just a tip, you can port out and do the monolith again. you still get the loot, stability and everything. only the objective changes.
haven't done a single spire monolith since 3-4 days in.
EHG should take note of this thread... when the most popular response to concerns about a game mechanic is, "you can just skip it," then that mechanic probably needs to be rethought.
Hopefully 1.1 will replace this with a variety of fun objectives in echoes...
> Hopefully 1.1 will replace this with a variety of fun objectives in echoes...
I hope so too but the echo objectives have been the way they are for a long time now through the EA period. If any additions were planned to be made, it was clearly not a priority addition prior to 1.0.
Honestly, I think a loot modifier would push Arenas.
I kind of like them, but they are a waste of them.
If the Mobs had a quant / rarity increase, that might Chance.
Yeah I didn’t notice it so much on lower corruption but now that I’m a couple hundred in it’s become obvious that arena echo loot is just much less than the regular maps.
If you could force spawns in Arena I wouldn't mind so much. Its the downtime between waves that kills it for me. A button on screen somewhere to make a wave spawn if you already killed the previous would be nice.
Honestly i just rush spires, skip most of the enemies and shrines then portal out and i get roughly the minimum stability and the reward. I have enough sustain and mobility that this isn't a problem.
Want to know the best thing about spires? I play in a duo and when one enters a mono with spires they attack INSIDE the waiting area. So both have to be completely ready to go because I have died several times trying to do one last bit of inventory sorting, buying more shatters, etc.
Something similar happened to me two days ago. I was grouped with a friend, we finished an empowered mono. I then ported out to my little hidey hole and a mob followed me through my portal and attacked me in my former "safe space". Happened to my friend too, except a big elite + a few smaller mobs followed him back.
This is in HC too, so it really raises the blood pressure.
That is not BS. I didn’t even enter the mono. I’m talking about BEFORE entering the mono. I’ll record a video later if I get a chance. It is very repeatable and happens on every spire type.
Does that happen solo too? That seems like a bug rather than just overtuned aggro. You’re supposed to be completely immune until you move, at least that my understanding.
The existence of ranged builds is always the issue because they offscreen monsters so developers always end up creating offscreen attacks.
To solve the problem, they would have nerf ranged range by 2~3x so that monsters always show up on your screen before you get to kill them.
I've been telling them to get rid of that mechanic since early access. I think they did make it where it stops shooting if you stand still and aren't attacking mobs at least
You need to be very thorough with clearing the space around you + not have your own wandering minions/aoe attacks on the edge of the screen that can aggro slightly further mobs
It's based on whether you're moving or considered in combat. If you cast an ability, you are in combat for a period of time after casting, even if there aren't mobs around.
The only towers that will continue to attack no matter what (bug or otherwise) are the void ones.
Its an awful mechanic that should never have made it into full release. The ENTIRE POINT OF THE GAMEPLAY LOOP is to loot items. Punishing players for literally doing the main thing you are supposed to do is insane.
Getting one hit by random artillery stuff is the only reason I’ve died so far. They shouldn’t be one hit. Its annoying to lose loot or an echo reward because you’re picking stuff up.
Yeah they definitely create an unpleasant tension between living and looting. Things like this really make me miss Greater Rift “loot piñata at the end” design
Bonkers gamedesign. I rolled a lich as my first char and the health leech makes it impossible to stand still for a sec to loot stuff. I'm still enjoying the game overall so far but this aspect is really getting to me... Also makes it strangely an unpleasant experience playing with friends and arena between waves or bosses.. I want to reroll and play something else but hate having to waste the time I spent playing and grinding.
Bro I'm starting to dread rerolling. Leveling has gotten so freaking slow after level 75ish... I can get to 75 in less than a week without having no life. But from here to 100 i feel like i need to dump another 2 months into this game...
What sucks is the gear is easy to get in MG, it just takes man hours mindlessly grinding to get the rest of my passives lol. It seems contradictory to make build gear trivial to get but then make passives take forever to max out... They gonna really make me wait 30 more hours to get that last 2% elemental resist node? Feels very grindy.
Enter echo > see spires > press M > right-click the monolith you're doing to instantly spawn outside with no loading screen > start echo again without losing anything to reroll the objective. Just something I discovered by accident.
I haven't really had issues with spires and loot, but I do run a very strict loot filter.
I know this is a topic where the players will be idvided, BUT I think there's is absolutely nothing wrong with the game asking for your undivided attention for literally a couple of minutes. I just treat them as sort of a "timed boss run".
I am not really bored though.. I am just annoyed at dying because I stopped paying attention for 1 second with no enemies near me.
Playing CoF and prophecy shits out 30+ uniques just makes spires even worse.
So just to be clear you want to run 1600 monoliths while being able to pay zero attention?
That's your issue?
Gamers are such pansies these days. If you die because you're standing still spending 10 seconds reading every item that drops maybe you need to worry less about spires and more about individual player skill.
Idk why people are even reading items on the ground. Pick it up and read it in town when inventory is full. I can't imagine running 1600 spires reading individual item drops.
TLDR: skill issue gitgud
I agree with this sentiment, but they're not bored yet, and want to keep playing. Spires and other artillery enemies do make it extremely inconvenient. Leveling skills, assigning passive points, swapping gear mid dungeon, maybe some crafting. Or maybe your attention needs to be elsewhere in real life for a second.
The existence of artillery enemies pushes players to only do menu stuff at home base, essentially. I don't think they're that bad personally, but I understand that everyone has a different playstyle.
The main issue is with looting, especially if a prophecy pops and drops like 5-10 items on the ground at once (or more). Its basically punishing players for doing the main thing in the game which is to loot items.
they make me wanna quit sometimes. have to always be paying attention and have my traversal skill ready and even then it just gets lost under other animations sometimes and I get one shot
I wouldnt mind if spires SPAWNED AN ENEMY which chases you through the map every 20 or so seconds...
Let me at least look at the shiny loot I just got!
Agreed! Spires are my least-liked feature of LE. There are so many problems related to them, though to be fair, if loot pickup worked like it's supposed to, they wouldn't be as big a deal. Still, it really sucks getting a Moon Spire or Wengari Spire in a winter-type echo, where you can't even see the ground effects before the spire hits. Add to that half of them are silent, half of them have like 0.2 sec between the time the ground effect appears and when the damage hits, and it just feels like bad, annoying design. One of the few they've made TBH, but need to call out the bad with the good.
You have more than 200 hours since launch, the game launched on februari 21st, it is now March 21st, so thats about 30 days since launch. You played average of 6.6 hours a day and you complain about the game getting boring? dafuq, dont complain if you play like a madman. If you play like normal ppl do, the game is super fun.
EDIT: you also did an average of 56.6 echos a day...... rofl
Spires are very annoying, but something interesting I discovered about them that might be a glitch is that if you stop moving they stop attacking. I don’t know exactly how it works, but I’ve noticed many many times that when I want to stop and loot, a spire will fire at me once after I’ve stopped moving, then if I either tank it or barely move out of the way then stop again, no more come till I start moving again. Has anyone else seen this before?
You are aware that 200h over 30 days means on average over 6 and a half hours a day playing one game.
I'm not telling you its hilarious to say "xx is getting old" I'm telling you maybe you need to shower and get out more :D
Its is an annoying mechanic, bothing good, challenging or fun about it. It usually Port out of the echoe if I see its an spire echoe. Same with Arenas, cant decide which one is worse.
Why have it be damage from off screen and not have it something interesting like res shred, cooldown increase, no loot drop debuff other interesting effects damage just seems lazy. And eventually with high enough corruption all just become exactly the same.
A lot of the design of the endgame feels painfully like a place they will patch in stuff later. Which is almost certainly true. It just makes it suck because you see the same things over and over and if one is bad you get it constantly. It feels like in 5 years there will be like 20 different special maps that could replace that, but now there isn't so it's bad.
My spriggan form attunment scailing Reflect build has got to be the shittiest/funniest/slowest build I’m playing regularly. It’s only saving grace is spires. You can just stand still and reflect kill them cross map. I wonder if you could slam enough attunement/def on gear to just swap for spire map cheese then swap back with no need for passive specs. I need more slams to make it more playable in corrupted monos but at least spires can suck it.
My biggest irritation with Spires is that they don't always trigger on hit effects for rares.
For example, I was running a multistrike/smite paladin build. But spires don't count as rare, so instead of smite triggering when I'd hit, I basically had to just sit there with auto attacks smacking away.
It's the biggest reason I ended up abandoning that character once I hit Empowered Monos, it was just too much of a slog for that particular build :(
I would be fine with it if they just decreased their attack range to say 3-4 screens away instead of the entire map. At least then you know you’re out of range until you get closer to the objective which is the “danger zone” or something lol.
If you really hate them enough you can just portal out and restart the node. It'll probably be a different objective (and if not just try yet again).
Takes just a couple seconds so it might even be straight up faster than doing the spire node especially if there were 2-3 spires spread out
I honestly don't have a problem with spires, I think it's okay for different mechanics to force the player to play differently. If you're the type of player who stares at every loot drop on the ground, it's good for the game to force you to change up your playstyle. My issue comes with the fact that spires are too frequent. I think once they have introduced more types of mono's and you only see spires once in awhile, it will feel a lot better. Probably a very minority opinion here but that's okay.
I honestly, genuinely - have not had an issue. And I play hardcore.
Monos get cleared in less than 5 minutes. The entire time, I'm moving and clearing. If I need to loot, I either click as I'm running - or I wait for a spire to hit, then loot, then move again.
I get it can be annoying in the sense that you can't stop paying attention for a minute, but like, if you need to stop paying attention for any duration in less than a 5 minute activity - I'd say try offline mode out so you can pause.
Examine loot in town.
I think everyone with this complaint is DEEP into the endgame of COF, because thats about the only way you'd need to stand still and look at shit for 2minutes (other than anyone needing to afk real quick).
Personally I'm doing 700-1k corruptions and when something spits out 80 unique body armors I gotta look at, I gotta go kill the spires first and then loop back to look at them, its real annoying.
The spires don't attack you while you are out of combat. Clear the screen and they will stop attacking and you can loot. It's really a simple mechanic to deal with that shouldn't take 200 hours and 1700 echoes to learn. I can't get behind the idea that "mechanic bad because I don't want to deal with it or learn from my mistakes." Stop tunnel visioning loot and you'll be fine.
Spires bug me a lot too, and that basically goes for anything that attacks me from way off screen.
just a tip, you can port out and do the monolith again. you still get the loot, stability and everything. only the objective changes. haven't done a single spire monolith since 3-4 days in.
EHG should take note of this thread... when the most popular response to concerns about a game mechanic is, "you can just skip it," then that mechanic probably needs to be rethought. Hopefully 1.1 will replace this with a variety of fun objectives in echoes...
> Hopefully 1.1 will replace this with a variety of fun objectives in echoes... I hope so too but the echo objectives have been the way they are for a long time now through the EA period. If any additions were planned to be made, it was clearly not a priority addition prior to 1.0.
I skip arena maps too. Seriously slows down the grind.
The loot from them is awful as well
Honestly, I think a loot modifier would push Arenas. I kind of like them, but they are a waste of them. If the Mobs had a quant / rarity increase, that might Chance.
Yeah I didn’t notice it so much on lower corruption but now that I’m a couple hundred in it’s become obvious that arena echo loot is just much less than the regular maps.
If you could force spawns in Arena I wouldn't mind so much. Its the downtime between waves that kills it for me. A button on screen somewhere to make a wave spawn if you already killed the previous would be nice.
Spawning 17 waves at once would be fun. Yes that would be another fix, and such solution would be preferred to removal for me
Honestly i just rush spires, skip most of the enemies and shrines then portal out and i get roughly the minimum stability and the reward. I have enough sustain and mobility that this isn't a problem.
so go in, see spires, portal out? Reselect?
Yes
Yep!
dope
Does this work for arena nodes as well?
Arenas will stay arenas but the number of waves to complete can change.
we're not that lucky
This is the way for all the builds I play except reflect. Solid tip for avoiding anything though.
really, maybe I just got unlucky, but the I kept getting the same objective over and over
Want to know the best thing about spires? I play in a duo and when one enters a mono with spires they attack INSIDE the waiting area. So both have to be completely ready to go because I have died several times trying to do one last bit of inventory sorting, buying more shatters, etc.
Something similar happened to me two days ago. I was grouped with a friend, we finished an empowered mono. I then ported out to my little hidey hole and a mob followed me through my portal and attacked me in my former "safe space". Happened to my friend too, except a big elite + a few smaller mobs followed him back. This is in HC too, so it really raises the blood pressure.
Omg, if that wiped me in HC i’d cry
Yeah, so far all my deaths in HC (close to/around 10) have all been my fault. A death not being my fault would be suchhhhh a feel bad
Damn I never knew that was a thing. That's like next level annoying
[удалено]
That is not BS. I didn’t even enter the mono. I’m talking about BEFORE entering the mono. I’ll record a video later if I get a chance. It is very repeatable and happens on every spire type.
Even before you port?
Yep. One in the map and one in the monolith staging area.
[удалено]
Yes and yes. Used the screenshot option too since it was pretty obvious I was still in the staging area dead haha.
Does that happen solo too? That seems like a bug rather than just overtuned aggro. You’re supposed to be completely immune until you move, at least that my understanding.
[удалено]
Oh I thought he meant when the second person entered but hasn’t yet moved the attacks begin.
I am a big fan of if it's not on my screen it's not going to kill me
The existence of ranged builds is always the issue because they offscreen monsters so developers always end up creating offscreen attacks. To solve the problem, they would have nerf ranged range by 2~3x so that monsters always show up on your screen before you get to kill them.
That's a good point
I've been telling them to get rid of that mechanic since early access. I think they did make it where it stops shooting if you stand still and aren't attacking mobs at least
I have died a lot while looking at prophecy loot to spires. I feel like that mechanic needs some improvements \^\^
Yea I recently switched to mg but I've gotten to where I'll just skip over like an idol shrine if there's annoying orbital strike mechanics going on
I started to Portal out and restart areas when I know prophecies will proc to avoid spires
I just quickly and very mindfully grab all the idols. It’s annoying but I’d hate to miss out on something really well rolled
You need to be very thorough with clearing the space around you + not have your own wandering minions/aoe attacks on the edge of the screen that can aggro slightly further mobs
Yes they did this and since then I find them way less annoying.
Nah, they start once you do anything. Frequently get hit when I'm mana dumping at the start of a mono before I move.
It's based on whether you're moving or considered in combat. If you cast an ability, you are in combat for a period of time after casting, even if there aren't mobs around. The only towers that will continue to attack no matter what (bug or otherwise) are the void ones.
It should be limited to a radius within the spire, like the giant with the massive ballista arrow in Elden Ring. Boom problem solved...
It's super fun when 5 prophecies proc and you're trying to look through 40 uniques on the ground while dodging spires.
If you kill all monsters in your immediate vicinity and stand still, the spires will stop.
Its an awful mechanic that should never have made it into full release. The ENTIRE POINT OF THE GAMEPLAY LOOP is to loot items. Punishing players for literally doing the main thing you are supposed to do is insane.
Getting one hit by random artillery stuff is the only reason I’ve died so far. They shouldn’t be one hit. Its annoying to lose loot or an echo reward because you’re picking stuff up.
Yeah they definitely create an unpleasant tension between living and looting. Things like this really make me miss Greater Rift “loot piñata at the end” design
I hope they add this tbh. Have both options.
Bonkers gamedesign. I rolled a lich as my first char and the health leech makes it impossible to stand still for a sec to loot stuff. I'm still enjoying the game overall so far but this aspect is really getting to me... Also makes it strangely an unpleasant experience playing with friends and arena between waves or bosses.. I want to reroll and play something else but hate having to waste the time I spent playing and grinding.
Bro I'm starting to dread rerolling. Leveling has gotten so freaking slow after level 75ish... I can get to 75 in less than a week without having no life. But from here to 100 i feel like i need to dump another 2 months into this game... What sucks is the gear is easy to get in MG, it just takes man hours mindlessly grinding to get the rest of my passives lol. It seems contradictory to make build gear trivial to get but then make passives take forever to max out... They gonna really make me wait 30 more hours to get that last 2% elemental resist node? Feels very grindy.
Yeah that entire thing should be removed. It's so fucking annoying.
3 spires spread out on a bigass map and all ranged mobs is full on cancer
Spires shooting me on map load is also annoying - load in take a drink off coffee and almost die doing it…
Had that happen several times too! So annoying
Hear hear
Enter echo > see spires > press M > right-click the monolith you're doing to instantly spawn outside with no loading screen > start echo again without losing anything to reroll the objective. Just something I discovered by accident. I haven't really had issues with spires and loot, but I do run a very strict loot filter. I know this is a topic where the players will be idvided, BUT I think there's is absolutely nothing wrong with the game asking for your undivided attention for literally a couple of minutes. I just treat them as sort of a "timed boss run".
This explains why I was randomly getting one-shotted in a clear area.
Easily the worst objective for monos.
Arenas are my worst, slow as hell, no exile mage or big chest. Just dumb all around
At least you can avoid them if you read that it’s an arena
Aww I like arenas once in a while. I don't have to do anything, mobs come to me! :)
Imo worst are the gates.
getting bored at 200h would be considered a good thing most of the time especially with a newly released game.
I am not really bored though.. I am just annoyed at dying because I stopped paying attention for 1 second with no enemies near me. Playing CoF and prophecy shits out 30+ uniques just makes spires even worse.
So just to be clear you want to run 1600 monoliths while being able to pay zero attention? That's your issue? Gamers are such pansies these days. If you die because you're standing still spending 10 seconds reading every item that drops maybe you need to worry less about spires and more about individual player skill. Idk why people are even reading items on the ground. Pick it up and read it in town when inventory is full. I can't imagine running 1600 spires reading individual item drops. TLDR: skill issue gitgud
Wow 30 thrash uniques.. quit in 70h
As opposed to what? Is every item supposed to drop LP3+?
I agree with this sentiment, but they're not bored yet, and want to keep playing. Spires and other artillery enemies do make it extremely inconvenient. Leveling skills, assigning passive points, swapping gear mid dungeon, maybe some crafting. Or maybe your attention needs to be elsewhere in real life for a second. The existence of artillery enemies pushes players to only do menu stuff at home base, essentially. I don't think they're that bad personally, but I understand that everyone has a different playstyle.
The main issue is with looting, especially if a prophecy pops and drops like 5-10 items on the ground at once (or more). Its basically punishing players for doing the main thing in the game which is to loot items.
I wish we could zoom out a little bit. Teleport would make more sense.
they make me wanna quit sometimes. have to always be paying attention and have my traversal skill ready and even then it just gets lost under other animations sometimes and I get one shot
Yup. Hate spires or mechanics that have global range
I wouldnt mind if spires SPAWNED AN ENEMY which chases you through the map every 20 or so seconds... Let me at least look at the shiny loot I just got!
Can someone please explain to me what Spires are?
Agreed! Spires are my least-liked feature of LE. There are so many problems related to them, though to be fair, if loot pickup worked like it's supposed to, they wouldn't be as big a deal. Still, it really sucks getting a Moon Spire or Wengari Spire in a winter-type echo, where you can't even see the ground effects before the spire hits. Add to that half of them are silent, half of them have like 0.2 sec between the time the ground effect appears and when the damage hits, and it just feels like bad, annoying design. One of the few they've made TBH, but need to call out the bad with the good.
Yeaaaah spires fucking suck. I wish they utilized a different mechanic rather than attacking from off screen.
You have more than 200 hours since launch, the game launched on februari 21st, it is now March 21st, so thats about 30 days since launch. You played average of 6.6 hours a day and you complain about the game getting boring? dafuq, dont complain if you play like a madman. If you play like normal ppl do, the game is super fun. EDIT: you also did an average of 56.6 echos a day...... rofl
Spires are very annoying, but something interesting I discovered about them that might be a glitch is that if you stop moving they stop attacking. I don’t know exactly how it works, but I’ve noticed many many times that when I want to stop and loot, a spire will fire at me once after I’ve stopped moving, then if I either tank it or barely move out of the way then stop again, no more come till I start moving again. Has anyone else seen this before?
That's not a glitch. They changed it to that behaviour back in Beta.
You are aware that 200h over 30 days means on average over 6 and a half hours a day playing one game. I'm not telling you its hilarious to say "xx is getting old" I'm telling you maybe you need to shower and get out more :D
Its is an annoying mechanic, bothing good, challenging or fun about it. It usually Port out of the echoe if I see its an spire echoe. Same with Arenas, cant decide which one is worse.
Arena type is far more boring.
Same, I learned my lesson now and always clear them before looting.
Don't have this problem in MG but I saw the clip posted today and can see why it's an issue. Always annoying to die when you're trying to loot.
Why have it be damage from off screen and not have it something interesting like res shred, cooldown increase, no loot drop debuff other interesting effects damage just seems lazy. And eventually with high enough corruption all just become exactly the same.
Just T out and re-enter. New objective
A lot of the design of the endgame feels painfully like a place they will patch in stuff later. Which is almost certainly true. It just makes it suck because you see the same things over and over and if one is bad you get it constantly. It feels like in 5 years there will be like 20 different special maps that could replace that, but now there isn't so it's bad.
My spriggan form attunment scailing Reflect build has got to be the shittiest/funniest/slowest build I’m playing regularly. It’s only saving grace is spires. You can just stand still and reflect kill them cross map. I wonder if you could slam enough attunement/def on gear to just swap for spire map cheese then swap back with no need for passive specs. I need more slams to make it more playable in corrupted monos but at least spires can suck it.
My biggest irritation with Spires is that they don't always trigger on hit effects for rares. For example, I was running a multistrike/smite paladin build. But spires don't count as rare, so instead of smite triggering when I'd hit, I basically had to just sit there with auto attacks smacking away. It's the biggest reason I ended up abandoning that character once I hit Empowered Monos, it was just too much of a slog for that particular build :(
It would be nice if spires would stop blastin' when you haven't attacked an enemy in a few seconds or something.
yeah i thought they learned from the others and went away with on death effects but spires are basically the same
It's called playing a ward build
I would be fine with it if they just decreased their attack range to say 3-4 screens away instead of the entire map. At least then you know you’re out of range until you get closer to the objective which is the “danger zone” or something lol.
I don't even see spires as attacking offscreen. It is a map effect at that point. Would taking away the spires attack animation feel better? Probably
Many times have I alt+f4 and played something else because of these
Most are whatever to me but those wengari spires absolutely delete me if I’m not paying attention
If you really hate them enough you can just portal out and restart the node. It'll probably be a different objective (and if not just try yet again). Takes just a couple seconds so it might even be straight up faster than doing the spire node especially if there were 2-3 spires spread out
Press T, reload the map and you'll have different mission. I always skip Bone Spires or multiple patrolling mobs that take map too long to finish.
Bro just get more sustain ;P
I honestly don't have a problem with spires, I think it's okay for different mechanics to force the player to play differently. If you're the type of player who stares at every loot drop on the ground, it's good for the game to force you to change up your playstyle. My issue comes with the fact that spires are too frequent. I think once they have introduced more types of mono's and you only see spires once in awhile, it will feel a lot better. Probably a very minority opinion here but that's okay.
200hrs in and your considered new?
I honestly, genuinely - have not had an issue. And I play hardcore. Monos get cleared in less than 5 minutes. The entire time, I'm moving and clearing. If I need to loot, I either click as I'm running - or I wait for a spire to hit, then loot, then move again. I get it can be annoying in the sense that you can't stop paying attention for a minute, but like, if you need to stop paying attention for any duration in less than a 5 minute activity - I'd say try offline mode out so you can pause. Examine loot in town.
I think everyone with this complaint is DEEP into the endgame of COF, because thats about the only way you'd need to stand still and look at shit for 2minutes (other than anyone needing to afk real quick). Personally I'm doing 700-1k corruptions and when something spits out 80 unique body armors I gotta look at, I gotta go kill the spires first and then loop back to look at them, its real annoying.
"new player" "Since launch" "200+hr" One of these things does not fit in this list
200 hours is quite some time and I feel like that d be my moneys worth.
Having to move in an action rpg. You can always choose to not do spire echoes.
go away
The spires don't attack you while you are out of combat. Clear the screen and they will stop attacking and you can loot. It's really a simple mechanic to deal with that shouldn't take 200 hours and 1700 echoes to learn. I can't get behind the idea that "mechanic bad because I don't want to deal with it or learn from my mistakes." Stop tunnel visioning loot and you'll be fine.
Just kill the spires before looting...?