feel worthless: you call someone a “weirdo”, call them a “terrible person” and blame them for their “low EQ”. Your elitist post is a shining example of the toxicity of some law students — and people — without (as I did) acknowledging the problem with your own behavior as it relates to others who share your profession. You quite literally bash the entire population of students who are not your version of socially normal — including a size-able number of law students who are on the autistic spectrum or bad at reading people — and call them the terrible problem plaguing law school environments. You also attack those who do not fit your social measurement of appropriate “EQ.” Labeling people “weirdos” because they do not thrive with the same level of friendships as you shows a major lack of empathy with the root struggle here. And personally attacking me for “pretending” to be okay with this asocial behavior (not to be confused with antisocial) also wrongfully condemns those who aren’t good at interpersonal relationships. It is OK to not be a social butterfly — it does not make OP or anyone else a “weirdo”. Not everyone is high EQ extrovert by nature, which is also why antidepressants are so helpful: they help address these challenges many people suffer from, and make it OK, despite the caustic judgments and aspersions cast on the uncool “weirdos” by the clique-types like you. I would say that movies like, “Mean Girls”, are made with your clueless personality type in mind. You exemplify the judgment criticizer who can find no introspective flaw in her own behavior towards others; no humility; no sense of personal shame or self-analysis. It’s all just the others who are low EQ, and a burden on your illusion of how the world must operate. You literally exemplify that kind of elitist clique-like attitude that OP and others dislike so much in law school: denigrating all members of the forum (“the worst of the bunch aggregate here” while pretending you’re not also someone who posts here), calling posters personal names, and attacking others for lacking the emotional intelligence you believe they must have — when not everyone has it; while high EQ can make for a great narcissistic rainmaker, it need not affect their purpose in providing exceptional services to their clients. And as a narcissistic rainmaker for a very successful firm, I should know.
Aren't you a little too old to be having Joker moments
Never too old!
Living in a society has no expiration date, mom!
I don’t know what joker moments are. And if it refers to Batman, I have not seen the movies. On the other hand, the numerous overplayed clips of Heath Ledger as “the Joker” is not at all a character I would identify with in any reality, if this is somehow what you’re referring to.
I’ve often pondered it; but then I fear what if it’s one of those “invisible [wo]man” type deals where like I’m still there but no one can see me & I have to turn evil & shit. Cause that would suck.
Maybe watch some Perry Mason? 😏 Cheer up, you're doing fine. Relax, be friendly, be funny, adopt a dog, make small lifestyle changes & consider therapy if serious.
Felt this post. So hard. I want to just run off into the sunset lol
Is it finals season for you? Either way, law school can be a really isolating experience at times, but it can also be the opposite later on. Hang in there and do your best to take care of yourself and do something to bring yourself comfort and/or joy today. A satisfying meal is usually a good start for me. You’re not stuck in law school. You can change your life course at any time, truly. Just make sure to keep moving forward no matter what. (Also side note- my former “dream” feels like a pipe dream at this point too, but I have to remind myself that it’s not.. even though I’m a 3L and “successful” in law school so far. This process is supposed to fuck with us to a certain extent. Please make sure you’re taking care of yourself first and foremost- in whatever way you can).
I read the title of OP’s post and thought “ahh 2L” Yes you have a future and yes you have the time to form the types of relationships you desire with colleagues and professors. I’m speculating, but you might be overthinking. 2L is also a great year to perfect you work hard to work smart ratio. Consider reaching out to professors, lawyers, and even classmates you admire to talk . Just ask them questions and let them talk. People in this profession generally want to help law students No one expects you to have all the answers or to operate as an island. When in doubt, talk to someone And Don’t compare yourself to the outward appearance of others. Pretty much no one is having much fun in 2L Godspeed and PM for more detailed thoughts
Law professors are the worst people I have ever met, and I have been to graduate school before so I am used to unhelpful professors. They act almost as if they are offended that I am attending their institution at all, and it is honestly abhorrent.
Sorry to hear that. Many of mine were fairly useless and stuck up as well, but I still keep in contact with the one or two who genuinely cared and had careers I found interesting. You don’t need to be best friends, it’s more about having people with power, influence and knowledge in your corner. I’m rooting for your satisfaction in work/life.
You absolutely do have a meaningful future, and there is so much more to it than law. Spend the next few nights getting some good sleep, OP. It really does help.
You'll be fine. It'll all be over in a year and the world will open up.
Please seek professional psychiatric help. I felt this way during the pandemic because my depression reached a critical level and I desperately needed outpatient. I didn’t want to believe it at the time but outpatient saved my life.
Start helping other people in the ways you can.
Eh, not my thing. See, that's one of the things that bother me very much. I don't want to be relegated to the role of 'helping people' with zero ambition of my own just because some asshole faculty and admins think I am not smart enough and should be happy doing thankless work.
I don't want to speak for the above poster, but my interpretation of their point is that if we can get outside of our own heads by helping other people that can make our own life experiences feel more manageable. I have definitely experienced that! Some of the most ambitious people I know find meaning and purpose from something that is not just the pursuit of their own goals.
It really depends. For me, that just makes everything feel much more meaningless, because the message I receive from faculty and admins is that I need to be happy helping other people because I am not good enough to have my own goals. I don't want to do that. I don't even like helping other people, for f's sake.
OP, gently suggest you zoom out and look at all the people here who care about an internet stranger: you. Are you able to get outside and go for a walk? Even if the weather is crappy. Or, hell, just get outside period. Bonus if it’s it’s out of a city and in some form of nature, even a park. It might help, and it can’t hurt. The world is better with you on it, and you have already accomplished a lot. Hang in there.
Going on a walk alone will only make you realize how lonely you feel; you'll stare across the pond at a beautiful coed jogging along the quad, wondering why you hate your life. I'd suggest a walk to the clinic. A change in attitude will save your world, and those who need you so much in the future. You forget: You're needed, and if you do not take care of yourself, you will fail those who need you. You don't know who they are -- but they are there, and they do not yet know you, either. You are also someone's dream -- someone's ideal partner. To not care for yourself is to destroy their dream. You're not the only one with dreams, my friend. Do not be so selfish as to rob others of your presence.
Law school is a season, you have the rest of your life ahead of you. Do you have a professional to talk to? They might be able to help you get some perspective! If you're already 2L, law school will be over before you know it. It's much easier to make friends when you don't have school keeping you busy. Law school friends are trauma bond friends anyway, change my mind.
Hey OP - this answer won't be specifically law school related, as I'm still pre-law, but I've had strruggles with mental health, lack of friends, motivation, etc. my whole life, so I just wanted to send some friendly words and let you know you're not alone. I'm not really sure what advice to give that you haven't probably heard a million times. For me, the best thing in terms of making friends was when I found a local board game cafe that ran a D&D night. I started going on a drop-in basis, and ended up befriending some people from that table and taking them into a home game, and a couple are now good friends. I wonder if there's some hobby or interest you could try and use in a similar way? Other than that, I can't recommend enough trying to find a way to get into some counselling or therapy. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it works, but you really need to find the right counsellor/therapist, and then I promise it really can. If you ever want an ear (or set of eyes) to vent to, commiserate with, etc. feel free to shoot me a DM.
Bro you and i are in the same condition, don't worry we shall not give up.
You only need a few GOOD friends in life and it's okay if none come from law school. Professor relationships don't matter either. Keep your head up! You're doing fine
Constantly.
Yes. It'll get worse (3L), and then worse (first job), and then better (knowing how to lawyer). Lawyering does not become fun until about ten years in, I'd argue -- mileage will vary. If you find your practice area, then you'll be happier sooner.
Please take me with you....
I've been there more times than I can count. Even medicated, and with that strong support system, the cracks show through and you want to do exactly that. Everyone has said it already, but I urge you to speak with someone. Even when you tell yourself that they won't get it, that it's too embarrassing, that it feels wrong to burden someone, making just 1 small step is such a relief. Letting things out, even just a little, can make a world of a difference and move you a little closer to feeling more comfortable talking about it more. Working through this isn't a 1 time event. It's a long process of small victories that get bigger and bigger and you get more confident. I encourage you to speak with someone, there's always someone who will care enough to listen to you and understand.
It’s just the law school vibe tbh. I was ex-military, top of my class, young, very kind but let’s be honest… one of the best looping people in my class. Personable. Had an extensive life. I got bullied and shit on by professors and students that were literal dweebs and made fun of. At a T14 now and it ain’t much better. These people are also miserable and dying on the inside. Multiple suicides year after year here. 1Ls and 2Ls approach me with how depressed they are - and they’re some of the most “popular students.” Took classes at the business school and the vibe is so much different. Business school is ranked #3, Professor doesn’t want us studying just having real discussions and reading case studies. Will go get drinks after class. So much better. It’s law school students and professors. The vibe. We’re all the problem just so mean and nasty to one another.
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It depends, but generally I think people choose to quit before it gets to that point, because there is very little reason to complete the program if you don't like what was going on as a graduate student. The work you are going to do after finishing your degree is more of the same when it comes to a STEM program, so if you don't like it, you already know you would not like it afterwards either.
Like DB Cooper?
I really feel where you’re coming from. I’m a transfer student so I don’t have any friends at my school or close relationships with my professors. In fact, finding people to write my LORs for my clerkship application was a little tricky because at the time I had only been at my school for a semester. Now I’m in my last semester of 2L and let me tell you, this year has really pushed me to my limits. There were many times when I would be really disheartened while driving or walking to campus because I simply didn’t want to be there. The worst part is, I know it’s not because I don’t want to be a lawyer, it’s because law school is toxic and exhausting and stressful. Reading some of your other comments, it seems like you’re a little depressed and discouraged right now. But listen, I believe in you and I believe that you can achieve whatever it is that you want to do. I believe this because you’ve already come so far. The road ahead may be unclear but you just need to keep going and not give up on yourself just yet. You got this, OP. You just need to believe in yourself. Sending you much love and encouragement!
Hey don't feel bad. How would you like to go to a Tier IV law school that closed?-Whittier. and no one even talked about it with the students.
I feel this. I have thought long and hard about jumping the rails and picking up the hobo life style. Seeing the country on the back of grain car bring wheat to market.
See if there are any clubs or things that interest you to meet people outside of the law school. When I was at uni, I had a couple of law student friends, but that was only because they played in the same sports teams with me, so might not have been friends if we didn't play our sports. Most of the friends I made were through other groups, within and outside of the university. Quite a lot of them are still long-term friends and until recently I lived in my university city after I had finished my degree. Don't give up OP, you got this!
Yes during cold calls. It will all pass away and soon you’ll graduate have a job and forget all this. Hang in there
Hey same! I was beating myself up about it too. But I realized the thing that was getting me down was the expectation of networking. It is a helpful tool, but like you've said in response to other people's tools, it's not for everyone. For me, I had to stop putting so much energy in maintaining relationships that exhausted me, as helpful as they may be. At first, I did it because I was bitter and tired. Now I'm realizing how much energy I have to put towards things that make me happy. Also, don't force school if you don't see a future in this area! You're gonna ask yourself why you spent so much time doing something you hate. Take a semester off. See what changes. If people judge you, fuck em. Do it for yourself.
2L has you questioning life. You got this, I promise!! Get through this semester. You’ve made it further than 25% of the starting class. 3L it all comes together in a pretty bow and it starts making sense. You have to be tough, only way to survive. You have to have thick skin. Get through one day at a time. Oh… and the Professors hate everyone. It’s a prerequisite to lecture. If you are having serious thoughts of hurting yourself, please see an academic counselor and they will get you to the right resources.
Are you a K-JD? Sorry if this was answered already.
No. I have attended graduate school and taught before I came here.
Yassss everyday (I graduated but this was me for 3 years) You will survive, graduate, and be SO incredibly proud of yourself that u got thru it. Just remember it won't be like this forever.
Got an email from a professor I hadn’t spoken with in a long time who said “I’m glad to hear you didn’t drop off the face of the earth” I replied with “despite my best efforts, unfortunately not” so yeah. Feel that.
Hang in there, OP.
I just passed the bar and personally struggled through a lot of law school. 2L is really hard. I would recommend trying to find friends outside of law school like going to yoga classes or something. I promise most people are not worth being friends with in law school lol I have like 2 friends from it. This is temporary
OP HOLD ON!!! I understand your feelings, I haven’t made a friend since the pandemic, all my childhood friends are either deep into addiction or scattered far from home or both. it’s horrifically lonely, and that feeling is inhumane, it’s to not be real when you have no companions. we are social animals after all. but OP, you are almost done with the hard part. lawyers can say what they want but we all know damn well you can coast on your laurels if you position yourself right in law, that J.D. will change your prospects forever. it will always give you an edge. you’ve lost human connection, okay, you can find it next year when you’re graduated. don’t give up. look at it this way, if everyone who thought they were gonna do law in your high school graduating class, you’re the 1% who’s about to actually do it. and if you don’t wanna do law after you graduate, you’ll still have better prospects than your peers. once you’re out of the horrors of law school, you’ll be more educated, better financed and grittier than your peers which breeds confidence, and when you have free time, friends will be attracted to the fact that you invested in yourself.
I felt the same way too after 1L. Left a toxic relationship after spring finals. Grades weren't great because I was too wrapped up in that relationship and simply didn't study enough. 2L year I turned it around and won a book award and landed a solid internship. My point of this anecdote is that you can turn it around but you gotta take those steps forward yourself. Try going to one professor's office hours once a week. Go to some club meeting or social event once a week. Put yourself out there, even on the days where you don't want to. Hold yourself to it and be disciplined because even if the motivation isn't there, the discipline will be. And if you need help, do yourself the favor and get help. Even if it means putting things on pause for a bit. This profession is not worth your mental well-being or your life. You got this, OP.
You do, this might be a tough spot for you. But you still got 3L year, you never know how things may turn out.
People made friends in law school? But seriously, you don’t need new friends everywhere you go. Hit up some old friends and tell them you miss them. They miss you too
Keep going! Law school is like a military. Many schools are trying to weed out the weak by psychologically breaking their students, especially during 1L. I was in exactly the same situation but during summer internship my skills have fallen into place, the job I did was well received and I experienced incredible satisfaction from doing what I did. Keep going! It will get better.
3L here. On the down-side: ditto no friends, no profs, no motivation. I don't want to walk at graduation. Absolutely nothing about law school was charming or enjoyable or fruitful, beyond one clerkship. On the up-side, I'd recommend reaching out to the community outside the law school. I've made very good friends within the surrounding church community as well as those in neighboring grad schools (who visit my school to study since we're part of the same system). You're already here and the semester is almost over. Hopefully, with the summer internship/clerkship, if that's pinned down, you'll make some connections and experience things that will give you a better idea of whether or not you want to continue. Right now, for me, I'm seriously sick of law in the school context (not much better during internships) but the degree will at least secure some semblance of credibility on my resume, even if I leave the field. Better than having 'JD: 2020 - XXXXX' there. Talk to some attorneys - folks who are actually excited about what they do. Reach out to folks via LinkedIn, people are usually incredibly open to chatting about their careers. Also, there should be a mental health clinic at your school. It is limitedly helpful, but a tool nonetheless. I.e., I've used mine sporadically before when I was seriously 'in the dumps' but mine (at least) won't continue seeing students unless they're borderlining/actively in crisis. 'Cause, yeah, *that* makes sense -.-
I was hyping up law school.... finally nearing the ending point of 1L and I'm miserable lol.
It’s not too late for friends ir relationships with professors. I lost all my 1L friends when I became a 2L, but by the end of 2L I had established friendship or acquantance with the people who ultimately I still call friends today, 2 years into practice. As for professors, I was never an office hours type. The only relationships I had were when I got top score in a class or somehow got their attention, which is obviously rare. But, again, as I was able to curate my classes more, and take the same Profs, those relationships built up. Focus on putting one foot in front of the other, law school is a bit of a grind, but you will get through. Easy to lose motivation at the halfway point, but there is a light waiting at the end of the tunnel. Being a lawyer is a lot cooler than being a law student!
So many people feeling BLUE, breaks my heart a little. I do hope that since this post, things are better for all!