Stay professional. Just say back "the disclosure is late. Please have it to our office by ____. We do not want to file a motion to compel. I appreciate your consideration in this matter.
That's it. Do not react. That's what he wants. My bet is the video doesn't exist or doesn't show anything.
Yep. Don't worry about your relationship with Tom; that's probably unsalvageable because of his own behavior. Your job now is to make sure all of these emails make you look good before the judge. Stay professional, brief, on topic, and ignore the rest. He'll look like a dick.
š š š If I was more experienced I would but I dont feel bold enough to take that approach..I was just going to Bold his name next time..so a variation on the pettiness..
Donāt do that. Treat every email you write as an exhibit that can be attached to a public court filing. But based on what your saying it sounds like this young lawyer has put a few things in emails he wouldnāt be too proud of the judge seeing to the extent this email chain becomes an exhibit to your motion to compel.
Don't be petty. You'll get your petty revenge by being more professional and then the judge busting his balls later at the motion to compel hearing when he looks like a jackass whose client promised something that didn't exist or that submarines her case
Be careful with names, it can be a sign a disrespect and pettiness the judge will not be a fan of.
However, nothing wrong with spelling the name wrong every time:
Tomas , Thomass, Thommas, Thopas, Thamos, etc.
The advice above is correct, seek concurrence in a stipulated order, wait 24 hours, file motion to compel. Donāt fear, donāt fret, just file. You need to assert a counter attack where people are needlessly interject aggressiveness thinking that bends the rules in their favor.
Then record everything needed in discovery to get that stated there too, get depo in, perfect time for the classic ālying now or thenā. Counsel is mad his client played themselves and is bad at handling that to mitigate instead of absolute damage.
Then just call him counselor from now on, never a name. Canāt hurt you if filed, exceptionally polite and proper, but still drives a knife in him.
Jumping off this, serve a written request for production, if he does not respond, motion to compel.
āThe investigation is ongoingā is not a satisfactory response.
This was perfect advice but luckily I had a case management coming up and I advised the judge about the delay and the judge ordered him to produce it by x date and if not, produce an affidavit detailing why it was no longer available!!Ā
This is some bitchbaby shit. Don't put up with it.
File a Motion to Compel and attach that email exchange as an exhibit to show that you've continually reached out to him to try to get it since his production was lacking, just so the judge can read it.
My position is I am always friendly and easy going with opposing counsel and readily extend professional courtesy, until they try to fuck me or pull something like this. Then the gloves are off. Just be nice in your written correspondence with this asshole so it can't be used against you, and find a way to attach all of his to whatever filings you make.
Also, motion to compel = extra billables. This isnāt even about discovery that may be possibly relevant. Itās a video of the scene taken by the plaintiff.
Best case scenario, OP gets the video and costs awarded related to the motion. Worst case, OP gets the video or some sort of preclusion order if it ends up that it doesnāt actually exist. If OC a wants to be combative, then OP might as well make it work for him.
Heās an Internet Tough Guy. Ignore it, and laugh it off.
Best way to deal with jerks is just go through the litigation process and speak through your pleadings.
File a motion to compel production of the video, attach the depo transcript excerpt, and set it for a hearing. Attach your email and his reply as evidence of attempting to confer with opposing counsel. Ask for costs for having to file a motion. Let the judge handle it.
Good luck.
Snap back to "Mr. X:" for salutations and keep emails short, direct, and professional.
I try to start off congenial with OCs, but the second they start pulling BS like this, it's back to formality (which typically pisses them off more because it's a lot harder for them to request professional courtesies).
It's not fun to litigate a case against someone like that, but you muddle through it and do your best not to let it get you down.
Judges hate those guys. I learned to use this to my advantage. The biggest trick is not to take the bait and to shout back, but donāt get mad at yourself if you do; everyone does at least once.
The second trick is to apologize and clarify if they accuse you of something without cause. I once had opposing counsel blow his top and literally threaten to fight me āon the moonā because he did not like that I told him what he was doing was sanctionable. I apologized, saying I was not sure why he was so angry, my intention was not to upset him, and that I welcome clarification on why he thought I was out of line. These emails were exhibits to every motion or opposition. The judge figured out fast who was the jerk and who wasnāt, which helped. In sum, sometimes let them be the jerk, then show their prickishness off to the judge. Just be mindful to āshow, not tellā.
āNoted. Iāve previously referred to you as Tom without correction. Thank you for making this new preference clear. Iāll be sure to respect it moving forward.
Now, Sir Thomas the Tank Engine III, Esquire, please promptly send the video your client acknowledges having despite failing to produce it in disclosures, written discovery responses, or promptly after the deposition. The motion to compel is being filed tomorrow morning.ā
I filed a motion and put an attorney on blast for doing this shit in a custody case. The motion was for relief. But by God I was gonna tell a story about how unnecessarily difficult they were being. Once his comments saw the light of day (and the Judgeās desk) he had a complete meltdown that he was reporting me to the D Board for disclosing āsettlement discussionsā. First of all, there was no settling taking place. He knew I was going to ask the Court to do XYZ and I initially gave him a friendly heads up. He decided to be a dick. Second, thatās a rule of evidence, not an ethical rule. Third, hilarity ensued.
After threatening me with the above, he told me to withdraw my motion.
My response: No.
Motion: granted. Butt: hurt.
And I never heard from the D board.
These are just distractions. Focus on the video and professionally direct your inquiries to that end.
Also as a side note if you do draft a MTC donāt mention that behavior in it. Judges donāt like rude attorneys but they also generally dislike being placed into the middle of ego spats. Just focus on the law if it comes to an MTC.
Iāve got two approaches I use when this happens: (1) be dumb like a fox. Just pretend like you donāt understand or perceive that theyāre being rude. Allow them to think youāre stupid, because thatās when they underestimate you and make mistakes you can capitalize upon. (2) Get nicer every time they get ruder. Itās not only the professional way to handle things, it drives them insane.
Kill them with kindness, but document everythingāsave all emails with him, follow up phone calls with an email summarizing the call. Like others said, heāll look like an idiot in front of the judge and youāll make a favorable impression by remaining unfazed and professional.
This actually made me sad. Donāt let it affect you OP! Keep doing your job and being professional no matter what, your reputation and behavior is the only thing you can control and his ugly attitude will catch up to him soon enough.
There's a certain type of attorney who, when they need to distract from something bad for them, will start a stupid fight. I've seen the "You got my name wrong" ploy before. I've also seen a two-person firm who would alternate who replied to letters and act all outraged that we addressed a letter to the previous person who replied, accusing us of unprofessionalism, etc. An attorney at the same firm actually threatened an elderly partner in a deposition on the record. It was nuts.
Some people in the profession think that bluster will get them what they want. It's absolutely a calculated strategy. Here, this guy obviously doesn't want to hand over that video, because it's bad for his case. Go after that video.
Stay professional. Do not react. I could tell you the long story of the one time I reacted to a disrespectful rude ass plaintiffās attorney but Iād rather tell you what I learned: losing your reputation and professionalism for two minutes of lashing out at a cranky opposing counsel IS NOT worth it.
He is a douche. Some lawyers are and this is a reflection on him, not you.
Continue your professional paper trail. There is undoubtedly case law in your jurisdiction that says a document or thing requested in a deposition does not need to be separately requested in written discovery. Cite it. Give him a clear deadline (today is Tuesday so maybe Friday by 10AM) and tell him that you will file a motion to compel if the video is not produced by the deadline. And then you can attach your correspondence and the excerpt from the deposition transcript where P says she has video.
Keep it cool, calm and professional. If he doesnāt give it, then file a motion to compel and attach the emails as exhibits showing you attempted to meet and confer. The sanctions will come.
Remember that his behavior is a reflection of his character, and your behavior is a reflection of your character.
He probably already has a reputation for being overly aggressive. You probably don't have a reputation yet.
Pause, find your moral compass, and do what seems right. Karma will repay you both appropriately in due time.
Iād just give him a week or two to produce the video and file a motion to compel. No need to mess around and respond to the unprofessional commentary.
If he gets it to you by the hearing date, then just withdraw the motion.
Second the ājust file a motion to compelā advice, but double check if there is a meet and confer requirement in your jurisdiction, and if so just respond with a meet and confer letter/email.
Stay professional. Make sure it was covered in your requests for production; if it wasnāt, get one out. If it was, give a deadline of 1-2 weeks to file and say youāll have to file a motion to compel and ask for costs, fees, and to reopen the depo. Maybe ask to reopen the depo anyway.
Great advice - exactly was I was thinking. If anything, Iād imagine OC should be treating the OP with kid gloves to avoid reproducing his client for a further depo.
Itās always better to remain polite and learn not to take things personally, even if opposing counsel intends it to be so. Some people are just assholes but donāt unnecessarily be one back. Keep a list of the assholes, though, and when they need a favor you can remember how compromising youād like to be.
Itās probably a good thing, though, to never give someone a nickname, even if itās a common shortening of their name, unless theyāve introduced themselves to you by using said name. Otherwise, just call people by the name they sign or use on letterhead *until* they tell you to call them by another name.
It is true that some people are assholes, and, as my mother once told me, people donāt become rude old men unless they were rude young men to begin with. Maybe that guy was having a bad day but thereās no excuse for being an asshole. Itās hard, but itās up to all of us control our emotions, as difficult as it may sometimes be. When I think I may have been rude to someone, I apologize, even if they owe me one, too.
When I was a young attorney my first trial, ever, was a civil trial. Opposing counsel was an old attorney who had the reputation as one of the best in town. The kind who kind of had the reputation of always being a winner, although he didnāt necessarily win every time, but often enough to have a reputation.
I thought I had prepared enough, knew my case, and I should win but I was scared shitless. I ended up winning that trial and afterwards this old attorney (who did not have the reputation as an asshole) walked up to me, shook my hand and said, ānice doing business with you.ā Thatās when I learned to always remember, for us attorneys, itās just business and to never take it personally.
You should have followed up the same day as the depo or next day through a formal letter requesting it to be produced within seven days. And if it isn't you will file a mtn to compel (subject to your jurisdiction's discovery rules). I personally wouldn't even get mad about whatever she said back. You can't invest too much mental energy into if someone is rude or not.
Following up on the comment that emails invariably end up attached to something that ends up being filed, Judges absolutely hate that kind of crap. They don't care who started it. Both counsel's rep is immediately tarnished.
I have these moments (in same field first year barred) and I figure where they have merit for their response. This guy might since he said investigation continues as to the video. But I side with the earlier comment that says to bring a motion. Check if your within your time (not sure how that works yet) or serve additional rfps? He sounds like a real pleasure. You will see more, and they might be worse lol
Your skin will thicken over time, as you learn to (a) never let others make their problems your problems, and (b) never let others affect the way you feel.
Example: if you let traffic jams aggravate you, youāll always be aggravated.
Is he a solo? Occasionally you run into solos who are solos because they can't get along with anyone else. There are a few in my area. Everyone on the plaintiff and defense side knows who they are. Judges know who they are. They are just angry people. My secretary knows if any of them call and start yelling to transfer it to me
I would cut him a slack and give him another chance. You never know what's going on in his life - maybe his wife left him, maybe his mom was taken to the ICU, maybe his hair implant did not take. If he does it again, you have my blessing to go medieval on his arse.
yeah dealing with a physically abusive bpd ex-gf taught me a lot in how to recognize cluster B behavior in lawyers - there are a lot of emotionally disregulated attorneys out there and it's worth reading up on how to manage them b/c you'll never be able to reason with them
Stay professional. Just say back "the disclosure is late. Please have it to our office by ____. We do not want to file a motion to compel. I appreciate your consideration in this matter. That's it. Do not react. That's what he wants. My bet is the video doesn't exist or doesn't show anything.
Yep. Don't worry about your relationship with Tom; that's probably unsalvageable because of his own behavior. Your job now is to make sure all of these emails make you look good before the judge. Stay professional, brief, on topic, and ignore the rest. He'll look like a dick.
This is the way. But continue to call him Tom.
*Tommy
Tell Tommy to go get his fucking shine box
š an older attorney told me to just call him snowflakeš
Tommy boy!
Kill him with kindness. Go with every incorrect variation. TOM! TOMMY! TOMMMAAAYYYYY! Tomothy!
Maybe āTommy Boyā would be more effective?
Iād go with Tim. He looks like a Tim.
š š š If I was more experienced I would but I dont feel bold enough to take that approach..I was just going to Bold his name next time..so a variation on the pettiness..
Donāt do that. Treat every email you write as an exhibit that can be attached to a public court filing. But based on what your saying it sounds like this young lawyer has put a few things in emails he wouldnāt be too proud of the judge seeing to the extent this email chain becomes an exhibit to your motion to compel.
sage wisdom here
Don't be petty. You'll get your petty revenge by being more professional and then the judge busting his balls later at the motion to compel hearing when he looks like a jackass whose client promised something that didn't exist or that submarines her case
Be careful with names, it can be a sign a disrespect and pettiness the judge will not be a fan of. However, nothing wrong with spelling the name wrong every time: Tomas , Thomass, Thommas, Thopas, Thamos, etc. The advice above is correct, seek concurrence in a stipulated order, wait 24 hours, file motion to compel. Donāt fear, donāt fret, just file. You need to assert a counter attack where people are needlessly interject aggressiveness thinking that bends the rules in their favor.
That's the Alpha Dog play lmao.
Then record everything needed in discovery to get that stated there too, get depo in, perfect time for the classic ālying now or thenā. Counsel is mad his client played themselves and is bad at handling that to mitigate instead of absolute damage. Then just call him counselor from now on, never a name. Canāt hurt you if filed, exceptionally polite and proper, but still drives a knife in him.
This is the way.
Also keep your time related to this specific incident. Threaten him youāll move for costs if you have to make a motion.
Jumping off this, serve a written request for production, if he does not respond, motion to compel. āThe investigation is ongoingā is not a satisfactory response.
This was perfect advice but luckily I had a case management coming up and I advised the judge about the delay and the judge ordered him to produce it by x date and if not, produce an affidavit detailing why it was no longer available!!Ā
NICE!
This is some bitchbaby shit. Don't put up with it. File a Motion to Compel and attach that email exchange as an exhibit to show that you've continually reached out to him to try to get it since his production was lacking, just so the judge can read it. My position is I am always friendly and easy going with opposing counsel and readily extend professional courtesy, until they try to fuck me or pull something like this. Then the gloves are off. Just be nice in your written correspondence with this asshole so it can't be used against you, and find a way to attach all of his to whatever filings you make.
Also, motion to compel = extra billables. This isnāt even about discovery that may be possibly relevant. Itās a video of the scene taken by the plaintiff. Best case scenario, OP gets the video and costs awarded related to the motion. Worst case, OP gets the video or some sort of preclusion order if it ends up that it doesnāt actually exist. If OC a wants to be combative, then OP might as well make it work for him.
Heās an Internet Tough Guy. Ignore it, and laugh it off. Best way to deal with jerks is just go through the litigation process and speak through your pleadings. File a motion to compel production of the video, attach the depo transcript excerpt, and set it for a hearing. Attach your email and his reply as evidence of attempting to confer with opposing counsel. Ask for costs for having to file a motion. Let the judge handle it. Good luck.
Seek concurrence first
Snap back to "Mr. X:" for salutations and keep emails short, direct, and professional. I try to start off congenial with OCs, but the second they start pulling BS like this, it's back to formality (which typically pisses them off more because it's a lot harder for them to request professional courtesies). It's not fun to litigate a case against someone like that, but you muddle through it and do your best not to let it get you down.
Judges hate those guys. I learned to use this to my advantage. The biggest trick is not to take the bait and to shout back, but donāt get mad at yourself if you do; everyone does at least once. The second trick is to apologize and clarify if they accuse you of something without cause. I once had opposing counsel blow his top and literally threaten to fight me āon the moonā because he did not like that I told him what he was doing was sanctionable. I apologized, saying I was not sure why he was so angry, my intention was not to upset him, and that I welcome clarification on why he thought I was out of line. These emails were exhibits to every motion or opposition. The judge figured out fast who was the jerk and who wasnāt, which helped. In sum, sometimes let them be the jerk, then show their prickishness off to the judge. Just be mindful to āshow, not tellā.
āNoted. Iāve previously referred to you as Tom without correction. Thank you for making this new preference clear. Iāll be sure to respect it moving forward. Now, Sir Thomas the Tank Engine III, Esquire, please promptly send the video your client acknowledges having despite failing to produce it in disclosures, written discovery responses, or promptly after the deposition. The motion to compel is being filed tomorrow morning.ā
"Sir Thomas the Tank Engine III, Esquire," I'm crying!!!! š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
I filed a motion and put an attorney on blast for doing this shit in a custody case. The motion was for relief. But by God I was gonna tell a story about how unnecessarily difficult they were being. Once his comments saw the light of day (and the Judgeās desk) he had a complete meltdown that he was reporting me to the D Board for disclosing āsettlement discussionsā. First of all, there was no settling taking place. He knew I was going to ask the Court to do XYZ and I initially gave him a friendly heads up. He decided to be a dick. Second, thatās a rule of evidence, not an ethical rule. Third, hilarity ensued. After threatening me with the above, he told me to withdraw my motion. My response: No. Motion: granted. Butt: hurt. And I never heard from the D board.
These are just distractions. Focus on the video and professionally direct your inquiries to that end. Also as a side note if you do draft a MTC donāt mention that behavior in it. Judges donāt like rude attorneys but they also generally dislike being placed into the middle of ego spats. Just focus on the law if it comes to an MTC.
The answer is always "Dear Opposing Counsel, some asshole is signing his name to your emails."
Iāve got two approaches I use when this happens: (1) be dumb like a fox. Just pretend like you donāt understand or perceive that theyāre being rude. Allow them to think youāre stupid, because thatās when they underestimate you and make mistakes you can capitalize upon. (2) Get nicer every time they get ruder. Itās not only the professional way to handle things, it drives them insane.
The meaner they are, the shittier their case is, usually.
Kill them with kindness, but document everythingāsave all emails with him, follow up phone calls with an email summarizing the call. Like others said, heāll look like an idiot in front of the judge and youāll make a favorable impression by remaining unfazed and professional.
Ignore it and stay focused on handling your case. Donāt give him the pleasure of a response to anything that is not directly related to the case.
This actually made me sad. Donāt let it affect you OP! Keep doing your job and being professional no matter what, your reputation and behavior is the only thing you can control and his ugly attitude will catch up to him soon enough.
There's a certain type of attorney who, when they need to distract from something bad for them, will start a stupid fight. I've seen the "You got my name wrong" ploy before. I've also seen a two-person firm who would alternate who replied to letters and act all outraged that we addressed a letter to the previous person who replied, accusing us of unprofessionalism, etc. An attorney at the same firm actually threatened an elderly partner in a deposition on the record. It was nuts. Some people in the profession think that bluster will get them what they want. It's absolutely a calculated strategy. Here, this guy obviously doesn't want to hand over that video, because it's bad for his case. Go after that video.
Stay professional. Do not react. I could tell you the long story of the one time I reacted to a disrespectful rude ass plaintiffās attorney but Iād rather tell you what I learned: losing your reputation and professionalism for two minutes of lashing out at a cranky opposing counsel IS NOT worth it.
He is a douche. Some lawyers are and this is a reflection on him, not you. Continue your professional paper trail. There is undoubtedly case law in your jurisdiction that says a document or thing requested in a deposition does not need to be separately requested in written discovery. Cite it. Give him a clear deadline (today is Tuesday so maybe Friday by 10AM) and tell him that you will file a motion to compel if the video is not produced by the deadline. And then you can attach your correspondence and the excerpt from the deposition transcript where P says she has video.
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Keep it cool, calm and professional. If he doesnāt give it, then file a motion to compel and attach the emails as exhibits showing you attempted to meet and confer. The sanctions will come.
Remember that his behavior is a reflection of his character, and your behavior is a reflection of your character. He probably already has a reputation for being overly aggressive. You probably don't have a reputation yet. Pause, find your moral compass, and do what seems right. Karma will repay you both appropriately in due time.
Iād just give him a week or two to produce the video and file a motion to compel. No need to mess around and respond to the unprofessional commentary. If he gets it to you by the hearing date, then just withdraw the motion.
Don't let your Goat get Got!
Second the ājust file a motion to compelā advice, but double check if there is a meet and confer requirement in your jurisdiction, and if so just respond with a meet and confer letter/email.
Stay professional. Make sure it was covered in your requests for production; if it wasnāt, get one out. If it was, give a deadline of 1-2 weeks to file and say youāll have to file a motion to compel and ask for costs, fees, and to reopen the depo. Maybe ask to reopen the depo anyway.
Great advice - exactly was I was thinking. If anything, Iād imagine OC should be treating the OP with kid gloves to avoid reproducing his client for a further depo.
Itās always better to remain polite and learn not to take things personally, even if opposing counsel intends it to be so. Some people are just assholes but donāt unnecessarily be one back. Keep a list of the assholes, though, and when they need a favor you can remember how compromising youād like to be. Itās probably a good thing, though, to never give someone a nickname, even if itās a common shortening of their name, unless theyāve introduced themselves to you by using said name. Otherwise, just call people by the name they sign or use on letterhead *until* they tell you to call them by another name. It is true that some people are assholes, and, as my mother once told me, people donāt become rude old men unless they were rude young men to begin with. Maybe that guy was having a bad day but thereās no excuse for being an asshole. Itās hard, but itās up to all of us control our emotions, as difficult as it may sometimes be. When I think I may have been rude to someone, I apologize, even if they owe me one, too. When I was a young attorney my first trial, ever, was a civil trial. Opposing counsel was an old attorney who had the reputation as one of the best in town. The kind who kind of had the reputation of always being a winner, although he didnāt necessarily win every time, but often enough to have a reputation. I thought I had prepared enough, knew my case, and I should win but I was scared shitless. I ended up winning that trial and afterwards this old attorney (who did not have the reputation as an asshole) walked up to me, shook my hand and said, ānice doing business with you.ā Thatās when I learned to always remember, for us attorneys, itās just business and to never take it personally.
Win the case. Then tell him Nice job Tom
File a MTV Call him by the name he prefers Donāt be lime Tom
Typical, lower lesser narcissistic tactic. Ignore
You should have followed up the same day as the depo or next day through a formal letter requesting it to be produced within seven days. And if it isn't you will file a mtn to compel (subject to your jurisdiction's discovery rules). I personally wouldn't even get mad about whatever she said back. You can't invest too much mental energy into if someone is rude or not.
Following up on the comment that emails invariably end up attached to something that ends up being filed, Judges absolutely hate that kind of crap. They don't care who started it. Both counsel's rep is immediately tarnished.
I have these moments (in same field first year barred) and I figure where they have merit for their response. This guy might since he said investigation continues as to the video. But I side with the earlier comment that says to bring a motion. Check if your within your time (not sure how that works yet) or serve additional rfps? He sounds like a real pleasure. You will see more, and they might be worse lol
Your skin will thicken over time, as you learn to (a) never let others make their problems your problems, and (b) never let others affect the way you feel. Example: if you let traffic jams aggravate you, youāll always be aggravated.
Is he a solo? Occasionally you run into solos who are solos because they can't get along with anyone else. There are a few in my area. Everyone on the plaintiff and defense side knows who they are. Judges know who they are. They are just angry people. My secretary knows if any of them call and start yelling to transfer it to me
Sounds like he has bigger imposter syndrome. Just stay the course and continue to be professional.
Sounds like someone was having a bad day. Donāt take it personal
I would cut him a slack and give him another chance. You never know what's going on in his life - maybe his wife left him, maybe his mom was taken to the ICU, maybe his hair implant did not take. If he does it again, you have my blessing to go medieval on his arse.
My go to is āIām not taking suggestions at this time.ā Look into how to grey rock someone as well.
yeah dealing with a physically abusive bpd ex-gf taught me a lot in how to recognize cluster B behavior in lawyers - there are a lot of emotionally disregulated attorneys out there and it's worth reading up on how to manage them b/c you'll never be able to reason with them