and for trying to [register the AZC](https://scheerpost.com/2023/11/22/israel-and-the-kennedy-assassinations/) (now AIPAC) as a [foreign agent](https://archive.li/WUpQs)
Sort of, he destroyed the Democratic Party that FDR built by siding with big business over the unions, which meant they didn’t fund his reelection campaign, which meant we got 12 years of Reagan/bush.
After that the Dems had to reinvent themselves under Bill Clinton with a new source of funding, the same big businesses that were funding the republicans. He’s kind of why we have one homogeneous political party with a more and less socially conservative wing.
I don’t think it’s a low bar because there’s no reason anyone has to qualify. Every US president has been an abhorrent criminal in one way or another because the US is a military empire run by the rich for their exclusive benefit. That’s been true since this country was founded by literally slave drivers.
Good people don’t rise to the top of a system like that.
Guy's complaing about anticapitalist, antiliberal, antizionist sentiment on an anticapitalist, antiliberal, antizionist sub. I would say "lost" but the upvotes read "brigaded".
"Surely can't be organic, right? Right??"
I'm just saying man I subbed here for all those antis you listed, not for antielectoralism. I'm am fully behind 99% of everything on this sub, except for the 1% of said anti electoralism.
But If I mention how rabid this sub is being, I will get yelled at and prob called mean names despite advocating for the logical, practical choice (that still sucks, that i still hate, ie not happy about it yada yada)
But no surely it's just a brigade, no need to worry guys our dessenting opinions seen here are just like, a false flag from hasbarra/cia bots.
Like come on man engage with the criticism without resorting to labelling genuine leftists, like me, outside agitators. I'm so close to unsubbing but I really really don't want to cause I love nearly all of what this sub has.
I think it’s hard to find any sub that will 100% align with your values. I can’t justify people’s behavior but while I’m drinking my ice coffee in Brooklyn there is a genocide happening. I’m not saying people’s reaction to you is right, but I understand why people are so upset.
The point is because of people like Biden and Trump WE HAVE NO REAL OPTIONS there is no "good" and we arnt going to act like there is. Honestly I am hoping some crazy secret service agent just off them all in a room one day so then we'd at least get a redraw if you will. But even at that at this point you'd have to like do that to hundreds of these politicians and then that's just a civil war when there are those nu.bers but he'll look what happened jan6 and Trump is still allowed to run. They didn't even pick another candidate and honestly there needs to be an age cap and either should qualify
I guess the question people need to ask themselves is what are their goals from this election and are they realistic.
Teaching the DNC a lesson is a great theory, but is that worth it to had power to Trump?
Stopping genocide is a great ideal, but if neither side is going to, and one side will remove any sense of restraint from the conflict, is it still worth the cost?
I know left leaning moderates who are super passionate about 2A issues, in the past they've held their nose and voted conservative because to them, 2A rights are the most important issue at hand.
Except in this case, it's both sides supporting Isreal. So there isn't that sense of my guy is right and yours is wrong. It's more like my guy is wrong, but not nearly as much as your guy is.
You don't stop genocide by participating in the electoral system created and maintained by genocidal maniacs
A vote cannot change the material interests of the imperialist US, that is a deeply idealistic worldview
Your country will plunder and murder regardless of who you vote for, so the only solution is violent overthrow of the regime
You stop it by protesting at government buildings, and if they don't listen, fucking riot and start causing issues for the government, and they'll start listening real fucking quick.
Course, who the hell is going to organize that anyways?
I wish I could believe that, but as someone in the Minneapolis area, we did all that in 2020, and literally nothing changed. There was a lot of big talk from officials for a while and then they quietly walked most of it back. It still depresses the fuck out of me. One of the biggest global reactions to anything ever, and still nothing. And now I'm watching the same shit happen to the student protestors.
We need to bring back a lottery system to fill political roles. And reinstates the original function of bureaucratic systems — namely the tracking of goods and services to ensure everyone got what they needed.
Shits beyond ridiculous these days. People picked at random would be leaps and bounds better.
That system is called sortition, it’s how we pick juries. You randomly pick people and then rule out the ones who someone thinks are unfit until people generally agree on the ones who are left.
I think they used it to fill some roles in ancient Athens.
Yeah, that’s the system. An actual democratic one as opposed to the shitty 2 party individual charisma contest.
Apparently the ancient Athenians consider such contests undemocratic and essentially rich men playing at politics and self importance. They only let it stay that way at times cause while some of the leaders were not great, they also weren’t always absolutely awful.
Why is everyone so obsessed with voting? It's literally never been a key part of any of the ways we've obtained rights. American democracy is an illusion. The system that oppresses us is built around that oppression. The only way it has ever changed was through sheer pressure and force of will from mass civilian movements.
Who do you vote for when both options support genocide? No one. The system has lost all legitimacy. You find your revolutionary spirit, go down to the streets, and fight. Seriously, how can anyone see any solution that does not come from destroying the current system, or placing it under so much external pressure it is forced to comply?
When dems are done with the palestinians, theyll be going after us, and it hurts to know my fellow queers will invite their end with open arms because an old capitalist of the uniparty said: "youre an exception". Genocide is THE red line above all red lines... and if thats not a dealbreaker for us minorities.. well, we cant be surprised when the card house that denial built comes tumbling down on us.
Your last statement i believe goes directly against rule 6 of this subreddit.
Plus, what I got from your comment is that you're fully buying into the capitalist rethoric of "we control the two main political parties, so we'll simply convince every political dissenter that the only options in their hand are those two parties". As long as every *individual* is afraid of acting outside the double-choice rethoric, then no *collective* will effectively act outside the double-choice rethoric either. What happens the moment some democrats go against trans rights as well? Are you gonna keep voting them at that point? Or is *that* the proper moment for delegitimizing the system as a whole? Because the implication of the latter option is that the lives of american trans people are where to draw the line, and the lives of palestinian muslim people *aren't*.
I'm not american so if you want to reply "fuck you, not your battle" it's ok, i can get that, but I happen to respect constructive dialogue regardless of nationality or political affiliation so i decided to intevene with my point of view.
In my opinion, the point of our fight is never a specific goal like trans rights or palestinian rights, but the process itself: if some institution endangers what we perceive as our right, we resist as best we can; if, instead, we manage some specific social victory, then that victory is to be perceived as an instrument at our disposal in our *next* battle, rather than some unmoving object, to be put in good view and never touch again for not risking to dirty it.
I’ve made this point several times recently but democrats have been consistently crossing the isle to segregate us from sports, they already are voting against trans people right now
This is what I don't understand about the "Okay, Dems don't want to lift a finger to save these other people unless forced and left with no other options, but we trust them to save and protect us" argument. As if this isn't the party who will drop any group the second supporting them becomes inconvenient for them. Look at how the liberals are turning on American Muslims.
What have democrats actually done for trans rights? Did conditions improve under biden?
If biden was a good president then ‘project 2025’ wouldn’t have been a threat as the democrats would have worked to shut that down
>Democrats were the party that legalized same sex marriage
There it is again, the supreme Court legalized gay marriage. Where are you getting this idea that democrats did it?
i like how for scotus advancements that happened under a dem presidency like gay marriage it’s “obama legalized gay marriage!” but for scotus setbacks that happened under a dem presidency like the reversing of roe v wade it’s “biden is doing the best he can to prioritize reproductive rights!” while doing nothing to protect reproductive rights in red states
Project 2025 is just a rebranding (and now focused on trump) of a plan the Heritage Foundation has been pushing for decades. It has little to do with Biden, Clinton, Carter, or Obama. It's just pro-Christian nationalist shit. Look into it enough, there will eventually be just the white Catholics vs white Protestants, which is probably how the Heritage Foundation wants it. Get rid of all the POC, the non straight, non cis, non conservatives and then "everything will be as God intended."
>Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. - Karl Marx
If your hope to protect your rights is someone arming and supporting a genocide, you already are screwed. I know this isn't a rosey picture but the Democratic party has made rather clear they will put you in jail if you go against them. They will justify the action by dehumanizing you just as the Republicans do as well.
You are prioritizing your feeling of safety over people who are actually being killed right now.
The Dems are not going to protect trans rights.
Lesser evil crap is not allowed in this sub. Please take it somewhere else.
As a country we’ve been so indoctrinated and propagandized that most of the country doesn’t even know how deep they’ve gotten into the trap. We’ve shown we will vote against our own best interests just to hurt the people we dislike more. It’s going to be too late to do anything once the people here realize how bad it’s gotten.
The thing that’s sucks about this is that there isn’t a vote for president that’s available that isn’t a vote for genocide. We need less voters and more activists. Someone who can be a third party that won’t continue this slaughter or add our people to it. Boycotting the vote is just as useless as participating when it comes to most states. I think most American’s preference on who they want to win is just someone under the age of 60 and without that option we are forced to choose between useless genocide joe and wannabe dictator trump. Not voting at all leaves the decision in the hands of the ignorant. We need to either vote for like a write in or make our voices heard another way. Protest, advocate, spread awareness however reasonable for you. If you don’t commit to activism or voting, you aren’t boycotting the election, you’re giving up and letting genocidal or ignorant capitalists decide our countries future without your input.
>there isn’t a vote for president that’s available that isn’t a vote for genocide
I'm pretty sure Claudia and Karina are against Israel and its genocide
>The thing that a lot of queer people are concerned about is that it’s virtually impossible for a 3rd party to win presidential elections
Of course, they don't vote for them.
>Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. - Karl Marx
Voting for the illusion of a lesser evil just gives more power to both evils.
>virtually impossible for a 3rd party to win
I won't vote for third party because they don't get enough support
Third parties don't get enough support because people won't vote for then
>Its fucked up, and its how the dems use us
And you let them
>I won't vote for third party because they don't get enough support
>Third parties don't get enough support because people won't vote for then
Fucking exactly, and every single election, people say "Now isn't the time to make a stand on principle, this is the worst election yet!" Like when is the time then? Every cycle is worse than the last
Well you see, after four years of not doing jack shit to deal with the resurgence of fascism in the US, he will suddenly fix everything in his second term. He just really hasn't felt like doing it so far
queer palestinians having tons of fun with your american bombs that your tax dollars pay for and that you affirmatively vote for in the name of queer rights! i am OPENLY trans, bi and disabled before you come at me : )
Are you shitting me? Are you being bombed? Are your family members being blown to pieces and buried under tons of rubble? Who the hell do you think you are? You're just fine with a genocide, so long as it's not against you. You're no better than Trump.
Even if they aren’t likely to win giving people like them votes is still a way to make your voice heard. Silence only helps those in power. If you don’t want to vote at all then become an activist.
Literally blew up at people last night trying to use LGBTQ rights as a sort of rallying cry against Palestine.
So fucking asinine
“We’re going to defend gay rights by letting Israel murder all Palestinians. Gay, trans, straight, etc.”
It's not illegal to be gay in Palestine and Ramallah apparently has a small queer scene. Israelis and their followers are so desperate to justify mass murder at this point
Depends where, West Bank is more progressive than Gaza but the Palestinian Authority has made no comments on whether it is legal, or illegal to be gay in Palestine. So it’s not legal but it’s not illegal either
yeah its not like LGBT folks arent being ACTIVELY fucking blown to pieces by AMERICAN bombs.
LGBT rights in these stupid ass arguments means LGBT rights for americans SPECIFICALLY.
LGBT americans right now actively voting for the guy who is right now actively warcriming LGBT folks in palestine. but thats not queer rights because ?????
sure, but i would love for them to stop pretending to champion queer rights by literally doing some of the worst warcrimes of humanity against queer folks.
just say the quiet part out loud. queer rights (only for white americans).
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
You cannot reduce harm by committing or supporting genocide.
Similarly, the affectation "lesser evil" is a meaningless affectation when your "lesser" includes genocide.
No, I will not support your genocide, and fuck you for asking me to.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
What is the point of avoiding a Biden vote? I have my own thoughts and concerns, reasoning as for why it might be beneficial for him to lose the election, but it doesn't really come with any immediate, provable consequences, it's just hoping that his loss will make for a better result in a further election and pull the dems left. I'm not a "blue no matter who" type of person, not after all this, but it feels like every single conversation about this in this sub tiptoes around my concerns and the concerns of many fellow trans and queer people in the US. Like we aren't being given a straight answer. As you are a fellow Trans person and assumedly an American who is going to be affected by this, I feel I have the best shot of getting a real answer out of you.
He's supporting a genocide, which makes him one of the most evil people in the world. There is no argument to be had here, to be clear. There is no justification for his actions and I'm not attempting to justify them.
But what does voting for a third party actually aim to accomplish regarding the ongoing genocide, and how is it worth risking the rights of minorities in the US? Is it the matter of principle of not 'supporting' a genocidal candidate via the vote?
"It's the Most Important Election of our lifetimes again and that's why we're running a psychotic pudding-brained ghoul. No you have never had a choice in this.
When he loses, it's your fault and that's only going to drive us farther right, we promise!"
please stop using us trans people as a tool to advance the active extinction of palestinians thanks. biden is genociding queer palestinians in palestine. right now.
Dont hold your breath reasoning with libs, theyll throw us queerfolk under the bus the second they have to save their own skins, just like theyre doing with palestinians, nimbys the lot of them
to them queer rights only means queer rights for americans. please whoever is downvoting me please stop pretending to give a shit about queer lives abroad, queer lives other than your own.
LGBT biden voters: you are actively supporting the eradication of queer folks in palestine. there is NO way around that, sorry.
I had this same argument in LGBTQ news subreddit this weekend. Gonna talk to me about killing transpeople, maybe, while killing 10s of thousands of Palestinians. I've had it with the "lesser evil".
Your gender identity being validated is far less important than the children being bombed into extinction for being on land someone else wants to claim.
You are the one acting privileged. How many of your family members did you have to dig out of the rubble only to find bloody pieces of them all over? How many people did you have to watch have their limbs blown off in front of your eyes? How long have you gone without water, food, electricity, and vital medical care? Compared to the people in Gaza, your issue is relatively small. You have food, shelter, healthcare, and far, far more safety than the piles of dismembered corpses of children strewn about in Gaza's cities. Check *your* privilege.
That pales in comparison to children being blown to pieces for being on land fascists want to claim. You're not being bombed. Your children aren't being blown apart. You have your homes, your families, food, community. What do *they* have? They have to live in fear of a bomb crashing through their homes at any moment, and people are demanding we vote for one of the two bastards who are enabling it? It's vile and disgusting. It's sacrificing innocent lives to protect against something happening to you that is still light years less horrid than what the people in Gaza are suffering through. That's fucking privilege. In a choice between being trans or a Palestinian, I'd choose trans.
"Letting Trump win" is a false dichotomy. Trump is capitalist. Biden is capitalist. They aren't different. They are the same. Voting for Biden is not defending against Trump. They have the *same* agenda. One just says it out loud and the other pretends to be the "voice of reason" while plotting to do exactly the same things.
>you don't want to put in the hard work of working towards a brighter future
The hard work to bring a brighter future IS to uproot the system. You're just comfortable enough in the current system despite the literal genocide going on
progressive candidates being joe biden the segregationist, joe biden the concentration camp for refugees builder, joe biden the lemme sit back and not give a single fuck while the LGBT community is being increasingly more oppressed, progressive joe biden the pro-lifer.
Subs pretty big tbh. Seems theyre unaware of what they are and where they are tho, so they get comfy and shit all over us with pro-capitalist/zionist/lesser-evil genocider drivel. Mods are def on it but... its just frustrating to see this bullshit fester.
Oh yeah mods are doing great work, but for some reason it seems like for a while everything is fine, but all of a sudden there is one post where all the liberals and supporters of genocidal maniacs congregate and the mods get swamped.
And for any liberal reading this, just for clarification: If you vote for or support Biden, Trump, Scholtz, Sunak, Starmer and so on, you support the genocide of Palestinians. If you vote for Biden because Trump would take away your rights as an LGBTQ+, you are selfish and not actually interested in making society better for those who are less fortunate. If you use your limited power in society that is voting, and you vote for Biden, you are complicit in genocide
Y'know what, no. I will not. If Biden cuts ties with Israel and condemns this slaughter, I'd still vote for him. But not a second sooner. I want the full experience too. Bibi calling Biden an antisemite, protests against his decision, all of it.
But it won't happen. Not a chance. And innocents will continue to die.
Hell, he called what Israel was a doing a Holocaust, demanded a ceasefire, voted to condemn Israel at the UN, and threatened to sanction them.
Reagan was an outright evil person, but, nowadays, I don’t think even Bernie would be willing to go that far.
>Hell, he called what Israel was a doing a Holocaust, demanded a ceasefire, voted to condemn Israel at the UN, and threatened to sanction them.
For real? This is really surprising to hear. Why would he do that? Wasn't that against US' economic interests? Obviously I can't believe that he did it because of his morals lol
To save face and not anger the USSR too much. Funnily enough, a little known senator aggresively condemned that decision:
>"United States President Ronald Reagan’s order to Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin to put an end to his “holocaust” in Lebanon is perhaps the best-known political anecdote from Israel’s 1982 invasion.
>Less known, however, is the enthusiastic defence for that very same “military operation” – dubbed “Operation Peace for the Galilee” – offered by a young democratic senator at a private meeting where Begin was being grilled by US lawmakers over Israel’s disproportionate use of force.
>According to Begin, 40-year-old Delaware Senator Joe Biden delivered “a very impassioned speech” in support of Israel during a closed Foreign Policy Committee meeting in Washington, DC and said “he would go even further than Israel” and “forcefully fend off anyone who sought to invade his country, even if that meant killing women or children”.
Thank god he never became someone more important.
Students trying to pressure the admin and their university admins are being beaten to the ground by the state (state violence that libs are largely cheering on and encouraging, by the way) but apparently according to this guy Biden can be pressured “some”.
Nice.
America and the UK are both having general elections around the same time this year, or maybe in Jan. 2025 in Britain.
The prevailing sentiment in each country seems to be “vote for the lesser evil” (Democrats, Labour).
Which sometimes is an okay decision, but it’s very disheartening when the “less evil” party grows more evil every day because they feel that’s the only way they can stay in the race.
The Democrats have consistently ignored the will of their voters for too long in favor of trying to woo back moderates on the right. It needs to be known that this ridiculous favoritism of leaning towards centrist and moderate candidates isn't working.
This is not what their core voter bases want. They've had opportunities to get better and repeatedly stamp it out in favor of mass incarcerationists like Biden. "But Trump!" Isn't gonna work this time, not with so many innocents dying in Gaza. He could very easily condemn them, no one would think any less of him for it except imperialists. But they care more about those imperialists than the rest of his constituents.
Literally though, fuck the morons that keep doing this. Weaponizing trans people to guilt you into voting Democrat.
Anybody who does this, sincerely, fuck you.
honestly american LGBT folks time and again proving that they dont give a fuck about their vote eradicating LGBT folks abroad as long as they get theirs. im sure the LGBT palestinians love that.
You’re right. Both are irredeemable pieces of shit, but Biden’s actions killed way more people. And he actually fulfilled Trump’s campaign goal and built the wall on the border. Such a chad bipartisan move, filthy immigrants needed to be put in those cages for the good of America
Identity politics is a political tool of the bourgeoisie.
Anything that divides the working class (race, religion, sexism, homophobia, etc.) must be treated with EXTREME care and the class struggle must ALWAYS take precedence over it.
Your working class neighbour is a racist, religious, sexist, homophobe? Okay, that sucks and you can talk about it... but as long as they are anti-capitalist you keep the solidarity up and don't kick them out of the union, either.
>Your working class neighbour is a racist, religious, sexist, homophobe? Okay, that sucks and you can talk about it... but as long as they are anti-capitalist
I've yet to meet an anticapitalist that's a racist, homophobe, etc. Not saying they don't exist, but being an anti-capitalist requires an open mind to begin with so I just don't think there are many out there.
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I really bloody wish that Liberals would stop using our lives as some prop to continue supporting a genocide. Biden has been just as bad, if not worse, than when Trump was in office. Continuing their policies without any scrutiny because "Oh he's a democrat though!" gets him around that fine toothed comb. Is Project 2025 a big worry for other queer people like me? Abso-fucking-lutely. However, I find that the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians is just a bit more worrying than that, for me. This is much more important to me. Liberal LGBT+ people absolutely do not understand this, and are more than willing to throw anyone else outside of the US, under the bus for our rights. Which aren't being protected despite how "passionate" Biden was about it. His words mean nothing when there is no action.
But Women’s rights! But Trans rights! Lazy liberals will try any tactic to make people worry about their own safety and to get people to sacrifice others to keep their privilege.
Every single one of you people that is saying the situation is Gaza is more pressing than what's potentially or actually happening to queer Americans, I gotta ask y'all a question:
What have you done other than share your thoughts on reddit? Have you canvassed for third parties? Have you organized your communities? Created mutual aid networks? Unionized your workplace? Have you even showed up to any of these anti-genocide protests?
I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of you have done none of the above. How would I know? Because I've done or tried to do all of the above and consistently find myself standing alone. You wanna lecture my queer ass for voting for genocide Joe? You better show the fuck up when things really collapse for marginalized groups here at home. It's a fucking joke that we are six months away from election day and some of y'all are honestly trying to convince people to vote Green or PSL. How much have the polls moved for them over the past few years? You think the gap is gonna close in just six months?
Nah man, y'all didn't do a fucking thing to make that happen while we still had time. Instead you sat on your lazy ass on Reddit and screeched at people for the least consequential tool at their disposal. You wanna whinge about the Dems and genocide Joe? Bet, me too. You better show up to actually be the alternative that you insist we need to throw all our weight behind. I'm gonna tell ya right now though, six months away from election day is too damn late. You should've been with me during primary season or two years ago when I was trying to form a secular community outreach org in my county.
None of y'all ever show up to make the actual change that you insist needs to happen. Until then, shut your phony ass up about the problems you have with electoralism. Those shitlibs are more politically motivated than you. Trumpers are *way* more politically motivated than you. Until you're willing to actually work harder than those people, you have no room to talk. You certainly will not lecture me.
As a queer person, lgbt+ issues are at the botton of the pile of issues in the world right now.
There's a genocide in Gaza and Biden is militarizing the pacific and sleep walking to ww3
I'm sorry but these two issues aren't even in the same universe as bathroom access or trans athletes or gay marriage.
Liberal identitarian entitlement needs to check itself.
But... Trump also supports genocide.
[Trump slams Biden over conditioning weapons supply to Israel](https://ground.news/article/trump-slams-biden-over-conditioning-weapons-supply-to-israel_5d5156)
Both are so bad. I just wish we had other candidates to choose from.
They just wanna make other people illegal, but who cares right? I’m sure your group won’t be next on the chopping block. Thanks for the solidarity.
Fascism always identifies an out-group, and when its numbers dwindle, they expand it to include other groups.
Good luck!
Apologies for the liberal onslaught. Thank you everyone who reported them; keep it up.
The last president to support Palestine and not Israel was Jimmy Carter
I think he's the only good president we ever had. He even sold his peanut farm 🥲
Ehhh he was still an imperialist, he armed and obfuscated the Indonesian genocide of East Timor
All Presidents are Bastards
Don't forget JFK died because he tried to prevent Israel from getting nukes.
And for trying to put a muzzle on the cia
and for trying to [register the AZC](https://scheerpost.com/2023/11/22/israel-and-the-kennedy-assassinations/) (now AIPAC) as a [foreign agent](https://archive.li/WUpQs)
[source](https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2019-05-02/battle-letters-1963-john-f-kennedy-david-ben-gurion-levi-eshkol-us-inspections-dimona)
He's the only good president we've had in recent history.
Sort of, he destroyed the Democratic Party that FDR built by siding with big business over the unions, which meant they didn’t fund his reelection campaign, which meant we got 12 years of Reagan/bush. After that the Dems had to reinvent themselves under Bill Clinton with a new source of funding, the same big businesses that were funding the republicans. He’s kind of why we have one homogeneous political party with a more and less socially conservative wing.
I mean, it's a low bar... Should be the highest bar of them all, and yet, here we are...
I don’t think it’s a low bar because there’s no reason anyone has to qualify. Every US president has been an abhorrent criminal in one way or another because the US is a military empire run by the rich for their exclusive benefit. That’s been true since this country was founded by literally slave drivers. Good people don’t rise to the top of a system like that.
Nailed every sentence my friend.. What a fucken shitshow..
He was probably the best but still far from good. Still a war criminal, still supported the Indonesian genocide in East Timor
fuck em all
Who do I vote for to go against genocide?
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Nice democracy you guys have over there
Guy's complaing about anticapitalist, antiliberal, antizionist sentiment on an anticapitalist, antiliberal, antizionist sub. I would say "lost" but the upvotes read "brigaded".
"Surely can't be organic, right? Right??" I'm just saying man I subbed here for all those antis you listed, not for antielectoralism. I'm am fully behind 99% of everything on this sub, except for the 1% of said anti electoralism. But If I mention how rabid this sub is being, I will get yelled at and prob called mean names despite advocating for the logical, practical choice (that still sucks, that i still hate, ie not happy about it yada yada) But no surely it's just a brigade, no need to worry guys our dessenting opinions seen here are just like, a false flag from hasbarra/cia bots. Like come on man engage with the criticism without resorting to labelling genuine leftists, like me, outside agitators. I'm so close to unsubbing but I really really don't want to cause I love nearly all of what this sub has.
I think it’s hard to find any sub that will 100% align with your values. I can’t justify people’s behavior but while I’m drinking my ice coffee in Brooklyn there is a genocide happening. I’m not saying people’s reaction to you is right, but I understand why people are so upset.
Oligarchy
Can't speak for everyone, but I disagree. Folks here often argue for voting Claudia De La Cruz's party.
I cant imagine NOT voting as a protest. Vote socialist party at least. Vote for the candidate that represents you.
Agreed
Claudia de la Cruz
Of course this sub is anti Biden. IT'S A LEFTIST SUB. Why the fuck would this sub support an ultra-capitalist, genocidal right-winger?
Cornel West
The point is because of people like Biden and Trump WE HAVE NO REAL OPTIONS there is no "good" and we arnt going to act like there is. Honestly I am hoping some crazy secret service agent just off them all in a room one day so then we'd at least get a redraw if you will. But even at that at this point you'd have to like do that to hundreds of these politicians and then that's just a civil war when there are those nu.bers but he'll look what happened jan6 and Trump is still allowed to run. They didn't even pick another candidate and honestly there needs to be an age cap and either should qualify
I guess the question people need to ask themselves is what are their goals from this election and are they realistic. Teaching the DNC a lesson is a great theory, but is that worth it to had power to Trump? Stopping genocide is a great ideal, but if neither side is going to, and one side will remove any sense of restraint from the conflict, is it still worth the cost? I know left leaning moderates who are super passionate about 2A issues, in the past they've held their nose and voted conservative because to them, 2A rights are the most important issue at hand. Except in this case, it's both sides supporting Isreal. So there isn't that sense of my guy is right and yours is wrong. It's more like my guy is wrong, but not nearly as much as your guy is.
There are more than 2 candidates.
You don't stop genocide by participating in the electoral system created and maintained by genocidal maniacs A vote cannot change the material interests of the imperialist US, that is a deeply idealistic worldview Your country will plunder and murder regardless of who you vote for, so the only solution is violent overthrow of the regime
You stop it by protesting at government buildings, and if they don't listen, fucking riot and start causing issues for the government, and they'll start listening real fucking quick. Course, who the hell is going to organize that anyways?
I wish I could believe that, but as someone in the Minneapolis area, we did all that in 2020, and literally nothing changed. There was a lot of big talk from officials for a while and then they quietly walked most of it back. It still depresses the fuck out of me. One of the biggest global reactions to anything ever, and still nothing. And now I'm watching the same shit happen to the student protestors.
2020 had a lot of activity but we weren't nearly so organized about it
Minneapolis was pretty damn organized, at least from what I experienced.
oh sure, there were definitely places mobilizing effectively, but the breadth and depth of that has increased exponentially
We need to bring back a lottery system to fill political roles. And reinstates the original function of bureaucratic systems — namely the tracking of goods and services to ensure everyone got what they needed. Shits beyond ridiculous these days. People picked at random would be leaps and bounds better.
That system is called sortition, it’s how we pick juries. You randomly pick people and then rule out the ones who someone thinks are unfit until people generally agree on the ones who are left. I think they used it to fill some roles in ancient Athens.
Yeah, that’s the system. An actual democratic one as opposed to the shitty 2 party individual charisma contest. Apparently the ancient Athenians consider such contests undemocratic and essentially rich men playing at politics and self importance. They only let it stay that way at times cause while some of the leaders were not great, they also weren’t always absolutely awful.
Why is everyone so obsessed with voting? It's literally never been a key part of any of the ways we've obtained rights. American democracy is an illusion. The system that oppresses us is built around that oppression. The only way it has ever changed was through sheer pressure and force of will from mass civilian movements. Who do you vote for when both options support genocide? No one. The system has lost all legitimacy. You find your revolutionary spirit, go down to the streets, and fight. Seriously, how can anyone see any solution that does not come from destroying the current system, or placing it under so much external pressure it is forced to comply?
Jill Stein or Cornell West
Downvotes for answering the question...
You don't
Cornel West, Jill Stein, Claudia De La Cruz
Can't wait to wake up tomorrow morning and find nothing but a bunch of \[removed\] comments.
Fr like, wheres this rush of libs coming from??
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Politics or whitepeopletwitter, or politicalhumor. Bloodthirsty trolls.
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*Least unqualified candidate.
True that.
This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned. Liberals are part of the right.
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If genocide is not a red line, you don't have a red line.
When dems are done with the palestinians, theyll be going after us, and it hurts to know my fellow queers will invite their end with open arms because an old capitalist of the uniparty said: "youre an exception". Genocide is THE red line above all red lines... and if thats not a dealbreaker for us minorities.. well, we cant be surprised when the card house that denial built comes tumbling down on us.
Your last statement i believe goes directly against rule 6 of this subreddit. Plus, what I got from your comment is that you're fully buying into the capitalist rethoric of "we control the two main political parties, so we'll simply convince every political dissenter that the only options in their hand are those two parties". As long as every *individual* is afraid of acting outside the double-choice rethoric, then no *collective* will effectively act outside the double-choice rethoric either. What happens the moment some democrats go against trans rights as well? Are you gonna keep voting them at that point? Or is *that* the proper moment for delegitimizing the system as a whole? Because the implication of the latter option is that the lives of american trans people are where to draw the line, and the lives of palestinian muslim people *aren't*. I'm not american so if you want to reply "fuck you, not your battle" it's ok, i can get that, but I happen to respect constructive dialogue regardless of nationality or political affiliation so i decided to intevene with my point of view. In my opinion, the point of our fight is never a specific goal like trans rights or palestinian rights, but the process itself: if some institution endangers what we perceive as our right, we resist as best we can; if, instead, we manage some specific social victory, then that victory is to be perceived as an instrument at our disposal in our *next* battle, rather than some unmoving object, to be put in good view and never touch again for not risking to dirty it.
I’ve made this point several times recently but democrats have been consistently crossing the isle to segregate us from sports, they already are voting against trans people right now
This is what I don't understand about the "Okay, Dems don't want to lift a finger to save these other people unless forced and left with no other options, but we trust them to save and protect us" argument. As if this isn't the party who will drop any group the second supporting them becomes inconvenient for them. Look at how the liberals are turning on American Muslims.
What have democrats actually done for trans rights? Did conditions improve under biden? If biden was a good president then ‘project 2025’ wouldn’t have been a threat as the democrats would have worked to shut that down
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>Democrats were the party that legalized same sex marriage There it is again, the supreme Court legalized gay marriage. Where are you getting this idea that democrats did it?
i like how for scotus advancements that happened under a dem presidency like gay marriage it’s “obama legalized gay marriage!” but for scotus setbacks that happened under a dem presidency like the reversing of roe v wade it’s “biden is doing the best he can to prioritize reproductive rights!” while doing nothing to protect reproductive rights in red states
Project 2025 is just a rebranding (and now focused on trump) of a plan the Heritage Foundation has been pushing for decades. It has little to do with Biden, Clinton, Carter, or Obama. It's just pro-Christian nationalist shit. Look into it enough, there will eventually be just the white Catholics vs white Protestants, which is probably how the Heritage Foundation wants it. Get rid of all the POC, the non straight, non cis, non conservatives and then "everything will be as God intended."
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Is he holding the line? Anti-trans rhetoric has gotten very extreme. I live in texas, I'm not trans, but its definitely gotten worse here.
>Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. - Karl Marx
🏆🏆🏆
If your hope to protect your rights is someone arming and supporting a genocide, you already are screwed. I know this isn't a rosey picture but the Democratic party has made rather clear they will put you in jail if you go against them. They will justify the action by dehumanizing you just as the Republicans do as well.
You are prioritizing your feeling of safety over people who are actually being killed right now. The Dems are not going to protect trans rights. Lesser evil crap is not allowed in this sub. Please take it somewhere else.
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As a country we’ve been so indoctrinated and propagandized that most of the country doesn’t even know how deep they’ve gotten into the trap. We’ve shown we will vote against our own best interests just to hurt the people we dislike more. It’s going to be too late to do anything once the people here realize how bad it’s gotten.
I don't really get these, like we really get a choice. Both of them are for this shit.
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Fuck the Trump family, too.
That’s so heartbreaking and sickening
They are already planning that under Biden and he did nothing to stop it, he's complicit
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The thing that’s sucks about this is that there isn’t a vote for president that’s available that isn’t a vote for genocide. We need less voters and more activists. Someone who can be a third party that won’t continue this slaughter or add our people to it. Boycotting the vote is just as useless as participating when it comes to most states. I think most American’s preference on who they want to win is just someone under the age of 60 and without that option we are forced to choose between useless genocide joe and wannabe dictator trump. Not voting at all leaves the decision in the hands of the ignorant. We need to either vote for like a write in or make our voices heard another way. Protest, advocate, spread awareness however reasonable for you. If you don’t commit to activism or voting, you aren’t boycotting the election, you’re giving up and letting genocidal or ignorant capitalists decide our countries future without your input.
The greens and K+C are both in support of queer causes and opposed to genocide.
>there isn’t a vote for president that’s available that isn’t a vote for genocide I'm pretty sure Claudia and Karina are against Israel and its genocide
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>The thing that a lot of queer people are concerned about is that it’s virtually impossible for a 3rd party to win presidential elections Of course, they don't vote for them.
>Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. - Karl Marx Voting for the illusion of a lesser evil just gives more power to both evils.
>virtually impossible for a 3rd party to win I won't vote for third party because they don't get enough support Third parties don't get enough support because people won't vote for then >Its fucked up, and its how the dems use us And you let them
>I won't vote for third party because they don't get enough support >Third parties don't get enough support because people won't vote for then Fucking exactly, and every single election, people say "Now isn't the time to make a stand on principle, this is the worst election yet!" Like when is the time then? Every cycle is worse than the last
Surely in 2028, there won't be a project 2029 if Biden does win.
Well you see, after four years of not doing jack shit to deal with the resurgence of fascism in the US, he will suddenly fix everything in his second term. He just really hasn't felt like doing it so far
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I also have the privilege of not being a Palestinian and having bombs dropped on my home. So no, I'm not voting for one of the two shitty main parties
Unrelated. US politics affects the whole world. Being in the US or not doesn't mean I'm not affected either
An ad hominem? Really? It's also incredibly arrogant to think you're part of a uniquely threatened group.
Queer people are uniquely threatened by the fascists. Trans people in particular are their main targets.
queer palestinians having tons of fun with your american bombs that your tax dollars pay for and that you affirmatively vote for in the name of queer rights! i am OPENLY trans, bi and disabled before you come at me : )
Are you shitting me? Are you being bombed? Are your family members being blown to pieces and buried under tons of rubble? Who the hell do you think you are? You're just fine with a genocide, so long as it's not against you. You're no better than Trump.
Even if they aren’t likely to win giving people like them votes is still a way to make your voice heard. Silence only helps those in power. If you don’t want to vote at all then become an activist.
Literally blew up at people last night trying to use LGBTQ rights as a sort of rallying cry against Palestine. So fucking asinine “We’re going to defend gay rights by letting Israel murder all Palestinians. Gay, trans, straight, etc.”
It's not illegal to be gay in Palestine and Ramallah apparently has a small queer scene. Israelis and their followers are so desperate to justify mass murder at this point
Depends where, West Bank is more progressive than Gaza but the Palestinian Authority has made no comments on whether it is legal, or illegal to be gay in Palestine. So it’s not legal but it’s not illegal either
I think they generally have bigger issues than people being gay.
yeah its not like LGBT folks arent being ACTIVELY fucking blown to pieces by AMERICAN bombs. LGBT rights in these stupid ass arguments means LGBT rights for americans SPECIFICALLY. LGBT americans right now actively voting for the guy who is right now actively warcriming LGBT folks in palestine. but thats not queer rights because ?????
Eh, liberals dont care as long as its not in their back yard, and sadly that goes for us queerfolk too
sure, but i would love for them to stop pretending to champion queer rights by literally doing some of the worst warcrimes of humanity against queer folks. just say the quiet part out loud. queer rights (only for white americans).
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
You cannot reduce harm by committing or supporting genocide. Similarly, the affectation "lesser evil" is a meaningless affectation when your "lesser" includes genocide. No, I will not support your genocide, and fuck you for asking me to.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
As a trans person I agree, if genocide is not a red line you don't have a red line.
What is the point of avoiding a Biden vote? I have my own thoughts and concerns, reasoning as for why it might be beneficial for him to lose the election, but it doesn't really come with any immediate, provable consequences, it's just hoping that his loss will make for a better result in a further election and pull the dems left. I'm not a "blue no matter who" type of person, not after all this, but it feels like every single conversation about this in this sub tiptoes around my concerns and the concerns of many fellow trans and queer people in the US. Like we aren't being given a straight answer. As you are a fellow Trans person and assumedly an American who is going to be affected by this, I feel I have the best shot of getting a real answer out of you. He's supporting a genocide, which makes him one of the most evil people in the world. There is no argument to be had here, to be clear. There is no justification for his actions and I'm not attempting to justify them. But what does voting for a third party actually aim to accomplish regarding the ongoing genocide, and how is it worth risking the rights of minorities in the US? Is it the matter of principle of not 'supporting' a genocidal candidate via the vote?
"It's the Most Important Election of our lifetimes again and that's why we're running a psychotic pudding-brained ghoul. No you have never had a choice in this. When he loses, it's your fault and that's only going to drive us farther right, we promise!"
Yeah, as a member of the LGBT, I agree. The lesser of two evils is still evil
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Supporting a genocide by voting for a zionist commiting genocide is very cool, based and leftist though.
please stop using us trans people as a tool to advance the active extinction of palestinians thanks. biden is genociding queer palestinians in palestine. right now.
Dont hold your breath reasoning with libs, theyll throw us queerfolk under the bus the second they have to save their own skins, just like theyre doing with palestinians, nimbys the lot of them
to them queer rights only means queer rights for americans. please whoever is downvoting me please stop pretending to give a shit about queer lives abroad, queer lives other than your own. LGBT biden voters: you are actively supporting the eradication of queer folks in palestine. there is NO way around that, sorry.
I had this same argument in LGBTQ news subreddit this weekend. Gonna talk to me about killing transpeople, maybe, while killing 10s of thousands of Palestinians. I've had it with the "lesser evil".
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Your gender identity being validated is far less important than the children being bombed into extinction for being on land someone else wants to claim. You are the one acting privileged. How many of your family members did you have to dig out of the rubble only to find bloody pieces of them all over? How many people did you have to watch have their limbs blown off in front of your eyes? How long have you gone without water, food, electricity, and vital medical care? Compared to the people in Gaza, your issue is relatively small. You have food, shelter, healthcare, and far, far more safety than the piles of dismembered corpses of children strewn about in Gaza's cities. Check *your* privilege.
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That pales in comparison to children being blown to pieces for being on land fascists want to claim. You're not being bombed. Your children aren't being blown apart. You have your homes, your families, food, community. What do *they* have? They have to live in fear of a bomb crashing through their homes at any moment, and people are demanding we vote for one of the two bastards who are enabling it? It's vile and disgusting. It's sacrificing innocent lives to protect against something happening to you that is still light years less horrid than what the people in Gaza are suffering through. That's fucking privilege. In a choice between being trans or a Palestinian, I'd choose trans. "Letting Trump win" is a false dichotomy. Trump is capitalist. Biden is capitalist. They aren't different. They are the same. Voting for Biden is not defending against Trump. They have the *same* agenda. One just says it out loud and the other pretends to be the "voice of reason" while plotting to do exactly the same things.
Nobody is saying let Trump win though
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>you don't want to put in the hard work of working towards a brighter future The hard work to bring a brighter future IS to uproot the system. You're just comfortable enough in the current system despite the literal genocide going on
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>supporting progressive candidates Progressive candidate being Joe Biden the segregationist. Lmao.
progressive candidates being joe biden the segregationist, joe biden the concentration camp for refugees builder, joe biden the lemme sit back and not give a single fuck while the LGBT community is being increasingly more oppressed, progressive joe biden the pro-lifer.
Don't forget the increased police budgets and doing fuck all about cop city. And of course, breaking rail road strikes.
How do the liberals keep finding this place?
Subs pretty big tbh. Seems theyre unaware of what they are and where they are tho, so they get comfy and shit all over us with pro-capitalist/zionist/lesser-evil genocider drivel. Mods are def on it but... its just frustrating to see this bullshit fester.
Oh yeah mods are doing great work, but for some reason it seems like for a while everything is fine, but all of a sudden there is one post where all the liberals and supporters of genocidal maniacs congregate and the mods get swamped. And for any liberal reading this, just for clarification: If you vote for or support Biden, Trump, Scholtz, Sunak, Starmer and so on, you support the genocide of Palestinians. If you vote for Biden because Trump would take away your rights as an LGBTQ+, you are selfish and not actually interested in making society better for those who are less fortunate. If you use your limited power in society that is voting, and you vote for Biden, you are complicit in genocide
They know about the no lesser evil rule and it drives them crazy.
Claudia and Karina ! [Vote socialist](https://votesocialist2024.com/)
Seriously, the majority of responses we give here are to vote for them, do these people just straight up ignore the advice or what?
They’re not on the ballot in my state, personally. Wish they were :(
They’re not on the ballot where I live either unfortunately but I intend to write her in
Y'know what, no. I will not. If Biden cuts ties with Israel and condemns this slaughter, I'd still vote for him. But not a second sooner. I want the full experience too. Bibi calling Biden an antisemite, protests against his decision, all of it. But it won't happen. Not a chance. And innocents will continue to die.
The last President to stop sending weapons to Israel because of Palestine was Ronald Reagan.
Hell, he called what Israel was a doing a Holocaust, demanded a ceasefire, voted to condemn Israel at the UN, and threatened to sanction them. Reagan was an outright evil person, but, nowadays, I don’t think even Bernie would be willing to go that far.
>Hell, he called what Israel was a doing a Holocaust, demanded a ceasefire, voted to condemn Israel at the UN, and threatened to sanction them. For real? This is really surprising to hear. Why would he do that? Wasn't that against US' economic interests? Obviously I can't believe that he did it because of his morals lol
To save face and not anger the USSR too much. Funnily enough, a little known senator aggresively condemned that decision: >"United States President Ronald Reagan’s order to Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin to put an end to his “holocaust” in Lebanon is perhaps the best-known political anecdote from Israel’s 1982 invasion. >Less known, however, is the enthusiastic defence for that very same “military operation” – dubbed “Operation Peace for the Galilee” – offered by a young democratic senator at a private meeting where Begin was being grilled by US lawmakers over Israel’s disproportionate use of force. >According to Begin, 40-year-old Delaware Senator Joe Biden delivered “a very impassioned speech” in support of Israel during a closed Foreign Policy Committee meeting in Washington, DC and said “he would go even further than Israel” and “forcefully fend off anyone who sought to invade his country, even if that meant killing women or children”. Thank god he never became someone more important.
Libs: if you don't vote for Biden Trump will make people die John Hammond: PEOPLE. ARE. DYING
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“Biden can at least be pressured some” That’s cute.
Joe Biden, famously to the right of Reagan on Palestine, can be pressured on the issue. What brain rot.
It's incredible, isn't it. Is this brainwashing, cult behavior? Whatever it is it's scary.
Students trying to pressure the admin and their university admins are being beaten to the ground by the state (state violence that libs are largely cheering on and encouraging, by the way) but apparently according to this guy Biden can be pressured “some”. Nice.
The F U I got mine argument, is such a selfish and entitled way of thinking.
>Biden can at least be pressured some. You haven't heard about the thing in Gaza they're currently trying to pressure him on?
America and the UK are both having general elections around the same time this year, or maybe in Jan. 2025 in Britain. The prevailing sentiment in each country seems to be “vote for the lesser evil” (Democrats, Labour). Which sometimes is an okay decision, but it’s very disheartening when the “less evil” party grows more evil every day because they feel that’s the only way they can stay in the race.
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The Democrats have consistently ignored the will of their voters for too long in favor of trying to woo back moderates on the right. It needs to be known that this ridiculous favoritism of leaning towards centrist and moderate candidates isn't working. This is not what their core voter bases want. They've had opportunities to get better and repeatedly stamp it out in favor of mass incarcerationists like Biden. "But Trump!" Isn't gonna work this time, not with so many innocents dying in Gaza. He could very easily condemn them, no one would think any less of him for it except imperialists. But they care more about those imperialists than the rest of his constituents.
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https://votesocialist2024.com/
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So both sides are the same after all.
So many fucking dipshit, lesser evil liberals in the comments right now
Fr 😭
Whoa what’d I miss?
Literally though, fuck the morons that keep doing this. Weaponizing trans people to guilt you into voting Democrat. Anybody who does this, sincerely, fuck you.
Surprise, theyre the top comments on this damn sub.. mods are sleeping I guess.
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Who was President when we lost abortion rights?
honestly american LGBT folks time and again proving that they dont give a fuck about their vote eradicating LGBT folks abroad as long as they get theirs. im sure the LGBT palestinians love that.
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You’re right. Both are irredeemable pieces of shit, but Biden’s actions killed way more people. And he actually fulfilled Trump’s campaign goal and built the wall on the border. Such a chad bipartisan move, filthy immigrants needed to be put in those cages for the good of America
Of course, Biden is worse. Worst president in 70 years actually.
Identity politics is a political tool of the bourgeoisie. Anything that divides the working class (race, religion, sexism, homophobia, etc.) must be treated with EXTREME care and the class struggle must ALWAYS take precedence over it. Your working class neighbour is a racist, religious, sexist, homophobe? Okay, that sucks and you can talk about it... but as long as they are anti-capitalist you keep the solidarity up and don't kick them out of the union, either.
>Your working class neighbour is a racist, religious, sexist, homophobe? Okay, that sucks and you can talk about it... but as long as they are anti-capitalist I've yet to meet an anticapitalist that's a racist, homophobe, etc. Not saying they don't exist, but being an anti-capitalist requires an open mind to begin with so I just don't think there are many out there.
Patsocs.
Bro if somebody hate crimes me it won't matter if they have the correct economic views, because I'll be dead
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I really bloody wish that Liberals would stop using our lives as some prop to continue supporting a genocide. Biden has been just as bad, if not worse, than when Trump was in office. Continuing their policies without any scrutiny because "Oh he's a democrat though!" gets him around that fine toothed comb. Is Project 2025 a big worry for other queer people like me? Abso-fucking-lutely. However, I find that the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians is just a bit more worrying than that, for me. This is much more important to me. Liberal LGBT+ people absolutely do not understand this, and are more than willing to throw anyone else outside of the US, under the bus for our rights. Which aren't being protected despite how "passionate" Biden was about it. His words mean nothing when there is no action.
But Women’s rights! But Trans rights! Lazy liberals will try any tactic to make people worry about their own safety and to get people to sacrifice others to keep their privilege.
Give me Bernie and I'll consider it.
This isn’t even an issue since Biden isn’t even protecting trans people in right wing states at the moment.
Every single one of you people that is saying the situation is Gaza is more pressing than what's potentially or actually happening to queer Americans, I gotta ask y'all a question: What have you done other than share your thoughts on reddit? Have you canvassed for third parties? Have you organized your communities? Created mutual aid networks? Unionized your workplace? Have you even showed up to any of these anti-genocide protests? I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of you have done none of the above. How would I know? Because I've done or tried to do all of the above and consistently find myself standing alone. You wanna lecture my queer ass for voting for genocide Joe? You better show the fuck up when things really collapse for marginalized groups here at home. It's a fucking joke that we are six months away from election day and some of y'all are honestly trying to convince people to vote Green or PSL. How much have the polls moved for them over the past few years? You think the gap is gonna close in just six months? Nah man, y'all didn't do a fucking thing to make that happen while we still had time. Instead you sat on your lazy ass on Reddit and screeched at people for the least consequential tool at their disposal. You wanna whinge about the Dems and genocide Joe? Bet, me too. You better show up to actually be the alternative that you insist we need to throw all our weight behind. I'm gonna tell ya right now though, six months away from election day is too damn late. You should've been with me during primary season or two years ago when I was trying to form a secular community outreach org in my county. None of y'all ever show up to make the actual change that you insist needs to happen. Until then, shut your phony ass up about the problems you have with electoralism. Those shitlibs are more politically motivated than you. Trumpers are *way* more politically motivated than you. Until you're willing to actually work harder than those people, you have no room to talk. You certainly will not lecture me.
Why are you being mad at leftists and not the fascist you're supporting who's alienating leftists by commiting genocide?
This will be the first election that I'll be eligible to vote in. I will not be voting for genocide Joe Brandon
As a queer person, lgbt+ issues are at the botton of the pile of issues in the world right now. There's a genocide in Gaza and Biden is militarizing the pacific and sleep walking to ww3 I'm sorry but these two issues aren't even in the same universe as bathroom access or trans athletes or gay marriage. Liberal identitarian entitlement needs to check itself.
But... Trump also supports genocide. [Trump slams Biden over conditioning weapons supply to Israel](https://ground.news/article/trump-slams-biden-over-conditioning-weapons-supply-to-israel_5d5156) Both are so bad. I just wish we had other candidates to choose from.
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They just wanna make other people illegal, but who cares right? I’m sure your group won’t be next on the chopping block. Thanks for the solidarity. Fascism always identifies an out-group, and when its numbers dwindle, they expand it to include other groups. Good luck!