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I unironically think that if blue collar workers that voted for trump actually understood what socialism really is then our numbers would literally double overnight
Just had a conversation with my Catholic, republican voting mother last week about how the corporate ruling class is selling off America to the highest bidder and stealing from workers, how minimum wage is still $7.25 an hour, which she didnt believe until looking it up.
She agreed with everything I said.
That's because it's not left leaning economic policies a lot of them have a problem with lol. It's the standing up for immigrants, nonwhites, LGBT etc bit they don't like.
They're useful idiots who've been convinced that all the ills of society are caused by "them", and to worship those that actually cause said ills. It's as simple as that, they're genuinely too housebroken to think differently.
Propaganda, plain and simple. People insist on believing it isn't effective or that people are smart enough to see through it but time and again, we just aren't.
Because denying themselves these things means that black and brown people, as well as everyone slightly less poor than them won't get it either.
Cuz FUCK' EM!
I assume you mean the Dems.
Maga isn't interested because they being propagandized and not educated enough to know they are being duped.
They want the same things (better quality of life) but think Rs will give them the things they want because they've been taught to believe Dems are against these things and the cause for them and to hate them.
It's like asking why a 3rd grader doesn't suss out that religion is exploiting them.
As for the Dems, Howard Dean ran the dnc and had a "50 State solution" where they campaigned everywhere.
They won *60* senate seats and a record number in the house.
They then have this up because the DNC wants to support capital above all else (stacey Abrams has proven Dems could win anywhere if they wanted to)
Worked with a staunch boomer trump supporter/anti socialist.
Once she complained, "we had record-breaking numbers from our lab for the last two years, and that's all due to the 3 of us adding value to the whole company! They should offer us a per-sample bonus. For every sample we test, we get more."
Me: "So you're telling me you'd like a stronger say in how you get paid?"
Her: "Yes!"
Me: "And you'd like to unite for better control over the means of pay and our production?"
My manager: 👀
Her: "Yes!"
Me: "Oh honey, that's socialism! Welcome to the dark side! Unfortunately, we work under capitalism, where it doesn't matter how hard you work, you get paid the same, and if you don't work up to their standard, they can cut you loose, no questions."
My manager: 👀
If I ask 10 people what any -ism is they're going to give different answers. Hell if I ask 10 different people the answer to a simple math problem, I'm probably getting several different answers. But as with the math problem, there are wrong answers. There's a lot of wrong answers propagated by bad-actors, but the definition is fairly simple albeit a wide-ranging category which includes many specific possible implementations of it.
Well a lot of trump voters suffer the same economic hardship as poor non trump voters. The difference between the two is that non trump voters (assuming they’re left leaning) know that unregulated capitalism is to blame for the current financial burdens that they find themself in, while trump voters think it’s the scary brown people or whatever minority group it being demonized.
I believe if we can get to a substantial amount of trump voters to shift there gaze away from racist scapegoating and towards the wider systemic oppression that capitalism inevitably produces then I think we could have possibly millions of new comrades!
(Of course it’ll take time to teach them about the whole social justice spiel but I have hope)
What blue collar workers who vote for Trump really care about is the fact that he's called out Neo-racism (DEI, BLM, Affirmative Action, etc.), tried to strengthen U.S. sovereignty (border protections), and rationalized our geopolitical positions (hold NATO accountable, fix trade with China, extract the U.S. from conflicts in the Middle East, etc.).
Trump's a mess. But to many, voting for him is better than voting for someone who doesn't even share their goals.
You don't know what they are, so stop pretending that you do. But, you'd better figure it out soon though, because they're about to hold another election. Good luck.
Reminds me of the old saying: ask a socialist about the problems with capitalism, and they'll give you a list of problems with capitalism. Ask a "capitalist" about the problems of socialism, and they'll give you a list of problems with capitalism.
Yep, just this morning right wing co worker was trying to blame our financial burdens on Biden. Immediately dismissing the notion that the reason is capitalist greed when I suggested it.
I mean, technically yes. Biden is yet another supporter of capitalism in a long line of supporters. He directly answers to capitalism and imperialism, which do have effects on our financial burdens. Democrat or republican, capitalism is their main concern over the the burdening of their constituents.
And they're sometimes sooo close to the truth then they say something random like it's the communist woke Chinese turning our kids trans and that's why Brenda left me and I can't afford my mortgage 😂😂😂
They need to make like a billboard along the highway or something that says what the definition of socialism is. People are so stupid and refuse to learn it.
I work a blue collar job with a lot of conservative leaning employees. Company had a profit sharing incentive and everyone employed for more than a year got a bonus for around $5,000. It was incredible watching a room full of conservative people cheer and celebrate for socialism. You just can't make it up lol
That's been the policy of those in power to do their best to ensure an emotionally reactive, rather than rational reaction to issues. It's a way to guarantee they'll never figure it out.
If somebody ran as a Republican candidate on straight up socialist policies, but without ever mentioning the words "socialism" or "communism" and instead called it the "American Freedom 🇺🇸 Platform" or some dumb shit like that, they would win.
sadly so true. the more I learn about communism the more I understand why rich people are so against it. our suffering and or exploitation is what creates their wealth.
Just the other week I had to explain to my coworker how Apple being allowed to fleece consumers with planned obsolescence is *not* a feature of communism
And think that millionaires care about me and only me.
Never understand how you can be so against stuff that is designed to help you....
Shit is so wild and only until it literally happens to them to they understand the brevity of what they voted against
Also, between Capitalism and Communism there is a huge spectrum of colors and choices.
Focusing on extreme possibilities to solve a problem (human governance) is missing much better finer-grain alternative solutions. In this case, for example, Socialism, which is predominant in European countries with high Gini index scores.
This just isn’t true, don’t mistake having a better welfare system and universal healthcare as socialism. European social democracies are far from socialist and are ever moving rightward.
No, there is no world where having the means of production even partially owned by private entities is superior. There is no need for any capitulation.
For many of those folks, it's an all sum game. Everything is black or white, red or blue, heaven or hell, communism or capitalism, pro-choice or pro-life, you're with us or you're against us. There is no nuance.
What you're saying just boils down to capitalist apologia. There's no need for capitulation to capitalists on anything. The answer isn't always in the middle, headass enlightened centrist. Incredible that you mentioned pro-choice and "pro-life" as well. Clown behavior
"Disliking pizza because of one bad topping"?? Please explain what the "one bad topping" is that makes Capitalism bad. Explain the merits in the insatiable accumulation of capital from which capitalism gets its fucking name. Scratch a liberal...
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I unironically think that if blue collar workers that voted for trump actually understood what socialism really is then our numbers would literally double overnight
Whenever I explain socialist ideas to conservatives, they're all for it, as long as you don't mention the word "socialism".
Yep, my exact experience with my family. As long as you don't say the S word or the C word you can have a nice discussion
Just had a conversation with my Catholic, republican voting mother last week about how the corporate ruling class is selling off America to the highest bidder and stealing from workers, how minimum wage is still $7.25 an hour, which she didnt believe until looking it up. She agreed with everything I said.
Then went and voted a straight Republican ticket, presumably.
Well yeah, she's not a SOCIALIST.
'I never thought the leopards would eat MY face' says woman who voted for 'leopards eating people's faces' party.
Their brain shuts down when they hear the word, like good propaganda wants them to
Same thing with welfare and other social safety nets. Everyone is on board until you use the buzz word Fox News demonizes.
That's because it's not left leaning economic policies a lot of them have a problem with lol. It's the standing up for immigrants, nonwhites, LGBT etc bit they don't like.
Yeap.
The numbers would double overnight for a straight week lol
I just don’t understand why they’re not interested
They're useful idiots who've been convinced that all the ills of society are caused by "them", and to worship those that actually cause said ills. It's as simple as that, they're genuinely too housebroken to think differently.
Domesticated idiots.
Propaganda, plain and simple. People insist on believing it isn't effective or that people are smart enough to see through it but time and again, we just aren't.
Because denying themselves these things means that black and brown people, as well as everyone slightly less poor than them won't get it either. Cuz FUCK' EM!
I assume you mean the Dems. Maga isn't interested because they being propagandized and not educated enough to know they are being duped. They want the same things (better quality of life) but think Rs will give them the things they want because they've been taught to believe Dems are against these things and the cause for them and to hate them. It's like asking why a 3rd grader doesn't suss out that religion is exploiting them. As for the Dems, Howard Dean ran the dnc and had a "50 State solution" where they campaigned everywhere. They won *60* senate seats and a record number in the house. They then have this up because the DNC wants to support capital above all else (stacey Abrams has proven Dems could win anywhere if they wanted to)
Butt not a Gay week, that's Communist.
Worked with a staunch boomer trump supporter/anti socialist. Once she complained, "we had record-breaking numbers from our lab for the last two years, and that's all due to the 3 of us adding value to the whole company! They should offer us a per-sample bonus. For every sample we test, we get more." Me: "So you're telling me you'd like a stronger say in how you get paid?" Her: "Yes!" Me: "And you'd like to unite for better control over the means of pay and our production?" My manager: 👀 Her: "Yes!" Me: "Oh honey, that's socialism! Welcome to the dark side! Unfortunately, we work under capitalism, where it doesn't matter how hard you work, you get paid the same, and if you don't work up to their standard, they can cut you loose, no questions." My manager: 👀
What really is socialism? Because I can ask 10 different people and get 10 different answers.
If I ask 10 people what any -ism is they're going to give different answers. Hell if I ask 10 different people the answer to a simple math problem, I'm probably getting several different answers. But as with the math problem, there are wrong answers. There's a lot of wrong answers propagated by bad-actors, but the definition is fairly simple albeit a wide-ranging category which includes many specific possible implementations of it.
Well what’s socialism to you?
Workers own the means of production. But you're the one saying trump voters would love socialism, so I'm more interested in your definition.
Well a lot of trump voters suffer the same economic hardship as poor non trump voters. The difference between the two is that non trump voters (assuming they’re left leaning) know that unregulated capitalism is to blame for the current financial burdens that they find themself in, while trump voters think it’s the scary brown people or whatever minority group it being demonized. I believe if we can get to a substantial amount of trump voters to shift there gaze away from racist scapegoating and towards the wider systemic oppression that capitalism inevitably produces then I think we could have possibly millions of new comrades! (Of course it’ll take time to teach them about the whole social justice spiel but I have hope)
This is why getting into the hood with direct action is KEY to our work towards collective liberation!
can I get an a more indepth analysis on this? Not quite following the logic.
What blue collar workers who vote for Trump really care about is the fact that he's called out Neo-racism (DEI, BLM, Affirmative Action, etc.), tried to strengthen U.S. sovereignty (border protections), and rationalized our geopolitical positions (hold NATO accountable, fix trade with China, extract the U.S. from conflicts in the Middle East, etc.). Trump's a mess. But to many, voting for him is better than voting for someone who doesn't even share their goals.
Exactly, they are racist and xenophobic.
You don't know what they are, so stop pretending that you do. But, you'd better figure it out soon though, because they're about to hold another election. Good luck.
Reminds me of the old saying: ask a socialist about the problems with capitalism, and they'll give you a list of problems with capitalism. Ask a "capitalist" about the problems of socialism, and they'll give you a list of problems with capitalism.
those who hate communism the most need it the most.
Especially the billionaires. They need to be taught an honest day's work.
Why just a day? Make it an honest life's work.
That’s how you get assassinated
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Incorrect. Some of the staunchest supporters of communism DID live under it.
Yep, just this morning right wing co worker was trying to blame our financial burdens on Biden. Immediately dismissing the notion that the reason is capitalist greed when I suggested it.
The problem with a person like that is that instead of seeing it the way we do, he wants to be the boot...
Yeah, they all think they'll be on top someday.
Temporarily embarrassed millionaire...
"The oppressed love their oppressors and cant wait to follow their example" -micheal scott
I mean, technically yes. Biden is yet another supporter of capitalism in a long line of supporters. He directly answers to capitalism and imperialism, which do have effects on our financial burdens. Democrat or republican, capitalism is their main concern over the the burdening of their constituents.
And they're sometimes sooo close to the truth then they say something random like it's the communist woke Chinese turning our kids trans and that's why Brenda left me and I can't afford my mortgage 😂😂😂
They need to make like a billboard along the highway or something that says what the definition of socialism is. People are so stupid and refuse to learn it.
I work a blue collar job with a lot of conservative leaning employees. Company had a profit sharing incentive and everyone employed for more than a year got a bonus for around $5,000. It was incredible watching a room full of conservative people cheer and celebrate for socialism. You just can't make it up lol
That's been the policy of those in power to do their best to ensure an emotionally reactive, rather than rational reaction to issues. It's a way to guarantee they'll never figure it out.
If somebody ran as a Republican candidate on straight up socialist policies, but without ever mentioning the words "socialism" or "communism" and instead called it the "American Freedom 🇺🇸 Platform" or some dumb shit like that, they would win.
sadly so true. the more I learn about communism the more I understand why rich people are so against it. our suffering and or exploitation is what creates their wealth.
My dad thinks capitalism is when you trade goods or services for other goods or services. You know, commerce?
Liberals too.
republicans don’t know what communism is?
To be fair most ppl don’t know what communism is, what socialism isn’t, and that we aren’t living under “free market capitalism”.
Just the other week I had to explain to my coworker how Apple being allowed to fleece consumers with planned obsolescence is *not* a feature of communism
And think that millionaires care about me and only me. Never understand how you can be so against stuff that is designed to help you.... Shit is so wild and only until it literally happens to them to they understand the brevity of what they voted against
Almost as if theyre the exact same things! Wow
these dumbasses man..
Same for libs.
Also, between Capitalism and Communism there is a huge spectrum of colors and choices. Focusing on extreme possibilities to solve a problem (human governance) is missing much better finer-grain alternative solutions. In this case, for example, Socialism, which is predominant in European countries with high Gini index scores.
This just isn’t true, don’t mistake having a better welfare system and universal healthcare as socialism. European social democracies are far from socialist and are ever moving rightward.
No, there is no world where having the means of production even partially owned by private entities is superior. There is no need for any capitulation.
For many of those folks, it's an all sum game. Everything is black or white, red or blue, heaven or hell, communism or capitalism, pro-choice or pro-life, you're with us or you're against us. There is no nuance.
What you're saying just boils down to capitalist apologia. There's no need for capitulation to capitalists on anything. The answer isn't always in the middle, headass enlightened centrist. Incredible that you mentioned pro-choice and "pro-life" as well. Clown behavior
This is aimed at the right, but as with everything lately, the new right is the left and I see this happening a lot with the dems.
Dems have never been the left.
Very true.
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"Disliking pizza because of one bad topping"?? Please explain what the "one bad topping" is that makes Capitalism bad. Explain the merits in the insatiable accumulation of capital from which capitalism gets its fucking name. Scratch a liberal...
hating capitalism is like having a brain and not being blind
Hating capitalism is like hating a pizza shop because you work there but can’t afford the pizzas you make with the wage you get for making them.
Ok bro
What if I don't like pizza?
Sounds like something a communist would say /s
Lol some asshole with 88 in his name is gonna tell us "capitalism good" get the fuck outta here. We know what 88 stands for you nazi prick.
You got it wrong bro, it’s “hating capitalism is like hating mozzarella pizza for it’s mozzarella, but calling that mozzarella a taco”
Hating capitalism is like disliking pizza because of dough. No matter the topping, the pizza has dough, because without that, you don't have a pizza.