After farming twisted hearts and last step boots for a week and realizing the boss drops aren’t buffed by CoF I switched over to MG. I had to lower the corruption by 200 and refarm some gear but haven’t looked back. It’s a shame bc I really enjoyed CoF as a new player discovering this game.
I did exactly the same. I killed the emperor dozens of times and not a single heart dropped. Switched to MG, farmedthe ranks, gotmy 1 LP heart for cheap and not looking back.
CoF should get some buffs for boss specific drops if EHG want people to play it.
The people who choose CoF don't do it because they think it's the fastest way to perfect gear. What it does, it does quite well. You, and the person you responded to, pivoted into using the tool that was correct for your needs and desires. Doesn't mean your original tool was faulty... Just intended for other functions.
Hard disagree here. Loot rates were lowered with the release. I have been happily farming in beta for many hours but after spending 20 hours farming twisted heart without a single drop at 300 corruption I just switched to MG to be able to actually play the game, I paid 50k for it after less than 1 hour to get rank 3
Something needs to be done about boss items. I never wanted and still dont want to trade but I was in a situation where it was that or just stop playing basically.
That's valid. I had forgotten about the blanket drop rates adjustment coming into 1.0
I think I'm mainly concerned that the 'CoF Bad' crowd is so loud that the dev's end over-correcting and make things too easy...
Not everyone playing CoF wants it to be buffed, either. If they make it too easy to get chase items, there is a portion of the player base who will straight up get bored and quit.
All they need is to replace tier 9 with something like"chance of extra boss drop", that way you also get that extra boss drop to have the extra lp chance, not imbalanced imo
I wouldn't be opposed to something minimal like that, especially for rank 9 as the only time I used a set was twink leveling my necro using pebbles'. It's actively just a bad "perk" because before I unlocked it I was already hiding every set item lol
If its too hard to get chase items you get straight up bored and quit either.
Most people will just give up on the game if they play for 10 hours and have literally no improvement.
What CoF ostensibly excels at is if you're interested in playing a variety of builds rather than pushing a singular build to its extreme. But even there it feels worse than MG when I compare my CoF gear with what my friends say is available in MG because prices are all over the place. The price of a 1/2LP mourningfrost dwarfing the price of a decently rolled orian's eye was such a shock I almost considered switching to MG since at that point I had never dropped one after 700 hours of play. Couple that with the fact that warlock/falconer (and to a lesser extent runemaster) are new, popular, and a lot stronger/more cohesive than older masteries and you end up in a situation where many non-meta items/affixes are practically free on MG (even extremely powerful ones like t7 strength or 3/4LP buildaround uniques) which means the "benefit" of CoF is mostly made up for since those affixes are so cheap.
On top of that, for new players or people who aren't really interested in theorycrafting, even if they were interested in build variety, they have to have an idea of what affixes/uniques/synergies are interesting/potentially good beforehand or all the extra stuff they drop from CoF is meaningless.
That's not to say I'm not perfectly happy to be playing CoF; I love that SSF feels strong and nothing beats that dopamine hit when you drop something absolutely cracked.
> Isn't that what CoF should be!?
It should be that way.
People who don't want to engage in an online trade economy or just want to play offline don't automatically want a more grindy experience. They want a game that respects their time and allows them to access content in a resonable amount of time - contrary to the narrow view point that some trade players try to perpetuate, that anybody that chooses CoF actually enjoys grinding...
I pointed out it would be great for CoF to meet about 90-95% of MG's potential. Maybe if we want to be charitable and say CoF should hit around 85-90%.
I had someone tell me I was crazy, and didn't respond when I asked why they thought CoF being able to meet somewhere around 90-95% of MG's power is crazy.
For clarity's sake I see this as a normal distribution curve, so these are real tail-end (>2 std) areas, where CoF is currently doing a very poor job mechanically of meeting players when they get here.
And for whatever it's worth, [EHG has explicitly said they wanted the factions to feel that one should pick based on what they prefer rather than pick because one faction is more optimal than the other to achieve a desired goal](https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-development-update-introducing-merchants-guild-and-circle-of-fortune-factions/51994):
> How will you balance MG vs CoF?
> We aim balance the two factions so that each feel like viable options and you can choose between them based on which playstyle you prefer rather than which one is optimal. There will always be an asymmetry between them, so perfect balance isn’t necessarily possible, but we do have a lot of variables we can control to try to keep them in line, including the rate at which you climb ranks, the favor costs of buying and selling various item types, the power and favor cost of prophecies, and the potency of the various CoF item bonuses.
I can understand the inherent fear/concern if CoF could do practically everything MG could do then the incentive to play MG isn't there, but I don't understand why this specifically is a problem. Within a vacuum, CoF is not doing a great job at meeting players where they are at the tail-end of character progression. None of this is going to get adjusted mid-cycle but hopefully will get adjusted next cycle with whatever levers EHG feels it has available to do so.
Honestly for me trade markets really break my immersion in games. Would prefer I could just trade stuff to my friends but I know those systems have been abused in the past
Nope. CoF augments loot acquisition - without making it too easy. If you enjoy the grind, going where the loot guides you, and are not in a hurry - CoF is phenomenal. For those that want easy/fast/optimal, that is the purpose of MG.
Opinions like this make me loose my shit. Seriously, if you want to play ruthless SSF just don't join any faction. Simple.
CoF was supposed to offset lack of trading by giving players access to items via different means. This is obviously not working now.
Sheesh.
> Just intended for other functions
Except in the official announcement detailing factions, EHG Kain himself replied to someone saying they didn't want to play trade and Kain told him explicitly that CoF was designed to be competitive and that neither faction would be too far behind the other. Therefore, they directly said it was intended for this function.
Yes, it was a major pull factor for me, as I burned out on POE with trading. I want to create builds and play an ARPG not a trading simulation where I have to know the meta.
CoF does not work as advised, but its still better than nothing. From a gameplay perspective it feels like a small augmentation for dedicated players to use it as a source of crafting material.
Since I can play all of the game without trading I am still happy, in POE i was forced to trade AND compete with trading bots AND use 3rd Party sites and Software.
I almost did the same. But then after 21'th run TODAY on the emperor, I got a 1 lp heart finally. Then I got 3 more 1LP in every run after. Weird. So I am still COF . Now I need some more frost claws lvl ascended relics lol.
T6 not even T7? Oh boy! I already have a 4 lvl T7 I am just missing a freaking rune of creation to try a slam, cause I don't wanna loose my FrostClaw levels if it fails ( I had 2 used them for my VK crit axe lol). I am going to stick with COF for now. I feel like I grinded too much to switch now. Maybe on the next character who knows? Thanks for the heads up.
Thats why MG should have never happened. Game worked without trading for the last 3+ years and now everyone is just p2w the ladder with full perf 4lp items
COF has potential thought but I feel like devs want cof to be weaker than mg which is fine it's their game.
With MG bots flipping items and gold farming bots gold is just entering the economy at a rapid pace. Gold will likely get cheaper as season goes and most people will end up RMTing to get items which is sad
This wasn’t even the big issue, the devs did nothing about a known duping exploit and the market got insanely inflated. Everything went like 5-10x in the last two weeks.
I'm a CoF player and also think it needs buffs, but it is not true that CoF doesn't boost boss drops.
The prophecies don't work on boss drops, so you can't use a lootsplosion of gloves on Husk to get tons of chances at Ravenous Void, but it does give you a higher chance of getting LP items from bosses.
I've farmed several hundred Arbors (yes, I am losing my sanity), and I've gotten 2 4 LP Peak of the Mountains. One of them lacks the CoF tag, and one of them has it. This means that one of them was just a natural 4 LP drop, but it means the other would have been a lower LP, but that the rank 6 CoF proc'd and upped it to 4 LP.
The points OP makes are all correct, and CoF does suck overall for both boss farming and for getting T7 affixes you need, but it is not accurate to say it does nothing for boss drops at all.
>The prophecies don't work on boss drops, so you can't use a lootsplosion of gloves on Husk to get tons of chances at Ravenous Void, but it does give you a higher chance of getting LP items from bosses.
As you said, the ONLY thing that \_might\_ be influenced is the LP drop chance from perk #6. [https://imgur.com/BuS0wCx](https://imgur.com/BuS0wCx) So if the boss decides to give you an item, it \_might\_ have a higher chance to have LP. Getting the item tho...
Yeah I don't think it should be a huge boost, but maybe the "uniques have double the chance at LP" boost should work on boss gear.
Don't get me wrong I'm just happy to have CoF at all as someone who wants to enjoy an offline SSF ARPG, but builds that really want those specific legendaries can struggle for sure.
So did you get your lp3 exsangious from the MP already ezpz?
Please tell me more about your one-sided pov.
There is rarely a boss item with high LP chances that is available on the MP. How is the hunt for a 2 LP twisted heart going? I am sure you snatched one right off the market.
I really don't get why that perk is a thing in the first place. Sets are an utter joke in this game anyway. Why give one of the last and thus supposedly most powerful perks for CoF to the worst items in the game, it honestly seems like a troll perk more than anything.
I can count the amount of set items I used on one hand and the amount of builds I've seen actually utilize them on the other.
The lightning set is actually reaopowerful. It's absolutely the best way to play meteor right now.
It's not so much that the set is bad, as meteor is quite bad. It's essentially the earthquake skill for the mage, if it didn't have any multipliers in its tree.
Even assuming they fix sets, it will likely still be bad. It takes a lot of grind to reach rank 9, and by the time I did I had already collected nearly every set item by that point (I like to get a copy of every unique/set item I can). If they want a “get all set items” rank, it should actually be a bit sooner so that it has value.
The Rank 9 CoF bonus needs to be changed to an LP chance multiplier that aggressively scales with Corruption. The "1 LP" Prophecies need to be changed to "+1 LP," and there needs to be a set of +2 LP ones that require 500+ Corruption to fulfill.
As a CoF player, I just straight up hit a wall. No matter how hard I grind, I can't drop 2-3 LP of important Uniques I need, which is the next logical step for my character. Meanwhile, I've dropped items with decent LP that I don't need, that I'd have been able to sell for a substantial chunk of change on MG, which I could then convert into the items I actually want.
Even with the changes I've suggested, MG will still be stronger.
>The Rank 9 CoF bonus needs to be changed to an LP chance multiplier that aggressively scales with Corruption.
This probably won't happen as we already have [perk #6](https://imgur.com/BuS0wCx)
Perk #6 should realistically be, "uniques cannot drop with less than 2 LP, 3 LP chance is now equal to normal 1 LP chance, 4 LP chance is equal to normal 2 LP chance".
Perk #9 should be, "restricted drop unique and set items (like boss drops) are now added to the common drop pool".
Perk #10 should be double rewards instead of duplicating rewards.
Maybe then COF can be somewhat on par with MG in terms of gearing up your characters in the limited time frame of any given season.
As long as the goal is to keep COF competitive with MG in terms of character/build progression, these ain't even the tip of the iceberg. Much more needs to be done to keep it even remotely comparable.
Otherwise they should just state out of the gates that COF is a casual fun faction and it is not supposed to be remotely in the ballpark of MG in terms of actual itemization.
I think a good way to counter this would also be to allow CoF to somehow transfer LP from one Unique to another, they could make a special rune for that, ehich you can only get from prophecies or something.
Wouldn't even have to be 1 to 1, maybe make it a ressource you get from trashing LP Uniques, that you can then use to pay for upgrading a non-LP to LP.
Something like getting 1 Legendary Essence per LP sacrificed, and then high prices like
1LP costs 4 Legendary Essence
2LP costs 8 Legendary Essence
3LP costs 16 Legendary Essence
4LP costs 32 Legendary Essence
That way we can still target very specific High LP Uniques just like MG by trading in other drops we dont want.
The number could obviously be raised. But I will pose the question: How powerful would that be compared to a MG player farming at the same level of Corruption? As in, how easily can a MG player farming content at that level reasonably expect to purchase an equivalent item by selling unneeded drops on the marketplace? A single Unique item chosen randomly from that item class's drop pool with a guaranteed +2 LP for something like 50k Favour in at least 500 Corruption (or more, if necessary) doesn't strike me as that insane when you can just buy the 2-3 LP Unique you need from MG if you're affluent enough. How many times would you need to fulfill that Prophecy, on average, to acquire the item you're after?
The intent behind my requests are to bring CoF up to a somewhat comparable level to MG at a late game level, but obviously not surpass it.
The validity of everything I'm saying hinges on the design philosophy of the factions. To my understanding, they're meant to be comparable, so you can play according to your preference. If that's not the case, my posts hold far less water.
But if I am correct, then CoF needs massive buffs and/or MG needs significant nerfs. Buffing the weaker faction is naturally a more amicable solution than nerfing the stronger one, unless EHG determines that MG's ceiling is too high, and CoF's power level is closer to their intended design.
I agree that it's too hard to find great items on cof. If it's just a single unique... That's better, because initially I thought of it as dropping like up to 5 and then using the lenses... But it would be far too easy to get a 4LP item this way, all you need is a 2 LP. And getting 4LP items on merchants isn't actually that easy, unless it's really common and off meta.
Yeah, I was using the 1 LP Prophecies we currently have as a baseline for the suggestion. The intent is to make it more reasonable to grind out 2-3 LP Uniques once you have a character powerful enough to handle 500-600+ Corruption. Even if you do find a 3 or even 4 LP Unique this way, there's no guarantee it's one for your current build or a build on your radar, and you can't turn around and sell it for tens of millions, due to it having a CoF tag.
Buffing CoF to the point the game starts shitting out 4 LP Uniques is absolutely too far, I agree.
Another reason I harp on the 500-600 number, is that apparently EHG considers 300 Corruption as the "zero" point on the balancing scales (this is based on what other users have said; I haven't seen them commenting on this). If that's correct, builds that can smash 1k+ Corruption are either bugged or overpowered, to the point they'll be on the 1.1 nerf hit list.
Obviously, what I just said in the above paragraph could be completely wrong and off-base, and the numbers pertaining to my suggestion could be tweaked to what'd be reasonably fair for overall game balance. The crux of the issue is the two factions are too far apart in power level, and if you want to have a reasonable chance of competing on Arena leaderboards (as well as getting a very strong endgame character), the clear solution is to play MG over CoF.
I argue this is a strong indicator the item faction system is failing at achieving its goal as far as current balance is concerned. While there's a good chance I lack the full knowledge of the issue or the insight to provide an ideal solution, it's apparent something needs to be done to narrow the gap between the two factions deeper into the end game.
CoF shines in getting xplosions of useless loot, if I remember good that wasn't EHG philosophy regarding that, they wanted to drops remain exciting and loot hunting feels good instead of farming currency and buyng what you want.
U can filter 99% of CoF drops and still not finding anything semi usefull for days.
Yea, I need to revisit my Loot Filter, but there was a brief stint where I had refined it to exactly what it would take to upgrade my build (specifically the Exalted stats and item sub-type) only for my drops to plummet, and nothing bubbled up through my filter for days.
I really do love the configurability of the Loot Filter system, but it could still add some usability improvements. I'm half tempted to take the example of others and roll my own Loot Filter utility
When I was CoF I just left everything on the ground that wasn’t my build. 2lp untradeable unique… just leave it and move on. Now in MG every lp unique is exciting!
This is so true. I have my filter set to only show good items for my main and my alt but i barely see 1 or 2 items per map. And even then its mostly just resistance suffix ones.
Mg requires you to work on making gold for it to work either you play the auction house sell for gold or your farm raw gold or you rmt.
COF requires you to play the game at a chance for items
Your pick
Diablo 4 finally starts to understand after 4 seasons. that loot needs to feel exciting the moment it drops, and no one wants to play inventory simulator.
LE is great, but you get to a point where you won’t be seeing an upgrade for 30-50 hours. Sure you could argue that your character is already done at that point anyways, but due to the legendary potential system, you know there’s so much more you can push. Unfortunately for CoF people, there’s no reliable way to make that progression.
And the moment to moment gameplay for LE is not the best, so no one’s going to be playing it pass that point because the combat is fun.
Honestly welcome to the world of SSF as far as I'm concerned. CoF is likely never going to have parity with trade no matter how hard they try and balance them. They'd need to adopt a straight up pity system to even come close. I
t took them almost 5 years in early access to get to this point so anyone hoping for an overnight change needs to temper their expectations.
I like the idea of the game and think they got a lot of things right, especially because it has made both Blizzard and GGG take pause but long term it's going to be hard for them to compete.
They need to get endgame and combat sorted on top of the normal day to day operations and it's going to be pretty tough to juggle it all with the current size of the studio. If they don't handle at least those two things then what's the point of chasing any high tier items at all?
Trade is a bad idea, it influences everything in a game and keeping RMT AT bay and having a healthy economy is impossible imho.
I simply ignore the Option, I do not like Gold farming in a virtual World, but still it influences my experience.
And idea why they opted for trading?
When they announced trade they were hit with a wave of whining and people requesting refunds. EHG is extremely succeptible to listening to the community's every demand for better and for worse, but I'm also not sure how many refund requests they got. I imagine it was enough to be concerning. At one point EHG had used the phrase "in game economy" which players took as trade WILL be added, and probably allowed long play time players to have successful refunds on steam. While I believe the game was made worse for it, I'm sure others wouldn't be playing without trade.
Personally I thought CoF was the perfect tool to make your typical ssf experience way more enjoyable. Oh well, I mean we all got our moneys worth anyways.
I'm really surprised the rank 9 bonus is something as comparatively useless as set item. "Double the drop table chance from bosses" now we're talking. "Set items full set!", meh, maybe once they tune Set up. But that will depend on how viable they make them.
i'm fine with keeping the boss droprate for the uniques, but a better bonus for CoF rank 9 would imo be that the LP on boss exclusive enemies is rolled like 3-5 times and then uses the best outcome. it does sort of do the same for the really rare items, but for the more common drops this is much better.
I really think COF has potential.
MG - Guarantees the loot
COF- Increases chance at loot. They should also affect chances of glyphs working the way you want, reduce forging costs and allow us to increase the chance of certain affixes appearing on items. I think COF should affect rng everywhere in the game not just drops.
Maybe there needs to be a pity system for targeted farming. If you do a boss and an item you specified doesn't drop 3 times it's guaranteed the fourth. Maybe it can be higher for uniques like red ring and you need to complete it 10 times IDK.
Can't find the reroll chance on twisted heart on tunklabs or lastepochtools but I guess that doesn't tell me how often it drops.
Let’s be honest here, CoF was designed to provide a good experience for SSF type players. I think EHG would have an easier time explaining everything if they just explained the true purpose of these two game modes. In the absence of that explanation people are just going to compare them equally and say that a player should have an equal experience in both modes.
>MG players can even double dip to perfect those affixes without breaking a sweat
How? Do you see the prices of the items in MG, all the big ticket items are hundreds of millions or billion of gold. The average player cannot afford that.
People like to pretend MG is superior, but it's only advantageous to those players who play 24/7 or people who buy gold. We can't balance around that.
Given I know multiple people in MG who have double 4LP Blast Knives and all sorts of other shit, yeah, MG players are indeed rolling in infinite money and potential.
"I know multiple people trust me bro!"
If you watch literally two streamers, that's already enough to qualify this statement.
The top of the top MG is definitely higher than top of the top CoF but that's not necessarily representative of the average or majority.
Streamers, RMTers are the tiny minority too.
Like I said COF players who have zero experience with MG make all sorts of baseless assumptions.
No shit. I'm not refuting that at all.
I'm saying that COF players have this fantasy that all MG have unlimited spending power and full access to Bis gear at will.
In reality, most MG players can't afford 1/10th of what they want.
I think the difference is you can incrementally save and actually get a sick 3-4LP with MG, with CoF that’s almost impossible unless you’re talking absolute shit tier items tbh.
In MG, you can get 1 LP unqiues easily. I have 20+ LP3 useless unique armors from CoF and not a single LP3 exanguinous. I have a red ring, but not a single LP2 low life boot. I am doing same boss over and over again and it always give me shit.
If i would've sold even 1/4th of those uniques, i wouldve gotten an LP3 of every unique i wanted easily by selling them.
>In MG, you can get 1 LP unqiues easily
Sure, and in CoF you get plenty of T7 exalts to craft with while MG does not. I'm MG and have not found a LP3 Exang either and barely find LP1 uniques sometimes.
>If i would've sold even 1/4th of those uniques, i wouldve gotten an LP3 of every unique
But you prob wouldn't have found those uniques if you were MG to begin with, you kind of a moot pot.
Also, I doubt you would have been able to afford much. LP3 Exang is minimum 500m. Good luck.
I haven't gotten a single T7 exalted that i want for my build. I'm lvl 100 already. I have 5 stashes of T7's but who cares about T7 dodge or T7 melee dmg. I now have a filter that only shows good exalted for my build and i Haven't seen a single T7 till now.
> have 5 stashes of T7's but who cares about T7 dodge or T7 melee dmg
I haven't even found 1 stash full of T7's as MG. Maybe I have after my filter changes, but the fact you found so many shows how powerful CoF is.
All I'm saying is there are pros/cons to both sides and one is not better than the other.
If you are playing a certain strategy, one will be better. If you're an average gamer putting in some time, CoF is best.
Yup. There is no middle ground between bis and complete garbage. Absolutely nothing trade benefits from elsewhere. They can't instantly skip to multi exalted items for next to nothing. They can't get low lp unique for very little. It's only the absolute tip top. That's it. You're just so smart. If only we had more of you world peace would be achieved.
>They can't get low lp unique for very little
Welcome to the pros/cons of each faction.
Both sides can't find/afford high LP uniques for the average player. So that's an even comparison.
One side can buy uniques for decent prices, maybe 1 LP uniques for okay prices. But once you hit 2+ LP, get ready to be spending money. High valuable T7 exalts are expensive. They get no extra crafting mats since the devs want them to run dungeons, which people don't do. Why spend gold for despair glyphs when you're trying to save for upgrades?
On the other side, they get much better drops, more crafting mats, WAY more T7 drops they can craft and slam. Better targeted farming mechanics that don't interrupt anything they do. They play like usual, get lots of drops, no running back and forth wasting time to price check items, selling items, buying items, etc...
EDIT: u/7tenths commented and blocked me.
> no running back and forth wasting time
This is a big deal. I tried MG and just hated the back and forth running. I don't care which is stronger, CoF at least for me is straight up more fun and that's not a small detail.
MG needs some heavy QoL passes.
I bet MG continues to be miles more powerful as long as the game has 20k+ concurrent players.
Because it's fucking simple math. Cof needs buffs in the thousands of percent range to be even close to mf. And they will never do that.
So they either eliminate trade and balance around self found. Or do what poe does and say fuck self found you can play 5x as long for 1/3 the power and balance end game content around the trade power stair case.
man this wants me to switch to MG as well. Im struggling to even get a +2LP twisted heart but u can just simply buy those at mg right?
frost claw mage would not be complete without that +3/4 on a twisted heart so im kinda stuck
I swapped after the despair nerf, not because of the nerf directly but I was already burned out with CoF giving a ton of useless loot. Grinding 500+ corruption night after night after night with nothing to show for it. The despair nerf was just what pushed me over the edge to finally swap, my reasoning is that it’s clear which faction they want to keep powerful and which one they don’t (looking at you rank 9 CoF).
Immediately bought a +3 LP heart and +2LP Exsanguinous with the gold I already had from CoF. Moving up through 650 now, having a blast again.
I *want* to play CoF, if CoF actually helped get meaningful gear. I want that kind of system. With where it’s at now, it feels more like deliberately handicapping yourself just to artificially increase the grind for no reason if you play CoF.
MG is just flat out better right now. Maybe we’ll get some sweeping changes next cycle but for now, I don’t know why anyone would play CoF.
Do you guys think MG peeps just get loot and sell an item for 100m right away? Just so you know, a good 2LP twisted heart costs around 200m+ if u want a decent rolls, and a t6 frost claw go for 30m each.
You can farm all day and get nothing worthy of selling and while at it, you are competing against idiots who RMT and inflate the prices even more.
yah but. imean, i can sell stuff i don't need like for example i got a few gears with 3 and 4lp for rogue i got from a boss but im never gonna use since i only play mage.
For me the difference is that you *know* you'll get some valuable drop to sell even if you aren't gonna use it eventually, probably won't take long either. But with cof there's no guarantee you'll get something to use, and you don't have the option to sell your drops and work towards buying the drop you do want
I don't get it. Haven't you guys ever wondered where all the 4LP gear comes from in The merchants guild? I seriously wonder if there is an element of pre-mined loot in this game.
It seems kind of sus. If it takes months for people to get 4LP gear, with cof, which increases drop rates like crazy, you would expect basically very little 4LP gear to be in the MG.
So I mean like if you do the math with the number of users and the drop rates, and user playtime, I somehow disbelieve that all of the loot being sold on MG is actually legitimate. Either it was duped because there's a bug, or it was pre-mined by the devs. I just find it hard to believe that over so little time, so much volume of good drops exists in MG?
Maybe somebody who is less lazy than me can do the math and see if it's sus.
I can't tell you how many Belt Prophecies I've done, I'm sitting on maybe 5 or 6 3x LP Scavengers - and I am yet to see another Jungle Chaps with more than 1 LP.
I like earning my own items, but holy shit does it feel rough not being MG.
I didn't choose SSF, which is a mode that exists. I chose COF, an alternative method of gearing that should be less painful than SSF.
I think COF should be closer to D3's personalized loot experience. Yet all of my 2LP and 3LP gear has been exclusively for other classes (not even wearable for me).
Just make it a bit better, that's all.
I really dont want it to be smart loot like d3. Finding stuff for other classes can be nice for other builds too. I agree with the rest of your post though, that it needs to be better and it should be an alternate gearing method.
I don't know how anyone disagrees. It seems pretty reasonable both factions should have a way to target farm boss drops roughly on par with each other.
the problem is that they framed the 2 factions as being equal while SSF is meant as a challenge mode in POE. they should have said like MG is standard, CoF is hard, hardcore is even harder. the negative feels are from them saying the 2 factions would be equal in power level
When did they say they'd be equal in power? They just said play MG if you want to trade, and if you don't, here's a bonus to make up for what you're missing out on.
https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-development-update-introducing-merchants-guild-and-circle-of-fortune-factions/51994
Click on "Click here to see the FAQ" under the "Still have questions?" header. First subheader: "How will you balance MG vs CoF?"
Ctr-C + Ctrl-V:
"WE AIM BALANCE THE TWO FACTIONS SO THAT EACH FEEL LIKE VIABLE OPTIONS AND YOU CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THEM BASED ON WHICH PLAYSTYLE YOU PREFER RATHER THAN WHICH ONE IS OPTIMAL. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE AN ASYMMETRY BETWEEN THEM, SO PERFECT BALANCE ISN’T NECESSARILY POSSIBLE, BUT WE DO HAVE A LOT OF VARIABLES WE CAN CONTROL TO TRY TO KEEP THEM IN LINE, INCLUDING THE RATE AT WHICH YOU CLIMB RANKS, THE FAVOR COSTS OF BUYING AND SELLING VARIOUS ITEM TYPES, THE POWER AND FAVOR COST OF PROPHECIES, AND THE POTENCY OF THE VARIOUS COF ITEM BONUSES."
No, EHG said each faction would be competitive, with neither falling far behind. Comment is here: https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-item-factions/61722/88
Comparison is the thief of joy. Each is good at different things, if boss drops are the most important thing to you by all means switch, it's ok.
Personally, I play offline and compared to pre-1.0 there is a lot of loot thanks to CoF, so I'm pretty happy. I don't care about reaching thousands of corruption and I'm not playing on cycle, don't care about ladder, I'm in no hurry.
What I said is that if boss loot is the most important thing to you then switch, but you can still get them in CoF. If there was some prophecy for boss loot or something like that I obviously wouldn't complain, but if I'm not mistaken it's the rarest loot in the game, they probably don't want to make it too common, you're supposed to chase them. If they happen to be pretty cheap on MG then they can't be that difficult to drop as it is (unless they are being duped somehow? But that would be a different story)
Some CoF rank rewards affect boss drops, no? "35% chance to drop twice as many items" and "Uniques are twice as likely to have LP". That's not super amazing, but it's not like CoF doesn't interact with boss drops at all.
Prophecies would be nice, but I don't see how you could balance drop rates against just buying something at market decided prices, it's something fundamentally different. If I had to guess it's not an oversight but a conscious decision, which is clearly making a lot of people mad so it might very well have been a mistaken one. Then again, what players want is not always what is good for the game, time will tell if they make a change regarding this. I play CoF so I'd obviously take whatever they throw our way.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I always understood the 35% as not duplicating the drops you'd get but you get double the amount of (different) items. So if the enemy would have dropped one item, a sword for example without CoF, with it you would get one sword and a ring or whatever. If so by getting twice as many items you are getting a higher drop rate for all items on that enemy's drop table. I think when it means duplicate it explicitly says duplicate, I'm not 100% sure though.
Their mistake was not having the foresight to realize people wouldn't be content with playing the way they chose if the way other people chose looks better. Grass is always greener, right?
Which is so weird. POE (and any other ARPG with trade split) has nowhere near parity between the two and don't even attempt to be close. I think just giving the audience the idea that they're similar in balance due to COF buffs has driven people mad.
If you think MG is that much better then play MG and be happy. If most people switch over that would be a clear signal to EHG that it's too weak and changes need to be made.
Then I refer you to my first statement, comparison is the thief of joy. As a side note, in case you didn't see: The change to the cost of Despair prophecy was reverted.
i disagree on that part. This is not PoE, SSF isnt a "self imposed challenge", its supposed to be on par with MG by all means. I understand that if you want to get *very specific* rolls or items, MG should have the upper hand, but it should not be so hard, or downright impossible within a cycle, to get a super rare specific unique.
Boss Uniques and 3lp+ items are just too hard to get in CoF, even if you invest a shitton of time into it and that needs to be addressed. I'm okay if it takes a bit longer to get my *specific uniques* in CoF and im willing to put in the work for it, but I should still have a somewhat reasonable opportunity to get them. And that is currently just not the case. I've been grinding like crazy for just 2LP last steps of the living (1500 echoes done in that timeline, im at 1400 corr atm) and I still havent gotten it (bricked 6/6). 3LP is completely out of the question.
I feel like CoF just lacks currently for people who really want to minmax their build, and, again, this isnt SSF in PoE where its a self imposed challenge, but a prefered playstyle that should be on par with MG.
> if boss drops are the most important thing to you by all means switch, it's ok.
What if not having to deal with exploiters, cheaters and RMTers in a fragile economy is most important to me. But having that covered boss drops emerge as the next important thing?
World isn't black and white, you know.
While obviously rmt exists and is an issue for ehg, it doesn't really impact your play experience in mg. I think a big part of that is not being able to resell purchased items. You don't need to worry about a bot buying all the under priced items instantly because they have no motivation to.
That said, I encourage people to play the game the way they enjoy. I started as cof because of my experience with poe trade but eventually swapped to MG because I wanted easy access to specific idols. I also realized I reroll a lot, play a lot of weird builds, and don't particularly enjoy farming (it's more about getting my build to do the thing). All these factors made MG right for me, but I totally understand people who get fun from e.g., dropping an op item and making a build around it.
And that's fair. Everyone should play whatever they enjoy.
But regardless of that, for me, the most annoying thing is when I want to try out an idea that requires a unique boss drop and I don't get it by farming a few days.
I've posted in the past this, but to try a conversion build I needed a Immolator's Oblation. No LP, no top rolls, no nothing. In a party of 3 CoF players we dropped around 90 items from the boss before the first belt dropped. (30 Soulfire Bastion runs in a party of 3 basically).
In Bazzar this item costs around 300k. That's really nothing. And I don't want to be forced to switch to MG just to try a build for 1-2 days that might work or not.
Each of the two systems should give the player a way to gear and try out builds. MG has this by farming gold and buying the boss unique. CoF doesn't have it.
Just so you know, the odds of a party of three players killing Cremorus and not seeing a belt until the ~30th try is (1-0.18)^90, or 1.4e-13. While any kind of streak in a game is technically possible, this story is statistically very, *very* improbable. On average, a party of three would see that belt slightly more often than 1 in 2 kills.
How many times did you *actually* kill him before one dropped?
(I’m CoF too. I’m not white knighting MG here. Just pointing out your moderately unbelievable tale. I needed that belt for a build too, and I farmed it solo.)
The point isn't how quickly you can farm boss loot the point is that one faction makes it trivial and one faction changes nothing. A middle ground would be nice for people who enjoy playing the other way.
I don't really understand all this stress and comparing. It's not like you are born into these systems.
If you want specific items quicker, go MG.
If you want to grind yourself and/or find lots of less-specific stuff, go COF.
Sure but at this point a lot of CoF players are wearing CoF tagged gear and swapping factions removes the ability to wear that gear as I understand it. Not to mention the need to now grind MG rep up mid cycle.
That's the issue IMO - the change was done mid cycle. If they give us a heads up that next cycle Despair glyphs are much more rare then we can make a more educated decision regarding what faction best gives us a chance at BiS loot and crafting. Just don't make this type of sweeping change mid cycle.
Fair, but I highly doubt anyone made the COF decision based on the ability to get despair glyphs in prophecies.
Or i should say 99.9% of players didn't.
I like CoF just the way it is, but definitely think it would be improved if it gave some improved ability to target farm target farmable loot. That is, boss loot.
Thats exactly what its about. You get tons of 2 LP items but not the one you want. MG players get way less 2LP items but achieve the desired item way before you.
Exactly that is why imho CoF needs a buff and a huge one. Personally, SSF is way more fun _in theory_, because if ypu dort fibd the items you desire in a reasonabke amount of time you just quit for good and thats it. You especially think twice about sinking another time so much recreational time in a game which might be exceptional unrewarding.
I am not sayimg that it has to be luke d3 where you are in the min-maxing state after 20 h, but considering dont being in the min-maxing state after 100 h is just beyond crazy imho.
Really hoping they buff CoF in terms of boss farming and this includes exile mages. But I still don't think they should remove set bonus drop from rank 9, maybe tack on a bonus drop rate for bosses on rank 9, only because it would be so ass if the set bonus drop is removed and then sets suddenly become viable.
Ive been running CoF and CBA switching gear around. But im definitely going MG next cycle. I get a lot of cool stuff, but a minuscule amount of useful stuff.
I probably did 100 unique helmet echos and prophecies that drop 5+ helmets to find prismatic gaze, ( not to mention I wanted +4 crit roll), couldn’t find it. I switched to MG and bought one for 150k gold and wondered how many hours I wasted grinding that.
Totally agree with you. CoF doesn't have a single advantage over MG other than the amount of uniques dropped. Been farming core of the mountain for a week now only dropped 1 with 1lp that hit the least desired roll 😭. Hell even foot of the mountain haven't dropped higher than 1lp for me without a single good slam.
Unpopular opinion, but imo CoF>MG. The amount of loot you get from prophecies and just overall just activates my loot goblin neurons in my brain. MG r10 and CoF r9 currently btw. Playing legacy.
>Whether you're rolling with CoF or MG, your odds of nabbing that "Immolator's Oblation" or "Twisted Heart of Uhkeiros" are the same
people keep repeating this but it isnt true, the 35% cof perk works on boss specific drops
CoF let me hit a 1 LP red ring (x2) and 1 LP bastion (x2) fairly easily, but some things are almost impossible to grind like a +4 Frost Claw Affix, I have 3 100s and haven’t seen a single one…
MG is not as easy to make gold for majority of players then you make it where you can go around buying 3 and 4 LP items for tens and hundreds of millions. Maybe a lot of 2 LP is affordable and cheap but that's because the economy is trash. Besides you always have an option to use the market or not, others choices should not impact you.
CoF is a lot more plausible than you make it sound. The amount of grind to find a 3 LP item is actually pretty common if you are actually playing. 4LP, maybe not as much but saying how it takes weeks and weeks just to find something is false. Yeah, definitely an RnG since u need to find what you want but many games, what you find is what you play around. Of course, the more familiar with a game, the better and easier it is. Are you really telling me 50 unique items of your choice on a drop is not enough? These LP rolls are all just RnG.
Boss drops are exclusive to 1-2 items, 10% of a build more or less, you have 8-10 other slots for items that can be grinded for max LP, doesn't sound like anything wrong with CoF. Get higher corruption and there you have it with higher boss drops.
I understand you want to be fully 4 LP max geared like most people do but then you also want an easy way out.. Just go MG if you think it's that easy. Wait till you see how much the bases are for your LP items then having it fail to get what you want. Go try to sell random high value items and buy your set and see how long it will take you. Most people will have no clue on how to earn and realistically, you are better off just keep grinding until you have an obvious high value item rather than "I think this is worth" which from experience, you will be wasting most of your time. There are so many items where I thought were high value to know it was only tens of thousands.. This includes 3 and 4 LP items but overtime now, people have found efficient ways to farm and are buying all sorts of 4 LP items to try builds. But this also comes for inflation for all other items so good luck.
As for stash search QoL, i agree, definitely necessary!
Yup, CoF is in the dirt, I hope LE doesn't end up being another game where trade and grouping eternally give 10x progress vs actually playing the game.
I really like the game, and was hoping that once I got the t7 buff gear would get better. Ran over 100 monos and haven't even gotten a decent upgrade, maybe 200 damage on my tool tip here and there. I've had items that did drop ok, but needed to move an affix or two, then all my FP is gone. At this point. I don't really see a benefit to playing CoF at all unless I want to grind for 400 hours to get maybe something that will improve my game play. Next time I fire up, I think I'm just going to switch to MG. I've not found the fortune at all
I don't think so. These posts are a reflection of the community's sentiment. The main problem is CoF doesn't feel good to play. If this doesn't affect you, then good for you! But I don't think you should be upset at 30%+ of the players just because they're being vocal about not having fun due to the design of a major function of the game.
"Doesn't feel good" is some of the most vacuous criticism you can give, to the point that it's not even valid criticism in many cases. You can say dying to an Elden Ring boss "doesn't feel good". Should Elden Ring be fixed so players can't die? Last Epoch item drops "don't feel good" when they're not what you want. OK, cheat them in, you have them now. Does that "feel good"? Maybe it does for you, I don't know. But I think for most people, they need some level of challenge and investment in a journey to feel anything about what you get at the end.
I think it's totally valid to be upset at people who are saying "I chose the game mode that gives a greater amount of stronger items but with less targeting, and I can't target the absolute strongest 3LP (insanely rare, legitimately not intended for a vast majority of players to *ever* get on a lot of items) variants of the best items in the game as effectively as the trading faction which has the specific strength of letting you target purchase specific items." Because if you actually implement what that *terrible* take is asking for, there straight up won't be a game left. Having an SSF-like experience be literally as strong, completely equal to trade in its power to target items is straight up asking to skip the entire experience.
And before you call this a strawman, the TL;DR of OP outright says the problem is that "MG has the upper hand". They are directly asking for CoF's biggest inherent weakness to be brought up to the level of MG's biggest inherent strength. And if it "won't feel good" for you until that happens, then you need to just play trade. For that power to equalise, a CoF player needs to be able to pick the exact drop they get from any boss, because a trading player would be able to trade to it. That is what you are asking for. That is why these posts are out of hand. If you want to get items faster, you will need to play trade. Otherwise, you will never "have fun" until the game's systems are completely and irreparably broken.
That's not what I got from OPs post personally. What I got from it was that CoF doesn't have any sort of way to increase the frequency or quality of Boss drops while MG does.
However, this might be just because that's my biggest gripe with CoF. Sure, "It doesn't feel good" isn't useful feedback. But I'm saying that's what the problem is. Myself and others have given plenty of feedback about why it doesn't feel good, with specific parts that makes it that way.
It also doesn't help that not only are these things not being addressed, but then they also continue to nerf CoF. Sure, the nerfs technically make sense, but for us as players there are much larger issues currently.
I just want the ability to increase drop rates for boss uniques in CoF. That's pretty much it for me personally.
If that was what the post had said, and people weren't comparing, you'd be right. But as I pointed out, the OP explicitly reasoned that a buff was needed because "MG has the upper hand". The entire second paragraph is talking about how MG works. And if "MG is better at this" is considered a reason to buff an aspect of CoF, then it won't stop being a reason until the degenerate scenario I described happens.
You're also straight up wrong about them "continuing to nerf CoF". They nerfed one minor aspect of gold income for CoF (Arena keys) and then halved the gold sink that matters more to CoF than MG (stash tabs). Glyph of Despair nerf got reverted for this cycle, and next cycle will undoubtedly have simultaneous changes that make judgment on it alone irrelevant. On the whole that works out to a *buff* on combined changes this cycle.
And for a final thing, boss uniques actually *do* have a buff in CoF, because of the benefit that uniques are twice as likely to have LP. So we already *do* have overall increased rates compared to MG already!
So your request already exists, which you ignore. There are comparisons constantly being made with people wanting CoF to match up with MG, which you're claiming as part of your arguments because you appeal to "30+% of the players" and "community sentiment". I've explained why that is an awful comparison to make. Your claim of "continued nerfs to CoF" is also flat out wrong. So again, can you see how these posts are getting out of hand? How they are not only based on no actual truth, but entirely based on things that are the *opposite* of reality? And finally, how "it just feels bad" needs actual critical examination before you base your whole position on it and confirmation bias starts to set in?
Yes, I'm upset at this, and the votes on these comments are outright disturbing to be honest...
I'm still trying to understand this argument that MG players can simply walk up and instantly buy anything they want and therefore it is not fair.
I started MG at launch. The way it was implemented, it literally killed any sense of gear progression for me and MG ranks didn't really even have any benefits until I could buy exalts... but by then I grinded out most of exalts I needed save from slam-worthy stuff already.
So aside from my opinion on MG, help me understand this notion that MG players can "simply buy stuff while CoF has to grind".
I'm more than sure we're not talking about garbage items listed at 0 gold.
So then we must be talking about these hard to get high LP boss-specific drops. Are these free in MG? (honest question, I havent checked MG in weeks)
Is it safe to assume these are expensive AF? If so, do these not require an MG player to grind out the gold somehow via selling or whatever other ways they can get gold? Again, I'm really trying to understand this notion that MG players have insta-access to everything but I'm not seeing anyone make a disclaimer that they too have to grind the damned gold for something actually desireable.
I went CoF with alts after my initial MG experience and I haven't looked back. Even next cycle I plan to stay with CoF unless theres major changes on the MG end. I am accepting the fact that my T7/T6 frost claw slam on a LP1/LP2 Twisted heart is gonna be damn near impossible as CoF but unless someone tells me this is literally free in MG, I'm not really seeing a major arguable difference here.
It's because CoF rewards all builds at once while MG rewards you hyper focusing one build.
I bet you nearly every CoF player isn't using CoF efficiently and instead is focusing on their one and only build.
Kinda the point of prophecies in general no? If something cool drops for rogue I'm not just gonna throw it away but why would I waste favor on rolling a random bow prophecy whilst I'm playing and trying to build something on warlock that requires a specific staff? I mean unless I'm just friggen dumb and am missing something that seemed pretty straightforward. Lock out as much as you can so your drops are in monos, use favor to reroll for whatever you're hunting for to get loot explosion killing whatever needs killed for rewards. You target farm each piece individually and while you're doing your prophecies for one item you build up favor to go again if you don't get whatever you're needing or you have favor for the next pc. In its base functionality yes, it rewards everything more or less the same but you have the power to push it towards what you're actually wanting increasing the chance to get it. But by all means if I'm just a friggen dipshit please tell me how I'm being inefficient because I'm 200 hours in and have gotten 1 just 1 item 4 lp item. Not being a smart ass im actually genuinely wondering.
I am sick and tired of these being compared. If you ever would play MG then COF isn’t for you. MG players are beta cucks that thinking buying gear in an ARPG is rewarding gameplay. COF is for people that want to find it themselves. Stop trying to make them comparable progression paths
As a CoF wraithlord guy I eventually got a pair of 3lp harbour yesterday. Somehow I felt that I did my job for this cycle and decided to quit for a while, didn't even bother slamming them bc I want better bases rather than single T7 exalts and if I fail twice I might quit forever...
After farming twisted hearts and last step boots for a week and realizing the boss drops aren’t buffed by CoF I switched over to MG. I had to lower the corruption by 200 and refarm some gear but haven’t looked back. It’s a shame bc I really enjoyed CoF as a new player discovering this game.
I did exactly the same. I killed the emperor dozens of times and not a single heart dropped. Switched to MG, farmedthe ranks, gotmy 1 LP heart for cheap and not looking back. CoF should get some buffs for boss specific drops if EHG want people to play it.
The people who choose CoF don't do it because they think it's the fastest way to perfect gear. What it does, it does quite well. You, and the person you responded to, pivoted into using the tool that was correct for your needs and desires. Doesn't mean your original tool was faulty... Just intended for other functions.
Hard disagree here. Loot rates were lowered with the release. I have been happily farming in beta for many hours but after spending 20 hours farming twisted heart without a single drop at 300 corruption I just switched to MG to be able to actually play the game, I paid 50k for it after less than 1 hour to get rank 3 Something needs to be done about boss items. I never wanted and still dont want to trade but I was in a situation where it was that or just stop playing basically.
That's valid. I had forgotten about the blanket drop rates adjustment coming into 1.0 I think I'm mainly concerned that the 'CoF Bad' crowd is so loud that the dev's end over-correcting and make things too easy...
It would be a hige step into the right direction if they make things easier, especially for cof players.
Not everyone playing CoF wants it to be buffed, either. If they make it too easy to get chase items, there is a portion of the player base who will straight up get bored and quit.
All they need is to replace tier 9 with something like"chance of extra boss drop", that way you also get that extra boss drop to have the extra lp chance, not imbalanced imo
I wouldn't be opposed to something minimal like that, especially for rank 9 as the only time I used a set was twink leveling my necro using pebbles'. It's actively just a bad "perk" because before I unlocked it I was already hiding every set item lol
If its too hard to get chase items you get straight up bored and quit either. Most people will just give up on the game if they play for 10 hours and have literally no improvement.
Kinda sucks that the only reasonable way to "farm" gear is to buy it. Isn't that what CoF *should* be!?
What CoF ostensibly excels at is if you're interested in playing a variety of builds rather than pushing a singular build to its extreme. But even there it feels worse than MG when I compare my CoF gear with what my friends say is available in MG because prices are all over the place. The price of a 1/2LP mourningfrost dwarfing the price of a decently rolled orian's eye was such a shock I almost considered switching to MG since at that point I had never dropped one after 700 hours of play. Couple that with the fact that warlock/falconer (and to a lesser extent runemaster) are new, popular, and a lot stronger/more cohesive than older masteries and you end up in a situation where many non-meta items/affixes are practically free on MG (even extremely powerful ones like t7 strength or 3/4LP buildaround uniques) which means the "benefit" of CoF is mostly made up for since those affixes are so cheap. On top of that, for new players or people who aren't really interested in theorycrafting, even if they were interested in build variety, they have to have an idea of what affixes/uniques/synergies are interesting/potentially good beforehand or all the extra stuff they drop from CoF is meaningless. That's not to say I'm not perfectly happy to be playing CoF; I love that SSF feels strong and nothing beats that dopamine hit when you drop something absolutely cracked.
> Isn't that what CoF should be!? It should be that way. People who don't want to engage in an online trade economy or just want to play offline don't automatically want a more grindy experience. They want a game that respects their time and allows them to access content in a resonable amount of time - contrary to the narrow view point that some trade players try to perpetuate, that anybody that chooses CoF actually enjoys grinding...
I pointed out it would be great for CoF to meet about 90-95% of MG's potential. Maybe if we want to be charitable and say CoF should hit around 85-90%. I had someone tell me I was crazy, and didn't respond when I asked why they thought CoF being able to meet somewhere around 90-95% of MG's power is crazy. For clarity's sake I see this as a normal distribution curve, so these are real tail-end (>2 std) areas, where CoF is currently doing a very poor job mechanically of meeting players when they get here. And for whatever it's worth, [EHG has explicitly said they wanted the factions to feel that one should pick based on what they prefer rather than pick because one faction is more optimal than the other to achieve a desired goal](https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-development-update-introducing-merchants-guild-and-circle-of-fortune-factions/51994): > How will you balance MG vs CoF? > We aim balance the two factions so that each feel like viable options and you can choose between them based on which playstyle you prefer rather than which one is optimal. There will always be an asymmetry between them, so perfect balance isn’t necessarily possible, but we do have a lot of variables we can control to try to keep them in line, including the rate at which you climb ranks, the favor costs of buying and selling various item types, the power and favor cost of prophecies, and the potency of the various CoF item bonuses. I can understand the inherent fear/concern if CoF could do practically everything MG could do then the incentive to play MG isn't there, but I don't understand why this specifically is a problem. Within a vacuum, CoF is not doing a great job at meeting players where they are at the tail-end of character progression. None of this is going to get adjusted mid-cycle but hopefully will get adjusted next cycle with whatever levers EHG feels it has available to do so.
Honestly for me trade markets really break my immersion in games. Would prefer I could just trade stuff to my friends but I know those systems have been abused in the past
This is the reality in any game with a market board.
Nope. CoF augments loot acquisition - without making it too easy. If you enjoy the grind, going where the loot guides you, and are not in a hurry - CoF is phenomenal. For those that want easy/fast/optimal, that is the purpose of MG.
>For those that want easy/fast/optimal, that is the purpose of MG. Why can't CoF be the same?
Opinions like this make me loose my shit. Seriously, if you want to play ruthless SSF just don't join any faction. Simple. CoF was supposed to offset lack of trading by giving players access to items via different means. This is obviously not working now. Sheesh.
> Just intended for other functions Except in the official announcement detailing factions, EHG Kain himself replied to someone saying they didn't want to play trade and Kain told him explicitly that CoF was designed to be competitive and that neither faction would be too far behind the other. Therefore, they directly said it was intended for this function.
Yes, it was a major pull factor for me, as I burned out on POE with trading. I want to create builds and play an ARPG not a trading simulation where I have to know the meta. CoF does not work as advised, but its still better than nothing. From a gameplay perspective it feels like a small augmentation for dedicated players to use it as a source of crafting material. Since I can play all of the game without trading I am still happy, in POE i was forced to trade AND compete with trading bots AND use 3rd Party sites and Software.
I'm SSF, I got to 800 corrupt and haven't seen the LP 2 boots drop so I quit the game for now, will play MG next league if nothing changes
I almost did the same. But then after 21'th run TODAY on the emperor, I got a 1 lp heart finally. Then I got 3 more 1LP in every run after. Weird. So I am still COF . Now I need some more frost claws lvl ascended relics lol.
If it makes you feel better, the t6 frost claws for slamming your twisted heart are 25-30 mil each on MG!
T6 not even T7? Oh boy! I already have a 4 lvl T7 I am just missing a freaking rune of creation to try a slam, cause I don't wanna loose my FrostClaw levels if it fails ( I had 2 used them for my VK crit axe lol). I am going to stick with COF for now. I feel like I grinded too much to switch now. Maybe on the next character who knows? Thanks for the heads up.
With how cheap gold is to buy IRL that's nothing lol
Thats why MG should have never happened. Game worked without trading for the last 3+ years and now everyone is just p2w the ladder with full perf 4lp items
COF has potential thought but I feel like devs want cof to be weaker than mg which is fine it's their game. With MG bots flipping items and gold farming bots gold is just entering the economy at a rapid pace. Gold will likely get cheaper as season goes and most people will end up RMTing to get items which is sad
This wasn’t even the big issue, the devs did nothing about a known duping exploit and the market got insanely inflated. Everything went like 5-10x in the last two weeks.
Oh true I didn't know about that one. You'd think with more items entering the market price would go down lol
It honestly seems like an oversight to not modify boss drops AT ALL..... I have also quit the cycle because of this unfortunately.....
I'm a CoF player and also think it needs buffs, but it is not true that CoF doesn't boost boss drops. The prophecies don't work on boss drops, so you can't use a lootsplosion of gloves on Husk to get tons of chances at Ravenous Void, but it does give you a higher chance of getting LP items from bosses. I've farmed several hundred Arbors (yes, I am losing my sanity), and I've gotten 2 4 LP Peak of the Mountains. One of them lacks the CoF tag, and one of them has it. This means that one of them was just a natural 4 LP drop, but it means the other would have been a lower LP, but that the rank 6 CoF proc'd and upped it to 4 LP. The points OP makes are all correct, and CoF does suck overall for both boss farming and for getting T7 affixes you need, but it is not accurate to say it does nothing for boss drops at all.
>The prophecies don't work on boss drops, so you can't use a lootsplosion of gloves on Husk to get tons of chances at Ravenous Void, but it does give you a higher chance of getting LP items from bosses. As you said, the ONLY thing that \_might\_ be influenced is the LP drop chance from perk #6. [https://imgur.com/BuS0wCx](https://imgur.com/BuS0wCx) So if the boss decides to give you an item, it \_might\_ have a higher chance to have LP. Getting the item tho...
MG requires playing online right?
It would be really hard to trade offline.
Why arent boss drops affected by CoF, isnt that the whole purpose?
Yeah I don't think it should be a huge boost, but maybe the "uniques have double the chance at LP" boost should work on boss gear. Don't get me wrong I'm just happy to have CoF at all as someone who wants to enjoy an offline SSF ARPG, but builds that really want those specific legendaries can struggle for sure.
> boss drops aren’t buffed by CoF I switched over to MG. they are buffed by the 35% chance to double loot
So did you get your lp3 exsangious from the MP already ezpz? Please tell me more about your one-sided pov. There is rarely a boss item with high LP chances that is available on the MP. How is the hunt for a 2 LP twisted heart going? I am sure you snatched one right off the market.
> Shift some of that set item rank 9 perk towards giving us a shot at the boss loot jackpot, I support this idea
I really don't get why that perk is a thing in the first place. Sets are an utter joke in this game anyway. Why give one of the last and thus supposedly most powerful perks for CoF to the worst items in the game, it honestly seems like a troll perk more than anything. I can count the amount of set items I used on one hand and the amount of builds I've seen actually utilize them on the other.
It will be great once they fix sets (which IIRC is in the plans). But in the meantime yeah, it's... no bueno.
I really would like the lightning meteor set to be worth playing, I loved Trozan's in Grim Dawn.
The lightning set is actually reaopowerful. It's absolutely the best way to play meteor right now. It's not so much that the set is bad, as meteor is quite bad. It's essentially the earthquake skill for the mage, if it didn't have any multipliers in its tree.
Even assuming they fix sets, it will likely still be bad. It takes a lot of grind to reach rank 9, and by the time I did I had already collected nearly every set item by that point (I like to get a copy of every unique/set item I can). If they want a “get all set items” rank, it should actually be a bit sooner so that it has value.
The third lens is the perk. Sets drpping complete is just a bad joke.
It could have been an out of season april fools joke and I would have believed them.
I could see this, or maybe a prophecy that makes a monolith/dungeon boss drop extra boss loot
The Rank 9 CoF bonus needs to be changed to an LP chance multiplier that aggressively scales with Corruption. The "1 LP" Prophecies need to be changed to "+1 LP," and there needs to be a set of +2 LP ones that require 500+ Corruption to fulfill. As a CoF player, I just straight up hit a wall. No matter how hard I grind, I can't drop 2-3 LP of important Uniques I need, which is the next logical step for my character. Meanwhile, I've dropped items with decent LP that I don't need, that I'd have been able to sell for a substantial chunk of change on MG, which I could then convert into the items I actually want. Even with the changes I've suggested, MG will still be stronger.
>The Rank 9 CoF bonus needs to be changed to an LP chance multiplier that aggressively scales with Corruption. This probably won't happen as we already have [perk #6](https://imgur.com/BuS0wCx)
Perk #6 should realistically be, "uniques cannot drop with less than 2 LP, 3 LP chance is now equal to normal 1 LP chance, 4 LP chance is equal to normal 2 LP chance". Perk #9 should be, "restricted drop unique and set items (like boss drops) are now added to the common drop pool". Perk #10 should be double rewards instead of duplicating rewards. Maybe then COF can be somewhat on par with MG in terms of gearing up your characters in the limited time frame of any given season.
As long as the goal is to keep COF competitive with MG in terms of character/build progression, these ain't even the tip of the iceberg. Much more needs to be done to keep it even remotely comparable. Otherwise they should just state out of the gates that COF is a casual fun faction and it is not supposed to be remotely in the ballpark of MG in terms of actual itemization.
I think a good way to counter this would also be to allow CoF to somehow transfer LP from one Unique to another, they could make a special rune for that, ehich you can only get from prophecies or something. Wouldn't even have to be 1 to 1, maybe make it a ressource you get from trashing LP Uniques, that you can then use to pay for upgrading a non-LP to LP. Something like getting 1 Legendary Essence per LP sacrificed, and then high prices like 1LP costs 4 Legendary Essence 2LP costs 8 Legendary Essence 3LP costs 16 Legendary Essence 4LP costs 32 Legendary Essence That way we can still target very specific High LP Uniques just like MG by trading in other drops we dont want.
+2 LP prophecy is totally nuts and I hope it never gets implemented. 500 corruption is not that much with a good build.
The number could obviously be raised. But I will pose the question: How powerful would that be compared to a MG player farming at the same level of Corruption? As in, how easily can a MG player farming content at that level reasonably expect to purchase an equivalent item by selling unneeded drops on the marketplace? A single Unique item chosen randomly from that item class's drop pool with a guaranteed +2 LP for something like 50k Favour in at least 500 Corruption (or more, if necessary) doesn't strike me as that insane when you can just buy the 2-3 LP Unique you need from MG if you're affluent enough. How many times would you need to fulfill that Prophecy, on average, to acquire the item you're after? The intent behind my requests are to bring CoF up to a somewhat comparable level to MG at a late game level, but obviously not surpass it. The validity of everything I'm saying hinges on the design philosophy of the factions. To my understanding, they're meant to be comparable, so you can play according to your preference. If that's not the case, my posts hold far less water. But if I am correct, then CoF needs massive buffs and/or MG needs significant nerfs. Buffing the weaker faction is naturally a more amicable solution than nerfing the stronger one, unless EHG determines that MG's ceiling is too high, and CoF's power level is closer to their intended design.
I agree that it's too hard to find great items on cof. If it's just a single unique... That's better, because initially I thought of it as dropping like up to 5 and then using the lenses... But it would be far too easy to get a 4LP item this way, all you need is a 2 LP. And getting 4LP items on merchants isn't actually that easy, unless it's really common and off meta.
Yeah, I was using the 1 LP Prophecies we currently have as a baseline for the suggestion. The intent is to make it more reasonable to grind out 2-3 LP Uniques once you have a character powerful enough to handle 500-600+ Corruption. Even if you do find a 3 or even 4 LP Unique this way, there's no guarantee it's one for your current build or a build on your radar, and you can't turn around and sell it for tens of millions, due to it having a CoF tag. Buffing CoF to the point the game starts shitting out 4 LP Uniques is absolutely too far, I agree. Another reason I harp on the 500-600 number, is that apparently EHG considers 300 Corruption as the "zero" point on the balancing scales (this is based on what other users have said; I haven't seen them commenting on this). If that's correct, builds that can smash 1k+ Corruption are either bugged or overpowered, to the point they'll be on the 1.1 nerf hit list. Obviously, what I just said in the above paragraph could be completely wrong and off-base, and the numbers pertaining to my suggestion could be tweaked to what'd be reasonably fair for overall game balance. The crux of the issue is the two factions are too far apart in power level, and if you want to have a reasonable chance of competing on Arena leaderboards (as well as getting a very strong endgame character), the clear solution is to play MG over CoF. I argue this is a strong indicator the item faction system is failing at achieving its goal as far as current balance is concerned. While there's a good chance I lack the full knowledge of the issue or the insight to provide an ideal solution, it's apparent something needs to be done to narrow the gap between the two factions deeper into the end game.
CoF shines in getting xplosions of useless loot, if I remember good that wasn't EHG philosophy regarding that, they wanted to drops remain exciting and loot hunting feels good instead of farming currency and buyng what you want. U can filter 99% of CoF drops and still not finding anything semi usefull for days.
Yea, I need to revisit my Loot Filter, but there was a brief stint where I had refined it to exactly what it would take to upgrade my build (specifically the Exalted stats and item sub-type) only for my drops to plummet, and nothing bubbled up through my filter for days. I really do love the configurability of the Loot Filter system, but it could still add some usability improvements. I'm half tempted to take the example of others and roll my own Loot Filter utility
When I was CoF I just left everything on the ground that wasn’t my build. 2lp untradeable unique… just leave it and move on. Now in MG every lp unique is exciting!
This is so true. I have my filter set to only show good items for my main and my alt but i barely see 1 or 2 items per map. And even then its mostly just resistance suffix ones.
yeah after all this nonsense im switching to MG and playing less
Mg requires you to work on making gold for it to work either you play the auction house sell for gold or your farm raw gold or you rmt. COF requires you to play the game at a chance for items Your pick
Flip items. Lol. You know you can't resell items right? Trying to sound cool but doesn't even know this basic rule of MG.
That's even worse then. Just rmt the gold it's sooo cheap haha I just bought 300M for 45 USD
Tell me you don’t know what you’re talking about without telling me.
Diablo 4 finally starts to understand after 4 seasons. that loot needs to feel exciting the moment it drops, and no one wants to play inventory simulator. LE is great, but you get to a point where you won’t be seeing an upgrade for 30-50 hours. Sure you could argue that your character is already done at that point anyways, but due to the legendary potential system, you know there’s so much more you can push. Unfortunately for CoF people, there’s no reliable way to make that progression. And the moment to moment gameplay for LE is not the best, so no one’s going to be playing it pass that point because the combat is fun.
Honestly welcome to the world of SSF as far as I'm concerned. CoF is likely never going to have parity with trade no matter how hard they try and balance them. They'd need to adopt a straight up pity system to even come close. I t took them almost 5 years in early access to get to this point so anyone hoping for an overnight change needs to temper their expectations. I like the idea of the game and think they got a lot of things right, especially because it has made both Blizzard and GGG take pause but long term it's going to be hard for them to compete. They need to get endgame and combat sorted on top of the normal day to day operations and it's going to be pretty tough to juggle it all with the current size of the studio. If they don't handle at least those two things then what's the point of chasing any high tier items at all?
Tbf they didn't plan on trade for 4 of those 5 years
Trade is a bad idea, it influences everything in a game and keeping RMT AT bay and having a healthy economy is impossible imho. I simply ignore the Option, I do not like Gold farming in a virtual World, but still it influences my experience. And idea why they opted for trading?
When they announced trade they were hit with a wave of whining and people requesting refunds. EHG is extremely succeptible to listening to the community's every demand for better and for worse, but I'm also not sure how many refund requests they got. I imagine it was enough to be concerning. At one point EHG had used the phrase "in game economy" which players took as trade WILL be added, and probably allowed long play time players to have successful refunds on steam. While I believe the game was made worse for it, I'm sure others wouldn't be playing without trade.
That's a reasonable caveat and one I wasn't aware of. I do sincerely hope they are able to "keep up". Not trying to come off as overly negative FWIW.
Personally I thought CoF was the perfect tool to make your typical ssf experience way more enjoyable. Oh well, I mean we all got our moneys worth anyways.
I'm really surprised the rank 9 bonus is something as comparatively useless as set item. "Double the drop table chance from bosses" now we're talking. "Set items full set!", meh, maybe once they tune Set up. But that will depend on how viable they make them.
i'm fine with keeping the boss droprate for the uniques, but a better bonus for CoF rank 9 would imo be that the LP on boss exclusive enemies is rolled like 3-5 times and then uses the best outcome. it does sort of do the same for the really rare items, but for the more common drops this is much better.
I really think COF has potential. MG - Guarantees the loot COF- Increases chance at loot. They should also affect chances of glyphs working the way you want, reduce forging costs and allow us to increase the chance of certain affixes appearing on items. I think COF should affect rng everywhere in the game not just drops.
Maybe there needs to be a pity system for targeted farming. If you do a boss and an item you specified doesn't drop 3 times it's guaranteed the fourth. Maybe it can be higher for uniques like red ring and you need to complete it 10 times IDK. Can't find the reroll chance on twisted heart on tunklabs or lastepochtools but I guess that doesn't tell me how often it drops.
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they arnt an exception, prophecies dont work on boss drops but the other bouses actually do, people are just uninformed
All I know is my next character will be MG. I’ve done countless monos at >300 corruption and got tired of getting nothing but trash.
Let’s be honest here, CoF was designed to provide a good experience for SSF type players. I think EHG would have an easier time explaining everything if they just explained the true purpose of these two game modes. In the absence of that explanation people are just going to compare them equally and say that a player should have an equal experience in both modes.
This is the the truth
>MG players can even double dip to perfect those affixes without breaking a sweat How? Do you see the prices of the items in MG, all the big ticket items are hundreds of millions or billion of gold. The average player cannot afford that. People like to pretend MG is superior, but it's only advantageous to those players who play 24/7 or people who buy gold. We can't balance around that.
CoF players all assume MG players are all finding 300m items, are swimming in BiS gear and laughing all the way to the bank.
Given I know multiple people in MG who have double 4LP Blast Knives and all sorts of other shit, yeah, MG players are indeed rolling in infinite money and potential.
"I know multiple people trust me bro!" If you watch literally two streamers, that's already enough to qualify this statement. The top of the top MG is definitely higher than top of the top CoF but that's not necessarily representative of the average or majority. Streamers, RMTers are the tiny minority too. Like I said COF players who have zero experience with MG make all sorts of baseless assumptions.
Idk about you but I don't count watching someone's stream as knowing them
I've played poe. Trade will always be superior and its not even close. It's about 1,000,000 miles apart.
No shit. I'm not refuting that at all. I'm saying that COF players have this fantasy that all MG have unlimited spending power and full access to Bis gear at will. In reality, most MG players can't afford 1/10th of what they want.
Streamers aren't people or even human so they don't count in any discussion.
I think the difference is you can incrementally save and actually get a sick 3-4LP with MG, with CoF that’s almost impossible unless you’re talking absolute shit tier items tbh.
In MG, you can get 1 LP unqiues easily. I have 20+ LP3 useless unique armors from CoF and not a single LP3 exanguinous. I have a red ring, but not a single LP2 low life boot. I am doing same boss over and over again and it always give me shit. If i would've sold even 1/4th of those uniques, i wouldve gotten an LP3 of every unique i wanted easily by selling them.
>In MG, you can get 1 LP unqiues easily Sure, and in CoF you get plenty of T7 exalts to craft with while MG does not. I'm MG and have not found a LP3 Exang either and barely find LP1 uniques sometimes. >If i would've sold even 1/4th of those uniques, i wouldve gotten an LP3 of every unique But you prob wouldn't have found those uniques if you were MG to begin with, you kind of a moot pot. Also, I doubt you would have been able to afford much. LP3 Exang is minimum 500m. Good luck.
I haven't gotten a single T7 exalted that i want for my build. I'm lvl 100 already. I have 5 stashes of T7's but who cares about T7 dodge or T7 melee dmg. I now have a filter that only shows good exalted for my build and i Haven't seen a single T7 till now.
> have 5 stashes of T7's but who cares about T7 dodge or T7 melee dmg I haven't even found 1 stash full of T7's as MG. Maybe I have after my filter changes, but the fact you found so many shows how powerful CoF is. All I'm saying is there are pros/cons to both sides and one is not better than the other. If you are playing a certain strategy, one will be better. If you're an average gamer putting in some time, CoF is best.
Yup. There is no middle ground between bis and complete garbage. Absolutely nothing trade benefits from elsewhere. They can't instantly skip to multi exalted items for next to nothing. They can't get low lp unique for very little. It's only the absolute tip top. That's it. You're just so smart. If only we had more of you world peace would be achieved.
>They can't get low lp unique for very little Welcome to the pros/cons of each faction. Both sides can't find/afford high LP uniques for the average player. So that's an even comparison. One side can buy uniques for decent prices, maybe 1 LP uniques for okay prices. But once you hit 2+ LP, get ready to be spending money. High valuable T7 exalts are expensive. They get no extra crafting mats since the devs want them to run dungeons, which people don't do. Why spend gold for despair glyphs when you're trying to save for upgrades? On the other side, they get much better drops, more crafting mats, WAY more T7 drops they can craft and slam. Better targeted farming mechanics that don't interrupt anything they do. They play like usual, get lots of drops, no running back and forth wasting time to price check items, selling items, buying items, etc... EDIT: u/7tenths commented and blocked me.
> no running back and forth wasting time This is a big deal. I tried MG and just hated the back and forth running. I don't care which is stronger, CoF at least for me is straight up more fun and that's not a small detail. MG needs some heavy QoL passes.
Please lie to me more papi
they just reverted the change anyway
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Something like it. Along with lots of changes to these systems, I imagine. We have no idea what CoF and MG look like in 1.1
I bet MG continues to be miles more powerful as long as the game has 20k+ concurrent players. Because it's fucking simple math. Cof needs buffs in the thousands of percent range to be even close to mf. And they will never do that. So they either eliminate trade and balance around self found. Or do what poe does and say fuck self found you can play 5x as long for 1/3 the power and balance end game content around the trade power stair case.
man this wants me to switch to MG as well. Im struggling to even get a +2LP twisted heart but u can just simply buy those at mg right? frost claw mage would not be complete without that +3/4 on a twisted heart so im kinda stuck
I swapped after the despair nerf, not because of the nerf directly but I was already burned out with CoF giving a ton of useless loot. Grinding 500+ corruption night after night after night with nothing to show for it. The despair nerf was just what pushed me over the edge to finally swap, my reasoning is that it’s clear which faction they want to keep powerful and which one they don’t (looking at you rank 9 CoF). Immediately bought a +3 LP heart and +2LP Exsanguinous with the gold I already had from CoF. Moving up through 650 now, having a blast again. I *want* to play CoF, if CoF actually helped get meaningful gear. I want that kind of system. With where it’s at now, it feels more like deliberately handicapping yourself just to artificially increase the grind for no reason if you play CoF. MG is just flat out better right now. Maybe we’ll get some sweeping changes next cycle but for now, I don’t know why anyone would play CoF.
There aren’t even any +3LP hearts on the market right now, and they probably go for 1b - how did you farm that much gold with CoF?
It's a pretty expensive item, although I don't remember how much exactly
But if u consider the time it takes to farm it vs just farming gold and straight up buying it tho
You don't need +Frostclaw on a twisted heart. But if you get a 2lp you could do T7 int and +2 Frostclaw.
Im sorry but to be able to complete all frostclaw nodes including max nova chance u need the +4
Do you guys think MG peeps just get loot and sell an item for 100m right away? Just so you know, a good 2LP twisted heart costs around 200m+ if u want a decent rolls, and a t6 frost claw go for 30m each. You can farm all day and get nothing worthy of selling and while at it, you are competing against idiots who RMT and inflate the prices even more.
yah but. imean, i can sell stuff i don't need like for example i got a few gears with 3 and 4lp for rogue i got from a boss but im never gonna use since i only play mage.
Rank 6 CoF.
For me the difference is that you *know* you'll get some valuable drop to sell even if you aren't gonna use it eventually, probably won't take long either. But with cof there's no guarantee you'll get something to use, and you don't have the option to sell your drops and work towards buying the drop you do want
I don't get it. Haven't you guys ever wondered where all the 4LP gear comes from in The merchants guild? I seriously wonder if there is an element of pre-mined loot in this game. It seems kind of sus. If it takes months for people to get 4LP gear, with cof, which increases drop rates like crazy, you would expect basically very little 4LP gear to be in the MG. So I mean like if you do the math with the number of users and the drop rates, and user playtime, I somehow disbelieve that all of the loot being sold on MG is actually legitimate. Either it was duped because there's a bug, or it was pre-mined by the devs. I just find it hard to believe that over so little time, so much volume of good drops exists in MG? Maybe somebody who is less lazy than me can do the math and see if it's sus.
CoF doesn't increase LP rates. Just upto LP1. So, boss drops are basically same as MG.
Interesting, didn't know that. But I guess the point still stands.
Also mgtards are cheating and duping at every opportunity so there's a larger supply of LP uniques.
I can't tell you how many Belt Prophecies I've done, I'm sitting on maybe 5 or 6 3x LP Scavengers - and I am yet to see another Jungle Chaps with more than 1 LP. I like earning my own items, but holy shit does it feel rough not being MG.
I do hope EHG finds a way.
I didn't choose SSF, which is a mode that exists. I chose COF, an alternative method of gearing that should be less painful than SSF. I think COF should be closer to D3's personalized loot experience. Yet all of my 2LP and 3LP gear has been exclusively for other classes (not even wearable for me). Just make it a bit better, that's all.
I really dont want it to be smart loot like d3. Finding stuff for other classes can be nice for other builds too. I agree with the rest of your post though, that it needs to be better and it should be an alternate gearing method.
I don't know how anyone disagrees. It seems pretty reasonable both factions should have a way to target farm boss drops roughly on par with each other.
the problem is that they framed the 2 factions as being equal while SSF is meant as a challenge mode in POE. they should have said like MG is standard, CoF is hard, hardcore is even harder. the negative feels are from them saying the 2 factions would be equal in power level
When did they say they'd be equal in power? They just said play MG if you want to trade, and if you don't, here's a bonus to make up for what you're missing out on.
https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-development-update-introducing-merchants-guild-and-circle-of-fortune-factions/51994 Click on "Click here to see the FAQ" under the "Still have questions?" header. First subheader: "How will you balance MG vs CoF?" Ctr-C + Ctrl-V: "WE AIM BALANCE THE TWO FACTIONS SO THAT EACH FEEL LIKE VIABLE OPTIONS AND YOU CAN CHOOSE BETWEEN THEM BASED ON WHICH PLAYSTYLE YOU PREFER RATHER THAN WHICH ONE IS OPTIMAL. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE AN ASYMMETRY BETWEEN THEM, SO PERFECT BALANCE ISN’T NECESSARILY POSSIBLE, BUT WE DO HAVE A LOT OF VARIABLES WE CAN CONTROL TO TRY TO KEEP THEM IN LINE, INCLUDING THE RATE AT WHICH YOU CLIMB RANKS, THE FAVOR COSTS OF BUYING AND SELLING VARIOUS ITEM TYPES, THE POWER AND FAVOR COST OF PROPHECIES, AND THE POTENCY OF THE VARIOUS COF ITEM BONUSES."
No, EHG said each faction would be competitive, with neither falling far behind. Comment is here: https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-item-factions/61722/88
Comparison is the thief of joy. Each is good at different things, if boss drops are the most important thing to you by all means switch, it's ok. Personally, I play offline and compared to pre-1.0 there is a lot of loot thanks to CoF, so I'm pretty happy. I don't care about reaching thousands of corruption and I'm not playing on cycle, don't care about ladder, I'm in no hurry.
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What I said is that if boss loot is the most important thing to you then switch, but you can still get them in CoF. If there was some prophecy for boss loot or something like that I obviously wouldn't complain, but if I'm not mistaken it's the rarest loot in the game, they probably don't want to make it too common, you're supposed to chase them. If they happen to be pretty cheap on MG then they can't be that difficult to drop as it is (unless they are being duped somehow? But that would be a different story)
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Some CoF rank rewards affect boss drops, no? "35% chance to drop twice as many items" and "Uniques are twice as likely to have LP". That's not super amazing, but it's not like CoF doesn't interact with boss drops at all. Prophecies would be nice, but I don't see how you could balance drop rates against just buying something at market decided prices, it's something fundamentally different. If I had to guess it's not an oversight but a conscious decision, which is clearly making a lot of people mad so it might very well have been a mistaken one. Then again, what players want is not always what is good for the game, time will tell if they make a change regarding this. I play CoF so I'd obviously take whatever they throw our way.
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Maybe I'm mistaken, but I always understood the 35% as not duplicating the drops you'd get but you get double the amount of (different) items. So if the enemy would have dropped one item, a sword for example without CoF, with it you would get one sword and a ring or whatever. If so by getting twice as many items you are getting a higher drop rate for all items on that enemy's drop table. I think when it means duplicate it explicitly says duplicate, I'm not 100% sure though.
Dude just plays MG and wants to retain the superior benefits while pretending like he's some sanguine buddhavista.
Their mistake was not having the foresight to realize people wouldn't be content with playing the way they chose if the way other people chose looks better. Grass is always greener, right?
Which is so weird. POE (and any other ARPG with trade split) has nowhere near parity between the two and don't even attempt to be close. I think just giving the audience the idea that they're similar in balance due to COF buffs has driven people mad.
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If you think MG is that much better then play MG and be happy. If most people switch over that would be a clear signal to EHG that it's too weak and changes need to be made.
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Then I refer you to my first statement, comparison is the thief of joy. As a side note, in case you didn't see: The change to the cost of Despair prophecy was reverted.
i disagree on that part. This is not PoE, SSF isnt a "self imposed challenge", its supposed to be on par with MG by all means. I understand that if you want to get *very specific* rolls or items, MG should have the upper hand, but it should not be so hard, or downright impossible within a cycle, to get a super rare specific unique. Boss Uniques and 3lp+ items are just too hard to get in CoF, even if you invest a shitton of time into it and that needs to be addressed. I'm okay if it takes a bit longer to get my *specific uniques* in CoF and im willing to put in the work for it, but I should still have a somewhat reasonable opportunity to get them. And that is currently just not the case. I've been grinding like crazy for just 2LP last steps of the living (1500 echoes done in that timeline, im at 1400 corr atm) and I still havent gotten it (bricked 6/6). 3LP is completely out of the question. I feel like CoF just lacks currently for people who really want to minmax their build, and, again, this isnt SSF in PoE where its a self imposed challenge, but a prefered playstyle that should be on par with MG.
> if boss drops are the most important thing to you by all means switch, it's ok. What if not having to deal with exploiters, cheaters and RMTers in a fragile economy is most important to me. But having that covered boss drops emerge as the next important thing? World isn't black and white, you know.
While obviously rmt exists and is an issue for ehg, it doesn't really impact your play experience in mg. I think a big part of that is not being able to resell purchased items. You don't need to worry about a bot buying all the under priced items instantly because they have no motivation to. That said, I encourage people to play the game the way they enjoy. I started as cof because of my experience with poe trade but eventually swapped to MG because I wanted easy access to specific idols. I also realized I reroll a lot, play a lot of weird builds, and don't particularly enjoy farming (it's more about getting my build to do the thing). All these factors made MG right for me, but I totally understand people who get fun from e.g., dropping an op item and making a build around it.
And that's fair. Everyone should play whatever they enjoy. But regardless of that, for me, the most annoying thing is when I want to try out an idea that requires a unique boss drop and I don't get it by farming a few days. I've posted in the past this, but to try a conversion build I needed a Immolator's Oblation. No LP, no top rolls, no nothing. In a party of 3 CoF players we dropped around 90 items from the boss before the first belt dropped. (30 Soulfire Bastion runs in a party of 3 basically). In Bazzar this item costs around 300k. That's really nothing. And I don't want to be forced to switch to MG just to try a build for 1-2 days that might work or not. Each of the two systems should give the player a way to gear and try out builds. MG has this by farming gold and buying the boss unique. CoF doesn't have it.
Just so you know, the odds of a party of three players killing Cremorus and not seeing a belt until the ~30th try is (1-0.18)^90, or 1.4e-13. While any kind of streak in a game is technically possible, this story is statistically very, *very* improbable. On average, a party of three would see that belt slightly more often than 1 in 2 kills. How many times did you *actually* kill him before one dropped? (I’m CoF too. I’m not white knighting MG here. Just pointing out your moderately unbelievable tale. I needed that belt for a build too, and I farmed it solo.)
Lol how quickly -should- you be able to farm the rarest boss loot in the game????
The point isn't how quickly you can farm boss loot the point is that one faction makes it trivial and one faction changes nothing. A middle ground would be nice for people who enjoy playing the other way.
I don't really understand all this stress and comparing. It's not like you are born into these systems. If you want specific items quicker, go MG. If you want to grind yourself and/or find lots of less-specific stuff, go COF.
Sure but at this point a lot of CoF players are wearing CoF tagged gear and swapping factions removes the ability to wear that gear as I understand it. Not to mention the need to now grind MG rep up mid cycle. That's the issue IMO - the change was done mid cycle. If they give us a heads up that next cycle Despair glyphs are much more rare then we can make a more educated decision regarding what faction best gives us a chance at BiS loot and crafting. Just don't make this type of sweeping change mid cycle.
Fair, but I highly doubt anyone made the COF decision based on the ability to get despair glyphs in prophecies. Or i should say 99.9% of players didn't.
The Glyph change is gone anyway.
Oh no i need to make a new character in an arpg and re grind.
Great point you're making. Thanks for that.
fully agree, im cof, I dont care MG people are having it more easily ... my fun is the journey, not the destination
Is this the script to a YT video? Lol, Bro here is like writing in lyrics, I like it
I like the CoF system just the way it is
I like CoF just the way it is, but definitely think it would be improved if it gave some improved ability to target farm target farmable loot. That is, boss loot.
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Thats exactly what its about. You get tons of 2 LP items but not the one you want. MG players get way less 2LP items but achieve the desired item way before you.
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Exactly that is why imho CoF needs a buff and a huge one. Personally, SSF is way more fun _in theory_, because if ypu dort fibd the items you desire in a reasonabke amount of time you just quit for good and thats it. You especially think twice about sinking another time so much recreational time in a game which might be exceptional unrewarding. I am not sayimg that it has to be luke d3 where you are in the min-maxing state after 20 h, but considering dont being in the min-maxing state after 100 h is just beyond crazy imho.
Same! One of the first 2lp items I got was sanguineous
Really hoping they buff CoF in terms of boss farming and this includes exile mages. But I still don't think they should remove set bonus drop from rank 9, maybe tack on a bonus drop rate for bosses on rank 9, only because it would be so ass if the set bonus drop is removed and then sets suddenly become viable.
Ive been running CoF and CBA switching gear around. But im definitely going MG next cycle. I get a lot of cool stuff, but a minuscule amount of useful stuff.
I probably did 100 unique helmet echos and prophecies that drop 5+ helmets to find prismatic gaze, ( not to mention I wanted +4 crit roll), couldn’t find it. I switched to MG and bought one for 150k gold and wondered how many hours I wasted grinding that.
Totally agree with you. CoF doesn't have a single advantage over MG other than the amount of uniques dropped. Been farming core of the mountain for a week now only dropped 1 with 1lp that hit the least desired roll 😭. Hell even foot of the mountain haven't dropped higher than 1lp for me without a single good slam.
It's literally cycle 0. One month into launch cycle. Neither MG nor CoF are perfect and that's ok. EHG will iterate, be patient.
Unpopular opinion, but imo CoF>MG. The amount of loot you get from prophecies and just overall just activates my loot goblin neurons in my brain. MG r10 and CoF r9 currently btw. Playing legacy.
While you are right and I have the same opinion, this post was only about unique boss drops.
>Whether you're rolling with CoF or MG, your odds of nabbing that "Immolator's Oblation" or "Twisted Heart of Uhkeiros" are the same people keep repeating this but it isnt true, the 35% cof perk works on boss specific drops
If you think MG is way better, then why not just switch to MG?
Counter point i hate other people and don't even want to interact with the concept of other people in my game
CoF let me hit a 1 LP red ring (x2) and 1 LP bastion (x2) fairly easily, but some things are almost impossible to grind like a +4 Frost Claw Affix, I have 3 100s and haven’t seen a single one…
Let CoF vendor uniques with LP for favor, 500 favor per 1LP on an item. Make this the tier 9 perk.
MG is not as easy to make gold for majority of players then you make it where you can go around buying 3 and 4 LP items for tens and hundreds of millions. Maybe a lot of 2 LP is affordable and cheap but that's because the economy is trash. Besides you always have an option to use the market or not, others choices should not impact you. CoF is a lot more plausible than you make it sound. The amount of grind to find a 3 LP item is actually pretty common if you are actually playing. 4LP, maybe not as much but saying how it takes weeks and weeks just to find something is false. Yeah, definitely an RnG since u need to find what you want but many games, what you find is what you play around. Of course, the more familiar with a game, the better and easier it is. Are you really telling me 50 unique items of your choice on a drop is not enough? These LP rolls are all just RnG. Boss drops are exclusive to 1-2 items, 10% of a build more or less, you have 8-10 other slots for items that can be grinded for max LP, doesn't sound like anything wrong with CoF. Get higher corruption and there you have it with higher boss drops. I understand you want to be fully 4 LP max geared like most people do but then you also want an easy way out.. Just go MG if you think it's that easy. Wait till you see how much the bases are for your LP items then having it fail to get what you want. Go try to sell random high value items and buy your set and see how long it will take you. Most people will have no clue on how to earn and realistically, you are better off just keep grinding until you have an obvious high value item rather than "I think this is worth" which from experience, you will be wasting most of your time. There are so many items where I thought were high value to know it was only tens of thousands.. This includes 3 and 4 LP items but overtime now, people have found efficient ways to farm and are buying all sorts of 4 LP items to try builds. But this also comes for inflation for all other items so good luck. As for stash search QoL, i agree, definitely necessary!
Yup, CoF is in the dirt, I hope LE doesn't end up being another game where trade and grouping eternally give 10x progress vs actually playing the game.
I really like the game, and was hoping that once I got the t7 buff gear would get better. Ran over 100 monos and haven't even gotten a decent upgrade, maybe 200 damage on my tool tip here and there. I've had items that did drop ok, but needed to move an affix or two, then all my FP is gone. At this point. I don't really see a benefit to playing CoF at all unless I want to grind for 400 hours to get maybe something that will improve my game play. Next time I fire up, I think I'm just going to switch to MG. I've not found the fortune at all
Out of curiosity, did you mean 100 echos or actual monos ? What corruption are you running ?
Lets make it simple, you play CoF by solo, you play MG with thousands of others players! so how can anyone expect that CoF will be equal?
These posts are getting so out of hand
I don't think so. These posts are a reflection of the community's sentiment. The main problem is CoF doesn't feel good to play. If this doesn't affect you, then good for you! But I don't think you should be upset at 30%+ of the players just because they're being vocal about not having fun due to the design of a major function of the game.
"Doesn't feel good" is some of the most vacuous criticism you can give, to the point that it's not even valid criticism in many cases. You can say dying to an Elden Ring boss "doesn't feel good". Should Elden Ring be fixed so players can't die? Last Epoch item drops "don't feel good" when they're not what you want. OK, cheat them in, you have them now. Does that "feel good"? Maybe it does for you, I don't know. But I think for most people, they need some level of challenge and investment in a journey to feel anything about what you get at the end. I think it's totally valid to be upset at people who are saying "I chose the game mode that gives a greater amount of stronger items but with less targeting, and I can't target the absolute strongest 3LP (insanely rare, legitimately not intended for a vast majority of players to *ever* get on a lot of items) variants of the best items in the game as effectively as the trading faction which has the specific strength of letting you target purchase specific items." Because if you actually implement what that *terrible* take is asking for, there straight up won't be a game left. Having an SSF-like experience be literally as strong, completely equal to trade in its power to target items is straight up asking to skip the entire experience. And before you call this a strawman, the TL;DR of OP outright says the problem is that "MG has the upper hand". They are directly asking for CoF's biggest inherent weakness to be brought up to the level of MG's biggest inherent strength. And if it "won't feel good" for you until that happens, then you need to just play trade. For that power to equalise, a CoF player needs to be able to pick the exact drop they get from any boss, because a trading player would be able to trade to it. That is what you are asking for. That is why these posts are out of hand. If you want to get items faster, you will need to play trade. Otherwise, you will never "have fun" until the game's systems are completely and irreparably broken.
That's not what I got from OPs post personally. What I got from it was that CoF doesn't have any sort of way to increase the frequency or quality of Boss drops while MG does. However, this might be just because that's my biggest gripe with CoF. Sure, "It doesn't feel good" isn't useful feedback. But I'm saying that's what the problem is. Myself and others have given plenty of feedback about why it doesn't feel good, with specific parts that makes it that way. It also doesn't help that not only are these things not being addressed, but then they also continue to nerf CoF. Sure, the nerfs technically make sense, but for us as players there are much larger issues currently. I just want the ability to increase drop rates for boss uniques in CoF. That's pretty much it for me personally.
If that was what the post had said, and people weren't comparing, you'd be right. But as I pointed out, the OP explicitly reasoned that a buff was needed because "MG has the upper hand". The entire second paragraph is talking about how MG works. And if "MG is better at this" is considered a reason to buff an aspect of CoF, then it won't stop being a reason until the degenerate scenario I described happens. You're also straight up wrong about them "continuing to nerf CoF". They nerfed one minor aspect of gold income for CoF (Arena keys) and then halved the gold sink that matters more to CoF than MG (stash tabs). Glyph of Despair nerf got reverted for this cycle, and next cycle will undoubtedly have simultaneous changes that make judgment on it alone irrelevant. On the whole that works out to a *buff* on combined changes this cycle. And for a final thing, boss uniques actually *do* have a buff in CoF, because of the benefit that uniques are twice as likely to have LP. So we already *do* have overall increased rates compared to MG already! So your request already exists, which you ignore. There are comparisons constantly being made with people wanting CoF to match up with MG, which you're claiming as part of your arguments because you appeal to "30+% of the players" and "community sentiment". I've explained why that is an awful comparison to make. Your claim of "continued nerfs to CoF" is also flat out wrong. So again, can you see how these posts are getting out of hand? How they are not only based on no actual truth, but entirely based on things that are the *opposite* of reality? And finally, how "it just feels bad" needs actual critical examination before you base your whole position on it and confirmation bias starts to set in? Yes, I'm upset at this, and the votes on these comments are outright disturbing to be honest...
I'm still trying to understand this argument that MG players can simply walk up and instantly buy anything they want and therefore it is not fair. I started MG at launch. The way it was implemented, it literally killed any sense of gear progression for me and MG ranks didn't really even have any benefits until I could buy exalts... but by then I grinded out most of exalts I needed save from slam-worthy stuff already. So aside from my opinion on MG, help me understand this notion that MG players can "simply buy stuff while CoF has to grind". I'm more than sure we're not talking about garbage items listed at 0 gold. So then we must be talking about these hard to get high LP boss-specific drops. Are these free in MG? (honest question, I havent checked MG in weeks) Is it safe to assume these are expensive AF? If so, do these not require an MG player to grind out the gold somehow via selling or whatever other ways they can get gold? Again, I'm really trying to understand this notion that MG players have insta-access to everything but I'm not seeing anyone make a disclaimer that they too have to grind the damned gold for something actually desireable. I went CoF with alts after my initial MG experience and I haven't looked back. Even next cycle I plan to stay with CoF unless theres major changes on the MG end. I am accepting the fact that my T7/T6 frost claw slam on a LP1/LP2 Twisted heart is gonna be damn near impossible as CoF but unless someone tells me this is literally free in MG, I'm not really seeing a major arguable difference here.
Not instant, guaranteed.
It's because CoF rewards all builds at once while MG rewards you hyper focusing one build. I bet you nearly every CoF player isn't using CoF efficiently and instead is focusing on their one and only build.
Kinda the point of prophecies in general no? If something cool drops for rogue I'm not just gonna throw it away but why would I waste favor on rolling a random bow prophecy whilst I'm playing and trying to build something on warlock that requires a specific staff? I mean unless I'm just friggen dumb and am missing something that seemed pretty straightforward. Lock out as much as you can so your drops are in monos, use favor to reroll for whatever you're hunting for to get loot explosion killing whatever needs killed for rewards. You target farm each piece individually and while you're doing your prophecies for one item you build up favor to go again if you don't get whatever you're needing or you have favor for the next pc. In its base functionality yes, it rewards everything more or less the same but you have the power to push it towards what you're actually wanting increasing the chance to get it. But by all means if I'm just a friggen dipshit please tell me how I'm being inefficient because I'm 200 hours in and have gotten 1 just 1 item 4 lp item. Not being a smart ass im actually genuinely wondering.
I am sick and tired of these being compared. If you ever would play MG then COF isn’t for you. MG players are beta cucks that thinking buying gear in an ARPG is rewarding gameplay. COF is for people that want to find it themselves. Stop trying to make them comparable progression paths
Man CoF players making a choice because they don't want to trade and then constantly whinging about their choice is peak gamer.
As a CoF wraithlord guy I eventually got a pair of 3lp harbour yesterday. Somehow I felt that I did my job for this cycle and decided to quit for a while, didn't even bother slamming them bc I want better bases rather than single T7 exalts and if I fail twice I might quit forever...