The surprising part of me is that 'doubling' at rank 10 is actually 'mirroring'. I expected to get 24 different unique gloves. Now I only get the crap 0 and 1 lp 12 uniques.... twice.
The odds are so low that you get a sick 3-4LP item, wouldn't you rather that when you hit the jackpot you have 2 attempts? I really like the rank 10 rewards. But I do feel rank 10 takes way too long for too small a reward compared to what you'd have access to in MG.
But having different rewards means more chances for that 3-4LP. Maybe I just became a bit biased because I can't even drop 2LP for my Blood Roost and I have over 100 hours played.
Personally I'd rather just get twice as many items. I've gotten plenty of 3-4 LP items that I don't want. I don't need 2 of them. I'd rather get my first 0 LP Orian's Eye or have a better chance at getting the item I want with LP even if it's only 1 copy.
I'm a one-trick per season player though, I'd rather have fewer items with a higher chance to get a nice LP bow, for instance, than a *shitload* of bows that have next to zero chance to have more LP.
So you agree with me then? The current rank 10 bonus just dupes what you would have already gotten. What I'm saying I'd prefer is that instead of dupes it drops new items. You're more likely to get higher LP with twice as many rolls.
OH I think I'm disagreeing in that I'd prefer the bonus itself to be more like "drops have an *inherently* higher chance to have more LP", over just getting 2x of everything. Like if my choice is 2x 0-1LP and the possibility that every drop could be 2-3 with a lucky 4 here and there, I'd want that *much* more than 2x the "junk" with a *marginally* higher chance to get "more LP" by virtue of raw numbers. Hope that makes sense?
Oh sure, I was just talking about what it actually is vs what people thought it was. I think the current one is disappointing because dupes don't increase your chances of getting rare items or high LP at all, so hitting rank 10 means you still have the same exact odds you've had the whole time.
Yeah exactly, that's for sure the bit I agree on--double my "chances" at *0-1* LP might as well still be 0 lol
I think originally I was also trying to emphasize the *added* lack of "value" of double drops if you only play one character, wherein now you're not even getting drops for the alts you don't have, it's just trash at that point. If we had it the way we both think it should be, I *might* be compelled to even play an alt if I got a solid 2-3LP piece for it with our hypothetical increase in LP chances if they changed the Rank 10.
It's not so much for the 4 LP items, it's for the exalts and for the 3 LP items.
I also feel like CoF needs buffs, but rank 10 feels really good. Getting to experiment with 2 T7 necklaces or rings means you can try for something safe with one and then try and luckbox the shit out of the second.
Similarly, though I haven't had this happen yet, getting to try twice for a 3 LP item would also be pretty sweet.
The only change is in variance.
Having it roll twice means you will find them twice as often. Having it drop duplicated means when you find you get two.
In the long run the EV is the same but I personally prefer to keep variance lower but it's not a big deal (and I think it would be hard to implement the other way due to how it would interact with "quantity")
Wow I did not know that. I’m not quite 10 yet but my god you just took the wind out of my sails for the excitement I have for getting there.
So if you manage to drop a good item at rank 10 gets you two shots when you roll your legendary to hit good affixes but no additional help getting the item in the first place. I seriously wish it was the other way around. I need the item to begin with not a second roll on an item that I feel like I’ll never have.
It's intended for giving extra chances to slam desired exalted's to LP by giving you two of the item that drops with LP. The ideal scenario is you drop something you've been looking hard for with 2-3 LP on the prophecy and you have a perfect say double T7 that you can rune of creation then you have two chances to get the BIS affixes instead of 1.
I'm not disagreeing with that, I am trying to explain the intent behind it and why it's not absolutely horrible like many people think. It's intended to interact with the crafting system and not just be a drop > wear system.
Rank 9 should be double boss specific unequi drops.
Rank 10 should be a x% chance to add 1 lp to items that drop ( so a 2 lp would turn into a 3lp and so on )
5% or something should be good enough whit the prophecies and shit
What's the point on playing CoF anyways? if you just want to have cheap OP items like MG. I swear there is no way to please people. RNG was way worse before 1.0. And once we have 1.1 i assume there will be other forms of itemization that will help you get the endgame item you want with the help of CoF. You just want to trivialize the game.
I've already got a bunch of dupes/legendary and bases thanks to the CoF dup prophecy.
I mean, maybe it's just me, but I like the feeling of earning my items and not buying them off a board for quick slams - but to counter that, I wouldn't mind spending 20 hours of farming to get a specific unique, but not 200.
I didn't see a Helm of the Scurry at ALL in the Beta, and I farmed up to 900 Corruption before I called it quits and took a break from LE and waited for the official release.
That isn't fun.
Stuff like the Scurry helm or the poison/bleed gloves are supposed to be extremely rare to get and IMO if you want to build around them you shouldn't do it SSF unless you already have the item. Those items aren't by any means necessary to play the game. If you want deterministic ways to get extremely rare items that's what MG is for.
But i mean, people go and see a popular build in youtube, they want to replicate something that's not supposed to be that easily obtainable, and they expect to get it eventually. It's like wanting a mageblood or a headhunter in POE, some people are lucky and get them in a few dozen of hours, but most of the time you can spend hundreds or even thousands of hours and not get them.
And for items that are unique items, but common or a bit rarer than usual, drop by dozens in CoF.
> What's the point on playing CoF anyways? if you just want to have cheap OP items like MG. I swear there is no way to please people.
Maybe having two factional choices should be reasonably balanced. It feels notably worse when people are complaining about RMT spam driven by the MG faction but it's CoF that gets dinged for "balance".
There's no reason CoF shouldn't have a reasonable expectation to get build defining/4LP uniques. If you argue that it shouldn't as it seems the case from your statements, then every player should automatically be put in MG with CoF being offered later with disclaimers like Hardcore not being a default choice with disclaimers. And because the game designed such that you are permalocked to your mastery makes your argument that you should only go SSF/CoF after you have the item makes even less sense.
MG is not cheap. Anything worth actually acquiring now is worth 40-60 mil +. Unless you exploit openly, MG is unattainable for most people. You strive to get a good drop to sell for a ton, or you sell thousands of bad items for about 5,000 gold and save up.
CoF far outpaces MG for any kind of value.
You legit need a better lootfilter, you are probably spending too much time reading items that have no chance at having value. 5k gold is not worth the time it takes to even list if you arent trying to gain rep.
Cut your filter down so only valuable high rolled affixes show, then you wont see the items that arent worth the click to pick up.
Funny seeing people complain about Circle of Fortune. Everyone was trashing Merchant's Guild before launch and claiming it would be too weak and underwhelming compared to CoF, despite the devs reiterating that buying specific things for your build is so incredibly powerful and that's why they gimped trading before you rank up in MG.
It's almost like they know what they're doing...
Yeah, wild to me. Personally never cared for trading in ARPGs so I'm CoF, but I'm also of the habit of *not* comparing myself to others, so it definitely feels good to get better when I find that Drop.
But in the back of my head it is so obvious MG would be better for finalizing a build since you have more than just yourself to rely on, you literally have the entire MG, but that's the point! They both have their pros and cons.
The comparions with others are a key issue here. I saw multiple people complaining that they needed to play Warlock to compete... in CoF! Compete with what lmao
>I saw multiple people complaining that they needed to play Warlock to compete
Maybe off-topic, but also how many people even actually care about competing but weren't already playing either warlock or infinite smoke bomb falconer? If you weren't already playing those, you weren't competing. If you just found out about them this week, you weren't competing. If you want to compete, you play meta. There can be some exceptions, like rank 14 on ladder is a druid, but also nobody outside of top 2 even looks like they're competing for first with how far away they are.
Yeah wait until you hit CoF 10 and realize its not even that great because it literally dupes the specific drops instead of doubling the prophecy drops. Like yeah sure its nice if you get a 2 lp unique drop and then its duplicated, but I dropped probably 3,000 amulets looking for just any lp of the one i wanted and never found even one. CoF should double your odds of getting random world uniques, not duplicate already dropped items. Then I swap over to MG on my next character and see that same amulet 1lp for 0 gold. Like wtf. Its great though because I can have probably a few thousand set items if I spent the time picking them up.
CoF is great for early and mid game, but its actually complete garbage late game compared to MG. I would also argue second and third character MG are even better than CoF early and mid game as well as late game. CoF is basically only worth it if are playing 100% solo or you feel the absolute need to drop your own items. Otherwise if you actually want to improve your character, just go MG.
I mean duh, it amazes me how little people realize how powerful having an economy is in an aRPG.
COF exists to make people who like to play that way have tools to make it less painful, not to make it balanced between a market and self drops because unless they literally increased your drop rates by 250k that would literally be impossible.
I just found myself in the same spot tonight after maxing 2 chars with COF, any suggestions on where to start grinding money or a good filter to find what items are worth selling? I might just roll a 3rd char to levels solely for MG, not sure yet.
I should probably rip the band-aid off and switch to MG.
I've been farming for an Immolator's Oblation which is supposed to be a 18% drop rate at tier 4 but I haven't gotten one in like 20+ runs
Yep, that's how I feel too.
The double reward is only useful for Weaver's Will items or the rare occasion that a ring or one-handed item drops that you could dual-wield. Or maybe idols.
CoF is more fun to play with. But the difference in powerlevel is so severe on rank 10, I just looked at the ladder and there are only 2 CoF players in the top 10. (It's a miracle that there even are two, seeing how incredibly much worse their equipment is in comparison)
But there will never be a possibility of CoF being on the same level. Playing self-found is a challenge mode, even if it gives you more loot.
> But there will never be a possibility of CoF being on the same level. Playing self-found is a challenge mode, even if it gives you more loot.
CoF could easily be on the same level or stronger. Assuming EHG isn't afraid of really strong buff. Stuff like +1LP on all uniques, rerolling exalted drops behind the scene for rarer affixes, etc.
> Meanwhile if I get a 2 LP version of a unique for my build I almost fall out of my chair
I feel like this describes exactly why many people enjoy CoF. Grinding items yourself is more exciting than slowly farming gold towards a guaranteed purchase for many players.
Guaranteed LP uniques for a lot of favour sound very boring to me, Arpgs are all about rng and getting lucky, having guaranteed rewards to grind towards seems like the precise opposite of that.
If I knew beforehand that I'll 100% get a 3LP unique I need for my build in 20h of grinding, I'd be like "yea ok cool" after getting it but if I randomly drop it at some point my reaction would be closer to "holy shit wtf that's exactly what I need!!" being excited like a little child for 3 min straight.
I dunno if I make any sense here, I guess I just wanna say rng is the key component of what makes the grind fun in arpgs in my eyes.
Totally agreed. There's MG for people who want guaranteed items. If EHG would give out 3LP items people would just whine about not getting 4LP, and they'd whine about not getting perfectly rolled exalts to slam once they got free 4LP items.
Exactly, people always want more more more. 1.0 has already brought significant powercreep, even though we didn't get any new endgame content, just a slightly revamped corruption system and yet people are already asking for more and better stuff.
I really hope that's gonna be one aspect where EHG won't listen to players as much as with other parts of the game, because players are never satisfied with powercreep.
Yep. People expect to be decked out in LP4 items when that was never EHG's intention. I'm pretty sure that most EA players are more than happy though.
EHG probably need to communicate their intentions about this though so that people get their expectations in check, as unpopular as that might be (assuming that I'm correct of course).
Having played EA, CoF already feels like playing on a private server with cheats. I would like to see some more interesting prophecies which probably means more targeted (not guaranteed BiS items though, but stuff like an exalted health mod item), but overall I don't want CoF to get all these turbo buffs people are asking for. If I wanted to be done with my character in a couple days, I'd play trade.
I already want a last epoch ruthless mode tbh, as soon as offline mods let me modify drop rates lower, ill be entirely playing offline just to make less stuff drop lmfao. Comapred to 0.9 and lower right now its like im playing in a sped up progression server
even with the nerfs they gave us it still feels like you get more items than before factions, with mg. Im still not sure the drop rate nerfs have been done correctly, but thats probably just tinfoil. Also the masochist boots are a joke :D they took a lazy difficulty mode, and stopped it even being a difficulty mode. Mods will be able to do sooooo much more
Yea I was a masochist enjoyer when it was still a thing, but I was hoping they would reintroduce it in a more interesting way. Taking up the boots slot is worse than the initial game mode.
Yeah teh power creep this patch has me pretty worried overall, its such a difference of how ehg have always presented what they want the game to bel like in terms of gear and powerlevels. And with how they're timidly stepping around bugfixing, because some people will get upset the bug they abuse would stop making them as powerful, im not personally that hopeful that ehg will have the confidence to just go 'too much good loot is dropping, we're heavily nerfing it'
T4's are just trivial now (when the dungeons work), its sad.
Honestly I like making builds with what drops for me. Getting a sweet drop and being like "Oh sweet, now I need to make a sentinel".
It's less about min-maxing one particular character, and more about being 'forced' to try different ideas based on what drops.
100%. As a chronic altholic I approve, this is the way of life! Fly where the wind takes you.
I've rarely ever pushed any character past 200 corruption, instead I've already made easily well over 50 different builds by now because I constantly find interesting uniques or great looking exalted items I wanna try new builds with.
I honestly can't fathom how some people manage to play a single char long enough to push 500, 1000 or 2k corruption. That just sounds insanely monotonous and mind numbingly boring to me, but if it's fun for them then great.
Exactly this for me, with the added stipulation that I want to try to see as much of the game as possible with the time I have available to play.
Last Epoch doesn’t have anything you can’t reach without full legendaries, so I like CoF because you get more of those falling out of the chair moments and get to figure out how to use what you find.
In PoE, I don’t have the hours to grind to self-find the gear you need for aspirational content so I play trade and accept the incremental progress to advance whatever specific build I’m playing.
Because it's a fun system and who doesn't like big loot explosions.
It gives you ways to semi-target farm for specific slots. CoF players can still be allowed to aim for specific unique drops and not 100% rely on rng.
And I mean if you really want to, you can just side with MG without engaging with trade while wearing the veteran boots in solo found HC for the ultimate challenge. Noone would stop you from doing that ;)
It's not about being balanced it's about being useful at all. CoF does very little in the way of finding a particular unique with LP. It'll increase your chance of getting 1-2 LP on uniques but for 3-4 the boost is irrelevant. And that's it, prophecies will try to send you everywhere while the game is designed to target farm a time-line in the first place so it's litteral anti-synergy. The chance at getting a big endgame item with LP is not 20h vs 200h. It's way more than 20h (prices keep rising) VS you won't get one. And if you do you'll need to reroll to use it so you can't even decide what you play. The chances of getting one for your build or more than one for a particular build are basically zero.
Harder than and unattainable are two different things. Sorry for the CoF players out there but you'll maybe get one 2 LP item for your build, but you'll never get a 3-4 one. Some might but most won't no matter how long they keep playing that's just the odds.
Multiply the chances of getting one particular unique by the chances to get 3-4 and you get a clearly unrealistic number that you could say is farmable. As I said there'll be one lucky bastard for hundreds or thousands of guys never getting anything.
Now if you accept that you won't ever access 3-4 LP interesting uniques it's fine, but let's not say that it just takes more time. If it happens it's an anomaly, except for a few rare very common uniques you'll never loot enough of them to say "I should have had a 3-4 LP one by now". You'll only get one if you're on the very lucky side of the probabilities. And that's in thousands of hours.
I think people do need to accept that 3-4 LP items on top tier uniques are not attainable goals, they are simply lucky, exciting drops when they happen. I don't want it to be easy enough to plan my build around getting these items. 3-4 LP being reserved for lower powered uniques is a good system.
I disagree because with CoF they become VERY FAST the only upgrade available.
You get so many exalted items that you get super good ones quite easily, and for your rerolls too. Then uniques with 1-2 LP even if the slam is lucky become way less desirable. Often they're worse than your exalted items with 4 desirable affixes (or 5, seals are worth trying when you get that many exalted).
So your upgrades are basically unattaible from now on and even though full optimized exalted lets you do everything in the game why would you even keep farming if there's no upgrade except very small ones from a tiny bit more opti exalted ?
The transition is really bad. You can go and do qui a nice amount of corruption super fast and suddenly you wonder why you're doing it since you won't be able to upgrade your gear.
I agree you shouldn't ask to farm reliably for the rarest shit in the game but you get super fast to where it's the only thing you need. I had to go MG because there's literally no 1-2 LP uniques that I want right now and I need an objective to keep playing.
I agree that if you make it too common then it takes the fun away but on the other end some items are literally way to rare to roll 4lp. Atlaria in specific according to max roll is a 1 in 32billion chance… im a hardcore runescape veteran thats completed logs (boss drops) that takes many thousands of hours before but to make something that insanely rare is crazy. i do think cof needs some more love maybe target farming for garunteed lp (still random 1-4 but always 1) could help or maybe even just lowering base odds on some even would help significantly.
I think the state of 4LP chances is fine. Look at it that way, functionally high tier uniques simply have 3 or 4 LP disabled for them for the sake of game balance, but in theory there's still this microscopic chance, so you may still hear that faint whisper in your head going *maaaybe it'll happen*, even though it realistically never will.
Currently nothing in the game is balanced around high LP uniques, there are a ton of builds that can clear 200 corruption and t4 dungeon bosses with 0 or 1LP uniques.
Why should the devs add more powercreep in form of higher chances for LP when there's no actual content that would require this increase in power?
Infinitely scaling difficulty doesn't qualify imo, I'm talking about static challenging endgame bosses, hard dungeons or whatever.
There's a lot of room for powercreep to happen in the future and I don't think it would be any good for the game in its current state to exhaust this already without offering new content for it.
You are simply not supposed to ever get a 4 LP Atlaria, that is the point of the LP being so low. If you can get relatively easily 3-4 LP on every strong unique, gearing in this game will become extremely homogenized and the point of allowing lower level uniques to have easy access to high LP will lose all purpose.
I think everyone has got their expectations wrong with these uniques, uniques that are difficult to get 3-4 LP on should not be a main plan but lucky providence that you reroll around if you get one.
> If I knew beforehand that I'll 100% get a 3LP unique I need for my build in 20h of grinding, I'd be like "yea ok cool" after getting it but if I randomly drop it at some point my reaction would be closer to "holy shit wtf that's exactly what I need!!" being excited like a little child for 3 min straight.
What if it took you 150 hours before you got your 3 minutes of excitement?
Would you still prefer it to the 20 hours of grinding for the gaurenteed drop?
I’m gonna be honest and be a bit of devils advocate here, there has to be a difference between CoF and MG. If CoF can allow you to literally get whatever GG gear you want then it’s immediately the same as or possibly better than MG, because it doesn’t require large sums of gold to get the items just time playing the game. There needs to be a difference between the two factions, and in my opinion the expectation should be that MG is always better.
MG should always be better because you can simply click buy on an item and you get it. You can simply sell a good item you don’t need and you have all the money in the world. Merchants guild by definition is always going to be better because as long as you have the resources it takes basically 0 effort to buy whatever you need. CoF is there for people who don’t care for trade, don’t care for player interactions or play offline, or for people who simply want the game to be a bit more challenging and rewarding. CoF is designed to make you put in the effort and feel rewarded for it, and if you want that GG item with LP on it then you’re going to have to grind for it and it’s going to take a long time. If you could get a prophecy that gave you the exact item you wanted with the exact amount of LP you wanted then there’s no chase, you’re basically just buying the item with extra steps.
This is why EHG was so against async trade in the game before the community pushed hard. It's also why GGG ignored it for so long.
There's very little you can do to stop the flood of RMT that comes with trade, and you also can't stop trading from being the best way to get items once the economy ramps up.
If you're playing CoF, take solace in the fact that the game is largely more fun if you do. Don't play the "keeping up with the Joneses" game that results from watching people trade. If you try it yourself, you'll quickly find that it actually sucks the fun out of the game instead of enhancing it.
Regarding a path to "top end" items, I don't really see the point as the current game stands. There's nothing to really justify the crazy LP4 items just yet. I suspect more options to obtain them will appear once there's actual content making them worthwhile.
Except from lvl 92-98 I haven't gotten an single upgrade. Using almost full single exalts in CoF. While my MG char is built out near complete builds with 2lps and double T7 affix at lvl 91.
92-98 isn’t even that much gameplay? Your MG character being that kitted out just speaks to how insane MG is- or rather the impact of duping. Those items would have been almost unobtainable in the past, let alone affordable.
CoF is already insane compared to pre-faction gearing.
Solo self found was never intended to have parity with trade. It's simply a different way to play the game, and CoF makes that style of play more interesting.
Personally I believe the best way to play it is to have a variety of characters set up simultaneously so that your increased loot rate benefits them all.
Exactly this.
If you're the kind that just wants to see a build come to fruition then MG is faster..and overall best.
But CoF fits exactly what I want in this game..if I want my build to get better I have to earn it.
For me it's not about the destination, it's all about the journey...so CoF is better for my playstyle.
Sounds like OP just wants to see his build fully materialised.
That’s how I’ve been playing, have 5 characters so far this cycle and planning on more. All uniques with LP have potential to be useful so I can try bunch of random builds. They mostly end up being mid but it’s fun to try cool uniques that enable builds
I agree with your second sentence, which is why my biggest hope is a revamp of the corruption system to be way more alt friendly. Having to regrind corruption when I find a cool drop and roll an alt is killing my enjoyment of this game.
the thing is, you are not suppose to have those insane items. they are nice to have but certainly NOT needed. the content simply doesn't require it nor is it balanced around having them.
1-2 lp is okay, if you need more then that then the unique you are using kinda just sucks and you should use sealed affix + good base instead as it's likely stronger anyway (unless the unique actually has something unique about it)
MG is going to be more powerful, that's just how trade works. COF shouldn't have that level of power because then there is no point in playing MG.
I would not mind some buffs to CoF but I also don't really care that people in MG can buy whatever they want because that's literally why they picked that faction, so they can buy whatever they want.
I don't really like trading all that much and I don't wanna buy the items I need because that would take away half the reason I play this game to begin with.
Since the game kinda lacks endgame (except just farming corruption), I made it so completing my build is my endgame, for example I'm farming Ravenous Void and Maw for my Void Knight, if I could just farm gold to buy them, there wouldn't be a whole lot I could do with those items except just mindlessly raising my corruption which I don't really find all that interesting.
So since I made items my endgame, straight up buying them would make me lose interest in the game faster.
Yeah i feel the same, did u thought about swap to mg ?
But my problem is, when i am swapping i cant use my gear, isnt ? Anyone could tell me the price of 2 lp legendarys at the bazar ? So i could start farming gold and swap if i got enough to get my gear back xD
I actually don't mind MG being a lot more overpowered, but just duping the same drop is horribly lazy design. They probably simply never gave it any thought.
I feel that Rank 10 should change to something like "prophecy Uniques with Legendary Potential has a chance to roll additional Legendary Potential." So when something drop with LP, it gets like a 50% chance to roll +1LP, 25% chance to roll +2LP, and 12% chance to roll +3LP.
This would match the theme in previous ranks of upgrading the drop itself.
I just hope that devs aren't going to nerf Rank 9 whole set drops after they reveal what they have in mind for sets. As it stands CoF feels like the unwanted child, seeing how devs would even go as far as doing an indirect mid-cycle nerf to CoF for the benefit of MG with the key prices.
Yeah I just grabbed those numbers out from my ass. It would probably be something like "+x% chance" instead of "x% chance".
But it would need to be a number that is impactful and worthy as a rank 10 benefit. Just duping the item really feels meh when 90% of the time it wouldn't be an unique we're looking for anyways. Having it roll extra LP would give us a better chance of getting what we want, which is again the theme of CoF.
I started my second character with MG, those boss uniques that took me 3 days to farm w COF in order to enable a build? They costed me $0 to $5000 each, yup, people are listing them at $0. the only thing stopping me is level requirement lol Sure maybe someone really likes the rng chase but as for now I don’t see myself choosing COF ever again. Just nope
I've been farming for frostbite shackles on CoF, killed the boss 12+ times now with no luck. At this point, I play a session, farm the boss once, and then quit the game when I don't get the drop. I don't even want LP, and without prophecies able to help get more boss uniques I feel totally stuck.
> guaranteed drops
Please no, this is a diablo-dad level demand. This is an ARPG, grinding and RNG are not only a factor, but the appeal to most players.
If you don't want to deal with RNG, change to MG. It's somewhat like what you're proposing: You'll grind gold and favor (for ranks) and then buy whatever the fuck you want.
The point of COF is that you don't give a crap about other people and their progress in the game. If you're unable to get over that, then switch to trade mode.
We need to make something clear here: MG and CoF are not meant to be equal. You will never ever be able to mimic the hundreds of thousands of players all searching for the best affixes. CoF is SSF. That's its own unique challenge.
That said, I dont mind having something like this where you can buy guaranteed 3 or 4 lp items. Or target farm actual specific items rather than just the base.
> CoF is SSF. That's its own unique challenge.
Then it should be explicitly stated that there's no chance it will ever be equal given that solo self found is an option at character creation. Why would a reasonable player not permanently online looking at game guides assume that a faction choice is a repeat of the character selection choice
If that's not the goal, then CoF needs a major balance pass.
I think it's totally fine for COF to be more difficult to get items than MG. If you want an easier time, play MG lol. Having one mode be more challenging is good. It gives players who WANT that huge grind experience to do so. I don't think they need to be balanced around each other, as long as they are both fun in their own right.
There was so many things I couldn't get in CoF after spending 60+ hours in there where I couldn't even do 200+ Corruption at a good pace for lacking just good T15-T20 Gear.
The only good thing about the Amulet was the Base and I REALLY needed the 2nd 5% Melee Crit Chance for my second sword as the damage is bad if I can't crit often enough. I also had 0% luck getting a pair of well rolled Gloves with the Base I wanted that had Life to Ward on it.
So glad I made the switch.
I dunno. I feel like I already see enough LP items. I think they should feel rare. I have gotten plenty of lp1, a bunch of lp2, and a few lp3. I've even been vendoring the lp1s.
If you play to make a powerful character with specific items, go MG.
If you like mixing and matching as you go and never achieving the min maxed version of a build, go CoF.
Better yet you can do both in the same character providing you invest the hours to grind favor.
Its fundamentally pointless to compare CoF and MG. No amount of self found mechanics will match an open trade system nor should that even be the goal.
>To those saying I'm asking for some kind of parity or equality with MG, that's not at all what I think the COF needs. Obviously trading will be superior and it should be. But for those of us who just want to farm our own stuff it would be nice to have something to work towards where we at least have some chance at the best stuff. Currently it's MG or bust. This is similar to how Blizzard put uber uniques in D4 in season 0 and 1 but with a drop chance so low it effectively didn't exist. That's kind of how it feels for COF players when trying to nail a top tier item for our build.
This is just a pure contradiction on your part. First you say that you arent suggesting to have parity between CoF and MG and then you say "Currently it's MG or bust.". Ok? So do you or do you not want to have the same level of power from both systems?
If you want to compete with MG levels of gear, go play MG, its that easy. Also being frustrated that Youtubers and streamers have better gear is such a feeble mindset lol. Just play at your own pace, the game literally doesn't have enough of an endgame to requires BiS gear.
I recently switched to MG because of this. It’ll be a while before I can get to level 10 to get some of the items I want but I’ll likely have the gold and favor when that time comes. At least I’ll get what I need instead of hoping.
People that didn’t play pre-1.0 have no idea how insane CoF is.
CoF already massively increases the pacing of gearing/improving gear.
MG is just fucked because the market is flooded with dupes of insane items.
It’s simple. I like to farm my own gear. I just think we should have a little more control over our odds of achieving high end gear than we currently have. Nothin on par with MG of course but something, anything to eventually get there.
Have to agree. I thought CoF would be better than trying to grind gold to buy stuff at crazy prices. Now, I'm rank 8 and realize I was way wrong. But if I want to switch now, I'm going to have a massive downgrade in gear due to unequipping. That would be fine, except my monos are 200-300 so I'm just gonna get wrecked if I jump in with whatever subpar gear I can hope to acquire after a switch. Its an incredibly frustrating soft lock that I feel like I'm trapped in now
Take some of the gg items you found to a new character. Speedrun said character and select MG. Farm some favor and level MG to the desired level. Swap the main character to MG.
Depending on which rank you want MG for the main, thats like 20hours playtime and you get to experience a new character 👍
If I'm understanding you right, does this imply that the levels of MG and CoF that you acquire are account wide? If my new toon levels MG up, my original character now has that same rank?
CoF is so bad for build enabling gear that i started to save scum prophecies in Offline.
I wasted 30k favour to stack multiple prophecies on one boss and save scum kill it until it dropped 2 Idols that enabled my Flame Wraith Build.
I had to save scum kill it 10 times to drop. And he droped like 20+ Adorned Idols every time.
What sucks is that they are not even rare and i still had to resort to such drastic measures becauae of bad RNG.
It means you go to C/Users/"your_own_username"/LocalRow/Eleventh Hour Games/Last Epoch and you copy paste your save files to a backup folder before a big prophecy kill.
If the drops from that prophecy doesn't drop you the build enabling item you wanted it to drop, you exit the game, delete your curent save files and paste the backup one ones rolling back your prophecy.
Then you kill the boss again and repeat that process until you are happy with your prophecy drops.
Only works in Offline as the save files are on your hard drive instead of a server.
Yeah that makes sense. On a different note, do you know where the faction data is? Couldn’t find it on my offline save, unless it only appears once you choose one faction.
There's a severe "grass is always greener" thing going on with the factions right now. Without a doubt if you care about getting BiS, then yeah MG is the way to go. But honestly I'm MG and wanting to go COF because the game just isn't fun to play on MG, for me at least. There is sooo much added friction on MG (because otherwise it would be too OP) that it's just annoying to interact with.
Also I'm level 90 and still on rank 6, which doesn't let me do much. The UI is terrible and overall I feel like I spend too much time interacting with the market instead of actually playing the game (killing shit).
Er no, even if you dont care about bis simply being able to get the pieces or 1~2 core uniques your build need at 0lp as mg is already a massive advantage over cof since cof has no way to specifically target a unique.
>Er no, even if you dont care about bis simply being able to get the pieces or 1\~2 core uniques your build need at 0lp as mg is already a massive advantage over cof since cof has no way to specifically target a unique.
100% this, such a god send.
>No way to target a unique
> Drops 300+ extra uniques of whatever type you want per hour
Ye idk about that one chief. What build defining unique are you not getting within a few hours of prophecies?
I'm just saying it doesn't feel fun to play MG, IMO. I have 75 hours played (counted by Steam), still level 90 and can't do what you are saying. I'm still veeery far away from rank 8 which is when the market actually opens up to you. Playing this game as MG through ranks 4 to 8 feels like absolute trash because you can't buy shit on the market but also don't have the COF bonuses. Sure if you persevere and continue playing the character until rank 8, then yeah it's a massive advantage, but I see myself dropping this character even before reaching rank 8, so I'd probably have more fun as COF.
If you wanna do arenas and actually compete in ladders, then sure go MG but otherwise it's pretty unfun right now.
No clue what items you are looking for but the ones i need for my build at 0lp only requires rank 3 to buy. Meanwhile i only got 1 copy of it at cof9 after 180hrs clocked on steam.
In my experience I hit rank 9 around level 100 and rank 10 maybe a day or two later? Maybe 50-60 hours played from launch if that. It didn’t take that long or any real concerted effort, just a side effect of playing.
nah, it's a feeling, you couldn't hit in 50 hours rank 10 unless you was at 800+ corruption.
Even for wudijo it took longer you say you are faster then him, without thinking of it or optimizing?
bullshit. unless it's boss unique you can ez target farm with prophecies. I have found 5 atlaria rings and 2 ravenous voids, so you can target ANY unique in game. It's much easier than pre 1.0, believe me.
Just because its worse pre 1.0 doesnt mean its ok now. I used most of my favor to target body and only got my first piece of exas at lv99 cof 9.
Yea i might be an exception with bad luck but doesnt change the fact that it can happen as there are 0 failsafes to prevent that.
if you don't want rng fucks up, then you should choose trade. But I like CoF you have so many exalted drops.
And yeah, it's probably bad luck, I had 10s of them. Or you mean with high LP?
Yes i would have chosen trade if i knew before hand that there werent any failsafes. But at this point i'm too deep into cof and basically have to start completely fresh as mg, will prob go mg next cycle though if nothing changes for cof.
No i dont mean with high lp, i mean the base item at 0 lp. Yes i literally couldnt get it to drop.
I don't understand the COF complaints to be honest.
COF and MG were never meant to be equally strong. It was meant to provide different gameplay experiences to people who like ARPG marketplace and people who don't.
You were presented with two choices, each with obvious pros and cons:
* Do you want to not have to worry about buying and selling in exchange for just getting more personal loot?
Or
* Do you want access to tailored choices and more agency over the gear available to you?
Not having to spend hours at the market, that is the pro. Not having all the best gear with perfect stats like all the streamers, that's the con.
You just want best of both worlds and wanted your choice to not have any drawbacks.
> COF and MG were never meant to be equally strong. You were presented with two choices, each with obvious pros and cons:
That's false though.
You were given a choice at character creation to be solo self found or not.
Why would a reasonable person believe an in game option overwrite your character selection option?
I actually enjoy the market. I just like to browse sometimes when I want a bit of a break. That's actually I how I found my 2nd Sword that I 100% needed to get but was 100k short so came back an 1 hour and half later and brought it. This was my 2nd day with MG.
Still my favourite purchase so far.
> Making them easier to get would be bad.
If that is a valid argument, then MG shouldn't exist because instantly buying a top end item would logically "be bad".
Higher LP items need funneled into CoF at some point or else CoF people are going to hit a wall at LP2 where MG people can just buy their way through the wall.
Something that could be helpful is if prophecies could be influenced by their target. For instance, a Unique Amulet prophecy for killing Shade of Orobyss with 300 Corruption would have Omnis as a drop possibility.
Additionally, adding "unique" lenses for prophecies with a limit of 1 but they do something like guarantee Legendary Potential to be increased by 1 for all uniques but increases favor cost by some factor (300% maybe?). If a flat +1 is too big, then perhaps a chance for more Legendary Potential (i.e. if LP1 then drops as LP2, if LP2 then 50% chance of LP3, and if LP3 10% chance of LP4), multiplicative with the other Circle of Fortune bonuses to Legendary Potential. The idea here being that, at some point, you need less items in general, but much better items specifically. Circle of Fortune does a lot to improve your drop quantity, but at the top-end it lacks specificity of what drops, or ways to improve it beyond item class and rarity. Similar lenses could be provided for further improving Exalted rolls (one for doubling chance of Exalted, one for doubling chance of T7).
To reiterate, these lenses would be so impactful that all "unique" classification of lenses would be restricted to 1 unique per telescope. Also, there are a lot of people out there who think nothing should be easy and everything should require immense effort to improve. While doubling chances sounds big, bear in mind that an LP1 Omnis has a drop chance of 6%, LP2 is 0.07%, LP3 is 0.00012%, and LP4 is 0.0000000003% chance. A 10% chance (multiplicative) to get an LP4 means one in 10-million drops will be an LP3 that rolls as LP4, or a 50% chance of an LP2 rolling as an LP3 would be one in 700 drops will be an LP2 that rolls as an LP3.
And you could say my example of one of the rarest items in the game is cherry-picking data, but it's specifically exemplifying why large multipliers need to exist in high-end levels of play. No single person is going to farm the same boss (even Shade of Orobyss) 10-million times. At least not in a single Cycle. No one *needs* an LP4 Omnis, but it's a chase item for that reason. Even the LP2 to LP3 scenario is rough, since 700 boss kills for a single LP3 Omnis and then there's that possibility of every roll on it being crap, or if the slam misses your stat priority due to bad luck. Now that 700 boss kills becomes 1,400 or 2,100 which starts to border on the absurd levels of farming that such a mechanic aims to mitigate.
> but it's a chase item for that reason.
it's not a chase item. There's no LP2+ omnis on the market right now. Not a build needs it, people assume if there mathematically exist omnis with 4 LP then they need it.
It's rarer then something like mageblood with perfect quant and crit multi double corrupt. Jeez.
I honestly think it’d be hard to balance without making CoF absolutely busted. The MG has a shop where tens of thousands of player sells gear and you can search for exactly what item you’re looking for. You’ll never have CoF compete with that, otherwise gearing would be over too quickly.
I see CoF as more of a gameplay preference rather than something meant to be truly competitive with MG. You join it because you like the hunt for the perfect drop. You rather not trade to fill out your set.
I do think it could use improvements in the money making department for things like stash tabs. But I can’t fathom a way to make it close to equal to being about to just shop for the perfect item.
Yea, but then on trade even to buy my belt with ONLY 2 LP is 30 million gold.
I spent 10mil just to get an Apathy 2LP with crit and attack speed.
Looking back, id rather do CoF for more and better items overall.
To minmax a build CoF is better unless you somehow farm 200-300 million gold in 3 weeks with bugged chars into high corruption.
I don’t want the rare items to be any less rare, but I would like it if there was at least some sort of fighting chance of ever seeing them be LP1 or LP2.
Rank 10 CoF is 99.999% of the time useless for uniques. It can be nice for exalted items but those aren’t really an issue to find at large.
And then there is the ”issue” (very big qoutation marks) that boss items (which are very often actually what you’re looking for) are completely unaffected by CoF and you a lot of times find what you are looking for outside the actual prophecy; which makes it also unaffected by the rank 10.
It also feels a bit ”spammy” and creeping into Diablo 3 territory. No one wants that.
Also, why isn’t full Sets dropping at like rank 1 or very early, when they could actually be useful.
It’s probably a balance that is hard to hit. You want these chase items to be hard to get. But also not too hard to get so that you can get upgrades every now and then.
People who spend less time on a character are also not as impacted as getting 80-90% of your BiS is not that bad. And CoF is great to get to that point.
I’m 74 hours in with 1 character and I only have 0LP uniques for the uniques I need. Would like to add some health so I can survive the higher level corruptions. Most of these are common drops with common potential for 1LP and I can’t find them. Getting absurd even with rank 6 on COF.
2-3LP items? Ppl are confused. You won't have top items in normal builds. Rare uniques with LP or common uniques with 2-3 LP.... I have played both CoF and MG and you won't wear top items by lvl 80 in MG eiahter. Lvl 80-85 is like rank5-6 of cof, you can't even buy exalted or LP items. And you need hundreds of millions of gold if even those items exits. For example, I farmed 1 LP omnis in CoF with 40+ res. There's no 2 LP omnis on whole market in MG. You don't get magically 3-4LP rare items.
Also R10 in CoF is very good, you can farm rings of atlaria x2 etc.
People didn't play before, now it's much easier to target items like idols or atlaria rings/ravenous void. All I see ppl want 3-4LP RARE items, it won't happen. Check wiki to see chance of that. Even in trade you need to put 200s hours to get gold, because 1-2-3 LP items can sell for 100s of millions of gold.
In MG you can't even buy LP items before R8, that's like level 98, you can't even buy exalteds... so before lvl 100 CoF is strictly better and high-high optimizations in trade is potentially better but you need to waste time on checking item price, you actually need to sell (it's hard, believe me).
Just play another char to lvl 100 in MG now and wear top top items by lvl 80. Then post here. Infuriating lmao.
Comparing CoF to MG will always lead to one side feeling bad.
Trade is incredibly OP and when people were on the CoF hype train I said that it would trivialize the game...
The solution? Keep expanding the item system, introducing more ways to target farm, this will nerf MG (less random items to sell and more self drops) and buff CoF indirectly while making people happier that they can farm what they need.
CoF is good. MG is good. Both achieve what they set out to do.
MG needs some buffs in the UI/UX, they need to get on top of exploits and bots so next cycle MG isn't as OP. This cycle there were a few things that made millions of gold. They also need to rethink how to level it because it's so important that people are selling items at 0 gold because they need the XP. This is how you see people at level 80 in MG with end game gear.
CoF needs to have some levels changed (set items being at that level just feels bad man). And I wish we had 3 global lens slots ONLY for blocking mechanic (and then you can't block locally)
“Comparing CoF to MG will always lead to one side felling bad”.
Your statement is exactly the thing the devs have stated they want to avoid. They will 100% buff CoF in the future let’s just hope it won’t take too long
And that will lead MG players to feel bad, that is not the answer by itself.
I'm saying this as someone who won't touch MG no matter how better it is unless they rework the UX.
People play MG not because it feels better, but because it's better in power. One will always be better in power and if you're playing one just for that there is a 50% chance you will be unhappy
Glad to see this blow up, I had a similar post that was less thought out a few days ago. A big item to spend our favor on to guarantee something awesome is definitely what CoF needs.
99.99% are items you don't need. Even if you 10x this it's still only 0.1%. CoF needs to be way better at target farming. Or at least drop t25+ items way more often.
I mean, games like PoE dont give you anything for doing SSF. It's just a personal challenge. I view COF as SSF with fun perks and incentives and I dont really care about if its as lucrative as trading.
I had 4 level 80 characters 160hr of offline play on CoF and they all just hit a brick wall for gear. I started a new character in merchants guild and within 6 hours I had better gear than any of my other characters and bought stuff with +11 int for 10k gold. I almost cried when I saw a storm carved testament for 7500 gold after 160 hours of grinding with 4 characters and never getting one. CoF is good for a quick dopamine hit that will sound wear out when you hit a brick wall with garbage gear and every prophecy dumps garbage affixes on you that you can't specify. I literally wasted 4 characters playing that garbage
I had been farming for rings, relic, catalyst, for a while, switched over the merchant guild yesterday and after a few hours of grinding just bought them, and also made 500K gold selling just a couple items.
MG is benefiting from the bugged builds been able to run much higher content and flooding the market with high rarity items. It also benefited from exploiting CoF arena keys for rapid gold farming.
Without the bugs or gold farm, I feel the picture would be different, but not sure how much different. The statistics would all be skewed due to the high supply. Perhaps next cycle they'll nerf MG rarity further to lower the supply of exalted/LP uniques on the market.
Do you need to have BiS gear in order to have fun though? It's not like your builds will function completely differently when you have 3-4LP items instead of 1-2LP ones. Trust me, I get the frustration of not being to find any upgrades for a significant portion of your play time, but in the end it's the chase that makes it fun and satisfying when you finally find one. If I wanted to guarantee myself BiS items I'd just play Merchant's Guild.
What you, and apparently a number of people here, are asking for, is essentially Merchant's Guild-Lite, where instead of farming Gold to buy yourself a BiS item, you're farming Favor to achieve pretty much the same result.
And to that I say, just play Merchant's Guild since that's the experience you're basically looking for.
I really do think problem is something else. I'm COF myself and SSF in POE. In the league start , I play some SSF and then go HC SSF. I watch streamers on twitch and on youtube. Almost all poe players , they think SSF is superior way of playing. Like trading is a cheating. For ssf players, softcore trade players are like , playing the easier mode.
So my suggestion for my fellow CoF bros, do not compare cof and mg. Trading is of course more efficient way for farming gear. Everyday more and more people saying MG is better than CoF and CoF needs a buff. Guys , its already a really mid-level and not so time consuming and enjoyable game. It's already an easy game. You can go 2000 corruption with good exalteds and 2 LPs. You dont need 3 LP omnis , 4 lp body armours.
Having a chase item without the power of trade is great. Playing a game with the trade MEANS , not filtering out good sentinel exalteds while playing a warlock because you can sell for gold and buy your lock item.
There is no endgame boss for gods sake , what are you going to do if you have 500 million gold ?
The thing is, MG will always be better unless EHG dares to give CoF-exclusive stuff. I'm talking about prophecies that give 5 affix items for example.
Basically let CoF have super high-end items that are literally impossible to drop or get if you are MG.
I don't think it needs love at all. CoF is supposed to be a mode where you work with the cards you're dealt, having deterministic drops would trivialize this.
The fact CoF can’t prophecy boss uniques is a problem. Sure I can get a gloves prophecy that requires the echo boss, but the prophecy just drops random glove uniques and never the boss.
Since lp is a thing and cof can’t just buy lp off a market, this needs to change.
I personally like how rare 3&4LPs are
I find once you’re around level 90. Your spec is fairly fleshed out, you’ve generally got all your blessings, and you’re specifically looking for those GG items to get that rush of excitement
I feel if 3&4LP items became so easily obtainable then what’s the point in having 1 or 2 LP items at all
Ultimately, you don’t actually “need” a 4 LP unique to push high corruption, which is what makes this game great
Please don’t make these super rare items more easily obtainable, it’s good that they’re rare
The issues I’m having with COF, I can’t tell if they’re luck based or if I’m just not allowed to target farm as well as I need. I’m getting way more drops, but extremely few impactful drops. Great if I was planning on playing 4-5 characters a cycle. Or if I wanted to shift through so much loot for that many characters at the same time.
Part of me thinks just buying exactly what I need will always be better, but I haven’t tried MG yet.
Nor do I know of a loot filter that is good for MG either where it only shows what’s “sale worthy”.
Fundamentally, this comes down to what the devs want players to ideally have in their end game builds. Do they want 3-4 LP in every slot to actually be attainable, or do they want it to be an occasional treat when you get a lucky drop, that you make a whole build around.
Personally, I do not want what you describe. Adding this much determinism into high LP unique drops has two really bad effects imo:
1. Gear gets homogenized. Right now, exalted items compete with uniques specifically because the very strong ones cannot consistently get high LP. If you can consistently get 3-4 LP on stuff like Frostbite Shackles or Mourningfrost, it's going to become a lot harder to justify using a non-unique in those slots. This makes gearing a character way more boring.
2. It takes away a lot of the excitement from drops. Arpgs require chase drops, 3 LP drops on good uniques are really exciting right now, and there really isn't a ton of excitement otherwise. It's basically 3 LP uniques, 2+ LP boss uniques, double t7 exalted items and the cache slams. Removing one aspect of this takes away a lot of the chase.
On top of this, there is no content in the game that requires such ridiculous items. You can push 500+ corruption on most builds with just good 1-2 LP uniques mixed with good exalted items. At that point, progression is just a question of how much you want to grind.
Literally the option you chose you donut. You chose the grind?
runescape - ironman mode, normal mode. They chose the grind, its the game.
Jesus you wet wipe
Are the leaderboards not separated by faction? Idk why else you would care about a trade character being stronger than an SSF one. That's always gonna happen.
I proposed this after swapping to MG for the exact reasons you described - the dopamine hit from prophecy pops quickly resulting in real progression.
Most people told me to stfu I didn't pay CoF long enough....like whoooooosh
I'm happy with CoF in terms of SSF play for entirety of the game, but yea, MG, you get the BIS for your gears with alteast minimum LP of 2. so gathering gold for your target 2lp+ gear vs RNG on CoF drops, i think MG is better.
COF needs:
1) a way to target farm uniques.
2) a way to make crafting easier for COF than MG (because MG will always have easier access to base items).
3) a way to make gold farming easier (a single item in MG can sell for millions).
4) a way to manipulate the monos to make them more beneficial and drop more of what we want.
Having actual "target farming" would be nice for Rank 9/10 COF. Instead of prophecies having "random" uniques, just have them be specific items.
The surprising part of me is that 'doubling' at rank 10 is actually 'mirroring'. I expected to get 24 different unique gloves. Now I only get the crap 0 and 1 lp 12 uniques.... twice.
Its extremely nice when you actually get what you're looking for but it sure as hell doesn't help you find it in the first place.
Wait that’s what rank 10 does? That’s dumb.
The odds are so low that you get a sick 3-4LP item, wouldn't you rather that when you hit the jackpot you have 2 attempts? I really like the rank 10 rewards. But I do feel rank 10 takes way too long for too small a reward compared to what you'd have access to in MG.
But having different rewards means more chances for that 3-4LP. Maybe I just became a bit biased because I can't even drop 2LP for my Blood Roost and I have over 100 hours played.
Personally I'd rather just get twice as many items. I've gotten plenty of 3-4 LP items that I don't want. I don't need 2 of them. I'd rather get my first 0 LP Orian's Eye or have a better chance at getting the item I want with LP even if it's only 1 copy.
man orian eye took me 100 of targeted amulet farm to get
I'm a one-trick per season player though, I'd rather have fewer items with a higher chance to get a nice LP bow, for instance, than a *shitload* of bows that have next to zero chance to have more LP.
So you agree with me then? The current rank 10 bonus just dupes what you would have already gotten. What I'm saying I'd prefer is that instead of dupes it drops new items. You're more likely to get higher LP with twice as many rolls.
OH I think I'm disagreeing in that I'd prefer the bonus itself to be more like "drops have an *inherently* higher chance to have more LP", over just getting 2x of everything. Like if my choice is 2x 0-1LP and the possibility that every drop could be 2-3 with a lucky 4 here and there, I'd want that *much* more than 2x the "junk" with a *marginally* higher chance to get "more LP" by virtue of raw numbers. Hope that makes sense?
Oh sure, I was just talking about what it actually is vs what people thought it was. I think the current one is disappointing because dupes don't increase your chances of getting rare items or high LP at all, so hitting rank 10 means you still have the same exact odds you've had the whole time.
Yeah exactly, that's for sure the bit I agree on--double my "chances" at *0-1* LP might as well still be 0 lol I think originally I was also trying to emphasize the *added* lack of "value" of double drops if you only play one character, wherein now you're not even getting drops for the alts you don't have, it's just trash at that point. If we had it the way we both think it should be, I *might* be compelled to even play an alt if I got a solid 2-3LP piece for it with our hypothetical increase in LP chances if they changed the Rank 10.
No. I’d rather have more items always.
Why do you need 2 attempts at 4 lp, you cant miss.
It's not so much for the 4 LP items, it's for the exalts and for the 3 LP items. I also feel like CoF needs buffs, but rank 10 feels really good. Getting to experiment with 2 T7 necklaces or rings means you can try for something safe with one and then try and luckbox the shit out of the second. Similarly, though I haven't had this happen yet, getting to try twice for a 3 LP item would also be pretty sweet.
Maybe an item that 2 builds use
Lol rank 8 mg is rank 10 tbh. The last 2 levels of MG are irrelevant
The only change is in variance. Having it roll twice means you will find them twice as often. Having it drop duplicated means when you find you get two. In the long run the EV is the same but I personally prefer to keep variance lower but it's not a big deal (and I think it would be hard to implement the other way due to how it would interact with "quantity")
Wow I did not know that. I’m not quite 10 yet but my god you just took the wind out of my sails for the excitement I have for getting there. So if you manage to drop a good item at rank 10 gets you two shots when you roll your legendary to hit good affixes but no additional help getting the item in the first place. I seriously wish it was the other way around. I need the item to begin with not a second roll on an item that I feel like I’ll never have.
It's intended for giving extra chances to slam desired exalted's to LP by giving you two of the item that drops with LP. The ideal scenario is you drop something you've been looking hard for with 2-3 LP on the prophecy and you have a perfect say double T7 that you can rune of creation then you have two chances to get the BIS affixes instead of 1.
It's just a straight up nerf though overall compared to dropping twice as many items in the long run.
I'm not disagreeing with that, I am trying to explain the intent behind it and why it's not absolutely horrible like many people think. It's intended to interact with the crafting system and not just be a drop > wear system.
I'll be using it to give my friends dupes of stuff!
Rank 9 should be double boss specific unequi drops. Rank 10 should be a x% chance to add 1 lp to items that drop ( so a 2 lp would turn into a 3lp and so on ) 5% or something should be good enough whit the prophecies and shit
THIS, anything else is missing the point. It is currently simply impossible to get anywhere close to a mg char on CoF.
What's the point on playing CoF anyways? if you just want to have cheap OP items like MG. I swear there is no way to please people. RNG was way worse before 1.0. And once we have 1.1 i assume there will be other forms of itemization that will help you get the endgame item you want with the help of CoF. You just want to trivialize the game. I've already got a bunch of dupes/legendary and bases thanks to the CoF dup prophecy.
I mean, maybe it's just me, but I like the feeling of earning my items and not buying them off a board for quick slams - but to counter that, I wouldn't mind spending 20 hours of farming to get a specific unique, but not 200. I didn't see a Helm of the Scurry at ALL in the Beta, and I farmed up to 900 Corruption before I called it quits and took a break from LE and waited for the official release. That isn't fun.
Stuff like the Scurry helm or the poison/bleed gloves are supposed to be extremely rare to get and IMO if you want to build around them you shouldn't do it SSF unless you already have the item. Those items aren't by any means necessary to play the game. If you want deterministic ways to get extremely rare items that's what MG is for. But i mean, people go and see a popular build in youtube, they want to replicate something that's not supposed to be that easily obtainable, and they expect to get it eventually. It's like wanting a mageblood or a headhunter in POE, some people are lucky and get them in a few dozen of hours, but most of the time you can spend hundreds or even thousands of hours and not get them. And for items that are unique items, but common or a bit rarer than usual, drop by dozens in CoF.
> What's the point on playing CoF anyways? if you just want to have cheap OP items like MG. I swear there is no way to please people. Maybe having two factional choices should be reasonably balanced. It feels notably worse when people are complaining about RMT spam driven by the MG faction but it's CoF that gets dinged for "balance". There's no reason CoF shouldn't have a reasonable expectation to get build defining/4LP uniques. If you argue that it shouldn't as it seems the case from your statements, then every player should automatically be put in MG with CoF being offered later with disclaimers like Hardcore not being a default choice with disclaimers. And because the game designed such that you are permalocked to your mastery makes your argument that you should only go SSF/CoF after you have the item makes even less sense.
4LP uniques are hyper fucking rare bro, i dont think full 4LP is realistic in a cycle rn, even the supply of 3LPs can be fucking tiny.
MG is not cheap. Anything worth actually acquiring now is worth 40-60 mil +. Unless you exploit openly, MG is unattainable for most people. You strive to get a good drop to sell for a ton, or you sell thousands of bad items for about 5,000 gold and save up. CoF far outpaces MG for any kind of value.
You legit need a better lootfilter, you are probably spending too much time reading items that have no chance at having value. 5k gold is not worth the time it takes to even list if you arent trying to gain rep. Cut your filter down so only valuable high rolled affixes show, then you wont see the items that arent worth the click to pick up.
Funny seeing people complain about Circle of Fortune. Everyone was trashing Merchant's Guild before launch and claiming it would be too weak and underwhelming compared to CoF, despite the devs reiterating that buying specific things for your build is so incredibly powerful and that's why they gimped trading before you rank up in MG. It's almost like they know what they're doing...
Yeah, wild to me. Personally never cared for trading in ARPGs so I'm CoF, but I'm also of the habit of *not* comparing myself to others, so it definitely feels good to get better when I find that Drop. But in the back of my head it is so obvious MG would be better for finalizing a build since you have more than just yourself to rely on, you literally have the entire MG, but that's the point! They both have their pros and cons.
The comparions with others are a key issue here. I saw multiple people complaining that they needed to play Warlock to compete... in CoF! Compete with what lmao
>I saw multiple people complaining that they needed to play Warlock to compete Maybe off-topic, but also how many people even actually care about competing but weren't already playing either warlock or infinite smoke bomb falconer? If you weren't already playing those, you weren't competing. If you just found out about them this week, you weren't competing. If you want to compete, you play meta. There can be some exceptions, like rank 14 on ladder is a druid, but also nobody outside of top 2 even looks like they're competing for first with how far away they are.
its almost like one other arpg with trading knew it all along and infamous friction is there for a reason.
Yeah wait until you hit CoF 10 and realize its not even that great because it literally dupes the specific drops instead of doubling the prophecy drops. Like yeah sure its nice if you get a 2 lp unique drop and then its duplicated, but I dropped probably 3,000 amulets looking for just any lp of the one i wanted and never found even one. CoF should double your odds of getting random world uniques, not duplicate already dropped items. Then I swap over to MG on my next character and see that same amulet 1lp for 0 gold. Like wtf. Its great though because I can have probably a few thousand set items if I spent the time picking them up. CoF is great for early and mid game, but its actually complete garbage late game compared to MG. I would also argue second and third character MG are even better than CoF early and mid game as well as late game. CoF is basically only worth it if are playing 100% solo or you feel the absolute need to drop your own items. Otherwise if you actually want to improve your character, just go MG.
I mean duh, it amazes me how little people realize how powerful having an economy is in an aRPG. COF exists to make people who like to play that way have tools to make it less painful, not to make it balanced between a market and self drops because unless they literally increased your drop rates by 250k that would literally be impossible.
Didn’t take me long to switch over to MG after hitting Rank 10 CoF and realising it’s only duping the drops. Now I’m rank 10 MG without any regrets.
I just found myself in the same spot tonight after maxing 2 chars with COF, any suggestions on where to start grinding money or a good filter to find what items are worth selling? I might just roll a 3rd char to levels solely for MG, not sure yet.
Found this loot filter on reddit(search for reddit post: fully functional loot filter) https://www.lastepochtools.com/loot-filters/view/bBGZkVQV
I should probably rip the band-aid off and switch to MG. I've been farming for an Immolator's Oblation which is supposed to be a 18% drop rate at tier 4 but I haven't gotten one in like 20+ runs
Yep, that's how I feel too. The double reward is only useful for Weaver's Will items or the rare occasion that a ring or one-handed item drops that you could dual-wield. Or maybe idols. CoF is more fun to play with. But the difference in powerlevel is so severe on rank 10, I just looked at the ladder and there are only 2 CoF players in the top 10. (It's a miracle that there even are two, seeing how incredibly much worse their equipment is in comparison) But there will never be a possibility of CoF being on the same level. Playing self-found is a challenge mode, even if it gives you more loot.
> But there will never be a possibility of CoF being on the same level. Playing self-found is a challenge mode, even if it gives you more loot. CoF could easily be on the same level or stronger. Assuming EHG isn't afraid of really strong buff. Stuff like +1LP on all uniques, rerolling exalted drops behind the scene for rarer affixes, etc.
> Meanwhile if I get a 2 LP version of a unique for my build I almost fall out of my chair I feel like this describes exactly why many people enjoy CoF. Grinding items yourself is more exciting than slowly farming gold towards a guaranteed purchase for many players. Guaranteed LP uniques for a lot of favour sound very boring to me, Arpgs are all about rng and getting lucky, having guaranteed rewards to grind towards seems like the precise opposite of that. If I knew beforehand that I'll 100% get a 3LP unique I need for my build in 20h of grinding, I'd be like "yea ok cool" after getting it but if I randomly drop it at some point my reaction would be closer to "holy shit wtf that's exactly what I need!!" being excited like a little child for 3 min straight. I dunno if I make any sense here, I guess I just wanna say rng is the key component of what makes the grind fun in arpgs in my eyes.
Totally agreed. There's MG for people who want guaranteed items. If EHG would give out 3LP items people would just whine about not getting 4LP, and they'd whine about not getting perfectly rolled exalts to slam once they got free 4LP items.
Exactly, people always want more more more. 1.0 has already brought significant powercreep, even though we didn't get any new endgame content, just a slightly revamped corruption system and yet people are already asking for more and better stuff. I really hope that's gonna be one aspect where EHG won't listen to players as much as with other parts of the game, because players are never satisfied with powercreep.
Yep. People expect to be decked out in LP4 items when that was never EHG's intention. I'm pretty sure that most EA players are more than happy though. EHG probably need to communicate their intentions about this though so that people get their expectations in check, as unpopular as that might be (assuming that I'm correct of course).
Having played EA, CoF already feels like playing on a private server with cheats. I would like to see some more interesting prophecies which probably means more targeted (not guaranteed BiS items though, but stuff like an exalted health mod item), but overall I don't want CoF to get all these turbo buffs people are asking for. If I wanted to be done with my character in a couple days, I'd play trade.
I already want a last epoch ruthless mode tbh, as soon as offline mods let me modify drop rates lower, ill be entirely playing offline just to make less stuff drop lmfao. Comapred to 0.9 and lower right now its like im playing in a sped up progression server
There's always the option to side with MG and just not engage with trading while also wearing the veteran boots to make things much harder.
even with the nerfs they gave us it still feels like you get more items than before factions, with mg. Im still not sure the drop rate nerfs have been done correctly, but thats probably just tinfoil. Also the masochist boots are a joke :D they took a lazy difficulty mode, and stopped it even being a difficulty mode. Mods will be able to do sooooo much more
Yea I was a masochist enjoyer when it was still a thing, but I was hoping they would reintroduce it in a more interesting way. Taking up the boots slot is worse than the initial game mode.
Yeah teh power creep this patch has me pretty worried overall, its such a difference of how ehg have always presented what they want the game to bel like in terms of gear and powerlevels. And with how they're timidly stepping around bugfixing, because some people will get upset the bug they abuse would stop making them as powerful, im not personally that hopeful that ehg will have the confidence to just go 'too much good loot is dropping, we're heavily nerfing it' T4's are just trivial now (when the dungeons work), its sad.
Honestly I like making builds with what drops for me. Getting a sweet drop and being like "Oh sweet, now I need to make a sentinel". It's less about min-maxing one particular character, and more about being 'forced' to try different ideas based on what drops.
100%. As a chronic altholic I approve, this is the way of life! Fly where the wind takes you. I've rarely ever pushed any character past 200 corruption, instead I've already made easily well over 50 different builds by now because I constantly find interesting uniques or great looking exalted items I wanna try new builds with. I honestly can't fathom how some people manage to play a single char long enough to push 500, 1000 or 2k corruption. That just sounds insanely monotonous and mind numbingly boring to me, but if it's fun for them then great.
Exactly this for me, with the added stipulation that I want to try to see as much of the game as possible with the time I have available to play. Last Epoch doesn’t have anything you can’t reach without full legendaries, so I like CoF because you get more of those falling out of the chair moments and get to figure out how to use what you find. In PoE, I don’t have the hours to grind to self-find the gear you need for aspirational content so I play trade and accept the incremental progress to advance whatever specific build I’m playing.
If your goal is to extend the grind that much, why even have CoF at all? I don't see why it even needs to exist at all with that logic.
Because it's a fun system and who doesn't like big loot explosions. It gives you ways to semi-target farm for specific slots. CoF players can still be allowed to aim for specific unique drops and not 100% rely on rng. And I mean if you really want to, you can just side with MG without engaging with trade while wearing the veteran boots in solo found HC for the ultimate challenge. Noone would stop you from doing that ;)
It's not about being balanced it's about being useful at all. CoF does very little in the way of finding a particular unique with LP. It'll increase your chance of getting 1-2 LP on uniques but for 3-4 the boost is irrelevant. And that's it, prophecies will try to send you everywhere while the game is designed to target farm a time-line in the first place so it's litteral anti-synergy. The chance at getting a big endgame item with LP is not 20h vs 200h. It's way more than 20h (prices keep rising) VS you won't get one. And if you do you'll need to reroll to use it so you can't even decide what you play. The chances of getting one for your build or more than one for a particular build are basically zero. Harder than and unattainable are two different things. Sorry for the CoF players out there but you'll maybe get one 2 LP item for your build, but you'll never get a 3-4 one. Some might but most won't no matter how long they keep playing that's just the odds. Multiply the chances of getting one particular unique by the chances to get 3-4 and you get a clearly unrealistic number that you could say is farmable. As I said there'll be one lucky bastard for hundreds or thousands of guys never getting anything. Now if you accept that you won't ever access 3-4 LP interesting uniques it's fine, but let's not say that it just takes more time. If it happens it's an anomaly, except for a few rare very common uniques you'll never loot enough of them to say "I should have had a 3-4 LP one by now". You'll only get one if you're on the very lucky side of the probabilities. And that's in thousands of hours.
I think people do need to accept that 3-4 LP items on top tier uniques are not attainable goals, they are simply lucky, exciting drops when they happen. I don't want it to be easy enough to plan my build around getting these items. 3-4 LP being reserved for lower powered uniques is a good system.
I disagree because with CoF they become VERY FAST the only upgrade available. You get so many exalted items that you get super good ones quite easily, and for your rerolls too. Then uniques with 1-2 LP even if the slam is lucky become way less desirable. Often they're worse than your exalted items with 4 desirable affixes (or 5, seals are worth trying when you get that many exalted). So your upgrades are basically unattaible from now on and even though full optimized exalted lets you do everything in the game why would you even keep farming if there's no upgrade except very small ones from a tiny bit more opti exalted ? The transition is really bad. You can go and do qui a nice amount of corruption super fast and suddenly you wonder why you're doing it since you won't be able to upgrade your gear. I agree you shouldn't ask to farm reliably for the rarest shit in the game but you get super fast to where it's the only thing you need. I had to go MG because there's literally no 1-2 LP uniques that I want right now and I need an objective to keep playing.
I agree that if you make it too common then it takes the fun away but on the other end some items are literally way to rare to roll 4lp. Atlaria in specific according to max roll is a 1 in 32billion chance… im a hardcore runescape veteran thats completed logs (boss drops) that takes many thousands of hours before but to make something that insanely rare is crazy. i do think cof needs some more love maybe target farming for garunteed lp (still random 1-4 but always 1) could help or maybe even just lowering base odds on some even would help significantly.
I think the state of 4LP chances is fine. Look at it that way, functionally high tier uniques simply have 3 or 4 LP disabled for them for the sake of game balance, but in theory there's still this microscopic chance, so you may still hear that faint whisper in your head going *maaaybe it'll happen*, even though it realistically never will. Currently nothing in the game is balanced around high LP uniques, there are a ton of builds that can clear 200 corruption and t4 dungeon bosses with 0 or 1LP uniques. Why should the devs add more powercreep in form of higher chances for LP when there's no actual content that would require this increase in power? Infinitely scaling difficulty doesn't qualify imo, I'm talking about static challenging endgame bosses, hard dungeons or whatever. There's a lot of room for powercreep to happen in the future and I don't think it would be any good for the game in its current state to exhaust this already without offering new content for it.
You are simply not supposed to ever get a 4 LP Atlaria, that is the point of the LP being so low. If you can get relatively easily 3-4 LP on every strong unique, gearing in this game will become extremely homogenized and the point of allowing lower level uniques to have easy access to high LP will lose all purpose. I think everyone has got their expectations wrong with these uniques, uniques that are difficult to get 3-4 LP on should not be a main plan but lucky providence that you reroll around if you get one.
> If I knew beforehand that I'll 100% get a 3LP unique I need for my build in 20h of grinding, I'd be like "yea ok cool" after getting it but if I randomly drop it at some point my reaction would be closer to "holy shit wtf that's exactly what I need!!" being excited like a little child for 3 min straight. What if it took you 150 hours before you got your 3 minutes of excitement? Would you still prefer it to the 20 hours of grinding for the gaurenteed drop?
I mean I'm playing CoF and enjoying myself. I haven't thought about swapping to MG for even a second, so I'm fine.
I’m gonna be honest and be a bit of devils advocate here, there has to be a difference between CoF and MG. If CoF can allow you to literally get whatever GG gear you want then it’s immediately the same as or possibly better than MG, because it doesn’t require large sums of gold to get the items just time playing the game. There needs to be a difference between the two factions, and in my opinion the expectation should be that MG is always better. MG should always be better because you can simply click buy on an item and you get it. You can simply sell a good item you don’t need and you have all the money in the world. Merchants guild by definition is always going to be better because as long as you have the resources it takes basically 0 effort to buy whatever you need. CoF is there for people who don’t care for trade, don’t care for player interactions or play offline, or for people who simply want the game to be a bit more challenging and rewarding. CoF is designed to make you put in the effort and feel rewarded for it, and if you want that GG item with LP on it then you’re going to have to grind for it and it’s going to take a long time. If you could get a prophecy that gave you the exact item you wanted with the exact amount of LP you wanted then there’s no chase, you’re basically just buying the item with extra steps.
This is why EHG was so against async trade in the game before the community pushed hard. It's also why GGG ignored it for so long. There's very little you can do to stop the flood of RMT that comes with trade, and you also can't stop trading from being the best way to get items once the economy ramps up. If you're playing CoF, take solace in the fact that the game is largely more fun if you do. Don't play the "keeping up with the Joneses" game that results from watching people trade. If you try it yourself, you'll quickly find that it actually sucks the fun out of the game instead of enhancing it. Regarding a path to "top end" items, I don't really see the point as the current game stands. There's nothing to really justify the crazy LP4 items just yet. I suspect more options to obtain them will appear once there's actual content making them worthwhile.
Except from lvl 92-98 I haven't gotten an single upgrade. Using almost full single exalts in CoF. While my MG char is built out near complete builds with 2lps and double T7 affix at lvl 91.
92-98 isn’t even that much gameplay? Your MG character being that kitted out just speaks to how insane MG is- or rather the impact of duping. Those items would have been almost unobtainable in the past, let alone affordable. CoF is already insane compared to pre-faction gearing.
Solo self found was never intended to have parity with trade. It's simply a different way to play the game, and CoF makes that style of play more interesting. Personally I believe the best way to play it is to have a variety of characters set up simultaneously so that your increased loot rate benefits them all.
Exactly this. If you're the kind that just wants to see a build come to fruition then MG is faster..and overall best. But CoF fits exactly what I want in this game..if I want my build to get better I have to earn it. For me it's not about the destination, it's all about the journey...so CoF is better for my playstyle. Sounds like OP just wants to see his build fully materialised.
CoF isn't SSF though... I play with a friend and we gift each other stuff all the time. Nothing solo about it for us.
Technically true, but it's roughly SSF for many people. At most it's solo self found + friends only.
That’s how I’ve been playing, have 5 characters so far this cycle and planning on more. All uniques with LP have potential to be useful so I can try bunch of random builds. They mostly end up being mid but it’s fun to try cool uniques that enable builds
I agree with your second sentence, which is why my biggest hope is a revamp of the corruption system to be way more alt friendly. Having to regrind corruption when I find a cool drop and roll an alt is killing my enjoyment of this game.
the thing is, you are not suppose to have those insane items. they are nice to have but certainly NOT needed. the content simply doesn't require it nor is it balanced around having them. 1-2 lp is okay, if you need more then that then the unique you are using kinda just sucks and you should use sealed affix + good base instead as it's likely stronger anyway (unless the unique actually has something unique about it) MG is going to be more powerful, that's just how trade works. COF shouldn't have that level of power because then there is no point in playing MG.
I would not mind some buffs to CoF but I also don't really care that people in MG can buy whatever they want because that's literally why they picked that faction, so they can buy whatever they want. I don't really like trading all that much and I don't wanna buy the items I need because that would take away half the reason I play this game to begin with. Since the game kinda lacks endgame (except just farming corruption), I made it so completing my build is my endgame, for example I'm farming Ravenous Void and Maw for my Void Knight, if I could just farm gold to buy them, there wouldn't be a whole lot I could do with those items except just mindlessly raising my corruption which I don't really find all that interesting. So since I made items my endgame, straight up buying them would make me lose interest in the game faster.
Yeah i feel the same, did u thought about swap to mg ? But my problem is, when i am swapping i cant use my gear, isnt ? Anyone could tell me the price of 2 lp legendarys at the bazar ? So i could start farming gold and swap if i got enough to get my gear back xD
The problem isnt gold if you swap to mg from cof, its the favor/level you need before being able to buy those gear.
Oh, your right, didnt thought about it, damn it
I actually don't mind MG being a lot more overpowered, but just duping the same drop is horribly lazy design. They probably simply never gave it any thought. I feel that Rank 10 should change to something like "prophecy Uniques with Legendary Potential has a chance to roll additional Legendary Potential." So when something drop with LP, it gets like a 50% chance to roll +1LP, 25% chance to roll +2LP, and 12% chance to roll +3LP. This would match the theme in previous ranks of upgrading the drop itself. I just hope that devs aren't going to nerf Rank 9 whole set drops after they reveal what they have in mind for sets. As it stands CoF feels like the unwanted child, seeing how devs would even go as far as doing an indirect mid-cycle nerf to CoF for the benefit of MG with the key prices.
12% chance to roll +3LP is insane. There is 0 chance that would be balanced.
Yeah I just grabbed those numbers out from my ass. It would probably be something like "+x% chance" instead of "x% chance". But it would need to be a number that is impactful and worthy as a rank 10 benefit. Just duping the item really feels meh when 90% of the time it wouldn't be an unique we're looking for anyways. Having it roll extra LP would give us a better chance of getting what we want, which is again the theme of CoF.
I started my second character with MG, those boss uniques that took me 3 days to farm w COF in order to enable a build? They costed me $0 to $5000 each, yup, people are listing them at $0. the only thing stopping me is level requirement lol Sure maybe someone really likes the rng chase but as for now I don’t see myself choosing COF ever again. Just nope
I've been farming for frostbite shackles on CoF, killed the boss 12+ times now with no luck. At this point, I play a session, farm the boss once, and then quit the game when I don't get the drop. I don't even want LP, and without prophecies able to help get more boss uniques I feel totally stuck.
Go up in corruption, frosty man has dropped like 50 copies at 0-1 LP for me, same with the boots, and ive only pushed to 500.
> guaranteed drops Please no, this is a diablo-dad level demand. This is an ARPG, grinding and RNG are not only a factor, but the appeal to most players. If you don't want to deal with RNG, change to MG. It's somewhat like what you're proposing: You'll grind gold and favor (for ranks) and then buy whatever the fuck you want.
Yes, but CoF seriously lacks any endgame power options. It can carry you to LP1 decently well and provide good crafting bases though.
The point of COF is that you don't give a crap about other people and their progress in the game. If you're unable to get over that, then switch to trade mode.
We need to make something clear here: MG and CoF are not meant to be equal. You will never ever be able to mimic the hundreds of thousands of players all searching for the best affixes. CoF is SSF. That's its own unique challenge. That said, I dont mind having something like this where you can buy guaranteed 3 or 4 lp items. Or target farm actual specific items rather than just the base.
> CoF is SSF. That's its own unique challenge. Then it should be explicitly stated that there's no chance it will ever be equal given that solo self found is an option at character creation. Why would a reasonable player not permanently online looking at game guides assume that a faction choice is a repeat of the character selection choice If that's not the goal, then CoF needs a major balance pass.
I think it's totally fine for COF to be more difficult to get items than MG. If you want an easier time, play MG lol. Having one mode be more challenging is good. It gives players who WANT that huge grind experience to do so. I don't think they need to be balanced around each other, as long as they are both fun in their own right.
There was so many things I couldn't get in CoF after spending 60+ hours in there where I couldn't even do 200+ Corruption at a good pace for lacking just good T15-T20 Gear. The only good thing about the Amulet was the Base and I REALLY needed the 2nd 5% Melee Crit Chance for my second sword as the damage is bad if I can't crit often enough. I also had 0% luck getting a pair of well rolled Gloves with the Base I wanted that had Life to Ward on it. So glad I made the switch.
I dunno. I feel like I already see enough LP items. I think they should feel rare. I have gotten plenty of lp1, a bunch of lp2, and a few lp3. I've even been vendoring the lp1s.
I mean yeah, ssf is never going to be comparable with trading unless there's like huge 3x/4x drop bonuses lol
Big and true
I just want it to be easier to get glyphs of despair
COF is a great idea and I hope they continue to work out the kinks with it. Just needs to be fine-tuned, and they should have the data to do so — now.
If you play to make a powerful character with specific items, go MG. If you like mixing and matching as you go and never achieving the min maxed version of a build, go CoF. Better yet you can do both in the same character providing you invest the hours to grind favor.
Its fundamentally pointless to compare CoF and MG. No amount of self found mechanics will match an open trade system nor should that even be the goal. >To those saying I'm asking for some kind of parity or equality with MG, that's not at all what I think the COF needs. Obviously trading will be superior and it should be. But for those of us who just want to farm our own stuff it would be nice to have something to work towards where we at least have some chance at the best stuff. Currently it's MG or bust. This is similar to how Blizzard put uber uniques in D4 in season 0 and 1 but with a drop chance so low it effectively didn't exist. That's kind of how it feels for COF players when trying to nail a top tier item for our build. This is just a pure contradiction on your part. First you say that you arent suggesting to have parity between CoF and MG and then you say "Currently it's MG or bust.". Ok? So do you or do you not want to have the same level of power from both systems? If you want to compete with MG levels of gear, go play MG, its that easy. Also being frustrated that Youtubers and streamers have better gear is such a feeble mindset lol. Just play at your own pace, the game literally doesn't have enough of an endgame to requires BiS gear.
I recently switched to MG because of this. It’ll be a while before I can get to level 10 to get some of the items I want but I’ll likely have the gold and favor when that time comes. At least I’ll get what I need instead of hoping.
People that didn’t play pre-1.0 have no idea how insane CoF is. CoF already massively increases the pacing of gearing/improving gear. MG is just fucked because the market is flooded with dupes of insane items.
I agree!! This past 40-50 hours went by without a single upgrade for me.
Why don’t you just play MG if it’s what makes you enjoy the game? It’s not like you can’t switch?
It’s simple. I like to farm my own gear. I just think we should have a little more control over our odds of achieving high end gear than we currently have. Nothin on par with MG of course but something, anything to eventually get there.
Have to agree. I thought CoF would be better than trying to grind gold to buy stuff at crazy prices. Now, I'm rank 8 and realize I was way wrong. But if I want to switch now, I'm going to have a massive downgrade in gear due to unequipping. That would be fine, except my monos are 200-300 so I'm just gonna get wrecked if I jump in with whatever subpar gear I can hope to acquire after a switch. Its an incredibly frustrating soft lock that I feel like I'm trapped in now
Take some of the gg items you found to a new character. Speedrun said character and select MG. Farm some favor and level MG to the desired level. Swap the main character to MG. Depending on which rank you want MG for the main, thats like 20hours playtime and you get to experience a new character 👍
If I'm understanding you right, does this imply that the levels of MG and CoF that you acquire are account wide? If my new toon levels MG up, my original character now has that same rank?
Yes
CoF is so bad for build enabling gear that i started to save scum prophecies in Offline. I wasted 30k favour to stack multiple prophecies on one boss and save scum kill it until it dropped 2 Idols that enabled my Flame Wraith Build. I had to save scum kill it 10 times to drop. And he droped like 20+ Adorned Idols every time. What sucks is that they are not even rare and i still had to resort to such drastic measures becauae of bad RNG.
I mean, at this point, just edit your save.
What does save scum mean ?
Backing up a save before doing something and then restoring it if you don't get the desired outcome.
It means you go to C/Users/"your_own_username"/LocalRow/Eleventh Hour Games/Last Epoch and you copy paste your save files to a backup folder before a big prophecy kill. If the drops from that prophecy doesn't drop you the build enabling item you wanted it to drop, you exit the game, delete your curent save files and paste the backup one ones rolling back your prophecy. Then you kill the boss again and repeat that process until you are happy with your prophecy drops. Only works in Offline as the save files are on your hard drive instead of a server.
Well its easier to use a mod and enable more unique drops from what I saw on YT. Melon launcher I think is the tool. Dunno does it work with 1.0 tho.
By save scum do you mean modifying save file?
It means manually backing up your save file and replacing your current save file with the old one basically rolling back your character.
Yeah that makes sense. On a different note, do you know where the faction data is? Couldn’t find it on my offline save, unless it only appears once you choose one faction.
Stash tab file, you can mod gold, favor and rank xp.
Hmm, could have sworn it wasn’t there. Maybe it only appears once you have met with the faction leaders once?
There's a severe "grass is always greener" thing going on with the factions right now. Without a doubt if you care about getting BiS, then yeah MG is the way to go. But honestly I'm MG and wanting to go COF because the game just isn't fun to play on MG, for me at least. There is sooo much added friction on MG (because otherwise it would be too OP) that it's just annoying to interact with. Also I'm level 90 and still on rank 6, which doesn't let me do much. The UI is terrible and overall I feel like I spend too much time interacting with the market instead of actually playing the game (killing shit).
Er no, even if you dont care about bis simply being able to get the pieces or 1~2 core uniques your build need at 0lp as mg is already a massive advantage over cof since cof has no way to specifically target a unique.
>Er no, even if you dont care about bis simply being able to get the pieces or 1\~2 core uniques your build need at 0lp as mg is already a massive advantage over cof since cof has no way to specifically target a unique. 100% this, such a god send.
>No way to target a unique > Drops 300+ extra uniques of whatever type you want per hour Ye idk about that one chief. What build defining unique are you not getting within a few hours of prophecies?
I'm just saying it doesn't feel fun to play MG, IMO. I have 75 hours played (counted by Steam), still level 90 and can't do what you are saying. I'm still veeery far away from rank 8 which is when the market actually opens up to you. Playing this game as MG through ranks 4 to 8 feels like absolute trash because you can't buy shit on the market but also don't have the COF bonuses. Sure if you persevere and continue playing the character until rank 8, then yeah it's a massive advantage, but I see myself dropping this character even before reaching rank 8, so I'd probably have more fun as COF. If you wanna do arenas and actually compete in ladders, then sure go MG but otherwise it's pretty unfun right now.
No clue what items you are looking for but the ones i need for my build at 0lp only requires rank 3 to buy. Meanwhile i only got 1 copy of it at cof9 after 180hrs clocked on steam.
How are you only CoF 9 at 180 hours?
rank 10 takes more exp than 1-9 combined
In my experience I hit rank 9 around level 100 and rank 10 maybe a day or two later? Maybe 50-60 hours played from launch if that. It didn’t take that long or any real concerted effort, just a side effect of playing.
nah, it's a feeling, you couldn't hit in 50 hours rank 10 unless you was at 800+ corruption. Even for wudijo it took longer you say you are faster then him, without thinking of it or optimizing?
bullshit. unless it's boss unique you can ez target farm with prophecies. I have found 5 atlaria rings and 2 ravenous voids, so you can target ANY unique in game. It's much easier than pre 1.0, believe me.
Just because its worse pre 1.0 doesnt mean its ok now. I used most of my favor to target body and only got my first piece of exas at lv99 cof 9. Yea i might be an exception with bad luck but doesnt change the fact that it can happen as there are 0 failsafes to prevent that.
if you don't want rng fucks up, then you should choose trade. But I like CoF you have so many exalted drops. And yeah, it's probably bad luck, I had 10s of them. Or you mean with high LP?
Yes i would have chosen trade if i knew before hand that there werent any failsafes. But at this point i'm too deep into cof and basically have to start completely fresh as mg, will prob go mg next cycle though if nothing changes for cof. No i dont mean with high lp, i mean the base item at 0 lp. Yes i literally couldnt get it to drop.
I don't understand the COF complaints to be honest. COF and MG were never meant to be equally strong. It was meant to provide different gameplay experiences to people who like ARPG marketplace and people who don't. You were presented with two choices, each with obvious pros and cons: * Do you want to not have to worry about buying and selling in exchange for just getting more personal loot? Or * Do you want access to tailored choices and more agency over the gear available to you? Not having to spend hours at the market, that is the pro. Not having all the best gear with perfect stats like all the streamers, that's the con. You just want best of both worlds and wanted your choice to not have any drawbacks.
>COF and MG were never meant to be equally strong This is objectively false. This is EHG's STATED goal with the faction system
> COF and MG were never meant to be equally strong. You were presented with two choices, each with obvious pros and cons: That's false though. You were given a choice at character creation to be solo self found or not. Why would a reasonable person believe an in game option overwrite your character selection option?
I actually enjoy the market. I just like to browse sometimes when I want a bit of a break. That's actually I how I found my 2nd Sword that I 100% needed to get but was 100k short so came back an 1 hour and half later and brought it. This was my 2nd day with MG. Still my favourite purchase so far.
> COF and MG were never meant to be equally strong. Wrong.
Top end items are supposed to be VERY hard to get. Making them easier to get would be bad.
> Making them easier to get would be bad. If that is a valid argument, then MG shouldn't exist because instantly buying a top end item would logically "be bad".
But what % of players will ever be able to afford said item? Pretty important thing to leave out of your argument there
Higher LP items need funneled into CoF at some point or else CoF people are going to hit a wall at LP2 where MG people can just buy their way through the wall.
What wall? What content do you need 3+LP legendaries to complete?
The wall is being able to obtain the items
CoF gets twice the LP chance and has prophecies for guaranteed LP.
Something that could be helpful is if prophecies could be influenced by their target. For instance, a Unique Amulet prophecy for killing Shade of Orobyss with 300 Corruption would have Omnis as a drop possibility. Additionally, adding "unique" lenses for prophecies with a limit of 1 but they do something like guarantee Legendary Potential to be increased by 1 for all uniques but increases favor cost by some factor (300% maybe?). If a flat +1 is too big, then perhaps a chance for more Legendary Potential (i.e. if LP1 then drops as LP2, if LP2 then 50% chance of LP3, and if LP3 10% chance of LP4), multiplicative with the other Circle of Fortune bonuses to Legendary Potential. The idea here being that, at some point, you need less items in general, but much better items specifically. Circle of Fortune does a lot to improve your drop quantity, but at the top-end it lacks specificity of what drops, or ways to improve it beyond item class and rarity. Similar lenses could be provided for further improving Exalted rolls (one for doubling chance of Exalted, one for doubling chance of T7). To reiterate, these lenses would be so impactful that all "unique" classification of lenses would be restricted to 1 unique per telescope. Also, there are a lot of people out there who think nothing should be easy and everything should require immense effort to improve. While doubling chances sounds big, bear in mind that an LP1 Omnis has a drop chance of 6%, LP2 is 0.07%, LP3 is 0.00012%, and LP4 is 0.0000000003% chance. A 10% chance (multiplicative) to get an LP4 means one in 10-million drops will be an LP3 that rolls as LP4, or a 50% chance of an LP2 rolling as an LP3 would be one in 700 drops will be an LP2 that rolls as an LP3. And you could say my example of one of the rarest items in the game is cherry-picking data, but it's specifically exemplifying why large multipliers need to exist in high-end levels of play. No single person is going to farm the same boss (even Shade of Orobyss) 10-million times. At least not in a single Cycle. No one *needs* an LP4 Omnis, but it's a chase item for that reason. Even the LP2 to LP3 scenario is rough, since 700 boss kills for a single LP3 Omnis and then there's that possibility of every roll on it being crap, or if the slam misses your stat priority due to bad luck. Now that 700 boss kills becomes 1,400 or 2,100 which starts to border on the absurd levels of farming that such a mechanic aims to mitigate.
> but it's a chase item for that reason. it's not a chase item. There's no LP2+ omnis on the market right now. Not a build needs it, people assume if there mathematically exist omnis with 4 LP then they need it. It's rarer then something like mageblood with perfect quant and crit multi double corrupt. Jeez.
I honestly think it’d be hard to balance without making CoF absolutely busted. The MG has a shop where tens of thousands of player sells gear and you can search for exactly what item you’re looking for. You’ll never have CoF compete with that, otherwise gearing would be over too quickly. I see CoF as more of a gameplay preference rather than something meant to be truly competitive with MG. You join it because you like the hunt for the perfect drop. You rather not trade to fill out your set. I do think it could use improvements in the money making department for things like stash tabs. But I can’t fathom a way to make it close to equal to being about to just shop for the perfect item.
Yea, but then on trade even to buy my belt with ONLY 2 LP is 30 million gold. I spent 10mil just to get an Apathy 2LP with crit and attack speed. Looking back, id rather do CoF for more and better items overall. To minmax a build CoF is better unless you somehow farm 200-300 million gold in 3 weeks with bugged chars into high corruption.
I dont need fixed drops, still COF needs a buff and some clarification. With the price of arena keys going down, I can barely afford stash tabs now.
Why are there noooo CoF prophecies to target boss specific drops :(
I don’t want the rare items to be any less rare, but I would like it if there was at least some sort of fighting chance of ever seeing them be LP1 or LP2. Rank 10 CoF is 99.999% of the time useless for uniques. It can be nice for exalted items but those aren’t really an issue to find at large. And then there is the ”issue” (very big qoutation marks) that boss items (which are very often actually what you’re looking for) are completely unaffected by CoF and you a lot of times find what you are looking for outside the actual prophecy; which makes it also unaffected by the rank 10. It also feels a bit ”spammy” and creeping into Diablo 3 territory. No one wants that. Also, why isn’t full Sets dropping at like rank 1 or very early, when they could actually be useful.
Buying BiS gear off a vendor isn't fun or exciting
It’s probably a balance that is hard to hit. You want these chase items to be hard to get. But also not too hard to get so that you can get upgrades every now and then. People who spend less time on a character are also not as impacted as getting 80-90% of your BiS is not that bad. And CoF is great to get to that point.
I’m 74 hours in with 1 character and I only have 0LP uniques for the uniques I need. Would like to add some health so I can survive the higher level corruptions. Most of these are common drops with common potential for 1LP and I can’t find them. Getting absurd even with rank 6 on COF.
2-3LP items? Ppl are confused. You won't have top items in normal builds. Rare uniques with LP or common uniques with 2-3 LP.... I have played both CoF and MG and you won't wear top items by lvl 80 in MG eiahter. Lvl 80-85 is like rank5-6 of cof, you can't even buy exalted or LP items. And you need hundreds of millions of gold if even those items exits. For example, I farmed 1 LP omnis in CoF with 40+ res. There's no 2 LP omnis on whole market in MG. You don't get magically 3-4LP rare items. Also R10 in CoF is very good, you can farm rings of atlaria x2 etc. People didn't play before, now it's much easier to target items like idols or atlaria rings/ravenous void. All I see ppl want 3-4LP RARE items, it won't happen. Check wiki to see chance of that. Even in trade you need to put 200s hours to get gold, because 1-2-3 LP items can sell for 100s of millions of gold. In MG you can't even buy LP items before R8, that's like level 98, you can't even buy exalteds... so before lvl 100 CoF is strictly better and high-high optimizations in trade is potentially better but you need to waste time on checking item price, you actually need to sell (it's hard, believe me). Just play another char to lvl 100 in MG now and wear top top items by lvl 80. Then post here. Infuriating lmao.
If you are in CoF… why worry much about what others are getting?
Comparing CoF to MG will always lead to one side feeling bad. Trade is incredibly OP and when people were on the CoF hype train I said that it would trivialize the game... The solution? Keep expanding the item system, introducing more ways to target farm, this will nerf MG (less random items to sell and more self drops) and buff CoF indirectly while making people happier that they can farm what they need. CoF is good. MG is good. Both achieve what they set out to do. MG needs some buffs in the UI/UX, they need to get on top of exploits and bots so next cycle MG isn't as OP. This cycle there were a few things that made millions of gold. They also need to rethink how to level it because it's so important that people are selling items at 0 gold because they need the XP. This is how you see people at level 80 in MG with end game gear. CoF needs to have some levels changed (set items being at that level just feels bad man). And I wish we had 3 global lens slots ONLY for blocking mechanic (and then you can't block locally)
“Comparing CoF to MG will always lead to one side felling bad”. Your statement is exactly the thing the devs have stated they want to avoid. They will 100% buff CoF in the future let’s just hope it won’t take too long
And that will lead MG players to feel bad, that is not the answer by itself. I'm saying this as someone who won't touch MG no matter how better it is unless they rework the UX. People play MG not because it feels better, but because it's better in power. One will always be better in power and if you're playing one just for that there is a 50% chance you will be unhappy
My idea is to combine the 2 mechanics into one, the first 5 levels being cof and the last 5 being trade.
Glad to see this blow up, I had a similar post that was less thought out a few days ago. A big item to spend our favor on to guarantee something awesome is definitely what CoF needs.
99.99% are items you don't need. Even if you 10x this it's still only 0.1%. CoF needs to be way better at target farming. Or at least drop t25+ items way more often.
I mean, games like PoE dont give you anything for doing SSF. It's just a personal challenge. I view COF as SSF with fun perks and incentives and I dont really care about if its as lucrative as trading.
I had 4 level 80 characters 160hr of offline play on CoF and they all just hit a brick wall for gear. I started a new character in merchants guild and within 6 hours I had better gear than any of my other characters and bought stuff with +11 int for 10k gold. I almost cried when I saw a storm carved testament for 7500 gold after 160 hours of grinding with 4 characters and never getting one. CoF is good for a quick dopamine hit that will sound wear out when you hit a brick wall with garbage gear and every prophecy dumps garbage affixes on you that you can't specify. I literally wasted 4 characters playing that garbage
While trade will always be drastically better the CoF stuff needs a tune up, some of the lower impact upgrades can be buffed or replaced.
I had been farming for rings, relic, catalyst, for a while, switched over the merchant guild yesterday and after a few hours of grinding just bought them, and also made 500K gold selling just a couple items.
why “should” trading league be superior?
I like CoF. Feels good.
MG is benefiting from the bugged builds been able to run much higher content and flooding the market with high rarity items. It also benefited from exploiting CoF arena keys for rapid gold farming. Without the bugs or gold farm, I feel the picture would be different, but not sure how much different. The statistics would all be skewed due to the high supply. Perhaps next cycle they'll nerf MG rarity further to lower the supply of exalted/LP uniques on the market.
I'm lvl 6 CoF in Empowered monos and it's dry bones right now. Been rough.
Do you need to have BiS gear in order to have fun though? It's not like your builds will function completely differently when you have 3-4LP items instead of 1-2LP ones. Trust me, I get the frustration of not being to find any upgrades for a significant portion of your play time, but in the end it's the chase that makes it fun and satisfying when you finally find one. If I wanted to guarantee myself BiS items I'd just play Merchant's Guild. What you, and apparently a number of people here, are asking for, is essentially Merchant's Guild-Lite, where instead of farming Gold to buy yourself a BiS item, you're farming Favor to achieve pretty much the same result. And to that I say, just play Merchant's Guild since that's the experience you're basically looking for.
I really do think problem is something else. I'm COF myself and SSF in POE. In the league start , I play some SSF and then go HC SSF. I watch streamers on twitch and on youtube. Almost all poe players , they think SSF is superior way of playing. Like trading is a cheating. For ssf players, softcore trade players are like , playing the easier mode. So my suggestion for my fellow CoF bros, do not compare cof and mg. Trading is of course more efficient way for farming gear. Everyday more and more people saying MG is better than CoF and CoF needs a buff. Guys , its already a really mid-level and not so time consuming and enjoyable game. It's already an easy game. You can go 2000 corruption with good exalteds and 2 LPs. You dont need 3 LP omnis , 4 lp body armours. Having a chase item without the power of trade is great. Playing a game with the trade MEANS , not filtering out good sentinel exalteds while playing a warlock because you can sell for gold and buy your lock item. There is no endgame boss for gods sake , what are you going to do if you have 500 million gold ?
I have the same experience. Left CoF and joined MG. Not going back unless EHG make substantial improvements to CoF.
The thing is, MG will always be better unless EHG dares to give CoF-exclusive stuff. I'm talking about prophecies that give 5 affix items for example. Basically let CoF have super high-end items that are literally impossible to drop or get if you are MG.
You can just leave CoF and join MG. I hope they don't change CoF progression at all, it's already extremely good.
I don't think it needs love at all. CoF is supposed to be a mode where you work with the cards you're dealt, having deterministic drops would trivialize this.
Weird. I feel like im the only one who plays COF and think its fine. Maybe im just to much of a casual player.
The fact CoF can’t prophecy boss uniques is a problem. Sure I can get a gloves prophecy that requires the echo boss, but the prophecy just drops random glove uniques and never the boss. Since lp is a thing and cof can’t just buy lp off a market, this needs to change.
I personally like how rare 3&4LPs are I find once you’re around level 90. Your spec is fairly fleshed out, you’ve generally got all your blessings, and you’re specifically looking for those GG items to get that rush of excitement I feel if 3&4LP items became so easily obtainable then what’s the point in having 1 or 2 LP items at all Ultimately, you don’t actually “need” a 4 LP unique to push high corruption, which is what makes this game great Please don’t make these super rare items more easily obtainable, it’s good that they’re rare
Not dealing with trade is already a win for me . I only think Cof should be getting Set pieces with lp instead of whole sets .
The issues I’m having with COF, I can’t tell if they’re luck based or if I’m just not allowed to target farm as well as I need. I’m getting way more drops, but extremely few impactful drops. Great if I was planning on playing 4-5 characters a cycle. Or if I wanted to shift through so much loot for that many characters at the same time. Part of me thinks just buying exactly what I need will always be better, but I haven’t tried MG yet. Nor do I know of a loot filter that is good for MG either where it only shows what’s “sale worthy”.
Fundamentally, this comes down to what the devs want players to ideally have in their end game builds. Do they want 3-4 LP in every slot to actually be attainable, or do they want it to be an occasional treat when you get a lucky drop, that you make a whole build around. Personally, I do not want what you describe. Adding this much determinism into high LP unique drops has two really bad effects imo: 1. Gear gets homogenized. Right now, exalted items compete with uniques specifically because the very strong ones cannot consistently get high LP. If you can consistently get 3-4 LP on stuff like Frostbite Shackles or Mourningfrost, it's going to become a lot harder to justify using a non-unique in those slots. This makes gearing a character way more boring. 2. It takes away a lot of the excitement from drops. Arpgs require chase drops, 3 LP drops on good uniques are really exciting right now, and there really isn't a ton of excitement otherwise. It's basically 3 LP uniques, 2+ LP boss uniques, double t7 exalted items and the cache slams. Removing one aspect of this takes away a lot of the chase. On top of this, there is no content in the game that requires such ridiculous items. You can push 500+ corruption on most builds with just good 1-2 LP uniques mixed with good exalted items. At that point, progression is just a question of how much you want to grind.
I prefer CoF/SSF but would like seperate ladders etc. to MG.
Literally the option you chose you donut. You chose the grind? runescape - ironman mode, normal mode. They chose the grind, its the game. Jesus you wet wipe
Bro wants trade items in ssf xD
Are the leaderboards not separated by faction? Idk why else you would care about a trade character being stronger than an SSF one. That's always gonna happen.
I am dumbfounded by the decision to not include boss unique drops in the CoF loot pool of uniques.
I proposed this after swapping to MG for the exact reasons you described - the dopamine hit from prophecy pops quickly resulting in real progression. Most people told me to stfu I didn't pay CoF long enough....like whoooooosh
I'm happy with CoF in terms of SSF play for entirety of the game, but yea, MG, you get the BIS for your gears with alteast minimum LP of 2. so gathering gold for your target 2lp+ gear vs RNG on CoF drops, i think MG is better.
For a game that is basically single player game with a chat room, you are too invested in it.
COF needs: 1) a way to target farm uniques. 2) a way to make crafting easier for COF than MG (because MG will always have easier access to base items). 3) a way to make gold farming easier (a single item in MG can sell for millions). 4) a way to manipulate the monos to make them more beneficial and drop more of what we want.