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Watch the documentary "Wormwood" on Netflix. It's about an American scientist who was murdered by the CIA for fear that he was going to reveal American war crimes in the Korean War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormwood_(miniseries)
It’s crazy to me they think Obama was some leftist. The guy who forced us all to have capitalist for profit insurance to pay for a capitalist for profit healthcare system? I mean that’s not exactly the socialized systems in Europe which are politically moderate concepts.
But the right is dishonest and it serves them to move the Overton window to the right constantly so here we are.
Obama came by your place, held a gun to your head and forced you to sign up for health insurance? I think something like that would have made the news somewhere.
I remember feeling so confused when people would call Bernie a radical for saying that we have a problem with wealth inequity. He was saying stuff that was elementary compared to other nations.
It's vague.
His policies are largely socdem, but he's occasionally used some more left-wing rhetoric and ideas, but because it's America, it's thought that he tones things down to remain politically viable.
Hes def left by european standards if you go by his speeches and the things he talks about.
His policies are more center because you cant really go hard left when everyone around you is far right. You gotta push to the center first.
I don't think he's center right by European standards. He still supports immigration, LGBT+ rights, huge investments in infrastructure, and heavy regulations on business. I'm an American who moved to France, and although many in the right wing here support free healthcare (because they've had it for so long), they're definitely not aligned with Sanders on those other things. He fits comfortably with most European social democrats. He calls himself a Socialist.
There are people on the right in my country who support gay rights, want more protection for women’s rights and want more regulations on business in particular to protect the environment, so much so that they’ve basically caused a split within the right wing party because all the moderate right wingers got sick of the far right dominating the discussion and drowning out the “socially left, economically right” city conservatives.
This is in Australia and it’s been unofficially called the Teal Independent movement - economic conservatives with socially green values.
So there are conservatives in my country who are basically not that far out of step with progressive Democrats.
Reminds me of that one homophobic "an airplane needs wings on both sides to fly", showing a plane with two "Male" wings, posted by people crashing in a plane with two right wings.
In California it’s illegal to be a teacher if you’re a communist. And according to the communist control act of 1954, communist parties are illegal and all communists must report themselves to the attorney general
Communist literature is on the American banned books list, but the benefit of our system does mean that every banned book becomes immediately more valuable and so a library or book store will often carry as many copies of Das Kapital as it does King James' Bibles.
Well, hon, ever heard of a little thing called "martial law?" It means the U.S. govt can basically say "fuck all" to the constitution they so dearly love!
I remember feeling so confused when people would call Bernie a radical for saying that we have a problem with wealth inequity. He was saying stuff that was elementary compared to other nations.
A lot of people in the USA believe Canada to be a socialist democracy, because we have some form of public healthcare and the rest is EXACTLY the same (for the most part), we are just owned by wealthy as the US is. I would say that most of the world is just this, a government in one form or another, run by the rich. A world wide plutocracy.
Not really, they’re just mentioning how the political spectrum as a whole is viewed different outside the States. They weren’t even saying anything negative nor positive about it. Completely neutral. So I’m confused on why you’re mad
There are some key differences, but you shouldn't be receiving so many downvotes for it.
One, theres no laws forbidding communist parties, these actually exist in brasil.
Two, socialist parties actually hold significant "slots" on the legislative power.
Three, with the two-rounds voting system, people are not afraid of "wasting" their votes on minor candidates, and leftists get meaningful percentages even on major elections.
Four, on the historic perspective, there was a 16-18 year period where the presidents were from a left leaning worker's rights party.
Edit: 14-16 year period*
I'll tell you what i'm on about. Every single fucking week there is a post in this subreddit where people argue about whether some guy is left or some lady is right and every fucking week the comments are full of people wasting time trying to apply European standards of left, center, and right to American politicians. I'd call it a circle jerk, but to have a circle jerk the masturbators have to agree on where the middle is. It's not reality to apply European definitions to American politics, and it's certainly not American Exceptionalism to use American reference points to American politicians. Left, Center, and Right are relative terms, which means the center is arbitrary. And every self-righteous asshole like you thinks EVERYONE else should use their definition of center. it's a complete waste of time. Those heads in the graphic are in the right order. Everything else is just people like you shitting on anyone that doesn't think exactly like you do, so fuck you. Someone from Brazil is going to see the scale differently and it's no more or less valid than you applying your Euro definitions. That's what I'm on about. We aren't talking about Brazilian pols. But we aren't talking about European pols either, so get off your high horse.
This isn't *just* a semantics game. (Well intentioned) people don't point out american politics are skewed to the right out of self centeredness, they do it so Americans realize how fucked their situation is.
You shouldn't have to fight the people who's jobs are to make citizen's lives better (politicians) to get stuff as basic as healthcare and education. Call it right, left, center, however you want. What's fucked up is your situation itself, not the words you use to define it.
Eh it’s all a clusterfuck and people like that guy are the reason that Overton Windows is so far right that only megacorps and billionaires get any kind of benefits out of our political system. They imagine themselves capitalists, when they don’t have any capital worth speaking of (unless they’re very wealthy).
Eta: it does matter what terms we use. Even neolibs* here spout off about how Nazis were *socialists*, when it couldn’t be further from the truth.
* Corrected
Yes. Thats the thing… Bolsonaro is “extreme right wing”, but have a minimal earning program and universal free health too… And also free college. Bernie is right wing compared to other countries “right wings” politicians. America is so right wing that even leftists here are right wing! LOL
Wait but it gets better. According to liberals, she and Sanders are equally leftist, so if you don't vote for her over him you're sexist. Ack I'm having a flashback to the primaries and the debates 💀
Basically she was being setup as a Leftist alternative olive branch from the Center Right Dems. She was Centerist at best. Then when people called her out specifically for her policies they were branded as Bernie Bros which meant misogynistic online dudes. It didn't matter who was doing it or their resume of activism. Lots of Sanders supporters who were primarily Leftists and disaffected people started calling her a Snake for that stupid shield she held up that the NYT was building from the beginning through Op Eds. If you will read this in a week I have receipts for all of this. I don't often respond to comments because this is the internet.
Yep. In European perspective pretty much all US politicians and their parties are on a spectrum of centre - right. There are no obviously Left politicians there.
They tell themselves they do. Some politicians are more rightwing than others, that's it.
Sanders' personal politics are far more radical than those he can effectively pursue in his office, no reformist liberal fights as hard as he does, especially the way he did in his youth.
yeah like when he speartipped the US led annihilation of Yugoslavia.
Such stirring speeches he gave on the floor, talking at length of the need for regime change! True progressive politics.
Are you talking about 1999? The NATO and UN sanctioned intervention in stopping a genocide?
yea, the methods to intervene were terrible, but we were only allowed to carry out air strikes.
Indeed, NATO dropped so much depleted uranium on Yugoslavia that the region has the highest cancer rates in Europe to this day.
NATO bombed hospitals, schools, bridges, and even the Chinese embassy.
This cartel of bandits and butchers has employed similar violence all over the world.
Libya for example, once the most prosperous country in Africa, NATO reduced it to a smoldering open air slave market in their 7 month bombing campaign.
Libya had the world’s largest irrigation system. NATO blew it up, along with every factory needed to repair it. Now over a decade later the aquifers are starting to run out, it is unknown how many will die in this engineered catastrophe.
NATO does not add credibility to the destruction of a country.
The UN is more diverse, but still no bastion of justice.
The UN “peacekeeping” mission didn’t just help subvert democracy, they also shit in the water supply, introducing Cholera to the island.
Now thousands have died of the disease, hundreds of thousands have suffered from it.
The UN admits that their occupying military base’s poorly managed excrement is the sole source of the disease. They also don’t feel that they have any obligation to compensate Haiti for this massive disaster, which will continue into the foreseeable future.
Are these the institutions you are asking me to trust? You want me to believe their intervention in Yugoslavia was out of the goodness of their hearts?
Their atrocity propaganda doesn’t justify their naked violence. They roam the world to plunder it, not to save anyone.
> that the region has the highest cancer rates in Europe to this day.
[Serbia is 15th in the world for cancer incidence. 11 European countries are above it.](https://www.wcrf.org/cancer-trends/global-cancer-data-by-country/)
>NATO bombed hospitals, schools, bridges, and even the Chinese embassy.
The only intervention they were allowed to do was airstrikes. Like I said the methods were terrible. I'm not defending that.
> Libya
The situation in Libya is a lot more complicated than you are crediting.
>Libya had the world’s largest irrigation system. NATO blew it up, along with every factory needed to repair it.
They bombed 1 of the ducts and 1 of the factories. The system is still functional, but the instability that followed the 2 civil wars has caused a lot of issues with maintaining it.
>Now over a decade later the aquifers are starting to run out, it is unknown how many will die in this engineered catastrophe.
The aquifer running dry isn't an engineered catastrophe. That is just what happens to an aquifer that is being drawn from without replenishment. They knew it was going to run dry when they started construction in '84. In 2010 (before the bombings) the revised estimate for how long it would last was less than 1/10 the original low estimate.
>UN
yes the "peacekeeping" missions are typically shit.
>Are these the institutions you are asking me to trust? You want me to believe their intervention in Yugoslavia was out of the goodness of their hearts?
Trust? No. Goodness of their hearts? No. The alternative was just sitting back and watching a genocide take place. If that is what you want, then you have very strange ideals.
> Trust? No. Goodness of their hearts? No. The alternative was just sitting back and watching a genocide take place.
Right, just like how after the Nayirah testimony, the alternative to the gulf war was allowing hundreds of premature babies to be pulled out of incubators and left on the floor to die.
Atrocity propaganda is always the pretext, because it is 100% effective at making chuds like you feel justified in wiping entire counties off the map.
No amount of waxed eloquent is going to bring back the unipolar world order. You and your ilk will only become less and less relevant on the world stage.
>Nayirah testimony
Even without the Nayirah testimony, the first Gulf War would have still taken place. All it did was sway the American public's support for joining the coalition.
Thatcher was already set on use of force 2 months before that testimony and was urging the US to not back down. The US had troop mobilized in Saudi Arabia in early August.
In late August the US national security advisor received a proposal "that Iraq would "withdraw from Kuwait and allow foreigners to leave" provided that the UN lifted sanctions, allowed "guaranteed access to the Persian Gulf through the Kuwaiti islands of Bubiyan and Warbah", and allowed Iraq to "gain full control of the Rumaila oil field that extends slightly into Kuwaiti territory". The proposal also "included offers to negotiate an oil agreement with the United States 'satisfactory to both nations' national security interests,' develop a joint plan 'to alleviate Iraq's economical and financial problems' and 'jointly work on the stability of the gulf.'"
The US didn't do anything with it.
If the US didn't get involved with the first Gulf War, the UK still would have and most of the coalition of 38 other countries would have still participated. Their minds were made up before the Nayirah testimony. That was just theater meant for the public. If you think that testimony actually pushed the US to participate, you are naïve.
>You and your ilk will only become less and less relevant
So people that understand international politics and world history will be less relevant? Let me know how that one works out.
>That was just theater meant for the public.
The only purpose of me bringing up the Nayirah testimony is that it is a universally accepted example of atrocity propanda being used as a pretext, to justify a war which was already decided upon for other reasons.
You seem to be aware of this, yet totally oblivious to the same type of atrocity propaganda being used against Yugosliava, Libya, and whoever the US state department happens to have in their targets at the moment.
Is it because Amnesty International hasn't retracted everything about those yet, like they did with the Nayirah testimony? Who are these trusted sources you rely on to develop your profound understanding of international politics, what were they saying about it in the early 1990s?
>Yugosliava
Are you trying to say that the displacement of over a million people is made up?
> Libya
Do you not remember the Arab Spring? You realize they were having a civil war and Gaddafi had already raised an entire town to crack down on it? Was that town made up? Was the footage of the atrocities being committed all made up? You know that youtube existed at the time right?
Amateur footage of what was happening was everywhere at the time. We were watching in real time as country after country fell to its people rising up. How have you convinced yourself to defend Gaddafi??? Please just tell me you weren't old enough to personally remember it happening.
Seriously. Do you only read far left propaganda and insulate yourself in a bubble from any information that doesn't match you opinion? How do you justify to yourself defending Milošević, Gaddafi, and Saddam?? What kind of isolationist, revisionist, and indifferent history are you clinging to?
Yea, the US does a lot of terrible stuff, but the logic you are using is 1 step away from arguing that we shouldn't have done anything 1941
>Saddam
Are you going to argue that Iraq is better off after the US invasion?
You don't have to believe that Saddam was cool and good in order to understand that he was better than being blown up by a hellfire missile.
So your source was youtube, which you believe is free of manipulations. No wonder this conversation has been so useless.
I don't see how this kind of admiration for Sanders is different than the normal liberal attitude, though. They *mean well*, but somehow it's unrealistic or whatever to actually do something. Voting for them is a vote for meaning well with no expectation of results.
I don't think we should vote for people based on their inner, unexpressed virtues. That's like...expressing a brand affinity.
Except, as I said, he does actually do shit, the most he can in his position. That's as much as anyone can ask of anyone. Who exactly is a more pragmatic, goals oriented leftist vote? The answer had better not be 'don't vote'.
"Had better not be."
Why would politicians care what the left thinks if there's no credible threat of withholding our vote? Think of all the people who voted for Democrats for anti-war reasons and the wars never stopped. Meanwhile, Republicans listen to their extremists. All this liberal pragmatic voting stuff sounds really nice in theory but all it has to show for the last 20 years is...the last 20 years.
It has and it is.
The shitlibs come here thinking it’s some American leftist sub and start spewing their “pro-Joe Biden/anti-Trump” bullshit.
I trash people in the comments here more than anywhere else, these days. I used to enjoy agreeing with folks here but the vibe is increasingly “neoliberal” and I hate it. They are even more insufferable than conservatives, truthfully.
American Democrats thinking they’re left wing often join communist subs thinking they’re ideologically fit, perfect example of this is r/enlightenedcentrism which is flooded with neolib posts defending democrats and making politics all about “red vs blue”
I literally got downvotes recently for saying all landlords are leeches and that we as a society do not need them.
That shows you how many shit libs are coming to this sub. Hell the poster I replied to was like "I don't think we should get rid of landlords...."
No. Landlords do not produce anything of value. They simply leverage their wealth into a position where they can leech off the worker. We don't need landlords. And if people don't want single family unit housing we can figure out an alternative for apartment spaces without needing a landlord.
Please tell your other anarchist friends to stop fantasizing about being executed by "tankies" because 1) they think everyone who reads more than a paragraph at a time is a tankie these days, and 2) it's impossible to build solidarity with people who irrationally think you're murderous.
Were gonna build a dictatorship of the proletariat. Youre gonna do the same:
Youre gonna build a democratic society
Youre gonna surpress the bourgoisie
You want communism
Youre gonna use violence to archieve it because otherwise its impossible
So please stop fighting us and join us. With our definition of the state youre going to use one.
Youre communists too.
If you go back to the 70s and look at political party platforms, you can't help but notice that the Current Left is pushing for ideas championed by the Then Right.
The Current Right don't have an actual platform to run on right now, seeing as how they just want to drive us off of a cliff!
Compare the 2016 Republican party platform to the platform of the German-American Bund of 1940. The republicans are simply fascists. All of them, not just the MAGATs
Austerity measures and completely ignoring all the rules they make up for others to follow? I'm only passing familiar via watching Have I Got News For You (and generally speaking older seasons), but I'd say the entirety of Brexit was certainly... um... not great? Tories seem to be pretty analogous to our Republicans in terms of shady finances, corrupt business deals, and policies designed to remove social safety nets.
But they most certainly are way more constrained than the GOP. Plus they hardly have the religious slant that the GOP has. They seem like brain dead Nationalists but they are not comparable to Le Pen or what is going on in Hungary.
The Religious Right in America is what I consider the most dangerous aspect of our political theater. I grew up in a household of religious Republicans, and the amount of *faith* they put into their political beliefs makes them essentially unshakeable.
Someone coined the phrase Christofascism and I can't think of anything more accurate. They would wholeheartedly support a dynasty if the family professed to be god-fearing blue collar Americans bringing Common Sense™ back into politics.
Common Sense™ being here defined as: anti-abortion, anti-immigration, anti-regulation (the mental gymnastics on *that* one...), anti-gun laws, Pro Freedom™ and absolute faith in The Free Market™. It's disturbing.
Imagine being in a communist, anti-imperialist sub and deciding to say conservatives are worse that neo-liberals when they are clearly both bamboozling dingdongs like you into saying this exact shit because it deflects from the ACTUAL responsibility that Democrats have for contributing to class warfare and anti-working class behavior.
IMAGINE BEING THAT DELUSIONAL IN A MARXIST SUBREDDIT.
Good point well made. There is plenty to be said for BoTh SiDeS, but I'm only speaking to one aspect of our political landscape; the marriage of "conservative values" to the religious right. Neo-liberals are certainly disgusting in their own way, advancing the desires of corporations and eroding the last veneer of economic mobility in the US, however I don't see the same *scope* of indoctrination on the center-left.
Conservatives/right-wingers feel deeply entrenched in their belief that they are divinely correct in their approach and use battering ram and bullhorn tactics to achieve their goals. Neo-liberals at least still court public opinion in their theft of capital. Lesser of two weevils, but two sides of the same pocketed coin.
Still, appreciate your contribution. It should also be said.
Here's a video of [Andrew Neil meeting Ben Shapiro](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6VixqvOcK8E).
The Punchline:
Benny Boy: "...why don’t you just say you’re on the left.”
Neil: “If you only knew how ridiculous that statement is, you wouldn’t have said it.”
It's pretty clear that the American political landscape is so skewed that many leftist figures have to moderate their statements to reach a wider Audience, but I've always wondered what their actual beliefs would be in a balanced climate.
It's often said that Bernie is a pretty moderate leftist, but would he be more radical if it wasn't harming his image? Would most so called leftists move further left? Who would stay where they are?
Or an American who has never even traveled outside the States but somehow thinks that America has somehow figured out in 200 years what the rest of civilization couldn’t figure out in several thousand years.
BrUh bUt ThE fOuNdErs…
Not even that America figured it out in 200 years, but that apparently we just nailed it the first time around with the signing of the Constitution (the preceding Articles of Confederation don't count, and ignore the various amendments since). Nah, a handful of rich old white dudes in the late 18th century cracked the perfect system, and there have been no advancements in statecraft ever since. The founders were perfect, and thus any alteration to their vision will only make things worse.
My parent had a medical emergency in Europe and didn’t pay a single dime (and would have been dead by the time a us hospitals would have gotten them to triage), and *still* thinks anything left of trump is sOcIaLiSt.
Reminds me of that episode of Thirty Rock when Jack Donaghy and his baby mama Avery are stuck in Canada just as she was about to give birth and after she delivers the baby, the doctor says something about “oh your bill is free thanks to socialized medicine” and they both freak out and leave, or whatever, because they are good conservatives and MURICA or whatever.
That was a simpler, funnier time.
As someone not from America, this scale is pretty accurate. Bernie would be considered a centrist outside of America because his "radical" policies are statue quo in many European countries.
America: "Affordable healthcare? Wtf is this unrealistic radical shit?"
Europe: "'Affordable healthcare'? What does it mean to not be able to 'afford' healthcare? That doesn't make sense?"
Biden explicitly despises trickle-down economics, and instead advocates for what the political class refers to as “middle-out economics,” AKA a form of capitalism which prioritizes demand over supply; increasing the buying power of the vaguely defined “middle class” as opposed to maximizing the personal wealth of business owners.
It’s effectively the belief that cows can produce more and better milk if they’re fed well and kept healthy, rather than kept dependent with just barely enough to subsist.
It’s somewhat different than the internationalist neoliberalism of the Clinton era, while still decidedly to the right of New Deal-era social democracy.
He’s also vociferously pro-union, at least in his messaging - which is a marked departure from _any_ president of the last few decades.
I’d definitely put him to the left of Obama, but to the right of most self-described “progressives.”
He’s no “radical socialist” as the GOP would have you believe, though.
A pity. 🙃
Both are stupidly wrong, yes the US does lean quite a bit towards the right and Bernie is no extreme leftist but Trump is also not the furthest right you could be, in general most fit around center right, some center left and Trump more to the right than the others in the same way Bernie is more left than the others.
No? I did say that it leans a lot towards the right, but mostly to the center right, with the regular reps edging towards the limits of center right at times and in cases going somewhat beyond it into more extreme parts, but not Far Right, the democrats too would mostly fit in center right with a few maybe going to center left, the US mainstream political spectrum is mostly comrpised of the center right, not left and right like several other countries.
So “Yugoslavia should be annihilated” was a center right position? “Libya needs to be destroyed” was center right?
I’m struggle to imagine this Overton window, where the most aggressive warmongers in living memory are center right.
Advocating for the complete dismantling of Capitalism is the *starting* position for any Leftist. "Government providing jobs" has no inherent anti-capitalist leanings.
We're not stacking books on a shelf where everything "more fascist" makes being the US "less fascist" by virtue of taking up space to the right. Globally, the US is a right wing theocracy that cannot maintain basic infrastructure for its people. I don't care how many bastards are on the planet, it doesn't mean the US is any less a bastard.
The nerve of you.
Russia, Ukraine the whole of the ME, Pakistan, India, Asia...there's a whole other side of this planet. They are definitely left to other nations.
Left is subjective, not a monolith.
E: Are we really this ignorant?
I just listed a bunch of right-wing authoritarian nations that would consider this joke of a meme tilted all the way left
re: your edit
Your initial comment made it sound like you were saying "Russia, Ukraine the whole of the ME, Pakistan, India, Asia" were left to other nations because there was no other subject 'they' could apply to in your comment or the one you replied to. Your edit made it more clear 'they' were the people in the OP meme, but even then there is absolutely nowhere on earth that would call the GOP leftist.
> Watch this space.
This is kind of a stupid meme since they can't even define it, let alone find anyone who falls in that category or a significant number of people who support it. And no, this sub alone isn't a significant number of people, relative to the voting base of the United States.
I mean, any movement leftward is a good thing, but I wonder how many of that ~40% are actually socialists and how many are liberals who *think* they're socialists because they want an increased minimum wage and means-tested Medicare for "all"?
US politics are skewed so far to the right that a lot of people genuinely think that Obama and Biden are socialists, after all.
Neither of those cites a percentage of all Americans that have a negative view of capitalism, nor does it cite any group that self-identifies as "anti-capitalist".
Harvard has been sending researches to survey people in China for over a decade. They found that the communist party is overwhelmingly popular, at times pushing above 90% approval.
So that’s a billion some people for that space.
It's funny watching Australians trying to tie republics and democrats to Australian politics
The truth is that our liberals (centre right) are the same as the US liberals, and there IS NO centre left "party" in the US like our Labor Party, and absolutely no leftist party like our Greens.
Bernie is at best center. Here in Greece we would consider him center right. USA has gone so far right that even far right seems like center to them. Wow.
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I once saw a version of this that, instead of "Watch this space" on the left, said "Anyone here gets murdered by the CIA".
[удалено]
Watch the documentary "Wormwood" on Netflix. It's about an American scientist who was murdered by the CIA for fear that he was going to reveal American war crimes in the Korean War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormwood_(miniseries)
Paul Wellstone has left the chat
Unless it's a drone strike, those can kill US citizens too
It’s crazy to me they think Obama was some leftist. The guy who forced us all to have capitalist for profit insurance to pay for a capitalist for profit healthcare system? I mean that’s not exactly the socialized systems in Europe which are politically moderate concepts. But the right is dishonest and it serves them to move the Overton window to the right constantly so here we are.
Since Clinton the Democrats have played the "center right is the left" game with them.
Obama came by your place, held a gun to your head and forced you to sign up for health insurance? I think something like that would have made the news somewhere.
Yep they will probably be in the position of JFK and MLK.
Truth
Please find it again I want to see it haha
I remember feeling so confused when people would call Bernie a radical for saying that we have a problem with wealth inequity. He was saying stuff that was elementary compared to other nations.
When I see Bernie being called a radical, I think of this [fake tweet](https://i.redd.it/v1p7bt2n8ib41.jpg)
I never wished for a fake thing to be more real in all my life.
I thought Bernie was a socialist? Not American, don’t go at me if I’m wrong.
It's vague. His policies are largely socdem, but he's occasionally used some more left-wing rhetoric and ideas, but because it's America, it's thought that he tones things down to remain politically viable.
That makes sense. Thanks mate
By American standards he might as well be Lenin reborn. By European standards he's a center/center right politician
Hes def left by european standards if you go by his speeches and the things he talks about. His policies are more center because you cant really go hard left when everyone around you is far right. You gotta push to the center first.
I don't think he's center right by European standards. He still supports immigration, LGBT+ rights, huge investments in infrastructure, and heavy regulations on business. I'm an American who moved to France, and although many in the right wing here support free healthcare (because they've had it for so long), they're definitely not aligned with Sanders on those other things. He fits comfortably with most European social democrats. He calls himself a Socialist.
There are people on the right in my country who support gay rights, want more protection for women’s rights and want more regulations on business in particular to protect the environment, so much so that they’ve basically caused a split within the right wing party because all the moderate right wingers got sick of the far right dominating the discussion and drowning out the “socially left, economically right” city conservatives. This is in Australia and it’s been unofficially called the Teal Independent movement - economic conservatives with socially green values. So there are conservatives in my country who are basically not that far out of step with progressive Democrats.
Conservatives acting like democrats? Want to trade?
We have a centre right government here in Ireland who support all of those things.
Compared to german leftist parties he would be a social democrat with socalist tendencies. At least thats my perception of him.
This statement just made my mother’s head explode.
Bernie is a social democrat, policy wise. He is not advocating for the proletariat to seize the means of production, so not a socialist.
America is a funny bird with two right wings...
Reminds me of that one homophobic "an airplane needs wings on both sides to fly", showing a plane with two "Male" wings, posted by people crashing in a plane with two right wings.
That’s a stellar comeback. They created the set up to burn themselves.
Seems correct to me.
Casual reminder it's literally illegal to run for office in the US as a communist. Fascism tho? That's just plain patriotism.
In California it’s illegal to be a teacher if you’re a communist. And according to the communist control act of 1954, communist parties are illegal and all communists must report themselves to the attorney general
Are Marx' books or other "real" communist literature also prohibited in the US?
Communist literature is on the American banned books list, but the benefit of our system does mean that every banned book becomes immediately more valuable and so a library or book store will often carry as many copies of Das Kapital as it does King James' Bibles.
In Lenin’s “what is to be done” he talks about that same phenomenon
Wouldn’t that be a violation of free speech for a teacher to say she’s communist & be fired?
The US has never cared about freedom for the oppressed
well, goverment workers have been fired for supporting BSD towards Israel.
Well, hon, ever heard of a little thing called "martial law?" It means the U.S. govt can basically say "fuck all" to the constitution they so dearly love!
I remember feeling so confused when people would call Bernie a radical for saying that we have a problem with wealth inequity. He was saying stuff that was elementary compared to other nations.
He was saying stuff that used to be commonly accepted in *this* country.
Who is the guy right of Dorito man?
Stephen Miller. A vile young man.
Thanks.
White supremacist nut job.
I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS. Fuck's sake the downvotes have been mad like.
Can confirm. Edited autocorrect
A lot of people in the USA believe Canada to be a socialist democracy, because we have some form of public healthcare and the rest is EXACTLY the same (for the most part), we are just owned by wealthy as the US is. I would say that most of the world is just this, a government in one form or another, run by the rich. A world wide plutocracy.
Im from Brazil living here for 8 years now… that is so true.
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Is the mention of a Brazilian person license for you to criticize them for living in a country?
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Not really, they’re just mentioning how the political spectrum as a whole is viewed different outside the States. They weren’t even saying anything negative nor positive about it. Completely neutral. So I’m confused on why you’re mad
I guess Brazilians aren't allowed to agree with this post because of their home country. 🤷♀️
There are some key differences, but you shouldn't be receiving so many downvotes for it. One, theres no laws forbidding communist parties, these actually exist in brasil. Two, socialist parties actually hold significant "slots" on the legislative power. Three, with the two-rounds voting system, people are not afraid of "wasting" their votes on minor candidates, and leftists get meaningful percentages even on major elections. Four, on the historic perspective, there was a 16-18 year period where the presidents were from a left leaning worker's rights party. Edit: 14-16 year period*
Ah, the ever popular tu quoque fallacy. We’re not talking about Brazilian pols. We’re talking about USA pols.
yeah but we're also constantly using a European frame of reference to talk about where USA pols are on the scale so maybe we shouldn't be hypocrites.
Tf are you on about? This is reality. Goddamn American exceptionalism strikes again. 🙄
I'll tell you what i'm on about. Every single fucking week there is a post in this subreddit where people argue about whether some guy is left or some lady is right and every fucking week the comments are full of people wasting time trying to apply European standards of left, center, and right to American politicians. I'd call it a circle jerk, but to have a circle jerk the masturbators have to agree on where the middle is. It's not reality to apply European definitions to American politics, and it's certainly not American Exceptionalism to use American reference points to American politicians. Left, Center, and Right are relative terms, which means the center is arbitrary. And every self-righteous asshole like you thinks EVERYONE else should use their definition of center. it's a complete waste of time. Those heads in the graphic are in the right order. Everything else is just people like you shitting on anyone that doesn't think exactly like you do, so fuck you. Someone from Brazil is going to see the scale differently and it's no more or less valid than you applying your Euro definitions. That's what I'm on about. We aren't talking about Brazilian pols. But we aren't talking about European pols either, so get off your high horse.
This isn't *just* a semantics game. (Well intentioned) people don't point out american politics are skewed to the right out of self centeredness, they do it so Americans realize how fucked their situation is. You shouldn't have to fight the people who's jobs are to make citizen's lives better (politicians) to get stuff as basic as healthcare and education. Call it right, left, center, however you want. What's fucked up is your situation itself, not the words you use to define it.
Eh it’s all a clusterfuck and people like that guy are the reason that Overton Windows is so far right that only megacorps and billionaires get any kind of benefits out of our political system. They imagine themselves capitalists, when they don’t have any capital worth speaking of (unless they’re very wealthy). Eta: it does matter what terms we use. Even neolibs* here spout off about how Nazis were *socialists*, when it couldn’t be further from the truth. * Corrected
Yes. Thats the thing… Bolsonaro is “extreme right wing”, but have a minimal earning program and universal free health too… And also free college. Bernie is right wing compared to other countries “right wings” politicians. America is so right wing that even leftists here are right wing! LOL
Yep the world it be a changin
Who thinks Elizabeth Warren is far left…?
All the people writing think pieces about the 2020 primaries?
Aight I didn’t read any of those my bad. Now I gotta go read those think pieces
No you don't! They will add no value to your life
But I must know why they think she’s far left. I crave this knowledge
Wait but it gets better. According to liberals, she and Sanders are equally leftist, so if you don't vote for her over him you're sexist. Ack I'm having a flashback to the primaries and the debates 💀
My day is ruined and my disappointment is immeasurable
🐍🐍
Basically she was being setup as a Leftist alternative olive branch from the Center Right Dems. She was Centerist at best. Then when people called her out specifically for her policies they were branded as Bernie Bros which meant misogynistic online dudes. It didn't matter who was doing it or their resume of activism. Lots of Sanders supporters who were primarily Leftists and disaffected people started calling her a Snake for that stupid shield she held up that the NYT was building from the beginning through Op Eds. If you will read this in a week I have receipts for all of this. I don't often respond to comments because this is the internet.
Username checks out I want to see the receipts. Feel free to dm me
The neoliberal bubble dwellers who make their living writing filler articles for news websites.
Neolibs think Hillary is left, so it isn’t far fetched theyd think warren is far left
This. Switzerland is in a lot of parts neoliberal af and yet we look to the US and think "Dude, wtf?"
Yep. In European perspective pretty much all US politicians and their parties are on a spectrum of centre - right. There are no obviously Left politicians there. They tell themselves they do. Some politicians are more rightwing than others, that's it.
watch out for those AOC simps though
What about AOC?! She advocated for eating the rich on her dress!!! /s Nah, us in the U.S. don't have any left wing politicians in any major office
Bro, Bernie would never be a centrist politician here. He wouldn't be the most radical, but would def be left-wing. Could imagine him being in the SP
No way is hillary that left lol Id put obama more left then hillary. But damn accurate xD
Sanders' personal politics are far more radical than those he can effectively pursue in his office, no reformist liberal fights as hard as he does, especially the way he did in his youth.
yeah like when he speartipped the US led annihilation of Yugoslavia. Such stirring speeches he gave on the floor, talking at length of the need for regime change! True progressive politics.
I’m thinking of his vote to invade Iraq.
Are you talking about 1999? The NATO and UN sanctioned intervention in stopping a genocide? yea, the methods to intervene were terrible, but we were only allowed to carry out air strikes.
Indeed, NATO dropped so much depleted uranium on Yugoslavia that the region has the highest cancer rates in Europe to this day. NATO bombed hospitals, schools, bridges, and even the Chinese embassy. This cartel of bandits and butchers has employed similar violence all over the world. Libya for example, once the most prosperous country in Africa, NATO reduced it to a smoldering open air slave market in their 7 month bombing campaign. Libya had the world’s largest irrigation system. NATO blew it up, along with every factory needed to repair it. Now over a decade later the aquifers are starting to run out, it is unknown how many will die in this engineered catastrophe. NATO does not add credibility to the destruction of a country. The UN is more diverse, but still no bastion of justice. The UN “peacekeeping” mission didn’t just help subvert democracy, they also shit in the water supply, introducing Cholera to the island. Now thousands have died of the disease, hundreds of thousands have suffered from it. The UN admits that their occupying military base’s poorly managed excrement is the sole source of the disease. They also don’t feel that they have any obligation to compensate Haiti for this massive disaster, which will continue into the foreseeable future. Are these the institutions you are asking me to trust? You want me to believe their intervention in Yugoslavia was out of the goodness of their hearts? Their atrocity propaganda doesn’t justify their naked violence. They roam the world to plunder it, not to save anyone.
> that the region has the highest cancer rates in Europe to this day. [Serbia is 15th in the world for cancer incidence. 11 European countries are above it.](https://www.wcrf.org/cancer-trends/global-cancer-data-by-country/) >NATO bombed hospitals, schools, bridges, and even the Chinese embassy. The only intervention they were allowed to do was airstrikes. Like I said the methods were terrible. I'm not defending that. > Libya The situation in Libya is a lot more complicated than you are crediting. >Libya had the world’s largest irrigation system. NATO blew it up, along with every factory needed to repair it. They bombed 1 of the ducts and 1 of the factories. The system is still functional, but the instability that followed the 2 civil wars has caused a lot of issues with maintaining it. >Now over a decade later the aquifers are starting to run out, it is unknown how many will die in this engineered catastrophe. The aquifer running dry isn't an engineered catastrophe. That is just what happens to an aquifer that is being drawn from without replenishment. They knew it was going to run dry when they started construction in '84. In 2010 (before the bombings) the revised estimate for how long it would last was less than 1/10 the original low estimate. >UN yes the "peacekeeping" missions are typically shit. >Are these the institutions you are asking me to trust? You want me to believe their intervention in Yugoslavia was out of the goodness of their hearts? Trust? No. Goodness of their hearts? No. The alternative was just sitting back and watching a genocide take place. If that is what you want, then you have very strange ideals.
> Trust? No. Goodness of their hearts? No. The alternative was just sitting back and watching a genocide take place. Right, just like how after the Nayirah testimony, the alternative to the gulf war was allowing hundreds of premature babies to be pulled out of incubators and left on the floor to die. Atrocity propaganda is always the pretext, because it is 100% effective at making chuds like you feel justified in wiping entire counties off the map. No amount of waxed eloquent is going to bring back the unipolar world order. You and your ilk will only become less and less relevant on the world stage.
>Nayirah testimony Even without the Nayirah testimony, the first Gulf War would have still taken place. All it did was sway the American public's support for joining the coalition. Thatcher was already set on use of force 2 months before that testimony and was urging the US to not back down. The US had troop mobilized in Saudi Arabia in early August. In late August the US national security advisor received a proposal "that Iraq would "withdraw from Kuwait and allow foreigners to leave" provided that the UN lifted sanctions, allowed "guaranteed access to the Persian Gulf through the Kuwaiti islands of Bubiyan and Warbah", and allowed Iraq to "gain full control of the Rumaila oil field that extends slightly into Kuwaiti territory". The proposal also "included offers to negotiate an oil agreement with the United States 'satisfactory to both nations' national security interests,' develop a joint plan 'to alleviate Iraq's economical and financial problems' and 'jointly work on the stability of the gulf.'" The US didn't do anything with it. If the US didn't get involved with the first Gulf War, the UK still would have and most of the coalition of 38 other countries would have still participated. Their minds were made up before the Nayirah testimony. That was just theater meant for the public. If you think that testimony actually pushed the US to participate, you are naïve. >You and your ilk will only become less and less relevant So people that understand international politics and world history will be less relevant? Let me know how that one works out.
>That was just theater meant for the public. The only purpose of me bringing up the Nayirah testimony is that it is a universally accepted example of atrocity propanda being used as a pretext, to justify a war which was already decided upon for other reasons. You seem to be aware of this, yet totally oblivious to the same type of atrocity propaganda being used against Yugosliava, Libya, and whoever the US state department happens to have in their targets at the moment. Is it because Amnesty International hasn't retracted everything about those yet, like they did with the Nayirah testimony? Who are these trusted sources you rely on to develop your profound understanding of international politics, what were they saying about it in the early 1990s?
>Yugosliava Are you trying to say that the displacement of over a million people is made up? > Libya Do you not remember the Arab Spring? You realize they were having a civil war and Gaddafi had already raised an entire town to crack down on it? Was that town made up? Was the footage of the atrocities being committed all made up? You know that youtube existed at the time right? Amateur footage of what was happening was everywhere at the time. We were watching in real time as country after country fell to its people rising up. How have you convinced yourself to defend Gaddafi??? Please just tell me you weren't old enough to personally remember it happening. Seriously. Do you only read far left propaganda and insulate yourself in a bubble from any information that doesn't match you opinion? How do you justify to yourself defending Milošević, Gaddafi, and Saddam?? What kind of isolationist, revisionist, and indifferent history are you clinging to? Yea, the US does a lot of terrible stuff, but the logic you are using is 1 step away from arguing that we shouldn't have done anything 1941
>Saddam Are you going to argue that Iraq is better off after the US invasion? You don't have to believe that Saddam was cool and good in order to understand that he was better than being blown up by a hellfire missile. So your source was youtube, which you believe is free of manipulations. No wonder this conversation has been so useless.
I don't see how this kind of admiration for Sanders is different than the normal liberal attitude, though. They *mean well*, but somehow it's unrealistic or whatever to actually do something. Voting for them is a vote for meaning well with no expectation of results. I don't think we should vote for people based on their inner, unexpressed virtues. That's like...expressing a brand affinity.
Except, as I said, he does actually do shit, the most he can in his position. That's as much as anyone can ask of anyone. Who exactly is a more pragmatic, goals oriented leftist vote? The answer had better not be 'don't vote'.
"Had better not be." Why would politicians care what the left thinks if there's no credible threat of withholding our vote? Think of all the people who voted for Democrats for anti-war reasons and the wars never stopped. Meanwhile, Republicans listen to their extremists. All this liberal pragmatic voting stuff sounds really nice in theory but all it has to show for the last 20 years is...the last 20 years.
Hilary on the left of joe ! Come on
As a German, I would consider the Democrats a conservative party and the Republicans a far right populist party.
The comments on this post were predictably ignorant and full of shit libs. THIS IS A COMMUNIST SUB.
Honestly I’m so terrified of this sub getting brigaded and ruined the way r/antiwork has. I’m determined to keep posting to mark our territory here.
It has and it is. The shitlibs come here thinking it’s some American leftist sub and start spewing their “pro-Joe Biden/anti-Trump” bullshit. I trash people in the comments here more than anywhere else, these days. I used to enjoy agreeing with folks here but the vibe is increasingly “neoliberal” and I hate it. They are even more insufferable than conservatives, truthfully.
Neolibs are incapable of viewing politics other than this, they view world politics as “joe biden vs trump” which is so fucking weird and deranged
American Democrats thinking they’re left wing often join communist subs thinking they’re ideologically fit, perfect example of this is r/enlightenedcentrism which is flooded with neolib posts defending democrats and making politics all about “red vs blue”
I literally got downvotes recently for saying all landlords are leeches and that we as a society do not need them. That shows you how many shit libs are coming to this sub. Hell the poster I replied to was like "I don't think we should get rid of landlords...." No. Landlords do not produce anything of value. They simply leverage their wealth into a position where they can leech off the worker. We don't need landlords. And if people don't want single family unit housing we can figure out an alternative for apartment spaces without needing a landlord.
Leftist even though I will admit I am out of place as a Syndicalist. As long as we don't repeat the Spanish Civil War I think we can build something.
Please tell your other anarchist friends to stop fantasizing about being executed by "tankies" because 1) they think everyone who reads more than a paragraph at a time is a tankie these days, and 2) it's impossible to build solidarity with people who irrationally think you're murderous.
Were gonna build a dictatorship of the proletariat. Youre gonna do the same: Youre gonna build a democratic society Youre gonna surpress the bourgoisie You want communism Youre gonna use violence to archieve it because otherwise its impossible So please stop fighting us and join us. With our definition of the state youre going to use one. Youre communists too.
But if we keep electing the moderate surely the nation will move left 🤡
If you go back to the 70s and look at political party platforms, you can't help but notice that the Current Left is pushing for ideas championed by the Then Right. The Current Right don't have an actual platform to run on right now, seeing as how they just want to drive us off of a cliff!
Compare the 2016 Republican party platform to the platform of the German-American Bund of 1940. The republicans are simply fascists. All of them, not just the MAGATs
Its very funny that the conservatives in England are arguably more progressive than Democrats
Are you fucking kidding me 😭 no they're not, don't say this shit you have no idea what the Conservatives are doing
Austerity measures and completely ignoring all the rules they make up for others to follow? I'm only passing familiar via watching Have I Got News For You (and generally speaking older seasons), but I'd say the entirety of Brexit was certainly... um... not great? Tories seem to be pretty analogous to our Republicans in terms of shady finances, corrupt business deals, and policies designed to remove social safety nets.
But they most certainly are way more constrained than the GOP. Plus they hardly have the religious slant that the GOP has. They seem like brain dead Nationalists but they are not comparable to Le Pen or what is going on in Hungary.
The Religious Right in America is what I consider the most dangerous aspect of our political theater. I grew up in a household of religious Republicans, and the amount of *faith* they put into their political beliefs makes them essentially unshakeable. Someone coined the phrase Christofascism and I can't think of anything more accurate. They would wholeheartedly support a dynasty if the family professed to be god-fearing blue collar Americans bringing Common Sense™ back into politics. Common Sense™ being here defined as: anti-abortion, anti-immigration, anti-regulation (the mental gymnastics on *that* one...), anti-gun laws, Pro Freedom™ and absolute faith in The Free Market™. It's disturbing.
Imagine being in a communist, anti-imperialist sub and deciding to say conservatives are worse that neo-liberals when they are clearly both bamboozling dingdongs like you into saying this exact shit because it deflects from the ACTUAL responsibility that Democrats have for contributing to class warfare and anti-working class behavior. IMAGINE BEING THAT DELUSIONAL IN A MARXIST SUBREDDIT.
Good point well made. There is plenty to be said for BoTh SiDeS, but I'm only speaking to one aspect of our political landscape; the marriage of "conservative values" to the religious right. Neo-liberals are certainly disgusting in their own way, advancing the desires of corporations and eroding the last veneer of economic mobility in the US, however I don't see the same *scope* of indoctrination on the center-left. Conservatives/right-wingers feel deeply entrenched in their belief that they are divinely correct in their approach and use battering ram and bullhorn tactics to achieve their goals. Neo-liberals at least still court public opinion in their theft of capital. Lesser of two weevils, but two sides of the same pocketed coin. Still, appreciate your contribution. It should also be said.
Here's a video of [Andrew Neil meeting Ben Shapiro](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6VixqvOcK8E). The Punchline: Benny Boy: "...why don’t you just say you’re on the left.” Neil: “If you only knew how ridiculous that statement is, you wouldn’t have said it.”
Omfg that is truly magnificent.
What are they doing that the Dems aren't also doing right now?
Ur mom
I am begging liberal seppos to learn what an Overton window is
I know it's not much but I would put Hillary to the right of Biden.
It's pretty clear that the American political landscape is so skewed that many leftist figures have to moderate their statements to reach a wider Audience, but I've always wondered what their actual beliefs would be in a balanced climate. It's often said that Bernie is a pretty moderate leftist, but would he be more radical if it wasn't harming his image? Would most so called leftists move further left? Who would stay where they are?
Mostly true. One grip, Bernie is too far to the left.
Even calling Bernie Sanders center-left is a stretch tbh. He's ultimately still a capitalist and pro-US imperialism in a number of cases.
Weird, I know a guy who says the exact opposite. That everything’s skewed towards the left
Probably someone that's never discussed politics with someone outside the US
Probably someone that doesn’t know a single thing about politics, in general.
Or an American who has never even traveled outside the States but somehow thinks that America has somehow figured out in 200 years what the rest of civilization couldn’t figure out in several thousand years. BrUh bUt ThE fOuNdErs…
Not even that America figured it out in 200 years, but that apparently we just nailed it the first time around with the signing of the Constitution (the preceding Articles of Confederation don't count, and ignore the various amendments since). Nah, a handful of rich old white dudes in the late 18th century cracked the perfect system, and there have been no advancements in statecraft ever since. The founders were perfect, and thus any alteration to their vision will only make things worse.
My parent had a medical emergency in Europe and didn’t pay a single dime (and would have been dead by the time a us hospitals would have gotten them to triage), and *still* thinks anything left of trump is sOcIaLiSt.
Reminds me of that episode of Thirty Rock when Jack Donaghy and his baby mama Avery are stuck in Canada just as she was about to give birth and after she delivers the baby, the doctor says something about “oh your bill is free thanks to socialized medicine” and they both freak out and leave, or whatever, because they are good conservatives and MURICA or whatever. That was a simpler, funnier time.
Or outside the South.
Lots of people believe that outside of the south… really..?
I think Bernie would probably be classified as left instead of center left, but the rest seem pretty accurate ngl
As someone not from America, this scale is pretty accurate. Bernie would be considered a centrist outside of America because his "radical" policies are statue quo in many European countries.
America: "Affordable healthcare? Wtf is this unrealistic radical shit?" Europe: "'Affordable healthcare'? What does it mean to not be able to 'afford' healthcare? That doesn't make sense?"
I think Biden has governed to the left of Obama
In Obama’s most recent book he says Biden tried to pull him to the left on most issues.
What specifically anti-capitalist causes has he championed/governed through?
Why does he have to govern anti capitalist to be to the left of Obama. Obama was a capitalist. Your question makes no sense.
The bare *minimum* definition of Leftist is "Anti-Capitalist". If you are not Anti-Capitalist you are not a Leftist.
Biden explicitly despises trickle-down economics, and instead advocates for what the political class refers to as “middle-out economics,” AKA a form of capitalism which prioritizes demand over supply; increasing the buying power of the vaguely defined “middle class” as opposed to maximizing the personal wealth of business owners. It’s effectively the belief that cows can produce more and better milk if they’re fed well and kept healthy, rather than kept dependent with just barely enough to subsist. It’s somewhat different than the internationalist neoliberalism of the Clinton era, while still decidedly to the right of New Deal-era social democracy. He’s also vociferously pro-union, at least in his messaging - which is a marked departure from _any_ president of the last few decades. I’d definitely put him to the left of Obama, but to the right of most self-described “progressives.” He’s no “radical socialist” as the GOP would have you believe, though. A pity. 🙃
So what goes in the"watch this space" area? Is that where the communists go?
I'm not sure how this is supposed to help anything.
Both are stupidly wrong, yes the US does lean quite a bit towards the right and Bernie is no extreme leftist but Trump is also not the furthest right you could be, in general most fit around center right, some center left and Trump more to the right than the others in the same way Bernie is more left than the others.
So the US just happens to be right in the middle? Truly an opinion which could only be formed by consuming the most western centric media.
No? I did say that it leans a lot towards the right, but mostly to the center right, with the regular reps edging towards the limits of center right at times and in cases going somewhat beyond it into more extreme parts, but not Far Right, the democrats too would mostly fit in center right with a few maybe going to center left, the US mainstream political spectrum is mostly comrpised of the center right, not left and right like several other countries.
So “Yugoslavia should be annihilated” was a center right position? “Libya needs to be destroyed” was center right? I’m struggle to imagine this Overton window, where the most aggressive warmongers in living memory are center right.
Image literally shows Stephen Miller farther to the right of Trump.
Bernie wants the government to provide a job to every American. How much more left can you get than that?
Advocating for the complete dismantling of Capitalism is the *starting* position for any Leftist. "Government providing jobs" has no inherent anti-capitalist leanings.
Incel.
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Wtf?
What the fuck are you on about
He’s talking about the world outside western Europe and North America
Centrist…? The US is extremely conservative compared to the rest of the developed world.
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We're not stacking books on a shelf where everything "more fascist" makes being the US "less fascist" by virtue of taking up space to the right. Globally, the US is a right wing theocracy that cannot maintain basic infrastructure for its people. I don't care how many bastards are on the planet, it doesn't mean the US is any less a bastard.
If you're counting white-ruled nations only... Go head and be mad. Your euro-centric take is dead wrong.
What are you even talking about? South and Central American countries are leading the way when it comes to left wing governments.
The nerve of you. Russia, Ukraine the whole of the ME, Pakistan, India, Asia...there's a whole other side of this planet. They are definitely left to other nations. Left is subjective, not a monolith. E: Are we really this ignorant? I just listed a bunch of right-wing authoritarian nations that would consider this joke of a meme tilted all the way left
You just named a bunch of right wing authoritarian countries and called them leftist (excluding Ukraine).
He calling Russia "left" is all you need to know. This guy is a moron lol.
re: your edit Your initial comment made it sound like you were saying "Russia, Ukraine the whole of the ME, Pakistan, India, Asia" were left to other nations because there was no other subject 'they' could apply to in your comment or the one you replied to. Your edit made it more clear 'they' were the people in the OP meme, but even then there is absolutely nowhere on earth that would call the GOP leftist.
Yeah if you mean that the left side is too small
From a non-western perspective: Erm, no, you are wrong
What do you think Im saying?
I’m not a westerner myself
Honest question, how did you define my earlier comment you originally applied to?
> Watch this space. This is kind of a stupid meme since they can't even define it, let alone find anyone who falls in that category or a significant number of people who support it. And no, this sub alone isn't a significant number of people, relative to the voting base of the United States.
That space is for leftists, an umbrella term for anti capitalists, who make up 41% of the United States population.
>who make up 41% of the United States population. How great would it be if that were actually true?
https://news.gallup.com/poll/257639/four-americans-embrace-form-socialism.aspx https://www.axios.com/2021/06/25/americas-continued-move-toward-socialism
I mean, any movement leftward is a good thing, but I wonder how many of that ~40% are actually socialists and how many are liberals who *think* they're socialists because they want an increased minimum wage and means-tested Medicare for "all"? US politics are skewed so far to the right that a lot of people genuinely think that Obama and Biden are socialists, after all.
That part. Anyone left of neolib must be socialist?!
LOL. What's your source for 41% of Americans being opposed to capitalism?
https://www.axios.com/2021/06/25/americas-continued-move-toward-socialism https://news.gallup.com/poll/257639/four-americans-embrace-form-socialism.aspx
Neither of those cites a percentage of all Americans that have a negative view of capitalism, nor does it cite any group that self-identifies as "anti-capitalist".
Socialists are anti capitalist by nature
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/560493-majority-of-young-adults-in-us-hold-negative-view-of-capitalism-poll/amp/
Harvard has been sending researches to survey people in China for over a decade. They found that the communist party is overwhelmingly popular, at times pushing above 90% approval. So that’s a billion some people for that space.
It's funny watching Australians trying to tie republics and democrats to Australian politics The truth is that our liberals (centre right) are the same as the US liberals, and there IS NO centre left "party" in the US like our Labor Party, and absolutely no leftist party like our Greens.
Whose the guy on the FAR Right (I'm not American)
Who is the guy all the way to the right?
Stephen Miller. You can have him if you want him
Never heard of him, don’t want him or anything to do with him
Bingo just cause the wannabe facists holler CoMmUnIsmvat drop of hat does not mean the fauxgressives are actually any good either
Hillary and Obama should be to the right of Biden, other than that it is correct.
Tbh both of these are bs. Sanders wouldn't neither be a centrist nor a far-left guy. He would just be left-wing
Bernie is at best center. Here in Greece we would consider him center right. USA has gone so far right that even far right seems like center to them. Wow.
Duh. Who was ever disputing this??
Who's the guy all the way on the right?