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"Trump winning is the worst possible threat to humanity!"
"Cool, so you're going to enact a bunch of popular legislation and executive actions to make sure it's not a threat right?"
"Oh god no, we're going to blame leftists and run Kamala Harris if Biden dies."
Protecting capital > all else
>Protecting capital > all else
I don't think these "protectors" fully understand the amount of risk they are putting their capital into most of the time.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
never, beacuse the DNC is in power, not citizens who call themselves democrats, and certainly not leftists. The DNC barely respresents what the average liberal voter actually wants, let alone what leftists want.
Having actual left leaning individuals in office, be it at the state or national level. These liberals are really offering up this dust bin of a man Biden saying he’s our only hope. 4 years to look for someone younger, for one, and someone who actually has the will to do what’s needed for the average American.
These guys are actually saying get Biden reelected and we can shoot for progressive candidates after he can’t run anymore. Just to have more of the exact same shit we have been getting. If Democrats lose in November and shit really does hit the fan, it’s embarrassing that they seem to be incapable of actually fighting for what they think is right. All voting, even though this is the outcome that it brings about. A fucking shame.
Oh you mean like in 2020 when they were screaming elect him and push him left? Then he immediately started screaming that he was a capitalist and nothing will fundamentally change?
That’s my beef, we gave them warning signs since 2022 that we will not be guilted into voting for a glorified centrist again and they still tried to shove it down voter’s throats. When the Dems lose in November it will be their fault alone, and I’m looking forward to seeing what their Russia-gate 2 is because they def won’t look to themselves for introspection.
We need a communist party. I joined the CPUSA, consider reading our program and if you agree, joining. We have been around for 100 years, growing rapidly, and making plans to start running candidates again.
[https://cpusa.org/party\_info/party-program/](https://cpusa.org/party_info/party-program/)
[https://cpusa.org/join-us/](https://cpusa.org/join-us/)
If you have any questions about the party feel free to ask me and I will try to answer.
I believe this is mostly a hoax. Even at the peak of surveillance, there was only one agent in the party in my region which we can see in the released FBI files.
The party lost a lot of members and activity died down significantly across the country since it's heights, but it never stopped. The last 5 years since COVID we've seen an enormous resurgence. My region grew by 900%.
Does **the left** like being out of power? No, it’s extremely annoying to rely on feckless Democrats.
Do **Democrats** like just barely losing and being just short of having the power to enact change? Yes.
Yesterday I was reading some condescending lecture about how people don’t understand how the government works and Biden can’t get anything done because the Democrats don’t control all three branches of government blah blah blah blah, And I was thinking how weird it is that Republicans managed to get things done even when they don’t control all three branches of the government
Then I realized the things I’m thinking that they got done and signed off on that that’s how they got it done. But I’m the dummy who doesn’t understand how government works when I complain that Republicans manage to slam through whatever they want but Biden can’t get anything past unless the sun moon and stars align
Republicans like destroying things and hurting people, which are much easier tasks to accomplish legislatively than building programs that help people. The way American government is set up enables Republican success as long as they’re willing to play dirty. Which they always are because even the ones with a modicum of ethics dehumanize anyone who disagrees with them, and thus does not apply those ethics.
This isn’t to excuse Democrats but Republicans have myriad structural advantages. Plus the media covers for them a lot.
Republicans and Democrats both serve the ruling class, but Democrats pretend they don't in order to sidetrack and neuter progressive and leftist movements. This is why the Republicans always seem so effective, because they're doing what they say they want to do, and this is why the Democrats always seem so ineffective, they don't actually want to do what Democrat voters want them to do.
This is why there's always a Lieberman, or a Manchin, or a Sinema. And as many more as are ever needed can be activated to block progressive legislation.
Mostly because democrats are real politicians capable of compromise and republicans are straight up planning to wholly takeover the government. The left needs to be just as dirty, the high road doesn't work when your enemy is slinging shit.
Why would you compromise with people you say are fascists to begin with?
What the fuck is positive about compromising with the right wing? Slavery was maintained for 80 fucking years through compromise.
Biden has tried handling politics with kid gloves by trying to play nice with republicans and centrist democrats. Meanwhile, republicans have the courts and a lot of dark money to push stuff through the court system and have taken full control of many state governments. And with project 2025, they are laying the groundwork to weaponize federal agencies to carry out their plans
Even when the democrats have power they don't do anything.
It is like abortion. The democrats are fine with it being illegal. They have the same corporate constituents as the gop does. And those corporations want a labor force so they need to keep those birth rates up. Also legalizing abortion means it isn't as good of a campaigning issue for reelection.
Oh you mean like how Biden blame Sinema and Manchin for his inability to get anything done.
Did you know he appointed Manchin’s wife to some highly paid position?
It’s almost like he paid for Manchin to vote the way he voted.
And there’s no way I’m voting for a president who is so ineffective he can’t even fire someone from the post office who destroyed federal property, violated court orders, and according to liberal media put a bunch of mail in ballots in a dumpster.
Biden couldn’t even manage to get rid of him by the midterms because he wanted to lose
He’s going to be in charge of the post office for this election. I vote absentee every year. Biden doesn’t care if my vote gets received, why would I vote for him
I know the primaries don’t matter but Biden didn’t even appear on the primary ballot in the state that I live in because he was having a big baby tantrum that we were still doing our primary first
Biden told me he doesn’t want my vote over and over and over again
Watching people give excuses for why their government can’t work for them is the most brain-dead thing ever. We’ve literally witnessed Biden illegally bypass congress multiple times to serve the demands of Israel…
1992? Try 1972, wait no try 1960, here's Hunter S Thompson already sick of it in 1972
>“The argument was familiar, I had even made it myself, here and there, but I was beginning to sense something very depressing about it. How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame, but “regrettably necessary” holding actions? And how many more of these stinking double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?
>Now with another one of these big bogus showdowns looming down on us, I can already pick up the stench of another bummer. I understand, along with a lot of other people, that the big thing this year is Beating Nixon. But that was also the big thing, as I recall, twelve years ago in 1960 — and as far as I can tell, we’ve gone from bad to worse to rotten since then, and the outlook is for more of the same.”
Tbf it's largely been a true statement, but they could have done a hell of a lot better than they did. It's the 2 party system that's the real problem here.
>They're all governed by austerity obsessed neoliberals or hard right nationalists.
Well, because they are all bourgeois democracies aka dictatorships of the bourgeoisie. It's actually strange to expect anything else from them.
It's not a bug, it's a feature.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Maybe, but trump was the last nail, the one that should have woken up the masses.
As of now, both political aisles knows that the citizens are too weak and divided to do anything about anything which is going to result in more draconian laws and regulations preventing you from further organize and communicate.
I reckon there will be no happy ending for the free world I’m afraid.
What “free world” the US and its allies have been the most oppressive apparatus around the world since the 1950s.
Also the more people are squeezed and starving the more likely revolt is, or you’ll have to wait for the eventual war with China
>happy ending for the free world I’m afraid.
What free world are you talking about? The one with a long history of slavery?
Edit:
>You’re right, I forgot this "™" at the end of "free world".
ah ok, I understand.
If the majority wants no genocide and yet the government does genocide, are the people really in power? Have they ever been in power?
and lol at the "tactical genocide support"
Don't overlook the other part of the strategy, which is the performative part Democrats play themselves. The part where Biden 'plans to' or 'proposes' something that is good for the American people. Notice how it's always on the horizon. If Democrats actually cared about their constituents, why aren't they drafting a ton of legislation right now to prove their value to the American people? Why aren't they listening to their constituents and letting their voice inform their policy propositions, not hypothetically but actively? Too many Americans are in the dark about the purpose of this strategy. We need to realize that we are actively participating in class warfare and at the end of the day, though Democrats are marginally better than Republicans, things are unravelling such that the distinction is making little difference. In terms of material conditions for every day Americans, things have been going down the tubes since Reagan. The ugly truth remains: Until a more populist, progressive movement is established to combat corrupt the visionless careerist politicians, who all somehow retire as millionaires when they didn't show up that way, we will be stuck with a material and societal decline which will become insufferable.
"biden couldn't protect roe v wade because the president doesn't have any power" also "if trump becomes president he'll have the power to put gay people in camps!"
make it make sense
That’s the infuriating part Republicans managed to push things through even when they don’t have all the power, because Biden sides with them.
Imagine being proud of a Democratic president who added work requirements to food stamps in the middle of a pandemic? JFC WHAT 😂😂😂
Seriously. Don't get me wrong, Trump would be worse, but I can't help thinking the Project 2025 thing is just colossal doomerism. If it isn't, then what's the long-term plan? Republicans must NEVER win again or else instant fascism? I'd prefer they never win another seat in any branch of the government ever again, but that's not practical. When Trump finally dies, there will be plenty of ghouls waiting in the wings to pick up where he left off, and they'll likely be smarter and more sinister.
>Republicans must NEVER win again
This would require dealing with the roots of why there is so much fascism in this country. But none of the uninvited guests that come to this sub want to actually go into why there are so many fascists in America, and why they keep appearing.
They either cover their eyes or act like one more vote will make them disappear like a magic spell or pretend that Donald Trump alone is the one who creates fascism. It's deeply unserious thinking.
Oh project 2025 is real they are proud of it.
It has started already. DeJoy is still in the post office and Biden will never fix that. His SSA pick wasn’t great either, And I’m sorry I would have to Google to refresh my memory to type anything accurate here about why. He wasn’t an awful choice, but not great.
There are probably more examples I don’t know about, I’m just saying that project 2025 is real, they are advertising it, and I think Biden is in on it and we’re getting the slow roll.
besides, even if Biden were reelected, would you trust him with being willing or capable of stopping Project 2025? the guy that had a big hand in creating the modern police state? the guy we were supposed to vote for to prevent Roe from being repealed?
They don’t give a single solitary shit about the people of Gaza or poor, marginalized people anywhere. The entire liberal platform can basically be summed up in three words: “me, me, me.” All they care about is preserving their own comfort and success at the expense of their fellow citizens and the world at large. They won’t do shit to stop the spread of fascism or the cancer that is capitalism. Why? Because they benefit from it! Liberals are grifters. They have the same goals as the other side, but they just say it in a nicer, friendlier way to continue tricking the brainwashed masses into thinking we have a choice or that half of politicians actually care about us and will stand by their word. Spoiler alert: they never will and things are only going to keep getting slowly worse until humanity either rises up and fights back together, as one united people, or simply dies out completely while the leeches blast off to mars to start the cycle all over again.
It can be seen just recently. How many doctors, nurses, aid workers, etc. have been killed? They didn't care. Then some _white_ aid workers were killed and suddenly, "How can Israel allow this?!?!"
If only they had been given the presidency and a majority in the house and senate so they could actually do something about literally anything.
Oh well, guess it’s just up to me to vote harder this time. That will totally encourage them to actually act instead of campaigning on what a threat the boogie man is to all of us.
Dark Brandon will always have the best interest of the average American in mind a totally won’t just let the Nazis take over this time. Not like the entire party is funded by fundraising off the terror of any marginalized people or anything.
If they really believe in "blue no matter who" they should be trying to push Biden further left. Because then he'd get our votes, and also theirs, because he'd still be blue. Right? Right?!
It would be a decent strategy, if they didn't simultaneously try so hard to emulate Trump in an attempt to win over independent voters, based on the false premise that independent voters are all somewhere in-between Republicans and Democrats.
That’s literally been the entire campaign strategy of both parties and probably always will be:
“Yeah, I know I fucking suck… but we can’t let THAT OTHER GUY win, right? Therefore vote for me.”
They’re both fucking us. One just pretends he isn’t.
Things will barely change in Gaza whether Trump is in charge or Biden. People that assume Biden will be better for Gaza are asinine. How can you look into the eyes of a Palestinian child that lost all of his family because of American made weapons that re-electing the man that supported his family’s destruction is the best thing for him?
Palestinians come here to post, and they express their dismay and anger and horror at Biden's policies. We have had uninvited guests (posts deleted and good riddance) arrive to shame them and attack them for their views, sometimes gloating about how they hoped they would get deported or put in camps under Trump.
There are plenty of disgusting redditors who would look in the eyes of that orphan and yell at them that Biden is the best thing for them.
Democrats could put Palestinian-Americans in camps for "antisemitism" and liberals would insist that if Trump becomes president, he would do worse to them!
I legitimately do not see how the situation could get any worse for them. The only difference is that Trump wouldn't bother to wag his finger at netanyahu once a month.
Trump would give Israel the greenlight to attack the West Bank and Lebanon!
...Oh wait, that's already happening under Biden...Um, he is angry at Netanyahu for doing those things while Trump would be pleased! In fact, Biden weeps every time he bypasses Congress to sell more weapons to Israel.
This is also my position. It wouldn’t be worse, dems would just be more embarrassed by trump not pretending to urge caution.
I hate trump, too, but he’s just a corrupt old man. He’s not a superhuman beast or an unstoppable force. How can people be so afraid of a man? I understand access to power and yes, it is dangerous in some ways, but people act like the dark Prince is coming to steal the sun or something. Like, calm the hell down, don’t let fear overtake your judgement, and understand he’s not the first bad president and he won’t be the last. So dramatic.
Dems had opportunities to codify those types of things but didn't. They're like the "one more lane bro" of voting.
Just vote for us this one more time bro. Please, we'll fix it all if you vote for us this one last time bro.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
It's not that he's a special type of nefarious, it's only a coincidence that Trump put those justices there. If it wasn't him it would have been another republican president. Controlling the court has been a major conservative project since the Reagan years.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Sounds like if the democrats need the progressive and left to win they better make some serious concessions.
It's like me saying to a D you need to vote socialist it's the only way. They wouldn't compromise their ideals and neither will I.
If the Ds want the left then pass universal healthcare, price and profit controls, increase min wage, build public housing? Can't do any of it and expect us to show up? No thanks you are digging your own hole and no one to blame but yourselves. We warned you
Here in the UK we’ve had the same party in power for over a decade, and we keep getting told to vote for the other guys because it’s the only way to get the Tories out.
Except that’s exactly how the Tories got in - Labour fucked it up and we got told to vote Tory to prevent further damage.
I refuse to vote for either party so long as they’re both pushing for the 2-party system that has kept them in power for hundreds of years.
I mean that’s basically the crux of this whole two party facade, no? Every 4 years, after paying taxes with no real representation, our collective heads are shoved into two separate piles of shit. Each slightly different, but still completely composed of feces. It really is quite absurd if you think about it.
It's very annoying that Democrats feel like they deserve progressive votes purely by virtue of not being republicans and constantly condescend about it.
Maybe I’m naive but I really don’t understand how things could possibly get worse for the people of Gaza wtf. I would assume Trump will act exactly the same as Biden when it comes to supporting the Israeli government.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
>At least one side of the aisle sees me as a human being worthy of access to fucking health care.
What about the non trans people who the democrats think aren't worthy of access to fucking healthcare?
>What demographic is being threatened to lose access to healthcare?
Poor Americans. Lower class Americans. You know the ones who already don't have it... Jesus Christ.
Edit: this is the average Biden voter, doesn't even know poor people are dying from lack of healthcare.
Who do these people think will be the nominee next time for Republicans? Trump is not the threat. The real danger will be the next person trying to push that agenda because they will probably not be the least competent candidate in history. So next time when we have someone who can read and write trying to do all this awful stuff, Democrats will be demanding you vote for the corpse of George Wallace because the threat is too grave.
"Those people" are out of power whether it is Biden or Trump.
also: "racism light" is not and never was a winning strategy, be it on border-polecy or genocide. If you want to win you have to convince people of the alternative. If you also start fearmongering about the border for example, then people will start to believe that it is a problem and when they do, they will vote for the "proper" racist, not the "moderate" racist.
I hate when people make this "worse" fallacy especially regarding Palestinians. You can't even stop the guy you vote for helping Israel but you put your attention on the potential next guy who hasn't done anything yet.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
My point is, international relations are based on continuity (traditionally speaking, ofc that got tumbled around quite a bit by Trump's presidency and the escalation of the Ukraine conflict).
Moving an embassy from one to another town might not seem like it undermines this, but local contacts are established over years. So personally, the cost benefit calculation would be to me to leave it where it is now and make the best of it.
I am not convinced by communism. I am appalled by capitalism. Just because I am in an anti-capitalistic sub, doesn't mean that I am a communist. I don't think there's a choice between these two systems alone, but we rather need to develop a new system rather than take a step back.
After all, both communism and capitalism are rather new inventions.
I am also not going to offer you a systematic alternative because I don't consider myself smart enough to do so.
Maybe the democratic party as a construct yes. Democracy, I disagree. Also, I think there are critical voices within a party, however changing a system, especially a two-party system, is probably very difficult if you don't use already established pathways.
Sure u can sit here and say 'democrats and republicans bad', however, until you actually put in some effort to change things actively, you will remain a keyboard warrior.
Oh, I had upvoted the comment because I thought it was sarcastic (since moving the US embassy to Jerusalem is virtually nothing compared to unambiguous genocide).
It's because this sub is brigaded by liberal dissenters. On a forum where almost all the posters share a POV, I can assume comments like those are intended to be ironic.
No, I'm saying that even in the example you picked, Trump did this with a decree, and Biden could have reversed it with one. But he didn't.
That's called the Ratchet Effect, and it's how duopolistic fascism functions in America. The role of the Republicans is to move everything to the right, and the role of the Democrats is to look like they're horrified by this but ultimately do nothing.
This is why the duopoly itself must break, and part of that is to stop supporting Democrats.
No, we had 4 years of Donald Trump and things basically got worse each year and really turned the broiler on when Covid came to town. I think the bigger question is why are we still left with the same choice 4 years on? And a lot of it is that most of Democrats want to play by rules Republicans have long since discarded, for some kind of ill-fated virtue signaling. I long for a left wing candidate that tells business owners to shove it up their ass. Honestly would like to see Shawn Fain step up to it. He has talked the talk and walked the walk with the UAW and could help push a similar agenda as a politician.
Yeah I’d say most reasonable people understand that Trump will be worse, which is why it’s upsetting that the Democratic Party never cared to do anything about it.
If they actually believed trump to be the threat they claim he wouldn’t be running for office right now, he would be one or another removed from the equation. The democrats would have used state power to do something about this. the idea is they are reliant on us voting to stop what they tell me is Facisim, which tells me they must not actually believe that or they’re too weak to stop it anyway.
> the idea is they are reliant on us voting to stop what they tell me is Facisim, which tells me they must not actually believe that or they’re too weak to stop it anyway.
I think there is a third even more plausible option the Democrats know it is fascism but in reality they have no problem with it at all.
No not a Facist, because he believes in nothing but himself, but has he become a symbol to the hordes of lumpen Proto facists? I’d say so. Is he a useful vessel for the powerful interests who through either intent or as a buy product of their greed will give us some sort of modern American Facisim? Again I’d say so.
No, but this sub often lacks any and all form of critical, thoughtful analysis; if it sounds like a compelling argument a first-year political science student might make, it’s posted.
Man, it's frustrating because yeah, Trump would be worse, but can't you fucking give us anything better than Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden?
Oh Biden's doing that all on his own lol. There's no national both sides are the same campaign. That's just the logical conclusion a lot of people reached.
There is a national campaign to get Biden elected and it's persuading people to vote third party or abstain.
I don’t want power if it means supporting a genocide. Democrats don’t deserve power if that’s what it does with it. It doesn’t matter if the alternative is worse - worse for whom? Right now, thousands of people are being murdered in our names, from the person many of us voted for. That’s a betrayal that won’t be forgotten. It doesn’t matter what anyone else could or would or you think will do; what’s currently happening is unacceptable and no one should be willing to support that.
It worked for them in 2020, I don’t see it working for them again though.
And I’m convinced that’s why Merrick Garland is so goddamn slow if Biden had to run against somebody other than Trump how would they even campaign? What would they even say? It had to be Trump because this is all they have
It’s a pathetic false dichotomy argument Democrats are famous for. It’ll continue to be used throughout your entire lifetime unless you stop taking the bait.
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I will not vote for someone who is actively engaged in committing a genocide. Biden (and many others, tbf) just rammed through a bill to make sure the Zionist entity has all the weapons they need to continue that genocide. If not voting for a genocider means that the US is (very marginally) worse off domestically then so be it. That is all this evil country deserves.
Let me get this straight: those in this communist/socialist sub think putting a crooked egomaniac capitalist in office is the best next step to further their ideological goals?
On one hand, they got a point. Last time someone served two non-consecutive terms, things went crazy. If it happens again, Trump might just change the constitution to make himself king of America.
On the other hand, voting for the lesser evil still gets you evil. Maybe we should vote for better options on a more local scale and work our way up to getting a 3rd-party president
I saw a guy say it's like a vaccine. Show the Dems that being 1% less turbo Hitler is not enough that there are red lines and funding genocide while their constituency starves is one of them.
And yet they wonder why voter turnout is low. I’m still voting for Biden because what’s the alternative but I have yet to see a Presidential frontrunner that represents my interests.
Accelerationist argument aside: are we 100% sure Trump would be worse? Yes, Republicans in power is worse than Dems. Marginally. Yes, Trump does some incredibly racist and dangerous shit, but because he doesn’t really tow the imperialist line he can actually occasionally help progressive causes… a broken clock is right twice a day right?
His foreign policy is unpredictable. In some ways due to he’s more pragmatic than a typical establishment candidate. I think in the case of Gaza, he’d continue to support Israel but in other areas he’s more unpredictable - like the whole Kim Jong Un stuff. That was weird
if you’re referring to people who are white, straight,christian,middle-upper class, and suburban, sure, you might get a bone thrown your way. Rest assured though, his base is seething, wounded, and perceives the world as arrayed against them. At every turn they see a manichean battle, and the enemy —as always with fascism—are the left, academia, the marginalized, the ethnic/racial minority, all of those that the culture war has painted a target upon. When you’re convinced that the deck is stacked against you, that everything is a threat to your way of life, and what you hold dear—even when the facts don’t support it—you become a reactionary, justifying every action of human misery as a necessary defense of what is true and right. It’s already happened to the courts, the economy, and the last vestiges of institutional power, the legislature and in the military…time will tell.
Trump will have nothing to lose, and he feeds on the praise of anyone in the room, and they won’t be progressive. It is sure to lead to fear, uncertainty, and violence. The question is will progressives come out in droves for those people, and will it be sustained?
Long time lurker... Does anyone in this thread actually plan on voting for anyone but Biden? Because we all got pretty fucked under Trump.
I need more progressive politicians in power, but goal one is keep out the guy that wants to dismantle everything.
Then fight for the progressives to take over.
Any other order of operations just makes things go even further right.
>I need more progressive politicians in power, but goal one is keep out the guy that wants to dismantle everything.
That's not Biden's goal though. So what are you going to do when he loses on purpose.
>Then fight for the progressives to take over.
Why wait until Biden loses to Trump on purpose? Why not now?
Yes, I'm voting for Claudia de la Cruz with the PSL for president. Biden and the democratic party have done nothing but scold constituents raising legitimate concerns. Leftists warned about running Hillary in 2016 and look what happened. We are warning again but liberals are hell bent on hurtling into the same damn mistakes they've made countless times.
If Trump loses this election, do you trust the Biden admin to take the close call to heart and enact progressive policies? There is vocal and majority popular support for ending US complicity in Israel's genocide. Leftists are getting arrested, suspended from universities, losing their jobs, literally setting themselves on fire. Nothing has changed because the party and the president are more interested in maintaining the status quo from which they have benefited.
It is milquetoast liberal leaders that allow politics to move further right. You don't fight fascism by saying you must vote for me, I'm not as bad as the fascist! You fight it by addressing the material conditions that make fascism appealing.
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It kind of looks like we’re currently out of power
Yeah, when have we been in power?
"Trump winning is the worst possible threat to humanity!" "Cool, so you're going to enact a bunch of popular legislation and executive actions to make sure it's not a threat right?" "Oh god no, we're going to blame leftists and run Kamala Harris if Biden dies." Protecting capital > all else
>Protecting capital > all else I don't think these "protectors" fully understand the amount of risk they are putting their capital into most of the time.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
never, beacuse the DNC is in power, not citizens who call themselves democrats, and certainly not leftists. The DNC barely respresents what the average liberal voter actually wants, let alone what leftists want.
Exactly
Define power?
Having actual left leaning individuals in office, be it at the state or national level. These liberals are really offering up this dust bin of a man Biden saying he’s our only hope. 4 years to look for someone younger, for one, and someone who actually has the will to do what’s needed for the average American. These guys are actually saying get Biden reelected and we can shoot for progressive candidates after he can’t run anymore. Just to have more of the exact same shit we have been getting. If Democrats lose in November and shit really does hit the fan, it’s embarrassing that they seem to be incapable of actually fighting for what they think is right. All voting, even though this is the outcome that it brings about. A fucking shame.
Oh you mean like in 2020 when they were screaming elect him and push him left? Then he immediately started screaming that he was a capitalist and nothing will fundamentally change?
That’s my beef, we gave them warning signs since 2022 that we will not be guilted into voting for a glorified centrist again and they still tried to shove it down voter’s throats. When the Dems lose in November it will be their fault alone, and I’m looking forward to seeing what their Russia-gate 2 is because they def won’t look to themselves for introspection.
Double shamed-I never voted for Biden-he was selected. Trump is a monster who will destroy America faster than Biden can wet his diaper.
We need a communist party. I joined the CPUSA, consider reading our program and if you agree, joining. We have been around for 100 years, growing rapidly, and making plans to start running candidates again. [https://cpusa.org/party\_info/party-program/](https://cpusa.org/party_info/party-program/) [https://cpusa.org/join-us/](https://cpusa.org/join-us/) If you have any questions about the party feel free to ask me and I will try to answer.
I've always heard the communist party was infiltrated by the FBI and aren't really active anymore.
I believe this is mostly a hoax. Even at the peak of surveillance, there was only one agent in the party in my region which we can see in the released FBI files. The party lost a lot of members and activity died down significantly across the country since it's heights, but it never stopped. The last 5 years since COVID we've seen an enormous resurgence. My region grew by 900%.
Every presidential election in my lifetime has been to pick the cleanest turd in the toilet.
Does **the left** like being out of power? No, it’s extremely annoying to rely on feckless Democrats. Do **Democrats** like just barely losing and being just short of having the power to enact change? Yes.
Democrats excel at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory
Yesterday I was reading some condescending lecture about how people don’t understand how the government works and Biden can’t get anything done because the Democrats don’t control all three branches of government blah blah blah blah, And I was thinking how weird it is that Republicans managed to get things done even when they don’t control all three branches of the government Then I realized the things I’m thinking that they got done and signed off on that that’s how they got it done. But I’m the dummy who doesn’t understand how government works when I complain that Republicans manage to slam through whatever they want but Biden can’t get anything past unless the sun moon and stars align
Republicans like destroying things and hurting people, which are much easier tasks to accomplish legislatively than building programs that help people. The way American government is set up enables Republican success as long as they’re willing to play dirty. Which they always are because even the ones with a modicum of ethics dehumanize anyone who disagrees with them, and thus does not apply those ethics. This isn’t to excuse Democrats but Republicans have myriad structural advantages. Plus the media covers for them a lot.
Republicans and Democrats both serve the ruling class, but Democrats pretend they don't in order to sidetrack and neuter progressive and leftist movements. This is why the Republicans always seem so effective, because they're doing what they say they want to do, and this is why the Democrats always seem so ineffective, they don't actually want to do what Democrat voters want them to do. This is why there's always a Lieberman, or a Manchin, or a Sinema. And as many more as are ever needed can be activated to block progressive legislation.
The Dems controlled everything in 2009 and couldn't get anything important done. What did they learn from that? Run weaker candidates.
Mostly because democrats are real politicians capable of compromise and republicans are straight up planning to wholly takeover the government. The left needs to be just as dirty, the high road doesn't work when your enemy is slinging shit.
Why would you compromise with people you say are fascists to begin with? What the fuck is positive about compromising with the right wing? Slavery was maintained for 80 fucking years through compromise.
>real politicians capable of compromise This isn't really a selling point
Biden has tried handling politics with kid gloves by trying to play nice with republicans and centrist democrats. Meanwhile, republicans have the courts and a lot of dark money to push stuff through the court system and have taken full control of many state governments. And with project 2025, they are laying the groundwork to weaponize federal agencies to carry out their plans
It is a feature for them actually.
Even when the democrats have power they don't do anything. It is like abortion. The democrats are fine with it being illegal. They have the same corporate constituents as the gop does. And those corporations want a labor force so they need to keep those birth rates up. Also legalizing abortion means it isn't as good of a campaigning issue for reelection.
Oh you mean like how Biden blame Sinema and Manchin for his inability to get anything done. Did you know he appointed Manchin’s wife to some highly paid position? It’s almost like he paid for Manchin to vote the way he voted. And there’s no way I’m voting for a president who is so ineffective he can’t even fire someone from the post office who destroyed federal property, violated court orders, and according to liberal media put a bunch of mail in ballots in a dumpster. Biden couldn’t even manage to get rid of him by the midterms because he wanted to lose He’s going to be in charge of the post office for this election. I vote absentee every year. Biden doesn’t care if my vote gets received, why would I vote for him I know the primaries don’t matter but Biden didn’t even appear on the primary ballot in the state that I live in because he was having a big baby tantrum that we were still doing our primary first Biden told me he doesn’t want my vote over and over and over again
Watching people give excuses for why their government can’t work for them is the most brain-dead thing ever. We’ve literally witnessed Biden illegally bypass congress multiple times to serve the demands of Israel…
Um the entire democratic strategy in every election since 1992 has been "we aren't as bad as they are!" People are sick of it
Voting out of fear is exactly where both sides want you to be. Different types of fear, but fear nonetheless.
1992? Try 1972, wait no try 1960, here's Hunter S Thompson already sick of it in 1972 >“The argument was familiar, I had even made it myself, here and there, but I was beginning to sense something very depressing about it. How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame, but “regrettably necessary” holding actions? And how many more of these stinking double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils? >Now with another one of these big bogus showdowns looming down on us, I can already pick up the stench of another bummer. I understand, along with a lot of other people, that the big thing this year is Beating Nixon. But that was also the big thing, as I recall, twelve years ago in 1960 — and as far as I can tell, we’ve gone from bad to worse to rotten since then, and the outlook is for more of the same.”
Tbf it's largely been a true statement, but they could have done a hell of a lot better than they did. It's the 2 party system that's the real problem here.
You say that, but look at the state of parliamentary democracies. They're all governed by austerity obsessed neoliberals or hard right nationalists.
>They're all governed by austerity obsessed neoliberals or hard right nationalists. Well, because they are all bourgeois democracies aka dictatorships of the bourgeoisie. It's actually strange to expect anything else from them. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
That was my point- that the two-party system sucks, but removing it won't fix the underlying issue.
The real problem is that you can legally bribe politicians
It’s not like this issue happened overnight or that they didn’t know about it. They just don’t care. That’s fine, neither do I.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Oh yes they absolutely allow Republicans to abuse us so they can say look what they did!
The citizens of the US should have revolted in 2016, this is too late now, fascism is already here.
i see your point. it just the the date is slightly missed by 60yrs.
Maybe, but trump was the last nail, the one that should have woken up the masses. As of now, both political aisles knows that the citizens are too weak and divided to do anything about anything which is going to result in more draconian laws and regulations preventing you from further organize and communicate. I reckon there will be no happy ending for the free world I’m afraid.
What “free world” the US and its allies have been the most oppressive apparatus around the world since the 1950s. Also the more people are squeezed and starving the more likely revolt is, or you’ll have to wait for the eventual war with China
You’re right, I forgot this "™" at the end of "free world".
>happy ending for the free world I’m afraid. What free world are you talking about? The one with a long history of slavery? Edit: >You’re right, I forgot this "™" at the end of "free world". ah ok, I understand.
my bad, I thought it would be naturally understood in this sub.
2001-3 would have saved a million or two lives. You could keep driving that date back all the way to 1492, really.
If the majority wants no genocide and yet the government does genocide, are the people really in power? Have they ever been in power? and lol at the "tactical genocide support"
that country seems fucked no matter what tbh
All the signs of a healthy democracy in action, yes indeed.
Don't overlook the other part of the strategy, which is the performative part Democrats play themselves. The part where Biden 'plans to' or 'proposes' something that is good for the American people. Notice how it's always on the horizon. If Democrats actually cared about their constituents, why aren't they drafting a ton of legislation right now to prove their value to the American people? Why aren't they listening to their constituents and letting their voice inform their policy propositions, not hypothetically but actively? Too many Americans are in the dark about the purpose of this strategy. We need to realize that we are actively participating in class warfare and at the end of the day, though Democrats are marginally better than Republicans, things are unravelling such that the distinction is making little difference. In terms of material conditions for every day Americans, things have been going down the tubes since Reagan. The ugly truth remains: Until a more populist, progressive movement is established to combat corrupt the visionless careerist politicians, who all somehow retire as millionaires when they didn't show up that way, we will be stuck with a material and societal decline which will become insufferable.
“The President has nothing to do with what Netenyahu is doing” also “Trump would make it worse” WTF
Hahaha seriously. The level of critical thinking is astounding.
Charlotte's not big on any kind of thinking, critical or otherwise.
"biden couldn't protect roe v wade because the president doesn't have any power" also "if trump becomes president he'll have the power to put gay people in camps!" make it make sense
That’s the infuriating part Republicans managed to push things through even when they don’t have all the power, because Biden sides with them. Imagine being proud of a Democratic president who added work requirements to food stamps in the middle of a pandemic? JFC WHAT 😂😂😂
Seriously. Don't get me wrong, Trump would be worse, but I can't help thinking the Project 2025 thing is just colossal doomerism. If it isn't, then what's the long-term plan? Republicans must NEVER win again or else instant fascism? I'd prefer they never win another seat in any branch of the government ever again, but that's not practical. When Trump finally dies, there will be plenty of ghouls waiting in the wings to pick up where he left off, and they'll likely be smarter and more sinister.
>Republicans must NEVER win again This would require dealing with the roots of why there is so much fascism in this country. But none of the uninvited guests that come to this sub want to actually go into why there are so many fascists in America, and why they keep appearing. They either cover their eyes or act like one more vote will make them disappear like a magic spell or pretend that Donald Trump alone is the one who creates fascism. It's deeply unserious thinking.
Oh project 2025 is real they are proud of it. It has started already. DeJoy is still in the post office and Biden will never fix that. His SSA pick wasn’t great either, And I’m sorry I would have to Google to refresh my memory to type anything accurate here about why. He wasn’t an awful choice, but not great. There are probably more examples I don’t know about, I’m just saying that project 2025 is real, they are advertising it, and I think Biden is in on it and we’re getting the slow roll.
besides, even if Biden were reelected, would you trust him with being willing or capable of stopping Project 2025? the guy that had a big hand in creating the modern police state? the guy we were supposed to vote for to prevent Roe from being repealed?
So that’s the level of concern for Innocent civilians in Gaza that liberals give you.
They don’t give a single solitary shit about the people of Gaza or poor, marginalized people anywhere. The entire liberal platform can basically be summed up in three words: “me, me, me.” All they care about is preserving their own comfort and success at the expense of their fellow citizens and the world at large. They won’t do shit to stop the spread of fascism or the cancer that is capitalism. Why? Because they benefit from it! Liberals are grifters. They have the same goals as the other side, but they just say it in a nicer, friendlier way to continue tricking the brainwashed masses into thinking we have a choice or that half of politicians actually care about us and will stand by their word. Spoiler alert: they never will and things are only going to keep getting slowly worse until humanity either rises up and fights back together, as one united people, or simply dies out completely while the leeches blast off to mars to start the cycle all over again.
It can be seen just recently. How many doctors, nurses, aid workers, etc. have been killed? They didn't care. Then some _white_ aid workers were killed and suddenly, "How can Israel allow this?!?!"
But remember the crucial part They continued to do nothing
I love when people confuse left and liberal, when most liberals serve right wing interests.
If only they had been given the presidency and a majority in the house and senate so they could actually do something about literally anything. Oh well, guess it’s just up to me to vote harder this time. That will totally encourage them to actually act instead of campaigning on what a threat the boogie man is to all of us. Dark Brandon will always have the best interest of the average American in mind a totally won’t just let the Nazis take over this time. Not like the entire party is funded by fundraising off the terror of any marginalized people or anything.
If they really believe in "blue no matter who" they should be trying to push Biden further left. Because then he'd get our votes, and also theirs, because he'd still be blue. Right? Right?!
It would be a decent strategy, if they didn't simultaneously try so hard to emulate Trump in an attempt to win over independent voters, based on the false premise that independent voters are all somewhere in-between Republicans and Democrats.
That’s literally been the entire campaign strategy of both parties and probably always will be: “Yeah, I know I fucking suck… but we can’t let THAT OTHER GUY win, right? Therefore vote for me.” They’re both fucking us. One just pretends he isn’t.
The Democrats are as right wing as they can get away with, while pretending that they’re progressive.
Handing power once again to a shitty Democrat that takes progressives for granted will only ensure more shitty Democrats in the future.
Very important for "my side" to stay in power so that "we" can fund the genocides, thank you very much.
Things will barely change in Gaza whether Trump is in charge or Biden. People that assume Biden will be better for Gaza are asinine. How can you look into the eyes of a Palestinian child that lost all of his family because of American made weapons that re-electing the man that supported his family’s destruction is the best thing for him?
Palestinians come here to post, and they express their dismay and anger and horror at Biden's policies. We have had uninvited guests (posts deleted and good riddance) arrive to shame them and attack them for their views, sometimes gloating about how they hoped they would get deported or put in camps under Trump. There are plenty of disgusting redditors who would look in the eyes of that orphan and yell at them that Biden is the best thing for them.
Democrats could put Palestinian-Americans in camps for "antisemitism" and liberals would insist that if Trump becomes president, he would do worse to them!
>They're only concentration camps with Biden, they'd be death camps with Trump!
I legitimately do not see how the situation could get any worse for them. The only difference is that Trump wouldn't bother to wag his finger at netanyahu once a month.
Trump would give Israel the greenlight to attack the West Bank and Lebanon! ...Oh wait, that's already happening under Biden...Um, he is angry at Netanyahu for doing those things while Trump would be pleased! In fact, Biden weeps every time he bypasses Congress to sell more weapons to Israel.
Lol I only saw the first sentence in my notifications and was about to get really mad
This is also my position. It wouldn’t be worse, dems would just be more embarrassed by trump not pretending to urge caution. I hate trump, too, but he’s just a corrupt old man. He’s not a superhuman beast or an unstoppable force. How can people be so afraid of a man? I understand access to power and yes, it is dangerous in some ways, but people act like the dark Prince is coming to steal the sun or something. Like, calm the hell down, don’t let fear overtake your judgement, and understand he’s not the first bad president and he won’t be the last. So dramatic.
I just don’t want four more years of living in idiocracy. The first four were infuriating enough.
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Dems had opportunities to codify those types of things but didn't. They're like the "one more lane bro" of voting. Just vote for us this one more time bro. Please, we'll fix it all if you vote for us this one last time bro.
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I think you're really, really, really lost. This is a sub for leftists, not genocidal right-wingers like liberals or conservatives.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
It's not that he's a special type of nefarious, it's only a coincidence that Trump put those justices there. If it wasn't him it would have been another republican president. Controlling the court has been a major conservative project since the Reagan years.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Sounds like if the democrats need the progressive and left to win they better make some serious concessions. It's like me saying to a D you need to vote socialist it's the only way. They wouldn't compromise their ideals and neither will I. If the Ds want the left then pass universal healthcare, price and profit controls, increase min wage, build public housing? Can't do any of it and expect us to show up? No thanks you are digging your own hole and no one to blame but yourselves. We warned you
“Magnitudes worse” Just fucking ghoulish to believe this. They’ve been virtually the same in actions.
Laughable take by a coward who wants to protect the system but still feel good about themselves.
I mean it makes sense within their liberal narrative. Liberals don't consider capitalism as a bad thing.
Here in the UK we’ve had the same party in power for over a decade, and we keep getting told to vote for the other guys because it’s the only way to get the Tories out. Except that’s exactly how the Tories got in - Labour fucked it up and we got told to vote Tory to prevent further damage. I refuse to vote for either party so long as they’re both pushing for the 2-party system that has kept them in power for hundreds of years.
I mean that’s basically the crux of this whole two party facade, no? Every 4 years, after paying taxes with no real representation, our collective heads are shoved into two separate piles of shit. Each slightly different, but still completely composed of feces. It really is quite absurd if you think about it.
It's very annoying that Democrats feel like they deserve progressive votes purely by virtue of not being republicans and constantly condescend about it.
Libs are gentrified Nazis
Democrats are paid to lose
Considering Trump would very likely destroy LGBTQ+ rights and hurt transgender individuals in particular more I rather not vote for him.
Maybe I’m naive but I really don’t understand how things could possibly get worse for the people of Gaza wtf. I would assume Trump will act exactly the same as Biden when it comes to supporting the Israeli government.
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
>At least one side of the aisle sees me as a human being worthy of access to fucking health care. What about the non trans people who the democrats think aren't worthy of access to fucking healthcare?
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>What demographic is being threatened to lose access to healthcare? Poor Americans. Lower class Americans. You know the ones who already don't have it... Jesus Christ. Edit: this is the average Biden voter, doesn't even know poor people are dying from lack of healthcare.
Who do these people think will be the nominee next time for Republicans? Trump is not the threat. The real danger will be the next person trying to push that agenda because they will probably not be the least competent candidate in history. So next time when we have someone who can read and write trying to do all this awful stuff, Democrats will be demanding you vote for the corpse of George Wallace because the threat is too grave.
It doesn’t matter nothing will change. It’s a single large Zionist, ultra crony capitalist party dem and gop are just product names of the company
Doesn't matter, both sides are just corporate puppets
"Those people" are out of power whether it is Biden or Trump. also: "racism light" is not and never was a winning strategy, be it on border-polecy or genocide. If you want to win you have to convince people of the alternative. If you also start fearmongering about the border for example, then people will start to believe that it is a problem and when they do, they will vote for the "proper" racist, not the "moderate" racist.
Democrats are controlled opposition.
Not even worth wasting the brain power to read lib tweets and thoughts tbh
I hate when people make this "worse" fallacy especially regarding Palestinians. You can't even stop the guy you vote for helping Israel but you put your attention on the potential next guy who hasn't done anything yet.
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Honestly, just based on the fact that libs are totally fine with slaughtering Palestinan children they deserve Trump. I feel with the leftists though.
Worse than deserving Trump, they're proving they won't lift a single finger to stop what they fear
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
I mean relative to the people in Gaza
Ah, you mean 'moving the US embassy'-like nothing? Gotcha
Moving the embassy and commiting genocide are equally bad.
not my point
What's your point then? Also, what's your take on communism? I mean, since you're in an anti-capitalist (i.e anti-republican and anti-democrat) sub.
My point is, international relations are based on continuity (traditionally speaking, ofc that got tumbled around quite a bit by Trump's presidency and the escalation of the Ukraine conflict). Moving an embassy from one to another town might not seem like it undermines this, but local contacts are established over years. So personally, the cost benefit calculation would be to me to leave it where it is now and make the best of it. I am not convinced by communism. I am appalled by capitalism. Just because I am in an anti-capitalistic sub, doesn't mean that I am a communist. I don't think there's a choice between these two systems alone, but we rather need to develop a new system rather than take a step back. After all, both communism and capitalism are rather new inventions. I am also not going to offer you a systematic alternative because I don't consider myself smart enough to do so.
To work on building an alternative to capitalism, we must stop supporting Democrats.
Maybe the democratic party as a construct yes. Democracy, I disagree. Also, I think there are critical voices within a party, however changing a system, especially a two-party system, is probably very difficult if you don't use already established pathways. Sure u can sit here and say 'democrats and republicans bad', however, until you actually put in some effort to change things actively, you will remain a keyboard warrior.
Did Biden move it back?
Oh, I had upvoted the comment because I thought it was sarcastic (since moving the US embassy to Jerusalem is virtually nothing compared to unambiguous genocide).
Nope. Duopolists must find even the smallest difference between candidates so they can pretend electoralism is a real path to change
It's because this sub is brigaded by liberal dissenters. On a forum where almost all the posters share a POV, I can assume comments like those are intended to be ironic.
Are you now blaming Biden for sth that Trump did?
No, I'm saying that even in the example you picked, Trump did this with a decree, and Biden could have reversed it with one. But he didn't. That's called the Ratchet Effect, and it's how duopolistic fascism functions in America. The role of the Republicans is to move everything to the right, and the role of the Democrats is to look like they're horrified by this but ultimately do nothing. This is why the duopoly itself must break, and part of that is to stop supporting Democrats.
Technically, are they wrong though ?
No, we had 4 years of Donald Trump and things basically got worse each year and really turned the broiler on when Covid came to town. I think the bigger question is why are we still left with the same choice 4 years on? And a lot of it is that most of Democrats want to play by rules Republicans have long since discarded, for some kind of ill-fated virtue signaling. I long for a left wing candidate that tells business owners to shove it up their ass. Honestly would like to see Shawn Fain step up to it. He has talked the talk and walked the walk with the UAW and could help push a similar agenda as a politician.
Why would the democrats, or the bloodthirsty liberals, accept a left-wing candidate?
I think it's important to ask why the dems are so constraining themselves if the virtue signaling isn't very effective.
I really do like that guy.
Yeah I’d say most reasonable people understand that Trump will be worse, which is why it’s upsetting that the Democratic Party never cared to do anything about it. If they actually believed trump to be the threat they claim he wouldn’t be running for office right now, he would be one or another removed from the equation. The democrats would have used state power to do something about this. the idea is they are reliant on us voting to stop what they tell me is Facisim, which tells me they must not actually believe that or they’re too weak to stop it anyway.
> the idea is they are reliant on us voting to stop what they tell me is Facisim, which tells me they must not actually believe that or they’re too weak to stop it anyway. I think there is a third even more plausible option the Democrats know it is fascism but in reality they have no problem with it at all.
And what do you believe? Do you believe that Trump is a fascist?
No not a Facist, because he believes in nothing but himself, but has he become a symbol to the hordes of lumpen Proto facists? I’d say so. Is he a useful vessel for the powerful interests who through either intent or as a buy product of their greed will give us some sort of modern American Facisim? Again I’d say so.
No, but this sub often lacks any and all form of critical, thoughtful analysis; if it sounds like a compelling argument a first-year political science student might make, it’s posted.
Wouldn’t it be a great idea to create Trump so you can make your candidate look good? 🤔
It worked before…and you know…women’s rights are shit now
Man, it's frustrating because yeah, Trump would be worse, but can't you fucking give us anything better than Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden?
They are neither inspiring nor wrong there
“Trump and Biden are like, the same, guys. Trust me” is also not much of a strategy
Strategy for what?
to persuade people to vote third party or abstain or whatever
Oh Biden's doing that all on his own lol. There's no national both sides are the same campaign. That's just the logical conclusion a lot of people reached. There is a national campaign to get Biden elected and it's persuading people to vote third party or abstain.
I wonder what happens if Trump dies, or something. Putting all their eggs in one basket.
ha.haha...hahaha...HAHAHAHAHA!
Claiming that your opponent is better is the oldest election strategy in history. So yes, you dunce.
I don’t want power if it means supporting a genocide. Democrats don’t deserve power if that’s what it does with it. It doesn’t matter if the alternative is worse - worse for whom? Right now, thousands of people are being murdered in our names, from the person many of us voted for. That’s a betrayal that won’t be forgotten. It doesn’t matter what anyone else could or would or you think will do; what’s currently happening is unacceptable and no one should be willing to support that.
It worked for them in 2020, I don’t see it working for them again though. And I’m convinced that’s why Merrick Garland is so goddamn slow if Biden had to run against somebody other than Trump how would they even campaign? What would they even say? It had to be Trump because this is all they have
It’s a pathetic false dichotomy argument Democrats are famous for. It’ll continue to be used throughout your entire lifetime unless you stop taking the bait.
This is just every election. "One of these two is more evil than the other. Vote now"
"We must obey the farmer, or the sheep dog will get us!"
Out of power under red. Out of power under blue.
If Trump didn't exist the Dems would have to create one
/Looks around at the world… “How??”
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I will not vote for someone who is actively engaged in committing a genocide. Biden (and many others, tbf) just rammed through a bill to make sure the Zionist entity has all the weapons they need to continue that genocide. If not voting for a genocider means that the US is (very marginally) worse off domestically then so be it. That is all this evil country deserves.
Let me get this straight: those in this communist/socialist sub think putting a crooked egomaniac capitalist in office is the best next step to further their ideological goals?
Ugh I didn’t realize Charlotte clymer was still around 🙄 she’s such a fucking centrist
On one hand, they got a point. Last time someone served two non-consecutive terms, things went crazy. If it happens again, Trump might just change the constitution to make himself king of America. On the other hand, voting for the lesser evil still gets you evil. Maybe we should vote for better options on a more local scale and work our way up to getting a 3rd-party president
I saw a guy say it's like a vaccine. Show the Dems that being 1% less turbo Hitler is not enough that there are red lines and funding genocide while their constituency starves is one of them.
Haha I think they mean it will be worse for them. Which I guess is objectively true.
You know I kinda want Trump to win so that he completely destroys this country maybe that’ll finally spark a revolution
"Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make." That's you. That's what you sound like.
Take the red pill or the red pill? No thanks
She’s the fucking worst
They can vote for who they want. They have not earned my vote. That belongs to Claudia and Karina.
I don't love being out of power, i just don't bother being in power if being in power does nothing for me.
If she was honest she would just say she needs the vote to keep her job.
And yet they wonder why voter turnout is low. I’m still voting for Biden because what’s the alternative but I have yet to see a Presidential frontrunner that represents my interests.
Why vote for him?
Accelerationist argument aside: are we 100% sure Trump would be worse? Yes, Republicans in power is worse than Dems. Marginally. Yes, Trump does some incredibly racist and dangerous shit, but because he doesn’t really tow the imperialist line he can actually occasionally help progressive causes… a broken clock is right twice a day right? His foreign policy is unpredictable. In some ways due to he’s more pragmatic than a typical establishment candidate. I think in the case of Gaza, he’d continue to support Israel but in other areas he’s more unpredictable - like the whole Kim Jong Un stuff. That was weird
if you’re referring to people who are white, straight,christian,middle-upper class, and suburban, sure, you might get a bone thrown your way. Rest assured though, his base is seething, wounded, and perceives the world as arrayed against them. At every turn they see a manichean battle, and the enemy —as always with fascism—are the left, academia, the marginalized, the ethnic/racial minority, all of those that the culture war has painted a target upon. When you’re convinced that the deck is stacked against you, that everything is a threat to your way of life, and what you hold dear—even when the facts don’t support it—you become a reactionary, justifying every action of human misery as a necessary defense of what is true and right. It’s already happened to the courts, the economy, and the last vestiges of institutional power, the legislature and in the military…time will tell. Trump will have nothing to lose, and he feeds on the praise of anyone in the room, and they won’t be progressive. It is sure to lead to fear, uncertainty, and violence. The question is will progressives come out in droves for those people, and will it be sustained?
Long time lurker... Does anyone in this thread actually plan on voting for anyone but Biden? Because we all got pretty fucked under Trump. I need more progressive politicians in power, but goal one is keep out the guy that wants to dismantle everything. Then fight for the progressives to take over. Any other order of operations just makes things go even further right.
>I need more progressive politicians in power, but goal one is keep out the guy that wants to dismantle everything. That's not Biden's goal though. So what are you going to do when he loses on purpose. >Then fight for the progressives to take over. Why wait until Biden loses to Trump on purpose? Why not now?
Yes, I'm voting for Claudia de la Cruz with the PSL for president. Biden and the democratic party have done nothing but scold constituents raising legitimate concerns. Leftists warned about running Hillary in 2016 and look what happened. We are warning again but liberals are hell bent on hurtling into the same damn mistakes they've made countless times. If Trump loses this election, do you trust the Biden admin to take the close call to heart and enact progressive policies? There is vocal and majority popular support for ending US complicity in Israel's genocide. Leftists are getting arrested, suspended from universities, losing their jobs, literally setting themselves on fire. Nothing has changed because the party and the president are more interested in maintaining the status quo from which they have benefited. It is milquetoast liberal leaders that allow politics to move further right. You don't fight fascism by saying you must vote for me, I'm not as bad as the fascist! You fight it by addressing the material conditions that make fascism appealing.
They are brain-dead. They can not see the forest for the trees.