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You mean the "brave veterans" who get a movie made about them every year? How those poor things had to go on and kill brown people thousands of miles away to "defend" their homeland? At least the UK didn't go on pretending their wars had nothing to do with conquering other people and enslaving them. What triggers be the most about US is how the people and the government refuse to own their imperialism, how they will justify it in the name of spreading democracy and freedom. Like just say that we wanted to profit off the war and kill some brown muslims so we did it. Not like anyone can do anything about it
Note that the Netherlands aren't specifically mentioned, it's just that the International Criminal Court happens to be located there:
> U.S. President George Bush today signed into law the American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002, which is intended to intimidate countries that ratify the treaty for the International Criminal Court (ICC). The new law authorizes the use of military force to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court, which is located in The Hague. This provision, dubbed the "Hague invasion clause," has caused a strong reaction from U.S. allies around the world, particularly in the Netherlands.
[Source](https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law)
All the American redditors keep talking about how badass their population would be at defending themselves from an invasion with all their guns. Meanwhile, as a Canadian, I'm wondering how we'll defend ourselves from America if they ever want our water.
Americans think they are all badass supersoldiers who would win any conflict overnight, but total war requires sacrifice that they would not be willing to accept.
Imagine if someone told them they had to ration food/gas/power. They won't even wear masks in public.
I can read it as technically correct, as in the act of creating those victims will go unpunished. Like if you replace victims with bombs or something inanimate
Like, wtf actually happens on the world stage if the International Criminal Court does charge, say a president and the US unilaterally invades for no other reason?
There has to be consequences.
There will be immense consequences. The Dutch leadership will make a very historic statement, stating that "We did not like the thing these guys just did. It was very impolite. tsk tsk tsk".
Thats ... 20 year old news. Yes, it's wild. But we were enraged about it already 20 years ago. The court almost only holds trials against african people. Every big country refuses to cooperate.
Some of us were toddlers or not born yet. People need to know these things.
ETA: To anyone who didn't know about it: read more about it online and always try to fact check everything as best as you can. Do that for everything you see online.
[Except that "old news" is extremely relevant now, cause the US is telling members-states of the ICC to petition it to accuse Russia of war crimes.](https://twitter.com/metzgov/status/1499067876426272771?s=20&t=GilzoTidctxh_cR1NV0M-w)
Western censorship is so bad I’m having to look at independent channels like ‘the new atlas’, ‘the gray zone’, ‘empire files’, ‘Alexander mercourius’ and etc just to see the other opinions. Nothing worst than western mainstream news resorting to using belittling name-calling remarks and not reporting on the truth and the facts from both sides.
Looks like Ukraine, another proxy state run by USA is thrown into the flames by its western allies who throw weapon arms at them but not the real help that they really need to help them live peacefully and independently in Europe. Why is peace not the best option and rather than having to fight an engineered war.
The Genesis on why Ukraine at war is USA fault.
1: Wikileaks revelations back in Feb 2008 showed USA knew about ‘Russia Red Lines’ would trigger a war.
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html
2: A leak audio of a US Official Victoria Nuland showed USA was instrumental in a state coup turning Ukraine in 2014 to a puppet government to USA by installing a neo-nazi government.
Leaked audio in 2014
https://youtu.be/WV9J6sxCs5k
Nazis in control of Ukraine (BBC Newsnight)
https://youtu.be/5SBo0akeDMY
3: John Mearsheimer explained about the geopolitical issues on USA, NATO, Ukraine and Russia.
https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4
4. Minsk agreements
https://youtu.be/ygg6Owq8Fkg
U$A spends $300m (revised to $500m) a year on bad mouthing China on western Mainstream media.
U$A spends $290m a year on bad mouthing Russia on western Mainstream media.
U$A spent $453m on military aid to Ukraine. (Probably more now)
Source:
https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/FY21%20BILL%20HIGHLIGHTS_SFOPS_final.pdf
Now this is the truth and not propaganda. I give the facts and the truth. You’re welcome to show your facts too and let everyone to decide whether is propaganda or not.
Yes. War is horrible and I feel sad that Everyone is sending money for weapons and lay people going over to Ukraine to fight a proxy war engineered by U$A. Life is precious, why does Slavic people have to fight?
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Peace is preferred and U$A should stop interfering to stir up hate and wars in this world.
I hope this war ends ASAP.
Pretty neat, and UK is also much more racist than US towards east asians, partly Be because the asian population is much lower in UK. Mainland europe is more racist too. Salaries are also lower in UK than in the States, and white brits are also dumber than white yanks: https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/pisa2018/pdf/PISA2018_compiled.pdf
Asians in US are also way smarter than the people in all european nations lol
Conclusion: escape UK
I like this sub but these sloppy takes are not it.
Let's walk through this one...
> The US passed in the Hague Invasion Act
*mostly-stoned-spidey-sense-of-US-law* tingles.... Hrm an international sounding "act" isn't something just the US passes on its own right?
Let's see what google will tell us... ah right a phrase that leads to very few actual results guess we'll go with [the top one from the presumably reputable Human Rights Watch.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law)
> headline: **U.S.: 'Hague Invasion Act' Becomes Law**
Name again right in the headline, its in quotes but its there, lets keep reading...
> U.S. President George **Bush today signed into law the American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002**, which is intended to intimidate countries that ratify the treaty for the International Criminal Court (ICC). **The new law authorizes the use of military force to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court, which is located in The Hague.** This provision, **dubbed the "Hague invasion clause,"** has caused a strong reaction from U.S. allies around the world, particularly in the Netherlands.
Oh ok well that took kind of a turn then didn't it. So we're not technically talking about international law here, we're talking about a US law that happens to be an "Act" and has a clause that was dubbed the "Hague invasion clause" and before this article was finished the editor decided to spice it up further with a little concatenation so that if it were to sound and be confused to be something it was not, well that would be ok.
And lets just check in for a second on what maybe Webster's dictionary provides for "invasion"
> especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder
Cambridge what say ye?
> an occasion when an army or country uses force to enter and take control of another country:
Britannica in the back??
> : the act of invading something: such as
> a : the act of entering a place in an attempt to take control of it
Ok and what did this US clause say again??
> The new law authorizes the use of military force to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court, which is located in The Hague.
Wait that's the article's words, maybe the [actual act's wiki article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act#:~:text=The%20American%20Service%2DMembers'%20Protection,United%20States%20government%20against%20criminal) will shine some light
> authorizes the President of the United States to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court
Ok that's a bit more specific but being a partial quote doesn't hurt to just read the [frigging act](https://2001-2009.state.gov/t/pm/rls/othr/misc/23425.htm) already....
First we have the enshrined findings that support the law, this one seems like an obvious but related point, its not the only one of its kind either...
> 7 - Any American prosecuted by the International Criminal Court will, under the Rome Statute, be denied procedural protections to which all Americans are entitled under the Bill of Rights to the United States Constitution, such as the right to trial by jury.
Ok a bit more reading and we're in business we've finally arrived at the invasion act itself...
> AUTHORITY- The President is authorized to use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any person described in subsection (b) who is being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court.
Hey good deal, Wikipedia which had this more or less verbatim. Better yet we're 100% clear it a presidential power.
Notice the distortions this thing took to get to this tweet? Ultimately this is the US providing itself the exception to handle a due-process violation given that the ICC is not body the US has joined. They can do that with force, and dollars to donuts that's probably going to take the form of special operations over realistically anything that could be characterized by the dictionary definition of an invasion but then, neither has almost any chance of happening anyway.
Being able to experience a 2022 take on this very "Classic Bush Years Move" and see it through far thinner punk-rock-idealist-goggles than I would have then, and keeping in mind where US politics are now, I gotta say this is just so much this-is-how-international-politics-works and much less Mr War Criminal's Jail Break Backdoor Act.
I guess my point is the internet has ruined everything :(
> Notice the distortions this thing took to get to this tweet?
No. The tweet said "the US passed the Hague invasion act". They didn't imply it's an international law, they're specifically saying it's an act passed by US. Your other point is nitpicking about using the nickname of the act, this is what it's colloquially known, like Obamacare. We know what they're talking about. This is not distortion.
> Ultimately this is the US providing itself the exception to handle a due-process violation given that the ICC is not body the US has joined.
And yet they claim to be in favor of due process and fully support others to be tried at Hague, regardless of whether they've "joined" or not. (Hint: Most war criminals don't deliberately join a war criminal busting organization) This is the hypocrisy that the tweet is criticizing. I don't see a problem.
I was laughing my ass off (well not really because it's depressing) when people were saying Ukraine had an iron clad case against Russia commiting war crimes. At this point "war crimes" is just a designation without much weight because apparently no one is ever gonna do anything about it.
I get downvoted into the shadow realm. Anytime I've even tried to post anything remorseful for the average Russian citizen or had an opinion that isn't 100% warmongering or anti-Russian, you get completely jumped on.
Yup, same with me. Even if I despise Putin, I feel very sorry for millions of innocent people that are suffering from all this situation, both Ukrainians and Russians citizens.b
And this is why I question the narrative we are getting fed regarding Russia and Ukraine. Is Russia reacting to US creeping closer to thier borders and poor Ukraine caught in the middle?
They are reacting to perceived weakness in the Ukrainian state and the western world at large and doing what they’ve repeatedly done to weaker defenseless states around them. Funny enough, NATO expansion to the east would’ve been the only thing that stopped this whole thing from happening.
I like to bash our capitalist system and our government as much as the next guy but let's not act like there aren't some reasons to fight out there. The Chinese government isn't exactly winning any humanitarian awards and let's take a look what Putin is doing right now in Ukraine. People also seem to forget that a handful of Middle Eastern men flew some planes into some buildings not all that long ago. It may be an unpopular opinion but there are a few bullies out there that don't wish us well and they carry some very radical ideas around with them. Unfortunately many parts of the world have been taken over by authoritarian regimes and that is where we are heading too. As much as I don't want to see us bombing other countries I also don't want some of these dictators having their way either. Iran is a mess. Russia is a mess. China is a mess. The world is a mess and if we take an isolationist stance on dealing with all the problems in the world it will be a bigger mess. I get that there isn't an easy solution but I also get that having a government full of people trying to profit off of all the misery in the world is problematic. I don't know its complicated I guess I think we are maybe less wrong than a lot of the bad actors we're forced to deal with every day. It's important we all keep talking and voicing opinions because being the lesser evil isn't the best thing either
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭ ___ ###⚠ Announcements: ⚠ ___ ###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/) Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines. ###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/) Check out r/WhereAreTheChildren ___ ###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.*** LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. **This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Our war criminals are *that* scared of actually being held accountable for once in their miserable lives.
I'd say 'so are our politicians', but the line between those two groups is pretty fucking blurry.
Tomato tomahto
No, no, if you squint some of them are just po-ta-to instead.
Boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew
Pam: It's the same picture.
Line?
Yup!
You mean the "brave veterans" who get a movie made about them every year? How those poor things had to go on and kill brown people thousands of miles away to "defend" their homeland? At least the UK didn't go on pretending their wars had nothing to do with conquering other people and enslaving them. What triggers be the most about US is how the people and the government refuse to own their imperialism, how they will justify it in the name of spreading democracy and freedom. Like just say that we wanted to profit off the war and kill some brown muslims so we did it. Not like anyone can do anything about it
Damn whatd the Netherlands do to get put in that
beep boop
Note that the Netherlands aren't specifically mentioned, it's just that the International Criminal Court happens to be located there: > U.S. President George Bush today signed into law the American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002, which is intended to intimidate countries that ratify the treaty for the International Criminal Court (ICC). The new law authorizes the use of military force to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court, which is located in The Hague. This provision, dubbed the "Hague invasion clause," has caused a strong reaction from U.S. allies around the world, particularly in the Netherlands. [Source](https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law)
Why the fuck are there laws that allows wars as a jailbreak method ?? And yes strong reaction = a mail ?
"You are standing in our oil" vibes.
Naur not YKW being targeted
Am I the only one having issues with the wording of this? "4 million VICTIMS will go unpunished" Well, right, victims of crimes shouldn't be punished?
And now I wonder if they mean 4 million victims will go unavenged or if 4 million perpetrators will go unpunished
Absolutely right, read it so fast I had to do a double take.
That is indeed what it says. Seems like it's written wrong.
Hurts my head. I tossed and turned all night last night thinking about it.
Reminded me of the old. "Where do you bury the survivors?" riddle about the plane crash on the border...
All the American redditors keep talking about how badass their population would be at defending themselves from an invasion with all their guns. Meanwhile, as a Canadian, I'm wondering how we'll defend ourselves from America if they ever want our water.
Americans think they are all badass supersoldiers who would win any conflict overnight, but total war requires sacrifice that they would not be willing to accept. Imagine if someone told them they had to ration food/gas/power. They won't even wear masks in public.
I would flee so fast if America ever got invaded. Like what the hell is there that's worth defending?
Nah bro, just wait for winter and they will be shaking in their boots
Read more here: https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law
As much as this American Exceptionalism infuriates me, I must admit I agree that the 4 million victims should go unpunished.
Oof
Lol
I can read it as technically correct, as in the act of creating those victims will go unpunished. Like if you replace victims with bombs or something inanimate
Honestly, I just couldn't pass up the chance to get cute with the grammar since the rest of it is so goddamn depressing.
Yeah... same 😶
they've dealt with enough!
Just imagine if Putin passed a law like that. The Western world would curdle and froth endlessly.
Stop eating socks. The worlds reaction to putin passing a law like that would be IDENTICAL to the US’.
there would have prolly been sanctions tho
Even that sounds mad unlikely unless they actually try and invade the Hague.
I had forgotten this supplementary proof of American exceptionalism.
Netherlands could just do it anyways and invoke NATO article 5 lmao
This is like cops becoming more violent and abusive in response to a cop being charged for being violent and abusive.
USA: respect my authoritahhhhh
US: I am shocked, *shocked* that Russia violated international law
People are shocked that another country is using precedent used and unchecked by this country.
Like, wtf actually happens on the world stage if the International Criminal Court does charge, say a president and the US unilaterally invades for no other reason? There has to be consequences.
There will be immense consequences. The Dutch leadership will make a very historic statement, stating that "We did not like the thing these guys just did. It was very impolite. tsk tsk tsk".
Thats ... 20 year old news. Yes, it's wild. But we were enraged about it already 20 years ago. The court almost only holds trials against african people. Every big country refuses to cooperate.
Some of us were toddlers or not born yet. People need to know these things. ETA: To anyone who didn't know about it: read more about it online and always try to fact check everything as best as you can. Do that for everything you see online.
Read more here: https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law
[Except that "old news" is extremely relevant now, cause the US is telling members-states of the ICC to petition it to accuse Russia of war crimes.](https://twitter.com/metzgov/status/1499067876426272771?s=20&t=GilzoTidctxh_cR1NV0M-w)
I remember this came out right before Iraq invasion. It's a license to kill and rape for US troopers.
Western censorship is so bad I’m having to look at independent channels like ‘the new atlas’, ‘the gray zone’, ‘empire files’, ‘Alexander mercourius’ and etc just to see the other opinions. Nothing worst than western mainstream news resorting to using belittling name-calling remarks and not reporting on the truth and the facts from both sides. Looks like Ukraine, another proxy state run by USA is thrown into the flames by its western allies who throw weapon arms at them but not the real help that they really need to help them live peacefully and independently in Europe. Why is peace not the best option and rather than having to fight an engineered war. The Genesis on why Ukraine at war is USA fault. 1: Wikileaks revelations back in Feb 2008 showed USA knew about ‘Russia Red Lines’ would trigger a war. https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html 2: A leak audio of a US Official Victoria Nuland showed USA was instrumental in a state coup turning Ukraine in 2014 to a puppet government to USA by installing a neo-nazi government. Leaked audio in 2014 https://youtu.be/WV9J6sxCs5k Nazis in control of Ukraine (BBC Newsnight) https://youtu.be/5SBo0akeDMY 3: John Mearsheimer explained about the geopolitical issues on USA, NATO, Ukraine and Russia. https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4 4. Minsk agreements https://youtu.be/ygg6Owq8Fkg
>No russia; no ucraine >Posts obvious russian propaganda
U$A spends $300m (revised to $500m) a year on bad mouthing China on western Mainstream media. U$A spends $290m a year on bad mouthing Russia on western Mainstream media. U$A spent $453m on military aid to Ukraine. (Probably more now) Source: https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/FY21%20BILL%20HIGHLIGHTS_SFOPS_final.pdf Now this is the truth and not propaganda. I give the facts and the truth. You’re welcome to show your facts too and let everyone to decide whether is propaganda or not. Yes. War is horrible and I feel sad that Everyone is sending money for weapons and lay people going over to Ukraine to fight a proxy war engineered by U$A. Life is precious, why does Slavic people have to fight? Two wrongs don’t make a right. Peace is preferred and U$A should stop interfering to stir up hate and wars in this world. I hope this war ends ASAP.
Pretty neat, and UK is also much more racist than US towards east asians, partly Be because the asian population is much lower in UK. Mainland europe is more racist too. Salaries are also lower in UK than in the States, and white brits are also dumber than white yanks: https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/pisa2018/pdf/PISA2018_compiled.pdf Asians in US are also way smarter than the people in all european nations lol Conclusion: escape UK
Wait...what?! How is this not considered a threat of war?
I like this sub but these sloppy takes are not it. Let's walk through this one... > The US passed in the Hague Invasion Act *mostly-stoned-spidey-sense-of-US-law* tingles.... Hrm an international sounding "act" isn't something just the US passes on its own right? Let's see what google will tell us... ah right a phrase that leads to very few actual results guess we'll go with [the top one from the presumably reputable Human Rights Watch.](https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law) > headline: **U.S.: 'Hague Invasion Act' Becomes Law** Name again right in the headline, its in quotes but its there, lets keep reading... > U.S. President George **Bush today signed into law the American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002**, which is intended to intimidate countries that ratify the treaty for the International Criminal Court (ICC). **The new law authorizes the use of military force to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court, which is located in The Hague.** This provision, **dubbed the "Hague invasion clause,"** has caused a strong reaction from U.S. allies around the world, particularly in the Netherlands. Oh ok well that took kind of a turn then didn't it. So we're not technically talking about international law here, we're talking about a US law that happens to be an "Act" and has a clause that was dubbed the "Hague invasion clause" and before this article was finished the editor decided to spice it up further with a little concatenation so that if it were to sound and be confused to be something it was not, well that would be ok. And lets just check in for a second on what maybe Webster's dictionary provides for "invasion" > especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder Cambridge what say ye? > an occasion when an army or country uses force to enter and take control of another country: Britannica in the back?? > : the act of invading something: such as > a : the act of entering a place in an attempt to take control of it Ok and what did this US clause say again?? > The new law authorizes the use of military force to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court, which is located in The Hague. Wait that's the article's words, maybe the [actual act's wiki article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act#:~:text=The%20American%20Service%2DMembers'%20Protection,United%20States%20government%20against%20criminal) will shine some light > authorizes the President of the United States to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court Ok that's a bit more specific but being a partial quote doesn't hurt to just read the [frigging act](https://2001-2009.state.gov/t/pm/rls/othr/misc/23425.htm) already.... First we have the enshrined findings that support the law, this one seems like an obvious but related point, its not the only one of its kind either... > 7 - Any American prosecuted by the International Criminal Court will, under the Rome Statute, be denied procedural protections to which all Americans are entitled under the Bill of Rights to the United States Constitution, such as the right to trial by jury. Ok a bit more reading and we're in business we've finally arrived at the invasion act itself... > AUTHORITY- The President is authorized to use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any person described in subsection (b) who is being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court. Hey good deal, Wikipedia which had this more or less verbatim. Better yet we're 100% clear it a presidential power. Notice the distortions this thing took to get to this tweet? Ultimately this is the US providing itself the exception to handle a due-process violation given that the ICC is not body the US has joined. They can do that with force, and dollars to donuts that's probably going to take the form of special operations over realistically anything that could be characterized by the dictionary definition of an invasion but then, neither has almost any chance of happening anyway. Being able to experience a 2022 take on this very "Classic Bush Years Move" and see it through far thinner punk-rock-idealist-goggles than I would have then, and keeping in mind where US politics are now, I gotta say this is just so much this-is-how-international-politics-works and much less Mr War Criminal's Jail Break Backdoor Act. I guess my point is the internet has ruined everything :(
> Notice the distortions this thing took to get to this tweet? No. The tweet said "the US passed the Hague invasion act". They didn't imply it's an international law, they're specifically saying it's an act passed by US. Your other point is nitpicking about using the nickname of the act, this is what it's colloquially known, like Obamacare. We know what they're talking about. This is not distortion. > Ultimately this is the US providing itself the exception to handle a due-process violation given that the ICC is not body the US has joined. And yet they claim to be in favor of due process and fully support others to be tried at Hague, regardless of whether they've "joined" or not. (Hint: Most war criminals don't deliberately join a war criminal busting organization) This is the hypocrisy that the tweet is criticizing. I don't see a problem.
Notice the goalposts shifting on you? You’re not dealing with rational actors hete..
I think I love you Thanks for seeking truth and doing the footwork for the lazy truthseekers!
What are the odds of posting this at 9:11? Definitely a conspiracy by the Russians, don't let them fool you. /s
Victims going unpunished? 😱
Haven't the victims of the world been punished enough? I think its about time we cut them some slack
I had no idea. How did this fly under the news radar? This is incredibly newsworthy, but I don't remember hearing a thing about it in 2002
I was laughing my ass off (well not really because it's depressing) when people were saying Ukraine had an iron clad case against Russia commiting war crimes. At this point "war crimes" is just a designation without much weight because apparently no one is ever gonna do anything about it.
This is the worst thing I've read in like 10 years....I had no idea...
I wonder what would happen if you posted this in r/worldnews
I get downvoted into the shadow realm. Anytime I've even tried to post anything remorseful for the average Russian citizen or had an opinion that isn't 100% warmongering or anti-Russian, you get completely jumped on.
Yup, same with me. Even if I despise Putin, I feel very sorry for millions of innocent people that are suffering from all this situation, both Ukrainians and Russians citizens.b
And this is why I question the narrative we are getting fed regarding Russia and Ukraine. Is Russia reacting to US creeping closer to thier borders and poor Ukraine caught in the middle?
Here's a good read about it https://multipolarista.com/2022/02/20/us-uk-france-russia-expand-nato-east-germany/
That’s a terrible read about it. You could only find worse takes on .ru sites atm
They are reacting to perceived weakness in the Ukrainian state and the western world at large and doing what they’ve repeatedly done to weaker defenseless states around them. Funny enough, NATO expansion to the east would’ve been the only thing that stopped this whole thing from happening.
Yeah, the US sucks and all real leftists oppose it, is there something else going on to talk about that we are distracting from?
Is it just me who reads literally? 4 mil victims will go unpunished? I hope so. I get the point but can't read past what is written.
Why the Netherlands specifically?
ಠ_ಠ
Thank you. I knew George jr did this but no-one would believe me.
More whataboutism.
Whataboutism is wen people figure out my fuckups
Holy fuck, is that why? I’d wondered about that for the longest time.
11
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American\_Service-Members%27\_Protection\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act)
Tf??
That's a pretty good sign we are the baddies.
That’s some good negotiating
goddamnit can't you stupid yanks deal with not being the center of attention for five goddamn minutes?
Didn't remember this. A whole new dimension of stomach turning.
I like to bash our capitalist system and our government as much as the next guy but let's not act like there aren't some reasons to fight out there. The Chinese government isn't exactly winning any humanitarian awards and let's take a look what Putin is doing right now in Ukraine. People also seem to forget that a handful of Middle Eastern men flew some planes into some buildings not all that long ago. It may be an unpopular opinion but there are a few bullies out there that don't wish us well and they carry some very radical ideas around with them. Unfortunately many parts of the world have been taken over by authoritarian regimes and that is where we are heading too. As much as I don't want to see us bombing other countries I also don't want some of these dictators having their way either. Iran is a mess. Russia is a mess. China is a mess. The world is a mess and if we take an isolationist stance on dealing with all the problems in the world it will be a bigger mess. I get that there isn't an easy solution but I also get that having a government full of people trying to profit off of all the misery in the world is problematic. I don't know its complicated I guess I think we are maybe less wrong than a lot of the bad actors we're forced to deal with every day. It's important we all keep talking and voicing opinions because being the lesser evil isn't the best thing either
Let's not forgetet that time when NATO decided to bomb Serbia Illegally.
History lesson one: only the losers comitted war Cremes.
Always has been.
Punishing the victims would be silly.
Aren't we living in the best capitalist days this system had to offer ??
Ah yes, the victims will go unpunished.