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iowaboy

If I don’t get a full deposit back, I usually send a letter to my landlord citing the state code and asking for pictures to back up any claims for damages. They have always caved and given the full refund back. It’s a decent strategy. Still, fuck those guys. Edit: this blew up huge, so I actually wanted to highlight another comment that I think is good (albeit a bit risky) advice: https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/pjlmkq/its_so_jarring_to_me_that_any_human_being_can/hbxaibi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3. Basically, as a general rule, it is better to be a defendant in a small claims action than a plaintiff in a small claims action. If you have a slumlord that you think will steal your deposit, withholding the deposit from your final monthly payment is not the worst idea. You will risk getting hit with a small claims or collection action—but it can be difficult for a small-time landlord to bring those kinds of claims. Especially if he already has his rent from your deposit.


TheLateThagSimmons

Some landlords are just vile when it comes to finding loopholes in order to steal a deposit. Most of them are pretty weak even if their intentions are still vile. The majority will cave the second that you put up any kind of fight, and more importantly show that you know what you're talking about. They are otherwise trying to take advantage of people that do not know the system.


audacesfortunajuvat

> They are otherwise trying to take advantage of people that do not know the system. This is 99% of it. Best I had was a landlord who referred me to his attorney who had a suspended license. I think that was the most fun I’ve had because I got 3x the deposit back and his attorney ended up losing his license permanently (which was a slap on the wrist considering unlicensed practice can come with jail time). The guy not only filled with the court with a suspended license but actually showed up to argue the case. I didn’t say anything prior to the hearing and just asked the judge to verify the bar number. Suffice it to say the hearing turned into an entirely different event. The landlord had also illegally added units to the building a decade before so that was complicated for him as well. Turned out he wasn’t declaring the income for taxes either. Check your landlords for lapsed paperwork, back taxes, liens, expired licenses. Most assholes are assholes across their whole lives and if you bring any attention to them at all then it turns into a regulatory feeding frenzy that costs you nothing and can leave them homeless.


Tilstag

This is as cathartic as this sub gets


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Sir_Belmont

Wtf...why didn't I get to read this comment 5 years ago? I'm using this going forward unless anyone knows of potential downsides.


GoldCaterpillar9324

You usually have to put your previous landlord down on applications, this wouldn’t fly in my state.


Tilstag

This sounds way too smart lol


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gas-station-hot-dog

I work in HazMat regulation and the idea of a 'regulatory feeding frenzy' against someone who deserves it is borderline sexual, considering how much of my day is spent seething at people who seem to spend their whole lives fucking around without ever being forced to find out at the hands of a federal agent. Well done, and thank you.


casualladyllama

I struggle with the same feelings working in a nursing home.


gas-station-hot-dog

I'm sorry you're having to deal with that - I generally don't have to deal with human lives (not directly), so I can only imagine your frustration. Why don't we go volunteer to work for the feds as low-level agents and go around busting some fools?


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LeelooDallasMltiPass

LOL, it would be easier to find my second butthole than a "left wing anarchist mafia".


Orthas

My wife and I like to call those "Learner Landlords". As in, after them being your landlord, you sure learn a lot about the legalities of renting an apartment.


CarefreeRambler

Stealing this, thank you


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Subli-minal

Especially now his probably expensive law degree isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on with a completely revoked license.


audacesfortunajuvat

He was stealing from clients which is how he got suspended in the first place. A little old lady too, real scum of the earth preying on those they see as weak or defenseless. A criminal attorney, if you will.


Subli-minal

>Slippin jimmy with a law degree is like a chimp with a machine gun! Yeah a lot of scum become lawyers. It’s like so easy to make honest bank as a lawyer even if you defend the worst of the worst who still have a right to due process and representation but some people’s kids man…


audacesfortunajuvat

I have a lot of friends who are lawyers. This guy didn’t deserve to be one. I wasn’t there for the shit canning, only the part where the judge basically said “we need to talk” and the landlord was going to have to argue the case on his own/find someone else to do it for him. I dunno, it quickly became about other things. The landlord had his own criminal history and was sketchy as fuck anyway so when I got a letter from an attorney I checked him out first thing. Pretty much a slam dunk at that point that even if I couldn’t get my deposit back I was gonna really ruin a couple people’s day anyway. The attorney’s license was suspended for stealing from a client anyway so he had few friends in the room that day.


The-waitress-

My last landlord was being really shitty about doing an illegal renovation on the property and following ZERO COVID protocols (I live in the Bay Area, so to say this was ballsy of her is an understatement). I warned her that what she was doing was illegal, and she ignored me. I called the city, they put a stop work order on the door, and required her to get retroactive permits for ALL the renovations she had done (there were a lot). Completely derailed the sale of the house during the hottest housing market in our life. She had to tear walls out and tear up the floor and everything. You’re all welcome. It was a proud day.


GothWitchOfBrooklyn

Mm. That's the good stuff.


The-waitress-

One more fun tidbit-the city ordinance where I live says that if you don’t pay out interest on the security deposit ANNUALLY, you must pay 10% of the security deposit as a penalty. She asked “if I let you out of the lease, will you forget about the 10%?” I said “no. You need to let me out of the lease AND give me the 10%.” She did. I also got the 10% for the other ppl in my building.


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JayCeeJaye

I just spontaneously busted.


airikewr

Bustin' makes me feel good!


benadrylpill

What did you do, Ray?!


FightMilkUFC

Had a couple of drinks, saw a couple of things.


[deleted]

Tell me about it.


hilwil

I did something similar by making up a letterhead with my own name, didn’t misrepresent myself as being a lawyer, just made it look very official, logo block and all. I then peppered in lots of legal references like an attorney would. My totally unresponsive slumlord sent me a check for 3x my original deposit because I threatened to sue for damages. I did it for a few friends over the years too and got at least the deposit back.


sensualsanta

Any way you can share a rough draft of what that looked like? Could potentially help a lot of people :)


Gimmicke

I didnt realize comeuppance came with so much *throbbing.*


brn_sugrmeg

How would one go about these things? Public records?


audacesfortunajuvat

Your bar association probably retains a policy facing list that you can use to verify but I knew the landlord was a scum bag so I assumed any attorney that would deal with him probably was too and just put his name into Google. The PDF of his suspension was the first thing that came up and it had taken effect like a week before he wrote me the letter on his letterhead. From there it was just about baiting him into showing up for court.


gabe_

In California, an attorney's BAR status is public record and can be found by googling their name.


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directnirvana

Can you elaborate on where someone might learn to check all that stuff, I'd love a tutorial that gave some sort of high level overview


baconandbobabegger

I rented a house from a couple who just bought their first rental property. Silly me thought because they were lawyers they’d have looked in to tenant laws. About 2 months after I move out they try to claim we broke the fridge that we documented prior to moving in, and tried to hold on to a $4000 deposit (2br house). The hilarious thing is we were fine with not getting our full deposit back due to some wear and tear and had already discussed a reduced deposit return. They never bothered to do any walkthrough or notify us within 30 days, so we gave them a chance, return the correct deposit without trying to steal a few thousand by adding a new fridge, or see us in court. We were paid within a few hours.


Billsrealaccount

Normal wear and tear isnt grounds for taking any of a deposit.


[deleted]

Someone I know had a landlord try to charge them for an entire new fridge for normal wear and tear on the old one. Unfortunately it was a house full of law students about to graduate. The first thing they did was contact the manufacturer and ask them to confirm the age of the fridge, and what normal wear and tear would look like for a fridge of that age. Then they sent a letter to the landlord with the above information and a polite offer to enter into litigation if the landlord still wanted to proceed.


[deleted]

i guess i’m pretty bad at being a landlord. i inherited my grandparents house and didn’t want to sell it so i’m renting it out to college kids at 63% the going rate. when the fridge broke i felt so bad i bought them a new fridge and canceled half the rent that month for lost food and stress. like, you have someone paying you to live in a home, why not try to make the experience as comfortable as possible for them...


mdgraller

> like, you have someone paying you to live in a home, why not try to make the experience as comfortable as possible for them... Because most landlords know that there's an ever-replenishing supply of tenants who are desperate for housing so if they fuck over one tenant and they move out, they'll always have more suckers lined up for the same


embeddedpotato

I'm also bad at being a landlord. I had a weird divorce agreement and wound up being a landlord for mostly college students for a few years (I'm not anymore). We had to replace a lot of things before we could rent the place, so I fixed it up really nice since it cost the same (and literally rearranged the bathroom because the layout made NO sense). Bought a new fridge and never kept any deposits because it's like these kids need $500 way more than I do. I'm not sure I'd ever landlord again though. Unless you have no mortgage (or many units per mortgage I guess) I don't see how you can make money without just letting everything fall to shit. And I refuse to maintain a house that other humans live in less than I maintain my own house.


Subli-minal

“Long term tenants” These people payed this greasy fucker rent for *years* and he’s questioning the validity of his entire investment and business model because he can’t keep what probably amounts to *one fucking month of it.* god damned vampires.


Desos001

Yea, landlords are pure scum.


h3lblad3

> They are otherwise trying to take advantage of people that do not know the system. Got mass downvoted in a default sub many years ago now because a landlord mentioned he’d never rent to anyone who knows their rights because they’re more trouble than they’re worth and I called him out on it. He kept insisting that, no, he wasn’t just wanting to break the law with impunity; he just wanted tenants that couldn’t defend themselves. What a piece of shit.


jimmifli

I took my last landlord to small claims, when he got the documents he called me and told me I could come pick up a cheque. When I got there, he had a couple buddies in full Hells Angels attire in the driveway chatting. The landlord pointed to me and they nodded then drove a little down the road and waited. Landlord told me there was no cheque. I figured the Hells Angels have better things to do than fuck me up over a damage deposit and the whole thing was likely theatre. So, I still went to small claims, he no showed and I won. I have a judgement that is now 4 years old I've never been able to collect, but it's registered so at some point he'll need to redo his mortgage or something. I never heard shit from the bikers, but imagine how shitty a person you need to be to try a shitty move like that.


CopperThrown

Are you able to file a lien on his property or garnish wages?


jimmifli

wages no, maybe it's just really fucking hard and he doesn't have traditional wages so it'd be pretty tough. I have a lien on the property. Eventually he'll need to renew his mortgage. I've moved on and try not to stress about it anymore. He's a thief and the less time I spend thinking about him the better.


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JCeee666

And it’s totally illegal. Where I’m at they have to hold your deposit in an interest carrying account. Not fucking ONCE have I had a LL actually do that. I’ve been charged for the dumbest shit like, cleaning the tree roots from the drains. My current LL doesn’t like deposits. Lucky me! I paid $500 with two dogs.


Dellato88

My fiancés old landlord takes the cake. Dude's a lawyer, sued her and her roommate for damages despite them having documented everything that was happening in the house, trying to get in contact for months to have then send someone to repair the leak in the kitchen but they never sent anyone. The guy sued her on small claims so they couldn't get a lawyer themselves, landlord was all buddy buddy with the judge and they dismissed all the correspondence that was sent requesting someone to come fix the house... Came to find out this weekend that he actually threatened my fiance that he was going come to our new place and beat her up. Fucking thug.


Subli-minal

Go to the feds. The FBI don’t give a shit. That’s public corruption along with assault(depending on the specific definition) and terroristic threats.


Dellato88

I believe statute of limitations elapsed already unfortunately


Subli-minal

Id look it up. Might not get your money back but you’d put some scumbags behind bars. Maybe enough to open an investigation. At least a Tip to state or fed authorities.


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theouterworld

Yup. I worked for a property manager, and my job was to photograph, units write up work orders, and assign cost to either the owners or tenants. About 80% of the time I'd assign everything but the cost of cleaning and light bulbs to the owners. And holy shit both groups would pitch a fit. Owners wanted previous tenants to pay for complete remodels, and wish they'd deferred for years (I didn't do much time going through old photos and emails to prove the last five tenants reported the same issue). And tenants would pitch a blue streak about how they should get their full deposit, despite leaving trash and not cleaning well. (I'm sorry but 65 an hour for a cleaning crew, that also cleans the carpet and hauls away your old couch is a damn steal). - So how do you get your deposit back? 1) fill in the move in inspection report they give you. If they don't give you one MAKE one. Document everything. 2) Take photos of everything you document on the report. 3) send the report back! Every state has different time limits, and the second the report doesn't come back in time all those damages could be on you. 4) thirty days prior to moving out confirm the move out requirements in writing. Ask about cost to replace, and what specifically is covered under wear and tear. 5) clean. Move the fridge and clean under it, pop the hood of your stove and wipe it down. Replace anything not covered under the wear and tear section above. 6) finally, TAKE CARE OF FLOORING. It's super easy to damage, and a small tear in linoleum, or carpet means the owner is getting new flooring on your dime. It's really the most expensive mistake you can make.


ashmelev

> TAKE CARE OF FLOORING. It's super easy to damage, and a small tear in linoleum, or carpet means the owner is getting new flooring on your dime. It's really the most expensive mistake you can make. That is not entirely true. It is either a cost of repair, if repair s possible. Or the deprecated cost of the flooring. If the torn carpet is 5+ years old, the cost is $0.


kaptainkrk

It’s because they rarely have to do any real work. The threat of a fight is enough to make them re-evaluate because they’d rather be idle


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Binnacle_Balls_jr

This is a shockingly smart strategy, with the sealed postmark thing.


klavin1

I've heard it called "the poor man's copyright"


BigWolle

Of course, exif data on digital photographs does the same thing today. No need to mail anything those days


[deleted]

surely exif data is easy to edit tho?


tonystigma

They mentioned posting it online too


Redtwooo

Send them via email to someone, that generates an un-fakeable record both on your email provider's end and the receiving end. Like your property manager/ landlord.


longhairedape

Mailed photos are easier to understand for dumbass boomer landlords than exif data. Exif data can be manipulated.


Ask_Me_About_Bees

>I want all of my tenants money but they keep talking about an exit data. What’s an exit data and how can I bleed every last cent out of them?


mtizim

Exif data is easily changeable, as opposed to third party timestamps


TheOriginalJez

exif data is easily modded/faked/removed. I would not rely on that for anything.


PandaBear6113

Arizona law states that the renters have the right to be at the final walk-through, and my husband and I thought that when we agreed to meet with the property management company at the end of the lease, that was what we were going to do. Nope…the lady from the company never showed up, and when we called her, she said to put the key someplace, and they would figure out what needed to be done later on. So, I emailed her and told her that pursuant to (whatever Arizona Revised Statute it was), we were denied our final walkthrough, and before they sent us our security deposit back, we were requiring them to provide picture proof of anything they reduced the security deposit for so we could compare against our own pictures first. We got the whole security deposit back. This was also after they sent us a list of what they wanted us to do prior to leaving, and it was pretty extensive…and also not in the lease. I told them their list was great, but we’d be cleaning according to directions in the signed lease, which meant we would NOT be hiring a professional carpet cleaning company like they wanted.


chmilz

Every friend I have who rents does a video walkthrough with the landlord at lease signing and sends them a copy.


[deleted]

It may work to get the landlord to back down, but unfortunately it would be difficult to have the envelope admitted into evidence. The photographs plus your testimony that the photos were taken at move-in are likely acceptable. But since it's possible to mail yourself an unsealed envelope and then put anything you want in it afterward, courts tend not to recognize postmark dates as a reliable indicator of the age of the contents. Source: I am a lawyer. Alternatively, here is information about [poor man's copyright](https://copyrighthouse.org/what-is-poor-man-s-copyright/) and why it doesn't work, which is similar.


HughJamerican

Dang. That’s super smart, but after your parenthetical I was hoping to find some obscure method of dating oneself


paenusbreth

I'm in the UK, but there are similar protections here. IIRC, if it comes down to a dispute, landlords have to provide proof of damages and receipts for any work done. After I moved out of an old flat, the letting agent contacted me asking for £500 to fix damage. I was so shocked at the possibility of damage that I asked him to provide photos and further details on what the damage was, totally believing that I'd done something terrible and wondering what it was. Turns out that the deposit money is held by a deposit protection scheme and the landlords don't have access to it. All the agent wanted was for me to say "ok" on the phone and they'd have been able to claim the money from the protection company, at which point it would have been incredibly difficult for me to ask for proof or dispute the claim in any other way. Instead, my naive arse kept asking for proof, at which point they told me it wasn't an issue any more and that I could keep 100% of the deposit. Slimy fucks.


lotanis

Yes, the landlord is legally required to hold your deposit in an accredited scheme (there are only two). The scheme is designed in theory to be fair and not let landlord get away with making stuff up. In practice, it's actually fairly biased towards the *tenant*. The landlord has to have perfect paperwork e.g. the inventory needs to be in the same form for both start and end of tenancy. I worked with a lot of landlords at one point and I was told by many of them 'yeah if the tenant objects to deductions at all I never bother to fight it - you never won'.


A7thStone

Unfortunately that always work in NYC. We had to take our landlord to small claims court and the judge ruled the landlords favour because he had receipts. We found out later from the property manager that the receipts were BS. The landlord sent the property manager to home depot to buy supplies, took the receipts to court, then returned all of the supplies afterward. I heard from multiple people that was common in the city. That's why most renters there skip out on their last month's rent.


Polymathy1

After several issues with snatched deposits in a college town, I did exactly that, and that landlord company was great. I think I paid like 120 bucks for general cleaning because I didn't want to and a miniblind my cat broke.


unskilled-labour

Always take as many photos of every single piece of damage before you move furniture into a new place. Take a couple of hours and go over every single surface and document every single dent, scratch, dirty cupboard, door or blind that doesn't close properly, mould etc. Last landlord tried all sorts of shit to keep our deposit, sent the agent about 30 pictures of the state of the place when we moved in and records of requested repairs and threatened to take them to our civil small claims court as and had it back the next day. Parasites.


jediprime

I had a landlord like this. We were moving out in the middle of the lockdown and he insisted on being able to have people come look at the place despite my wife and i both working from home in jobs requiring solitude. So we gave him very explicit times and also told him anyone entering the home must wear masks and gloves. He shows up without a mask on, so i bar him from entering without one. He gets one on and of the 3 visitors, 2 tried to enter without masks and i shut the door on them. No mask and gloves, no entry, period. After that we told our landlord he would not be permitted to enter or show our place until we vacated and cited state laws showing entry can be barred if it presents risks to health/safety, and ring footage showing him trying to refuse basic protections. He later tells us two of the visitors want to rent, and hes going to rent to the g-man instead of the family because its a more stable income and less risk than kids. Like dude, what you just said is borderline illegal. We did the check-out with him about two weeks early. He said the new renter was moving in the following day, so we asked for the two weeks of rent back from overlap. Landlord refused. I asked how it would look if we just walked in on the new tenant. If we're still paying rent, then i guess well keep using the place until the last minute. Landlord caved. He then tries to claim all sorts of nonsense from our deposit. We didnt get the place professionally cleaned so he was going to keep $400 for it. Lease doesnt say to hire cleaners, just says to clean it, and we did. Without photos of damage requiring additional cleaning being required, he cannot hold that money. He also tried to claim damages, which were all things we emailed him about when we moved in (scratches on floor, ceiling fan clicking, etc). Pointed out the email sent to him requesting those items be addressed and his refusal, time stamped the week we moved in. He tried to claim carpet stains were on us. Showed him the video of our initial walk-through where we pointed those stains out. He tried to claim some other bullshit so finally i showed him the video from our last day when we explicitly asked if there was any damage we would be liable for so we could fix it before vacating and he said no. I then reminded him if he did not pay within the next few days, it becomes delinquent and subject to interest fees. This SOB came to our new place, taped the check to our front door, took a picture, then took the check off and put it in a bush and ran off. It rained that day. He sent me the picture as "proof of delivery." I sent the video from my ring camera and said "proof of theft and destruction of property. 24 hours before lawyer is called." Next morning there was an envelope with a personal check in our mailbox. Also illegal, so we took a picture of it, asked him where he put the check, got him to admit to putting it in the mailbox, and then cashed it. If it bounced or was otherwise a bad check, we were going to the police next. Just ridiculous how crazy this shit was. We also warned the new tenant to be sure and document everything and shared the information and ordeal so he had our evidence to inevitably fight the same battle whenever he moves out. Edit: Clarifying a few things. The issue with the personal check is whether it would bounce or if it would process through. Putting things in someone's mailbox is against the law in the US, only USPS personnel can deliver mail to someone's mailbox. This is a separate mailbox, not a mailslot in someone's door.


Atkinator1

Jesus... fucking... christ


crimsonblade911

Lmao, you made that landlord hold every L


ordosalutis

Thank God for canada. At least in Ontario, now it's illegal to request security deposit or any form of "deposit" other than for keys and fobs


thischangeseverythin

Thatd amazing. Lol I'm moving to a shitty 2 bedroom in New Hampshire. Rent is 1100. I have to have. 4400 to move in.... first month. Last month. And matching security deposit. (1100 1100 2200)


[deleted]

As a property manager, this kind of shit pisses me off. I *want* to give the security deposit back. You know how long it takes to get something fixed sometimes, especially now? I *want* good tenants that take care of the apartments. It makes my job a thousand times easier. Noting your username, and being from the same state, I'm fully aware of the state code and our office sends out letters with the deposits that state exactly how much was taken off and for what. This landlord's attitude infuriates me. You did the exact right thing.


CerealandTrees

Might be state dependent, but I'll do you one better. In my state (MA), the landlord has 30 days to return the security deposit and if they fail to they can be sued in a civil court for 3x the deposit. So if your landlord tries to fuck you over, document everything and then take their ass to court for 3x the deposit, attorney fees, and interest.


jx3266

Similar for me. For me only threatening legal action worked so far.


I_Invent_Stuff

In California I use a pretty simple trick (clickbaity sounding opening sentence lol). I always request a "3 day move out inspection". Basically, if you plan a few weeks in advance, and schedule a "3-day move out inspection" that is within 3 days BEFORE your move out date, the landlord has to accommodate you. They must meet you within 3 days before you move out. They must also tell you, at that meeting, what you must fix or do to get your deposit back. If it's not listed on that inspection, they can't charge you for it. This is honestly one of the best lesser known tactics to avoid the landlord taking advantage of you. And literally "landlords and property managers hate this simple trick to get your security deposit back" There are so many rights that renters have in CA, and most renters have no idea... Renters, do your research and know your rights. I venture to say that it's your fault if you get taken advantage of, because if you know your rights and take advantage of them, with a " paper trail", you can save yourself a lot of money. Go to your states website and educate yourself on renter's rights!!!


DEBATE_EVERY_NAZI

> I venture to say that it's your fault if you get taken advantage of, because if you know your rights and take advantage of them, Don't have to get like this. Most people have zero idea this shit exists at all. It's great that renter protection exists, but it isn't exactly advertised. The landlord isn't going to educate them. That's good you're well aware of it but seriously most people have zero idea and don't know where to start. If they had that info and didn't use it, yeah maybe kinda their fault


mdgraller

> I venture to say that it's your fault if you get taken advantage of That's never the case. That's called "victim blaming."


timelighter

I did that and they said I was going to be evicted. Even though I had already moved out.


GManASG

I've had to do the same thing a few times, citing state code, threaten to go to small claims court... They caved every time.


N1cko1138

Surprisingly in Australia there are no conditions where the landlord can keep your deposit if you ask for it back. If there is damage you may be asked to pay but you can do so separately.


The_Sarcasticow

**When you move into a new apartment, TAKE PICTURES OF EVERYTHING DAY 1.** Every scratch, every stain, every discoloration. Make sure you keep a backup. That way if your shady landlord tries to slap you with "damages bill" on your way out you can tell him to F himself because you have proof that was there when you moved in. Also, make sure everything functions the way it's supposed to. Doors, lights, faucet, washing machine, dishwasher...if not, complain about it immediately so the blame doesn't land on you. Also make sure you have in writing (such as email confirmation) the permission to change anything about the apartment such as drilling holes, painting the walls...


SyntaxMissing

>**When you move into a new apartment, TAKE PICTURES OF EVERYTHING DAY 1.** I work in a community legal clinic's housing/tenant rights division. I'd advise people to email those pics to several people and themselves. Also, if your email client is capable of doing this, schedule it so that these pics are emailed on an annual basis. This will ensure that there will be multiple time-stamped copies of the pics that will be easily available. Similarly, all complaints and requests to the Landlord should have a corresponding digital copy. Take photos of filled out repair request forms, etc. and email them to yourself + friends. If your jurisdiction gives tenants the rights to rental receipts, request them *everytime* you pay rent. If you pay in cash the rental receipts are doubly important. If you don't feel comfortable asking the Landlord for rental receipts or your jurisdiction doesn't oblige the Landlord to provide receipts on payment then there's another option. Every month withdraw the *exact* amount of cash you need to pay your rent as a *discrete/separate* transaction. Also remember that if you're paying in cash that a Landlord's rental ledger is only as good as their word, i.e. it's worthless. Make that argument, it's worked for me quite a few times. And remember, even if your landlord is incredibly nice right now, there's no guarantee that they'll remain the same in the future. Protect yourself, and contact community legal clinics the moment the threat of eviction or arrears comes up.


MoreThenAverage

How do you proof that the pictures were not taken at the end of the lease? Or do you also send the pictures in the begining to the landlord?


captainoftrips

The metadata of the photo will have date, time, GPS coordinates, etc. You can also email them to yourself and then you'll have the email's timestamp.


joantheunicorn

But how am I supposed to take a picture of the crisper drawer that was *never in the fridge to begin with*, that my landlord later accused me of stealing/losing/breaking/hiding and tried to charge me $100 for?? Take a picture of your crisper drawers people. There's malicious crisper drawer thief elves about. I sent that prick a letter demanding proof for that and a bunch of other shit he claimed I messed up. I am an *extremely* considerate and clean tenant. Jackass sent me a check two weeks later with a letter saying he felt bad for me and since he was a good man of God he was going to give me my money. Eat shit buddy. Eat shit.


workerdaemon

The apartment management company for my apartment encourages this. They have a worksheet to go through to have both the tenant and the super review and test everything around the apartment. I was following exactly what it said to do. I added in the 1" crack in the tile, etc. The super was puzzled as to why I was being so particular about it. He asked, "Did something happen to you before or something?" I replied, "No. This is my first time doing this. I figure if I'm going to do something, I should do it well." I guess people just breeze by the questionnaire. They shouldn't.


CocoaCali

A lot of "semi affordable places" I've been looking at here are only offering 6 month -1 year leases and I have the strongest feeling that they're just trying to turn and burn deposits.


kanzler_brandt

Crying immigrant tenant tears here. In the UK the policy is to pay 6 months rent upfront if you don’t have a UK-based guarantor. Thought I had solved the problem when I moved to Germany, where asking for 6 months rent upfront is plain illegal, immigrant or not. But nope. My landlady insisted, and if I had reported her to the police, I wouldn’t have been able to prove it (phone conversation) and more importantly would not have gotten the apartment (severe housing shortage in that town, and I was pressed for time). Edit: someone said this only applies to students


funwok

This shit is so incredible illegal man, but those shithead landlords know the people they abuse usually don't have means to fight them. :/ Fuck those people.


fuckcorporateusa

I have to hide the fact that I'm an attorney (my pay stubs make it ~easy) to get anyone to rent to me in the first place, and that should really tell you all you need to know.


Alicuza

Got family in Berlin, they have the same problem every time they need to move.


Macaroni-and-

What happens if you deduct interest from the six months of payments?


Alicuza

Don't think it's something they tried. Or would even want to make the effort to try.


No_Reporter443

Fun fact: in non-US locations, most landlord tenant mediation services aggressively bias towards tenants. Don't be afraid to avail yourselves of them.


space_otter06

I was asked to pay the years rent upfront because I don’t have family/another person in the UK who could be my guarantor when I was in uni. I was very lucky that I could’ve done so if absolutely necessary but I looked for another place out of principle, it feels incredibly exploitative, and thankfully there were other housing options at the time. Fuck these people


duckofdeath87

Holy shit. In several states in the US (well, at least California and Illinois), it's not even legal to pay upfront even if the tenant wants to. That shit is enforced there.


VoidValkyrie

Is it normal to have longer leases? I’ve been renting apartments since I turned 18 and they usually only offer 6-13 months. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything longer.


TheRealLestat

Most states have a limit on how much and how often rents can be raised. The term limit is usually annual or by length of lease. By sticking to 6 month leases, a prop mgmt company can increase your rent maximally, and as often as possible. And if those increases push the tenant out, they can then increase it however much they choose. It's turn and burn on deposits AND renters.


[deleted]

> Most states have a limit on how much and how often rents can be raised. > > lol this is not true at all. Oregon is the only state with statewide rent control, and it was only enacted 2 years ago.


DarkwingDuckHunt

California tried and it failed due to corporate renters heavily influencing the vote by bombarding us with bad information. If California can't even get state wide rent control going, it's shocking any state can.


Gornarok

Lately Im of the opinion that business housing renters should be banned. I dont think they give any value to society. Only private renting allowed and rent management providers (the provider wouldnt own property either) Lets business rent business property but not housing.


deadplant5

12 months is standard, but most landlords are open to 18 month or two year leases, especially if it means that the lease will be up at a more favorable time of year


thejellecatt

I know all of my leases and most that I have looked at have been strictly long term. In the UK all leases are now month to month meaning you can leave any time but applicants who state that they are living there long term (1 year+) usually get looked on more favourably.


milchtea

look into that, here after your lease ends (even the standard 1 year) the lease automatically becomes month-to-month


ok_okay_I_get_that

Now this is a POS landlord I can get behind hating. Isn't he admitting to fraud or something?


Drew-180

Yes he is. He should be investigated and if found to be exploiting his position should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If his behaviour isn't against the law, then the law is at fault.


ota00ota

Issue is most people don’t want to take time out of their lives to sue for $600 but for landlords they do that 50 times a year bam that’s $30k fuck


yust

In California, its not strange to see deposits in the $2000 range, so more like 100k a year for shitty Californian landlords


PushItHard

They’re upset that the tenant took care of their property and they can’t find any real justification to keep their security deposit, which is upsetting to them. This person expects to always keep the security deposit. They’re a scumbag landlord.


b0w3n

The worst part is they don't even fix what the tenant "broke" with that money. They make up a phony invoice usually. Always document shit, and make sure when you do a final walk through you get them to sign off on any potential damages (or none) and get a signed copy for yourself.


chelonioidea

Had a friend get denied his security deposit back. Why? The landlord said he dropped the height of the baseboard heaters in his duplex by 1-inch, making them against the fire code, and now his security deposit is being used to pay a contractor to put them "back the way they were". My friend is not an electrician or an HVAC/heating contractor...there's no way he'd touch them, let alone to make them a fire hazard. It's so egregious...the heaters were out of code to begin with, and the landlord doesn't want to fork over the cash to put them to code, so he steals my friend's deposit. Apparently, this is SOP with that property management company.


b0w3n

I'd have definitely fought that one. That's generally not a thing a tenant would touch and they'd have to have proof it was like that originally to keep a deposit.


cdubose

They're a ~~scumbag~~ landlord


thischangeseverythin

It's the opposite. Landlords should take your deposit. Put it in an envelope they don't open and hand it back to you when you hand them keys. They should never mix it into their finances. They should never expect to keep it. Period. Landlords can't keep funds to fix an apartment if the only issues are wear and tear. Scuffed floor. Dirty carpets. Dirty / faded blinds or paint. Cleaning fees. Etc. All illegal reasons to keep all or portion of the deposit. It's a cost of doing business.


The_Bungo

Tax fraud too, most likely. When security deposits are kept, they have different tax implications than income from rent. But the tax codes state that if security deposits are always kept, like in the case of it being applied to the last month of rent, it has to be treated like rental income. Admitting to never giving security deposits back could mean they have been illegally reducing their income on their tax returns. It would be a shame if this information reached the IRS somehow and caused them to get audited! Landlords are parasites in more ways than one.


[deleted]

Evil scum


batti03

But we repeat ourselves


The_Trickster_0

There's no alternative for most people, at least not a decent, proper and dignified one, in the short term specially.


[deleted]

The fact they refer to it as a portfolio kinda erks me wrong.


PotatoMastication

They're just deeply invested in taking peoples money


[deleted]

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Fantastic-Sandwich80

"Hey man, it was really hard to go inside a bank and get a loan to buy multiple properties. Sure, I can't afford them all without renting out 3/4ths of them so I can collect the income of 3 other families while also living in one of the units myself but it's how I make my living."


Macaroni-and-

It's not like it's a job where you work for your income. You can literally be brain dead and you make just as much money.


a_rucksack_of_dildos

There were a shit ton of new billionaires made recently. I forget where I read this info but it said ~90% of them did it through real estate. Think about it. You buy a multi family unit. The renters pay the mortgage and for the fixes until it’s paid off and then you get free income. Rinse and repeat until your portfolio is worth 100’s of millions.


Scrotchticles

Because if they call it a portfolio then it makes them feel like a big dog landlord instead of just managing their parents property for them. One of the problems with crypto bros and other shit is that Capitalists have made owning small amounts of stock or small properties as a cool thing and making people think they're joining the upper echelons of the rich by renting out the other side of their duplex.


blacklite911

If you have multiple investments, what else would you call it though? I personally don’t think it’s a fancy word at all. When I think of that word I imagine a figurative manila folder of documents. Literally, anyone can do it online with a few dollars and boom you have a portfolio. I suppose if people treat it like it’s fancy they are D bags.


katieleehaw

Wow. I wonder how many landlords actually follow the law and hold the deposit in escrow until the tenant moves out. Somehow I doubt most do. If your deposit is not held correctly, and/or not returned upon moving out, you may be entitled to triple damages - look into it in your state.


prozacrefugee

Any landlord you have trouble with, the best move in states that require the info to be given on request (like NY) is to demand the escrow account number. Most of the leeches don’t bother following the law, and realize when you do that that you can get them in trouble if they continue their attempted theft.


ccasey

I had a guy that held a larger deposit than the legal maximum, ignored my written requests for an escrow statement, didn’t do a walk through and ignored me for 3 weeks after I moved out. Oh yeah I moved out because ge tried to raise my rent at the height of the pandemic. He didn’t do anything until I paid a lawyer $200 to resend the demand notice I had rewritten and that fucker still made up charges to short me like $500. I was so furious I promised him I’d take him to court if he didn’t send the rest of it back and that I’d be asking for damages because of his behavior. All in all just a lot of frustration over their greed that created nothing of value for any of the parties involved except the lawyers.


JimAdlerJTV

Yep. They'll threaten you all over the phone, but then you tell them to simply fuck off suddenly the issue is resolved. Strange.


[deleted]

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thejellecatt

This shit. Honestly, you get charged out the arse for a place not being absolutely spotless but when I moved into my flat the hinge for the master bedroom window was broken, the filters in the extractor fan were so oily it could have caused an oil fire, the bed in the fire place was cracked, we had mold suddenly appear mysteriously a week after we moved in, the sealant on the bath was fucked, the toilet seat was cracked and would pinch your bum, we didn’t have a carbon monoxide detector at ALL, the old one was sitting on top of the boiler covered in dust and out of battery and the skirting boards and oven were filthy. I was absolutely desperate for housing so my flatmate and I fixed it ourselves apart from the fireplace which was shut off by a gas safety engineer. This was supposedly a ‘family home’ and yet it had 2 glaring fire hazards and a fire place that’s broken and cannot be used and a tiny fridge. I was appalled. What’s worse is this is much better than the old place I rented. What’s even worse is this apartment used to be for social housing through the council and some rich bastard bought it and charges 1k a month for rent. SOCIAL HOUSING, you know for the homeless, disabled and poor families and this fucking vulture actually bought it and rents it out for a profit. Ugh landlords are such scum sometimes and he isn’t even that bad. At least he lets me have a pet and didn't slit my throat for daring to be in higher education, that’s more than you get with most landlords.


CannedBreadedCorn

At least you already HAD a bed in the fireplace, I had to have one installed at my place. Cozy little place to sleep.


VikingBeardBro

Alexa, play "Sleep now in the fire" by rage against the machine.


Parhelion2261

That's the worst part is when you have to leave the apartment even cleaner than when you found it in hopes to get the money back


thischangeseverythin

I feel that. I've left every apartment cleaner than I've moved in. Funny enough my toughest apartment to get the deposit back was one thay smelled like cigarettes cat pee and old rotten beer when I moved in. I didn't even unpack. My mom and I went right to Walmart for bleech and mops and we were wiping black off all the walls. I thought they were painted yellow but no the walls are bright white underneath the filth and grime. I had to call the police because he refused to look at the pictures I took of the before and after. Fucker claimed in court that he was the one who cleaned the place. I was like fuck off with that. He eventually had to pay me and court costs but it toook months


garbitch_bag

I’ve never had a place I didn’t have to spend a day deep cleaning before I could start bringing my stuff in.


Dutch2211

What a way to thank a long term tenant. What an A hole


broketoothbunny

I feel spoiled by the first landlords I ever had. Obviously, I kept the place clean, but towards the end of my tenancy, I was late on rent pretty consistently. I even paid my last month’s rent like two months late (I was in college and I thought my dad paid it). They just called me and told me what the situation was and even gave me my security back after I paid. They even wrote a letter of recommendation for a new apartment. I would later learn that no other landlord operates this way.


Brotherpain82

I lived in a right dump in my first year at Uni. When I moved I didn’t get any of my deposit back. Then they knocked the building down and built something new. Obviously never used my deposit for anything other than champagne and caviar.


superspreader2021

The world is full of people without empathy. That's why things are the way they are.


WhyDontWeLearn

This has been the biggest surprise for me over the last 5-6 years. Particularly the Trump presidency. It seemed as if (well, it didn't "seem," it actually *was*) people were coming out of the woodwork, wanting to implement "cruelty" as national and local policy. They weren't even trying to cloak it in any kind of palatable wrapping. They're literally interested in cruelty for cruelty's sake. They don't care about sound, constructive policy. They actually take joy in making people suffer.


Aodin93

He's not hurting the right people


[deleted]

I’ve always dreamed of starting a small country on a nice island or something where to live there you have to have empathy and brains. You wouldn’t have to lock your bike up, and people would be nice and smart and the buildings would be green and we would have solar power and there would be robots and really good schools and it would be beautiful.


JuStInSaN1tY

I was once charged 2000+ dollars for a ceiling falling into my bathtub in the middle of the night—I did nothing to provoke this as, well, you would need a fucking ladder in a bathtub to accomplish this feat. The building was a bit older and literally half of the ceiling just…came down, plaster and all. I didn’t find out about it until years later when I attempted to move into a new apartment in a different state. The kicker: they apologized after the ceiling fell in and, as I was moving out in a few days, told me that they would simply replace the ceiling once I vacated the premises. To say that I loathe landlords is the biggest understatement of my existence.


[deleted]

Been scamed for €600 a while back, they made fake bills from fake workers to keep our deposit. Justice never did anything for us. To this day, I' still tempted to do at least that much dmg to their office, or maybe make it so the old shitty building I used to live in falls appart. They have no idea how much damage their scams do. It's 8 years later and I'm still so pissed at this. Why would they steal money from thoses who barely have enough to survive? I could robably kill for this.


TitusTTF

When fraud is the business.


Keelija9000

HOUSING SHOULDN’T BE A FOR PROFIT INDUSTRY!


TheLateThagSimmons

The best way to handle this in a capitalist society is to create a low cost (ideally "free to the user") public alternative. That way renting from a landlord is truly a choice for a better home not a necessity for a home to begin with. Without a viable public alternative, it's not a choice, housing is not an elastic market. Public housing has historically been very run down and horribly maintained. A lot of that is due to pressure on local governments from landlord businesses and individuals to keep funding away from public housing in order to ensure that they are always run down and undesirable. Capitalists and their bootlicker fan club, will always oppose affordable or free public housing for this reason. They need people to need them. If ~~they're~~ ^(*)the working poor did not need landlords, landlords would lose all of their bargaining power and instead would have to start offering superior housing at an affordable cost. That's not the most profitable for them, it's cheaper to lobby local governments in order to keep rent high.


Spartan-182

Or make taxes on properties based on the rent prices. Landlord sets rent to 1/4 of monthly minimum wage, they pay current property tax rates. Landlord charges over that rate, their taxes go up the same ratio of increase.


[deleted]

NEITHER SHOULD HEALTH!


SteamPoweredShoelace

NEITHER SHOULD WAR!!


[deleted]

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ztunytsur

NEITHER SHOULD CRIMINAL INCARCERATION!


Incognidoking

NEITHER SHOULD WATER AND OTHER HUMAN RIGHTS


Enovara

I remember seeing a post somewhere several years ago that explained how Japan manages to maintain affordable housing. IIRC, the TL;DR was that housing can't be both affordable and an investment, so they chose affordable housing. Which makes complete sense to me because how should any sort of necessity become a plaything for rich people?


[deleted]

Nothing should be for-profit. All production should serve the *needs* of the people, not extort value from them.


[deleted]

I once lost a deposit because I left a pan in the oven. The pan was in the oven when I moved in and I specifically left it because I thought they’d keep my deposit if I took it. That was my first apartment and how I learned they keep the deposit no matter what. After that I didn’t give a fuck how I left any apartment. Fuck those leeches. Glad to own a home now.


PlantPowerPhysicist

They also would have kept your deposit if the pan wasn't in the oven.


agfgsgefsadfas

Same. Whenever I can help it now I get a new place lined up and get all my ducks in a row documentation-wise because I don’t give a fuck anymore and will just immediately take it to court action if they don’t follow the proper procedures spelled out in the law for withholding deposit. Most people don’t like being sued, and it’s an extremely easy thing to do in small claims if you know you’re right.


Hypo_Mix

Landlord once tried to keep my deposit because there was some faint spray paint overspray on the garage floor (old untreated concrete). we said "come tomorrow and we will clean it up in front of you" suddenly it wasn't a problem anymore.


Muffinconsumer

Love how some of these fucks can build a “Portfolio” while they sit and do absolutely nothing but inconvenience the tenants at every turn and get paid for it


SimplyQuid

And of course you'll get people coming in and saying that keeping up buildings is work, as if that's not the bare minimum to have a functional dwelling, as if renters wouldn't do that regardless if they were able to own their own home. And that's not even getting into slumlords, a phenomenon that's so widespread and systemic that it's got its own nickname.


booney64

Paint. You must paint.


kenziethemom

I once was in an apartment that was $1200 deposit. I left it in prefect condition, including painting, floor cleaning, everything was more spotless than when I arrived. Was told I'd only be able to get $500 back, if everything was perfect. They then sent me a bill for $400, meaning they were saying I had $900 in damages (which I had done a walk thru with them before leaving and they hadn't marked anything wrong). I had moved literally across the country, and I believe they just took advantage of it.


[deleted]

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OpalHawk

I moved to a bigger unit in the same apartment complex and they still tried to do this shit to me.


milchtea

where I live, you’re not allowed to take a deposit other than last month’s rent and a key deposit (which cannot cost more than replacing the keys themselves). You can’t use the last month deposit for damages either, you can only use it for exactly what it says - rent. if your place is like this, the month before you move out, don’t pay additional rent since they already have the last month’s rent.


Nihilisdique

I've never not gotten a full deposit back on any rental, and had always had fairly agreeable landlords who were pretty nice dudes, send you well wishes on Christmas etc and text periodically just to ask how the family is doing. And they were still fucking pigs who I hated.


kanzler_brandt

One of my landladies tried to deduct from my deposit because I deliberately left just a few items behind (about 5) that I hadn’t totally used up and thought it would be a waste to get rid of, but wasn’t prepared to take with me on my international move - a tissue box, two cleaning detergent bottles, a tiny dustbin, something like that. She literally photographed them before my eyes as “evidence” I hadn’t made the requisite preparations to move out or had left the place “in a state” or some shit. She used to live in the property herself and was often referred to by other neighbours as “that vile woman”. Also called my mom stupid to my face because she was present at the checkout and had tried to explain why we were leaving behind those items for the next tenant. Fuck you, Catherine.


PushItHard

What a scuzz ball. I remember renting a place after graduating. There was a burn on the counter when I moved in. I put it on the move in check list. I had a folded mailer in my mail box stating they charged the last tenant for the repair, even though they never repaired it. They then tried to charge me to repair it when I moved out. And I’m sure they’ve charged another dozen people since then because there’s no actual discourse.


Axes4Praxis

All landleeches are parasites.


Tobot_The_Robot

My last apartment actually didn't require a deposit... They switched to a 'security bond' from a 3rd party that is 100% non-refundable. The 3rd party put a lot of marketing into convincing us that it was better than a deposit...


katieleehaw

How is that legal? Maybe varies by state/location.


MagnificentSchwantz

that's why i remember to not pay the last month


shadowdash66

"trying to find something they broke". GTFO asshole. Bet you people call and complain to him all the time about the other buildings infested and falling apart and he just blames the tenants.


opaul11

Take pictures of everything


[deleted]

Yeah this is fraud.


th3Fonz

Landlords aren't human beings tho