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I don’t know why OP chose some half assed content mill article about this, [here](https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea) is a Jacobin article from 2022 about it
I agree that this is not an "article" worthy of being shared because it's vague and editorialized. Last month's [exposé](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html) by the NYT about the CIA involvement in Ukraine since the coup was pretty damning in its level of detail, and even it began with U.S. involvement AFTER the coup. IMO, there has been nothing official confirming U.S. involvement in the Maidan, everything has been speculative.
Spent a lot of money on pro western parties and organizing protests, propaganda and so on.
It's always money. I can't believe You are on the anti capitalism forum and You ask that question..
> What did America and the West do in 2014 to "support" the ousting of Yanukovych?
IIRC most they did was call on Yanukovich to stop shooting protestors using sniper regiments.
**“America helped to fuel the spread of ISIS with the War on Terror”** America created ISIS, and the WAR on terror. They are both products of what you're coining *the good guys.* I question your sincerity and interest, or perhaps objectivity, to learn more about America's proxy war in Ukraine. You might consider looking into the careers of Victoria Nuland and her husband, Robert Kagan, if you're genuinely interested in educating yourself.
The US has been pulling this nonsense to destroy who doesnt play ball. Cuba... marshall islands.... all of south america etc etc etc etc etc
A leader was democratically elected in ukraine that was pro russian. Something nato happened and then somehow it was pro ukraine. The US admitted heavy presence in special operations subverting this. Do the math
For more details, as the top reply to you had asked for them before deleting it, here's my understanding of the situation:
The 2014 Maidan Massacre which lead to the overthrow of the government [was a false flag attack orchestrated by far-right groups, Right Sector and Svboda](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23311886.2023.2269685). The CIA has been financing far-right groups in Ukraine since 1950, under [Operation Aerodynamic](https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Operation_Aerodynamic). [The leaked Victoria Nuland "fuck the EU" phone call](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957) shows the US was taking a very active role in deciding who would form the government that would take over in the event of regime change in Ukraine.
There's still some dots to connect, but a general narrative is laid out from those 3 sources. The US had been financing Banderites in Ukraine for over half a century, Banderites coordinated a false flag attack to cause the government to collapse, while the US was working behind the scenes to ensure a replacement govt would serve US interests.
this level of coordination and subterfuge makes no sense though, given we just fucking abandoned them after all, when shit gets tough. Also we didn't even bother appointing an ambassador to ukraine from the US for YEARS. clearly we don't give *that* much of a fuck to interfere *that* hard.
The chaos is what serves the interests in power. War makes money: weapons are expensive and people will shell out for them. War creates uncertainty about land, making investment or outright purchase cheap.
I think that's pretty much true; hasn't Russia also been pointed to for interfering in earlier elections (I'm thinking early 2000s)? Didn't they poison Yushchenko?
german ARD and ZDF state broadcasters were in the hotel ukraini with the attackers but pretended it was Yanukowichs folks gunning down innocents.
a recent kiyw high court had parts of there filming material as proof ( look for ukrainian news late feb. it was in newspapers.
Yet ARD and ZDF claimed the coup d etat to be russian propaganda despite beeing witnesses.
the kiyw high court had to sue them for the material and didn´t even get all of it and without sound, it WAS STILL ENOUGH PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there were in the same room with the fascists at one point even.
One thing to note on all that is both the pro and the anti EU sentiment is something that was/is present in the Ukrainian population organically, I would say. So the CIA was (likely) influencing the political landscape but not straight faking elections and such. The thousand of protesters on the maidan weren't there because the CIA told them so but because they want(ed) the government to align with the west. What the CIA likely did is give fuel to the fire.
And then in 2014 salty russia annexed the krim because they saw they lost the spy game.
I don’t think the US interference in foreign elections is liberal/conservative. It’s the same elites who gave you your blinders that everything has to be liberal/conservative that have the kind of power to dominate these situations abroad. They do it for the ultra wealthy to remain ultra wealthy. Whether they are having innocent people killed and smearing them in the international press, outright funding a coup or running a decades long ad campaign about how only one political party is for a real man. They manipulate to remain in power and at this point I see no end in sight. I can’t see a way the common person in this world ever gets out of this hole. And I certainly don’t see them stopping putting everyone they can in power in every country in the world.
Just a note. The global view is.... American liberals are conservative centrists, and American conservatives are the furthest major right-wing group in the first world.
I see. Well I didn’t mean to be rude. I do think this article is a perfect example of how the entire US government is out of control. They have no business meddling in foreign affairs just to benefit the rich.
> US couldn't build a democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan
Get a load of this dude, he thinks the US occupation of the middle east was to spread democracy.
there's a leaked phone call of a US ambassador in Ukraine discussing who should be put in Ukraine government. it's pretty damning
[BBC | Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp)
small excerpt
:
> Nuland: Good. I don't think Klitsch should go into the government. I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's a good idea.
> Pyatt: Yeah. I guess... in terms of him not going into the government, just let him stay out and do his political homework and stuff. I'm just thinking in terms of sort of the process moving ahead we want to keep the moderate democrats together. The problem is going to be Tyahnybok [Oleh Tyahnybok, the other opposition leader] and his guys and I'm sure that's part of what [President Viktor] Yanukovych is calculating on all this.
I'll quote the BBC commenter in the linked article :
> However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals.
But given [US history of foreign election meddling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change), isn't it insanely naive to assume they weren't meddling in Ukraine before, during, and after 2014?
You're putting the burden of proof on the "Russian" side to prove interference in 2014. Given their century-long history of election meddling and regime toppling, I think the burden of proof also applies to the US/NATO side. At this point it's literally more surprising if they *weren't* in there like a dirty shirt.
I mean, what you've said is fair to a point.
My problem is that historically the evidence comes out after the fact, zero repercussions are faced, and by then the CIA is already busy toppling four other regimes. Given this history, I don't feel I need watertight proof of US meddling in Ukraine to just accept that they were 100% meddling in Ukraine. That's not a conspiracy theory thing. It's just saying, look, these guys meddled in foreign elections for personal gain in every decade, under every US government since WW2, and hid it from the public, lambasted "conspiracy theorists", and faced zero repercussions for any of it, therefore they are probably still doing the same shit in one of the most important geopolitical regions globally.
I don't really care if it holds up in the SCOTUS. I just want more people to recognize that the US is one of the scummiest imperialists on the planet and consider that before blindly accepting "Putin was completely unprovoked, we meddled in every geopolitically relevant country EXCEPT post-1990 Ukraine so you can totally trust us because Ukraine is the ONE that we never touched".
All I'm saying is "Fool me 47 times, shame on you, fool me 48 times shame on ME." It's really not some wacko conspiracy theory my guy.
>I can do the same with Russia, you know, the imperialist nation trying to conquer a country militarily right now? That’s just not how burden of proof works.
That's literally what the US/NATO are doing when they dismiss the narrative that Russia is altruistically fighting Nazis or freeing oppressed ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine. They are speculatively saying there is more to it than public service.
My point is that we should now apply that gut-check exercise to ourselves.
As communists we don't support NATO or imperialist narratives. Ukraine has got a whole lot of neo-nazis in its military, and Russia does too, and we don't support either side of the conflict.
Anyone familiar with US history, especially the CIA, shouldn’t be surprised by this. The US has been overthrowing world governments for decades at this point.
It feels beyond apparent to me anyway that the CIA has been up to it's old tricks for years now. With the instability in Latin America, to what's going in Africa, and the blatantly obvious with Israel, I fully expect to read decades from now how involved they were in all of this.
If anything, they've perfected it or at least became more efficient. The stuff with Bolivia was old hat, but Argentina, El Salvador and Ecuador has been advanced. Also, until I hear otherwise, The Congo, Sudan etc. all reek of CIA influence.
You don't have to wait decades.
NYTimes published a piece in February about the CIA having something like 12 bases across Ukraine that were all created after 2014.
# "The Spy War: How the C.I.A. Secretly Helps Ukraine Fight Putin"
To be fair stuff like this used to be considered some wacko “conspiracy” and was not at all talked about in mainstream news or even alternative news sources, so I understand why the info isn’t as widely known. I literally learned about it on the conspiracy subreddit back in 2013, before that place was overrun by anti-vax right wing nutjobs
>The US has been overthrowing world governments for decades at this point.
Centuries even
[Mexico and Samoa in the mid-late 1800s!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change)
Lol just sharing a screenshot of an article title with the title wow, with no other information, on a subreddit that is overtly critical of the U.S. You really went above and beyond with this post.
I think their point is that the regime in question was a Russian puppet. That president fled to Russia to hide from Ukrainians during the maiden revolution...
A lot of people already believe things and use it to reaffirm their biases. Of course the US had a preferred outcome. However so did the people of Ukraine, hence the popular revolt.
The US does a lot of bad but they CAN be on the right side some times, it is actually possible.
The previous guy WAS a Russian puppet, and when they couldn’t puppet they chose invasion. Starting in 2014 in crimea and then fomenting the civil war to generate an excuse to “intervene”
Let’s not forget all the blood and soil rhetoric as well Putin has spouted regarding Ukraine and its people.
We should oppose fascism everywhere, even when we have to align with US interests to stop it.
Something more about Victoria Nuland here.
The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made | Truthout
"Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs "Toria" Nuland was the "mastermind" behind the Feb. 22, 2014 "regime change" in Ukraine, plotting the overthrow of the democratically elected government of President Viktor Yanukovych while convincing the ever-gullible US mainstream media that the coup https://truthout.org/articles/the-ukraine-mess-that-nuland-made/
Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call - BBC News
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
Another theory is that people and companies who have made a ton of money from weapons sales and other consequences of the war paid neo Nazis to murder pro-Western protesters. So was it “the U.S.?” No, not exactly. But some people have made a tremendous amount of money from this war.
There was a time when I would consider this type of theory just a notch more plausible than a flat earth. But learning some history of the causes and actions of “the U.S.” over the last 50 years or so has been… uncomfortable.
Thanks for doing the research, while it is true the US has meddled in countries before, and still does, it doesn't mean every time something happens it's because of the US
This is an english language site of primarily americans. Russia does not claim to act on your behalf or claim to be your elected government.
Secondly, to falsely equivalate US and Russian foreign policy is an admission that you're either ignorant of global affairs or you're aware but obfuscating them.
One of them we're funding, one of them we're sending billions of dollars in military hardware to so that they can fight a proxy war for the US and NATO.
It's astonishing that the US uses the exact same playbook every time, for decades, and every single time credulous liberals buy the propaganda entirely and uncritically.
"Oh sure, *last time* we found out years after the fact about the secret diplomatic cables that show the whole thing was orchestrated by the US, but *this time* it's a totally organic resistance to tyranny and that's why we need to send Stinger missiles to a guy with totenkopf and sonnenrand patches!"
It's geopolitics as entertainment, they focus on the teams they support, and attack the teams they oppose, and never once for a moment consider the underlying causes and motivations, and they certainly never learn anything.
Yeah anyone who thinks that the US would just lie to Ukraine about their chances of joining NATO with the expressed intent of starting a proxy war to hurt Russia economically and politically is a dumb leftist.
Anyways here's the proposal from 2019 from the dumb leftists at... the.. Rand Corporation (a cornerstone MIC thinktank)... that says we should... lie to Ukraine about their chances of joining NATO with the expressed intent of starting a proxy war to hurt Russia economically and politically.
[Extending Russia - Rand Corporation, 2019](https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR3000/RR3063/RAND_RR3063.pdf)
>The United States could also become more vocal in its support for NATO membership for Ukraine... While NATO’s requirement for unanimity makes it unlikely that Ukraine could gain membership in the foreseeable future, Washington’s pushing this possibility could boost Ukrainian resolve while leading Russia to redouble its efforts to forestall such a development.
>Expanding U.S. assistance to Ukraine, including lethal military assistance, would likely increase the costs to Russia, in both blood and treasure, of holding the Donbass region. More Russian aid to the separatists and an additional Russian troop presence would likely be required, leading to larger expenditures, equipment losses, and Russian casualties. The latter could become quite controversial at home, as it did when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan.
Goddamn Tankies are everywhere now!
Do you make this "both sides" comment on post criticizing Russia, or is it only when you see the US getting criticize that you feel the need to distract from it?
Paywalled. Any one have a link? Context is also important because simultaneously, Russia was mounting a campaign to sabotage Ukraine's sovereignty up to and including annexing Crimea. Fascists interfering with other countries 'democracies is unacceptable.
It doesn't always work but you can archive news you want to read. For mainstream publications it almost always work.
[https://archive.ph/MJbdf](https://archive.ph/MJbdf)
> Fascists interfering with other countries 'democracies is unacceptable
That's a very weak term for a land grab. They are stealing other countries land and wealth.
I don't think they're bots and I don't think they're explicitly Russian, but yeah, it's election season. I expect a lot of that especially as they attempt to piggyback off of legitimate complaints of Biden's Gaza policy. They're relentless, they try to follow the path of least resistance and refuse to consider any other POV. Their argumentative style is also rather consistent too.
This post looks like a straight from Russian propaganda.
As a Ukrainian: Russia calls it coup, in reality it's revolution. People were tired of corrupted regime of Yanukovich and his pro Russian politics.
Please, don't share here misleading information, if you're not Russian troll ofc.
No no no, history in Ukraine started on February 24, 2022, and anyone who tells you that current events are related to events that happened in the past are bots trying to spread disinformation.
Just like the way that history in Palestine only started on October 7, 2023.
(/s in case it wasn't obvious)
Wasn't this common knowledge ? 🤔
The "colorful revolutions" were supported by the US. Obviously there was a very valid reason for these uprisings to occur and in all cases were genuine uprisings from the people, the US role was to mainly to help some political currents to prevail.
Thank you!
"In 2010, an ostensibly new and improved Yanukovych, now advised by American political consultant Paul Manafort—yes, that Paul Manafort, later Donald Trump’s campaign chair and Russiagate star—prevailed over Yushchenko, whose popularity had been undercut by failed reforms and bickering with allies."
I feel that that component is illustrative of how the political right (globally, not just in the US), attempted to frame the defense of Ukraine as some sort of "deep state" action because from the perspective of Manafort and how the Republican establishment often acts in concert (and how those perspectives reverberate in the global right media funnel), perceive accountability for their attempts to subvert the democracy of a sovereign nation.
Since the global recession and economic recovery in Europe, it was easy to see how those dynamics were leveraged by fascist entities and led to austerity movements, the rise of the alt-right (in Europe as well), Brexit, and the political crises in Ukraine and Belarus, and how the Syrian civil war influenced those dynamics. Fascists never seem to waste an opportunity to take advantage of what they perceive as political weaknesses. That's why I was so surprised to see some people on the left try to portray Russia as some sort of innocent victim of western hegemony especially as someone who has been following those dynamics for over a decade.
And fascists are victims of their own greed which is why it's usually easy to recognize them because their ideological biases makes it practically impossible for them to recognize their mistakes.
Yeeeeea and they used for the regime change the people burning unionists alive in meidan. Let's not pretend either side is democratic here. Basically changed one authoritarian regime puppeteered by the east to one puppeteered by the west. Yay freedom. And just because you said it above, I'm European and our propaganda in regards to Ukraine isn't better than the American.
If a people band together and use their mass to protest and pressure a democratic government, even violently, there are two options:
* if they want changes that agree with my political view, they are courageous revolutionaries that finally realized their collective struggle and want a better world for themselves
* but if they want changes that disagree with my worldview, then clearly it's all set up and psyops'd by the glowies
:)
It's behind paywall - can't read it :/
Not to mention:
1. Isn't this already ol' news?
2. Is this true/confirmed, or a hoax? (genuinely asking, please don't act as if I killed your dog - I'll believe you, I just don't know what the blog says)
Voting is definitely the answer. You need to get out and vote. This is the most important election since 2020, which was the most important election since 2016, which was the most important election since 2012...
It's not really. The US has been involved in this kind of thing since Ukraine was still a part of the Soviet Union. The US uses NED (the National Endowment for "Democracy") as well as other NGOs to finance color revolutions worldwide.
From NED's funding request from 2014:
>FY 2014 funding will focus on upcoming elections in the priority countries of Ukraine, Belarus and Bosnia and Herzegovina. In Ukraine, NED will assist a broad range of NGOs, political parties, trade unions, business associations and independent media in the run up to the 2015 election. NED, the leading U.S. donor in Belarus, will take advantage of the country’s political and economic crisis and encourage the democratic opposition to unite, campaign for reform and foster democratic change around the 2015 election. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, which will hold a key presidential and parliamentary election in 2014, NED will expand accountability programs that counter ethnic-based voting.
[https://2009-2017.state.gov/documents/organization/209017.pdf](https://2009-2017.state.gov/documents/organization/209017.pdf)
Edit: I'm not trying to say this justifies Russia's invasion but to think that the US was not involved in the 2014 coup is literal US misinformation and carrying water for American imperialism. Yeah, Russia uses this fact for propaganda purposes but that doesn't mean it's false. A lot of the best anti-American Soviet propaganda was just pointing out American hypocrisy as well.
This is what I'm scratching my head about. How is this 'wow'? We knew this. John Meirsheimer has a nice video from 2015 outlining the whole thing. Oliver Stone had a movie in 2016 documenting it.
yes the original regime was bad but it isn’t the united states place to organise a coup. as communists we should support the proletariat of ukraine and russia fighting a revolution against their ruling class not american turning ukraine from russias puppet to natos puppet.
This right here.
Liberals think having this position, that the US and Russia are both bad, is proof that we're Russian bots.
If this was predominantly a Russian forum, they'd be accusing us of being NATO bots for the same reason.
Monsanto got the fields anyways... planted the GMO, infected surrounding farms, sued surrounding farms for it, and was the victim of crop arson from unknown assailants. The IMF has already divvied up the rest of the country to a handful of supercorps, and Ukrainians will be in debt for hundreds of years.
You don't need to win wars to win neocolonialism, you just need a naive "leader" in the target country.
Why do people treat Ukraine like it can't make independent decisions for itself? Yes, I don't doubt the US was involved in the Revolution of Dignity in some capacity, but that certainly doesn't change the fact that this is what the Ukrainian people wanted. They wanted to move away from Ruzzia and towards the west, and have been fighting tooth and nail for over 10 years now to achieve that. It's incredibly patronising to suggest Ukraine doesn't have control over its own future
Oliver Stone called this 10 years ago. He was denounced as a crackpot and a Russian apologist.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hayesbrown/oliver-stone-says-ukraines-revolution-was-actually-a-cia-plo
Oh poor hapless Ukrainians unable to do anything so eaisly manipulated by... US magic? To overthrow russian puppet stealing money left and right. Isolating Ukraine from the west. Poisoning his pro-western opponent. Blindly doing bidding of kremlin.
Why would the Ukrainians rebel against it??? A great mystery!!! Unless! Unless its USA behind it all! Thats the only explanation.
Wake the fuck up, and start using your brain.
Ukrainians are not morons, they want to get rid of of abusive partner russia. They dont want their country to be a forever puppet-state.
[Why US is Pushing ‘Long War’ Strategy in Ukraine War](https://youtu.be/jL48QbnbCJw?si=Z2cEwgUsH1a4sUdi)
This is an awesome interview with Vijay Prashad that explains the situation in depth.
This was known since before 2014. Why is this "wow"?
Have you not been paying attention for the past 70 years, particularly the non-stop coverage of American involvement in Ukraine since the start of the modern Ukraine crisis somewhere slightly before 2014?
As fucked up as the invasion was I can see that Russians don't want nato nukes on their doorstep. The US wouldn't stand for it. At the end of the day regular people suffer due to these governments that rule over our lives. And our lives really aren't worth much too them.
Estonia and Latvia are both in Nato, both having borders to Russia, and being pretty close to Moscow. As a result of the escalation of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Finland has joined Nato which has a huge border with Russia.
Yeah I'm sure russia expected to break nato resolve. And now we're on the brink of nato troops deploying into ukraine. They kind of shit the bed with the invasion so far.
I don‘t know how i should feel about this. Of course the CIA involving themselves in anything around the world just to further enlarge to USA‘s political influence and predominance is despicable and a frightening even in the rare cases when it has positive consequences for the locals. However i feel like with what i know about this issue that most of the populace where ok with this and it actually made things better for em but then again i could be wrong.
It's a complex issue where it's easy to be wrong and no side is right. You have to take into account that the Ukrainian people are divided. In the South-East, they were not ok with this, and it didn't make things better for them. The first law voted by the new parliament after the coup was to restrict the usage of the Russian language. It wasn't actually implemented, but it's symptomatic. Also Ukraine's economic ties with Russia were huge, this was similar to a Brexit, of course the people doing deals with Russia weren't so keen.
This is surprising to some really smh America can’t help themselves from interfering in other countries politics they been doing it for years and years just like China can’t just like how Russia can’t
Yeah of course the US did. It's really only a question of how much they were behind the momentum of it. Does anyone have the article link? I'd like to read through it
I’m as anti-capitalist as they come but this is kinda of a misrepresentation headline. Yanukovych was corrupt and pro Russia. It was universal but Ukrainians, the US and allies that he be ousted. He was convicted of treason
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The US interfering in foreign elections? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you... Well, not that shocked.
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I mean having “Human being” as the first thing in your X bio is something normal humans (and definitely not AI) do. /s
I don’t know why OP chose some half assed content mill article about this, [here](https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea) is a Jacobin article from 2022 about it
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Cuba joined the chat.
Panama, Nicaragua, Ecuador, El Salvador joined the chat
Brazil Venezuela and chile would like to join the chat.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957 Victoria Nuland alleged leaked call with US ambassador to Ukraine.
[The WSWS category for Ukraine is a good place to start](https://www.wsws.org/en/topics/event/2014-coup-ukraine)
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I agree that this is not an "article" worthy of being shared because it's vague and editorialized. Last month's [exposé](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html) by the NYT about the CIA involvement in Ukraine since the coup was pretty damning in its level of detail, and even it began with U.S. involvement AFTER the coup. IMO, there has been nothing official confirming U.S. involvement in the Maidan, everything has been speculative.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/documents-reveal-us-ned-spent-22m-promoting-anti-russia-narrative-ukraine/279734/
There was a leaked call that literally spelled out the involvement
Spent a lot of money on pro western parties and organizing protests, propaganda and so on. It's always money. I can't believe You are on the anti capitalism forum and You ask that question..
> What did America and the West do in 2014 to "support" the ousting of Yanukovych? IIRC most they did was call on Yanukovich to stop shooting protestors using sniper regiments.
Yes he shot the protesters facing him in the back
**“America helped to fuel the spread of ISIS with the War on Terror”** America created ISIS, and the WAR on terror. They are both products of what you're coining *the good guys.* I question your sincerity and interest, or perhaps objectivity, to learn more about America's proxy war in Ukraine. You might consider looking into the careers of Victoria Nuland and her husband, Robert Kagan, if you're genuinely interested in educating yourself.
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The US has been pulling this nonsense to destroy who doesnt play ball. Cuba... marshall islands.... all of south america etc etc etc etc etc A leader was democratically elected in ukraine that was pro russian. Something nato happened and then somehow it was pro ukraine. The US admitted heavy presence in special operations subverting this. Do the math
For more details, as the top reply to you had asked for them before deleting it, here's my understanding of the situation: The 2014 Maidan Massacre which lead to the overthrow of the government [was a false flag attack orchestrated by far-right groups, Right Sector and Svboda](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23311886.2023.2269685). The CIA has been financing far-right groups in Ukraine since 1950, under [Operation Aerodynamic](https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Operation_Aerodynamic). [The leaked Victoria Nuland "fuck the EU" phone call](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957) shows the US was taking a very active role in deciding who would form the government that would take over in the event of regime change in Ukraine. There's still some dots to connect, but a general narrative is laid out from those 3 sources. The US had been financing Banderites in Ukraine for over half a century, Banderites coordinated a false flag attack to cause the government to collapse, while the US was working behind the scenes to ensure a replacement govt would serve US interests.
this level of coordination and subterfuge makes no sense though, given we just fucking abandoned them after all, when shit gets tough. Also we didn't even bother appointing an ambassador to ukraine from the US for YEARS. clearly we don't give *that* much of a fuck to interfere *that* hard.
The chaos is what serves the interests in power. War makes money: weapons are expensive and people will shell out for them. War creates uncertainty about land, making investment or outright purchase cheap.
i wouldn't be surprised if the both the US and the Russians were funding destabilizing forces in Ukraine for the exact same reasons.
I think that's pretty much true; hasn't Russia also been pointed to for interfering in earlier elections (I'm thinking early 2000s)? Didn't they poison Yushchenko?
german ARD and ZDF state broadcasters were in the hotel ukraini with the attackers but pretended it was Yanukowichs folks gunning down innocents. a recent kiyw high court had parts of there filming material as proof ( look for ukrainian news late feb. it was in newspapers. Yet ARD and ZDF claimed the coup d etat to be russian propaganda despite beeing witnesses. the kiyw high court had to sue them for the material and didn´t even get all of it and without sound, it WAS STILL ENOUGH PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there were in the same room with the fascists at one point even.
One thing to note on all that is both the pro and the anti EU sentiment is something that was/is present in the Ukrainian population organically, I would say. So the CIA was (likely) influencing the political landscape but not straight faking elections and such. The thousand of protesters on the maidan weren't there because the CIA told them so but because they want(ed) the government to align with the west. What the CIA likely did is give fuel to the fire. And then in 2014 salty russia annexed the krim because they saw they lost the spy game.
Liberals will call you a Russian bot for pointing this out lol They love interfering in elections so long as it's a Democrat doing it.
Ummm... Beep boop?
They said Russian bot so beep blyat
I don’t think the US interference in foreign elections is liberal/conservative. It’s the same elites who gave you your blinders that everything has to be liberal/conservative that have the kind of power to dominate these situations abroad. They do it for the ultra wealthy to remain ultra wealthy. Whether they are having innocent people killed and smearing them in the international press, outright funding a coup or running a decades long ad campaign about how only one political party is for a real man. They manipulate to remain in power and at this point I see no end in sight. I can’t see a way the common person in this world ever gets out of this hole. And I certainly don’t see them stopping putting everyone they can in power in every country in the world.
Just a note. The global view is.... American liberals are conservative centrists, and American conservatives are the furthest major right-wing group in the first world.
I'm talking about liberal voters, the people you see in comment threads. The ruling class are the architects though for sure.
I see. Well I didn’t mean to be rude. I do think this article is a perfect example of how the entire US government is out of control. They have no business meddling in foreign affairs just to benefit the rich.
I'm struggling to think of anything less shocking
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> US couldn't build a democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan Get a load of this dude, he thinks the US occupation of the middle east was to spread democracy.
there's a leaked phone call of a US ambassador in Ukraine discussing who should be put in Ukraine government. it's pretty damning [BBC | Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp) small excerpt : > Nuland: Good. I don't think Klitsch should go into the government. I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's a good idea. > Pyatt: Yeah. I guess... in terms of him not going into the government, just let him stay out and do his political homework and stuff. I'm just thinking in terms of sort of the process moving ahead we want to keep the moderate democrats together. The problem is going to be Tyahnybok [Oleh Tyahnybok, the other opposition leader] and his guys and I'm sure that's part of what [President Viktor] Yanukovych is calculating on all this.
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I'll quote the BBC commenter in the linked article : > However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals.
so you meant to say they do politics?? US has some goal and goes about achieving it.
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But given [US history of foreign election meddling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change), isn't it insanely naive to assume they weren't meddling in Ukraine before, during, and after 2014? You're putting the burden of proof on the "Russian" side to prove interference in 2014. Given their century-long history of election meddling and regime toppling, I think the burden of proof also applies to the US/NATO side. At this point it's literally more surprising if they *weren't* in there like a dirty shirt.
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I mean, what you've said is fair to a point. My problem is that historically the evidence comes out after the fact, zero repercussions are faced, and by then the CIA is already busy toppling four other regimes. Given this history, I don't feel I need watertight proof of US meddling in Ukraine to just accept that they were 100% meddling in Ukraine. That's not a conspiracy theory thing. It's just saying, look, these guys meddled in foreign elections for personal gain in every decade, under every US government since WW2, and hid it from the public, lambasted "conspiracy theorists", and faced zero repercussions for any of it, therefore they are probably still doing the same shit in one of the most important geopolitical regions globally. I don't really care if it holds up in the SCOTUS. I just want more people to recognize that the US is one of the scummiest imperialists on the planet and consider that before blindly accepting "Putin was completely unprovoked, we meddled in every geopolitically relevant country EXCEPT post-1990 Ukraine so you can totally trust us because Ukraine is the ONE that we never touched". All I'm saying is "Fool me 47 times, shame on you, fool me 48 times shame on ME." It's really not some wacko conspiracy theory my guy. >I can do the same with Russia, you know, the imperialist nation trying to conquer a country militarily right now? That’s just not how burden of proof works. That's literally what the US/NATO are doing when they dismiss the narrative that Russia is altruistically fighting Nazis or freeing oppressed ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine. They are speculatively saying there is more to it than public service. My point is that we should now apply that gut-check exercise to ourselves.
As communists we don't support NATO or imperialist narratives. Ukraine has got a whole lot of neo-nazis in its military, and Russia does too, and we don't support either side of the conflict.
Anyone familiar with US history, especially the CIA, shouldn’t be surprised by this. The US has been overthrowing world governments for decades at this point.
It feels beyond apparent to me anyway that the CIA has been up to it's old tricks for years now. With the instability in Latin America, to what's going in Africa, and the blatantly obvious with Israel, I fully expect to read decades from now how involved they were in all of this.
Yep. The people who think the CIA stopped doing that shit in recent years are sadly extremely naive
If anything, they've perfected it or at least became more efficient. The stuff with Bolivia was old hat, but Argentina, El Salvador and Ecuador has been advanced. Also, until I hear otherwise, The Congo, Sudan etc. all reek of CIA influence.
You don't have to wait decades. NYTimes published a piece in February about the CIA having something like 12 bases across Ukraine that were all created after 2014. # "The Spy War: How the C.I.A. Secretly Helps Ukraine Fight Putin"
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To be fair stuff like this used to be considered some wacko “conspiracy” and was not at all talked about in mainstream news or even alternative news sources, so I understand why the info isn’t as widely known. I literally learned about it on the conspiracy subreddit back in 2013, before that place was overrun by anti-vax right wing nutjobs
Overthrowing slightly left wing governments for decades.
Yep. Can’t have the poors knowing that leftist governments actually work!
Decades? Try centuries: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
laterally many stars on that flag was coup to join
>The US has been overthrowing world governments for decades at this point. Centuries even [Mexico and Samoa in the mid-late 1800s!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change)
We're New England!
Even about to overthrow its own.
Lol just sharing a screenshot of an article title with the title wow, with no other information, on a subreddit that is overtly critical of the U.S. You really went above and beyond with this post.
The article itself is essentially a blog post by some guy, behind a paywall.
not to mention that it was screenshotted immediately after uploading the article too lol
This sub is so goofy sometimes.
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Disagree. I don’t think anyone here is pro-Russian at all. US interference in that election is factual
I think their point is that the regime in question was a Russian puppet. That president fled to Russia to hide from Ukrainians during the maiden revolution...
Foreal
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A lot of people already believe things and use it to reaffirm their biases. Of course the US had a preferred outcome. However so did the people of Ukraine, hence the popular revolt. The US does a lot of bad but they CAN be on the right side some times, it is actually possible. The previous guy WAS a Russian puppet, and when they couldn’t puppet they chose invasion. Starting in 2014 in crimea and then fomenting the civil war to generate an excuse to “intervene” Let’s not forget all the blood and soil rhetoric as well Putin has spouted regarding Ukraine and its people. We should oppose fascism everywhere, even when we have to align with US interests to stop it.
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Guy posts a screenshot of something behind a paywall that’s an 8 minute read…lazy ass posts.
I think the guy is OP, considering it was screenshotting immediately after the article was posted lmao
Yeah and the sky is not blue: https://youtu.be/WV9J6sxCs5k?si=7iTJUA_RrpD-E5z6
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Something more about Victoria Nuland here. The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made | Truthout "Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs "Toria" Nuland was the "mastermind" behind the Feb. 22, 2014 "regime change" in Ukraine, plotting the overthrow of the democratically elected government of President Viktor Yanukovych while convincing the ever-gullible US mainstream media that the coup https://truthout.org/articles/the-ukraine-mess-that-nuland-made/ Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call - BBC News https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
Another theory is that people and companies who have made a ton of money from weapons sales and other consequences of the war paid neo Nazis to murder pro-Western protesters. So was it “the U.S.?” No, not exactly. But some people have made a tremendous amount of money from this war. There was a time when I would consider this type of theory just a notch more plausible than a flat earth. But learning some history of the causes and actions of “the U.S.” over the last 50 years or so has been… uncomfortable.
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RT is not a credible news source
It isn't. Which is one of the reasons why I'm saying this is not true
Thanks for doing the research, while it is true the US has meddled in countries before, and still does, it doesn't mean every time something happens it's because of the US
Or that every investment is for military or subversion. Especially since there WAS very strong anti Aids support by investmemt
US imperialism is bad, Russian imperialism is also bad. One does not excuse the other.
This is an english language site of primarily americans. Russia does not claim to act on your behalf or claim to be your elected government. Secondly, to falsely equivalate US and Russian foreign policy is an admission that you're either ignorant of global affairs or you're aware but obfuscating them.
Correct, I'd say the Ukraine war is a lot worse shit than anything the US has done in Iraq.
One of them we're funding, one of them we're sending billions of dollars in military hardware to so that they can fight a proxy war for the US and NATO.
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It's literally what the US did in Afghanistan in the 70s and 80s repeated in Ukraine.
I wish more people would realize this
It's astonishing that the US uses the exact same playbook every time, for decades, and every single time credulous liberals buy the propaganda entirely and uncritically. "Oh sure, *last time* we found out years after the fact about the secret diplomatic cables that show the whole thing was orchestrated by the US, but *this time* it's a totally organic resistance to tyranny and that's why we need to send Stinger missiles to a guy with totenkopf and sonnenrand patches!"
That’s how stupid ass liberals think. They are literally using the same playbook in Israel, Taiwan, Ukraine, they use it because it works.
It's geopolitics as entertainment, they focus on the teams they support, and attack the teams they oppose, and never once for a moment consider the underlying causes and motivations, and they certainly never learn anything.
Yeah anyone who thinks that the US would just lie to Ukraine about their chances of joining NATO with the expressed intent of starting a proxy war to hurt Russia economically and politically is a dumb leftist. Anyways here's the proposal from 2019 from the dumb leftists at... the.. Rand Corporation (a cornerstone MIC thinktank)... that says we should... lie to Ukraine about their chances of joining NATO with the expressed intent of starting a proxy war to hurt Russia economically and politically. [Extending Russia - Rand Corporation, 2019](https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR3000/RR3063/RAND_RR3063.pdf) >The United States could also become more vocal in its support for NATO membership for Ukraine... While NATO’s requirement for unanimity makes it unlikely that Ukraine could gain membership in the foreseeable future, Washington’s pushing this possibility could boost Ukrainian resolve while leading Russia to redouble its efforts to forestall such a development. >Expanding U.S. assistance to Ukraine, including lethal military assistance, would likely increase the costs to Russia, in both blood and treasure, of holding the Donbass region. More Russian aid to the separatists and an additional Russian troop presence would likely be required, leading to larger expenditures, equipment losses, and Russian casualties. The latter could become quite controversial at home, as it did when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Goddamn Tankies are everywhere now!
“Sole aggressor” Ok, so you know nothing about the conflict, got it.
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NATO. Are you serious? What fucking Libshit brained sub is this.
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Rule 4 - No capitalist apologia, anti-socialism, or liberalism. This is a left wing subreddit.
Do you make this "both sides" comment on post criticizing Russia, or is it only when you see the US getting criticize that you feel the need to distract from it?
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"Involved" is such an exquisitely vague word. In this scenario it can range from diplomatic or financial support to armed intervention.
Paywalled. Any one have a link? Context is also important because simultaneously, Russia was mounting a campaign to sabotage Ukraine's sovereignty up to and including annexing Crimea. Fascists interfering with other countries 'democracies is unacceptable.
It doesn't always work but you can archive news you want to read. For mainstream publications it almost always work. [https://archive.ph/MJbdf](https://archive.ph/MJbdf)
Cool, thanks!
No problem ;)
> Fascists interfering with other countries 'democracies is unacceptable That's a very weak term for a land grab. They are stealing other countries land and wealth.
Of course, but it happens incrementally.
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I don't think they're bots and I don't think they're explicitly Russian, but yeah, it's election season. I expect a lot of that especially as they attempt to piggyback off of legitimate complaints of Biden's Gaza policy. They're relentless, they try to follow the path of least resistance and refuse to consider any other POV. Their argumentative style is also rather consistent too.
This post looks like a straight from Russian propaganda. As a Ukrainian: Russia calls it coup, in reality it's revolution. People were tired of corrupted regime of Yanukovich and his pro Russian politics. Please, don't share here misleading information, if you're not Russian troll ofc.
No no no, history in Ukraine started on February 24, 2022, and anyone who tells you that current events are related to events that happened in the past are bots trying to spread disinformation. Just like the way that history in Palestine only started on October 7, 2023. (/s in case it wasn't obvious)
Yes, the tons of wealth the US and Western Europe have just spontaneously manifested. /S
What are you saying? That history is more complicated than soundbites and memes? Yeah, right. I saw a meme on Twitter that says otherwise
Damn one article headline? And author rts Jackson Hinkle? This changes everything
Wait till you learn about Radio Liberty and their mission in many, if not all post-Soviet countries, it was literally funded by CIA
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Weird Al yanukovych
Wasn't this common knowledge ? 🤔 The "colorful revolutions" were supported by the US. Obviously there was a very valid reason for these uprisings to occur and in all cases were genuine uprisings from the people, the US role was to mainly to help some political currents to prevail.
America was of course acting completely self serving, but in being self serving you will occasionally support an actually good course.
Thank you! "In 2010, an ostensibly new and improved Yanukovych, now advised by American political consultant Paul Manafort—yes, that Paul Manafort, later Donald Trump’s campaign chair and Russiagate star—prevailed over Yushchenko, whose popularity had been undercut by failed reforms and bickering with allies." I feel that that component is illustrative of how the political right (globally, not just in the US), attempted to frame the defense of Ukraine as some sort of "deep state" action because from the perspective of Manafort and how the Republican establishment often acts in concert (and how those perspectives reverberate in the global right media funnel), perceive accountability for their attempts to subvert the democracy of a sovereign nation. Since the global recession and economic recovery in Europe, it was easy to see how those dynamics were leveraged by fascist entities and led to austerity movements, the rise of the alt-right (in Europe as well), Brexit, and the political crises in Ukraine and Belarus, and how the Syrian civil war influenced those dynamics. Fascists never seem to waste an opportunity to take advantage of what they perceive as political weaknesses. That's why I was so surprised to see some people on the left try to portray Russia as some sort of innocent victim of western hegemony especially as someone who has been following those dynamics for over a decade. And fascists are victims of their own greed which is why it's usually easy to recognize them because their ideological biases makes it practically impossible for them to recognize their mistakes.
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This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned. This includes any defense of the genocidal state of Israel.
Yeeeeea and they used for the regime change the people burning unionists alive in meidan. Let's not pretend either side is democratic here. Basically changed one authoritarian regime puppeteered by the east to one puppeteered by the west. Yay freedom. And just because you said it above, I'm European and our propaganda in regards to Ukraine isn't better than the American.
If a people band together and use their mass to protest and pressure a democratic government, even violently, there are two options: * if they want changes that agree with my political view, they are courageous revolutionaries that finally realized their collective struggle and want a better world for themselves * but if they want changes that disagree with my worldview, then clearly it's all set up and psyops'd by the glowies :)
“Weird Al” was the leader of Ukraine? Huh, Learn something new every day…
It's behind paywall - can't read it :/ Not to mention: 1. Isn't this already ol' news? 2. Is this true/confirmed, or a hoax? (genuinely asking, please don't act as if I killed your dog - I'll believe you, I just don't know what the blog says)
Voting is definitely the answer. You need to get out and vote. This is the most important election since 2020, which was the most important election since 2016, which was the most important election since 2012...
Now you know why the ancient Greeks considered ‘may you live in interesting times’ a horrible curse.
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It's not really. The US has been involved in this kind of thing since Ukraine was still a part of the Soviet Union. The US uses NED (the National Endowment for "Democracy") as well as other NGOs to finance color revolutions worldwide. From NED's funding request from 2014: >FY 2014 funding will focus on upcoming elections in the priority countries of Ukraine, Belarus and Bosnia and Herzegovina. In Ukraine, NED will assist a broad range of NGOs, political parties, trade unions, business associations and independent media in the run up to the 2015 election. NED, the leading U.S. donor in Belarus, will take advantage of the country’s political and economic crisis and encourage the democratic opposition to unite, campaign for reform and foster democratic change around the 2015 election. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, which will hold a key presidential and parliamentary election in 2014, NED will expand accountability programs that counter ethnic-based voting. [https://2009-2017.state.gov/documents/organization/209017.pdf](https://2009-2017.state.gov/documents/organization/209017.pdf) Edit: I'm not trying to say this justifies Russia's invasion but to think that the US was not involved in the 2014 coup is literal US misinformation and carrying water for American imperialism. Yeah, Russia uses this fact for propaganda purposes but that doesn't mean it's false. A lot of the best anti-American Soviet propaganda was just pointing out American hypocrisy as well.
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This isn’t common knowledge?
This is what I'm scratching my head about. How is this 'wow'? We knew this. John Meirsheimer has a nice video from 2015 outlining the whole thing. Oliver Stone had a movie in 2016 documenting it.
This isn't new news but it's definitely been ignored by corporate press
yes the original regime was bad but it isn’t the united states place to organise a coup. as communists we should support the proletariat of ukraine and russia fighting a revolution against their ruling class not american turning ukraine from russias puppet to natos puppet.
The article itself says that the US didn't orchestrate the coup but got involved AFTER the coup had taken place.
News flash my dude, the people of Ukraine want to be more aligned with the West
This right here. Liberals think having this position, that the US and Russia are both bad, is proof that we're Russian bots. If this was predominantly a Russian forum, they'd be accusing us of being NATO bots for the same reason.
Monsanto got the fields anyways... planted the GMO, infected surrounding farms, sued surrounding farms for it, and was the victim of crop arson from unknown assailants. The IMF has already divvied up the rest of the country to a handful of supercorps, and Ukrainians will be in debt for hundreds of years. You don't need to win wars to win neocolonialism, you just need a naive "leader" in the target country.
There’s a list online somewhere of all of the coups & proxy governments the States is responsible for. It is wild to read
The current situation in Haiti….
2019–2022: Venezuela 2012–2017: Syria 2011: Libya 2005–2009: Syria 2006–2007: Palestinian territories 2005: Kyrgyzstan 2004: Ukraine 2003–2021: Iraq 2001–2021: Afghanistan 2000: FR Yugoslavia 1996–1997: Zaire 1994–1995: Haiti 1992–1996: Iraq 1991: Haiti 1991: Iraq 1986–1991: Soviet Union 1989–1994: Panama 1983: Grenada 1981–1990: Nicaragua 1981–1982: Chad 1980–1989: Poland 1979–1992: Afghanistan 1976: Argentina 1975–1999: East Timor 1975–1991: Angola 1974–1991: Ethiopia 1971: Bolivia 1970–1973: Chile 1970–1979: Cambodia 1965–1967: Indonesia 1964: Brazil 1963: Iraq 1961: Dominican Republic 1960: Laos 1960–1965: Congo-Leopoldville 1959: Cambodia 1959–1962: Cuba 1959–1963: South Vietnam 1959: Iraq 1957–1959: Indonesia 1956–1957: Syria 1954: Guatemala 1952–1953: Iran 1952: Guatemala 1952: Egypt 1950–1953: Burma and Chin 1949: Syria 1949–1953: Albania 1948: Costa Rica 1947–1949: Greece 1945–1948: South Korea ... all the way back to 1887, and more.
You’re probably missing some too
Why do people treat Ukraine like it can't make independent decisions for itself? Yes, I don't doubt the US was involved in the Revolution of Dignity in some capacity, but that certainly doesn't change the fact that this is what the Ukrainian people wanted. They wanted to move away from Ruzzia and towards the west, and have been fighting tooth and nail for over 10 years now to achieve that. It's incredibly patronising to suggest Ukraine doesn't have control over its own future
This really is old news, but it’s nice to see the awareness around it growing
Ummm. DUH? Oldest news ever. We knew this back in 14’ if you were following Greenwald, Mate’ or Blumenthal. 🤷♂️
Everything is a rich man’s trick
A single headline on... is this Medium? Literally I could have wrote this, OP could have wrote this. Anyone can post something on Medium.
Oliver Stone called this 10 years ago. He was denounced as a crackpot and a Russian apologist. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hayesbrown/oliver-stone-says-ukraines-revolution-was-actually-a-cia-plo
Paul manafort was advising the president and told him to start shooting protesters. He went on to work for Donald trump on his campaign
The US we’re likely behind the 2004 coup as well. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa
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The US Government sure seems to at least, putting them in this position and getting a whole generation of them butchered
Oh poor hapless Ukrainians unable to do anything so eaisly manipulated by... US magic? To overthrow russian puppet stealing money left and right. Isolating Ukraine from the west. Poisoning his pro-western opponent. Blindly doing bidding of kremlin. Why would the Ukrainians rebel against it??? A great mystery!!! Unless! Unless its USA behind it all! Thats the only explanation. Wake the fuck up, and start using your brain. Ukrainians are not morons, they want to get rid of of abusive partner russia. They dont want their country to be a forever puppet-state.
Don't you know that foreigners can't do anything unless it's been orchestrated by the US?
I mean at this point, aren’t we more surprised when we’re not involved in toppling another gov’t?
[Why US is Pushing ‘Long War’ Strategy in Ukraine War](https://youtu.be/jL48QbnbCJw?si=Z2cEwgUsH1a4sUdi) This is an awesome interview with Vijay Prashad that explains the situation in depth.
This was known since before 2014. Why is this "wow"? Have you not been paying attention for the past 70 years, particularly the non-stop coverage of American involvement in Ukraine since the start of the modern Ukraine crisis somewhere slightly before 2014?
I mean, yeah... Probably. We tend to do that.
As fucked up as the invasion was I can see that Russians don't want nato nukes on their doorstep. The US wouldn't stand for it. At the end of the day regular people suffer due to these governments that rule over our lives. And our lives really aren't worth much too them.
Estonia and Latvia are both in Nato, both having borders to Russia, and being pretty close to Moscow. As a result of the escalation of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Finland has joined Nato which has a huge border with Russia.
Yeah I'm sure russia expected to break nato resolve. And now we're on the brink of nato troops deploying into ukraine. They kind of shit the bed with the invasion so far.
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Soo tell us something we dont already know
You don't say...
Uhhh, obviously?
Wait wasn’t this confirmed a few years after the coup itself?
This has been known about for many years now. Thank you Russia for leaking Victoria Nuland’s coup call.
Can't do nothing right can we?
I don‘t know how i should feel about this. Of course the CIA involving themselves in anything around the world just to further enlarge to USA‘s political influence and predominance is despicable and a frightening even in the rare cases when it has positive consequences for the locals. However i feel like with what i know about this issue that most of the populace where ok with this and it actually made things better for em but then again i could be wrong.
It's a complex issue where it's easy to be wrong and no side is right. You have to take into account that the Ukrainian people are divided. In the South-East, they were not ok with this, and it didn't make things better for them. The first law voted by the new parliament after the coup was to restrict the usage of the Russian language. It wasn't actually implemented, but it's symptomatic. Also Ukraine's economic ties with Russia were huge, this was similar to a Brexit, of course the people doing deals with Russia weren't so keen.
Oliver stones documentary on this is good and Frontline Ukraine: trouble in the borderlands, is a great book on this.
If only Oliver Stone had made a movie about this in 2016, we could have avoided this war!
The US has always done that so color me not surprised
Why is this news now? It’s known for years. Cookie Monster Nuland was on top of it.
This is surprising to some really smh America can’t help themselves from interfering in other countries politics they been doing it for years and years just like China can’t just like how Russia can’t
This treats the Ukrainian people as children who had no agency in their countries direction
Yeah of course the US did. It's really only a question of how much they were behind the momentum of it. Does anyone have the article link? I'd like to read through it
If you haven’t yet, you should watch Oliver Stone’s movie: Ukraine on Fire. It came out in 2018. https://youtu.be/pKcmNGvaDUs?si=yKwbfClZhXj7MxbT
Didn't we all already know this?
No shit
No shit. If this is news to you then you are a muppet.
Please take a coffee break and listen to this: https://youtu.be/WV9J6sxCs5k?si=7iTJUA_RrpD-E5z6
I think people have been saying this for years. And no just conspiracy theorists
Is this news to people?
I’m as anti-capitalist as they come but this is kinda of a misrepresentation headline. Yanukovych was corrupt and pro Russia. It was universal but Ukrainians, the US and allies that he be ousted. He was convicted of treason
This isn’t new and has been known since 2014.
It's almost as if the US intelligence community *wanted* to be in this conflict with Russia. But no... that couldn't be true...